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Hicks
09-29-2006, 07:00 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

Only days away

Posted by Mike Wells


The start of training camp is less than a week away and I get the sense from talking to people in the organization that theyíve got a good feeling about this group of players.

Iím going to need a roster sheet so I know who is who at Mondayís media day at Conseco Fieldhouse because of so many new faces. I realized that when I decided to pop out to the Brickyard for the organizationís Foundation Golf Outing on Tuesday.

Here are some tidbits Iíve heard over the past week or so:

--Most of the players have been working out at Conseco on a regular basis. I havenít seen any of the workouts because theyíre closed to the media. One person told me this has been one of the best offseasons for the players in recent years. Coach Rick Carlisle went down to Atlanta to see Jamaal Tinsley a couple of weeks ago. Tinsley, who spent most of the summer in Atlanta, is supposedly in great shape and has been working with a trainer. Iím sure many of you will reserve judgment on Tinsley, who has battled numerous injuries the past three seasons, until the season starts. Sarunas Jasikevicius reportedly worked out with his former European team Maccabi Tel Aviv during summer.

--Forward Jermaine OíNeal had a sensational summer. Whatís impressed many is that he spent most of the summer in Indy and he worked on his whole body rather than just his upper half with the teamís strength and conditioning coach Shawn Windle. Thereís a feeling OíNeal will be back to the form that allowed him to finish in the top three of the MVP voting several years ago.

--The final two roster spots are wide open. John Edwards, Snap Hunter, Josh Powell, Rawle Marshall and Orien Greene will be battling it out for those two spots. The Pacers have to decide what they want to do with Powell because his contract becomes guaranteed early next week.

--The starting frontcourt is far from set. Thereís been a lot of talk of Jermaine OíNeal, Danny Granger and Al Harrington being the starting frontcourt. Carlisle has several options he can use. Jeff Foster or David Harrison can start at center with OíNeal and Harrington playing the forward spots. The opposing center can also dictate who starts.

--This group of players have already started developing a strong bond. The addition of Darrell Armstrong and the maturity of Jermaine OíNeal and Al Harrington have played a part in that. Last yearís team had issues over playing time playing time (Anthony Johnson and Sarunas Jasikevicius) and contract questions (Fred Jones) before training camp even started.

Hicks
09-29-2006, 07:01 AM
The opposing center can also dictate who starts.

Does this yell "weakness" to anyone else but me? God forbid we enforce our will and style down the opponent's throat.

Harddrive7
09-29-2006, 07:17 AM
I wish that they would have said more about Harrison. Although I don't know if I would say that he's ready to start.

All in all pretty encouraging article. Good to hear Tins has had yet another "great" offseason. I hope that he had surgery on his sinuses.

sportsmusicxboxpacer
09-29-2006, 09:11 AM
i wait till camps starts to know alot more

Isaac
09-29-2006, 10:07 AM
Does this yell "weakness" to anyone else but me? God forbid we enforce our will and style down the opponent's throat.

I don't think so. I like the fact that we're versatile enough to play the matchup game and not lose a step.

Unclebuck
09-29-2006, 10:25 AM
Does this yell "weakness" to anyone else but me? God forbid we enforce our will and style down the opponent's throat.

I think the only thing that might cause the Pacers to start a bigger center is when we play Shaq, Yao, or Z. Just like last year Rick started Scot in those games, I could see the same thing happening this season. Although, we don't have Pollard, so I'm not sure who would start.

ChicagoJ
09-29-2006, 10:43 AM
Does this yell "weakness" to anyone else but me? God forbid we enforce our will and style down the opponent's throat.

I think that's a valid point when your starting frontcourt is Danny-JO-David.

But if JO is your best center and your best powerforward, and you've got a very capable second PF (Harrington) and a very capable second C (Harrison), then deciding where to put JO at the start of each game is a strength and not a weakness.

However, I'm not too excited about either a Al-JO-Jeff or Al-JO-David frontcourt, because I'm not excited about Al getting major minutes at SF.

If you're going to start Jeff or David, then Danny-JO-Jeff or Danny-JO-David is a better alternative. Whether or not Al is okay with that is another discussion (I have no clue, but I'd like to think Al's "I need to start" days are behind him.)

pizza guy
09-29-2006, 10:50 AM
--This group of players have already started developing a strong bond. The addition of Darrell Armstrong and the maturity of Jermaine O’Neal and Al Harrington have played a part in that. Last year’s team had issues over playing time playing time (Anthony Johnson and Sarunas Jasikevicius) and contract questions (Fred Jones) before training camp even started.


:jawdrop:

That, especially the bolded section, put a big grin on my face. "A strong bond" means good chemistry. A mature JO (and the rumored mature SJax) means a much better basketball team.

Call me a sunshiner, but I'm starting to buy this stuff and get really excited for the season.

Kegboy
09-29-2006, 11:36 AM
Sarunas Jasikevicius reportedly worked out with his former European team Maccabi Tel Aviv during summer.

Not to be a hater (;) ), but, seriously, couldn't he have found a more productive use of his time, even over in Europe? If he were a rookie out of college who had difficulties adjusting to the pro game, the last thing I'd want him to do is go work out at his old school all summer.

grace
09-29-2006, 12:39 PM
Not to be a hater (;) ), but, seriously, couldn't he have found a more productive use of his time, even over in Europe? If he were a rookie out of college who had difficulties adjusting to the pro game, the last thing I'd want him to do is go work out at his old school all summer.

I don't know who he was supposed to work out with considering everyone was getting ready for the WBC.

imawhat
09-29-2006, 12:48 PM
I don't blame him. He probably has a home there and summer is the only time of the year that he can be close to it.

It'd be nice if everyone were working out together in Indy all summer long, but I'd rather them come into camp refreshed than be mentally exhausted from being away from home. And after Saras' year last year, he needed to get away as much or more than he needed to stay.

Bball
09-29-2006, 12:56 PM
Does this yell "weakness" to anyone else but me? God forbid we enforce our will and style down the opponent's throat.

Weren't those Mike Wells' words? I will just assume he is speculating, altho I won't be be surprised if he's proven correct. We'll see...

I very much believe in putting your best team on the court and staying consistent. Make the other team matchup to us.

-Bball

ABADays
09-29-2006, 01:01 PM
Not to be a hater (;) ), but, seriously, couldn't he have found a more productive use of his time, even over in Europe? If he were a rookie out of college who had difficulties adjusting to the pro game, the last thing I'd want him to do is go work out at his old school all summer.

Kegboy, have you seen is new bride? I'm sure the off-season was very productive. :D

Bball
09-29-2006, 01:04 PM
I'm glad to see Jamaal taking things seriously and staying close to Indy and meeting with Coach Carlisle here...

....oh wait.... Carlisle had to go to Atlanta to meet him...

I'm not thrilled with Sarunas being overseas but I will cut him some slack since he is not from the USA in the first place AND he just got married. But that slack extends only as far as him showing his workouts were successful in preparing him for the NBA season.

I've read of Jamaal's remored successful workouts enough to call :BS: until I actually see it on the court. Just the fact he once again stayed apart from the team, when IMHO he should be FIGHTING for his starting spot (not having it handed to him) and doing all in his power to turn this ship around could be telling.

Of course I still believe Tinsley is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Seeing Carlisle had to go to him doesn't give me a good feeling that anything has changed.

-Bball

pizza guy
09-29-2006, 01:11 PM
I'd like to have seen Sarunas work out here, but as was mentioned, he's got a home over there, a new (very good looking) bride, and summer should be a little restful for these guys. I just hope he shows up this season physically ready to go for all 82 games.

As for Tinsley...didn't he have a great summer last year, in Atlanta, fully healthy and focused, with some great improvement in part of his game? Dude's got a lot to show still.

Jermaniac
09-29-2006, 01:20 PM
I'm glad to see Jamaal taking things seriously and staying close to Indy and meeting with Coach Carlisle here...

....oh wait.... Carlisle had to go to Atlanta to meet him...

I'm not thrilled with Sarunas being overseas but I will cut him some slack since he is not from the USA in the first place AND he just got married. But that slack extends only as far as him showing his workouts were successful in preparing him for the NBA season.

I've read of Jamaal's remored successful workouts enough to call :BS: until I actually see it on the court. Just the fact he once again stayed apart from the team, when IMHO he should be FIGHTING for his starting spot (not having it handed to him) and doing all in his power to turn this ship around could be telling.

Of course I still believe Tinsley is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Seeing Carlisle had to go to him doesn't give me a good feeling that anything has changed.

-Bball
:violin:

Naptown_Seth
09-29-2006, 01:23 PM
Well Tinsley did come out looking very good to start the season, so there is no reason to think that his summer didn't go well.

That hasn't been the problem. Heck, the BEST BALL he ever played was right after the brawl which was still early in the season.

And the worst ball he has ever played was at the end of last season when he came back from injury and played poorly enough to lose the starting PG spot back to AJ...and BTW, note that Rick did return him to a bench role after a few games of unacceptable results. It's not a free ride for JT in Indy, at least in terms of playing time and role...not much Rick can do about the contract.

MagicRat
09-29-2006, 01:23 PM
Of course I still believe Tinsley is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Seeing Carlisle had to go to him doesn't give me a good feeling that anything has changed.

-Bball

That's a real shocker......


I've read of Jamaal's remored successful workouts enough to call :BS: until I actually see it on the court.


His "rumored" workouts had him in great shape for the start of camp last year, too.........

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15459

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15447

Bball
09-29-2006, 01:31 PM
:violin:

I've got past history backing my stance. He's going to have to change and things will have to suddenly be different (and at least in regards to what was reported, nothing has changed as far as Tinsley working out with the team in summer). What have you got to believe that things will change? You've got 'hope'.

What's the old saying about hope in one hand and a pile of crap in the other?

-Bball

imawhat
09-29-2006, 01:38 PM
It's not a free ride for JT in Indy, at least in terms of playing time and role...not much Rick can do about the contract.

I'll second that. Just three years ago a less-paid (maybe I'm wrong?) Kenny Anderson was named starter, and Jamaal had to re-earn his starting spot with good play. As Rick has said, only JO's starting spot is secure. I know 'starting' doesn't necessarily dictate playing time or role, but it might be a good indicator for someone like Tinsley.

As far as Tinsley's conditioning goes, I also agree that he looked great at the beginning of last year. Imo, he's looked better at the beginning of every season than he looked the previous year. And he has dedicated himself in the offseason to be in shape (even going as far as changing his diet). It's hard to question that.

I would argue that most of Tinsley's significant injuries are 'playing' injuries. A really bad foot sprain would've kept Carl Lewis from running for a long period of time, especially after being mis-diagnosed and giving him the 'ok' to run on it way before it was truly healed. But nobody would question his conditioning.

Tinsley's had bad luck, and he's injury prone. The way he plays doesn't help, either.

imawhat
09-29-2006, 01:39 PM
His "rumored" workouts had him in great shape for the start of camp last year, too.........

Did you see him? He was in great shape.

MagicRat
09-29-2006, 01:47 PM
Did you see him? He was in great shape.

Yeah, that's why I posted the threads from last year's FanJam, with pictures and everyone raving about how good he looked.

I hoped to show that his workouts weren't merely "rumored" last year, and I doubt they are just "rumored" this year.........

imawhat
09-29-2006, 01:57 PM
Yeah, that's why I posted the threads from last year's FanJam, with pictures and everyone raving about how good he looked.

I hoped to show that his workouts weren't merely "rumored" last year, and I doubt they are just "rumored" this year.........


Gotcha. I still can't believe how 'trim' he was (neither could Donnie, Rick, or Kevin):

http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B%3B3%3B923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E234%3C%3D%3A54%3 D836%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B5%3B94%3B9%3A5ot1lsi

Eindar
09-29-2006, 02:21 PM
Gotcha. I still can't believe how 'trim' he was (neither could Donnie, Rick, or Kevin):

http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B%3B3%3B923232%7Ffp63%3Dot%3E234%3C%3D%3A54%3 D836%3DXROQDF%3E2323%3B5%3B94%3B9%3A5ot1lsi

I think that's always been the deal with Jamaal, though. With the exception of his first, and maybe his second offseason, he's always come into camp in good if not great shape, and his shot is falling also. The problem is when he gets injured, doesn't put in the work to rehab it properly, doesn't continue to keep his shooting sharp, and so when he comes back late by normal standards, but still too early, he's put on 20 lbs, couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and often re-injures himself because of the lack of conditioning.

I think it's far more important to see how he responds when and if he gets injured this year than to look at how he comes into camp.

Bball
09-29-2006, 02:38 PM
Yeah, that's why I posted the threads from last year's FanJam, with pictures and everyone raving about how good he looked.

I hoped to show that his workouts weren't merely "rumored" last year, and I doubt they are just "rumored" this year.........

I thought it was to show that it was more of the "same ol, same ol" and meant nothing once the season started and the injuries, illness, pouting, and fake injuries/illness started accumulating... again.

-Bball

naptown
09-29-2006, 02:43 PM
Thank goodness!! Only another 5 weeks of speculation, dramatization, consternation, tribulation, reparation, condemnation, damnation...... and last but not least deprivation!!

rexnom
09-29-2006, 03:44 PM
I think that's always been the deal with Jamaal, though. With the exception of his first, and maybe his second offseason, he's always come into camp in good if not great shape, and his shot is falling also. The problem is when he gets injured, doesn't put in the work to rehab it properly, doesn't continue to keep his shooting sharp, and so when he comes back late by normal standards, but still too early, he's put on 20 lbs, couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and often re-injures himself because of the lack of conditioning.

I think it's far more important to see how he responds when and if he gets injured this year than to look at how he comes into camp.
The key remains for Jamaal Tinsley to avoid serious injury. Obviously the man is not good at rehab.

MagicRat
09-29-2006, 04:05 PM
I thought it was to show that it was more of the "same ol, same ol" and meant nothing once the season started and the injuries, illness, pouting, and fake injuries/illness started accumulating... again.

-Bball

Same ol', same ol' Bball.................;)

JayRedd
09-29-2006, 04:16 PM
I'm glad to see Jamaal taking things seriously and staying close to Indy and meeting with Coach Carlisle here...

....oh wait.... Carlisle had to go to Atlanta to meet him...

I've read of Jamaal's remored successful workouts enough to call :BS: until I actually see it on the court. Just the fact he once again stayed apart from the team, when IMHO he should be FIGHTING for his starting spot (not having it handed to him) and doing all in his power to turn this ship around could be telling.

Of course I still believe Tinsley is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Seeing Carlisle had to go to him doesn't give me a good feeling that anything has changed.

-Bball

Why would Jamal hang out in Indianapolis when he lives in Atlanta?

DWade plays in Chicago in the offseason.

Paul Pierce goes to LA.

Most of these guys don't live where they play and don't play with their teamates in the summer. The dude can not be expected to hang out in Indiana all summer when his family is living in Georgia.

You're reaching.

imawhat
09-29-2006, 04:29 PM
I think that's always been the deal with Jamaal, though. With the exception of his first, and maybe his second offseason, he's always come into camp in good if not great shape, and his shot is falling also. The problem is when he gets injured, doesn't put in the work to rehab it properly, doesn't continue to keep his shooting sharp, and so when he comes back late by normal standards, but still too early, he's put on 20 lbs, couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and often re-injures himself because of the lack of conditioning.

I think it's far more important to see how he responds when and if he gets injured this year than to look at how he comes into camp.


You're correct. I just hope he can have good fortune for an extended period of time. It'd be nice.

CableKC
09-29-2006, 04:36 PM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

--The final two roster spots are wide open. John Edwards, Snap Hunter, Josh Powell, Rawle Marshall and Orien Greene will be battling it out for those two spots. The Pacers have to decide what they want to do with Powell because his contract becomes guaranteed early next week.

I think the choice is easy.....if Powell was worth it...or a better option then Edwards, Snap, Greene or Rawle...he would have been guaranteed already. I say...let him go....just to make things easy on TPTB to pick out the last 2 roster spots.

Will Galen
09-29-2006, 04:36 PM
Most of these guys don't live where they play and don't play with their teamates in the summer. The dude can not be expected to hang out in Indiana all summer when his family is living in Georgia.



I agree with the above. And why were a lot of people impressed that JO spent the summer in Indy working out when he lives in Indy?

I really don't care where they work out as long as they report to camp in shape. Reggie always reported to camp in shape and he worked out in L.A.

pantsfish
09-29-2006, 04:49 PM
The fact that Wells is saying this is encouragment enough for me. They're by no means a championship contender but I really think they're going to be a better team this year -- now that the people running the show are admitting last year's problems (and seemingly doing something about them), I'm really looking forward to the coming season and postseason.

CableKC
09-29-2006, 04:57 PM
The fact that Wells is saying this is encouragment enough for me. They're by no means a championship contender but I really think they're going to be a better team this year -- now that the people running the show are admitting last year's problems (and seemingly doing something about them), I'm really looking forward to the coming season and postseason.

I'll believe that we maybe on the right track when Kravitz :kravitz: attends one of those training camps and reports that they at least look somewhat competant.

I'm too pessimistic to believe anything anymore......but I will admit that I am "cautiously" optimistic.

Kegboy
09-29-2006, 07:22 PM
Kegboy, have you seen is new bride? I'm sure the off-season was very productive. :D

Well yeah, I would certainly hope he's improved his conditioning and endurance. :rimshot:

Maybe that's how Jamaal always comes into camp in great shape. Must be some fine women down in ATL.