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View Full Version : Will New Offensive System Suit O'Neal? {Pacers.com 9.19.06}



Frank Slade
09-19-2006, 01:15 PM
Will New Offensive System Suit O’Neal ?
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/oneal_330_jam.jpg
Jermaine O'Neal should benefit from an offensive system that should
feature his athleticism.

Tuesday, Sept. 19, 2006

QUESTION
OF THE DAY
Conrad Brunner

Q. How do you think Jermaine O'Neal will fit in this new "free-flowing" offense? With this kind of offense, possession will not necessarily go through him, will it? (From Steve in Colorado Springs, Colo.)


A. Of the many things that will change about how the Pacers approach their offense, the importance of O'Neal in making it work probably will not. He remains the team's most potent and consistent offensive threat and to steer opportunities away from him by implementing a system that does not suit his talents would be, to put it kindly, counterproductive. Even with the increased emphasis on transition baskets, there still is an acute need for more efficient halfcourt execution. He'll will be prominent in both areas.

O'Neal is far more athletic than most power forwards and actually is one of the fastest players on the roster. Though he bulked up the past few years to become more of a banger in the low post, the experiment didn't produce the desired results. For one, the wear and tear from playing that style proved hazardous to his health. For another, planting him in the post made him a stationary target for defenders.

The new system should take more advantage of his finesse skills, which are abundant, by keeping him on the move. His offseason training regimen has been tailored in this direction, enhancing his flexibility and aerobic endurance rather than focusing on building upper-body strength.

After spending the past two years in which the Pacers have asked him to play more like his namesake in Miami, O'Neal should look much more like himself in 2006-07

Pacers.com (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question_060919.html)

Bball
09-19-2006, 01:22 PM
The new system should take more advantage of his finesse skills, which are abundant, by keeping him on the move. His offseason training regimen has been tailored in this direction, enhancing his flexibility and aerobic endurance rather than focusing on building upper-body strength.

After spending the past two years in which the Pacers have asked him to play more like his namesake in Miami, O'Neal should look much more like himself in 2006-07

This needed highlighted. Let's hope they follow up on this with actual action and implementation.

-Bball

imawhat
09-19-2006, 01:47 PM
If they follow through and he's injury free, I think O'Neal will have a great season. Quickness/athleticism is definitely Jermaine's strength, and when combined with quick decisions he's tough to stop.

Los Angeles
09-19-2006, 06:27 PM
What new offense?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Bball
09-19-2006, 09:30 PM
What new offense?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Actually just seeing it won't be enough... I want to make sure the coach and player(s) don't abandon it at the first sign of trouble.

-Bball

Miller4ever
09-19-2006, 10:27 PM
O'Neal is far more athletic than most power forwards and actually is one of the fastest players on the roster.

i dont know if thats good or not

BlueNGold
09-19-2006, 10:27 PM
What new offense?

I'll believe it when I see it.

I see more of a new defense. We have added long, lean athletic players who all appear to defend well. Quis, White, Greene, Williams, Baston, etc. We should be solid on D.

As for a new offense, I think it is a wild experiment with no precedent. If anyone thinks this team as presently constructed can translate into a Dallas or Phoenix level running game, they will be sorely disappointed. Dallas and Phoenix are both loaded with outstanding perimeter shooters, and are much stronger at the PG position. A running team that cannot hit a bucket and make an assist will turn into a slow it down and throw it into JO team.

Jose Slaughter
09-19-2006, 11:06 PM
Blue N Gold

Of those 5 you mentioned on D, only 1 will be a staple in the rotation (Daniels). White, being a rookie & 3rd on the depth chart might get some minutes here & there but not enough to make an impact.

Williams & Baston will make the team, Greene should as well, but none will play more than garbage minutes.

Naptown_Seth
09-20-2006, 12:32 AM
I just viewed JO's DVD episode of the Better Basketball series (post play) in which he basically confirmed what I have always said, JO likes the high post and likes to face up. He is not a back to the basket banger, and even when he is facing away his favorite move is to work into a SPIN, not just a back down.

He likes to turn and see the defender, look for the double and play off of that. His assists hit a career high last season which helps reinforce that point.

People talk about this pounding basketball, but sincerely I challege anyone to find more than 10-15% of JO's touches where he holds the ball for more than 2 seconds. It doesn't happen. He either goes into his shot move or passes the ball.

It was Jack on the wing or post, Ron at times, Fred on the wing and AC on the wing that ran down the shot clock looking to get an opening off of a jab step or ball fake. That was typically how good plays would die, they would get ahead of the defense on ball movement and then someone like Jack would stop and size up the situation, letting the defense catch their rotations back up. This effectively wasted the productivity gained during the initial play.

They weren't comfortable going right into the dribble off of a catch. Even Peja did it when it wasn't a catch and shoot play, though admittedly he wasted less time looking for an out which was mostly due to his ability to just step back and drop one from deep.

JO works the system, he understands the purpose of drawing the double and finding his space. The problem has been away from the post where the ball movement has been dreadful. When he drew a double and passed out of it they rarely were able to do anything productive from it.

I've harped over and over on this issue. Two years ago with Reggie still on the team the non-JO offense was this - pass the ball around the perimeter, maybe probe 2-3 steps inside the arc with a dribble before passing back out, take a jumper.

The proof is in the numbers as their 3pt attempts went higher than ever, running above 20 per night during the periods when JO was out, often getting into the 25-27 range. Some fans called this "quality ball" which are probably the same fans that think the NCAA "pass around the arc" play is good ball. It's not. It doesn't pressure the defense.

Even in a zone a good post player should be hitting the gaps on the first rotation and the ball should be going in right then, and in man to man it is inexcusable for guys off the ball not moving into gaps and pressuring the defense. When you stand around away from the ball, that's just lazy and is "low tempo".

It's not about moving slowly or playing half court. It's about guys unwilling or not smart enough to needle at the defense when their number hasn't been called. Sure you don't run into a guys scoring lane, but you still can keep your defender honest. If he starts peeking away then freaking move and move hard.

Getting out on transition is the most obvious version of pressuring the defense, but you have to do it in the half court too if you truly plan on being an "up tempo" team. None of that contradicts having a guy in the post, and in fact a post guy or 2 HELPS the situation, it helps create lanes and pressure points for the team to work off of.

Don't take my word for it, just watch some 80's ball with guys like Parrish, Jabbar, Sampson and Malone on teams that were very capable of going over 100 every night.

Those teams had players that were willing to work away from the ball. I think Al and Daniels are 2 very quality upgrades in that regard. They will look for their points away from the ball. But Cabbages showed last year that with the ball he has strong offensive awareness but that without the ball he's a lot less comfortable. Hopefully that will improve this year. Granger is a big ?, but even if he's not there yet he will learn.

Jack is the guy I am most concerned about. His mental focus issues come to the forefront in this area. He's not good away from the play which is why he says he needs touches early on to get involved. I like his game overall for the price, but I don't like his mental game, especially away from the ball.

Naptown_Seth
09-20-2006, 12:41 AM
If anyone thinks this team as presently constructed can translate into a Dallas or Phoenix level running game, they will be sorely disappointed.
If anyone thinks they are trying to be those teams, they have terrible reading comprehension. It's been said OUTRIGHT, not between the lines, that they are NOT trying to be Phoenix. Running like freaks, sending a guy out before the rebound even, that's not uptempo, that's a running team. And its not what they are trying to do.

They are trying to be more ACTIVE on offense overall and to be more willing to push the ball into the front court in order to probe for an early in the clock advantage. But that still leaves the option to refuse an early shot if a good one can't be found. That's not the same as putting up every shot with 14 on the clock still.

imawhat
09-20-2006, 12:51 PM
People talk about this pounding basketball, but sincerely I challege anyone to find more than 10-15% of JO's touches where he holds the ball for more than 2 seconds. It doesn't happen. He either goes into his shot move or passes the ball.


He's definitely not a pounder, but he does the face up step-fake more than 15% of the time, doesn't he?


Great post. I have the same concerns as you, and I would add Tinsley to the list of offensive concerns. Not off the ball because he can be crafty without it, but he can get into a one-on-one game which adds to the issue of moving without the ball. I'd imagine mentally tough to move around when you know Tinsley isn't looking up.

BlueNGold
09-20-2006, 04:55 PM
Blue N Gold

Of those 5 you mentioned on D, only 1 will be a staple in the rotation (Daniels). White, being a rookie & 3rd on the depth chart might get some minutes here & there but not enough to make an impact.

Williams & Baston will make the team, Greene should as well, but none will play more than garbage minutes.

Based on the last two years, half of those guys could be starting. For goodness sakes, we had Samaki Walker and a bunch of other scrubs playing the last couple years. I would never assume that this team will stay healthy...not on its record.

I personally expect White and Daniels to play a lot regardless of what happens. Baston could turn out to be a real player and earn some minutes and could become a critical piece during stretches where JO is sitting on the sidelines in his suit....or when Jeff's hip acts up. We don't have Peja, Cro, Fred, Pollard and AJ anymore.

BlueNGold
09-20-2006, 05:14 PM
If anyone thinks they are trying to be those teams, they have terrible reading comprehension. It's been said OUTRIGHT, not between the lines, that they are NOT trying to be Phoenix. Running like freaks, sending a guy out before the rebound even, that's not uptempo, that's a running team. And its not what they are trying to do.

They are trying to be more ACTIVE on offense overall and to be more willing to push the ball into the front court in order to probe for an early in the clock advantage. But that still leaves the option to refuse an early shot if a good one can't be found. That's not the same as putting up every shot with 14 on the clock still.

I have read the same thing, but I used the Phoenix/Dallas analogy anyway. Maybe that was a bit lazy.

I guess my point is that I have serious doubts that we will have an improved offense with this group of players. We have lost two excellent shooters in Peja and Cro. They are vets that stretch the D, rebound well, nail almost all their free throws, and were our best 3pt shooters...by far. Fred and AJ were not too bad in that department either. These guys are all vets...and they are gone. In their place is Quis...who has no range...and Al who may or may not be that effective from 3....and should be on the block anyway....and close enough to rebound. Otherwise, we have a bunch of rooks, CBA and Euro guys. Totally unproven.

Dr. Goldfoot
09-22-2006, 02:45 AM
I'm gonna continue to assume these players will see the bulk of the playing time, given good health.

Jamaal Tinsley
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Al Harrington
Jeff Foster
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Danny Granger
Jeff Foster
Marquis Daniels

That's a nine man rotation, with only Al and Daniels being the new faces. Same head coach coupled with the same strengths and weaknesses will almost certainly lead to the same type of offense. The majority of the time we're going to feed Jermaine the ball. Every team tries to push the ball up the court when the opportunity knocks and that's really all I've heard from the Pacers this off season.

The majority of changes this off season have been to the non-factor type players. We added two rookies via draft, one a long term project and the other a promising second rounder with three talented vets (Jackson,Granger & Daniels) grappling for the same playing time. A 36 year old (Armstrong)who came out of retirement to make a trade happen. A 31 year old (Maceo) 16 game vet undersized power forward. A throw-in 7 footer (Edwards) who didn't see the court the first time around with the Pacers or with the bottom feeder Hawks the last two years. A young reserve (Greene) who was cut by a non-playoff team. A diamond in the rough CBA lifer ( Hunter). Two NBDL deal sweeteners ( Rawle & Powell).

The only player left off the list is Harrison. At least three of these players won't be on the final team. After the first nine....Harrison, Armstrong, Baston, Williams & White are assured to be here. That leaves one spot for Edwards,Greene,Hunter,Rawle & Powell.

Which means a total of 7 new players. Three of which will start the season on the injured list and two more who won't likely see much if any time on the floor. So what we're really left with is basically the same team and probably the same style of play.

McClintic Sphere
09-22-2006, 11:12 AM
What new offense?

I'll believe it when I see it.

It's called 'the Quick' and has evolved from John Wooden's UCLA offense and the motion, developed by Bob Knight.

ChicagoJ
09-22-2006, 12:54 PM
It's called 'the Quick' and has evolved from John Wooden's UCLA offense and the motion, developed by Bob Knight.

:banhim:

VigoCountyPacerFan
09-22-2006, 02:36 PM
THE QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SWEET MAMA OF ALL THAT IS ISIAH THOMAS!!!!!

:-o:-o:-o:-o:confused::confused::confused::mad::mad::mad::cry ::cry::cry::cry::cry::censored::censored::censored ::censored::-p