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fooddaman
08-04-2006, 08:08 AM
Laker Report: Can the Bobcats Help the Lakers Get Harrington?
By Eric Pincus
Aug 3, 2006, 16:01


Just when a deal with the Indiana Pacers seemed inevitable, Atlanta Hawks free agent Al Harrington fired his agent Andy Miller fueling speculation that the Harrington chase will begin anew. Harrington has subsequently turned to Arn Tellem for representation. Though it will take two weeks for the paperwork to make the agent change official, Tellem is able to negotiate a deal and receive his commission should an agreement be reached prior to the transition.
In other words, a new Harrington deal could happen immediately should the Hawks, Harrington and a third party strike a deal.
How does this impact the Los Angeles Lakers? Well it opens the Al Harrington door, albeit slightly.
ESPN.com reported that the Lakers did make a pitch earlier in the summer, but were rebuffed. For the record, this was after the signing of Vladimir Radmanovic . . . and thus the Lakers were clearly offering a trade package and not the mid-level exception.
The deal that was almost reached between the Pacers and Hawks involved the Pacers taking on the contract of John Edwards along with Harrington. The Hawks would not add a single player, but would receive a first round pick and cash. The hold-up with Indiana allegedly centered on how much cash and pick protection.
The key to the trade was the $7.6 million trade exception generated when the Pacers traded Peja Stojakovic to the New Orleans Hornets for essentially $250K. Despite some cries of shenanigans, suggesting the Hornets made the move to ensure that Harrington wasn't traded West; neither side did anything against the rules.
It is that rather large exception that enables the Pacers to take Harrington without dumping players on the Hawks. Atlanta appears to be holding a tight budget line with the legal battle brewing on the ownership front.
The Lakers, along with just about every other team in the league, do not have the ability to make a two-team deal that doesn't land salary in Atlanta.
All but the Bobcats are out of cap room and Charlotte appears to be uninterested in Harrington, still holding onto their cap space for some unknown future pursuit.
Which is why Laker GM Mitch Kupchak needs to get Charlotte GM Bernie Bickerstaff on the phone (or even Phil Jackson call up new Bobcat minority owner, Michael Jordan) to orchestrate a three-team deal. Currently the Bobcats' total salary is just above $31 million (not including the impending signing of Argentinean forward Walter Herrmann).
Teams must spend a minimum of $39,851,250 in total salary this season. If they are below that mark, the difference is automatically distributed to their existing players. In other words, if the Bobcats don't add a chunk of payroll before season's end, the money will be given as bonuses to the likes of Raymond Felton, Gerald Wallace, etc.
For facilitating a deal, the Bobcats could land the likes of Chris Mihm, Brian Cook and Aaron McKie (as filler), raising their team salary to the minimum level but still substantially below the cap . . . without giving up a single player. The Hawks could dump Edwards on either the Lakers or Bobcats, receive cash from LA and an unprotected pick . . . essentially equaling the offer from the Pacers.
In this theoretical three-way deal, the Lakers could pay Harrington significantly more than the Pacer offer (up to $10.76 million in the first year, though that might be higher than necessary). The Bobcats in turn get a pair of big men on one-year contracts, while upping their salary to the league minimum.
Of course other teams will be making offers that the Lakers will have to compete against. If the Bobcats are interested in making a three-team trade, they will certainly shop around for the best prospects available.
If Charlotte has no interest in helping Atlanta move Harrington, the best the Lakers can do is offer a similar package of Mihm, Cook and pieces directly to the Hawks. If Atlanta decides to take back contracts for Harrington, the Lakers probably lose out when measured by talent offered. Perhaps the expiring nature of LA's contracts would help, but no one seems confident that the Lakers are a frontrunner in the Harrington pursuit.

The Bottom Line
It's apparent the Lakers have interest in Harrington, but just how much they're willing to offer is uncertain.
Harrington's new agent may have a history with the Lakers (helped orchestrate the Vlade Divac for Kobe Bryant trade), but Tellem currently represents Jermaine O'Neal, Joe Johnson and Shelden Williams. His current connection to the Lakers is through Kwame Brown and Jordan Farmar. The agent change doesn't signify any specific benefit to the Lakers. It only opens the door once again league-wide for offers.
The Pacers still are considered the favorite.
The Lakers are entirely dependent on the participation of the Atlanta Hawks to get a deal done. Should a three-team trade be feasible, LA would also be relying on the Charlotte Bobcats.
The good news is that Tellem's arrival doesn't delay a deal. The paperwork to switch agents can still be pending while a trade gets done.
Hopefully closure will be reached soon, regardless of where Harrington lands.

LINK (http://www.hoopsworld.com/printer_18322.shtml)

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Bball
08-04-2006, 08:34 AM
It appears everyone thinks Al's new agent helps them due to some pre-existing relationships. The reality is that the guy is an agent, he has lots of pre-existing relationships.

-Bball

FrenchConnection
08-04-2006, 08:52 AM
Lakers' fans think that a package with Mihm could get them any player in the league!

aero
08-04-2006, 09:19 AM
Id rather see Harrington on the Lakers this year and go after a better free agent/ draft pick next year. Atlanta is wanting too much out of the deal for us

FrenchConnection
08-04-2006, 09:36 AM
Id rather see Harrington on the Lakers this year and go after a better free agent/ draft pick next year. Atlanta is wanting too much out of the deal for us

The only way that I would agree with you would be if I could somehow fall asleep in November and not wake up until draft day. Also, for all of you that are calling for tanking a year (you know, the trade JO and go for Oden crowd), I think that we should have a policy that you are not allowed to complain about poor play at all next year. After all, this is what you wanted. Maybe we need to create a roll call of these posters and then Hicks will edit their game thread posts.:D

rexnom
08-04-2006, 09:44 AM
The only way that I would agree with you would be if I could somehow fall asleep in November and not wake up until draft day. Also, for all of you that are calling for tanking a year (you know, the trade JO and go for Oden crowd), I think that we should have a policy that you are not allowed to complain about poor play at all next year. After all, this is what you wanted. Maybe we need to create a roll call of these posters and then Hicks will edit their game thread posts.:D
Just so you know, I want JO to retire a Pacer...because I think he is a rare talent you rarely draft, especially in our position. The same, however, is not true of Al Harrington.

Then again, Al does bring other things to the table that some young guy can't and it would be nice to have the entire state back the team again.

Kegboy
08-04-2006, 10:16 AM
I still don't see how the proposed deal is legal. You can't sign somebody else's FA and trade him immediately. I believe you have to wait until December before you can trade somebody you signed over the summer.

able
08-04-2006, 10:31 AM
I still don't see how the proposed deal is legal. You can't sign somebody else's FA and trade him immediately. I believe you have to wait until December before you can trade somebody you signed over the summer.
the S&T would be with the Lakers, who get a trade excemption from the Bobcats for the players they send there, the TE goes to Atl.

naptownmenace
08-04-2006, 10:41 AM
I still don't see how the proposed deal is legal. You can't sign somebody else's FA and trade him immediately. I believe you have to wait until December before you can trade somebody you signed over the summer.


I think that, under the stated scenario, Atlanta would re-sign Al and then trade him to the Lakers. The Lakers trade a couple of players like Brian Cook and Mihm to the Bobcats and a draft pick and cash to Atlanta. This should equal out to whatever Al's first year salary will be (trading away salary to balance Al's incoming salary).

This is not good news for the Pacers. The Lakers could offer Al more money than what he would've made in the Pacers deal. A million or 2 difference a year makes a big difference by years 4 & 5. I think it's the Lakers have a 50/50 chance to nab him.

able
08-04-2006, 10:45 AM
I think that, under the stated scenario, Atlanta would re-sign Al and then trade him to the Lakers. The Lakers trade a couple of players like Brian Cook and Mihm to the Bobcats and a draft pick and cash to Atlanta. This should equal out to whatever Al's first year salary will be (trading away salary to balance Al's incoming salary).

This is not good news for the Pacers. The Lakers could offer Al more money than what he would've made in the Pacers deal. A million or 2 difference a year makes a big difference by years 4 & 5. I think it's the Lakers have a 50/50 chance to nab him.
The one (and main) weak point in that idea however is that the Bobcats have to be working with them, and for that to happen, for questionable players, more then a little earth has to be moved.
Besides that, this deal was open earlier, so why has it not happened ?

fooddaman
08-04-2006, 10:57 AM
The one (and main) weak point in that idea however is that the Bobcats have to be working with them, and for that to happen, for questionable players, more then a little earth has to be moved.
Besides that, this deal was open earlier, so why has it not happened ?

I think the one sticking point (at least I hope) is that Al really wants to be back with the Pacers.

Outside of that, LA could offer a higher starting salary. This is all dependant upon the Bobcats help in facilitating such a deal.

FrenchConnection
08-04-2006, 10:59 AM
I think that, under the stated scenario, Atlanta would re-sign Al and then trade him to the Lakers. The Lakers trade a couple of players like Brian Cook and Mihm to the Bobcats and a draft pick and cash to Atlanta. This should equal out to whatever Al's first year salary will be (trading away salary to balance Al's incoming salary).

This is not good news for the Pacers. The Lakers could offer Al more money than what he would've made in the Pacers deal. A million or 2 difference a year makes a big difference by years 4 & 5. I think it's the Lakers have a 50/50 chance to nab him.

Don't worry. Pinkus/emplay is just speculating here. He has no source that indicates that the Lakers are even trying to make any deal of this sort. All indications are that Al changed agents to get the Indiana deal done, and this information comes from reputable sources.

aero
08-04-2006, 11:23 AM
The only way that I would agree with you would be if I could somehow fall asleep in November and not wake up until draft day. Also, for all of you that are calling for tanking a year (you know, the trade JO and go for Oden crowd), I think that we should have a policy that you are not allowed to complain about poor play at all next year. After all, this is what you wanted. Maybe we need to create a roll call of these posters and then Hicks will edit their game thread posts.:D


I really think we could do ok with AL hes good and all but he's not that good....Ive just never been a huge fan of baby al...as for the whole Greg Oden fans i really dont see how hes that good either, sure he dominated high school kids but how well will he be at the next level in NCAA ball ? He better live up to the hype for the Ohio fans...

blanket
08-04-2006, 11:37 AM
from poster rexhawk on Hawksquawk.net:
http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=161843&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=#161843

from Bernie Mullins on 680thefan......


I heard the entire interview and here are the key points.

1. We have signed a big. The paperwork is complete but can not be announced until Al's S&T trade is complete. Has something to do with needing a portion of Al's Salary. Bernie stated that the signing happens even if Al walks away from the team as a free agent.

2. The new Big has been a long time starter in the league but is willing to play backup. Bernie believed along with the hosts that the new big could end up starting.

3. Regarding the S&T, we will only get a "good" player back worth 10 million a year salary or 10 million in cash. Basically, AL is set on making 10million plus a year. Bernie stated that we would not take any "junk" players in a S&T for Al. He specifically mention the Golden State situation.

4. He listed his version of the starting line up in this order:
PG-Speedy Claxton, Tyrone Lue, Royal Ivey
SG- Joe Johnson, Josh Childress, Salim Stoudamire
SF- Josh Smith or Marvin Williams ( He stated that they would have to battle it out in camp)
PF- Sheldon Williams, Estaban (Stated that Sheldon would start because Al gave up too many points in the paint last year)
C- Zaza or Mystery Big.

It appears that the Mystery Big must be Lorenzen Wright. He is the only free agent center that is left on the market.

5. Bernie also stated that he felt that Arm Tellem would be creative in setting up a S&T.

Will Galen
08-04-2006, 11:43 AM
All indications are that Al changed agents to get the Indiana deal done, and this information comes from reputable sources.

What reputable sources?

I don't see how changing agents will get the deal done. The teams couldn't agree on the cash or protection for the pick. Al could have just sat until one team budged.

I think we should have given more cash in exchange for more protection for the pick. But that's probably been suggested. What's Tellem going to say that Miller didn't?

It appears to me that by opening it back up the Pacers are the team that has something to lose. Atlanta can still set tight.

The only thing that could make Atlanta move is Al threatening to sign for the mid level. And with their ownership problems they could call his bluff by default. It doesn't cost Atlanta anything, but they would lose a pick and some cash. Al would lose millions. We MIGHT get Al cheaper.

I say might because us not bulging off of our offer when Al was willing to give up a million a year could make him mad. He could take NY or LA's mid-level, or whoever still has their mid level. I think this is Bird gambling. I think Walsh would have reached a deal.

rexnom
08-04-2006, 11:47 AM
Wait...if they need a portion of Al's salary then the sign-and-trade must be either with us or through the Bobcats as described above, right?

Will Galen
08-04-2006, 11:49 AM
from Bernie Mullins on 680thefan......

Sounds funny to me. How are they going to get back $10,000,000 in cash when $3,000,000 is the limit.

rexnom
08-04-2006, 11:57 AM
Sounds funny to me. How are they going to get back $10,000,000 in cash when $3,000,000 is the limit.
I'm guessing it's part of the cap space Al's salary takes up.

FrenchConnection
08-04-2006, 11:58 AM
If all that stuff in Blanket's post is true (especially the parts about the Hawks being willing to take on players and Al looking for more than our TE), then we are not getting Al. We would have a massive but useless trade exception (you tell me a good player that makes 7.6 million that a team is looking to move) and we lost AJ for a useless vet and an even more useless TE. We are left holding the cards and the entire off season is shot. That trade exception will get us two role players at the deadline at best. I imagine that we will end up waiving it. I would rather they do that than load up this roster with more bench depth, which is the only thing that would be considered overpaid at 7.6 million.

And Will, I think that this is Donnie's work. Bird scouts 'em and Donnie gets 'em, IMO. If this all falls through, this is Donnie's massive failure and it needs to be on his shoulders. If it is Bird, this should cost him his job. And as for my earlier statement, I was under the impression that :montieth: knew what he was talking about. Now I am not so sure.

rexnom
08-04-2006, 12:07 PM
If all that stuff in Blanket's post is true (especially the parts about the Hawks being willing to take on players and Al looking for more than our TE), then we are not getting Al. We would have a massive but useless trade exception (you tell me a good player that makes 7.6 million that a team is looking to move) and we lost AJ for a useless vet and an even more useless TE. We are left holding the cards and the entire off season is shot. That trade exception will get us two role players at the deadline at best. I imagine that we will end up waiving it. I would rather they do that than load up this roster with more bench depth, which is the only thing that would be considered overpaid at 7.6 million.

And Will, I think that this is Donnie's work. Bird scouts 'em and Donnie gets 'em, IMO. If this all falls through, this is Donnie's massive failure and it needs to be on his shoulders. If it is Bird, this should cost him his job. And as for my earlier statement, I was under the impression that :montieth: knew what he was talking about. Now I am not so sure.

Adding the whole "Tellem can be creative in S&Ts" to the original article, I think it's totally possible for a team to swoop in and get Harrington with the Bobcats' help.

Also, if Al gets 10mil/year then this is obviously an issue of Al getting greedy and wanting more money because he knows how much we can give him and he is wanting more.

Kegboy
08-04-2006, 12:09 PM
the S&T would be with the Lakers, who get a trade excemption from the Bobcats for the players they send there, the TE goes to Atl.

Okay. Thanks Abel.

BoomBaby31
08-04-2006, 01:06 PM
I really think we could do ok with AL hes good and all but he's not that good....Ive just never been a huge fan of baby al...as for the whole Greg Oden fans i really dont see how hes that good either, sure he dominated high school kids but how well will he be at the next level in NCAA ball ? He better live up to the hype for the Ohio fans...

QFT: nice post.. Oden is nice but, he doesn't have the overwhelmingly dominance where it is a forsure thing, like Lebron was.

PacerFan31
08-04-2006, 01:33 PM
I think that, under the stated scenario, Atlanta would re-sign Al and then trade him to the Lakers. The Lakers trade a couple of players like Brian Cook and Mihm to the Bobcats and a draft pick and cash to Atlanta. This should equal out to whatever Al's first year salary will be (trading away salary to balance Al's incoming salary).

This is not good news for the Pacers. The Lakers could offer Al more money than what he would've made in the Pacers deal. A million or 2 difference a year makes a big difference by years 4 & 5. I think it's the Lakers have a 50/50 chance to nab him.

Why is this bad news for the Pacers? The most money that the Hawks could get back is 3 million, and a pick.

Also, if you would have read the article, IT IS PURE SPECULATION on some writers part.

Eric_Pincus
08-04-2006, 02:08 PM
Hey all - I always enjoy visiting PD - one of the better fan sites out there.

As I state in my article - the Pacers are still the favorite for Harrington.

I write a Laker Report - and I know the Lakers have interest - though I'm not sure how far they're willing to go to get something done.

To clarify - the scenario I wrote about is a three-way trade - the key is for the Lakers to send out enough contracts to bring in Harrington. Since both the Cats and Hawks are under the cap - either team can take those pieces from LA.

So the trade would be:

Mihm and pieces to the Cats
Harrington to the Lakers
Pick and cash to the Hawks

The odds of something like that going through are VERY, VERY slim - but the Cats DO need to up their payroll to the league minimum.

This isn't a rumor and I make it clear in the article it's a theoretical deal.

Noteworthy though - the Pacers trade exception is not the ONLY way to get a deal done where the Hawks don't take salary.

If the Bobcats are willing - another team can work a three-way - not necessarily the Lakers.

But who is to say the Cats are willing?

RWB
08-04-2006, 02:21 PM
Eric, thanks for the clarification, much appreciated.

BoomBaby31
08-04-2006, 04:00 PM
http://espn.go.com/poll/images/poll38375_0.gif

CableKC
08-04-2006, 04:17 PM
Doesn't this all hinder on the Bobcats helping the Lakers out?

I know that they have to spend 8 or 9 mil in order to get up to the league minimum......but I would think that they could do better.

The only reason why I could see them do this is if they get something out of all this.....$$$, draft picks, etc......or if they are desperate enough to only want Expiring contracts so that they can be wiped off the books in the 2007 offseason.

Naptown_Seth
08-04-2006, 07:41 PM
the S&T would be with the Lakers, who get a trade excemption from the Bobcats for the players they send there, the TE goes to Atl.
The TE doesn't go to Atlanta, the TE is used by the Lakers to then accept the incoming contract into the cap. Atlanta does not end up with a TE when its over.

Teams sometimes do get a TE if another team uses a TE, but only because a new one was created when they sent out a player but got nothing back. If Atlanta was over the cap and SnT'd Al to Indy for a draft pick, they would also get a newly created TE for the cap space made by moving Al out and not taking a player back at the time.

This could happen because of Indy having the TE (and therefore not having to meet the CBA requirements to match his salary back out). This also happens if a team is under the cap and therefore not required by the CBA to match salaries in return.

Just clarifying. :)

Naptown_Seth
08-04-2006, 07:45 PM
But who is to say the Cats are willing?
I think this is why most people have been calling Indy the only "non-contracts" option, everyone assumes that CHA is not interested in this situation.

But being under the cap they could certainly make a TE happen for other teams if they are interested in getting a player that another team would be willing to trade for Al (effectively).



Besides that, this deal was open earlier, so why has it not happened ?
Exactly.

Eric_Pincus
08-04-2006, 08:00 PM
Seth - the Lakers wouldn't have any trade exception - there would be no trade exception in my theoried trade. Only teams over the cap earn exceptions in a non-simultaneous trade. The Lakers would not earn a trade exception but would rather land a player.

It's a simple 3-team trade utilizing the cap room of both Atlanta and Charlotte - in theory anyway.

v_d_g
08-04-2006, 08:08 PM
one-for-two-at-the=line-in-crunch time AL

is not worth next year's 1st rounder


which will probably been a teens pick at worst

his presence does not make that much of a difference

let the young guys develop by playing

Naptown_Seth
08-04-2006, 08:09 PM
Seth - the Lakers wouldn't have any trade exception - there would be no trade exception in my theoried trade. Only teams over the cap earn exceptions in a non-simultaneous trade. The Lakers would not earn a trade exception but would rather land a player.

It's a simple 3-team trade utilizing the cap room of both Atlanta and Charlotte - in theory anyway.
Yes, sorry. I was going off of Able's interpretation, but then looking back I see that you are talking about a simultanious situation. Of course a TE oriented deal could also be done, though it woudn't be necessary if everyone was already on board to make the deal.

Same as Indy could have turned the Peja SnT into a 3 way deal with Atlanta right then if everyone had been ready to do the deal.

Eric_Pincus
08-04-2006, 09:16 PM
for the record - with the Cats signing Voskuhl and the Hawks signing Lo Wright - I don't see how either would want Mihm - that is unless Pachulia or Brezec are also on the move.

Add all the pieces together - I just don't think LA has the pieces to get a deal done - not without Mihm and Cook being the centerpieces coming out from LA.