PDA

View Full Version : Odd thoughts from a mid summers night's dream....



Peck
08-01-2006, 01:22 AM
Well it's been awhile, hell I don't even know how long really but I think now is the time for me to start a new thread.

Where to begin? When last we left I felt as low as you possibly could about our team. From what I saw and what I had become accustomed to over the years from our fearless leadership I thought we were as far away from an NBA title as we were in the late 80's early 90's.

Now a few months removed do I still feel the same?

Yes.

However I am not in a hopeless haze of despair. No, not at all.

While I in no way feel as though we are title bound or for that matter am I even 100% convinced that we are even a playoff team I will say this.

I absolutely respect the fact that management is looking at the team with a critical eye & does not seem to be accepting last seasons results as something that will be tolerated. I also deeply enjoy the fact that even though they could use lots of excuses to keep the same team on the floor, they are not doing it.

Does that mean that I enjoy or have agreed with every move that managements made? No, frankly it does not & I will delve into that in a moment but I will not be a hypocrite & complain about player movements just because they are moving some players I would wish they would not move. I always prefer a proactive approach when it comes to player movements & this season they have not dissapointed me.

Now that I have all of the nice things to say out of my system, let's get down to business & offend some people.

***********************WARNING******************** ********
**********YOU ARE ABOUT TO ENTER INTO PECK'S CONSPIRACIES*******
******ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK IF YOU ARE A FAN OF THE BIG 3*******

Ok, if you are here your either a masochist or like Fox Mulder "you want to believe".

Anthony Johnson said at the podium last season after he had just single handedly shut down Jermaine O'Neal & guaranteed a first round exit of the team:trashshake: that the culture of the team needed to change.

I'm sure, like many of you, I did not have A.J. in mind when I was thinking of the culture change.

So how the hell did we end up trading Austin Croshere, Anthony Johnson & letting Fred Jones walk away for free?

Well, here goes. This is my paranoid unprovable version of events.

We tried to trade all of the Axis of evil & we had no takers. Or more likely we had takers but the offers were so rediculas that management would not even consider them.

So, I think when J.O. said he & Bird had a sit down & that things were cool & he laid out what he wanted from the team & they said what they wanted from him. I believe him.

In fact I think what we are seeing is exactly the same scenario that Isiah is getting in New York. I think J.O. has one year to turn this team around with his crew. Now by turning it around I am not saying they are demanding a title or even an E.C. finals apperance. My guess, & remember people this is all just my hunches & guesses, is that TPTB would be happy with a solid season showing steady & gradual improvement all year long with at the very least a run at the second round.

However the downside is this. If the team fails again & it is due to lack of lockeroom cohesion or lack of leadership I think we will see J.O. take that player option & walk away with the blessing of the Pacers. They may try a sign & trade but who knows.

That is why all of the people who also had a leadership role on the club are gone. This will be J.O.'s team to either sink or swim with.

Now I caveat that with this. If Al Harrington ever comes home Al will become the defacto leader of the club, however Al is J.O.'s pal so even then he will really be a strong lieutenant for J.O.

Armstrong was brought in because even though he is a strong leader he is not going to rock the boat in a new locker room in his last season in the NBA.

So while I am sure that A.J. was sent away to end some of the p.g. controversy, I think this had more to do with locker room leadership than anything.

As to Jamaal & Jax. Well, frankly they probably would have to do like Jose Slaughter suggested at the last party. They would have to give Jamaal away with a draft pick just to get someone to take him. They aren't going to do that because for all of his faults, & they are legion, at the end of the day when healthy & motivated he is a hell of a point guard.

Jax, they probably tried very hard with Jax as well but the price either just wasn't right or they couldn't get anyone to take him. My guess is the former not the latter.

So what we are left with is Jermaine & some players to go around him.

Maybe that's what we should do, there have been plenty of people on here who have advocated that the team has never built around J.O.:shrug: I don't know.

But I can say this, while I am happy that things are being done, I am just not sure that John Q. Fan is as thrilled.

I would bet if we took a poll of everybody who left the fieldhouse after game 6 we probably would not find a lot of people who would tell you that Austin & A.J. should be the ones to go. But what do I know?

So in summery on this part I just think the Pacers know that for this season they are stuck with O'Neal & they are just now making arrangements to build around him & also set the road to remove him if they have to.

Think about it for a min. They are bringing in his buddy but it's a player who plays his spot on the floor. If he succeeds at being the 5 they can take credit for moving him to a spot where he could excell & for bringing in the right player to play with him & he can even be happy that it's his buddy.

However if he fails the team can point out that they brought in low post player to help him & they even brought in his buddy to make it easier on him. The fact that he couldn't succeed won't be thier fault.

You have to hand it to Walsh, this is shrewed.

******************End of conspiracy stuff ***************************

Now I want to delve into something a little more touchy. Please people for the love of God let's try & keep this civil & be mature about this.

I wonder if Scot Pollard will be re-signed? The reason I wonder this is because in a way what I've written above, the team is being set up around J.O.

How many times have I seen written on here that we should keep Scot because he is funny & a good locker room presence?

I'm curious if that is true or not? I wonder if we are not reflecting to much of our culture into this?

Let me be more specific. I wonder if to most of us on this board Scot Pollard is a funny guy but to the young urban ultra mature & suave O'Neal & friends if he isn't just a clown. And I don't mean a funny or sad clown you would see at a circus, I mean a joke of a person who you laugh at not because he is meaning to be funny.

I have no way of knowing one way or the other but I just wonder if Scot Pollard & Jermaine O'Neal don't mix like oil & water? Like I said I think this is being set up around J.O. & to be honest a big bruiser like Scot would make a lot of sense, but I wonder if maybe this will happen or not.

Think back to the night of the brawl. Jermaine, Jax & company all said they were trying to protect their own. Scott said that he was proud he could tell his kids that he wasn't involved in that nonesense.

I may be reaching with this one & for the love of God please let's not turn this into a black or white issue. But I really wonder if Scot would really be usefull in the locker room like many of us think? Again, just my opinions & I may be way off base.

Now to the new Pacers.

Let's start with our draft picks shall we?

I guess we just cannot stand not having Jon Bender on the team, so we go out get another one? Look in honesty I am giving the team a break because I watched the draft & we weren't the only team that passed on the pg. & this was a weak draft anyway so I guess if this is what they want this is what we get. However I can't help but notice that right away they were downplaying him & his abiltiy to contribute next season. That bothers me & I can't lie.

The trade for White seems like a solid move at the moment, however I had gotten used to that 6'10" guy we drafted then traded. But he was traded again so I guess he was popular.

In fact it seems our second round pick may be more ready than our first round pick. That scares me but makes me happy all at the same time.

Marquis Daniels? Good solid trade. I know that is a shock to many people because I have come across as a Croshere apologist for years. Which is funny because the guy cost me Dale Davis so out of any player I should have resented him the most. However I grew to admire his never say die attitude & I really enjoyed the fact that the guy was willing to body up on anybody even if he didn't stand a chance. However, for Croshere straight up this was the best trade you could hope to get & I think we will be fine with him. He will at least be a player to be able to sit Jackson down when he loses his mind.

Armstrong? I loved him as a player years ago. If this had been 4-7 years ago I would have been estatic. However with A.J.'s trade value being at an all-time high how we could not have come up with something a little better is beyond me. We traded A.J. for a salary dump which I just don't get. But like I said above I do get the fact that they are trying to build around J.O. & give him his crew. So while I don't like it, I sort of understand.

Marshall & Powell? I would like to give them a look, but my guess is that they will be in other teams camps in the fall. Like I said that sucks because I think we could have gotten a lot more for A.J. or he could have been packaged with someone for something better. But maybe not, they know better than me.

Orien Green. Here is the funny part about this, I like this pickup. In fact I think he has a chance to be a good player. Not a star player but a very good one.

Maceo Baston? :confused: Ok, I'll admit this one confuses me. I have no idea what to think. I sure as hell hope this is not the backup plan in case the Al deal fall through.

Al Harrington? Well, he may come. If he does I will say this. I like Al Harrington. I have always liked Al Harrington & I have never understood why he was called the black hole for doing the job he was asked to do. When he started he played a differant role & did not look to shoot as much. But coming off of the bench his job was to be the first offensive option. That is what Isiah wanted from him & that is what Carlisle wanted from him.

I digress.

I think Al will fit perfectly into our lineup. Danny Al-Jermaine will be one hell of a player. Ok, in all seriousness that lineup has the potential to be scary good. Almost as good as the Artest, O'neal, Miller lineup. However this lineup may be better because one is not crazy & the other is not injury prone (there are you happy).

I think Al is a P.R. move, but what is wrong with that? Just because it is a P.R. move doesn't mean it's a bad move.

The worst trade, other than Tom Owens for the 1st round pick, that this team has ever made was Al Harrington for Stephen Jackson. Now we have a chance to rectify that.

However if that deal does fall through I am very worried about the upcoming season.

Look, I've made my peace with Jeff Foster, however I will never EVER like Jermaine & Jeff on the floor together at all. They do NOT compliment each other at all IMO.

Like Donnie said, we still need some big man help. If Al comes I'm less worried, however that's less than guaranteed at this point.

Now for no reason in particular some dancing fruit.

:mango: :cucumber: :pineapple :rock: :pepper: :bdance: :bananadan

Ok, let's see what haven't we covered yet?

Saras. Um, why do I have a feeling I am about to be force fed some cabbage? If Jamaal pulls a Tinsley is Saras the man at the point? I'm not sure. Was last season a fluke? Was it rookie jitters? Poor locker room conditions? Etc., etc.? I don't know the answer to any of that all I know is that I really am not comfortable knowing that right now if J.T. goes down this is the way we are going to go. I hope next season is better than last for him.

Harrison. Let's just say his interview left me less than thrilled. His idea that he wasn't complaining any more than anybody else was both true & disgusting all at the same time.

I love his size, I love his potential however I am not married to the thought that he has to be here. I prefer he stay but honestly if by this season he hasn't gotten it yet, about the fouls & the mouthing off, then I don't think he ever will.

Slick Rick. Is it Bird never really was going to remove him or is it the Simons are putting their foot down about money? I don't know the answer to that but either way it looks as though we are in for the next season of Coach Carlisle. Up tempo free flowing offense is just not what I am thinking of when I think Rick.

Now to be real Carlisle can coach a differant style than what we have seen over the past couple of seasons. However I am not sure he trusts any of our point guards enough to play like that, and IMO he has good reasons to doubt. Jamaal has the skill however doesn't always have the brains. Saras has the brains but frankly hasn't shown the skill. Green is an unknown & White & Daniels are no more p.g.'s than Jeff Foster is.

All in all I will say this. I am still very apprehensive about this season, however the team is now showing that they are willing to blow it up again next off-season if it doesn't work this season.

That's enough for now, feel free to flame away.

Anthem
08-01-2006, 01:38 AM
Nice work, Peck, as always. I have only three questions.

First, why are you assuming that we're done? We've got the potential to start September with 20 players on the roster. Surely some of them are tradable.

Second, is it even safe to assume that Pollard is physically capable of playing another season in the NBA? A couple million isn't chump change, but the dude's back is a mess.

Third, is this the conspiracy theory that you had a while ago, but were waiting to tell about? Because whatever that was, it sounded more ominous than this one.

Naptown_Seth
08-01-2006, 01:43 AM
Remember what Bird was doing during the Artest fiasco last year? Some of the players do too, and they didn't care for it. So in the end some of this may be a moot point if Larry doesn't step up his involvement with the CURRENT players.

Also, there is a big problem here. They didn't make it JO's team. Al is it, and he's not here yet. No Bonzi, apparently no consideration of him according to DW at one point.

Baston is a SarJas guy. JO and Jack got into it big time 2 seasons ago right around the playoffs, and had to clear the air in the press the next day.

Pollard is what he seems based on seeing him away from the court. And based on his interaction with Harrison I'd say that at least some of the players actually find him fun to be around. He's not "flakey", he's smart and sarcastic and willing to goof around, but also a serious player too. He seems liked by the players to me.


I think you are looking too hard at some of this, and moreso considering that we know the roster is not yet set. Al is yet to join them and at this point several players will have to be cut. On top of this DW/LB have mentioned the idea of other positions yet to be filled (a shooter, a big).

Something seems to be brewing as though the team expects to move several players for one, or they just don't mind spending cash to take a look at a few guys.


But the "culture" that had to be changed wasn't hip-hop or JO's clique or any of that. The culture was one of losing and justifying it by feeling sorry for themselves, about finger pointing and blame and bitterness.

That's not the same as "a guy" being bad, that's the general vibe losing track of things after Ron and the brawl and the injuries.

So you attack that with energy guys who just want a chance and will work through anything, plus a vet or 2 that come from a positive team and have a strong positive/smart attitude. Doesn't mean you don't want your main guys to not do the work, you just recognize that they need some guidance and examples, both in age/wisdom and in youthful exhuberance and energy.



Now for no reason in particular some dancing fruit.BTW, some of those are veggies you :censored:
:tongue:

Lord Helmet
08-01-2006, 01:55 AM
Good post, Peck. We need more of this to read since Billy Knight isn't going to let the Al deal get complete until 2035....

Will Galen
08-01-2006, 03:46 AM
BTW, some of those are veggies you :censored:
:tongue:

Peck always tries to satisfy the cabbage lovers, and since we don't have any cabbages . . .

jjbjjbjjb
08-01-2006, 04:13 AM
I know it seems too obvious not to be, but I'm really not sure Baston is done on Saras's behalf. All I can see out of it for sure is that Pollard won't be resigned.

I also think TPTB will be willing to let Saras get beaten out for the backup PG spot by Orien Greene in camp. Anyone else buy that?

Eindar
08-01-2006, 05:23 AM
I know it seems too obvious not to be, but I'm really not sure Baston is done on Saras's behalf. All I can see out of it for sure is that Pollard won't be resigned.

I also think TPTB will be willing to let Saras get beaten out for the backup PG spot by Orien Greene in camp. Anyone else buy that?

I buy it, but I doubt it'll happen. Sarunas looked decent until he hit the wall around the all-star break. Even if it happens again, he'll be well-rested and playing in top form for training camp/preseason.

Now, if we're taking bets that Orien Greene will be the backup PG by the time the playoffs start? That bet would be too rich for my blood ;)

Will Galen
08-01-2006, 05:34 AM
I buy it, but I doubt it'll happen. Sarunas looked decent until he hit the wall around the all-star break. Even if it happens again, he'll be well-rested and playing in top form for training camp/preseason.

Now, if we're taking bets that Orien Greene will be the backup PG by the time the playoffs start? That bet would be too rich for my blood ;)

Why I think Greene being the backup guard when the playoffs start would be a good bet. Tin man will be injured and Saras will be starting, so of course Greene would move up. (grin)

Eindar
08-01-2006, 05:58 AM
Why I think Greene being the backup guard when the playoffs start would be a good bet. Tin man will be injured and Saras will be starting, so of course Greene would move up. (grin)

Haha, well, in that case Greene might be our STARTING PG :puke:

Kegboy
08-01-2006, 09:50 AM
I don't think there's ever been a Peck gigantapost that I've agreed with more. I'm surprised my skin hasn't shriveled up and force lightning isn't coming out of my fingers yet.

McClintic Sphere
08-01-2006, 09:59 AM
Here's another conspiracy: Stern really does control the NBA. He made a backroom deal with Mel Simon after the P's bit the bullet for corporate marketing approval on the Brawl: Ping Pong balls will mysteriously float your way to steer Greg Oden to Indy (ala the bent corner of the envelope with Ewing to NY). Just make sure you mess up the roster enough this year to not make the playoffs.
Gillian Anderson related that to me over cigarettes on the lanai last evening.

Putnam
08-01-2006, 10:00 AM
Wow, there are about ten threads worth of stuff in this thread. Peck is prolific.



Think back to the night of the brawl. Jermaine, Jax & company all said they were trying to protect their own. Scott said that he was proud he could tell his kids that he wasn't involved in that nonesense.

I may be reaching with this one & for the love of God please let's not turn this into a black or white issue. But I really wonder if Scot would really be usefull in the locker room like many of us think? Again, just my opinions & I may be way off base.

Yeah, its not a black 'n white issue, because good conduct comes in both flavors. You know who was the real hero of that episode? Reggie! He was on the bench when the fight broke out, but he went into the middle of it just to pull his man out. I'm sure it crossed Reggie's mind that he was going to get fined for leaving the bench during an altercation. But he was a real leader and a real teammate and he cared more about helping quell the fight than keeping himself clear of it. So he went out into the middle of it, and all the way into the tunnel he was shielding Artest and getting pelted with beer and popcorn himself. No knock to Pollard, who did the "right" thing. But Reggie did the "better" thing.



We tried to trade all of the Axis of evil & we had no takers. Or more likely we had takers but the offers were so (ridiculous) that management would not even consider them.

Too soon, too soon. Peck's statement may be totally true as of this moment, but TPTB are clearly still in the dealing mode. And it just makes no sense that Jackson cannot be dealt. He is a player with good stats, and the bad conduct occurred on a team in crisis. I'd have to imagine most other teams would think, "He'll behave well for us."

The current glut of players makes it MORE likely that there will be additional deals. Remember that we cannot yet deal the recently acquired players. If there is any kind of a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 coming, we'll have to wait a few weeks to be able to make the deal.

I like all the changes, more or less. Some of them are negligible. (Greene is a slight improvement over Gill as the garbage time point guard, but neither of them was/is going to be given the opportunity to show whether he can make a difference.) Daniels and White are the two really exciting acquisitions.


For such a long post, Peck doesn't address what I consider the second most interesting question of the off-season. First is, of course, who is going to be in the locker room come October. But second is the new offense. There is some reason to doubt whether Carlisle will let it change much at all. But if he is willing to loosen up, he's got the wheels now to do it. So, if it does change, will it be a fastbreaking offense, or a halfcourt offense with lots of ball movement? Will it be Jay@section 204's 4-out offense? Will it be successful without any pure shooters on the floor?


Look, I've made my peace with Jeff Foster, however I will never EVER like Jermaine & Jeff on the floor together at all. They do NOT compliment each other at all IMO.

If JO and Foster don't play together, when does Foster play? Surely not Foster and Harrison! As the best rebounder in the NBA (per 48 minutes), Foster is an asset the team should value. Peck, how DO you envision using Foster?

All in all, a very insightful post, Peck.

arenn
08-01-2006, 10:00 AM
Well see. There are two aspects to culture. One is the team chemistry that feeds into the ability to win games. The other is one that allows the team to connect with the fans. Even if we solve the former with this crew, I'm not sure it will fix that latter, absent a very large number of wins. Attendance is down, the fan base hasn't connected with them, and that will force the Pacers hand at some point.

SoupIsGood
08-01-2006, 10:12 AM
First, why are you assuming that we're done?

Thank you! This is seemingly becoming a board-wide attitude. :headexplosion:

Naptown_Seth
08-01-2006, 10:14 AM
Peck always tries to satisfy the cabbage lovers, and since we don't have any cabbages . . .
Ironic isn't it. How can PD not have a Cabbages smiley. I could put him on my all-smiley Pacers roster.

Frank Slade
08-01-2006, 10:30 AM
Ironic isn't it. How can PD not have a Cabbages smiley. I could put him on my all-smiley Pacers roster.

http://www.theveggiegang.co.uk/meet_gang/barnpic.jpg

Peck
08-01-2006, 12:57 PM
Nice work, Peck, as always. I have only three questions.

First, why are you assuming that we're done? We've got the potential to start September with 20 players on the roster. Surely some of them are tradable.

Second, is it even safe to assume that Pollard is physically capable of playing another season in the NBA? A couple million isn't chump change, but the dude's back is a mess.

Third, is this the conspiracy theory that you had a while ago, but were waiting to tell about? Because whatever that was, it sounded more ominous than this one.


1. Hmmmmmmmmm...... I'm not sure how I left the idea that I thought we were done. But you aren't the only one who thought that so I guess let me clarify. I do NOT believe we are done making moves. I don't know what is left but I think we will do something & it may or may not be spectacular.

2. Yes, I believe he could play another season with his back. I don't know Scot's pain level but when called upon he seemed fine.

3. Refresh me, I've had so many that I just don't remember which one.

CableKC
08-01-2006, 12:59 PM
Interesting thought on the conspiracy theory. Are you suggesting that TPTB has eliminated any likely "voices of authority" outside of JONeal and therefore leaving a vacuum around him everyone to fall behind JONeal cuz there are very little other choices?

I do side more with Naptown Seth on your comments on Pollard. For the very reasons that was brought up....I still think he can offer much to the team......but given the number of Free Agents that we are signing ( that may or may not be on the roster by the regular season every other day....I have no idea if he will be resigned as well.

Also....I would really hope that all these additional FA signings...guaranteed or not....means that there will be some more moves and therefore have an actual offseason plan. I'm hoping that we are not going to go into training camp with 16+ players and have them fight for a regular season spot. That seem's more like a "throw whatever **stuff** at the wall....and whatever sticks at the end...we keep" type approach then an actual offseason plan.

jjbjjbjjb
08-01-2006, 01:09 PM
Also....I would really hope that all these additional FA signings...guaranteed or not....means that there will be some more moves and therefore have an actual offseason plan. I'm hoping that we are not going to go into training camp with 16+ players and have them fight for a regular season spot. That seem's more like a "throw whatever **stuff** at the wall....and whatever sticks at the end...we keep" type approach then an actual offseason plan.

Would you rather they bring in exactly the number of guys they need, thus putting them in no position to cut or move anyone who turns out not to be what they hoped?

McKeyFan
08-01-2006, 01:20 PM
Like many consipiracy theories, it may have been a little of several factors.

1. Since AJ and Cro are good people, they are more able to provide leadership.

2. Since AJ and Cro have good attitudes, they are easier to trade.

3. Since AJ and Cro compete with JO's authority on the team, the easier-to-pull-off trades have this added "bonus" for JO, and any of TPTB trying to please JO.

Several forces come together, and the conspiracy theory is true, but only as one of several motives.

blanket
08-01-2006, 01:33 PM
Ironic isn't it. How can PD not have a Cabbages smiley. I could put him on my all-smiley Pacers roster.

There are some nice ones out there. Take your pick!

http://kues.educ.kumamoto-u.ac.jp/~fuzoku/EIKAIWA/ILLUSTRATIONS/vegetable/cabbage.gif

http://www.stellaandtrixie.com/portraits/cabbage%20face%20gif.gif

http://www.mistershape.com/blog/images/plaincert.gif

http://www.mackenzie-hanson.co.uk/graphics/baby/baby_cabbage_patch.gif

http://www.bellybytes.com/recipes/images/cabbage.gif

this might be good if we trade for Troy Murphy:

http://www.personalmd.com/images/irish_cabbage_031700.gif

and my personal favorite:

http://atomikart.com/myspacepics/cabbage.gif

CableKC
08-01-2006, 01:36 PM
Would you rather they bring in exactly the number of guys they need, thus putting them in no position to cut or move anyone who turns out not to be what they hoped?

Sorry...to clarify....I'm hoping that there is "rhyme & reason" to the signings and trades that they are making now and that it is part of a "grand scheme" that TPTB has in place.....instead of a bunch of "what appears to be" random moves that they make now that will be sorted out in training camp.

However....when it comes to the 14th and 15th spots on the roster, I guess it is plausible that this may become a huge "Battle Royale" to see who will have the right to sit at the very end of the bench.

In one corner.....Greene Vs. Snap....to see who will get the right to play next to or behind Darrell.

In the other corner....it would be Powell Vs. Marshall vs. ( maybe ) Pollard for the last remaining spot on the roster to sit at the end of the Frontcourt Bench.

But that...again...implies to me...and maybe even to "John Q Public"...that TPTB have no clear cut offseason plan to truly remake the roster....but as I suggested before....that they have a "Sign Harrington and then throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" offseason plan.

Kegboy
08-01-2006, 02:04 PM
http://atomikart.com/myspacepics/cabbage.gif

I don't know whether to laugh or run away screaming.

SycamoreKen
08-01-2006, 02:22 PM
http://atomikart.com/myspacepics/cabbage.gif

Rat needs to put this head on the body that is in naptown's avatar. And i don't mean Grangers.

ABADays
08-01-2006, 04:00 PM
Peck's posts are like watching your favorite TV show - even has a summer hiatus :laugh:

When I have some time I want to make some comments and give a perspective from 6,000 miles away. But today ain't that day.

Glad to see you back Peck.

Peck
08-01-2006, 04:22 PM
Remember what Bird was doing during the Artest fiasco last year? Some of the players do too, and they didn't care for it. So in the end some of this may be a moot point if Larry doesn't step up his involvement with the CURRENT players.

Also, there is a big problem here. They didn't make it JO's team. Al is it, and he's not here yet. No Bonzi, apparently no consideration of him according to DW at one point.

Baston is a SarJas guy. JO and Jack got into it big time 2 seasons ago right around the playoffs, and had to clear the air in the press the next day.

Pollard is what he seems based on seeing him away from the court. And based on his interaction with Harrison I'd say that at least some of the players actually find him fun to be around. He's not "flakey", he's smart and sarcastic and willing to goof around, but also a serious player too. He seems liked by the players to me.


I think you are looking too hard at some of this, and moreso considering that we know the roster is not yet set. Al is yet to join them and at this point several players will have to be cut. On top of this DW/LB have mentioned the idea of other positions yet to be filled (a shooter, a big).

Something seems to be brewing as though the team expects to move several players for one, or they just don't mind spending cash to take a look at a few guys.


But the "culture" that had to be changed wasn't hip-hop or JO's clique or any of that. The culture was one of losing and justifying it by feeling sorry for themselves, about finger pointing and blame and bitterness.

That's not the same as "a guy" being bad, that's the general vibe losing track of things after Ron and the brawl and the injuries.

So you attack that with energy guys who just want a chance and will work through anything, plus a vet or 2 that come from a positive team and have a strong positive/smart attitude. Doesn't mean you don't want your main guys to not do the work, you just recognize that they need some guidance and examples, both in age/wisdom and in youthful exhuberance and energy.


BTW, some of those are veggies you :censored:
:tongue:

That's why my thoughts are often odd.:D ;)

blanket
08-01-2006, 04:30 PM
However the downside is this. If the team fails again & it is due to lack of lockeroom cohesion or lack of leadership I think we will see J.O. take that player option & walk away with the blessing of the Pacers. They may try a sign & trade but who knows.

It seems pretty unlikely to me that JO would opt out of the last three years of a contract that pays him $19.7M, $21.3M, and $22.9M. No one else is going to give him a deal approaching that; besides, he'd only have the teams that are under the cap next summer to chose from. And as far as a S&T goes, why would he opt out only to be sent out in a S&T? He surely wouldn't get a better contract out of it, so he'd be better off not opting out and instead agreeing to a trade next summer if things don't go well. DW has a record of treating his players well in trades by sending them to a place where they can succeed.

And if JO leaves in a trade next summer (and assuming we get his replacement this summer in Harrington), I won't consider that a "downside."


Jax, they probably tried very hard with Jax as well but the price either just wasn't right or they couldn't get anyone to take him. My guess is the former not the latter.

The summer isn't over yet. Bruno himself said he expects more moves over the coming months. No doubt any outgoing trades will center on attempting to move Jax.

LoneGranger33
08-01-2006, 04:44 PM
is anyone on this site a pacers fan?

Speed
08-01-2006, 04:54 PM
The summer isn't over yet. Bruno himself said he expects more moves over the coming months. No doubt any outgoing trades will center on attempting to move Jax.

Thing I always think is Donnie always buys low, sells high. Jalen, AD, Dale, AJ whether we rec'd value you can argue, but all were at almost the highest point in their career.

The opposite end holds true too, Not that I know anything, but I would've almost bet money he wouldn't have moved Tinsley or Jack, because of the same reasons listed previously....

I thought at the beginning of the offseason that it sucked that Zeke was put under control, because that was the only chance to get value for Tinsley. The only other interesting possibility for Jack was Cleveland with Mike Brown, but I would guess that just because Brown had to babysit him as an assistant here, doesn't mean he was fired up for a high maintenance guy for what they are building in Cleveland.

Last thing I also always think about with Jack and Tinsley is that they are seen as headaches around the league. Each team in the league already have their own headaches and they sure don't want ours.

Lastly, This was a very good post, btw, I too disagree with the Pollard observation. Even if he is only the mascot of the team and they don't respect him as a player, (which I don't think that is true, necessarily) it still wouldn't be a divisive force in the lockeroom it would be more of "oh there goes Pollard again, juggling pretend Pizzas in the pregame warm up dance with Hulk and AJ....."

Robertmto
08-01-2006, 05:29 PM
is anyone on this site a pacers fan?

NOPE

:devil:

Twes
08-01-2006, 08:40 PM
Peck,

First off I thought I'd give you a shout. It's been way too long. I saw yours and several other names from back in the day and had to stick my nose in to say hello.

You know, I think back to the night of the big brawl and I remember that night started with the Pacers taking it to the Pistons pretty good. I had the feeling they had as good a chance as anybody in the league that year and therefore every game carried the hopes and expectations of a championship run.

Obviously that all went away that night but I was in the arena the night they came home that first game and I saw as much heart from the 5 or 6 dressed players (kids) as anyone I'd seen for several years. We talk championships but heart goes a long way for me. Less whing and excuses and more busting ***.

In some ways it's kind of exciting with new hopes and the chance to build something new here. We're not just hoping for new and better results out of the same players like we did for several years in a row.

We're not just hoping for Riks feet to feel better or McKey to score or Bender to "break out".

On the other hand, the playoff runs are fading and it's tough to get psyched as a fan. I suppose the reality is it may be awhile before we see drama and intenisty that we've seen. You never know. You think you do but you don't always know. That's the magic of sport.

As always I didn't have much to add.

Glad to see the odd thoughts still flowing buddy.

Take care.

Twes


C

Unclebuck
08-01-2006, 10:34 PM
Well, I've been gone for three days and away from the computer, and maybe there is something wrong with me (I've gotten about 5 hours of sleep copmbined the last two nights) but I agree with almost every word Peck. In fact I can't really argue with anything.