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View Full Version : hawks lay out demands



jois4real
07-31-2006, 02:55 PM
i say do it so we can move on

we take edwards contract,3mill in cash.1st round pick

Ultimate Frisbee
07-31-2006, 03:06 PM
Wow, I'm not a stickler for punctuation or sentence structure.... but please try to make your posts a bit more understandable.

Spicoli
07-31-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm pretty sure I just saw Btown stumble into a liquor store looking for a drink.

btowncolt
07-31-2006, 03:09 PM
I'm pretty sure I just saw Btown stumble into a liquor store looking for a drink.

Oof. What a weekend.

Leisure Suit Larry
07-31-2006, 03:09 PM
I don't think it's a bad deal but I don't like how they think they are calling the shots here. Did they get the memo that he is a free agent?

redwillow
07-31-2006, 03:17 PM
The Hawks are being greedy IMO. How hard is it to be one of the worst teams in the league? Why start trying to make good trades now? They're probably trying to trade for Donnie Walsh too. :-p

jois4real
07-31-2006, 03:18 PM
my bad w confusion ,sorry

yeah they think they have the power thats for sure

Leisure Suit Larry
07-31-2006, 03:21 PM
I say we give them the TE, 3 million, and 2 second rounders or can we do that because we already gave a couple up this year (I know one was the Suns)?

Young
07-31-2006, 03:24 PM
Well the Hawks do have the power if Al wants to get more than the MLE. Because the Hawks can just say fine, you don't give us what we want than we will just let Al walk. But Al isn't going to want to play for the MLE.

Teams aren't flocking over him right now, only the Pacers and maybe still the Warriors. So unless some unknown team comes in here and trumps what we can offer we still have a good shot at Al.

Or maybe BK is using a negoating tactic, ask for a little more than what you would really take, that way you have room to negoiate and still get what you want.

Evan_The_Dude
07-31-2006, 03:59 PM
my bad w confusion ,sorry

yeah they think they have the power thats for sure

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0007WYFAW.01-A33H8MBYDKZYV4._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Destined4Greatness
07-31-2006, 04:08 PM
I wouldn't do it because Edwards is guaranteed so we would have to waive him or give up young talent for him. Edwards is a scrub, we don't know about Powell, Marshall, Greene, Snap.

Hicks
07-31-2006, 04:20 PM
I see Edwards as a non-issue. Yes it's guaranteed money, but it's an expiring contract, so you may as well cut him to keep one of the Dallas F's.

aero
07-31-2006, 04:31 PM
Al Harrington isnt worth a #1 pick, next year's draft is too stacked.

AL + 2 2nd round picks and maybe some cash yeah thats better but NOT a first rounder no sir

Robertmto
07-31-2006, 04:34 PM
Are the walls beginning to crumble??

blanket
07-31-2006, 04:36 PM
Al Harrington isnt worth a #1 pick, next year's draft is too stacked.

AL + 2 2nd round picks and maybe some cash yeah thats better but NOT a first rounder no sir

I don't think anyone's confirmed which year the draft pick is for. Perhaps all this worry over giving up a 2007 1st is over nothing. Maybe the Pacers are offering only a 2008, or 2009, etc., or perhaps it starts with next year's draft but the protection is, say, top 25 in 2007, lottery in 2008, and top 3 in 2009.

:whoknows:

Leisure Suit Larry
07-31-2006, 04:46 PM
No one has declared for next years draft either. I doubt Oden is in it.

Gamble
07-31-2006, 04:54 PM
Are the walls beginning to crumble??

Only in Washington.

Since86
07-31-2006, 04:57 PM
The Pacers won't be in a position to get Oden, so he's not the one who you'd worry about not getting.

The draft next year is going to produce a lot of good players, that are going to have impacts on teams, some the next year, some the year after, but most will be high caliber players. You can't miss the boat with those players, because there's a higher than normal chance that you can land a big time player with a pick out of the lottery.

The Hawks have to be asking for next years pick, because they currently don't have one. They're trying to get in on the stock pile as well.

I'm really hoping Donnie doesn't give in, and part ways with a first rounder. It doesn't look like that will happen, because these "demands" have been reported since the middle of last week, and if he was going to give in it would of happened, IMHO.

Speed
07-31-2006, 05:12 PM
man it would be great to draft someone at 17, next year to wait on them to get better and maybe with the best case scenario they could average 18 and 8 by the time they are 26, wow now that would be soooo lucky. Sorry not being smart, but lets be realistic here.


You can't guarantee drafting even second overall next year you would get that. Even if you could, you would likely have to wait on it. Al not being worth a 1st rounder, especially where the Pacers are drafting just is completely illogical.

jois4real
07-31-2006, 05:16 PM
i did watch summer leauge game dallas and seattle marshall and powell look really good mainly marshall he can get to the hoop aswell shoot the 3 think he wound up with 23 points

Robertmto
07-31-2006, 05:24 PM
Theres no way the Pacers give up on this, all their other moves this offseason have been banking on this going thru. The roster can't hold up without Al anymore.

PacerFreak31
07-31-2006, 05:37 PM
If for some odd reason we don't get AL I would be willing to bet that DW and LB have a plan B. We have way too much talent to trade that could get us someone on par with AL. Like someone else said in another post I think we will go after a big name player if we do or even if we don't get AL. Giving up nothing for all would be huge because it would help us to get maybe one more big name. I think that player will be a great shooting gaurd...

Leisure Suit Larry
07-31-2006, 05:45 PM
i did watch summer leauge game dallas and seattle marshall and powell look really good mainly marshall he can get to the hoop aswell shoot the 3 think he wound up with 23 points

I was watching that too. I hope we keep them.

blanket
07-31-2006, 05:47 PM
If for some odd reason we don't get AL I would be willing to bet that DW and LB have a plan B.

That would have to be Plan C, since they already said Al was plan B after losing Peja.

:D

Robertmto
07-31-2006, 05:50 PM
How will adding a "superstar" SG help? By pissign Jax off more? By taking the rooks mins? By forcing the front line to stay paper thin?

Naptown_Seth
07-31-2006, 10:00 PM
Give up?

Okay, let's say that the Pacers walk from the table to plan B. WTF does Atlanta do with Al? He's a FA! They don't want to resign him. ATL has 3 options, get what they can from Indy if they want to stay cheap, or take on a bunch of contracts from Golden State that they don't want, or lose Al for nothing, in which case he would 100% go to Indy and just keep his MLE as short as possible to still hit the FA market with a full raise available (he couldn't hit Indy for one MLE sason and then jump to 9m I mean).


The pick won't be a lottery pick unless they don't get Al and the rest of the guys flop and there is no plan B. So its not a brutal loss. But I wouldn't give it to them AND help them out of the Edwards situation. Give them a 2008 1st (protected) if you have to come off the $3m and lose another $1m with Edwards.



BTW, just to clarify since LSLarry mentioned it in this way, Atlanta does NOT GET the TE. The Pacers use it to take on a contract, and that's it. They get the rights to that contract by trading for it (picks, cash, player), but the TE is not passed along to the new team.

TE's are created by trades in which you don't receive back the same amount of salary that you gave up. Normally this can't happen because the other team is over the cap and MUST send salary back that matches what you sent (within 25%), but teams like OKC or ATL that are under don't have to meet that requirement. That's when a TE is created, which simply says the Pacers still have the right to fill a contract void equal to what they sent out in the first place (but aren't obligated to).

That void can not be added to other exceptions or player contracts to create a bigger contract space. The void is filled and at that point it ends. Or it expires after a year, or it is partially filled now and some of it is remains available for later as before.

rexnom
07-31-2006, 10:09 PM
The pick won't be a lottery pick unless they don't get Al and the rest of the guys flop and there is no plan B. So its not a brutal loss. But I wouldn't give it to them AND help them out of the Edwards situation. Give them a 2008 1st (protected) if you have to come off the $3m and lose another $1m with Edwards.
I think this is what they are debating right now. I agree with Since86's assessment too. I don't want to give up picks, especially not now. Make no mistake, we are rebuilding, and giving up picks in what are probably going to be two stacked drafts is probably not the way to go. I blame the Suns for taking the Hawks' first-rounders.

Since86
08-01-2006, 09:49 AM
man it would be great to draft someone at 17, next year to wait on them to get better and maybe with the best case scenario they could average 18 and 8 by the time they are 26, wow now that would be soooo lucky. Sorry not being smart, but lets be realistic here.


You can't guarantee drafting even second overall next year you would get that. Even if you could, you would likely have to wait on it. Al not being worth a 1st rounder, especially where the Pacers are drafting just is completely illogical.

What's the point of even drafting any player then?

You don't use a draft to build a "now" team, a draft is for the future. If you can't understand that one, then I guess you're just lost.

Al isn't going to a savior for this team by any means. No way near a finals team, maybe a second round team, but that's it.

You can't find any suitors for Jax or Tinsley, so why not try to land their replacement in a draft?

Oh, because it's illogical to think of the future, just to land a player that's going to bump your best player from his spot and lose a pick in one of the deepest projected drafts ever. :rolleyes:

PacerMan
08-01-2006, 09:55 AM
No one has declared for next years draft either. I doubt Oden is in it.

Bet you a million bucks he is.

SoupIsGood
08-01-2006, 10:00 AM
I think this is what they are debating right now. I agree with Since86's assessment too. I don't want to give up picks, especially not now. Make no mistake, we are rebuilding, and giving up picks in what are probably going to be two stacked drafts is probably not the way to go. I blame the Suns for taking the Hawks' first-rounders.

Agreed.

diamonddave00
08-01-2006, 11:36 AM
Yes the Pacers are rebuilding , but some seem to think Al Harrington is old. At 26 , he is1 year older than Daniels , and only 2 years older than White and Harrison.

Its not as if this team is old even JO, Jackson and Tinsley are only 28.

Hell Jordan himself never won his first ring till he was 28.

I believe Bird looks at Williams as a lottery pick in the 2007 draft if he were there. White is basicly a late 1st rounder this year.

The pick should be lottery protected , even with a deep draft if next years turns out to be the pick would still only be in the 15-20 range a spot which is usually a crap shoot. To me Al Harrington is a safer bet than a pick at that spot.

I like the direction Bird and Walsh are going with the youth and athletism , but its not like Harrington is on his last legs at 26. I can see JO,Al and Danny being productive together for 5-7 years.

As for dealing 2nd rounders the Pacers currently have no 2nd round picks next season according to Mark Monteith.

Naptown_Seth
08-01-2006, 03:23 PM
I believe Bird looks at Williams as a lottery pick in the 2007 draft if he were there. White is basicly a late 1st rounder this year.
I agree DD. I also agree about Al's age.

That's why I ran out the "what if Al took a 3 year MLE and then signed a new FA deal for 6 years" comparison to if he took the 7.6 now and then got another 3 year deal after that - showing that the MLE angle could end up paying him better, specifically because he would get back out on the FA market before he's 30.

The team has a ton of youth and a huge window. Fans, like the players, have let the bad luck and bad mood overcome them and have become too pessimistic. It's not all bright skies right now, but its not doom and gloom either.

The Pacers gave up their 2nd round this year, the 2nd round from the Suns/JJ deal, and next year's 2nd round all for James White. I assume they have the 2008 2nd round pick. How far out can a pick be traded? Are only 2007 and 2008 picks technically tradeable right now?

Frank Slade
08-01-2006, 03:51 PM
How far out can a pick be traded? Are only 2007 and 2008 picks technically tradeable right now?

You can trade a draft pick up to five years from the current season.