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View Full Version : Assuming Al comes here, where does our frontcourt rank?



SoupIsGood
07-29-2006, 09:52 PM
This is a thread I was going to start once Al came here officially, but it is taking forever, and a recent post by Kegboy reminded me of this.

Where do you think our frontcourt ranks once Al comes?

O'Neal/Harrison
Harrington/Foster/Baston
Granger/Williams


I think it is easily one of the best in the league, but I'm not sure where it ranks league-wide.

Whaddya think?

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 09:56 PM
Could be the best starting frontcourt in the league. Probably the most talented,unless I'm forgetting something. There's not enough size, though. I wish we'd gotten Magloire so we could have had an interchangeable lineup going big or small without losing much.

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 09:56 PM
John Edwards! Don't forget John Edwards!!!

317Kim
07-29-2006, 09:57 PM
I agree. It's going to be one hell of sweet frontcourt! :D

SoupIsGood
07-29-2006, 09:59 PM
Could be the best starting frontcourt in the league. Probably the most talented,unless I'm forgetting something. There's not enough size, though. I wish we'd gotten Magloire so we could have had an interchangeable lineup going big or small without losing much.

:harrison:

:D

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 10:01 PM
:harrison:

:D

If only the refs and Rick didn't hate him with a passion. Size is no good if he's only on the floor five minutes.

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 10:11 PM
O'Neal/Mourning/Doleac
Haslem/Simeon
Posey/Walker

Mohammed/Davis
Wallace/McDyess
Prince

Wallace
Brown
Nocioni/Deng

Ilgaukas/Varejao
Gooden/Marshall
James

Bogut/Gadzuric
Villanueva/Smith/Skinner
Simmons

Kristic/Moore
Collins/Robinson
Jefferson

Brezec/Ely
Okafor/May
Wallace/Morrison

Yao/Mutombo
Howard
TMac/Battier

Elson/Butler/Oberto
Duncan/Horry
Bowen/Barry/Williams

Camby
Nene/Martin
Anthony/Najera

Okur/Collins
Boozer
Kirilenko/Harpring

Kaman/Rebraca
Brand/Davis
Thomas/Maggette

Stoudemire
Marion/Thomas
Diaw/Jones

Miller/Potepenko
Rahim/Thomas
Artest/Williamson

Shade
07-29-2006, 10:12 PM
O'Neal/Mourning/Doleac
Haslem/Simeon
Posey/Walker

Mohammed/Davis
Wallace/McDyess
Prince

Wallace
Brown
Nocioni/Deng

Ilgaukas/Varejao
Gooden/Marshall
James

Bogut/Gadzuric
Villanueva/Smith/Skinner
Simmons

Kristic/Moore
Collins/Robinson
Jefferson

Brezec/Ely
Okafor/May
Wallace/Morrison

Yao/Mutombo
Howard
TMac/Battier

Elson/Butler/Oberto
Duncan/Horry
Bowen/Barry/Williams

Camby
Nene/Martin
Anthony/Najera

Okur/Collins
Boozer
Kirilenko/Harpring

Kaman/Rebraca
Brand/Davis
Thomas/Maggette

Stoudemire
Marion/Thomas
Diaw/Jones

Miller/Potepenko
Rahim/Thomas
Artest/Williamson

Are you saying all those frontcourts are better, or are you just listing them for reference?

Tyrion
07-29-2006, 10:15 PM
If only he moved his feet and didn't play defense with his hands. Size is no good if he's only on the floor five minutes.

Fixed.;)

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 10:15 PM
Are you saying all those frontcourts are better, or are you just listing them for reference?

A little bit of both.

I guess I just need to get used to the fact that Al is this year's Second Coming.

Robertmto
07-29-2006, 10:15 PM
Haywood/Thomas/Blatche
Jamison/Songaila/Blatche
Jeffries/Hayes/Pecherov

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 10:17 PM
Haywood/Thomas/Blatche
Jamison/Songaila/Blatche
Jeffries/Hayes/Pecherov

I would of, but you're always trying to pass Haywood off on us. And Jeffries is not a Jed.., I mean Wizard, yet.

[edit] Eh, who am I kidding. You need more than one player in your frontcourt who's heard of playing D.

Robertmto
07-29-2006, 10:19 PM
I would of, but you're always trying to pass Haywood off on us. And Jeffries is not a Jed.., I mean Wizard, yet.

Haywood is a big body that I just don't want. lol

And Jeffries will be resigned

EDIT: Songaila and Jeffries both play D. And Thomas has his nights.

beast23
07-29-2006, 10:30 PM
I guess I just need to get used to the fact that Al is this year's Second Coming.Actually, he is. But for a different reason than you are referring.

Without Al, I think our attendance will take a bit hit next season. The Pacers didn't just acquire Al because he would be a nice addition to our frontcourt. They are acquiring him because the franchise desparately needs him because he was a passionate, energetic player, and he will help maintain the number of butts in the seats.

I think we may lost a little bit moving from Peja to Danny, at least the first year, anyway. But I also believe there will not be a big dropoff in going to Al at PF over formerly having JO at the position. Of course, there will be an absolutely huge improvement with JO at center versus either Jeff or David. And, I think that we will have much better mobility with these three guys than what we had last year, and our defense across the three positions will be quicker and better than last year.

I certainly don't rank JO/Al/Danny at the top of your list going into the season. But, as long as our overall team chemistry is somehow much improved, I think JO/Al/Danny have the potential to emerge as one of the best 5-6 trios in the league by the end of the season.

grace
07-29-2006, 10:38 PM
Without Al, I think our attendance will take a bit hit next season. The Pacers didn't just acquire Al because he would be a nice addition to our frontcourt. They are acquiring him because the franchise desparately needs him because he was a passionate, energetic player, and he will help maintain the number of butts in the seats.

If the only move had been to get Al maybe I'd go along with your thinking. Considering everything else that has gone on in addition to the pseudo Al thing I don't see attendance being any better.

Hicks
07-29-2006, 10:40 PM
Regardless of where it ranks, it's pretty damn good. We go from having a center weakness to having one of the best centers in the league with JO being there. Or if you think he's been C all along, then we upgraded our PF spot. One or the other.

If you have Jeff Foster as your backup bigman, you're doing good.

Sollozzo
07-29-2006, 11:02 PM
It's much improved, but the Heat's, Pistons', Bulls' and Cavs' are all still better.

Coincidentally, they are all better teams overall than the Pacers as well.

Hicks
07-29-2006, 11:05 PM
It's much improved, but the Heat's, Pistons', Bulls' and Cavs' are all still better.

Coincidentally, they are all better teams overall than the Pacers as well.

You think Wallace and Brown (or Nocioni) is better than JO and Al? I don't. Nor do I think Big Z + Drew Gooden is better. Hell, now that it's Rasheed and Nazr instead of Wallacex2, we're doing pretty good their too.

Even in Miami, it's just Haslem next to the Big Guy.

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 11:07 PM
You think Wallace and Brown (or Nocioni) is better than JO and Al? I don't. Nor do I think Big Z + Drew Gooden is better. Hell, now that it's Rasheed and Nazr instead of Wallacex2, we're doing pretty good their too.

Even in Miami, it's just Haslem next to the Big Guy.

Remember Soup wants to include the 3, so we're talking about LBJ where Cleveland is concerned. And there was somebody at the party who was saying Ben was gonna win MVP. Who was it?

grace
07-29-2006, 11:08 PM
You think Wallace and Brown (or Nocioni) is better than JO and Al?

I do. I don't really know about Brown, but Noc definitely.


Even in Miami, it's just Haslem next to the Big Guy.

That was good enough to win a title wasn't it?

Shade
07-29-2006, 11:15 PM
That was good enough to win a title wasn't it?

Only because of who they have in the backcourt...

Hicks
07-29-2006, 11:16 PM
I do. I don't really know about Brown, but Noc definitely.



That was good enough to win a title wasn't it?

They won the title. So I guess that means they have the best everything then?

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 11:19 PM
They won the title. So I guess that means they have the best everything then?

Well, they have the best center backed up by the 11th best center, so yeah, they're pretty good.

Sollozzo
07-29-2006, 11:19 PM
You think Wallace and Brown (or Nocioni) is better than JO and Al? I don't. Nor do I think Big Z + Drew Gooden is better. Hell, now that it's Rasheed and Nazr instead of Wallacex2, we're doing pretty good their too.

Even in Miami, it's just Haslem next to the Big Guy.



It's not just the Big Guy its the Big GUYS. You've completely ignored the fact that Alonzo Mourning plays huge minutes for the Heat and makes a major impact. Game 6 of the finals, Zo delivered. When Shaq gets a rest, Zo comes in with a ton of energy. The fact that they have Shaq/Zo and the fact that they are the reigning champs makes their frontcourt easily the best.

As Kegboy stated, Soup included the SF. Walker/Posey is not a bad combo to have, ended up working well.

If you compare Z/Goodon to JO/Harrington, then yes the Pacers come out on top. However, using Soup's criteria, you have to include Lebron and Danny, thus the Cavs easily come out on top.

The Pistons frontcourt strength will depend on how well Muhommad plays.

If Noccioni plays anything like he did against the Heat, then the Bulls will be really tough up front. Thankfully for the Pacers, JO always seemed to have his way with Ben. We'll see how PJ Brown can do on him. Keep in mind that the Bulls gave the Heat as much trouble, if not more, than anyone else.

grace
07-29-2006, 11:22 PM
They won the title. So I guess that means they have the best everything then?

Yes. That's why when the pundits are picking who will win the title they say "The road to the title goes through {insert name of defending champion}."

Hicks
07-29-2006, 11:26 PM
Antoine Walker is the best Small Forward? Jason Williams is the best PG? Haslem the best PF?

DisplacedKnick
07-29-2006, 11:27 PM
This is a thread I was going to start once Al came here officially, but it is taking forever, and a recent post by Kegboy reminded me of this.

Where do you think our frontcourt ranks once Al comes?

O'Neal/Harrison
Harrington/Foster/Baston
Granger/Williams


I think it is easily one of the best in the league, but I'm not sure where it ranks league-wide.

Whaddya think?

You've got a center who's probably top-5 in the league, a mid-level PF and a mid-level SF (for now - he could get better within a year or two).

Somewhere in the middle - probably leaning toward the upper end. Maybe 10th or 12th best but I'm not gonna rank all the teams above Indy. When you have combos like Yao/T-Mac, Z/Gooden/Lebron, Odom/Kobe, etc. you aren't close to the top.

grace
07-29-2006, 11:32 PM
Antoine Walker is the best Small Forward? Jason Williams is the best PG? Haslem the best PF?

Show me a team that has the best at every possition.

Sollozzo
07-29-2006, 11:56 PM
Antoine Walker is the best Small Forward? Jason Williams is the best PG? Haslem the best PF?



Well, like Grace stated, it would be impossible for a title team to have the best players at every position. Name one team in history that has had the best player at every position top to bottom.

Was Luc Longley the best center? No way.

Was Derrick Fisher the best point guard? Not even close

You can't have an allstar team out there.

The Heat easily have the best inside combo in the league in Shaq/ZO and a top 3 perimeter player in Wade. Their role players fitted in perfectly this year (I'm not suprised, I never understood why anyone thought that going from a Damon Jones/Eddie Jones/Rasul Butler/Dooling core to a Payton/JWill/Posey/Walker one was neccessarily a bad thing).

Miami won the title with Shaquille O'neal having his lowest PPG series in his career. That's pretty scary.

Hicks, are you suggesting that the Pacers can compete with the Heat in a playoff series? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm asking honestly.

Hicks
07-30-2006, 12:01 AM
Only if they're done acting like children. I know what most people's answers to that will be, but I'm not as convinced it's a guarantee as most.

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:21 AM
Keg, thanks for posting those. I would put the Pacers anywhere from top 5 to 8.

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:23 AM
The Heat easily have the best inside combo in the league in Shaq/ZO

Brand and Kaman would have something to say about that.


It's not just the Big Guy its the Big GUYS. You've completely ignored the fact that Alonzo Mourning plays huge minutes for the Heat and makes a major impact.

Zo averaged 10 minutes for the playoffs.


At this point in their careers, I would rather have Jermaine starting at center than the other O'Neal. Shaq is old and washed up, and will only be worse next season. He'll be 35 by the time the playoffs start.

But lets say we call that comparison even. It then becomes Al Harrington, Danny Granger, David Harrison, and Jeff Foster against Mourning, Haslem, Posey and Walker.

I dunno. I counted Miami as one of the frontcourts better than us, but they aren't exactly blowing us away.

vapacersfan
07-30-2006, 12:25 AM
It doesnt matter how good our backcourt is if our frontcourt isnt able to stay healthy.

Granted Jay wil be here in 10 days to argue our backcourt got better by AJ not being there to take possesions away from JO, but even if we had the best frontcourt in the NBA (we dont) we still have a lot of work to do on our backcourt

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:25 AM
Show me a team that has the best at every possition.

You just agreed that Miami had the best everything....

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:26 AM
It doesnt matter how good our backcourt is if our frontcourt isnt able to stay healthy.



:confused:

Did you mean to switch those around?

Robertmto
07-30-2006, 12:28 AM
Soup what are those frontcourts ahead of the Pacers?

Sollozzo
07-30-2006, 12:35 AM
Brand and Kaman would have something to say about that.


Brand and Kaman over what the Heat have? :laugh:

I probably phrased that wrong, I should have said that Shaq/Zo is the best center rotation in the league. (which it is, by a loooooooong shot)

Miami frontcourt:

Shaq/Zo
Haslem
Walker/Posey.

I'd take that over what the Clipps, or anyone else, have anyday......... but thats just me.

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:48 AM
Soup what are those frontcourts ahead of the Pacers?

I think the Suns, Rockets, Cavs, and Clips were clearly better.

Also, WTF is wrong with Houston. They have two players as great as Yao and Me-Mac, and the best PF they can muster is friggin Howard?? I almost wish we would loan them Jeff Foster

Sollozzo
07-30-2006, 12:54 AM
Brand and Kaman would have something to say about that.



Zo averaged 10 minutes for the playoffs.


At this point in their careers, I would rather have Jermaine starting at center than the other O'Neal. Shaq is old and washed up, and will only be worse next season. He'll be 35 by the time the playoffs start.

But lets say we call that comparison even. It then becomes Al Harrington, Danny Granger, David Harrison, and Jeff Foster against Mourning, Haslem, Posey and Walker.

I dunno. I counted Miami as one of the frontcourts better than us, but they aren't exactly blowing us away.


Mourning plays huge minutes when Shaq is on the bench. When Shaq was out at the beginning of the year, Mourning stepped in and did a fine job filling in. He made huge plays in game 6. No team has a backup center on his level.

Shaq is on the downside of his career, that's obvious. The days of him dominating you for points consistantly are over. Shaq passes brilliantly out of the paint to guys like Posey and Walker. Shaq can still dominate a game here and there. What did he have against Detroit in game 6? Something like 28 and 16? Game 6 against Chicago? 30 and 20 I believe. He can't do it every game, but he does it enough to make a difference.

That's all Miami needs from them. They need Shaq to consistantly hold the paint down and dominate a game here and there, and for Zo to provide a huge spark off of the bench.

Ok, even if you can convince yourself that our frontcourt is equal to Miami's, it really doesn't matter. Because when you look at the fact that they have DWADE, they are easily the superior team.

Don't you find it scary that Miami won the finals in 6 games with Shaq just averaging 14 points a game? Shows how great Wade is, and how all the parts fit in perfectly.

I made a post a couple of months ago saying that Miami will start to get in trouble once Shaq is in his late 30's, yet is still holding them up for 20 million a year. When he's on the last 2 years of his deal, he'll be 37 and 38. Zo will be gone. Wade will have to play out of his mind to lead them to a title then.

But I see them as the favorites in the east for the next 2 seasons.

LG33
07-30-2006, 12:57 AM
I think the Suns, Rockets, Cavs, and Clips were clearly better.

Also, WTF is wrong with Houston. They have two players as great as Yao and Me-Mac, and the best PF they can muster is friggin Howard?? I almost wish we would loan them Jeff Foster

their problem is both health of their two stars - both can't seem to stay on the court - and the fact that they are the only players on the team worth being paid, at least in my opinion...and the rafer alston for mike james trade wasn't a positive either...but now they have battier...he's kinda good?

we could probably get a 2007 first rounder (to replace our possible lost one) and give them any of our guys that we don't want, but they might be good if they stay healthy



and the heat - i think the problem with shaq has less to do with age and more to do with changed rules - THANK THE LORD

as regards best frontcourt...their guys are proven stars, unlike ours as of now
but...if granger can develop a shimmy-caliber dance move...we're in business

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 12:57 AM
Jeesh, let's not get caught up in worshiping the Heat. This thread is about the frontcourt; everybody knows that Wade is really good.

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 01:01 AM
But I see them as the favorites in the east for the next 2 seasons.

Just something about this - people like to toss this kind of thing out a lot, but favorites come and go pretty darn quickly. Just last year, I imagine many were saying Detroit would rule the East for years to come. The same might have even been said for San Antonio in the West.

Not really much of a point to this, just something I was thinking.

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 01:03 AM
their problem is both health of their two stars - both can't seem to stay on the court - and the fact that they are the only players on the team worth being paid, at least in my opinion...and the rafer alston for mike james trade wasn't a positive either...but now they have battier...he's kinda good?

we could probably get a 2007 first rounder (to replace our possible lost one) and give them any of our guys that we don't want, but they might be good if they stay healthy



and the heat - i think the problem with shaq has less to do with age and more to do with changed rules - THANK THE LORD

as regards best frontcourt...their guys are proven stars, unlike ours as of now
but...if granger can develop a shimmy-caliber dance move...we're in business

Yes, health is an issue. But, I'm still pretty high on the Rockets. They need to bring in a new PG and PF, but they don't have to be great players, just great fits. They could be really, really good.

Sollozzo
07-30-2006, 01:05 AM
Jeesh, let's not get caught up in worshiping the Heat. This thread is about the frontcourt; everybody knows that Wade is really good.



Sorry, I got a little off track.

As long as Tins/Jax is the starting backcourt, I doubt you'll see many threads devoted to where the Pacers backcourt ranks in the league.

Sollozzo
07-30-2006, 01:07 AM
Just something about this - people like to toss this kind of thing out a lot, but favorites come and go pretty darn quickly. Just last year, I imagine many were saying Detroit would rule the East for years to come. The same might have even been said for San Antonio in the West.

Not really much of a point to this, just something I was thinking.


No doubt, things never last as long as most believe they do. But just because a team gets knocked off one year doesn't mean they are finished. The Spurs have been legit title contenders since 1999. The Pistons would have been right up there again if Wallace hadn't bolted.

I'm just saying that as long as Shaq is good enough to still make a big difference, the Heat will be right there.

LG33
07-30-2006, 01:08 AM
Oh, most definitely...I like the Nuggets too, but neither team has been able to play consistent (not to mention health issues)...they might value a point guard of Tinsley's caliber if he proves he can stay healthy...but then again, if he stays on the court why would we want to move him? i guess what im trying to say is that our depth puts us in a good position to make a trade with them for a draft pick or two, which would be good for the 2007 draft if it is as deep as people are projecting...am i wrong?

SoupIsGood
07-30-2006, 01:11 AM
No doubt, things never last as long as most believe they do. But just because a team gets knocked off one year doesn't mean they are finished. The Spurs have been legit title contenders since 1999. The Pistons would have been right up there again if Wallace hadn't bolted.

I'm just saying that as long as Shaq is good enough to still make a big difference, the Heat will be right there.

No, the Spurs are defintely not finished. I almost didn't include them in my post because the Pistons are a much better example of how quickly things change. The Spurs are just some good luck and a few tweaks away from winning again.

spazzxb
07-30-2006, 02:13 AM
that and an absurd amount of bad calls and gift free throws.
Only because of who they have in the backcourt...

able
07-30-2006, 07:57 AM
Of course there's one snag in all this "reasoning" about front-courts (well 2 actually, not having signed Al is #1) which is: Does Rick & Co intent to play that way.

Who is to say the frontcourt will not be David/JO/Al or Jeff/JO/Al and Danny at SG?

Or Danny coming of the bench (6th man?) or Quis coming of the bench, I don't think that we should read it as law that JO is moving to C

Unclebuck
07-30-2006, 08:54 AM
I really don't know where the frontline will rank, but I think it has a chance to be pretty good, one of the best in the league. But I have to see it play a few games before I'll know

vapacersfan
07-30-2006, 10:58 AM
:confused:

Did you mean to switch those around?

Yeah, I meant to pull a Will Smith and "switch" them around.

grace
07-30-2006, 11:14 AM
You just agreed that Miami had the best everything....

They won. That's all that matters.

You can put together a team full of the best players but if they can't function as a team...(I'd steal the quote from Hoosiers if I could find it)

grace
07-30-2006, 11:15 AM
that and an absurd amount of bad calls and gift free throws.

I wondered how long it would take until someone brought that up. :rolleyes:

Los Angeles
07-30-2006, 11:23 AM
Nobody here has considered the X-factor: Carlisle.

With Carlisle coaching, nobody knows what the heck the frontline will be. (Either that or we DO know, and nobody wants to admit it.)

Hicks
07-30-2006, 01:19 PM
Of course there's one snag in all this "reasoning" about front-courts (well 2 actually, not having signed Al is #1) which is: Does Rick & Co intent to play that way.

Who is to say the frontcourt will not be David/JO/Al or Jeff/JO/Al and Danny at SG?

Or Danny coming of the bench (6th man?) or Quis coming of the bench, I don't think that we should read it as law that JO is moving to C

That is a concern of mine. I can easily see Rick starting Al/JO/Jeff up front (and with Jack at 2, not Danny).

Hicks
07-30-2006, 01:20 PM
I wondered how long it would take until someone brought that up. :rolleyes:

It's true (and so is the fact that they had Wade and Shaq).

Suaveness
07-30-2006, 01:35 PM
That is a concern of mine. I can easily see Rick starting Al/JO/Jeff up front (and with Jack at 2, not Danny).

I really want Marquis and Danny starting mroe than I want Al starting. But somehow, it may not happen...

Destined4Greatness
07-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Somewhere in the ranger of top 3-7. Until JO goes down. Then probably somewhere in 14-17 range.

BoomBaby31
07-30-2006, 06:39 PM
It looks undersized to me. Jo isn't good at C, and AL is a little undersized for fulltime PF. Granger is good but, (come'on guys we all know we like him) he is not a powerhouse or even close. If we start JO at C fulltime we are just hindering our star. This lineup is great for NBA live not real life basketball. (sorry :(..)

Knucklehead Warrior
07-31-2006, 01:30 PM
I guess I just need to get used to the fact that Al is this year's Second Coming.

Ahhhh yes. When Philly got CWebb they had a poll over there and I believe a majority of the fans who voted thought they were at least going to play in the ECF. About 22% I think even thought they would make it to the finals, if not win it all.

Alas they didn't make the playoffs. :laugh:
Perhaps we could use a little dose of reality as well.

:lurk:
Still waiting to hear how Maceo's going to save us this year.

PacerMan
07-31-2006, 04:21 PM
Mourning plays huge minutes when Shaq is on the bench. When Shaq was out at the beginning of the year, Mourning stepped in and did a fine job filling in. He made huge plays in game 6. No team has a backup center on his level.

Shaq is on the downside of his career, that's obvious. The days of him dominating you for points consistantly are over. Shaq passes brilliantly out of the paint to guys like Posey and Walker. Shaq can still dominate a game here and there. What did he have against Detroit in game 6? Something like 28 and 16? Game 6 against Chicago? 30 and 20 I believe. He can't do it every game, but he does it enough to make a difference.

That's all Miami needs from them. They need Shaq to consistantly hold the paint down and dominate a game here and there, and for Zo to provide a huge spark off of the bench.

Ok, even if you can convince yourself that our frontcourt is equal to Miami's, it really doesn't matter. Because when you look at the fact that they have DWADE, they are easily the superior team.

Don't you find it scary that Miami won the finals in 6 games with Shaq just averaging 14 points a game? Shows how great Wade is, and how all the parts fit in perfectly.

I made a post a couple of months ago saying that Miami will start to get in trouble once Shaq is in his late 30's, yet is still holding them up for 20 million a year. When he's on the last 2 years of his deal, he'll be 37 and 38. Zo will be gone. Wade will have to play out of his mind to lead them to a title then.

But I see them as the favorites in the east for the next 2 seasons.

Run three different fast, long, defensive minded guys playing at 110% effort all game long at Wade and we might have a chance.