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Destined4Greatness
07-29-2006, 05:38 PM
That so many people think that Jax is a horrible player.

Come on people use your brains, he a third scoring option or possibly a fourth. Thats been forced to be a First or second for the last 2 years. How the hell can you fault him for that. Hes a role player that has been forced to be an important cornerstone of this team because. Tinsley and JO can't stay out of doctors office. Artest sold his medication to school children.

Whats interesting is his stats when he was actually able to be a 3rd scoring option, 20.2 PPG with 43.4FG% Now that looks pretty damn good for a 3rd scoring option. And thats with going through a cold spell on his 3 pointers. Especially considering hes a scorer not a shooter thats really good. Heres a plus as well he plays pretty solid defense.

Its just amazing how different a role players stats look like when he is not forced to be the main guy.

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 05:44 PM
Thank you for proving that he's not good enough to do jack **** unless Ron and JO took all of the pressure off of him, carrying his ***. He's living proof that it's easy to mooch off of thetalent around you, but can't step up when the pressure's on.

He just sucks. He's not a good basketball player. I don't know why you don't just accept it.

SoupIsGood
07-29-2006, 05:52 PM
I don't care what option he is, he has always been hot-headed, turnover prone, and a low percentage shooter. And, he handles the rock like a grandpa would, with a stiff back. He's not that good.

spazzxb
07-29-2006, 06:00 PM
Thank you for proving that he's not good enough to do jack **** unless Ron and JO took all of the pressure off of him, carrying his ***. He's living proof that it's easy to mooch off of thetalent around you, but can't step up when the pressure's on.

He just sucks. He's not a good basketball player. I don't know why you don't just accept it.

thank you for demonstrating the mindset of your average Jackson hater which tends to be missing any real inteligent consideration. I mean if you read what you spew you will notice that you just stated Jackson sucks because he couldn't carry the team on his back. The man makes 6 million a year that is the salary of a key roleplayer not a franchise player. I am sorry but your miconception that we could build a team equivelent to an allstar team is quite humorous. Bring some depth next time.

Hicks
07-29-2006, 06:07 PM
Anyone who thinks he's NOT a good player is delusional. So is anyone who thinks he's worth the baggage.

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 06:08 PM
thank you for demonstrating the mindset of your average Jackson hater which tends to be missing any real inteligent consideration. I mean if you read what you spew you will notice that you just stated Jackson sucks because he couldn't carry the team on his back. The man makes 6 million a year that is the salary of a key roleplayer not a franchise player. I am sorry but your miconception that we could build a team equivelent to an allstar team is quite humorous. Bring some depth next time.

What's the matter? Can't defend him, so you put words in my mouth? I don't want him to carry the team. He can't function as the first, second, or third option. For his role he's useless. It doesn't matter what it is. He can't make shots on a consistent basis, handle the ball, rebound, or pass. He struggles no matter what "role" he's in.

How about you give some facts as to why he's so damn good instead of *****ing about what I write? Oh, that's right. You can't.

grace
07-29-2006, 06:13 PM
I can't see past what a pain in the *** he is.

Tom White
07-29-2006, 06:16 PM
You know, I would bet that I speak for more than just myself when I say that some of you guys ought to "take your arguement outside". Perhaps to RATS or RealGM.

It really gets tiresome to see all the flamethrowing on an otherwise terrific forum.

Hicks
07-29-2006, 06:16 PM
Threads like this demonstrate that some PD members need to work on showing general respect to one another. No one here is impressed when you try to "win" a heated argument the way some of you are. They are, however, noticing when people stay respectful even when they completely disagree.

CableKC
07-29-2006, 06:17 PM
For a SJax supporter.....the positives that you list for SJax far outweigh the negatives that we can list....whereas for most of us SJax haters....we would outweigh his negatives over his positives.

Although I would hope that this thread would foster constructive debate...given the dog days of summer....you would have as much of a chance of convincing the SJax haters that its better to keep him then you would be to convince us of the same for JONeal.

If Bird has a certain price tag associated with SJax and won't be able to move him in the offseason........all of us have to live with the negatives and postives that SJax brings to the court ( just like how I live with the negatives and positives of JONeal )...simply cuz we have no choice.

Let's just hope that his price tag isn't too high :rolleyes:

Lord Helmet
07-29-2006, 06:36 PM
Threads like this demonstrate that some PD members need to work on showing general respect to one another. No one here is impressed when you try to "win" a heated argument the way some of you are. They are, however, noticing when people stay respectful even when they completely disagree.
Yeah, I completely agree with this. I am fine with people not agreeing with me. But after I post my opinion and I get a nasty response, it makes this place look bad.

JayRedd
07-29-2006, 06:36 PM
The guy can play the game.

But what's he really giving you that Ricky Davis, Mo Pete, Jamal Crawford, Desmond Mason, Bobby Simmons and 10 other guys in this League can't?

He doesn't play D. He's not a sniper from three. He can't be counted on to create his own shot in crunchtime.

On that poll that's currently out there, he'll probably come in at around 15-18 best SG in the NBA. I'd say that a pretty accurate assessment.

So yes, he's not terrible, and is easilly a starting SG in this league. But given what's gone down over the last two years, he should not be our starting SG.

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 06:37 PM
You're all too soft.

Destined4Greatness
07-29-2006, 06:49 PM
The guy can play the game.

But what's he really giving you that Ricky Davis, Mo Pete, Jamal Crawford, Desmond Mason, Bobby Simmons and 10 other guys in this League can't?

<B>He doesn't play D. He's not a sniper from three. He can't be counted on to create his own shot in crunchtime. </B>

On that poll that's currently out there, he'll probably come in at around 15-18 best SG in the NBA. I'd say that a pretty accurate assessment.

So yes, he's not terrible, and is easilly a starting SG in this league. But given what's gone down over the last two years, he should not be our starting SG.

I don't know who you have been watching the last 2 years. But he has hit more crunchtime shots than anybody on the team the last 2 years. Well actually Granger might have more, but thats more of a compliment to how awesome Granger is. And to say Jax doesn't play D is like synonomous to "I don't watch the pacers." The dude held Lebron to his season low, and when he was allowed to focus on Vince and Vince alone, forced him to take bad perimeter shots while contested. He is far above average on D.

And if you have a top 15-18 SG, shouldn't you be happy with that, in a league with 30 teams?

Trader Joe
07-29-2006, 06:50 PM
I like Jack as a guy and as a third role player. He is a bit of a hothead and he doesn't make the decisions of the ball. That being said the man can hit an open three pointer and with Al and JO around that is something we desperately need. I am in no hurry to get rid of Jax, but I also would let him go for the right price.

Fireball Kid
07-29-2006, 07:09 PM
I think Stephen Jackson would be better off as the 4th option or a 6th man. I've been a Jackson hater. I'll admit that. I do think that he was put in a position where he had to do more than he was capable of because of all the injuries and Artest being traded, etc. Jackson takes part of the blame and Rick takes part of the blame.

I just hate it when he complains to the refs after every foul instead of getting back on defense. If he could just keep his mouth shut and just play within his role, than everything will be fine.

I just want the offense to be better when next season starts.

Destined4Greatness
07-29-2006, 07:11 PM
I like Jack as a guy and as a third role player. He is a bit of a hothead and he doesn't make the decisions of the ball. That being said the man can hit an open three pointer and with Al and JO around that is something we desperately need.<B> I am in no hurry to get rid of Jax, but I also would let him go for the right price.</B>

Totally agree but alot of people would ship him off for a second rounder. Now I am sorry that is just stupid. The odds are pathetic we could get anybody useful with it. Of course, we had James Jones who could have stepped in and done what Jack does, but didn't we regret trading him for a second rounder.

Coop
07-29-2006, 07:19 PM
I don't know who you have been watching the last 2 years. But he has hit more crunchtime shots than anybody on the team the last 2 years. Well actually Granger might have more, but thats more of a compliment to how awesome Granger is. And to say Jax doesn't play D is like synonomous to "I don't watch the pacers." The dude held Lebron to his season low, and when he was allowed to focus on Vince and Vince alone, forced him to take bad perimeter shots while contested. He is far above average on D.

And if you have a top 15-18 SG, shouldn't you be happy with that, in a league with 30 teams?

1. The only reason he has hit more "crunchtime" shots than anybody else on the team is because he is the one that jacks them all up. Once he gets the ball, he's going to hold it until it's time to shoot. I dont know how many times last year I saw him get the ball with 10-12 seconds left on the shot clock/game clock and he would hold it until about 3-4 seconds and then take some stupid shot. I could live with a play like that if he at least tried to get to the basket to draw a foul, but he never did it. He always took a shot that was at least 15-20 feet away from the basket.

2. Jack can be a good defender, but on most nights, he isn't. I thought that was pretty evident in the playoffs last year. It was obvious we needed someone to slow down Vince but yet he couldn't do it. We ended up having to put Granger on him and then Jack goes to the media saying he could have done a better job AFTER he had been scorched the whole game.

3. And no, I'm not happy with a top 15-18 SG. How many teams in the last 10 years have won a championship with an average SG? Only two. Both being the Spurs. The reason why they were able to do this is because they had so much other talent at other positions along with great team chemistry which we don't have. In 99 they had Robinson and Duncan (we definately dont have that) and in 03 they had Duncan and Parker with Jack contributing off the bench. Last I checked, we don't have anyone at the point as good as Parker and JO isn't on Duncans level (from 03).

96 Bulls- Jordan
97 Bulls- Jordan
98 Bulls- Jordan
99 Spurs- Elliot (1)
00 Lakers- Kobe
01 Lakers- Kobe
02 Lakers- Kobe
03 Spurs- Jack (2)
04 Pistons- Rip
05 Spurs- Manu
06 Heat- Wade

Does Jack have enough talent to be the starting SG on a championship team? Of course. Just look at 03. BUT, that was before he went to ATL and got the idea in his head that he was a star. I really don't have a problem with Jack staying, I just hope he changes his overall attitude towards the game. If he could stop arguing everytime something doesn't go his way and if he could scale back his bad shots, I'd be happy to keep him in Indiana. But, I have a feeling he won't be able to do that which is why I think he needs to be traded. My .02 cents. Flame Away...

spazzxb
07-29-2006, 07:19 PM
What's the matter? Can't defend him, so you put words in my mouth? I don't want him to carry the team. He can't function as the first, second, or third option. For his role he's useless. It doesn't matter what it is. He can't make shots on a consistent basis, handle the ball, rebound, or pass. He struggles no matter what "role" he's in.

How about you give some facts as to why he's so damn good instead of *****ing about what I write? Oh, that's right. You can't.

notice, i never said one thing about Jacksone being greast. I simply stated he isn't crap. So why don't you come up with one comment that needs defense instead of a bunch of statements of opinion that don't mean anything.

Destined4Greatness
07-29-2006, 07:25 PM
1. The only reason he has hit more "crunchtime" shots than anybody else on the team is because he is the one that jacks them all up. Once he gets the ball, he's going to hold it until it's time to shoot. I dont know how many times last year I saw him get the ball with 10-12 seconds left on the shot clock/game clock and he would hold it until about 3-4 seconds and then take some stupid shot. I could live with a play like that if he at least tried to get to the basket to draw a foul, but he never did it. He always took a shot that was at least 15-20 feet away from the basket.

2. Jack can be a good defender, but on most nights, he isn't. I thought that was pretty evident in the playoffs last year. It was obvious we needed someone to slow down Vince but yet he couldn't do it. We ended up having to put Granger on him and then Jack goes to the media saying he could have done a better job AFTER he had been scorched the whole game.

3. And no, I'm not happy with a top 15-18 SG. How many teams in the last 10 years have won a championship with an average SG? Only two. Both being the Spurs. The reason why they were able to do this is because they had so much other talent at other positions along with great team chemistry which we don't have. In 99 they had Robinson and Duncan (we definately dont have that) and in 03 they had Duncan and Parker with Jack contributing off the bench. Last I checked, we don't have anyone at the point as good as Parker and JO isn't on Duncans level (from 03).

96 Bulls- Jordan
97 Bulls- Jordan
98 Bulls- Jordan
99 Spurs- Elliot (1)
00 Lakers- Kobe
01 Lakers- Kobe
02 Lakers- Kobe
03 Spurs- Jack (2)
04 Pistons- Rip
05 Spurs- Manu
06 Heat- Wade

Spurs- Manu
Lakers- Kobe
Pistons- Rip
Heat- DWade
Bulls- Jordan

Oh bull, JO has taken more crunchtime shots than anybody on this roster per game he has played and hes missed them all. Jack has not taken them all . You talk about how many times Jack held the ball for 10 seconds, what about JO he does the same thing then misses or Trips like in the 05 playoffs game six.

And I don't know what the hell you are talking about the 2 games where Jack guarded Vince and Vince alone, he shot like 30% from teh field. The games where he had to try and cover both RJ and Vince whenever one got hot, he did poorly. But excuse me if nobody is going to fault JO for allowing their front court to look like all-stars. Can you really blame Jackson for letting all-stars look like all-stars.

And don't even bring up championship contenders, we aren't one so it doesn't matter. And yeah most championship contenders have an elite SG and a Solid Big man. So maybe we should ship out Jax and JO for a Elite SG and a solid Big man.

There is such a double standard here its pathetic. JO can do whatever and be right and be a god on the court, and Jax can do no right.

Coop
07-29-2006, 07:29 PM
There is such a double standard here its pathetic. JO can do whatever and be right and be a god on the court, and Jax can do no right.

Your point about JO holding the ball like Jack does is so far off it's not even funny. JO rarely even got the ball with 10 seconds left on the clock. They always waited until 6-7 seconds before they gave Jermaine the ball. Granted, he made a lot of bad decisions but at least he wasn't sitting there like a ice sculpture waiting for the clock to run down.

BTW, so much for that 30% eh?

First two games:

12-33 fg
12-20 fg
------
24-53

=45.3%

And the point about not being championship contenders. You're right, but neither are all those other teams from the past ten years if you take their SG away. If we added a top SG, then we're right in the hunt. So yes, it does matter if you have an only average starting shooting guard.

Trader Joe
07-29-2006, 07:34 PM
Totally agree but alot of people would ship him off for a second rounder. Now I am sorry that is just stupid. The odds are pathetic we could get anybody useful with it. Of course, we had James Jones who could have stepped in and done what Jack does, but didn't we regret trading him for a second rounder.

Trading Jack for a second rounder would be a bad idea.

Jay Ohh
07-29-2006, 07:38 PM
notice, i never said one thing about Jacksone being greast. I simply stated he isn't crap. So why don't you come up with one comment that needs defense instead of a bunch of statements of opinion that don't mean anything.

Yes, you never said "Jacksone" is "greast". Yet you never said how he isn't crap either. I don't need to give facts as to how streaky he is. Take a look at the boxscores this year. He's not reliable, and that's exactly what we need. Someone to rely on, so JO isn't the only one having to score 20 every night. A second scorer, which is what we're trying to get in Al. Do you know why we're doing this? Because stephen Jackson can't handle it.Just like he can't handle any role given on this team.

All that matters to me is that he's crap here, and what he does for this Pacers team. He's turnover prone, argues with the refs, can't handle the ball, and can't score on a consistent basis. I can only judge what I've seen. And what I've seen of him were his past 82 games this season. I wasn't impressed.

aceace
07-29-2006, 09:21 PM
The guy can play the game.

But what's he really giving you that Ricky Davis, Mo Pete, Jamal Crawford, Desmond Mason, Bobby Simmons and 10 other guys in this League can't?

He doesn't play D. He's not a sniper from three. He can't be counted on to create his own shot in crunchtime.

On that poll that's currently out there, he'll probably come in at around 15-18 best SG in the NBA. I'd say that a pretty accurate assessment.

So yes, he's not terrible, and is easilly a starting SG in this league. But given what's gone down over the last two years, he should not be our starting SG.I agree with everything but the defensive (avg. D) part. I would put him at about 15th best. I also think he is the wrong guy to be taking our last second shots.

Anthem
07-29-2006, 11:28 PM
You know, I would bet that I speak for more than just myself when I say that some of you guys ought to "take your arguement outside". Perhaps to RATS or RealGM.

It really gets tiresome to see all the flamethrowing on an otherwise terrific forum.
I can go with that.

You should post more, Tom.

CableKC
07-30-2006, 01:29 AM
Given our likely rotations this upcoming season:

When SJax is on the floor as the SG with Granger, Harrington and JONeal.....where would SJax fall on the "scoring Totem poll"?

When SJax is on the floor as the SF with Marquis, Harrington and JONeal.....where would SJax fall on the "scoring Totem poll"?

To me...it just comes down to SJax understanding and accepting his role on the team.

If SJax is able to recognize when to step back and to let things come to him as a more reliable #3 option ( like when Harrington clearly is owning the guy "offensively" that is covering him ) but also realize when he should step up to be #2 scoring option ( such as when JONeal, Harrington or the rest of the team becomes "offensively challenged" ) ....then I would find a way to "hate him" less.

Also...one more thing...he has to be able to recognize when he isn't hitting shots....that he shouldn't try "to shoot his way out of the proverbial barrel". He should dish it so someone or drive to the hoop to draw the foul.

spazzxb
07-30-2006, 02:04 AM
Yes, you never said "Jacksone" is "greast". Yet you never said how he isn't crap either. I don't need to give facts as to how streaky he is. Take a look at the boxscores this year. He's not reliable, and that's exactly what we need. Someone to rely on, so JO isn't the only one having to score 20 every night. A second scorer, which is what we're trying to get in Al. Do you know why we're doing this? Because stephen Jackson can't handle it.Just like he can't handle any role given on this team.

All that matters to me is that he's crap here, and what he does for this Pacers team. He's turnover prone, argues with the refs, can't handle the ball, and can't score on a consistent basis. I can only judge what I've seen. And what I've seen of him were his past 82 games this season. I wasn't impressed.

So now you have resorted to discrediting through attacking my typing (classy). Jackson has been a starter for two years, this means our coaching staff believed he was the best option we had. Heck for alot of the year Jackson was the best player in the lineup (ignoring Granger). if you want some logical explanations as to why getting rid of jackson for nothing (which the haters have been sceeming for) is an idiotic move. who do you want to replace Jack that makes anything close to his salary (not to mention is available). Just because a player isn't wade doesn't make them crap. Actually there isn't a starter in this league who is crap.
Crappy basketball players have trouble getting on the court at the Y. You calling jack crap is like me calling you a crap poster because your not a best selling author. This is the last I will respond to you in this thread since you obviously are very closed minded and won't even consider the idea that the people who pay, start, and rely on Jack at times think he is alot better than you do. The only good thing I can say about what you have written is at least you haven't tried to say your opinion is the opinion of all pacers fans (like some resort to). One person in this thread recently tried to state his opinion was the opinion of the citzens of indiana.

Jay Ohh
07-30-2006, 02:38 AM
I wouldn't trade Jackson for a second rounder. That would be a terrible move. He would have to suck a lot worse for me to give him up for that. I just acknowledge how expendable he is as a basketball player now that we have James White and Marquis Daniels. Luckily for him, he's probably going to get another season since he's one of our only players who can make threes.I'd trade him for some decent value, considering he's not worth what we're paying him since he doesn't even show up on some nights. He's on the floor, but his mind is somewhere else, which actually hurts us.

He's really not that bad of a player. I just can't stand the way he plays.

burnzone
07-30-2006, 03:41 AM
I personally think Stephen Jackson is a really good player, he can drive to the basket, is actually a good passer to a cutting teammate, can shoot the lights out when he's on, and can rebound very well for a shooting guard. He also has good size for his position, 6'8", 220, is athletic, and runs the floor well, definitely plays through injury, which most of the rest of the team couldn't seem to do, other than J.O. and Granger.

Unfortunately all of that also has to be considered with the main fact that he seems to always stay back and argue with the refs, while the man he's supposed to be guarding is running free down the floor for an uncontested layup.

And then the thing I would see that I would say is the chemistry issue, are the incidents during last season and some from the season before, where he got into it with teammates and coaches on the sidelines, and in the huddle.

Most of these occasions were when he was pulled from the game, after a bad play, which I can understand his passion, and wanting to stay on the floor, but out of anyone, you should not argue and get into it with your teammates or coaches, that is always detrimental to the team.

If his shot isn't falling, if he would just focus on playing defense, rebounding, passing, attempting to get to the rim and earn free throws, and also not complaining to the refs at all, & just play, I'd have no problems with him at all.

And then also when he gets heated, or emotional on the court, is when he tends to break plays, and go 'iso' on his own, his shot becomes bery streaky, and that usually turns out bad. Plus, if he's emotional, I've seen him miss a few clutch free throws we could have used.

Then, from the brawl incident, unfortuantely even though he says he was getting his teammates' back, video evidence clearly showed all of us that he is that his body language during that entire incident was agressive, and negative, as opposed to the peacemaker role, and only aggravated the incident further. And that gave him the reputation that I think causes some people to say he's a hothead, and deservedly so.

And also, in some other discussions aboout aspects of Jackson, or J.O. I've heard at times, I will say that I personally have no problem at all with anything players do off the court, as far as clothing, or jewlery they wear, or if they frequent night clubs, or even what kind of car they drive.

What I do care about in their free time, is that they don't do anything while in public that would get them in trouble, hurt, or look bad on them, or their family, this franchise, or the city of Indianapolis.

And mostly I mean, I don't care if they go clubbing, as long as they're not there until 5am, and have themselves in a situation where there's drugs, a fight, or weapons drawn, because that would be some serious wrong place, wrong time stuff there.

I just want them to conduct themselves on the court as professionals, leave the refs alone, and for me personally, that part does include J.O., and David Harrison, and Jamaal, so I'm definitely not trying to single out Jack on that one.

And then, be a good teammate, if they're pissed and need to b**ch at someone, they should save it for someone other than their teammates, and coaches, because you need them, and they need you.

Unfortunately with Stephen Jackson, I feel like he is in the negative on all those things I mentioned above. Yes, he's not the only one to gripe at the refs all the time, but the entire team needs to work on that issue, not just Jack.

Maybe he will be back next year, if he is, I hope he can get some of those things under control, and if he's not here, I'll hope that Marquis, and James white can man the SG spot adequately. If not, I won't miss any of those negative's he brought to the table at times.

JayRedd
07-30-2006, 12:48 PM
And to say Jax doesn't play D is like synonomous to "I don't watch the pacers." The dude held Lebron to his season low, and when he was allowed to focus on Vince and Vince alone, forced him to take bad perimeter shots while contested. He is far above average on D.

And if you have a top 15-18 SG, shouldn't you be happy with that, in a league with 30 teams?

I never said he CAN'T play D. He has the tools to be a good on the ball defender. Not lockdown, but he has the lateral quickness and seems to know how to stay in front of ballhandlers. He just DOESN't always do it, depending on his mood/what day it is.

But I expect lateral quickness out of any good athlete. And I really have never seen a lot of evidence that he really understands team defensive strategy. He doesn't rotate well. I've seen him exploited by pick and rolls more often than not. He chooses the wrong way to go on screens very often. He doesn't help and recover. He doesn't match up well in transition. I've never seen him play good helpside D. Or double the post/dig effectively.

He's just not a complete defender. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Not terrible. Not good. Simply average. And this will only get worse as he loses the athletic ability/quickness he relies on to make himself an average defender.

There's a lot more to defining a good defensive player than to look at how many points the guy he's guarding scores.

OTD
07-30-2006, 12:55 PM
Having talked to some on the Spurs board, When Jax would start to get out control, Pop would pull him, and would not argue with him. I for one think Rick should get some backbone and be the boss. They also said that Jax would also admit that He needed some one to keep him stright. Jax can be a very good player. But someone has to ride herd on him

JayRedd
07-30-2006, 12:59 PM
I don't know who you have been watching the last 2 years. But he has hit more crunchtime shots than anybody on the team the last 2 years.

I have two points on this

1) I did oversimplize what I meant in saying he can't create his own shot in crunchtime. And I think you missed what I meant. Can't creat his shot was me saying that he's not a guy like the elite SGs in this league that you can give the ball to, down 1 with 20 seconds on the clock and clear out. He's not that type of good where in a tie game, you can say, "Alright, we need a bucket. Let's see if Jack can take his man to the hoop and either score or get fouled. If not, we go to OT." He's just not that type of SG.

2) What I really believe is that he can't be trusted to make good decisions on critical possesions. This means that at any point in the waning minute of the 4th he could be a liability. We all know he takes some bad shots. And I really worry about what two years of him "Being the Man" due to all the injuries/suspensions/other BS, has done to him at the end of games. For instance, next year when we have JO, Al, Granger, Jack, and (let's hope) Tinsley on the court and we need a bucket with under a minute, is Jackson going to defer to the guys that should be shooting, or pop the first semi-open jumper he can because that's what he's gotten used to doing?

I don't have an answer for that. Nor do I care to find out.



And if you have a top 15-18 SG, shouldn't you be happy with that, in a league with 30 teams?

Not if you have questions about your "dominant big man" and a starting point guard that may or may not be Sarunas Jasacakjlkajszpovjaojvoious, Marquis Daniels or Darrell Armstrong.

15th best is exactly what is seems...Average. With his baggage, even moving him and ending up with "slighly below average" would be an upgrade.

grace
07-30-2006, 01:01 PM
They also said that Jax would also admit that He needed some one to keep him stright. Jax can be a very good player. But someone has to ride herd on him

Maybe the Pacers should hire Stephen's mother to be an assistant coach.

PacerMan
07-30-2006, 01:04 PM
That so many people think that Jax is a horrible player.

Come on people use your brains, he a third scoring option or possibly a fourth. Thats been forced to be a First or second for the last 2 years. How the hell can you fault him for that. Hes a role player that has been forced to be an important cornerstone of this team because. Tinsley and JO can't stay out of doctors office. Artest sold his medication to school children.

Whats interesting is his stats when he was actually able to be a 3rd scoring option, 20.2 PPG with 43.4FG% Now that looks pretty damn good for a 3rd scoring option. And thats with going through a cold spell on his 3 pointers. Especially considering hes a scorer not a shooter thats really good. Heres a plus as well he plays pretty solid defense.

Its just amazing how different a role players stats look like when he is not forced to be the main guy.

You are exactly correct sir. Unfortunately he's become chief whipping boy so he'll likely have to move on.

JayRedd
07-30-2006, 01:08 PM
Having talked to some on the Spurs board, When Jax would start to get out control, Pop would pull him, and would not argue with him. I for one think Rick should get some backbone and be the boss. They also said that Jax would also admit that He needed some one to keep him stright. Jax can be a very good player. But someone has to ride herd on him

If Jax doesn't have respect for Rick now, that is not going to help anything. In order to be able to hold an emotioinal player in check like that, he has to have respect for the a) the coach, and b) the best players on the team.

I really can't call whether he does or does not for Rick. I imagine he respects JO mostly. But I also believe he considers himself probably the 2nd best player on the team, and the difference between accepting getting benched when you think you're the best guy on the team vs. when you're playing behind the Admiral and Tim Duncan is very big in my mind.

This may have worked a few years ago. Now, I think it's too late. You can't start sending a kid to his room at 15 years old after years of letting him draw on the walls with crayons.

Jose Slaughter
07-30-2006, 01:25 PM
I agree with the comments of Burnzone on this one.

I think part of the problem with Jackson is that he views himself as a 2nd option & not a 3rd or 4th.

Wu-Gambino
07-31-2006, 09:22 AM
He's not a good basketball player.


He's really not that bad of a player.


I think part of the problem with Jackson is that he views himself as a 2nd option & not a 3rd or 4th.
But don't you think the team did as well (I'm talking about from the time Artest was suspended up until the point we got Peja)?

How many times over the past two years has he been in that position to be the third or fourth option? Due to all the injuries and suspensions we have had, he had to be our first or section option for most games. Obviously he isn't.

I think Jackson is more fit for a role player, or a third/fourth option.

Trader Joe
07-31-2006, 09:37 AM
Having talked to some on the Spurs board, When Jax would start to get out control, Pop would pull him, and would not argue with him. I for one think Rick should get some backbone and be the boss. They also said that Jax would also admit that He needed some one to keep him stright. Jax can be a very good player. But someone has to ride herd on him

Pop had this guy named Manu he could pull him in favor of. Hopefully Quis can do the same for us.

Phildog
07-31-2006, 10:37 AM
So are you comparing Quis to Manu? That's a bold statement!!