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View Full Version : ESPN}Hawks have stipulations, but Harrington deal still likely



Suaveness
07-28-2006, 07:00 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=2532200


Although it remains unclear how much longer the Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind) will have to wait to complete their widely anticipated re-acquisition of Al Harrington (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3268), sources close to the situation maintain that the sign-and-trade swap will go through.

The Atlanta Hawks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=atl), however, have apparently established three prerequisites before signing and trading Harrington back to the team that drafted him in 1998.

The Hawks, according to sources, want the Pacers to part with a future first-round pick, absorb the contract of third-year center John Edwards (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3884) and kick in $3 million in cash considerations, which is the maximum amount any team can add to a trade.

It's believed that the Pacers want to either scale back the quality of the draft pick or reduce the cash contribution.

This delay, though, hasn't changed the leaguewide perception that Harrington's return to Indiana is an inevitability. He might technically be the biggest name left on the NBA's free-agent market, but teams don't seem to regard him as available. Industry sources say no one else but the Pacers are presently chasing Harrington.

If the Pacers and Hawks reach a resolution, as expected, Atlanta would then sign Harrington to a six-year contract worth nearly $57 million and send him to Indiana. Separate trade exceptions to add Harrington and Edwards to their payroll, without shipping any players to the Hawks, would then enable the Pacers to complete the exchange.

The Pacers are reserving their biggest trade exception, created in the sign-and-trade earlier this month that sent Peja Stojakovic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3119) to New Orleans/Oklahoma City, for Harrington. That exception is worth $7.5 million and allows the Pacers to tack on $100,000 and start Harrington's new contract at $7.6 million.

The second exception, created by the recent trade of point guard Anthony Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3207) to Dallas, is worth more than $2.6 million and can thus absorb Edwards' $1.08 million salary for next season.

If the Hawks were to secure everything they seek in this deal, they'd essentially be getting a first-rounder and $4 million for Harrington once Edwards' salary is removed from their payroll. Sources say that Atlanta's teetering ownership group, in the midst of a legal battle with former partner Steve Belkin to keep control of the club, prefers a cash infusion to the idea of taking back a player or two from Indiana's roster (such as center Jeff Foster (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3344)) or a more expensive veteran.

Golden State, for example, offered power forward Troy Murphy (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3524) to the Hawks in a sign-and-trade that would have netted Harrington something closer to the six-year, $66 million contract he was seeking. But Murphy, who averaged a double-double in his past three full seasons, has nearly $51 million left on his contract over the next five years.

The Warriors, according to sources, pulled out of the Harrington Sweepstakes late last week, conceding that the versatile forward was heading back to the Pacers. Golden State ceased its pursuit when it became clear Harrington was indeed prepared to start his new deal in the $7.5 million range. If Harrington were still intent on making more than that in the first year of his forthcoming contract, Indiana couldn't use the trade exception to land him and couldn't otherwise trade for him unless the Hawks were willing to take back a package featuring Foster and a teammate or two.

The $7.5 million trade exception thus looms as one of the most valuable assets of the offseason. It initially looked as though the Pacers would lose Stojakovic without compensation, but a payment to the Hornets believed to be in the $250,000 range -- coupled with the Hornets' knowledge that they'd likely be keeping Harrington away from a fellow West playoff hopeful like Golden State or the Los Angeles Lakers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lal) -- turned the Stojakovic deal from an outright free-agent signing into a sign-and-trade that created the trade exception.

In the unlikely event that the deal with the Hawks collapses, it's difficult to forecast where Harrington will turn. Most teams have completed their significant free-agent business for the summer and Harrington's other top suitors have stopped pursuing him, believing that the Pacers have him wrapped up. The Warriors, Lakers and New York Knicks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk), furthermore, don't have a sizable trade exception to complete the sort of trade Atlanta's owners prefer, in which the Hawks don't have to take back significant salary.

The Pacers are hoping that the increasingly fast pace in today's NBA will permit Harrington -- a 6-foot-9, 245-pound swingman -- to play plenty of power forward in an athletic frontcourt setup alongside Jermaine O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3120) and Danny Granger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3943).

Acquiring Harrington is doubly crucial because he'd ease the burden on Granger when it comes to replacing Ron Artest (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3339). When Stojakovic gave the Hornets a verbal commitment to sign with them mere hours into free agency on July 1, Indiana faced the very real threat of having nothing to show for January's trade of Artest to Sacramento.

It's believed that the Pacers did also explore the idea of making a sign-and-trade run at Indiana native Bonzi Wells (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3254) earlier this summer, but Harrington was always their first choice. Wells, looking for a new team after Sacramento signed John Salmons (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3624) earlier this week, would supplant Harrington as the best player left on the NBA's open market once Harrington-to-Indiana is consummated.

"Obviously, Indiana, I'm more comfortable there because I've been there, I've been in the East," Harrington told ESPN.com earlier this month at the Vegas Summer League, making it clear then that he expected to wind up with either the Pacers or the Warriors.

"Going into free agency, obviously you think, 'I'm going to be at the bottom of the screen [on ESPN's Bottom Line ticker] like Ben Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3149) and the rest of the guys.' But everyone's telling me to be patient, so that's what I'm trying to do."

CompACE
07-28-2006, 07:07 AM
I guess we might be getting two former pacers players instead of one.
John Edwards - One of the greatest benchwarmers we've had.

Slick Pinkham
07-28-2006, 07:40 AM
It's believed that the Pacers want to either

a. scale back the quality of the draft pick

or

b. reduce the cash contribution.



go with a,

:pray:

Please be stingy with the draft picks. The next two drafts, at least, will be loaded.

Maybe we could swap a 1st for an Atlanta 2nd round pick 3-4 years down the road, since they will continue to suck with that management.


Edwards? :shudder:


I would have much preferred Mikki Moore, who was traded for only a 2009 second round pick:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2531679

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- The New Jersey Nets on Thursday acquired center Mikki Moore from the Seattle SuperSonics for a 2009 second-round draft pick.

Moore fills a need up front for New Jersey, which will be without the services of rookie power forward Josh Boone for four to six months after undergoing shoulder surgery.

The 7-foot Moore, 30, averaged 3.3 points and 2.3 rebounds last season for Seattle. In eight seasons with seven teams, he has career marks of 4.5 points and 3.1 rebounds in 303 games.

"We are pleased to add Mikki to our roster," Nets president Rod Thorn said. "He is a veteran presence who will add depth to our frontcourt rotation."

Swingman
07-28-2006, 08:02 AM
We better not lose our 2007 1st round pick. We'd probably be able to pick up someone just as good as harrington in next years draft considering how loaded it is.

rexnom
07-28-2006, 08:14 AM
We better not lose our 2007 1st round pick. We'd probably be able to pick up someone just as good as harrington in next years draft considering how loaded it is.
I agree with this...I really don't want to give up any more 2007 picks. I'd rather give them a 2008 unprotected.

Hicks
07-28-2006, 08:32 AM
I don't care which option we choose, as long as it gets done. I'd prefer a lesser draft pick, but either one works for me. As for getting Edwards back, I don't mind. It's another 7' body on the end of the bench to throw out there when we have foul trouble, and his contract expires this next summer anyway.

PacerMan
07-28-2006, 08:55 AM
We better not lose our 2007 1st round pick. We'd probably be able to pick up someone just as good as harrington in next years draft considering how loaded it is.

Not. We're going to be a decent team next year. Won't be close to the lottery.

clemdogg
07-28-2006, 09:07 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=2532200


"Going into free agency, obviously you think, 'I'm going to be at the bottom of the screen [on ESPN's Bottom Line ticker] like Ben Wallace (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3149) and the rest of the guys.' But everyone's telling me to be patient, so that's what I'm trying to do."


I really wish someone would get a new interview with Al and STOP using this quote! I don't know how many times I've read or heard this quote in the last month. It is really upsetting me.

skyfire
07-28-2006, 09:08 AM
Yea, i'd prefer if we hung onto our 1st rounder if possible. It's supposed to be a really good draft.

Its frustrating having to read the same empty pap day after day but I like how Larry and Donnie are playing this. They know the Hawks dont really have anyone else to deal with and are getting the best deal they can.

Peja TE + AJ TE + 3mil + 2nd rounder for Al + Edwards

If we could get something like that done, it'd be a great deal. If we have to give up a 1st rounder it would just be ok/average depending on where the pick ended up.

DisplacedKnick
07-28-2006, 09:24 AM
Agree with you guys - IMO a 1st rd pick is too much to give up. Next year's draft is the mother lode. The year when all those HS players who WOULD have declared early come out a year later because of the change in the CBA.

It'll be a very strong draft.

Unclebuck
07-28-2006, 09:31 AM
If the Pacers do have to give up a first round pick they need to lottery protect it

Hicks
07-28-2006, 09:34 AM
We will not be a lottery team.

Unclebuck
07-28-2006, 09:36 AM
We will not be a lottery team.



Probably not, but you never have any idea what might happen, so you lottery protect it, I don't care if you are the world champion Miami Heat.

DisplacedKnick
07-28-2006, 09:41 AM
We will not be a lottery team.

If Jamal Tinsley only plays 50-60 games IMO you will be. You don't have a stable full of players who can create their own shot. Without a PG your offense will be dead. JO playing only 50-60 games would just make the situation worse.

In either case, this looks like a very deep draft. IMO Danny Granger will make a better pro than Harrington - probably within a year or two. Your chances of getting someone as good or better than him in the top 20 is pretty strong. In fact, without looking at prospects in detail, that's where I'd protect it to - 20.

blanket
07-28-2006, 09:43 AM
The second exception, created by the recent trade of point guard Anthony Johnson to Dallas, is worth more than $2.6 million and can thus absorb Edwards' $1.08 million salary for next season.

If Atl have been requiring that we take Edwards off their hands without sending any contracts back since early in the negotiations, then the reason behind the AJ trade becomes a bit more clear. Acquiring another trade exception, plus a few players with non-guaranteed contracts allowed us to improve our offer to Atl by easing their financial burdens even further.

Also, I hope we end up using the remaining $1.5M of that new TE to acquire either a player or a draft pick from a team looking to avoid the LT.

sportsmusicxboxpacer
07-28-2006, 09:50 AM
Billy Knight make me sick:puke:

grace
07-28-2006, 11:10 AM
:edwards: :yay2:

As for being lottery or not I'm starting to think lottery might be better in the long run.

Someone explain to me exactly why Billy Knight owes the Pacers anything? I'm to the point now I hope he holds out to the bitter end just so I can see heads explode.






[disclaimer]The above poster is ill; therefore, she can not be held responsible for anything she posts.

Anthem
07-28-2006, 11:41 AM
I'd give up a 2007 second without any qualms.

birdman
07-28-2006, 11:42 AM
I don't know if this is the same article, but there is an insider article called "Harrington Deal Finally Done?" If someone could post it, it would be greatly appreciated. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

Jermaniac
07-28-2006, 11:43 AM
We better not lose our 2007 1st round pick. We'd probably be able to pick up someone just as good as harrington in next years draft considering how loaded it is.
lmao @ picking up 16 points and 7 boards a game in the middle of the first round

Slick Pinkham
07-28-2006, 11:57 AM
I don't know if this is the same article, but there is an insider article called "Harrington Deal Finally Done?" If someone could post it, it would be greatly appreciated. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

Friday, July 28
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Al Harrington
Hawks Pacers? Harrington Deal Finally Done?

Jul 28 - The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports a trade is in place in which the Hawks will sign Al Harrington to a six-year deal worth an estimated $60 million and then send him and John Edwards to Indiana for cash and a future draft pick . According to the newspaper, the sticking point of the deal is the cash the Hawks will receive because the Hawks reportedly want more than the Pacers are willing to give.
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Eddie House
Suns Nets? Nets Target House
Jul 28 - The Newark Star-Ledger reports the Nets want to sign a combo guard who can shoot and their top target is Eddie House. They also have interest in Kareem Rush.
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

Jamal Sampson
Kings Nuggets? Nuggets to Sign Sampson
Jul 28 - The Denver Post reports the Nuggets will sign Jamal Sampson today.
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY

New Jersey Nets Find No Takers
Jul 28 - The Bergen Record report the Nets continue to offer Zoran Planinic and Jeff McInnis and have made Antoine Wright available. According to the newspaper, the team tried to acquire Joe Smith from the Milwaukee Bucks recently but were turned down.

Frank Slade
07-28-2006, 12:05 PM
You think others teams, not to mention Indiana, will think twice before doing any trades with :hawks: in the near future ?

Shade
07-28-2006, 12:08 PM
Whoever keeps finagling these trade exceptions out of teams is a genius.

I guess the AJ trade makes a bit more sense now.

Shade
07-28-2006, 12:10 PM
lmao @ picking up 16 points and 7 boards a game in the middle of the first round

*coughdannygrangercough*

And, yes, he will average that or better.

Since86
07-28-2006, 12:10 PM
lmao @ picking up 16 points and 7 boards a game in the middle of the first round

I guess you don't invision Granger ever averaging 16 and 7.

Because I remind you, he was picked in the middle of the first round.

Slick Pinkham
07-28-2006, 12:12 PM
Count me in with those who expect the 20th pick next year to be better than the 10th pick this year.

Doug
07-28-2006, 12:13 PM
John Edwards - One of the greatest benchwarmers we've had.

John Edwards couldn't hold Mark Pope's jockstrap.

Pope should be in the 12th-man hall of fame.

Frank Slade
07-28-2006, 12:19 PM
Whoever keeps finagling these trade exceptions out of teams is a genius.

I guess the AJ trade makes a bit more sense now.

This was in reference to the Peja deal, assuming he pulled the AJ one off was well, someone deserves a raise.


Walsh credited senior vice president David Morway for arranging the deal.

grace
07-28-2006, 12:25 PM
Pope should be in the 12th-man hall of fame.

Because I don't like QFT I'll just say I agree with you.

DisplacedKnick
07-28-2006, 12:26 PM
Pope should be in the 12th-man hall of fame.

He definitely needs to start on the All-Quote Team.

Hicks
07-28-2006, 12:28 PM
I love Granger, but he's the exception, not the rule, to mid-first round picks.

Since86
07-28-2006, 12:29 PM
Whoever keeps finagling these trade exceptions out of teams is a genius.

I guess the AJ trade makes a bit more sense now.

I still don't buy the Pacers PR saying he "probably' would have been a lockerroom problem. It was simply a salary dump.

It doesn't make sense to hold onto your biggest two problems, and I would be willing to add Saras as #3, for a maybe.

Calling AJ a problem gives the sense that they're trying to clean up behind the scenes, and I don't buy it.

Since86
07-28-2006, 12:31 PM
I love Granger, but he's the exception, not the rule, to mid-first round picks.

The next two drafts are 10x more loaded than last years. It's not a lock to say a player as good will fall to the Ps, but one will land to some team in the middle to end of the round.

Hicks
07-28-2006, 12:34 PM
I'll trust you guys that it's going to be a deep draft, but conversely I've read the past two, maybe three years heading into them that the drafts were weak and yet every time somehow it's considered deep the week before it happens, and in those same week drafts we've walked away with Danny Granger and James White (who I expect to be a first-round quality player; I've bought Chauncey's hype). I know that goes against what I was just arguing, but I bring it up to point out that what "everyone" says is a given rarely ever is.

btowncolt
07-28-2006, 12:37 PM
I'll trust you guys that it's going to be a deep draft, but conversely I've read the past two, maybe three years heading into them that the drafts were weak and yet every time somehow it's considered deep the week before it happens, and in those same week drafts we've walked away with Danny Granger and James White (who I expect to be a first-round quality player; I've bought Chauncey's hype). I know that goes against what I was just arguing, but I bring it up to point out that what "everyone" says is a given rarely ever is.

I get what you're saying, but these next two drafts are incredibly loaded. No way would I give up a top 30 pick.

Since86
07-28-2006, 12:41 PM
I get what you're saying, but these next two drafts are incredibly loaded. No way would I give up a top 30 pick.

Especially to an Eastern Conference team.

Frank Slade
07-28-2006, 12:47 PM
I forgot ATL traded away a future 1st to PHX in the JJ deal.


Phoenix receive a first round pick from Atlanta (Joe Johnson trade 081905)
The Suns will receive Atlanta's own first round pick no later than the 2008 NBA Draft. Protected through No. 3 in 2007 and has no protection in 2008.

A 2008 1st may be worth more to them at this point.

sig
07-28-2006, 12:49 PM
Could there be someone like Marcus Williams available in the 20's next year?

Jon Theodore
07-28-2006, 01:08 PM
seems like we are shipping out a lot of picks. We are gonna be in trouble down the road if the young guys we have right now don't pan out.

And the nets getting Eddie House is just scary. The nets with actual firepower off the bench...look out eastern conference.

Nets might be the sleeper team this year.

Anthem
07-28-2006, 01:42 PM
seems like we are shipping out a lot of picks. We are gonna be in trouble down the road if the young guys we have right now don't pan out.
We didn't give any to Dallas, right? We've given away the second-round pick we got from Pheonix, plus one future second-rounder. That's not much.

vapacersfan
07-28-2006, 04:53 PM
I really wish someone would get a new interview with Al and STOP using this quote! I don't know how many times I've read or heard this quote in the last month. It is really upsetting me.

I agree its not the best of all quotes, but the article says itself that he can not be reached and has turned his cell phone off.

I am willing to bet he is as tired of this dragging on as all of us are

Kegboy
07-28-2006, 05:28 PM
:edwards: :yay2:

As for being lottery or not I'm starting to think lottery might be better in the long run.

It won't be if we give up our pick.

And I told you all the hold up was Edwards. I didn't even need sources.

Frank Slade
07-28-2006, 05:32 PM
It won't be if we give up our pick.

And I told you all the hold up was Edwards. I didn't even need sources.

I bet Walsh and Bird are trying to shop a 2009 Pick and BK is not buying it.

grace
07-28-2006, 05:39 PM
And I told you all the hold up was Edwards. I didn't even need sources.

:worship: Oh mighty one. When will this madness end? :worship:

Kegboy
07-28-2006, 09:09 PM
:worship: Oh mighty one. When will this madness end? :worship:
6/27/07 6:31pm EDT

Dan Patrick: "Welcome to the 2007 NBA draft. The end of 3 horrible years in the heartland ends tonight, as a champion comes home.

We all know the story. As the Indiana Pacers franchise went down in flames this season, Hoosiers watched as one of their own led his team of freshmen to the Final Four, and Ohio State's first championship since Bobby Knight played for them almost 50 years ago.

Millions of people watched the drama of the highest rated NBA Draft lottery ever, as Donnie Walsh broke down in tears as deputy commisioner Adam Silver pulled Atlanta Hawks card, signifying a budding legend was coming home to fix the broken heap another legend left behind.

Rachel Nichols is in Indianapolis. Rachel?"

Rachel Nichols: "Good Evening Dan. It's an amazing scene outside of Conseco Fieldhouse. The crowds started showing before noon today. Streets were shut down by 2pm. Police estimate a raucous 50,000 are gathered on Pennsylvania Avenue. Indianapolis firefighters were called in two hours ago when a bonfire of Larry Bird jersey's got out of hand, but besides that things have been peaceful."

DP: "Thanks Rachel, here's NBA Commisioner David Stern."

David Stern: "On behalf of the NBA, I'd like to welcome you to Madison Square Garden, home of the NBA Champion New York Knicks, the New York Liberty, and the site of the 2007 NBA college draft. The Indiana Pacers have the first pick."

Dan Patrick: "I'm joined tonight by NBA analysts Jay Bilas, Mark Jackson, and Stephen A. Smith. Guys, I doubt we have much time, what are your thoughts?"

Jay Bilas: "Dan, I just am dumbstruck at the luck of Indiana's new regime. After Donnie Walsh retires on Friday, new GM Chuck Person and coach Michael Cooper are going to find that rebuilding will come very easy with Greg Oden to build around."

Mark Jackson: "Dan, I know people doubt me on this, but I still think Indiana might throw us here. Sure Oden's team won this year, but he had so much great talent around him. And Oden didn't have much competition in the paint to deal with. Why would those guys draft a Center when they've got John Edwards there already?"

Stephen A. Smith: "ARE YOU CRAZY! WHAT, YOU GONNA TELL US JOHN EDWARDS IS BETTER THAN WILT NOW?! HE'S NOT EVEN BETTER THAN SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS, OR PSYCHIC JOHN EDWARDS! YOU'RE ON CRACK, MAN!"

Dan Patrick: "And here's the commisoner."

David Stern: "With the first pick, in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Indiana Pacers select...Greg Oden, from Ohio State University. The Atlanta Hawks are on the clock."

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 09:18 PM
Could there be someone like Marcus Williams available in the 20's next year?

Zona's Marcus Williams will be available

:D

grace
07-28-2006, 09:23 PM
6/27/07 6:31pm EDT

Dan Patrick: "Welcome to the 2007 NBA draft. The end of 3 horrible years in the heartland ends tonight, as a champion comes home.

We all know the story. As the Indiana Pacers franchise went down in flames this season, Hoosiers watched as one of their own led his team of freshmen to the Final Four, and Ohio State's first championship since Bobby Knight played for them almost 50 years ago.

Millions of people watched the drama of the highest rated NBA Draft lottery ever, as Donnie Walsh broke down in tears as deputy commisioner Adam Silver pulled Atlanta Hawks card, signifying a budding legend was coming home to fix the broken heap another legend left behind.

Rachel Nichols is in Indianapolis. Rachel?"

Rachel Nichols: "Good Evening Dan. It's an amazing scene outside of Conseco Fieldhouse. The crowds started showing before noon today. Streets were shut down by 2pm. Police estimate a raucous 50,000 are gathered on Pennsylvania Avenue. Indianapolis firefighters were called in two hours ago when a bonfire of Larry Bird jersey's got out of hand, but besides that things have been peaceful."

DP: "Thanks Rachel, here's NBA Commisioner David Stern."

David Stern: "On behalf of the NBA, I'd like to welcome you to Madison Square Garden, home of the NBA Champion New York Knicks, the New York Liberty, and the site of the 2007 NBA college draft. The Indiana Pacers have the first pick."

Dan Patrick: "I'm joined tonight by NBA analysts Jay Bilas, Mark Jackson, and Stephen A. Smith. Guys, I doubt we have much time, what are your thoughts?"

Jay Bilas: "Dan, I just am dumbstruck at the luck of Indiana's new regime. After Donnie Walsh retires on Friday, new GM Chuck Person and coach Michael Cooper are going to find that rebuilding will come very easy with Greg Oden to build around."

Mark Jackson: "Dan, I know people doubt me on this, but I still think Indiana might throw us here. Sure Oden's team won this year, but he had so much great talent around him. And Oden didn't have much competition in the paint to deal with. Why would those guys draft a Center when they've got John Edwards there already?"

Stephen A. Smith: "ARE YOU CRAZY! WHAT, YOU GONNA TELL US JOHN EDWARDS IS BETTER THAN WILT NOW?! HE'S NOT EVEN BETTER THAN SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS, OR PSYCHIC JOHN EDWARDS! YOU'RE ON CRACK, MAN!"

Dan Patrick: "And here's the commisoner."

David Stern: "With the first pick, in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Indiana Pacers select...Greg Oden, from Ohio State University. The Atlanta Hawks are on the clock."

No reason for me to try for Best Post 2007. :kickcan:

Jon Theodore
07-28-2006, 10:23 PM
yeah wtf are we doing, we should start Runi, Flight, Granger, Baston, DH

and just play those guys all year while consistently losing and developing them, then draft Oden.

pacerwaala
07-28-2006, 10:23 PM
The Pacers are hoping that the increasingly fast pace in today's NBA will permit Harrington -- a 6-foot-9, 245-pound swingman -- to play plenty of power forward in an athletic frontcourt setup alongside


I know everybody is exicted about this siginiing but the above is the very reason that IMO, we should not be trading for Al. Al is a slow plodding forward who is a blackhole and is by no means quick or athletic. He will just be a hindrance to DG's progress. This contract will look like that of Croshere in two years. 16 points and 7 boards on a bad Atlanta Hawk team does not mean anything. SJax had a good year with Atlanta and we got sucked into signing him.

This is a wild suggestion but this is probabaly just the Pacers brass doing something to show that they did not lose Artest for nothing.

Lord Helmet
07-29-2006, 12:09 AM
Why do we always have to put up with this ****.

Hey, Billy, hurry your *** up, damnit. :unimpress

Anthem
07-29-2006, 12:53 AM
I know everybody is exicted about this siginiing but the above is the very reason that IMO, we should not be trading for Al. Al is a slow plodding forward who is a blackhole and is by no means quick or athletic.
At PF or SF?

Agree he's a tiny bit slow for SF, but he's definitely quick for a PF.

Naptown_Seth
07-29-2006, 02:04 AM
Probably not, but you never have any idea what might happen, so you lottery protect it, I don't care if you are the world champion Miami Heat.Exactly, and if the Hawks recgonize that the Pacers shouldn't be a lottery team then what do they care if its protected.

If they make the team eat the horrible Edwards deal and pay him more to sit on the bench than before, then I say F them on the pick and that they should be thankful for the cash. And the $3m max!?! IMO even asking for that amount AND absorbing Edwards is pushing it.



This was in reference to the Peja deal, assuming he pulled the AJ one off was well, someone deserves a raise.
I agree with you and Shade. The AJ deal makes a lot more sense. And BTW since I was the one that kicked out the "maybe it was AJ refusing the trade" in reference to the Tinsley rumor, we have heard now that the Hawks didn't want a player, so neither AJ or Tinsley appear to have refused to show at an exam. It was just more Tinsley hate mongering by someone looking to get fans PO'd at him for something he didn't do.

Likely BK said to the Pacers that he wanted them to take Edwards and they couldn't at the time, so they solved 2 problems at once, the PG depth and getting the space for Edwards with yet another delayed trade (TE).

And then when they came back to him and said "okay, we'll take Edwards and send you $2m" (or similar) he said "well, now I also want a pick and more money, wah wah wah". What a jerky.




and just play those guys all year while consistently losing and developing them, then draft Oden.
Don't you mean, having a horrible empty arena season with only 20 wins and then getting a 25% chance at Oden, which in other terms means a 75% chance of NOT getting Oden.

All "lottery fans" need to go look up the odds of winning the #1 pick and then ask themselves "is a 25% chance or worse worth ruining the team for".

Maybe Kegboy can edit his post back in time to lottery night, when we see the Pacers card pulled when they get to #3, despite the Pacers being 6 games worse than any other team in the NBA and attendance dropping to 7,000 per game in just one season.

Yes, we would celebrate, wouldn't we? :buddies:

Anthem
07-29-2006, 02:40 AM
And BTW since I was the one that kicked out the "maybe it was AJ refusing the trade" in reference to the Tinsley rumor, we have heard now that the Hawks didn't want a player, so neither AJ or Tinsley appear to have refused to show at an exam. It was just more Tinsley hate mongering by someone looking to get fans PO'd at him for something he didn't do.
I bet we hear about it again from Bball, something along the lines of "How do we know we can even trade Tinsley? He can always just skip his physical again, and then other GMs will never trade for him."

Today's rumor is tomorrow's accepted fact.

Naptown_Seth
07-29-2006, 03:11 AM
I bet we hear about it again from Bball, something along the lines of "How do we know we can even trade Tinsley? He can always just skip his physical again, and then other GMs will never trade for him."

Today's rumor is tomorrow's accepted fact.
I haven't been around here long enough to know who's who and what's what just yet, but based on everywhere else in life I know you are right. I feel that way about Tinsley's injury plagued season in 03-04 or how Bender was foolishly signed when his massive knee injury was well known even though he got the new deal in the summer coming off of 70+ games played in his 3rd and best year.



And to be clear, my AJ version was just my attempt to make sense out of some otherwise weird stuff and a rumor.

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 10:28 AM
Maybe Kegboy can edit his post back in time to lottery night, when we see the Pacers card pulled when they get to #3, despite the Pacers being 6 games worse than any other team in the NBA and attendance dropping to 7,000 per game in just one season.

Yes, we would celebrate, wouldn't we? :buddies:

We'd still get McRoberts. ;)

--

I just think the "no way are we making the lottery" talk is just asking for another disaster to befall the team. We were only a couple games from making it this year. And please, nobody say "it can't get worse". It can always get worse.

3rdStrike
07-29-2006, 10:52 AM
If the team collapses again and they decide to part ways with O'Neal, you better bet that Oden will be a Pacer.

Hicks
07-29-2006, 11:01 AM
If the team collapses again and they decide to part ways with O'Neal, you better bet that Oden will 75% likely NOT be a Pacer.

Fixed.

Tyrion
07-29-2006, 11:14 AM
If we actually want Oden bad enough, the way to get him is to wait and then offer JO for the #1 pick after the lottery next year.

Kegboy
07-29-2006, 11:32 AM
If we actually want Oden bad enough, the way to get him is to wait and then offer JO for the #1 pick after the lottery next year.

Nobody will take that. Nobody.

PacerMan
07-29-2006, 12:56 PM
I know everybody is exicted about this siginiing but the above is the very reason that IMO, we should not be trading for Al. Al is a slow plodding forward who is a blackhole and is by no means quick or athletic. He will just be a hindrance to DG's progress. This contract will look like that of Croshere in two years. 16 points and 7 boards on a bad Atlanta Hawk team does not mean anything. SJax had a good year with Atlanta and we got sucked into signing him.

This is a wild suggestion but this is probabaly just the Pacers brass doing something to show that they did not lose Artest for nothing.

You really have no clue about Al.

PacerMan
07-29-2006, 01:10 PM
Don't you mean, having a horrible empty arena season with only 20 wins and then getting a 25% chance at Oden, which in other terms means a 75% chance of NOT getting Oden.

A



People that post such ideas such as tanking, really havn't thought about the business ramifications of a season like that. Millions and millions in lost ticket and concessions, advertising sales, etc. Thousands of season ticket holders not renewing, etc etc GIVEN the extreme fragmentation of public interest in any particular subject these days, many of those fans would never come back. They would give up on the Pacers. They won't simply be replaced by new fans, even when the team starts winning again.

I've never been nearly the NFL fan that I was before they went on strike and skipped a season. It's not residual anger, I just found other things to do on Sunday afternoons and even after they started playing again I just didn't care as much. Used to watch any game that was on, all the Bears games and MNF. NOw I watch the Bears and that's it. They 'lost' me. You simply can't lose an established consumer base like that in the business environment that exists today.
Donnie's spoken to this subject, a season like that would financially ruin a small market team like the Pacers.

vapacersfan
07-29-2006, 01:55 PM
I bet we hear about it again from Bball, something along the lines of "How do we know we can even trade Tinsley? He can always just skip his physical again, and then other GMs will never trade for him."

Today's rumor is tomorrow's accepted fact.

So now its an accepted fact that this isnt true?

I didnt buy it when I heard it was 100% true, and I dont buy that its 100% false.

Lets just assume that the "rumor" was true, do we really expect the Hawks to admit to it right now? They dont even have a deal in place, I wouldnt expect them to admit to anything at this point.

grace
07-29-2006, 02:14 PM
And please, nobody say "it can't get worse". It can always get worse.

It's official. You spend WAY too much time around me. My pessimism is wearing off on you.

Did I forget to mention I agree with you totally? I do.

Naptown_Seth
07-30-2006, 12:50 AM
So now its an accepted fact that this isnt true?
Yes, because part of the problem now is that Atlanta is saying that they don't want players, haven't wanted players and have no interest in taking on contracts.

It's true enough that Golden State quite negotiating for this reason. Harrington was offered more in a GS trade situation (or could potentially get more based on the SnT for the players involved) and Atlanta said they didn't want the contracts.

Now Tinsley is no $8m guy, but he has a nice long deal still and certainly qualifies as a deal ATL wouldn't want to take on if that is their position.

Not only do they not want contracts, but they are trying to force Indy to take on more of theirs (Edwards). And to me that says volumes, especially when tied with all the rumors from a week or 2 ago that it was going to be picks and cash only (with the occasional Foster or AJ might go too mentioned).

Only hopeful ATL fans ever got the Harrison talk going. Stein gave it as an example, as did Sekou Smith, but both strongly denied that as a real option and were just explaining the situation with the TE and what COULD be done. No rumors except the one in question even mentioned Tinsley and probably 75% said the Pacers weren't sending much of anything to get him. Given the choice between a massive coverup or this one unproven source being full of it, I go with full of it. ATL is acting like a team that doesn't want to take player back the other direction, that's how they are negotiating based on nearly every rumor out there.


I suggested AJ because it made more sense, but just being BS because ATL doesn't even want contracts makes more sense than either variation. And according to ATL's stance now this is the truth (that it was BS).

DisplacedKnick
07-30-2006, 08:51 AM
Yes, because part of the problem now is that Atlanta is saying that they don't want players, haven't wanted players and have no interest in taking on contracts.


Not sure it has anything to do with "want."

Wasn't there an article that mentioned a court decision which stated that the Hawks couldn't acquire any player with more than 1 year remaining on his contract, except for rookies, until the ownership mess got straightened out?

vapacersfan
07-30-2006, 11:19 AM
Not sure it has anything to do with "want."

Wasn't there an article that mentioned a court decision which stated that the Hawks couldn't acquire any player with more than 1 year remaining on his contract, except for rookies, until the ownership mess got straightened out?

That court ruling was revised. Im to lazy to go find it now, but I beleive it was changed from 1 year to 4 years.

Hicks
07-30-2006, 01:21 PM
It was, and more importantly after that was announced, it was made known that Atlanta doesn't want players back, so it's not just speculation.

pacerwaala
07-30-2006, 01:47 PM
You really have no clue about Al.


Feel free to enlighten me, my friend!

Naptown_Seth
08-01-2006, 12:28 AM
It was, and more importantly after that was announced, it was made known that Atlanta doesn't want players back, so it's not just speculation.
Exactly. So the reason Tinsley didn't skip a physical to protest is because Atlanta never said yes to taking on player contracts in the first place, which as I said is why Golden State is out of the mix.

If the Tinsley thing was true, then at this point Al would be on his way to the Warriors for a bigger payday anyway (they had an offer of player contracts higher than 7.6m). Unless there is a massive cover-up and associated spin going along with it that is.

I vote for simpliest answer is most likely.

Naptown_Seth
08-01-2006, 12:43 AM
Hey, I just found some secret video of GM Billy Knights office, complete with audio. I'll just use a screen capture and a quote for the audio to save space for now...


Pay to the order of Josh Childress...one dollar and NINE CENTS.
.
.
Pay to the order of Marvin Williams...one dollar and NINE CENTS.
.
.
Pay to the order of Josh Smith...one dollar and NINE CENTS.
.
.
(this goes on for some time like this)

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/Naptown_Seth/Billy_Knight.jpg
(Billy in action at Hawks HQ)


Remarkable footage, they must have left the draft war room webcam on or something.

BoomBaby31
08-01-2006, 01:31 AM
All of this talk about Oden, lets stop it. For one if Oden is injury prone all season (which he is injured right now) Oden is going to slump way down in the draft, if he even declares at all. Our luck we would Tank, miss the draw and get a 3rd position, trade numerous guys to get to first spot and the guy turns out like Kwame Brown. Oden isn't built like Shaq, he COULD be a Hakeem type player but, I wouldn't bet on it and I"m a betting man lol.

Maybe I'm being negative tonight but, I wouldn't shed a single tear if Harrington didn't come here. I KNOW this time next year we are going to be on this exact same board talking about who we should trade him for. The only reason why I would be sad is because we could use him to bring in a nice Center or a decent pg and a nice SF. I seriously think a lot of you guys are forgetting why AL left, he didn't start a little to big for 3, a little to small for 4 plus JO is there. We are going to be experiencing some Deja VU come March.