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Hicks
07-27-2006, 08:08 PM
The goal of this project is to determine the general consensus on Pacers Digest of who the best players are at each position in the NBA: Center, Power Forward, Small Forward, Shooting Guard, and Point Guard.

However, do not worry about the positions. I have tried to put everyone at their proper position, but what I am trying to do here is vote for the best overall player, at the position I happened to put them. The objective of each poll is to determine the best player listed, not the best pure positional player.

This thread is to vote for the best remaining shooting guard in the NBA. You have 24 hours from the time this thread is posted to vote!

Once each position has 30 players ranked, the project will end, and a final tally will be posted in a new thread.

The top shooting guards so far, as voted by Pacers Digest members, are:

#1 Kobe Bryant
#2 Dwyane Wade
#3 Paul Pierce
#4 Ray Allen
#5 Vince Carter
#6 Manu Ginobili
#7 Richard Hamilton
#8 Michael Redd
#9 Joe Johnson

Today's nominees* for best shooting guard remaining are:

Raja Bell
Caron Butler
Ricky Davis
Ben Gordon
Larry Hughes
Andre Iguodala
Stephen Jackson
Corey Maggette
Desmond Mason
Mike Miller
Cuttino Mobley
Morris Peterson
Jason Richardson
Jerry Stackhouse
Hedo Turkoglu
Bonzi Wells

* I can't please everyone with the position I put certain guys, so the way I see it is this:

If I've made such a colossal mistake, it can easily be corrected by you, the voter. How? I will always have "Other" as an option. All you have to do is vote for it, and state for the record in a reply which player you thought deserved the vote. If the majority of people do this, then that player will still win this poll. It just takes a little more effort then two clicks of the mouse. But if you're too lazy to do that, then you have no right to whine about it later. :-p

317Kim
07-27-2006, 08:31 PM
Ben Gordon. Woop woop!

Hicks
07-27-2006, 08:51 PM
The guy we wanted more than Peja.

Robertmto
07-27-2006, 08:51 PM
Still votin Butler here

AnotherBirdCreation
07-27-2006, 09:25 PM
Gordon.

Robertmto
07-27-2006, 11:43 PM
Gordon < Butler

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 12:24 AM
Butler isn't even top fifteen.

I can't decide between Jason Richardson and Gordon.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 03:50 AM
Butler isn't even top fifteen.

I really need to hear the 15 players better than him.

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 04:50 AM
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Vince Carter
Manu Ginobili
Richard Hamilton
Michael Redd
Joe Johnson
J-Rich
Ben Gordon
Bonzi Wells
Corey Maggette
Larry Hughes
Ricky Davis

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 02:20 PM
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Paul Pierce
Ray Allen
Vince Carter
Manu Ginobili
Richard Hamilton
Michael Redd
Joe Johnson
J-Rich
Ben Gordon
Bonzi Wells
Corey Maggette
Larry Hughes
Ricky Davis

9 out of 15 aint bad.

If you really think those other 6 are better than Butler than ur out of your mind. Butler is the best rebounding guard in the league, averaged 18 points, hit nearly 90% of his free throws and isn't too shabby on D either.

rexnom
07-28-2006, 02:22 PM
9 out of 15 aint bad.

If you really think those other 6 are better than Butler than ur out of your mind. Butler is the best rebounding guard in the league, averaged 18 points, hit nearly 90% of his free throws and isn't too shabby on D either.
I'd put Butler at 11 or 12...I think J-Rich is better and I think Gordon is better and possibly Maggette.

If you go by trade value then Butler certainly rises above those guys.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 02:31 PM
I'd put Butler at 11 or 12...I think J-Rich is better and I think Gordon is better and possibly Maggette.

If you go by trade value then Butler certainly rises above those guys.

Maggette is 2 much of a locker room problem and Gordon may be better, but what I saw of him in the first round of the playoffs last year turned me as a fan.

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 02:35 PM
All the way down to Maggette, there's no question that those guys are better. lmao you think he's better that Jason Richardson and Gordon? No way. Ricky Davis had better all around stats than Butler, so you can stop whining about the rebounds.

Only guy he might be able to slip by is Hughes, who I doubt he's better than considering he took his place and wasn't as good.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 02:46 PM
All the way down to Maggette, there's no question that those guys are better. lmao you think he's better that Jason Richardson and Gordon? No way. Ricky Davis had better all around stats than Butler, so you can stop whining about the rebounds.

Only guy he might be able to slip by is Hughes, who I doubt he's better than considering he took his place and wasn't as good.

As for Davis, Butler shot better than him from everywhere on the floor, free throw line, inside the arc, and outside the arc, and he only averaged 2 points less being the third option. Davis was the 2nd option on his team and the first option on the wing.

Butler >> Davis

As for Hughes, Butler shot better than him from everywhere except for 3 point land, and thats only because he took 50 less shots, if he woudl have shot 120 like Butler did his percentage would have been much lower. Just look at the 04/05 season he took 200+ and only shot 28%.

And how was Butler not as good taking Hughes place - he led the team in steals (just like Hughes did) scored very well as the 3rd option (just like Hughes did) and stretched the D (just like Hughes did)

Butler > Hughes

Come with some facts buddy.

JayRedd
07-28-2006, 02:49 PM
The guy we wanted more than Peja.

Yup

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 03:42 PM
As for Davis, Butler shot better than him from everywhere on the floor, free throw line, inside the arc, and outside the arc, and he only averaged 2 points less being the third option. Davis was the 2nd option on his team and the first option on the wing.

Butler >> Davis

As for Hughes, Butler shot better than him from everywhere except for 3 point land, and thats only because he took 50 less shots, if he woudl have shot 120 like Butler did his percentage would have been much lower. Just look at the 04/05 season he took 200+ and only shot 28%.

And how was Butler not as good taking Hughes place - he led the team in steals (just like Hughes did) scored very well as the 3rd option (just like Hughes did) and stretched the D (just like Hughes did)

Butler > Hughes

Come with some facts buddy.

Nice excuse. Third option on a team with ****ty offensive players. He, Jamison, and Arenas are the only scorers. Nobody else worries teams at all. Ricky Davis averaged 18, 5 and 5 and kept it like that even with all the change and his new system. Butler will never do that. Even with his slightly like .5 better percentages, Ricky is still the better scorer, passer, and defender making:

Davis>>Butler

I'll give him a pity selection and give him the fifteenth spot instead of Hughes. But that's just because I hate Hughes and because he can't make a jumpshot to save his life.

Nice job dodging the fact that you said he was better than Gordon and Richardson,by the way.
No facts to support your little fantasy land?

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/caron_butler/index.html

That's reality for you. Time to accept it.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 05:18 PM
Davis took 122 more 3 pointers and 218 more field goals and only averaged 2 more points than Butler? Does that convince you who's better?

As for Gordon I just feel that Butler is superior. Gordon is to small to guard other shooting guards and not quick enough to guard point guards. Also he can't take many players off the dribble which cripples his offensive ability.

And are you kidding me; J Rich??

The guy is horrible from the line, takes WAY too many shots and can't lead his team to a winning season for his life.

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 05:33 PM
Ricky Davis took more shots because He was the second option. And he only averaged two more because defenses focused more on him than they would on Butler.

Ben Gordon's just better. Way better shooter, better handles, more clutch. Isn't he younger too?

As for Richardson, you really think Caron Butler would get that sorry team into the playoffs, much less give them a chance while getting better every year? They should have made it last year, but lockerroom and injury problems kept them out.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 08:16 PM
If player A takes 200 more shots than player B, shouldn't player A score signifigantly more points?

Yes; but did he; no

Gordon is a much better shooter? Only if you only count 3 point shooting as shooting. The free throw and field goal percentages both go to Butler. The rebounding edge goes to Butler. The assist numbers were basically the same (which is a shame seeing how Gordon splits his time playing both guard positions and Butler is a 2/3) Butler is an obvious better defensive player both stat wise and "real game situations" wise. And as for better handles - Gordon commited 5 more TO's than Butler. Not a big difference - but it proves your point is wrong.

Butler >> Gordon

And don;t give me that crap about locker room problems. If J Rich was a true leader he could help keep that locker room in order. It is a known fact that player relastionships are very good in DC.

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 08:39 PM
LOL if you're trying to pass Caron Butler off as a better shooter than Ben Gordon, then you should never watch basketball again, because you have no idea what you're talking about. Ever hear of those little things called dunks, or layups maybe? I guess Shaq is a better shooter than Gordon too. Oh, and let's not forget that people don't leave Ben while Caron gets more open looks. Anyone who's watched the teams on a regular basis can tell you that.

Check the polls. I wonder who that one vote for Butler came from? I mean it's not like everybody else knows how wrong you are or anything. Jason Richardson only has 22 more votes. Don't worry, Caron can still catch up.

You're taking homerism to new levels.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 08:45 PM
I'm not suprised that Caron isn't getting votes - he's underrated and the Wizards don't get enough national air play.

And the truth is Butler is a better mid range shooter and slasher.

Jay Ohh
07-28-2006, 08:54 PM
Ben Gordon is probably a top five jumpshooter in this league. That includes midrange.

There's no way Caron Butlers ugly push shot should even be in the same sentence.

Robertmto
07-28-2006, 09:00 PM
Heart of a champion AND all around talent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yZoIZF9pYw&search=Caron%20Butler

And who cares what the shot looks like? If it goes in consistently then it is effective. (see Shawn Marion)