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View Full Version : FYI: Sekou Smith on next on ESPN950



IUColtPacerFan
07-27-2006, 04:17 PM
He is on next after the break to talk about Al.

www.espn950.com

Hicks
07-27-2006, 04:20 PM
Thanks for the alert! Hopefully he has something new, but I'm not holding my breath at this point.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 04:26 PM
It's being said it's all what Billy Knight wants.

Hurry the **** up, damnit. Billy might try to squirm out Harrison. :mad:

He owes us; so he better take a pick.

Young
07-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Tinsley and Jackson are to stay because they can't be moved.

Al Harrington is the last major deal for the Pacers.

SS hasn't been on yet, just the radio host talking right now. They are having trouble getting SS on the phone.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Someone please update, as if I even have to ask... :eyebrow:

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 04:28 PM
Screw that. Move them.

He thinks that the Al deal will be the last major move....

He thinks this will take more than a year as a re-tooling process. He said it could get ugly fan-wise and attendance-wise, because we aren't going to have much patience.

He thinks the record will be worse before it's better and BTW this is the radio announcer of the show, not Smith.

It's the host, Greg Rakestraw.

Suaveness
07-27-2006, 04:31 PM
Why can't Jackson be moved?

IUColtPacerFan
07-27-2006, 04:35 PM
Sorry guys, he was supposed to be on next :blush: Hopefully, they can get him on the phone soon.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 04:36 PM
I don't know the name of the announcer.

Greg Rakestraw probably, I can never get 950 for some reason online or in the office

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 04:36 PM
Why can't Jackson be moved?
I don't know, I guess it's because his contract.

I call BS. At this point, Jackson is so much of a team-hurter or "cancer" so to speak that I don't care what we get in return. Him being off the team is good enough.

blanket
07-27-2006, 04:36 PM
I have no doubt that there's a team out there that would take Jack. The question is what they'd be willing to give up for him, and whether DW/LB would consider that enough in return to make the deal.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 04:36 PM
Greg Rakestraw probably, I can never get 950 for some reason online or in the office
Yeah, that's his name. The stream is working perfect for me.

PacerFan31
07-27-2006, 04:36 PM
Yea the host is Rake.

Unclebuck
07-27-2006, 04:37 PM
I think to this point this is all Greg's opinion.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 04:41 PM
Pacers curse. :laugh:

FrenchConnection
07-27-2006, 04:42 PM
Rakestraw is just taking his opinions from his buddy Kravitz.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 04:44 PM
Rakestraw is just taking his opinions from his buddy Kravitz.

I respect Greg, but I never put too much stock in his take on the Pacers. FWIW. He can be somewhat of an alarmist at times.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the heads-up. I'm listening. :)

Isaac
07-27-2006, 04:47 PM
If we trade HULK for Harrington I'm going to be so upset. It would be one thing if we were going to be contenders for a title this year, but to do that move would be so boneheaded. I really hope we don't do that.

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 04:47 PM
Apparently, Jiffy Lube is Indiana's #1 oil change since 1985.

More updates to follow.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 04:48 PM
Apparently, Jiffy Lube is Indiana's #1 oil change since 1985.

More updates to follow.

:link:

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 04:49 PM
Northbound I69 between 465 and the Fishers exit is experiencing delays.

FYI.

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
They're interviewing a guy from Maxim magazine about Bob Knight.

Not really Pacers related.

jjbjjbjjb
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
At this point, Jackson is so much of a team-hurter or "cancer" so to speak

Oh, bullhonky. I'm so sick of hearing this.

There was a great post over on IndyStar by a poster called "IndyHeckle", that I want people here to see as well. Here it is:


Chemistry is not being nice or being the "good" guy. Chemistry is getting along, knowing how others on the team play, and being able to trust them when given the chance.

Let me restate, chemistry is not being a nice guy. Just because a group of players are punks does not mean they can not have good chemistry. If anything, it may mean that the "rotten core" actually have good chemistry, but the couple of good guys spolied it by being too good or nice.

Thinking back to my playing days, there was always a couple of good-doers that ticked the rest of the team off because they got in the ear of the coach, said the right things, etc. The rest of the players dispised this. Not only did it effect our playing decisions, but it really effected the off-the-court relationships. No one wanted to hang out with the coaches pet, let alone pass them the ball.....and it's not like we were even bad kids, just kids that didn't kiss***.

Look back, the team that wins isn't always a bunch of good guys, but rather, a group of guys that can relate to one another and just go out and play ball. Just look at the Pistons. A bunch of guys that were wrote off because they were bad apples.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
They're talking about the wrong Knight. :tap:

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:53 PM
Oh, bullhonky. I'm so sick of hearing this.

There was a great post over on IndyStar by a poster called "IndyHeckle", that I want people here to see as well. Here it is:

If what I've heard about Jack behind the scenes is true, it's not bullhonkey. I can't elaborate, so you'll just have to trust me.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:56 PM
SNAKES ON A MOTHER****ING PLANE!!!!! :yay2:

SoupIsGood
07-27-2006, 04:56 PM
Screw that. Move them.

He thinks that the Al deal will be the last major move....

He thinks this will take more than a year as a re-tooling process. He said it could get ugly fan-wise and attendance-wise, because we aren't going to have much patience.

He thinks the record will be worse before it's better and BTW this is the radio announcer of the show, not Smith.

It's the host, Greg Rakestraw.

This guy sounds like a tool.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:56 PM
:sleep:

SoupIsGood
07-27-2006, 04:57 PM
If what I've heard about Jack behind the scenes is true, it's not bullhonkey. I can't elaborate, so you'll just have to trust me.
You don't even need to see anything behind the scenes to know it's not bullhonkey. Jax is an idiot and it shows in almost everything he does.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:57 PM
They're interviewing a guy from Maxim magazine about Bob Knight.

Not really Pacers related.

Why is a guy from Maxim magazine thinking about Bob Knight? :uhoh2:

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 04:58 PM
Holy crap this is boring.

Shade
07-27-2006, 04:59 PM
Northbound I69 between 465 and the Fishers exit is experiencing delays.

FYI.

Still QFT, FYI.

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:00 PM
Holy crap this is boring.

Yeah, like you have anything better to do. :rolleyes:

Or me, for that matter. :rollout:

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 05:03 PM
Oh, bullhonky. I'm so sick of hearing this.

There was a great post over on IndyStar by a poster called "IndyHeckle", that I want people here to see as well. Here it is:
I'm talking about Jackson's on-court actions as well. I'm not calling him a "punk" or anything.

His on-court actions of yapping at refs/not getting back on defense, is ****ing with chemistry to me, and egging on more players to yap at refs. That's not helping the chemistry, to me.

Jackson may be a punk off the court which I doubt, but I'm talking about his on the court actions. Those are what **** me off and frankly I'm DAMN sick of it. I don't really look forward to seeing it from him this year.

Look, I love Jack's heart, I think he's a great, great guy, and I love his toughness, but his actions on the court are out-weighing this, if he could control his shot selection and not yap at refs and every time he thinks he was fouled, he just ran back on defense, I'd be fine with it. But, that doesn't happen.

Plus he may have been a bad lockerroom presence, I believe it, becuase I don't think Shade is a liar, so there's another X against Jack.

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:04 PM
Urge to kill...rising...

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:07 PM
They're supposedly trying to find the SOB. :tongue:

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:08 PM
FINALLY!

Bball
07-27-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm glad I checked this thread out... :suicide:

-Bball

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 05:11 PM
FINALLY!

:drama: What , what's going on ?

What did he say

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:11 PM
Nothing to report yet.

No resolution.

The Hawks are asking for more than the Pacers are willing to give up.

The Hawks want more $$$.

The Hawks don't want any more salary.

Smith seems convinced Al will land here eventually. He said "future teammates in Indiana."

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 05:12 PM
I think he's drunk.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 05:13 PM
It's going to be another looonnngg weekend :kickcan:

So if he does not wany any players apparently, they want Cash straight up? More Draft Picks ?

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:15 PM
Al is better (more consistent) than he was in Indy originally, producing at 30+ minutes a night what we only saw in small bursts here.

The deal looks to be the TE, money, and either Hulk or a 1st rounder.

Smith says he doesn't "fathom a player like David Harrison being involved."

Billy Knight is more interested in maintaining cap flexibility than obtaining new players.

Evan_The_Dude
07-27-2006, 05:16 PM
Well damn, it's not like Jackson was the only player to show up for every damn game and play his *** off in a role he wasn't meant to play in the first place. Not like he didn't play a major role in getting us into the damn playoffs the last 2 years. Sure, he's not perfect and he can let his temper get the best of him at times, but he's no Ron Artest. He has his teammates back, and he's the best teammate you could have.

Screw behind the scenes. I only know of one person (on this forum) that can truely say anything about Jack behind the scenes, and that one person has always praised Jack and said he's been treated unfairly by the fans. If Jack gets to be the 3rd man on this team, he's going to be the best 3rd man in the leage. Count on that. He brings a lot of things to the table that are a big part of what this team is trying to be about. Two of those things are hustle and heart. Can anybody honestly say that Jackson does NOT give us those qualities?

Unclebuck
07-27-2006, 05:16 PM
I think he's drunk.



He does sound like it

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:16 PM
LOL, Rakestraw said to tell the Hawks that we're not taking John Edwards back. :laugh:

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 05:19 PM
I had no idea someone who wasn't a politician or Jay could talk for so long without saying anything at all.

:tongue:

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 05:19 PM
It's over. Totally useless.

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:20 PM
It's over. Totally useless.

QFT

Once again, ESPN = teh suck

blanket
07-27-2006, 05:20 PM
Al is better (more consistent) than he was in Indy originally, producing at 30+ minutes a night what we only saw in small bursts here.

The deal looks to be the TE, money, and either Hulk or a 1st rounder.

Smith says he doesn't "fathom a player like David Harrison being involved."

Billy Knight is more interested in maintaining cap flexibility than obtaining new players.

I think the most $ we can offer is $3M, so how much of that we're willing to give must be the point of contention.

I'd offer something like:

TE and a lottery protected first round pick, or...

TE, $3M and no pick at all

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:24 PM
Screw behind the scenes. I only know of one person (on this forum) that can truely say anything about Jack behind the scenes, and that one person has always praised Jack and said he's been treated unfairly by the fans. If Jack gets to be the 3rd man on this team, he's going to be the best 3rd man in the leage. Count on that. He brings a lot of things to the table that are a big part of what this team is trying to be about. Two of those things are hustle and heart. Can anybody honestly say that Jackson does NOT give us those qualities?

While once again I can't elaborate, I also heard something about Peja (same source, which I believe) that made me feel he definitely didn't want to be here anymore, and he bolted town first chance he got. Let's just say this team was coming completely unraveled during the playoffs. After hearing these things, I'm ecstatic Peja is gone, and the only reason I'd be willing to give Jack one more shot is if we got Al, because maybe he and Armstrong can keep the Big Baby in check. I'm not saying Jack is a thug, but he sure has a lot of growing up to do.

btowncolt
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
I wouldn't give up our 1st rounder in next year's draft for Harrington.

IUColtPacerFan
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
Sekou did sound somewhat frustrated with Knight. He said he is on the phone everyday with Wells up here and they are both complaining that this is taking so long. But, it still appears a lock that Al will be a Pacer, it just depends on how much Atlanta is willing to take back.

Frank Slade
07-27-2006, 05:27 PM
I wouldn't give up our 1st rounder in next year's draft for Harrington.

Would you rather give up Harrison ?

If it is a 1st Rd Pick I would much rather it be a 2008.protected

Better draft next year, and the uncertainty of this year will be probably be higher than next.

1st Rounders are quite valuable. especially next year .

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:28 PM
I wouldn't give up our 1st rounder in next year's draft for Harrington.

Me either. Maybe that's the sticking point.

ABADays
07-27-2006, 05:33 PM
I wouldn't give up our 1st rounder in next year's draft for Harrington.

Nor would I.

Bball
07-27-2006, 05:53 PM
If we give them more money doesn't that mean Al's contract will be higher? And then even exponentially higher with the subsequent raises?

...Or does a cash/TE deal not work like that??

-Bball

Shade
07-27-2006, 05:58 PM
If we give them more money doesn't that mean Al's contract will be higher? And then even exponentially higher with the subsequent raises?

...Or does a cash/TE deal not work like that??

-Bball

No, I think the extra $$$ just goes into Knight's pocket, so to speak.

ChicagoJ
07-27-2006, 06:04 PM
I had no idea someone who wasn't a politician or Jay could talk for so long without saying anything at all.

:tongue:

I read that.

:kicknuts:

Destined4Greatness
07-27-2006, 06:20 PM
How is Jack a team cancer? I love the answers I get everytime I ask this.

My favorite is when people say its because he argues with the refs.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 06:24 PM
How is Jack a team cancer? I love the answers I get everytime I ask this.

My favorite is when people say its because he argues with the refs.
Rumored lockerroom problems, and yes arguing with refs does not help your team. Not getting back on defense while yelling at refs does not help your team. Poor shot selection does not help your team. Not helping your team and hurting it, seems like a cancer to me.

And I'm sick of it.

Obviously it's not going to matter what I'm going to say, so I'll leave it at this, agree to disagree.

Destined4Greatness
07-27-2006, 06:27 PM
Rumored lockerroom problems, and yes arguing with refs does not help your team. Not getting back on defense while yelling at refs does not help your team. Poor shot selection does not help your team. <I>Not helping your team and hurting it, seems like a cancer to me.<I>

And I'm sick of it.

Obviously it's not going to matter what I'm going to say, so I'll leave it at this, agree to disagree.

I don't agree to disagree with people who spew false info.

I suppose thats why the team has a better record with him than without him. The same can't be said about JO, Foster, Peja or possibly Tinsley( I would have to check)

All those things that you claim make him a cancer, well guess what JO does them all. So if you are going to proclaim Jack a cancer then JO is one too I suppose.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 06:29 PM
I don't agree to disagree with people who spew false info.

I suppose thats why the team has a better record with him than without him. The same can't be said about JO, Foster, Peja or possibly Tinsley( I would have to check)

All those things that you claim make him a cancer, well guess what JO does them all. So if you are going to proclaim Jack a cancer then JO is one too I suppose.
:rolleyes:

Ok, man. So Jack doesn't do any of the things I said? Not even one?

Destined4Greatness
07-27-2006, 06:31 PM
No he does but that doesn't make him a cancer. And the team is certainly not better without him. Learn to read. By your logic JO=Cancer. Now I don't like JO one damn bit, but hes not a cancer.

Jermaniac
07-27-2006, 07:31 PM
Give them the ****ing pick and lets go

Jay Ohh
07-27-2006, 07:36 PM
Jackashot killing the team's momentum by jacking up ill advised shots=cancer That's without even taking into account his whining to the press.

He KILLS the team. And what does cancer do? Exactly.

ChicagoJ
07-27-2006, 07:44 PM
I'm not convinced "cancer" is the right word for any of our players.

SJax has a bunch of issues. Fights with his coaches and teammates during games. Ballhogs. Doesn't give effort to get back on defense. Very low bballIQ or understanding of the limitations of his own game.

I think his teammates like him, though. He doesn't seem like the back-stabbing type. Unless you're a Crip... I'd be worried then. I'm kidding. Maybe.

Jack seems totally out-of-touch with what the fans want, and I agree with that 100%. Whether or not he's out-of-touch with what management/ coaches/ teammates want, well most of us think so but who knows.

I know this, I won't miss him at all when he's gone.

But I'm not sure he's a cancer. Just a dislikable player with an ultralow bballIQ that gives physical effort but hurts the team in so many ways with mental mistakes.

skyfire
07-27-2006, 07:44 PM
If Knight doesn't want to take on salary then the Pacers are the only game in town. I'd go so far as the TE + cash + 2nd rounder. Next seasons draft is supposed to be one of the best in years because of the 19yr old rule change. No reason to give up a 1st rounder when we dont have to.

If Jax is truly untradeable then Larry and Rick need to be straight up with him. Tell him we are going with youth, but if he stops *****ing to the refs and just plays ball then he can potentially have a Stackhouse with Dallas-like role on this team coming off the bench.

Hicks
07-27-2006, 07:45 PM
What's this nonsense about not giving up a 1st for Harrington (from some of you) ? Hello, a guaranteed starting-quality PF in his prime for less than half of the max right now, or a first round, non-lottery pick next year that God only knows how it will work out. This is incredible.

Jermaniac
07-27-2006, 07:47 PM
What's this nonsense about not giving up a 1st for Harrington (from some of you) ? Hello, a guaranteed starting-quality PF in his prime for less than half of the max right now, or a first round, non-lottery pick next year that God only knows how it will work out. This is incredible.BUT WE COULD HAVE THE NEXT GERALD GREEN WHO COULD BE THE NEXT T-MAC WHO COULD BE THE NEXT MICHAEL JORDAN IF HE DIDNT HAVE THE BACK PROBLEMS

Lord Helmet
07-27-2006, 08:01 PM
BUT WE COULD HAVE THE NEXT GERALD GREEN WHO COULD BE THE NEXT T-MAC WHO COULD BE THE NEXT MICHAEL JORDAN IF HE DIDNT HAVE THE BACK PROBLEMS
Yeah!! :laugh:

ESutt7
07-27-2006, 08:33 PM
[quote=Jay@Section204] He doesn't seem like the back-stabbing type. Unless you're a Crip... I'd be worried then. I'm kidding. Maybe.

[quote]

:laugh: Classic...

bulletproof
07-27-2006, 08:47 PM
I'm glad I checked this thread out... :suicide:

-Bball

Oh man, there are better suicide smilies now...

:suicide2:

or

:suicide4:

or

:suicide5:

or

:suicide6:

Hm. I guess that's it.

sportsmusicxboxpacer
07-27-2006, 08:48 PM
my honest opinion something hit major snag ! I have bee on computer like forever since i heard wthr with news abt baby al .. if this have be abt the money it should have been done already!

Hicks
07-27-2006, 08:55 PM
You forgot :suicide3:

GO!!!!!
07-27-2006, 08:59 PM
Hmm thats just scary..... I'm glad there just cartoons and out of reach from our dear kids

Speed
07-27-2006, 09:11 PM
What's this nonsense about not giving up a 1st for Harrington (from some of you) ? Hello, a guaranteed starting-quality PF in his prime for less than half of the max right now, or a first round, non-lottery pick next year that God only knows how it will work out. This is incredible.

Finally, Exactly right!! Thank you for putting it in perspective, wow, I'm shocked it took this long,

pizza guy
07-27-2006, 09:32 PM
I'm not convinced "cancer" is the right word for any of our players.

SJax has a bunch of issues. Fights with his coaches and teammates during games. Ballhogs. Doesn't give effort to get back on defense. Very low bballIQ or understanding of the limitations of his own game.

I think his teammates like him, though. He doesn't seem like the back-stabbing type. Unless you're a Crip... I'd be worried then. I'm kidding. Maybe.

Jack seems totally out-of-touch with what the fans want, and I agree with that 100%. Whether or not he's out-of-touch with what management/ coaches/ teammates want, well most of us think so but who knows.

I know this, I won't miss him at all when he's gone.

But I'm not sure he's a cancer. Just a dislikable player with an ultralow bballIQ that gives physical effort but hurts the team in so many ways with mental mistakes.

That may be the best synopsis of SJax I've ever read. The dude needs moved. Maybe if he were the 5th option or so, his mistakes could be hidden - but you'd still have the arguing with refs, so... Just get rid of him. If we traded Ron when the whole league knew he has a TON of baggage, and had demanded a trade, Jackson is not untradeable.

sixthman
07-27-2006, 10:24 PM
I'm not convinced "cancer" is the right word for any of our players.

SJax has a bunch of issues. Fights with his coaches and teammates during games. Ballhogs. Doesn't give effort to get back on defense. Very low bballIQ or understanding of the limitations of his own game.

I think his teammates like him, though. He doesn't seem like the back-stabbing type. Unless you're a Crip... I'd be worried then. I'm kidding. Maybe.

Jack seems totally out-of-touch with what the fans want, and I agree with that 100%. Whether or not he's out-of-touch with what management/ coaches/ teammates want, well most of us think so but who knows.

I know this, I won't miss him at all when he's gone.

But I'm not sure he's a cancer. Just a dislikable player with an ultralow bballIQ that gives physical effort but hurts the team in so many ways with mental mistakes.

That's a damn good post.

Naptown_Seth
07-27-2006, 11:32 PM
But I'm not sure he's a cancer. Just a dislikable player with an ultralow bballIQ that gives physical effort but hurts the team in so many ways with mental mistakes.
If only more player criticisms were this level-headed, then I could actually not :puke:after reading them. ;)

I understand that there are plenty of younger posters on here, and from experience I certainly know that this is an "emotional" stage of life, from 14-22, but trust a guy that had plenty of meltdowns over plenty of things that ended up not really being so bad that its never that bad, and there are plenty of shades of gray in the range of opinions.

No one player, nor Rick, is killing the team or saving the team. If all Jack did was bad it would be hella obvious compared to what we've seen, a case of "if you think this is bad...". Cancer is just thrown around way too often. Whatever happened to "not such a great player"?

That's why I stuck those photos of him calming down AJ when he was losing it over a call. It shows you that it wasn't always Jack being the problem. I've seen that repeated many times by him, calming another guy down or even learning to SPEAK to refs instead of flipping out on them. He never used to do that, so its improvement.

Doesn't mean he doesn't lose focus, make terrible decisions at times, get lazy, etc. Just means that its not 90% that stuff. He's a mixed bag, and if he wasn't he would be gone.


I like his good stuff, dislike his errors, and I try to stay optimistic that he will improve the bad things since I've seen him do it a little already, for example his interaction with refs (the guy went from 6-8 techs in 2 months to 2-3 in 4 months, and that was just last season).

So when Jay says "he's not a cancer, but he makes too many mistakes that hurt the team", that's an opinion I can respect even if I don't quite agree with it (I'd take out the "too" part since I think team can win with him still).



PS - the best thing about this thread was glossing through and seeing Shade's pain at having to listen to 950.
So dull it hits you like
:brick:

Shade
07-28-2006, 12:05 AM
Don't laugh at my pain. I took one for the team! :kickcan:

Naptown_Seth
07-28-2006, 12:30 AM
Don't laugh at my pain. I took one for the team! :kickcan:
You knew the risk when you tuned in the show. :D


At least it was an interview with a good source. Only problem is that Smith puts his stuff out there so much that it would be surprising if 950 got more out of him in an interview. He'll blog this deal being official long before 950 could get in touch with him.

Destined4Greatness
07-28-2006, 11:22 AM
If Jack hurts the team then how come his record when he plays is better than with JO, Tinsley, Peja, Foster. Every bad thing that you can apply to Jack can be applied to JO and Tins, Peja didn't play Defense so it really didn't matter if he didn't get back.

The only thing JO does better is talk to the media. And frankly talk is cheap.

The only thing Tins does better is talk to his trainer.

Face it, this fanbase always needs one person and just one person to blame for every one of the teams problems its always been that way.

Right now its Jack, before it was carlisle, before that it was Artest, before that it was stern, before that it was Zeke. It just goes on. Its called personal accountability. When their is this much badness EVERYBODY is to blame.

The only reason Jack argued with the refs more than Tinsley and JO, was because they were on the bench half the season. These bums wouldn't play through a flu for you guys and here is a guy that has a back injury playing to represent you. And you hate him. How pathetic is that.

He cares enough about this team thats fanbase hates him to play through a back injury. JO doesn't care enough about this teams fanbase to play through a flu. Kinda says something about their character doesn't it.

grace
07-28-2006, 11:56 AM
I'm not convinced "cancer" is the right word for any of our players.

I think you're right. Artest was a cancer. Stephen Jackson is more like a "sinus infection" in the Pacers locker room. He spreads like wildfire through the team sapping their energy, making them testy, making some long for the fresh air of another team's locker room.

A player with the tag of "sinus infection" is difficult to unload. Sure an infection is supposed to be easily treated but some forms are resistant to treatment. The atmosphere in the Pacers locker room is so icky nothing ever gets better there.

redwillow
07-28-2006, 02:15 PM
I would like to add that as captain JO is the one that's supposed to be talking to the refs. Jackson does it way too much. It's annoying to watch, I can only imagine what it would be like to be his teammate. Having said that I think Steven is alright. He plays really hard when he's not jawing at the refs. If he can improve on his streaky shooting and put a sock in it then I hope he stays.

Destined4Greatness
07-28-2006, 03:46 PM
JO's on the bench half the time. He supposed to get up in street clothes and start talking to the ref.

Face it, Jack was the teams leader when he argued with the refs alot of the time. Because alot of the time we didn't have JO or Peja. So if its the team leaders job to argue with the ref, how can you fault him for it.

redwillow
07-28-2006, 03:59 PM
No, I said captain, not leader. Steven is not the captain. If you can't admit that Steven's behavior towards the refs has cost us alot of fast break points then either you don't watch the Pacers that much, or you are Steven Jackson.

pizza guy
07-28-2006, 04:01 PM
If Jack hurts the team then how come his record when he plays is better than with JO, Tinsley, Peja, Foster. Every bad thing that you can apply to Jack can be applied to JO and Tins, Peja didn't play Defense so it really didn't matter if he didn't get back.

The only thing JO does better is talk to the media. And frankly talk is cheap.

The only thing Tins does better is talk to his trainer.

Face it, this fanbase always needs one person and just one person to blame for every one of the teams problems its always been that way.

Right now its Jack, before it was carlisle, before that it was Artest, before that it was stern, before that it was Zeke. It just goes on. Its called personal accountability. When their is this much badness EVERYBODY is to blame.

The only reason Jack argued with the refs more than Tinsley and JO, was because they were on the bench half the season. These bums wouldn't play through a flu for you guys and here is a guy that has a back injury playing to represent you. And you hate him. How pathetic is that.

He cares enough about this team thats fanbase hates him to play through a back injury. JO doesn't care enough about this teams fanbase to play through a flu. Kinda says something about their character doesn't it.

Well, personally, I hate Jackson because he's not a good player. Sure, when he catches fire, he can hit 5 in a row - but then he cools off and misses twice that many before making another one. He's terribly inconsistent, he makes very poor decisions, goes off on his own far too much...Jackson is just not that good of a player.

Then, when you compound those qualities with the whining at the refs and missing his defensive assignments...it adds up to a guy not many people will like.

Yes, he does display heart and dedication, but sometimes, you need things like talent and intelligence.

Destined4Greatness
07-28-2006, 04:06 PM
No, I said captain, not leader. Steven is not the captain. If you can't admit that Steven's behavior towards the refs has cost us alot of fast break points then either you don't watch the Pacers that much, or you are Steven Jackson.

No I can admit it, but does that mean he deserves to be traded. If so Bye Jermaine. Because he does it too. You can't even spell his name right which means A) You don't know jack about the Pacers B) You never gave him a chance.


All those things describe JO too, Pizza guy.

All the Faults of both Jack and Tinsley are combined in JO and he gets paid more than both combined. And yet people want to ship out those two, and build around JO. Why, because JO talks the talk. Well I am sorry talk is cheap.

pizza guy
07-28-2006, 04:12 PM
Maybe because JO is a 20/10 guy, and SJax and Tinsley aren't? Maybe because JO can really dominate a game, and SJax and Tinsley can't? Maybe because JO actually has some bball IQ, has displayed good passing, more consistency, and better defense than either of those two?

I don't know though, maybe SJax really is >>>>> JO. Where's Jermianiac? Can we have his one-sided opinion to match yours D4G?

:rolleyes:

redwillow
07-28-2006, 04:19 PM
Actually if you will look, I said I hope he stays. And I don't care if he spells it Steven, Stephen, Steffon or Stephalburger he's that guy who's not Reggie Miller. I did give him a chance. I took all the love I had for Al and transfered it to Jackson when he got here. At times I've been real glad he is a Pacer.

Putnam
07-28-2006, 04:54 PM
I've been sitting back this week watching some really nasty threads go by. It looked like people were having fun, but there was more heat than light.

Then today I see the following from D4G, which makes more sense than anything else I've seen all week. Apart for the spelling error, this deserves an award for post of the week.


When their is this much badness, everybody is to blame.

Well, not everybody. I don't think you can blame Boomer, or Reb Porter, or the Pacemates. But the blame does, as D4G says, touch (almost) everybody.

And since a solution has to be found, you just have to make a pragmatic decision about how you're going to fix the problem. It's not going to be fair, but do we care more about making a fair decision or about fixing the team before November? (For my part, I want the team fixed.) I'd have liked to see Carlisle dumped and Jackson given another chance under a firmer coach. But if that isn't going to happen, there's got to be changes at the heart of the conflict.

The "Not Jack's Fault" group needs to admit that the man has done things in a Pacers uniform that he shouldn't have done. You need to admit that if he'd played with the same heart, but with fewer technical fouls, it would have been better. Can you do that?

I don't think anyone on the other side grudges to admit that Jackson is a gamer. But some are convinced that the team would be better without him, tout court. There needs to be changes on the roster, and for reasons that have been stated so many times that even I'm tired of reading them, some people think moving Jackson would be good the the team. Most of them respect him enough to think he has trade value and would like to see him moved to a place where he can continue to play his game. Just not here.

Lord Helmet
07-28-2006, 05:06 PM
If Jack hurts the team then how come his record when he plays is better than with JO, Tinsley, Peja, Foster. Every bad thing that you can apply to Jack can be applied to JO and Tins, Peja didn't play Defense so it really didn't matter if he didn't get back.

The only thing JO does better is talk to the media. And frankly talk is cheap.

The only thing Tins does better is talk to his trainer.

Face it, this fanbase always needs one person and just one person to blame for every one of the teams problems its always been that way.

Right now its Jack, before it was carlisle, before that it was Artest, before that it was stern, before that it was Zeke. It just goes on. Its called personal accountability. When their is this much badness EVERYBODY is to blame.

The only reason Jack argued with the refs more than Tinsley and JO, was because they were on the bench half the season. These bums wouldn't play through a flu for you guys and here is a guy that has a back injury playing to represent you. And you hate him. How pathetic is that.

He cares enough about this team thats fanbase hates him to play through a back injury. JO doesn't care enough about this teams fanbase to play through a flu. Kinda says something about their character doesn't it.
You say I spit out false information? :rolleyes:

So, you're saying JO doesn't care enough for this team and city that he won't play through injuries/sickness? Yes, he might have missed a game or almost missed a game because of the flu.

But we're talking about a guy who hyperextended, HYPEREXTENDED his left or right leg, and came back out of the lockerroom in the same game and continued playing. Don't say I do something and then you go and do it yourself. :rolleyes:

Look, I'll go back and restate my opinions on Jack, he's a nice player, and I love his toughness and his heart, you think I hated him when he hurt his back and came back the next game? Hell no, I was giving the man props and love. I loved seeing that.

The reason a lot of this fanbase "hates him/grows tired of him" is not because of his heart and toughness, it's because of him yapping at refs constantly, not getting back on defense and having a horrible shot selection. Another thing that pizza guy pointed out that I wasn't even remembering was that he is terribly inconsistant, he will get 31 in a game and then the next game he will score 13 points going 6/21 or something like that. That's another reason I didn't point out.

If Jackson could even just clean up his act of yapping at refs and not getting back on defense, even though he's an inconsistant shooter, I'd be a lot more happier keeping him, because he's a guy you know will play through pain/injuries and hardly will get hurt and he's a guy you know will try his very hardest to win. But, just like Tinsley being healthy, asking for that from Jack seems too much.

grace
07-28-2006, 05:07 PM
I don't think you can blame Boomer, or Reb Porter, or the Pacemates.

I blame Boomer for letting Bowser get so out of shape. :fatbanana

redwillow
07-28-2006, 05:09 PM
I agree that Jackson is not the problem. It's a team problem. I'm hoping the fresh start that the new season will provide will help alot. I don't think there are many trades available that could land us a better player than Jackson. Hopefully we can be healthy this year and Jack can play more of a supporting role. Jackson at 2 with Granger, Harrington, and JO along side him sounds pretty good to me.

Naptown_Seth
07-29-2006, 02:25 AM
The "Not Jack's Fault" group needs to admit that the man has done things in a Pacers uniform that he shouldn't have done. You need to admit that if he'd played with the same heart, but with fewer technical fouls, it would have been better. Can you do that?
Maybe you mean D4G but lumping in a group makes this an unfair statement. I've done far more than that admit that stuff. I've called out some of his crap plays. I was walking by the bench when he chucked that shot with 9 seconds left in the half and was PO'd as I watched him head to the lockerroom a minute later. I was there when he jawed with Tinsley and AJ after they ripped him for shooting with 15 left on the clock while trying to protect a late lead. There have been plenty of others as well.

And I have never denied any of this nor suggested its not a problem. I was watching the brawl game BEFORE the brawl thinking Jack was the problem as he danced around looking for a fight with any Piston that would take the challenge.


But...this doesn't alter the FACT that he did learn to cut his techs WAY back after the first 2 months, nor that he played out of position without question, nor that after I watched as he fell square on his back he got up and played the next game (and from so close that I could feel the impact, and it wasn't pretty).

He screws up, but he also gets it right. He is inconsistant, which means he is not always the problem or always part of the solution. He does both.

And that is NOT the same as "team cancer" or "main problem" or "major problem", etc. Excuse people like me for not believing in the "one player, all problems" theory and stop trying to equate not believing in the "team wrecker" theory with "admit no fault in Jack's game/attitude".

Because those are NOT the same thing.



I agree that Jackson is not the problem. It's a team problem. I'm hoping the fresh start that the new season will provide will help alot. I don't think there are many trades available that could land us a better player than Jackson. Hopefully we can be healthy this year and Jack can play more of a supporting role. Jackson at 2 with Granger, Harrington, and JO along side him sounds pretty good to me.This is how I feel. And one thing about all the turnover is that it will help the remaining players in their effort to separate from the past emotions and bad vibes and make that fresh start.

The team had become bogged down with emotional frustration. So they hand Tinsley the unquestioned starter spot, SarJas gets a friend in camp, JO gets his buddy Al, Granger gets the start, the team gets a vet leader/coach type, they inject perimeter defense and energy into the squad and promise to play a more open court/athletic game.

jjbjjbjjb
07-29-2006, 02:32 AM
The team had become bogged down with emotional frustration. So they hand Tinsley the unquestioned starter spot, SarJas gets a friend in camp, JO gets his buddy Al, Granger gets the start, the team gets a vet leader/coach type, they inject perimeter defense and energy into the squad and promise to play a more open court/athletic game.

I study economics, and there's a phenomenon in game-theory experiments where, simply by telling the participants in the middle of a game that it's now a "new game" can dramatically alter their behavior. Obviously, what the Pacers have done goes far beyond just that.