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View Full Version : AL + JO = ???



FSU-IU
07-25-2006, 11:20 AM
If you believe that AL is more of a 4 now than a 3 (which I do)...and that JO is much better as a 4 than a 5 (which I do).......and since we all want to believe that Danny will be a star (we really don't know) at the 3.......we obviously have a problem at the 4. With JO's salary, and AL's soon to be salary....both should be playing 35-38mpg, right?

Look, Al can't play the 3 any better than Danny can play the 2..or any better than JO can play the 5. They need to be in their best positions, which causes problems for AL and JO.

Does acquiring AL make JO moveable next year, you know, after experimenting with JO at the 5 again this year flops?

Trader Joe
07-25-2006, 11:25 AM
AL + JO = ALJO? JOAL? AJLO?

Unclebuck
07-25-2006, 11:26 AM
I think JO is just fine at the 5 in fact I think that is his best position. A frontline of JO, AL and Granger is plenty big enough and talented enough if we get the right backcourt.

Having said that, I would have no problem looking into trading JO especially now that we have Al.

bulletproof
07-25-2006, 11:27 AM
If you believe that AL is more of a 4 now than a 3 (which I do)...and that JO is much better as a 4 than a 5 (which I do).......and since we all want to believe that Danny will be a star (we really don't know) at the 3.......we obviously have a problem at the 4. With JO's salary, and AL's soon to be salary....both should be playing 35-38mpg, right?

Look, Al can't play the 3 any better than Danny can play the 2..or any better than JO can play the 5. They need to be in their best positions, which causes problems for AL and JO.

Does acquiring AL make JO moveable next year, you know, after experimenting with JO at the 5 again this year flops?

2003-04
SF Ron Artest 41.6 mpg
F Al Harrington 30.9 mpg
FC Jermaine O'Neal 35.7 mpg
FC Jeff Foster 23.9 mpg

Slick Pinkham
07-25-2006, 11:34 AM
JO is better playing the 5 being guarded by one person (since Al and Danny must be respected) than playing the 4 and being double-teamed by his man and also the person assigned to Jeff in the past.

For the very few centers that you never want JO to guard (Shaq, Z, Yao is about it) then David & Jeff play a lot more (along with Scot or another big) and Al or Danny is a little unhappy but thems the breaks.

JO is better (not worse) playing the 5 at a lighter weight, creating problems with his mobility like Diaw did last year and like a healthy Amare did. He's not losing weight by fasting or anything. He should maintain his strength.

The problems are not in the frontcourt.

SoupIsGood
07-25-2006, 11:36 AM
JO + Al + Danny + Quis = 4/5 of an awesome starting lineup

D23
07-25-2006, 11:44 AM
JO + Al + Danny + Quis = 4/5 of an awesome starting lineup

Are you considering Quis as the PG or SG in that lineup? Either way it seems we really lack perimeter shooting (especially if he plays the 2).

Alpolloloco
07-25-2006, 11:47 AM
Al + JO (+ JT + SJax?) = KG + EG (+ RM + TH + RD?)

Our new lineup:

SJ/DA/OG
MD/RM/TH
DG/RD
KG/EG/SW
JF/DH/SP

Great!!!

SoupIsGood
07-25-2006, 11:48 AM
Are you considering Quis as the PG or SG in that lineup? Either way it seems we really lack perimeter shooting (especially if he plays the 2).

2.

Why especially if he plays the 2?

Steve
07-25-2006, 11:54 AM
I guess if you combine them, you get JA-LO.

Slick Pinkham
07-25-2006, 11:56 AM
I guess if you combine them, you get JA-LO.

It takes some backside to hold post position, for sure.

;)

The Hustler
07-25-2006, 11:58 AM
If J.O plays 5 and AL 4 with Danny 3 its a Great front line ... but no shooting at all (as said above) ... and very little off the bench ... the more i look at the team the more i see a crowded lane and ppl running into one and other!

having said that when i think obout we may be only 2 or 3 pieces away from contention ... certainly interesting and exciting!

ChicagoJ
07-25-2006, 12:22 PM
I think JO's best position is center, so I'm not worried about our frontcourt at all.

In fact, I generally agree with SiG that a PG + MD + DG + AH + JO lineup is an excellent foundation. With White and David as backups, we do still need one more forward that is ready to play this season.


2003-04
SF Ron Artest 41.6 mpg
F Al Harrington 30.9 mpg
FC Jermaine O'Neal 35.7 mpg
FC Jeff Foster 23.9 mpg

Almost all of JO's minutes that season came at the center postion. Al and Jeff basically split the minutes at PF.

Reggie played as much SF (with a PG and Fred on the court) as Al did (and Artest almost never played SG which at the time drove people on here nuts.)

Anthem
07-25-2006, 12:49 PM
In fact, I generally agree with SiG that a PG + MD + DG + AH + JO lineup is an excellent foundation. With White and David as backups, we do still need one more forward that is ready to play this season.
I'm perfectly happy with Foster as the backup PF. He's a good player, but more effective off the bench.

ESutt7
07-25-2006, 12:57 PM
JO is better playing the 5 being guarded by one person (since Al and Danny must be respected) than playing the 4 and being double-teamed by his man and also the person assigned to Jeff in the past.

For the very few centers that you never want JO to guard (Shaq, Z, Yao is about it) then David & Jeff play a lot more (along with Scot or another big) and Al or Danny is a little unhappy but thems the breaks.

JO is better (not worse) playing the 5 at a lighter weight, creating problems with his mobility like Diaw did last year and like a healthy Amare did. He's not losing weight by fasting or anything. He should maintain his strength.

The problems are not in the frontcourt.

Good post.
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If J.O plays 5 and AL 4 with Danny 3 its a Great front line ... but no shooting at all (as said above) ... and very little off the bench ... the more i look at the team the more i see a crowded lane and ppl running into one and other!

having said that when i think obout we may be only 2 or 3 pieces away from contention ... certainly interesting and exciting!

Actually I think Danny is going to be a good shooter. He might have to be if Al and JO are indeed being in the post too much. But all 3 are pretty good midrange shooters which means they can move out of the way of the player with the ball in the post. If their man doubles down they are open for the 15 footer.

And Al has 3 point range now. He shot about 35% last season, which is virtually the same as Jackson. DG shot extremely well from 3 in the postseason and I'm sure it is something he will continue to work on next season. So our shooting isn't as bad as some make it out to be, though it could certainly stand to be better.

The Hustler
07-25-2006, 01:15 PM
^^ i dont argue that mid range shooting is bad .. infact from 15 foot all our front line is impressive ...but 15foot shooters dont spread a defence enough to get isolations etc.

im not saying that shooting is a masive problem i just say its something ild like to team to address ... Danny is shooting well buti dont think we can count on him alone! ... one shooting gaurd in our rotation at least need to be respected from beond the ark IMO!

ESutt7
07-25-2006, 01:27 PM
I agree, I'd like a better perimeter shooter too. I was trying to point out that both Danny and Al can hit the 3 with some consistency, at least as well as Jack. Those are 3 guys that can hit 35+% from 3 pt. range next season, and that can spread a D, at least a little bit. But I would also prefer a sharpshooter. Maybe we'll get Joe Johnson with the Al Harrington trade...:D

D23
07-25-2006, 01:37 PM
2.

Why especially if he plays the 2?

If Quis plays the 2, that leaves Tinsley (presumably) at the point. Quis doesn't take a lot of perimeter shots and is only ~20% behind the arc. Tinsley shoots decently about once per week (when he's healthy). DG has developed a pretty nice shot, but he's still not regarded as a primary perimeter threat. However in the lineup you mentioned, if Quis played the point it would leave room for a shooter at the 2... provided we have one to fill the spot lol.


Maybe we'll get Joe Johnson with the Al Harrington trade...

Maybe the Knicks will sweep the finals next season (and Balkman will be the MVP!) :lol:

SoupIsGood
07-25-2006, 01:49 PM
If Quis plays the 2, that leaves Tinsley (presumably) at the point. Quis doesn't take a lot of perimeter shots and is only ~20% behind the arc. Tinsley shoots decently about once per week (when he's healthy). DG has developed a pretty nice shot, but he's still not regarded as a primary perimeter threat. However in the lineup you mentioned, if Quis played the point it would leave room for a shooter at the 2... provided we have one to fill the spot lol.



The PG we bring in will be able to shoot at least decently. I don't see shooting as a problem once that would happen.

Or, if you want to go the healthy Tinsley route - a healthy Tinsley is IMO not all that bad at shooting the open three.
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I think JO's best position is center, so I'm not worried about our frontcourt at all.

In fact, I generally agree with SiG that a PG + MD + DG + AH + JO lineup is an excellent foundation. With White and David as backups, we do still need one more forward that is ready to play this season.

Yup.

What I don't get is everyone wanting to start Jackson over Marquis :disturbed

You know, if Tinsley were durable, I'd love a Tinsley/Daniels/Granger/Harrington/O'Neal starting five. That'd rock.

How I wish we could have the post-brawl all-star level Tinsley back :sigh:

Jermaniac
07-25-2006, 02:09 PM
I think JO is just fine at the 5 in fact I think that is his best position. A frontline of JO, AL and Granger is plenty big enough and talented enough if we get the right backcourt.

Having said that, I would have no problem looking into trading JO especially now that we have Al.
The only reason we are trading for Al is because we are trying to build around JO for another championship run. Fix your face.

FSU-IU
07-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Has JO came out and said he wants to be the center (whether or not it is in the traditional sense)? Everyone posts their starting 5 as if JO is the starting center. Last I remember, JO said to the press he did not want to be a center, "too much wear and tear". Did I miss him saying differently?

Also - if you think that the starting 5 will consist of Danny-Al-JO - Jax/Daniels - and PG who can stay healthy- who do you see being the leading scorers? We know JO wants his points, Al was nicknamed the "blackhole" for a reason, and Danny needs to progress......so are we going to have a starting SG that does not try to shoot (very unlikely if it is Jax)? Or are we going to score 120+ppg???????

ESutt7
07-25-2006, 02:44 PM
120+. Duh. :laugh:

FSU-IU
07-25-2006, 02:46 PM
obviously I am joking about the 120+ppg......sorry if you missed the sarcasm

DisplacedKnick
07-25-2006, 03:15 PM
I think JO's best position is center, so I'm not worried about our frontcourt at all.


Unfortunately, based on his quotes for the last year, JO disagrees. Not sure if he's gotten past his "Drama Queendom" or not. If he has, OK. If not, that's another story.

Of course he'll only play 60 games or so anyway ...

PacerMan
07-25-2006, 04:33 PM
I think JO's best position is center, so I'm not worried about our frontcourt at all.

In fact, I generally agree with SiG that a PG + MD + DG + AH + JO lineup is an excellent foundation. With White and David as backups, we do still need one more forward that is ready to play this season.



Almost all of JO's minutes that season came at the center postion. Al and Jeff basically split the minutes at PF.

Reggie played as much SF (with a PG and Fred on the court) as Al did (and Artest almost never played SG which at the time drove people on here nuts.)

Was this the year Reggie missed a bunch from his ankle injury? His second to last year? If so, Ron played a lot of SG.

ESutt7
07-25-2006, 04:46 PM
obviously I am joking about the 120+ppg......sorry if you missed the sarcasm

I was joking back. Just like I was joking that we could get JJ back in the Al deal.

rexnom
07-25-2006, 04:51 PM
Unfortunately, based on his quotes for the last year, JO disagrees. Not sure if he's gotten past his "Drama Queendom" or not. If he has, OK. If not, that's another story.

Of course he'll only play 60 games or so anyway ...
Well, of course he disagrees when he's playing with Jeff Foster, who unfortunately, is not a great center pairing with JO (because JO can be doubled so easily). Do you think JO would decline playing center if he had two legitmate threats in that front court with him? Of course not. Didn't Al say in an interview at some point that a Danny al-Jermaine front court could be very dangerous?

Off the bench you have one of the few "true" centers left with actual mobility and one of the best high energy and rebounding players. And this is not even discussing Williams or any of our swingmen we can swing to the 3. Guys, we have one of the best front courts in the NBA on our hands. That is not the problem. We can't agree on this?

Naptown_Seth
07-25-2006, 05:14 PM
Was this the year Reggie missed a bunch from his ankle injury? His second to last year? If so, Ron played a lot of SG.
No. The brawl season (04-05) and Isiah's final season (02-03) were the 2 times Reggie missed time to start the season.


From 03-04 (Pacers.com as source)
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/Naptown_Seth/03-04Pacers.gif


So Jeff got the starts at center, but for a good chunk of time Ron-Al-JO were the front court. They had the 3 most minutes on the team, total and per game. Anything past a 24 mpg average means players are playing together at some point just because math dictates it.

20/10 and 2.5 blocks per!!! I think JO would do whatever system allowed him to put up those numbers.
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2003-04
SF Ron Artest 41.6 mpg
F Al Harrington 30.9 mpg
FC Jermaine O'Neal 35.7 mpg
FC Jeff Foster 23.9 mpg

:huh:

Ron's 41.6 was from the 7 games in the BRAWL season, 04-05 with no Al on the team. Whoops.

:loser: ;)

DisplacedKnick
07-25-2006, 10:23 PM
Well, of course he disagrees when he's playing with Jeff Foster, who unfortunately, is not a great center pairing with JO (because JO can be doubled so easily). Do you think JO would decline playing center if he had two legitmate threats in that front court with him? Of course not.

Uh, absolutely. He never had a problem with offense - he always complained about who he had to defend and that he was getting beat up. He was always matched up against the other team's biggest, strongest player. That won't change with Al around. If you have a choice you don't defend 7 footers with a 6-9 guy unless he's named Ben Wallace.

Jumper
07-25-2006, 10:27 PM
Personally I can't wait to see the two on the court together. The past couple seasons JO has seemed to be a little more even keeled and less enthusiastic as he was the year before. Now, with the energetic and close friend Al around, I expect to see them feeding off of each other. It should be fun to watch.

AesopRockOn
07-26-2006, 12:01 AM
I think the AL-J0-DG front court is great but all they need to do is work together well and make good cuts to make up for the lack of shooting range; also crash the boards...if it's alright with Rick

Pacers4Life
07-26-2006, 04:49 AM
i for one am also excited. now knock on wood, but nothing is official yet. we don't even have al yet, although i see no reason as to why it would fall apart now. i can't wait to see a JO/Al/DG/Jax (IMO)/JT lineup. just so long as Jax takes his shooting down, and tinsley agrees to shoot nothing but layups