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Shade
07-24-2006, 06:47 PM
Once again, this is from RealGM, but someone who claims to have an inside source has said this about the Al deal:


I just heard back from my friend who is friends with the Pacers training staff. He said

<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="90%"> <tbody><tr> <td>Quote:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Please do not say ANYTHING about this on [PRIVATE FORUM] until ESPN reports it (I imagine tonight on the 6PM Sportscenter if it even makes the air) but I have heard that Indiana has pulled its player(s) off of the market, and that this trade will more then likely not involve any player, and will just involve cash considerations and maybe some draft picks.</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

This guy, btw, broke the Stephen Jackson for Harrington trade to me three days before it happened.

I hope he's wrong because I want Harrison included with a pick but I have a feeling this is going to happen. http://realgm.com/boards/images/smiles/icon_tever.gif


No, he doesn't think something like that is giong to be reported on air. Privately Indiana has pulled the players off the table at this point and its just pick(s) and cash. As of last Thursday the deal was going to be Tinsley/1st rounder for Harrington but we backed off it at the last second and Tinsley is MIA instead of taking a physical as his way of protesting a trade to Atlanta.

Let's suspend disbelief for a second. Does that Tinsley trade make any sense now in hindsight? AJ, Tins, and Runi have all supposedly been shopped so far, and AJ is already gone. Are we going to make a psh for a new PG? WTF is going on?

Trader Joe
07-24-2006, 06:50 PM
Like Tins would have passed the physical anyways...

ilive4sports
07-24-2006, 07:05 PM
I have a really good feeling that we are really looking for a new starting PG. I have no idea who it will be though because who is on the market even?

SoupIsGood
07-24-2006, 07:09 PM
I think this guy is making up crap.

Hicks
07-24-2006, 07:22 PM
I call BS.

blanket
07-24-2006, 07:24 PM
As mandated by the courts, Tins couldn't be included in a deal with the Hawks without the approval of all of the Hawks owners because his contract is more than 4 years long.

Also, the idea that it's the TE and pick(s) has been floating for a while in multiple articles, so it's not really inside info anymore.

CableKC
07-24-2006, 07:26 PM
There is no logic in this.......there is no way that the Hawks would want Tinsley...much less his huge@ss contract.

I think that they are as clueless as the rest of us.
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As mandated by the courts, Tins couldn't be included in a deal with the Hawks without the approval of all of the Hawks owners because his contract is more than 4 years long.

Also, the idea that it's the TE and pick(s) has been floating for a while in multiple articles, so it's not really inside info anymore.

^^^^^Yeah...what he said...

Chauncey
07-24-2006, 07:31 PM
When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight
you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya
Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor
Well - we don't believe you, you need more people

Unclebuck
07-24-2006, 07:42 PM
Who knows, but it sounds a bit convoluted.

Please Hawks waive the physcial requirement and take Tinsley from us.


I don't understand the "pull the players off the market" phrase. Just doesn't seem like something I hear teams do or say.


Shade: that link doesn'tt work for me, is that the Pacers real GM forum or the Hawks

Kaufman
07-24-2006, 08:00 PM
The Pacers did look at a former allstar type point guard but it was right before the draft and things obviously didn't go down... so I don't think that player would be available anymore as that trade was tied to draft picks as far as I know.
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No, he doesn't think something like that is giong to be reported on air. Privately Indiana has pulled the players off the table at this point and its just pick(s) and cash. As of last Thursday the deal was going to be Tinsley/1st rounder for Harrington but we backed off it at the last second and Tinsley is MIA instead of taking a physical as his way of protesting a trade to Atlanta.

Based on what I know, which isn't always much - this by far the closest idea of what is actually going on... there are some errors in this theory when compared to what I know but its close.
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My friend and I were speculating this weekend - remember when Artest protested against the trade to Sacramento --- I think that it sent the Pacers into a tailspin and the Pacers and Kings really made concessions in accomodating Artest. I think that set an example for players who might be in question right now from the Pacers side - they know they have that kind of leverage.

Pacersfan.
07-24-2006, 08:07 PM
The Pacers did look at a former allstar type point guard but it was right before the draft and things obviously didn't go down... so I don't think that player would be available anymore as that trade was tied to draft picks as far as I know.
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Based on what I know, which isn't always much - this by far the closest idea of what is actually going on... there are some errors in this theory when compared to what I know but its close.
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My friend and I were speculating this weekend - remember when Artest protested against the trade to Sacramento --- I think that it sent the Pacers into a tailspin and the Pacers and Kings really made concessions in accomodating Artest. I think that set an example for players who might be in question right now from the Pacers side - they know they have that kind of leverage.

That sucks. So we could have potentially gotten rid of Tinsley for Harrington and used the trade exception on another PG, but Tinsley is screwing all that up? :censored:

vapacersfan
07-24-2006, 08:19 PM
The Pacers did look at a former allstar type point guard but it was right before the draft and things obviously didn't go down... so I don't think that player would be available anymore as that trade was tied to draft picks as far as I know.
----------------------------------------------------------


Based on what I know, which isn't always much - this by far the closest idea of what is actually going on... there are some errors in this theory when compared to what I know but its close.
----------------------------------------------------------
My friend and I were speculating this weekend - remember when Artest protested against the trade to Sacramento --- I think that it sent the Pacers into a tailspin and the Pacers and Kings really made concessions in accomodating Artest. I think that set an example for players who might be in question right now from the Pacers side - they know they have that kind of leverage.

I admit I know very little of the laws of the NBA, but not even taking any other legality issues into account, clearly the NBA has some way to protect teams from players that try to "rebel" (is that the right word?) in the way Artest did?

I would have to think the NBA could suspend them, or void their contracts, or something along those lines.....

Kaufman
07-24-2006, 08:31 PM
Well I know college rules myself, but if you think about it logically... how much bad PR would the Pacers want to get, two times in the course of the last year? I think the Pacers would want to keep it on the down low if you know what I mean... I agree with you though I am sure that that NBA could/would take disciplinary action but at what cost to the team?

Unclebuck
07-24-2006, 08:34 PM
I can't wait for the pro-Tinsley faction to explain this, you know how it is all Carlisle's fault. In fact if Tinsley hated carlisle so much why doesn't he want to go to Atlanta

Ralph Snart
07-24-2006, 08:36 PM
It doesn't matter what the NBA might do, once a player pulls that kind of crap, the damage is almost irreversible. Frankly, I think it was a miracle the Artest trade went through.

Who wants a player that pulls such childish BS?

Shade
07-24-2006, 08:42 PM
I can't wait for the pro-Tinsley faction to explain this, you know how it is all Carlisle's fault. In fact if Tinsley hated carlisle so much why doesn't he want to go to Atlanta

Would YOU want to go to Atlanta?

vapacersfan
07-24-2006, 08:49 PM
Well I know college rules myself, but if you think about it logically... how much bad PR would the Pacers want to get, two times in the course of the last year? I think the Pacers would want to keep it on the down low if you know what I mean... I agree with you though I am sure that that NBA could/would take disciplinary action but at what cost to the team?

I know exactly what you mean, but I would have to imagine the Pacers would do it on the "down low" (;)) anyways, since that's generally how they operate.

I do agree the bad press would hurt the team and they would hate it from a PR P.O.V, but at the same time it would also make that player look horrible.

I have no clue how much of what was posted in "true" and how much of it is pure "BS", but if even 1% of that is true I hope the NBA does everything in its power to void his contract and to never let him play again. Yes, before anyone jump down my throat, namely Tinsley fans, I realize that is a bit harsh but doing that to a team is so disguisting to me its not even funny.
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I can't wait for the pro-Tinsley faction to explain this, you know how it is all Carlisle's fault. In fact if Tinsley hated carlisle so much why doesn't he want to go to Atlanta

damn, you stole my line
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Would YOU want to go to Atlanta?

Clearly if RC was holding him back so much he would welcome the fresh start..

Ralph Snart
07-24-2006, 08:49 PM
Would YOU want to go to Atlanta?

After the last two years, would you want to stay in Indiana?

Besides, Atlanta's a little more cosmopolitan. If he's going to be injured all season, I would think he'd want to be someplace where there's a lot going on.

Regardless of where he was being sent to, if this was true, he wasn't acting professional, end of story.

IUColtPacerFan
07-24-2006, 08:51 PM
I know exactly what you mean, but I would have to imagine the Pacers would do it on the "down low" (;)) anyways, since that's generally how they operate.

I do agree the bad press would hurt the team and they would hate it from a PR P.O.V, but at the same time it would also make that player look horrible.

I have no clue how much of what was posted in "true" and how much of it is pure "BS", but if even 1% of that is true I hope the NBA does everything in its power to void his contract and to never let him play again. Yes, before anyone jump down my throat, namely Tinsley fans, I realize that is a bit harsh but doing that to a team is so disguisting to me its not even funny.

I agree with you but from the team's perspective (if this in fact happened) it would make Tins even more untradeable than he already is for another team to make this public. If the Pacers really are shopping Tins, and it appears they are, then they couldn't let this news get out. Although, the fact that we are talking about it makes me think that either the news IS out or that it is false.

Unclebuck
07-24-2006, 09:01 PM
Atlanta is a great city to live in, a ton of NBA players live there in the offseason. If the ownershipsituation gets cleared up the Hawks could be a much improved team next season and Tinsley would be the point guard they really need. If Tinsley had a brain, yes he should want to go there. Afterall Ricky C. is just so mean to Jamaal, and Rick caused Tinsley to get sick and injured, so yes he should want to go to Atlanta

Bball
07-24-2006, 09:21 PM
:whistle:

-Bball

Trader Joe
07-24-2006, 09:51 PM
Oh so I see we are going to take some guy on the message boards word as gospel. That makes sense. Its all Tinsley's fault.

sixthman
07-24-2006, 09:52 PM
I thought Jamaal lived in Atlanta. Guess he doesn't want to play where he lives?

Ralph Snart
07-24-2006, 09:53 PM
Oh so I see we are going to take some guy on the message boards word as gospel. That makes sense. Its all Tinsley's fault.

No one is taking anything as gospel, however I will say that I wouldn't be surprised if this report was true. Tinsley doesn't have the best reputation.

Eindar
07-24-2006, 10:00 PM
I can't see Tinsley refusing to go home and play in a run-and-gun offense, meanwhile getting away from Carlisle.

Anthem
07-24-2006, 10:16 PM
I can't see Tinsley refusing to go home and play in a run-and-gun offense, meanwhile getting away from Carlisle.
My thought as well. It just doesn't make sense to me.

The "MIA" thing makes sense to me, though. I could see him being hard to get ahold of... but that's different than refusing to take a physical.

Naptown_Seth
07-24-2006, 10:19 PM
(disclosure - I like both Tinsley and Rick)


Well I know college rules myself, but if you think about it logically... how much bad PR would the Pacers want to get, two times in the course of the last year? I think the Pacers would want to keep it on the down low if you know what I mean... I agree with you though I am sure that that NBA could/would take disciplinary action but at what cost to the team?
Kauf, unless you are saying indirectly that you have reason to believe the Tins did hold out on a trade physical, then I don't believe it.

The reason stuff like this can take off is because people want to believe it from the anti-player view ("I knew that guy was a jerk"), but it makes ZERO sense from the Pacers side based on how they have behaved up to this point.

Fact - RC did plant Tins on the bench for 2 months when he first took over at coach. Discipline or just a strategy choice, doesn't matter. RC was willing to to it and at the time he had 3 PGs so it worked. No F'n way they wouldn't be willing to let Tinsley suffer the same fate this time around too.

Fact - Donnie planted Ron Ron off the team rather than try to gimp along with him playing during deal talks. He clearly has pride about that stuff and would rather take the hit and make a stand than get walked over.

Rumored Fact - When Ron tried to play hardball about going to Sacto DW brought him in and laid out what's what to him, effectively saying "You're going, so you better get used to the idea."


It's not Tinsley love that drives me here, just that I do not believe that either DW or Bird would allow Tinsley to set that tone. Ron didn't get what he wanted (LA Clippers), he didn't get to veto the Sacto trade. He was sent and it gained him nothing to miss those games or to throw his fit.

And that was DURING the season. There is plenty of time to move Tins, Tins has no power at this point. What's the threat, I won't play next season? Who cares, its months away, they have 2 other PGs (at the time) plus White and Greene and even Snap Hunter.

They have the TE, they have the MLE. What leverage at this point does Tins have? He can mess up the Harrington deal a little by acting up, but what keeps them from planting his butt.

Certainly its not PR because the fans are screaming for the blood of Jack and Tins for specifically BEHAVIOR issues. You think the Pacers would lose fans for laying the wood to Tinsley for pulling a stunt like this? Hell no, season ticket sales would INCREASE. AJ and SarJas have plenty of fans and all fans want the team to have more discipline.

Heck, most of us were more than happy to show Peja the :censored: door for his little sit out stunt in the playoffs.


And on top of that, you sure as F don't then trade AJ away if your other PG just used the "I won't do it" stunt.



It's a lot different if someone says that Tinsley failed the physical, or missed it on a bender. :toomuch:
That might get the team to cover it up and try to fix the situation, but they wouldn't avoid punishing a player for a stunt like this.


meanwhile getting away from Carlisle.
Another huge point. If Tins hates RC so much then there is no way he refuse this. He goes to the ATL which is a more "black friendly" city culture (IMO), a team that would allow him to INCREASE his stats for his next contract, and he still could later be moved elsewhere, all while avoiding the coach he allegedly hates.



it would make Tins even more untradeable than he already is for another team to make this publicHUGE problem with this though IUCPF, WE KNOW and we are just some jerks on a message board. You think if this happened that other GMs wouldn't know this? Come on. The Pacers would nuke anyone that pulled this...unless I hear otherwise from a very good source. There is NOTHING to gain by "only" letting it be known by Atlanta (and therefore everyone in the NBA) and people on message boards with the DL secret.

Bball
07-24-2006, 10:29 PM
Nap... you need to think harder on this. HYPOTHETICALLY: If the Pacers were actively trying to get rid of Tinsley and he balked at an Atlanta trade then their initial move might not be to make that public. What does that gain them?

"Hey folks... You were right... Tinsley really is a hard-headed assclown and he's trying to sabotage the Atlanta deal. Don't you worry... we're gonna discipline him for this!"

That'll really help their ability to move him? If they can keep things on the down low then there's a chance they could still 'fix' things or ship him elsewhere. The fans might feel good to see him disciplined... but that would be shortlived compared to the euphoria of seeing him gone...

--

Of course none of this means this rumor is true in the first place....
It will be nice when the Pacers can be a team where things like this can't get any traction because the players have better character than some of these guys and destructive stuff is not so easily believable.

-Bball

vapacersfan
07-24-2006, 10:30 PM
he didn't get to veto the Sacto trade. He was sent and it gained him nothing to miss those games or to throw his fit.


He may not have gained anything, but he made sure he hurt the Pacers on his way out

I have read/heard a couple of times that there were other players/draft picks on the table, but Ron messed that up by "vetoing" the trade, so to speak.

Bball
07-24-2006, 10:37 PM
He may not have gained anything, but he made sure he hurt the Pacers on his way out

I have read/heard a couple of times that there were other players/draft picks on the table, but Ron messed that up by "vetoing" the trade, so to speak.

And IIRC the Pacers told him to take the deal or they would take steps to void his contract. That would mean a major ordeal (likely) with the union... a chance to give Stern an option for a lifetime ban... and a major label of 'damaged goods' and 'uncontrollable' that might finally be to a point he couldn't come back from. ...It wouldn't have made him a free agent with suitors lined up to sign him to large multiyear contracts. It could be a career killer. At best, he'd be facing starting at the bottom with a scarlet letter on his jersey.

-Bball

Naptown_Seth
07-24-2006, 10:52 PM
Nap... you need to think harder on this. HYPOTHETICALLY: If the Pacers were actively trying to get rid of Tinsley and he balked at an Atlanta trade then their initial move might not be to make that public. What does that gain them?

"Hey folks... You were right... Tinsley really is a hard-headed assclown and he's trying to sabotage the Atlanta deal. Don't you worry... we're gonna discipline him for this!"

That'll really help their ability to move him? If they can keep things on the down low then there's a chance they could still 'fix' things or ship him elsewhere. The fans might feel good to see him disciplined... but that would be shortlived compared to the euphoria of seeing him gone...
But you are forgetting a MAJOR point here. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT. Does anyone here have the narcisstic fantasy that they are more in the know than Jerry West, or Cuban, or Riley?

So if we already know, they already know. His rep is already out there if some goofs like us know it. We aren't closer to insider info than other GMs are.



Now over in the Kevin Lee on WIBC thread I just thought of something and posted it, but its more relevant here. Here's the theory...

What if the PG that refused to go to Atlanta was ANTHONY JOHNSON? I just said how the team WOULD move the problem player, would take action ASAP. Well AJ is gone, and for a song, and just shortly after this refusal would have taken place.

AJ and the TE was a MUCH bigger rumor regarding AL the last few weeks than Tinsley for AL was (was that even out there?) AJ, Foster or both was mentioned many times.


And you have the other angle, why trade AJ if Tinsley just refused a physical? You need MORE protection against Tinsley's future antics if this kind of thing was true.

The response to Ron acting up was to kick him off the team, not to keep him and trade Granger in order to make the Pacers more vulnerable to Ron's antics.


But if it was AJ....the results we've seen make tons of sense. The "wierd" trade that confused a lot of people, seemingly sending AJ off for nothing. People guessed at a salary dump, even though the Pacers weren't really in such a spot.

AJ refused ATL, Pacers had things lined up which is why WTHR did the "done deal" story, AJ balked and the Pacers went into repair mode and altered the package which is why the delay of an announcement despite tons of rumors that its basically done. At the same time they said GET THE :censored: OUT to AJ and shipped him off to Dallas.

Sorry Tins haters, but that story makes a ton more sense to me.

jjbjjbjjb
07-24-2006, 11:01 PM
What if the PG that refused to go to Atlanta was ANTHONY JOHNSON?

Haha! That would be a tasty story. :lollypop:

Anthem
07-24-2006, 11:04 PM
Now over in the Kevin Lee on WIBC thread I just thought of something and posted it, but its more relevant here. Here's the theory...

What if the PG that refused to go to Atlanta was ANTHONY JOHNSON? I just said how the team WOULD move the problem player, would take action ASAP. Well AJ is gone, and for a song, and just shortly after this refusal would have taken place.

AJ and the TE was a MUCH bigger rumor regarding AL the last few weeks than Tinsley for AL was (was that even out there?) AJ, Foster or both was mentioned many times.


And you have the other angle, why trade AJ if Tinsley just refused a physical? You need MORE protection against Tinsley's future antics if this kind of thing was true.

The response to Ron acting up was to kick him off the team, not to keep him and trade Granger in order to make the Pacers more vulnerable to Ron's antics.

But if it was AJ....the results we've seen make tons of sense. The "wierd" trade that confused a lot of people, seemingly sending AJ off for nothing. People guessed at a salary dump, even though the Pacers weren't really in such a spot.

AJ refused ATL, Pacers had things lined up which is why WTHR did the "done deal" story, AJ balked and the Pacers went into repair mode and altered the package which is why the delay of an announcement despite tons of rumors that its basically done. At the same time they said GET THE :censored: OUT to AJ and shipped him off to Dallas.

Sorry Tins haters, but that story makes a ton more sense to me.
Actually, that makes quite a bit of sense.

bulletproof
07-24-2006, 11:40 PM
You guys are nuts.

PacerMan
07-24-2006, 11:50 PM
I can't wait for the pro-Tinsley faction to explain this, you know how it is all Carlisle's fault. In fact if Tinsley hated carlisle so much why doesn't he want to go to Atlanta


There are plenty of us that are pro-Tinsley that don't think Carlisle has done anything wrong.
Your last statement works against you anti-Tinsley guys by the way.

GO!!!!!
07-25-2006, 12:05 AM
Intresting

first i thought maybe this was a deal with the Mavs to sweeten the kitty for the Cro trade but now Seth mentions that well that could be the case...

Having said that it's off season so keeping AJ for a week or two longer isen't a real drama..

It could have something to do with the Mavs more then anything, maybe they traded Q with a conditon for first rights on any pacer guard if required

Naptown_Seth
07-25-2006, 12:28 AM
You guys are nuts.
Look, my first reaction was to blast the original rumor.

However Kaufman suggested that there was plenty about it that was right, but also a few things that were off.

I thought of this AJ version and when I looked at it from that angle the situation made tons of sense. Any other way it seems pretty odd. I mean just the timing of the AJ deal, now that we've seen it become official while the Harrington deal lingers undone, suggests it really was its own thing and not a 3 team deal with ATL for Harrington.

As a stand alone its nice that DA is coming here, I get that space had to be made, but AJ could have been moved for more than he was. It sure seemed surprising and rushed.

Plus this version doesn't require huge leaps of logic. It seems like a very natural progression of events in which all parties are taking reasonable action, rather than the Pacers letting some player back them down and out of a trade without any consequences.


And I am as reasonable as they come, and also willing to admit fault. Kaufman could show up and say "no way man, you are WAY off, and I would have to concede. It's just a thought born from the actions and the rumor that started this thread. I certainly am no AJ basher, at least as long as this rumor is completely wrong as are Kevin Lee's comments. That would alter my view of him a little.

Part of me thinks that stuff like this never happens, but then you find out that it does but never gets to the public completely. Among the NBA circles, yes, but not the public.

Anyway, I will agree that it could all be just what GO!!! says, just some angle on the Q/AC deal or something.

Will Galen
07-25-2006, 12:54 AM
I thought of this AJ version and when I looked at it from that angle the situation made tons of sense. Any other way it seems pretty odd. I mean just the timing of the AJ deal, now that we've seen it become official while the Harrington deal lingers undone, suggests it really was its own thing and not a 3 team deal with ATL for Harrington.



Your senario does make more sense than the rumors we are hearing.

However, if it were me I wouldn't reward AJ by then sending him to Dallas, an NBA finals team.

Then again maybe I would because Dallas wanted AJ to be their third point guard behind Harris and Terry.

spazzxb
07-25-2006, 12:57 AM
Actually, that makes quite a bit of sense.

except why would they do him the favor of sending him to a contendor if it was punishment? Why would they rush to make him happy.

Naptown_Seth
07-25-2006, 02:28 AM
Your senario does make more sense than the rumors we are hearing.

However, if it were me I wouldn't reward AJ by then sending him to Dallas, an NBA finals team.

Then again maybe I would because Dallas wanted AJ to be their third point guard behind Harris and Terry.
Since Spazz also mentioned it, I already addressed this question of "why reward him?"

My answer was "its not about him, its about the Pacers". This was proved out by Ron Artest. He was sent to a good team. Not great at the time, but clearly with good ownership and tons of talent. That team DID make the playoffs and was a good situation for Ron to go to in comparison to other options.

Heck, Indy was going to send Ron to a very strong Clippers team till they balked at Magette's health. Think about that. Why would they "reward" Ron? Because the attitude is "GTF out". You want YOUR situation to improve and passing on that chance just to show a player is flat out retarded and non-productive toward your own goals.

Ron went out of conference and the Pacers got something that could help them, though the biggest impact wasn't from the immediate deal.

AJ went out of conference and its possible that the impact has less to do with DA as a player and more to do with contracts or his lockerroom impact. It wasn't "punishment", it was removing a cancer, a player that just refused to go to Atlanta. You really want to keep a player like that around?



BTW, one other thing I just thought of. I did say "well maybe this AJ thing was an agreed upon deal in order to make the AC deal". On second thought I realize this is just stupid.

You are dealing with Dallas already. You are talking about what you might want, etc. Names are mentioned, salaries discussed. You don't say "I'll do the AC deal now, but you have to trade AJ to me in a few weeks." You just trade them at the same time.

Seriously, how many teams do multiple player deals with each other but break them into 2 deals a few weeks apart? There is NO REASON for sneakiness or delay and no reason to rush AC out the door either if you aren't done with the AJ situation.

Nope, the only reason AJ didn't go WITH AC is because SOMETHING (doesn't have to be my theory) changed since the last deal. AJ for Armstrong wasn't part of the AC/Daniels deal because there was no good reason for it not to be in the first place.


I'm just asking for logic. You are Dallas and you are talking trade. Why wait? Why trust Indy to send you a PG later when you can just not deal till that is worked out and then deal both?

It makes no sense that way. I'm sure there is a way it does make sense and it doesn't have to be this theory, but there is an explanation that when you hear it doesn't sound like "yeah...i guess, but...WTF"

Could be that Daniels said "Armstrong is the greatest, get him, etc" and talked them into such a deal, who knows.

Ragnar
07-25-2006, 09:40 AM
I can't wait for the pro-Tinsley faction to explain this, you know how it is all Carlisle's fault. In fact if Tinsley hated carlisle so much why doesn't he want to go to Atlanta

So now this is FACT?

Unclebuck
07-25-2006, 09:56 AM
So now this is FACT?


No it certainly isn't but when you are discussing something within a thread, sometimes you assume something is true for sake of discussion.

FrenchConnection
07-25-2006, 09:57 AM
Let me just add to Seth's comments. If AJ is such a good guy, why did he fail to get along with the player directly ahead of him in the rotation on two occasions? He is a prototypical backup PG that fails to accept his role. Now, I am not saying that Tins is a positive influence on the team or something like that (I along with others here have observed his anti-social behavior in pre-game warmups), but I think that our impression of AJ as a good influence on team chemistry may be off.

btowncolt
07-25-2006, 10:02 AM
Shenanigans! I call shenanigans!

RWB
07-25-2006, 10:03 AM
but I think that our impression of AJ as a good influence on team chemistry may be off.

So you're really saying AJ may have said "change the coach and not the culture after all"? :D

See, everyone heard it right the 1st time.

The Hustler
07-25-2006, 10:32 AM
hmmmmm ....

The PG being AJ makes sooo muchmore sense ... if Tins could go to atlants on his contract and be one of the main guys hell i think he would go ... would also give in a insight into why we couldnt get any draft picks or proven players out of Mavs the second time round ... having said that this is all crazy consiparcy talk .... interesting as it is ... lets not condem either AJ or Tins for it yet!

At least it aint a boring offSeason!

jjbjjbjjb
07-25-2006, 04:30 PM
I asked the guy who posted this on RealGM whether it could have been AJ and not Tinsley. (Keep in mind, his source for all this is a friend of someone on the Pacers' training staff.)

He posted:


I asked him again if he meant AJ instead of Tinsley due to how random AJ got traded and how it could look like he was punished for refusing to be traded to Atlanta for Harrington and instead they traded him to Dallas for something. He reasserted it was Tinslesy/1st for Harrington that was the deal in place on last Thursday and at the last minute Atlanta backed out of the trade.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=549297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=84

:shrug:

rexnom
07-25-2006, 04:54 PM
I asked the guy who posted this on RealGM whether it could have been AJ and not Tinsley. (Keep in mind, his source for all this is a friend of someone on the Pacers' training staff.)

He posted:



http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=549297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=84

:shrug:
I still can't fathom why Tinsley wouldn't want to go to Atlanta where he would be given a new chance and a starting PG job for sure. I'm just going to have to look past this because there is no real evidence here.

btowncolt
07-25-2006, 04:56 PM
Shenanigans! I call shenanigans!

Smart man.

bulletproof
07-25-2006, 05:23 PM
No it certainly isn't but when you are discussing something within a thread, sometimes you assume something is true for sake of discussion.

When did this happen?

Naptown_Seth
07-25-2006, 05:37 PM
I still can't fathom why Tinsley wouldn't want to go to Atlanta where he would be given a new chance and a starting PG job for sure. I'm just going to have to look past this because there is no real evidence here. I agree, though I appreciate someone asking the guy.

I was going with the version that in total made the most sense. Keeping a player that knew you chose another guy over him and who refused to let you trade him??? And not only that, but also trading your protection PG if this same player decides to hold out for some other reason?

I'm begging anyone to explain how that makes sense because to me that's like throwing your parachute out of the plane when one of your engines starts to fail.


I'd be a lot more likely to beleive that NO PG REFUSED anything, than to believe that Tins refused so they quickly traded AJ. If Tinsley refused to take a physical and we are hearing about it here, who thinks that any GM in the NBA doesn't also know about it? So why keep him on the roster or deal with it at all? Why trade your other starting PG?

So I vote complete BS instead then. After all, didn't Kaufman say we'd be pleased at how LITTLE Indy was going to give up roughly before the time this would have gone down? A person might not like Tinsley, but its still not a "little"...especially in salary. AJ is "a little". Of course I think something about an injury prone player getting a physical was also said....

Why would Indy give up that much salary AND use the TE. Get ATL to take MORE at that point and save your TE for someone else. Tins/Foster and then use the TE for Bonzi or save it for awhile to see what shows up.

EDIT TO ADD...
If this stuff is true as rumored then the choices seem very, very odd. To me it sounds like they ARE REWARDING Tinsley. "oh, go ahead and stay here then and we'll trade AJ for you, sorry about that sir".

vapacersfan
07-25-2006, 05:40 PM
I am to lazy to go back and find it, but BP made a post a while ago (not sure if it was days or even weeks) about "inside sources".

I, like anyone else, love to get the inside scoop, and I always welcome any and all comments. Hell, part of the guy of being a fan is being able to speculate.

But I do think its important to realize that these "sources" are only so reliable. Even if you high ups in any company, and I can say I have personal experience with this, you wont get the whole story. Sure you may get a few hints about this or that, but most of them are just as careful to make sure they dont say something they are not as you or I are at our job.

I didnt really beleive this at all, but I thought it was interesting. But the fact this guy, who has a friend who is on the "medical staff" knows that it was indeed not AJ, but most def. Tinsley strikes me a odd. That just doesnt seem like something you would know unless you had the phones tapped and were listening to the conversation.

:twocents:
----------------------------------------------------------

I agree, though I appreciate someone asking the guy.

I was going with the version that in total made the most sense. Keeping a player that knew you chose another guy over him and who refused to let you trade him??? And not only that, but also trading your protection PG if this same player decides to hold out for some other reason?

I'm begging anyone to explain how that makes sense because to me that's like throwing your parachute out of the plane when one of your engines starts to fail.


I'd be a lot more likely to beleive that NO PG REFUSED anything, than to believe that Tins refused so they quickly traded AJ. If Tinsley refused to take a physical and we are hearing about it here, who thinks that any GM in the NBA doesn't also know about it? So why keep him on the roster or deal with it at all? Why trade your other starting PG?

So I vote complete BS instead then.

Agreed, but then it goes back to my point the other day, when Kaufman quickly came in and said maybe they are doing something but are just keeping it on the DL.

Who knows :whoknows:

AesopRockOn
07-26-2006, 06:36 AM
When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight
you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya
Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor
Well - we don't believe you, you need more people

Takeover?