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View Full Version : I can't be critical after posting this yesterday.: who the Pacers should take



Unclebuck
06-27-2006, 11:11 PM
I probably should just bump the thread from a year ago because I say the same thing every year whenever annyone asks me who the Pacers should take.

Take the player who has a chance of being the best player in this year's draft in 5 years. Take a chance, don't take the safe pick.

I would much rather the Pacers swing for the fences and strike out then to see them get a sure single.

That is why I'll never criticize the Pacers for drafting Bender. TPTB thought he was going to be a star, yes Wally was the safe pick and yes JB is out of the league and Wally is still playing, but I will not criticize the Pacers for drafting the player they thought was going to be a star. Obviously the Pacers made a mistake, but that is OK by me.

I don't have the slightest idea who might be a star in this years draft, but I'd advise Bird to to take a chance on a guy. If a guy has a 20% to be a star vs a guy who has a 100% of being a decent player, take the 20% chance everytime.

Some of you will no doubt disagree with me, but I believe strongly in this approach. And it isn't about taking a HS kid or a guy who has a troubled past or even a guy who has "potential". Look at last year, it so happened that Granger was both the safe pick and the player who was going to be the best player.

Chauncey
06-27-2006, 11:14 PM
co-sign

Anthem
06-27-2006, 11:17 PM
I can go with that.

bulletproof
06-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Best post I've read around here in a loooong while.

wooolus
06-27-2006, 11:21 PM
Brandon Roy? Rudy Gay?

Pig Nash
06-27-2006, 11:26 PM
co-sign

QFT

purdue101
06-27-2006, 11:33 PM
if you're looking for a potential star at 17 then you have to think about shawnee williams or rondo. both have great size for their positions and both are athletic freaks.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 11:37 PM
if you're looking for a potential star at 17 then you have to think about shawnee williams or rondo. both have great size for their positions and both are athletic freaks.

Yeah, I think I'm hoping for Rondo at 17 tommorow.

If he made the most of his explosiveness, he could be quite the player.

jjbjjbjjb
06-27-2006, 11:42 PM
Agreed. You can only play five players at a time in the NBA, so to win you need two or three or four of them to be SPECIAL. If you're going to win a championship, you have to be constantly asking "How can I get a guy who's so good he turns one of my current starters into a rotation player?"

That said, there's also some truth to the idea that drafting the high schoolers doesn't work because they take 3-4 years to get ready, by which time you lose patience or they need a change of scenery. But of course, with the new 19-year-old rule, that's not an issue.

Jermaniac
06-27-2006, 11:42 PM
And that will be Shawne Williams

purdue101
06-27-2006, 11:44 PM
Yeah, I think I'm hoping for Rondo at 17 tommorow.

If he made the most of his explosiveness, he could be quite the player.

he's hands down the best defensive pg in the draft. no one even comes close. he's quick and can get to the basket at will. he has enourmous hands which cause a lot of deflections. he is also an amazing rebounder.........he put up some monster numbers on the boards. his only knock is he can't shoot for ****.

shawnee is a good prospect, but he plays very similar to DG.

sene is another reach at 17.

jjbjjbjjb
06-28-2006, 12:12 AM
Not that I've seen these guys play -- I don't watch much college hoops -- but from what I've read, I'm feelin' the Rondo pick too. He sounds completely weird, like having a Tayshaun Prince at the one. :stirthepo

Robertmto
06-28-2006, 12:29 AM
I still think that guy is Adam Morrison.

Young
06-28-2006, 12:47 AM
Yeah, I think I'm hoping for Rondo at 17 tommorow.

If he made the most of his explosiveness, he could be quite the player.


QFT.

I'm like you, i'm hoping for Rondo.

Frank Slade
06-28-2006, 09:24 AM
And that will be Shawne Williams

Agreed, if you are looking to snag a potential star in the mid first round Shawne Williams is your guy.. Still very young at 20 and raw, but gifted athletically, has a good jumper. The only drawback, which does not concern me , but I am sure it does for some is he is very similar to Granger in size and versatility of the positions he can play. Not as good defensively, but perhaps a better stroke and ball handling skills.


Was on a well balanced Memphis team, so his stats do not jump out at you necessarily.

Plus he has been a winner on the teams he has been on


Played the 2004-05 season for Laurinburg Prep, a team that recruiting analysts/publications have called the top all-time prep squad ... Helped lead Laurinburg to a 40-0 record and the 2004-05 prep school national championship ... No. 1 Laurinburg Prep defeated No. 2 Hargrave Military Academy 95-83 for the national title


Earned Tennessee All-State first team honors in 2002-03 ... Named MVP of the AAU National Championship in the summer of 2003, helping lead the Memphis YOMCA team to the 17-and-under national crown.


Played in the Reebok/EA Sports Roundball Classic All-Star Game (Chicago) and The Jordan Classic (New York) following the 2004-05 campaign ... Had 12 points, one rebound and two assists for the West Team in the Roundball Classic (West won 136-119) ... Netted 15 points for the Gray Team in the Jordan Classic (Gray won 127-126) ...

Steve McQueen
06-28-2006, 09:34 AM
Shawne Williams is yet another SF folks. Why, oh why, would we want another SF?

The answer is Rajon Rondo, I was the man originally beyond the Rondo to Indy bandwagon and I see I've got some followers. The man is a physical speciman the likes of which the Pacers have never seen at the point guard position. Lightning quick, bird-like wingspan, enormous hands, he can jump through the roof. He's a more athletic Tony Parker. Im also pretty positive Rondo is the man Bird has been interested in from day #1.

D-BONE
06-28-2006, 09:37 AM
Agreed, if you are looking to snag a potential star in the mid first round Shawne Williams is your guy.. Still very young at 20 and raw, but gifted athletically, has a good jumper. The only drawback, which does not concern me , but I am sure it does for some is he is very similar to Granger in size and versatility of the positions he can play. Not as good defensively, but perhaps a better stroke and ball handling skills.


Was on a well balanced Memphis team, so his stats do not jump out at you necessarily.

Plus he has been a winner on the teams he has been on

I opined in the draft thread I'm hoping for either Rondo or Williams. Mainly due to their athleticism and upside.

I see today's Star has us picking Alexander Johnson with both Rondo and Williams still on the board. He's my third guy I'd really like, but I'd opt for either of the other two before him though.

Seems to me like there's a chance Williams could see at least some time at the 2 given his skill set. Any comments from those who are more informed/familiar with his game than myself?

Fool
06-28-2006, 09:43 AM
Some of you will no doubt disagree with me, but I believe strongly in this approach.

I most certainly disagree with this as a concrete rule. As a general guideline I'm fine with it (then again, there are plenty of things that would pass for "general guidelines" that I would be fine with) but there are numerous occasions where passing up players for long shot superstars is a poor move.

PacerFreak31
06-28-2006, 09:43 AM
Rondo would be awesome but if we do take him I would hope we can trade tinsley, AJ, or SAR and get a draft pick around where we are now or move up even higher. I think if Riddick is there then we will take him. It would at lest be a tough decision between him or Rondo if both are still there. I have a feeling that Brewer will go to Rockets because he can play defense which is why I don't think JJ will go to Rockets and if he makes it past Orlando then It think he will fall to us... But will he fall past us?

Frank Slade
06-28-2006, 09:48 AM
I opined in the draft thread I'm hoping for either Rondo or Williams. Mainly due to their athleticism and upside.

I see today's Star has us picking Alexander Johnson with both Rondo and Williams still on the board. He's my third guy I'd really like, but I'd opt for either of the other two before him though.

Seems to me like there's a chance Williams could see at least some time at the 2 given his skill set. Any comments from those who are more informed/familiar with his game than myself?

Oh yes no doubt, He is more of a true swingman than Granger. Memphis had a number of G/F's on the team so due to his height he played mostly in the frontcourt.

To comment on Rondo though, I would be thrilled to get him Chad Ford commented yesterday on how he believed he was better than Willaism and could turn out to be the best PG in this draft , especially given his amazing quickness.

Chauncey
06-28-2006, 09:51 AM
I see today's Star has us picking Alexander Johnson with both Rondo and Williams still on the board. He's my third guy I'd really like, but I'd opt for either of the other two before him though.

?

That would truly be a bad pick, with a lot of the most recent mocks having Alexander Johnson falling to the mid-2nd round where he could possibly still be on board for the pacers at #45.

bulldog
06-28-2006, 11:00 AM
Take the player who has a chance of being the best player in this year's draft in 5 years. Take a chance, don't take the safe pick.

I would much rather the Pacers swing for the fences and strike out then to see them get a sure single.






Thus, isn't it better to try to draft a guy that could potentially become a take-over-games player? Obviously, the odds are low at #17, but shouldn't that be the strategy? I know advocating picking on potential isn't popular, but I'm OK with a swing and a miss every once in a while, particularly when an obvious contributor like Danny Granger isn't available.

For this year, I'd advocate picking Rondo. Lots of athleticism and potential, he could become a game-changer.


I agree.

btowncolt
06-28-2006, 11:10 AM
Rondo couldn't learn how to shoot even if he hung with Zach Randolph.

Jermaniac
06-28-2006, 11:49 AM
Shawne Williams is yet another SF folks. Why, oh why, would we want another SF?

He can play the 2, at least I think he can play the 2.

Steve McQueen
06-28-2006, 11:54 AM
Rondo couldn't learn how to shoot even if he hung with Zach Randolph.
Neither could Tony Parker, and it hasn't seemed to hurt his game much.


He can play the 2, at least I think he can play the 2.
Yeah, I've read that, but truthfully I doubt it. It's most likely just hyperbole.

Sollozzo
06-28-2006, 11:54 AM
That is why I'll never criticize the Pacers for drafting Bender. TPTB thought he was going to be a star, yes Wally was the safe pick and yes JB is out of the league and Wally is still playing, but I will not criticize the Pacers for drafting the player they thought was going to be a star. Obviously the Pacers made a mistake, but that is OK by me.




Yes, but Marion is that type of player that you're talking about. He's everything the Pacers probably hoped that Bender would be.

It's not drafting Bender that recieves most of the criticism here anyway. It's the contract he got a few years ago.

Unclebuck
06-28-2006, 10:34 PM
I cannot be critical of the pacers taking Williams after posting this yesterday

Jermaniac
06-28-2006, 10:36 PM
And that will be Shawne WilliamsOMG Why am I so good. I dont know why but this once again proves WHY I'm Dat Dude.

D-BONE
06-28-2006, 10:36 PM
True. This crossed my mind as soon as we picked. Definitely swinging for the fences with the 17.

Young
06-28-2006, 10:38 PM
I cannot be critical of the pacers taking Williams after posting this yesterday

Well you could.

Considering that there was a lottery talent on the board in Marcus Williams. Not only is he more proven but IMO he has more upside than Shawne. Just because Shawne is a great athlete doesn't = great upside, but that's JMO.

Unclebuck
06-28-2006, 10:40 PM
Well you could.

Considering that there was a lottery talent on the board in Marcus Williams. Not only is he more proven but IMO he has more upside than Shawne. Just because Shawne is a great athlete doesn't = great upside, but that's JMO.



You might be right, but the Pacers were taking the pick and they must take whoever they think is going to be the best player.

Hicks
06-28-2006, 10:42 PM
They took your advice, and ran out of MSG , past Conseco, down to California, turned around, and ran as far as Forrest Gump with it.

FrenchConnection
06-29-2006, 10:33 AM
You might be right, but the Pacers were taking the pick and they must take whoever they think is going to be the best player.

You know what UB, as soon as they announced the pick I thought of you! At 17 in a weak draft, you have to draft on potential. You want to shoot for the stars and try to get a real gem. If it does not work out, PLEASE DON'T EXTEND HIS CONTRACT. The mistake with Bender was not picking him, but rather extending his contract.

Shade
06-29-2006, 10:46 AM
The problem is, with Peja and Granger on the team, we won't know what we have with Shawne for a VERY long time.

JayRedd
06-29-2006, 10:55 AM
The problem is, with Peja and Granger on the team, we won't know what we have with Shawne for a VERY long time.

Peja is not a Pacer anymore. And until Bird makes a stupid offer and he gets his jersey back, you've got to assume that he's not on the team. (Let's hope this is the case.)

Steve McQueen
06-29-2006, 11:06 AM
Well you could.

Considering that there was a lottery talent on the board in Marcus Williams. Not only is he more proven but IMO he has more upside than Shawne. Just because Shawne is a great athlete doesn't = great upside, but that's JMO.
Fat, slow, unathletic point guards arent gonna cut it in the NBA anymore. Thats probably why so many teams passed on Marcus and his "lottery talent".

aceace
06-29-2006, 03:45 PM
My thoughts about taking Williams and White seemed to drift toward us not re-signing Peja. Time will tell but it could be a cya later Peja we got you covered your 29 now and your games not getting any better. We don't want to lock up 60-70 million on an injured knee.

Dab
06-29-2006, 05:41 PM
OMG Why am I so good. I dont know why but this once again proves WHY I'm Dat Dude.


You are the jerManiac

Jermaniac
06-29-2006, 05:54 PM
Yesur

FlavaDave
06-29-2006, 06:02 PM
Marcus Williams = Jamaal Tinsley.

larry
06-29-2006, 06:59 PM
Agreed. You can only play five players at a time in the NBA, so to win you need two or three or four of them to be SPECIAL. If you're going to win a championship, you have to be constantly asking "How can I get a guy who's so good he turns one of my current starters into a rotation player?"

That said, there's also some truth to the idea that drafting the high schoolers doesn't work because they take 3-4 years to get ready, by which time you lose patience or they need a change of scenery. But of course, with the new 19-year-old rule, that's not an issue.

Tim Leglar always says
"if you want to get special in this league you've got to take a chance."
hahaha
I just want to see the Pacers win it all in my lifetime.