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Pacersfan.
06-26-2006, 06:18 PM
Pretty much goes as we expected...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060626/SPORTS04/606260432
3:38 PM June 26, 2006

Pacers' Stojakovic becomes free agent


By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com
Indiana Pacers forward Peja Stojakovic opted out the final year of his contract today, making him a free agent.

The three-time All-Star, who said during the regular season he would take that action, was scheduled to make $8.2 million next season.
The free agent negotiating period begins July 1, and teams can start signing players July 12. Pacers officials have said they want to re-sign Stojakovic, who was acquired from Sacramento for Ron Artest on Jan. 25.

"We are going to see what's out there and listen to what other teams have to say, but Peja is the Pacers to lose," Stojakovic's agent, David Bauman, said. "The contract he signed before was done as a restricted free agent, so he didn't really get a chance to test the market."

Stojakovic, 29, who made $7.6 million this past season, hopes to get a raise and lock in a long-term contract. The Pacers can sign him for up to six years, while other teams can only sign him to a five-year deal.

"Anyone that says it's not about money is a liar," Bauman said. "Peja is going to get his big contract. Peja likes the Pacers because they have a base to build off. . . . Peja is a guy that can give a lot more than what he showed last year."

Stojakovic averaged 19.5 points and shot 46 percent from the field in 40 games with the Pacers. He missed four of the six games against the New Jersey Nets in the first round of the playoffs with a right knee injury. The Pacers were 0-4 in those games. Bauman said Stojakovic's knee is completely healthy.

Anthem
06-26-2006, 06:27 PM
"Anyone that says it's not about money is a liar," Bauman said. "Peja is going to get his big contract. Peja likes the Pacers because they have a base to build off. . . . Peja is a guy that can give a lot more than what he showed last year."
This does not give me a warm squishy feeling.

Peja is a good guy, but not a max-level player. Especially when he can't beat a Carlisle-coached rookie for PT in tight games.

D-BONE
06-26-2006, 07:08 PM
This does not give me a warm squishy feeling.

Peja is a good guy, but not a max-level player. Especially when he can't beat a Carlisle-coached rookie for PT in tight games.

Couldn't agree more. I hope we're careful with this. IMO we don't need a one-dimensional, fairly injury-prone, not that young anymore player in a long-term, big money contract. Will Peja work with us b/c he likes the Pacers som much or is it really just about the money?

blanket
06-26-2006, 07:11 PM
This does not give me a warm squishy feeling.

Peja is a good guy, but not a max-level player. Especially when he can't beat a Carlisle-coached rookie for PT in tight games.

reminds me of Brad Miller's agent

and we all know how that turned out

jjbjjbjjb
06-26-2006, 07:16 PM
Sign-and-trade, get him cheap, or let him walk.

I want nothing to do with anything that isn't one of those three.

Anthem
06-26-2006, 07:24 PM
I really don't think he can get much of a raise on the open market. Except for Toronto, nobody with needs at SF has any money to give. And with a new GM, I don't see Toronto throwing max money at him, not with a new sheriff in town.

Plax80
06-26-2006, 07:41 PM
I think the Pacers are confidently going to let him test the waters. There are very few teams under the cap and no one is going to put themselves in a luxury tax situation to sign the guy.

Miami may be a team that looks at him hard though. It may take something like 50mm over 5 yrs to bring him back. At those numbers he certainly is a risk, but one the Pacers can hardly avoid unless they have an alternative to spend the money on.

I don't see us losing him though, which may or may not be a good thing. Its getting another significant piece to team with AJ in the backcourt that is problematic.

I go get Josh Childress from the Hawks even if I have to sacrifice my #1 this season or next along with Tins to make it happen.

Resign freddie and a four guard rotation of AJ, Saras, jones, and Childress is promising.

ChicagoJ
06-26-2006, 07:45 PM
Resign freddie and a four guard rotation of AJ, Saras, jones, and Childress is promising.

:welcome:

Yeah... they're promising a trip to the lottery.

Yuck.

Instead, let's find some guards that work well with JO. Peja might be one of those, for the right price (and a willingness to play in the backcourt.)

But probably not. Of those four guards you mentioned, the only one I'm interested in is Childress.

Bball
06-26-2006, 07:47 PM
Did anyone really expect his agent to say:

"We know the Pacers need to save cash and so we intend to take only as little as they feel comfortable offering. As for other teams, please do not bid on Peja's services. If you'd like to make an offer, please wait until after the Pacers decide if they want Peja and what they feel they can pay. If the Pacers decide to go another direction then we'll consider other teams. This isn't about money, it is about the love of the game. Peja would play for coach Carlisle for free if the CBA allowed it."

-Bball

BoomBaby31
06-26-2006, 09:33 PM
I don't think he is going to get a huge deal from anyone. I'm sure the lakers are looking at him but, the pacers going to end up signing him. IF HE ISN'T HEALTHY DO NOT SIGN HIM. I hope we don't sign him if he's not COMPLETELY healthy

Anthem
06-26-2006, 09:46 PM
Did anyone really expect his agent to say:

"We know the Pacers need to save cash and so we intend to take only as little as they feel comfortable offering. As for other teams, please do not bid on Peja's services. If you'd like to make an offer, please wait until after the Pacers decide if they want Peja and what they feel they can pay. If the Pacers decide to go another direction then we'll consider other teams. This isn't about money, it is about the love of the game. Peja would play for coach Carlisle for free if the CBA allowed it."

-Bball
Nope. But did you really expect his agent to say "Anyone that says it's not about money is a liar. Peja is going to get his big contract?" Because I sure didn't.

The thing that gets me is he's opting out of an 8mil/year contract in order to get a "big" one. 10mil/year is only a slight increase over 8... I really think he's looking for max money. And he's not worth that (to us, anyway).

Los Angeles
06-26-2006, 09:55 PM
I say let him walk. At any price. :shrug:

Kegboy
06-26-2006, 09:59 PM
He's gonna get a stupid money offer. Count on it. The FA market is poor and lot's of teams have money. Let him walk, or do an S&T. Hell, I don't know if I'd be willing to pay him anything over the 8.2 he gave up. Not after that **** he pulled in the playoffs.

FrenchConnection
06-26-2006, 10:04 PM
Nope. But did you really expect his agent to say "Anyone that says it's not about money is a liar. Peja is going to get his big contract?" Because I sure didn't.

The thing that gets me is he's opting out of an 8mil/year contract in order to get a "big" one. 10mil/year is only a slight increase over 8... I really think he's looking for max money. And he's not worth that (to us, anyway).

He's looking for contract lenghth. And no one will give him max money because he is not a max player. He'll be in Indiana next year because the way things are shaking out all of the teams that would have been interested appear to be going in another direction. And for all the people that are saying things like "after what he pulled in the playoffs," how do you know the extent of his injury? There are knee injuries that you simply cannot play on. We don't know.

D-BONE
06-26-2006, 10:20 PM
If he had/has a knee injury that was too bad to play on vs NJ then that's just another good reason not to invest much in him. And I don't just mean money, I'm talking time. I can't see a 5 or 6 year deal at this point. Maybe 2-3 for reasonable money. I don't want to be tied up forever with Peja.

ESutt7
06-26-2006, 10:40 PM
He'll get a long term deal from us. Hopefully reasonably priced. When Granger is ready to just take over I hope Peja is effective enough to trade for some value. I'd hate to overpay on Peja. But I don't want to just let him walk, I think he and JO are good for each other. Sign him for a fair amount, or S&T him. We can't get NOTHING for Artest...

bulletproof
06-26-2006, 11:20 PM
We can't get NOTHING for Artest...

Why not? I never had a problem with getting nothing for Artest. In fact, I would have shopped him or cut him after the brawl—never allowed him back in a Pacers uniform.

Doug
06-26-2006, 11:22 PM
Peja is a guy that can give a lot more than what he showed last year."


Sounds like he's a lazy underachiever who won't give 100% unless he feels like it... And he wants MORE money? I think he should be giving us a refund.

:-)

Hicks
06-26-2006, 11:29 PM
I can honestly see the negatives in keeping him or shipping him. Ultimately, I think we have to try hard to keep him. It's not easy for us to get a player this talented, and he fills a major need.

VF21
06-26-2006, 11:42 PM
This does not give me a warm squishy feeling.

Peja is a good guy, but not a max-level player. Especially when he can't beat a Carlisle-coached rookie for PT in tight games.

Peja's agent is a class-A jerk. And yes, it IS all about the money. Or, more precisely, all about Bauman's percentage of Peja's money.

Young
06-27-2006, 12:59 AM
Lets look at all the teams and see if they could use Peja:

Atlanta: No, they have enough forwards.
Boston: No, not with PP/Wally.
Charolette: No, they are a young team, they won't want a veteran high salary player like Peja right now.
Chicago: I think they would rather spend their dollars on a big. I think they did show some interest in Peja before so who knows?
Cleveland: I doubt they have much interest in Peja, if any.
Dallas: I don't see them interested in Peja. They have Josh Howard at the 3.
Denver: I think they could have some interest in Peja actually. A Melo/Peja combo could be interesting for them. It would have to be a s&t though with a third team getting Kenyon Martin and us getting ?.
Detroit: No.
Golden State: They prolly don't want Peja. They can get a better fit IMO.
Houston: I think that they would have some interest in Peja. They could use a third scorer badly.
LAC: No. They probably wouldn't want to pay him.
LAL: They might have some interest in Peja. He would probably fit in nice with the triangle.
Memphis: No. Although I read the Grizzles are looking to make some changes I doubt Peja is the answer to their problems.
Miami: Yes. I know that Peja has a home or something in Miami and had interest in playing there before I believe. He would fit in well their, IMO. They don't have the money to sign him and probably don't have the player(s) to get him in a s&t.
Milwuakkee: No. They have Reed/Simmions. I think they will look for depth there but will look to cheaper opitions instead of Peja.
Minnesota: Yes. They need a lot of help. They would probably be pretty easy to trade with too.
New Jersey: No. They have VC and RJ at the 2/3, they don't need Peja.
New York: No. Peja isn't a IT guy and they sure as heck don't need another swingman.
New Orleans: No. I doubt they want veterans at a high salary right now.
Orlando: No. They are re building with younger guys, Peja wouldn't fit in IMO.
Philadelphia: No. Peja doesn't fit into their team.
Phoenix: Possiably but I doubt it.
Portland: No. They probably wouldn't want to pay him.
Sacramento: No.
San Antonio: I doubt it. I think he would cost to much.
Seattle: Nope, I don't see how he would fit in with that team.
Utah: Maybe but I doubt it.
Washington: No, they have Butler/Jamison/Jefferies at the forwards, where does Peja fit in? He doesn't.

With all of that said I think there are 2 good destinations for Peja in a sign and trade, Houston and Minnesota.

Houston could offer a deal with Stromile Swift. Maybe Mutombo or Sura. The Wolves would probably offer a deal involing either Davis, Jaric, or Hassell and then maybe Mark Madsen. Remember these would be sign and trades so don't expect a draft pick or Luther Head or Rashard McCants.

I really do expect Peja to re-sign with us though. I don't think any team would value him as much as us.

PacerFreak31
06-27-2006, 03:04 AM
With all of that said I think there are 2 good destinations for Peja in a sign and trade, Houston and Minnesota.

Houston could offer a deal with Stromile Swift. Maybe Mutombo or Sura. The Wolves would probably offer a deal involing either Davis, Jaric, or Hassell and then maybe Mark Madsen. Remember these would be sign and trades so don't expect a draft pick or Luther Head or Rashard McCants.

I really do expect Peja to re-sign with us though. I don't think any team would value him as much as us.

Of all the teams that you said which ones actually are UNDER the cap? Most of these teams are over the cap so the most they could offer him is the MLE and we could easily offer that to him. The only way Peja's market value goes up is if a team at least 10 million or more UNDER the cap offers him a contract for as much. If a team is just 2 or 3 million under that is still all they can offer him would be how ever much they are under the cap. So again it may be a weak market but not many teams can even offer him 8 million + even if they are interested, As one poster said it is more about the years offered than it is the money.

CableKC
06-27-2006, 03:13 AM
I am not entirely fond of giving Peja 7.5 to 8.5 mil ( or even more ) over 6 years.

I sense another Brad Miller for Pollard type trade happening.

I see 4 teams that can do some type of deal with....Minny, Warriors, Hornets or the Clips.

All 4 teams either need to upgrade their SF position ( Ws and Clips ) and/or need a top tier player that can get them over the Playoff hump ( Hornets and Minny ). With the exception of the Warriors.....all these teams need significant help with their perimeter offense and 3pt shooting.

Jose Slaughter
06-27-2006, 03:59 AM
all these teams need significant help with their perimeter offense and 3pt shooting.

like we don't?

able
06-27-2006, 06:13 AM
I am simply amazed at the thinking of some around here, heck, i don't even think your ideas would work in a fantasy league, let alone THE league.

Let's face a few facts:
Peja is a proven All Star
Peja work(ed) well with JO, despite them playing together shortly
Peja is one of the top 10 SF's in this league
there are 30 teams in this league, so a 1 - 3 chance of getting a top 10 player per position
Top 10 players come at a price
Peja is 29 years old
Peja is a top 3 shooter in the leauge, so a 1 - 10 chance of getting someone like that
Peja has shown he is a lot more "complete" then many of us had even guessed

In short: 6 years 60 mio to 75 mio wlil be the outcome (my guess is 75) and it is definitely worth it.

I would like to see (thanks Jay) the impact he can have on a line-up with Tinsley (who i very seriously doubt will be traded) Granger? JO Harrison, draft a SG as a C will take to long to develope, and if you can't get rid of Jax then make him 6th or 7th man a role which he is likely far better at anyway.

Pacres should keep Peja, forget about the injury he had in the playoffs, it is not like we really now what he had and why would he risk aggrevating an injury like JO did when he played on his bad ankle, when going into free agency, it is not like he owed the franchise anything, so I fully understand what he did, and think it is silly to blame him for it.

RWB
06-27-2006, 06:57 AM
For the majority of players it's all about the money, excluding aging former star players looking for a ring who already got their's.

Still put me in the camp saying we need to sign re-sign Peja and yes I agree with Able's figures. Maybe it's JO's contract that's hard to swallow?

Anthem
06-27-2006, 08:44 AM
In short: 6 years 60 mio to 75 mio wlil be the outcome (my guess is 75) and it is definitely worth it.
able, I appreciate the degree to which you defend our players. It's a good thing, and I'm glad you do it.

But Peja's 29 and already breaking down. You really think he'll be worth 14mil/year when he's 35? No way.

I'd be more than happy to give him a 4yr/40mil contract. If we start going much past that, I'll be unhappy.

Tim
06-27-2006, 09:02 AM
:D
This does not give me a warm squishy feeling.
It makes me feel pretty good!
Peja is a good guy, but not a max-level player. Especially when he can't beat a Carlisle-coached rookie for PT in tight games.

So let someone else pay him and replace him with that rookie!



Couldn't agree more. I hope we're careful with this. IMO we don't need a one-dimensional, fairly injury-prone, not that young anymore player in a long-term, big money contract. Will Peja work with us b/c he likes the Pacers som much or is it really just about the money?


ITS ABOUT THE MONEY! SHOW HIM THE MONEY, SOMEBODY ELSES MONEY!!!!!

Start Danny Granger, now!


I say let him walk. At any price. :shrug:


You are the man! Start Danny now.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 10:05 AM
If you guys want the Pacers to be anywhere near a contender, we have to re-sign Peja. Granger isn't that good yet.

Jon Theodore
06-27-2006, 10:38 AM
i hope we can sign Peja for less than everybody thinks we are (possibly) going too.

Hopefully his playoff injury scared other teams out of signing him. I personally want him to stay here. Sarunas is going to be MUCH better this year after being integrated (see Nocioni's first year vs second year shooting %). A lineup with Sarunas, Jack, Peja, Granger all on the wings really opens things up for JO or whoever is holding down the middle.

If Jermaine is not being double teamed he is a force to be reckoned with. We need to build a team that makes teams pay for double teaming JO.

Young
06-27-2006, 11:39 AM
Of all the teams that you said which ones actually are UNDER the cap? Most of these teams are over the cap so the most they could offer him is the MLE and we could easily offer that to him. The only way Peja's market value goes up is if a team at least 10 million or more UNDER the cap offers him a contract for as much. If a team is just 2 or 3 million under that is still all they can offer him would be how ever much they are under the cap. So again it may be a weak market but not many teams can even offer him 8 million + even if they are interested, As one poster said it is more about the years offered than it is the money.

Have you ever heard of a sign and trade? That is what i'm talking about because the teams that I know that have cap money probably wouldn't want Peja except maybe the Bulls keyword being maybe.

brs14ku
06-27-2006, 11:47 AM
I say let him walk. At any price. :shrug:

He is about as worthless as worthless can be to our team IMO. We need to turn the corner to a more youthful team and signing him at all, let alone to the fat contract he turned down or more, would just be stupid. He can't play D, never has been able to, completely one dimensional. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he doesn't rebound.....why exactly do we need this guy for 8.2 mil or more? If we can get him for 4 or less, then we should take him to play off the bench and give us some scoring because we all know that is all he is good for.

Anxiety
06-27-2006, 11:52 AM
If we can get him for 4 or less, then we should take him to play off the bench and give us some scoring because we all know that is all he is good for.


What are you on??

RWB
06-27-2006, 12:30 PM
He can't play D, never has been able to, completely one dimensional. He can't pass, he can't dribble, he doesn't rebound.....

Maybe going a little bit overboard don't you think with Peja ranking 3rd on the team in rebounds?

Average RPG 05-06 season

Jermaine 9.3
Foster 9.1
Peja S 6.3
Austin 5.3
Granger 4.9
Pollard 4.8
Jackson 3.9
Harrison 3.8

Hicks
06-27-2006, 12:30 PM
I'm convinced some of you would never pay market value for anybody not of Wade's calibur. It costs a lot to keep good players.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 12:32 PM
I have lightened up on Peja. I still want us to try and sign and trade him for someone who could help at the guard spots, but keeping him isn't the worst thing. I saw so many softies contribute this postseason that I'm not near as worried about Peja anymore.

RWB
06-27-2006, 12:46 PM
Back on the rebounding thought, here are the RPG numbers for some other players at Peja's position during the 05-06 season. Reminder...Peja 6.3

All Harrington 6.9
Wally Szczerbiak 4.3
Andres Nocioni 6.1
Lebron James 7.0
Carmelo 4.9
Tayshaun Prince 4.2
Toine Walker 5.1

I'd say Peja's rebounding is not a concern at this point.

grace
06-27-2006, 12:48 PM
Personally, I'd rather keep Pollard. At least he's entertaining.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 12:51 PM
Rommie, when I read your comment about Miami, I thought, "A S&T for James Posey would work for me."

:twocents:

(Of course, I don't know what Posey's contract is... so I reserve the right to change my mind.)

Anthem
06-27-2006, 01:18 PM
I'm convinced some of you would never pay market value for anybody not of Wade's calibur. It costs a lot to keep good players.
Nope. I'm fine with paying market value. The question is, what's the market value for a 29-year-old broken-down shooter that disappears in the playoffs?

I don't think Peja's going to get a 6-year max contract from anybody not named Larry Bird.

Hicks
06-27-2006, 01:37 PM
Calling him a "broken-down shooter that disappears in the playoffs" is looking at the man with tunnel vision.

And max contract? 75mm sounds about right, and that is far, far from max.

Steve McQueen
06-27-2006, 01:42 PM
Rommie, when I read your comment about Miami, I thought, "A S&T for James Posey would work for me."

:twocents:

(Of course, I don't know what Posey's contract is... so I reserve the right to change my mind.)
James Posey for a 3-time All-Star in the prime of his career? :laugh:

jjbjjbjjb
06-27-2006, 01:45 PM
Calling him a "broken-down shooter that disappears in the playoffs" is looking at the man with tunnel vision.

Yeah, saying that he only "disappears" might suggest that he is still actually there, just invisible. But I'm quite sure he wasn't there at all during the playoffs just concluded. It's the playoffs, and you are being paid millions. Play, then heal up over the several months you have off thereafter.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 01:46 PM
If we lose Peja I'm going to be pissed.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 01:51 PM
James Posey for a 3-time All-Star in the prime of his career? :laugh:

But that is the kind of thing that we would have to take in a s&t. Everyone talks as if this should work like a regular trade, but in fact we would be lucky to get Chris Mihm and Brian Cook from the Lakers or Posey from the Heat.

Also, just imagine Peja on the Heat. He could just stand out on the arc, wide open, and take kick outs from Shaq and Wade about 8 times a game. He hits four of those per playoff game and he will remove his stigma.

RWB
06-27-2006, 01:53 PM
Too bad about Peja and his passing...........Looks like the entire team needs lessons.

APG for the 05-06 season

Tins 5.0
Johnson 4.3
Sarunas 3.0
Jackson 2.8
JO 2.6
Freddie 2.3
Peja 1.7
Croshere 1.2
Granger 1.2
Foster .8
Harrison .2

CableKC
06-27-2006, 01:56 PM
like we don't?
Yeah....but I would prefer to look for a cheaper 3pt shooting option then end up tying up about 7.5 to 8.5 mil ( or even more ) for 6 years in a 29 year old player that will likely be able to give us a good 3-4 years before breaking down.

I am not entirely against resigning Peja...I just don't want to signifincantly overpay him. But if we end up moving ( at least ) SJax and ( hopefully ) Tinsley....then I may warm up to resigning him....that way, at least I know that he will get more touches.

Hicks
06-27-2006, 02:04 PM
Guys, there is no perfect scenario when signing somebody. You will never find this mythical "perfect" player who won't be old by the end of the contract, or doesn't *insert aspect of the game here* or whatever. There's always something not ideal. Your standards are too high.

Anthem
06-27-2006, 02:10 PM
Calling him a "broken-down shooter that disappears in the playoffs" is looking at the man with tunnel vision.

And max contract? 75mm sounds about right, and that is far, far from max.
It comes out to an average of 12.5 million dollars per year, and lasts until he's 35 years old. Be honest with me, Hicks. Do you think Peja's going to be worth 15mil/year at 35?

-----

I HATE MULTIPLE REPLY MERGE! Anyway, assuming a yearly raise of 10%, here's how a $75mil contract works out over 6 years.

Year 1 9.72
Year 2 10.69
Year 3 11.76
Year 4 12.94
Year 5 14.23 <-This is bad, bad news.
Year 6 15.65 <-And this is worse.
Total 75.00

Hicks
06-27-2006, 02:13 PM
He's as worth 15mm for his final year as JO is worth 23mm his final year.

What's more, that will be the last year of his contract. Those have great trade value.

Anthem
06-27-2006, 02:16 PM
He's as worth 15mm for his final year as JO is worth 23mm his final year.

What's more, that will be the last year of his contract. Those have great trade value.
Jermaine's likely to still be playing at a high level on the last year of his contract. Peja doesn't have a chance.

And ending contracts are only valuable when they're of a reasonable size. The big ones never get used in trades.

RWB
06-27-2006, 02:23 PM
While we're at it doesn't Peja's shooting % concern everyone?

FG % 3P% FT%

.461 .404 .903 Peja
.460 .308 .699 Andrei Kirilenko
.491 .458 .845 Rip Hamilton
.418 .346 .857 K.Hinrich
.450 .347 .850 K.Bryant
.493 .319 .812 R.Jefferson
.495 .171 .783 D.Wade
.480 .406 .901 Dirk

Bball
06-27-2006, 02:29 PM
I'm sensing some of the same things I started hearing about the Pacers circa 1999...2000...

I think there are those that don't think Peja necessarily fits what we're trying to do... and then there are those that don't like Peja because he doesn't do tomahawk dunks, 360 spin moves, doesn't hang on the rim and pose, doesn't swat opposing teams shots into the bleachers, and no high flying slams starting at the FT line. Since he doesn't do those things he must be getting old and slow and is worthless and should be replaced by a 22 year old who will lead us to the promised land in a year or two.

We need to make sure we are valuing the proper things.

I have to agree with Able...
....except the part about Tinsley. ;)

-Bball

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 02:31 PM
James Posey for a 3-time All-Star in the prime of his career? :laugh:

You aren't very good at making a first impression, are you?

Okay, smartypants, what would you rather have in a S&T? Wade? Get real.

What did we get the last time we S&T'ed an all-star? A: Pollard. Getting Posey (a player I would've been happy with trading Artest for a few years ago) for Peja would be highway robbery relative to the precedent.

Anthem
06-27-2006, 02:31 PM
and then there are those that don't like Peja because he doesn't do tomahawk dunks, 360 spin moves, doesn't hang on the rim and pose, doesn't swat opposing teams shots into the bleachers, and no high flying slams starting at the FT line.
That's a load of crap. I like you, Bball, but that's absolutely not true.

There's not a person on here who fits that description.

EDIT: Except maybe Jermainiac.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 02:37 PM
You aren't very good at making a first impression, are you?

Okay, smartypants, what would you rather have in a S&T? Wade? Get real.

What did we get the last time we S&T'ed an all-star? A: Pollard. Getting Posey (a player I would've been happy with trading Artest for a few years ago) for Peja would be highway robbery relative to the precedent.

If we have to s&t, I am hoping that we ship Peja to LA for Chris Mihm. Before he got hurt, Mihm was really starting to come around for the Lakers. He will round into a solid 10/6 7-footer. I think that Posey would be good, but sending Peja and his shooting to the Heat would just make me sick. You might as well give them the rings for the next three seasons. However, Eddie Jones might be a good option as well. But you do have to think about a bit small when considering s&t options, because teams know that they have you over a barrel because the player usually has the option to go to a team with cap space.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 02:40 PM
You aren't very good at making a first impression, are you?

Okay, smartypants, what would you rather have in a S&T? Wade? Get real.

What did we get the last time we S&T'ed an all-star? A: Pollard. Getting Posey (a player I would've been happy with trading Artest for a few years ago) for Peja would be highway robbery relative to the precedent.

Why because he disagrees with you? He's right, why the hell would you sign and trade PEJA STOJAKOVIC for James Posey? Danny Granger is not better than Peja yet.

Bball
06-27-2006, 02:50 PM
That's a load of crap. I like you, Bball, but that's absolutely not true.

There's not a person on here who fits that description.

EDIT: Except maybe Jermainiac.

OK... I re-read what I wrote. I started out by saying I am "sensing" (I did not say "seeing"). And I am standing by it. Maybe you don't 'sense' it... I do get the feeling there is an undercurrent of that (not only in this thread but some other posts of late) with some posters.


-Bball

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 02:52 PM
Are LSL and McQueen the same guy?

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 02:56 PM
Why because he disagrees with you? He's right, why the hell would you sign and trade PEJA STOJAKOVIC for James Posey? Danny Granger is not better than Peja yet.

Thats crazy. Danny > Peja

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 02:58 PM
Are LSL and McQueen the same guy?

Yeah because I agree with him that Peja is worth more than freaking James Posey, that makes us the same person.


Thats crazy. Danny > Peja

Right now?! Are you serious? For real you guys think way too highly of him. He could end up being better but wow, not now.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 02:58 PM
Yeah because I agree with him that Peja is worth more than freaking James Posey, that makes us the same person.

It's not just this. You guys are very similar. Postingwise anyhow

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 02:59 PM
It's not just this. You guys are very similar. Postingwise anyhow

Well that means about 75% of this board is the same person with the negative attitudes and hating everyone on the team but the ALMIGHTY Danny Granger.

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 03:01 PM
OK... I re-read what I wrote. I started out by saying I am "sensing" (I did not say "seeing"). And I am standing by it. Maybe you don't 'sense' it... I do get the feeling there is an undercurrent of that (not only in this thread but some other posts of late) with some posters.


-Bball

I dont "sense" that at all.

What I do sense in fan who have had the worst of luck the past couple of seasons, and are even more afriad of a GM/GM's taking a risk of another player that was an all-star, but has not played up to that level in a while, and not exactly being re-asured by the fact that he didnt play at all in the playoffs, a general big knock on him his whole career (Ill give you he didnt dissappear, but how can he dissappear when he is sitting on the bench)

So now, I still dont "sense" that BS you wrote about us being ESPN fans at all. I think the fans here are some of the most knoweldgable fans you will run across, and to generalize the way you did is a insult to all posters here.


Yeah because I agree with him that Peja is worth more than freaking James Posey, that makes us the same person.



Right now?! Are you serious? For real you guys think way too highly of him. He could end up being better but wow, not now.

Yes, for real.

You think way to highly of Peja, IMO. Either way, yes, I think Danny > Peja.

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Well that means about 75% of this board is the same person with the negative attitudes and hating everyone on the team but the ALMIGHTY Danny Granger.

Whatever you say, McQueen. ;)

Hicks
06-27-2006, 03:05 PM
I don't think Danny is better yet.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:05 PM
Whatever you say, McQueen. ;)

Yeah go ahead and check the IP addresses :rolleyes:

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:07 PM
This signing to me will tell a lot about the direction management want our team to go in and specifically the timetable they want to use.

IF they re-sign him they could be pretty serious about trying to be a 50% team (we are about that now, maybe slightly above) or a contending team with other reeinforcements of significance within a relatively short time span.

IF we S&T Peja then I think it's pretty likely we are going to a lengthier rebuilding process with draft picks and the sorts. Expect us to possibly not make the play-offs the next year if this happens.

IF we take option 1 then Peja is worth $10-11mln. on average per contract year to me. I think a 5 year contract at about $ 55mln. would be perfect for us, but rather unrealistic.

I think he is looking for 6 years $ 75mln. which is a little too much IMO. so, 6 years at about $68-70mln. or 5 years at about $60-61mln. (overpaying a little extra in the last or first year to compensate for not contracting him to a 6th year)? Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

I think personally we HAVE to resign Peja. We can always try to trade him later after we get an extra 3point shooter and after Danny has panned out like we hope to. IF we lose him, we are going to lotteryland, that's not even a discussion IMO.

This isn't the sort of player you just let walk for nothing or close to nothing (Posey) when you can prevent that.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:10 PM
Nope, he's not yet. But he will be soon.

I don't think we're contenders next season, with or without Peja. So we might as well build for the 2007-08 season, and with another year of experience, Granger *should* make Peja obsolete.

I don't see a need to prolong the agony. By the time we're competitive and "gelling" again, Peja will be a spare tire. But Posey would make a great sixth-man to backup both the PG and SG positions for a few more years.

I'd consider Mihm, too. But I'd want Foster gone if this team added Mihm.

I'll pose the same question to you, since you didn't answer it either. Who would you rather get in a S&T. And you need to name something reasonable for a S&T scenario - which is far different than a regular trade.


Yeah go ahead and check the IP addresses :rolleyes:

Weren't these two guys "duking it out" somewhere else recently? Or was that somebody else?

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:13 PM
Nope, he's not yet. But he will be soon.

I don't think we're contenders next season, with or without Peja. So we might as well build for the 2007-08 season, and with another year of experience, Granger *should* make Peja obsolete.

I don't see a need to prolong the agony. By the time we're competitive and "gelling" again, Peja will be a spare tire. But Posey would make a great sixth-man to backup both the PG and SG positions for a few more years.

I'd consider Mihm, too. But I'd want Foster gone if this team added Mihm.

I'll pose the same question to you, since you didn't answer it either. Who would you rather get in a S&T. And you need to name something reasonable for a S&T scenario - which is far different than a regular trade.

Are you asking me? I would not S&T Peja. I understand you don't give away an All-Star caliber player. Yes he is All-Star caliber, 19.5 ppg 6.3 rpg that came in half way through a screwed up season. He has not been able to give his best to the Pacers and Larry Bird did not bring him in here to rent for a year.



Weren't these two guys "duking it out" somewhere else recently? Or was that somebody else?

I haven't "duked it out" with anyone.

Hicks
06-27-2006, 03:14 PM
Posey a backup PG/SG? What planet are you posting from? The guy is a SF.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 03:16 PM
I dont "sense" that at all.

What I do sense in fan who have had the worst of luck the past couple of seasons, and are even more afriad of a GM/GM's taking a risk of another player that was an all-star, but has not played up to that level in a while, and not exactly being re-asured by the fact that he didnt play at all in the playoffs, a general big knock on him his whole career (Ill give you he didnt dissappear, but how can he dissappear when he is sitting on the bench)

So now, I still dont "sense" that BS you wrote about us being ESPN fans at all. I think the fans here are some of the most knoweldgable fans you will run across, and to generalize the way you did is a insult to all posters here.



Yes, for real.

You think way to highly of Peja, IMO. Either way, yes, I think Danny > Peja.

Danny has a long way to go before you can say that he is better than Peja. I really like Danny and I think that he will be a very good player in this league, but he averaged 7.5 ppg in 22.6 mpg. In the playoffs, he averaged 8 ppg in 27 minutes. In both cases those are significant minutes and fine numbers for a rookie. However, Peja can be a second scoring option, something which Danny is just not ready to be.

Also, an additional comparison could be constructive. Marvin Williams, considered a bust by most at this point in his career, averaged 8.5 ppg in 24.7 minutes. Don't give me the difference in draft position as a reason why one is a bust and the other is a potential all star. Where someone is drafted is irrelevant when considering building a franchise around them.

Doug
06-27-2006, 03:16 PM
Yeah because I agree with him that Peja is worth more than freaking James Posey, that makes us the same person.

Of course Peja is worth more than Posey, but consider that Peja is not ours to sell - he can just leave and we get *nothing*. That deflates his value in a sign-and-trade quite a bit. Especially if he is willing to take less that we can offer, say the max anybody else can offer. It would take a huge bidding war to give us any leverage at all.

Suaveness
06-27-2006, 03:16 PM
You aren't very good at making a first impression, are you?

Okay, smartypants, what would you rather have in a S&T? Wade? Get real.

What did we get the last time we S&T'ed an all-star? A: Pollard. Getting Posey (a player I would've been happy with trading Artest for a few years ago) for Peja would be highway robbery relative to the precedent.

I'd do that. Frankly, I'd rather have Granger start anyway. Posey would be a good defensive backup.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:19 PM
Are you asking me? I would not S&T Peja. I understand you don't give away an All-Star caliber player. Yes he is All-Star caliber, 19.5 ppg 6.3 rpg that came in half way through a screwed up season. He has not been able to give his best to the Pacers and Larry Bird did not bring him in here to rent for a year.

I agree that he's our best current player in terms of complimenting JO. But he's also aging rapidly.

I'd be happy to keep him for a short, high-dollar contract. Or a long contract that is a paycut from last year's salary.

But if we sign him to the "money contract" that his agent is looking for, then by the time we're competitive again, he's going to be "in the way" of Granger, with an untradeable contract.

You've got to think further down the road than the 2006-07 season. Peja's real "value" to the Pacers is that he's keeping the SF position warm until Danny's ready for it full-time. Do you think Peja is going to keep producing all-star caliber seasons for the next five-six seasons? I give him one more all-star caliber season, max.

Bball
06-27-2006, 03:20 PM
I dont "sense" that at all.



So now, I still dont "sense" that BS you wrote about us being ESPN fans at all. I think the fans here are some of the most knoweldgable fans you will run across, and to generalize the way you did is a insult to all posters here.



I'm not getting what you and Anthem are getting from what I wrote. Especially, what you just wrote above (highlighted).

Once again... here is what I said (I'll add a highlight):



I think there are those that don't think Peja necessarily fits what we're trying to do... and then there are those that don't like Peja because he doesn't do tomahawk dunks, 360 spin moves, doesn't hang on the rim and pose, doesn't swat opposing teams shots into the bleachers, and no high flying slams starting at the FT line. Since he doesn't do those things he must be getting old and slow and is worthless and should be replaced by a 22 year old who will lead us to the promised land in a year or two.

We need to make sure we are valuing the proper things.

I guess I see where you condensed that second part down to "ESPN fans" BUT I specifically mentioned there were two groups that I believe could be developing. Therefore, I did not lump all PD posters into one category. I didn't even mean to imply the "ESPN Fans" were the majority if that is what you (or anyone else) took away from it.

-Bball

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:20 PM
Also look at the fact that you want to trade Peja Stojakovic to the World Champs....for James Posey!

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:21 PM
I'd do that. Frankly, I'd rather have Granger start anyway. Posey would be a good defensive backup.

So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:22 PM
So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

Well James Posey can do it all.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:24 PM
Posey a backup PG/SG? What planet are you posting from? The guy is a SF.

:blush: Wow. That's my worst typo ever. Doesn't beat UB's "shot ****", but still...

I meant backup SF/SG.

Ooops.

(I was about to say, "of course he's a SF/SG, so is SJax" but I thought that was too obvious so then I saw my typo.)


So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

Hopefully no one. Hopefully they'll follow Danny's lead, step in, and shot the higher-percentage 16-20 footer.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 03:25 PM
So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

JJ Reddick!:D

Suaveness
06-27-2006, 03:26 PM
So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

The new SG we will hopefully acquire. If not, then nobody.

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:26 PM
Well James Posey can do it all.

Apparently. Especially since everyone wants Jax gone too and don't want to pay for Freddie.

So, that leaves us only with Sarunas as a good 3pt shooter, but not a great one either. And the MLE to sign a good one? I doubt that would do it, especially since we would need a much more complete player at the 2 to start for us if people want both Peja and Jax out. We would need a 2 that needs to be VERY able to shoot 3s AND be fast enough to defend at the perimeter at a high level. Well goodluck finding that player for the MLE or Jax.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Bball
06-27-2006, 03:28 PM
So, who is going to shoot the 3s for us then?

I've been asked to pass this along:



:wave:
Me Me Me!!!!!!

_Stephen Jackson



-Bball

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:28 PM
The new SG we will hopefully acquire. If not, then nobody.

Well, I'm sure JO and the other players working from a med range at most would be happy with that "not" option. I guess spreading the floor is overrated.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 03:30 PM
I kinda think that Peja is going to be signed to a reasonable contract.

That's cool by me, because then he can either step to the side when Danny is ready, or be traded for guard help.

I mean, when has his stock ever been lower? I don't think Peja should cost us an excessive amount.

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:30 PM
I've been asked to pass this along:

Originally Posted by Stephen Jackson

Me Me Me!!!!!!

_Stephen Jackson



-Bball

:lol2:

Everyone wants him gone too though.

So, what to do then?

Anthem
06-27-2006, 03:33 PM
I agree that he's our best current player in terms of complimenting JO. But he's also aging rapidly.

I'd be happy to keep him for a short, high-dollar contract. Or a long contract that is a paycut from last year's salary.

But if we sign him to the "money contract" that his agent is looking for, then by the time we're competitive again, he's going to be "in the way" of Granger, with an untradeable contract.

You've got to think further down the road than the 2006-07 season. Peja's real "value" to the Pacers is that he's keeping the SF position warm until Danny's ready for it full-time. Do you think Peja is going to keep producing all-star caliber seasons for the next five-six seasons? I give him one more all-star caliber season, max.
Well said. For the rest of this discussion, consider me Jay's mini-me.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:34 PM
Also look at the fact that you want to trade Peja Stojakovic to the World Champs....for James Posey!

Cute. I said,


"A S&T for James Posey would work for me."

Now, the only reason you're going to do a S&T with Miami in the first place is because Peja has already agreed to play there for the MLE. I thought that was obvious, so I didn't type it all out. So the real alternatives in this scenario are,

1) S&T with Miami, and Posey is pretty good compensation for that type of transaction, or

2) Let his sign with Miami with no compensation.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 03:34 PM
Stephen, we meant who was going to hit the 3s, not who was going to take them...

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:37 PM
Cute. I said,



Now, the only reason you're going to do a S&T with Miami in the first place is because Peja has already agreed to play there for the MLE. I thought that was obvious, so I didn't type it all out. So the real alternatives in this scenario are,

1) S&T with Miami, and Posey is pretty good compensation for that type of transaction, or

2) Let his sign with Miami with no compensation.

What? Where did this come from? Why Miami?

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:38 PM
I would rather let Peja walk then take Posey. I SERIOUSLY don't like his game AND attitude.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 03:38 PM
What? Where did this come from? Why Miami?

Because it is one of the places where Peja supposedly wants to play. He has a house there and his wife like the nightlife or something like that. This was all discussed at the time of the trade.

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 03:40 PM
I'm not getting what you and Anthem are getting from what I wrote. Especially, what you just wrote above (highlighted).

Once again... here is what I said (I'll add a highlight):



I guess I see where you condensed that second part down to "ESPN fans" BUT I specifically mentioned there were two groups that I believe could be developing. Therefore, I did not lump all PD posters into one category. I didn't even mean to imply the "ESPN Fans" were the majority if that is what you (or anyone else) took away from it.

-Bball

Fair enough.

As for whoever commented on my DG comment, I am never one to really get into who is better, but DG brings a lot more to the table then just scoring. And lets not forget he was a rookie.

Like Jay said, Peja is good, but if he gets a max contract, will he perform at a max level for the life of his contract. I dont think so, but maybe he will. I am willing to bet he wont, however. I would go as far as to say if he does give us 6 all star seasons as our number 1/1A/2 option, I will run around VA naked....................or not.

I am not sure who I would S&T him for, but if we resign him and let his stock rise and then trade him at the trade deadline, I would be fine with that as well. That is of course assuming managment is able to make a deadline trade

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:41 PM
What? Where did this come from? Why Miami?

I threw that out there in reply to rommie's great post about which teams might be interested in Peja.


Lets look at all the teams and see if they could use Peja:

-snip-Miami: Yes. I know that Peja has a home or something in Miami and had interest in playing there before I believe. He would fit in well their, IMO. They don't have the money to sign him and probably don't have the player(s) to get him in a s&t.



I could see Pat Riley pursuing Peja fairly aggressively for their "third scorer" role. But I dont want to take Walker or Jason Williams off their hands.

That's the only reason we're even having this conversation.

I never said, "I think it would be great if the Pacers could trade Peja to Miami for Posey." :rolleyes:

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 03:42 PM
No one is even suggesting that he will be able to get a max contract. A max contract would be 18 - 20 million per. He will get 10-12 per tops. Tyson Chandler money:D

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:45 PM
True. Clearly he's not getting a max contract. For purposes of this discussion, I think most of us are simply equating "any" pay raise over last season as "too high." Whether its a max contract or not.

Mourning
06-27-2006, 03:45 PM
No one is even suggesting that he will be able to get a max contract. A max contract would be 18 - 20 million per. He will get 10-12 per tops. Tyson Chandler money:D

:lol:

TheLemonSong
06-27-2006, 03:45 PM
Peja's agent is a class-A jerk. And yes, it IS all about the money. Or, more precisely, all about Bauman's percentage of Peja's money.
This is just a ridiculous comment. OF COURSE! It's all about the money...do you think he's hired to coddle NBA management? Or no, wait, maybe he should try to figure out how to minimize the amount of money he makes right? Even if the guy is the nicest guy in the world, he's still got a job to do.

It's almost funny to me when people think that the NBA is *more* about basketball than it is about money...I think the players play their hearts out to try to win a title and go down in the history books as a fantastic player, but I'm also well aware that these guys aren't doin' it for free! This is why Mark Cuban is a *genius*..he understood that people don't watch the NBA for the game itself, but rather for it's star-power and it's atmosphere/image.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 03:47 PM
I threw that out there in reply to rommie's great post about which teams might be interested in Peja.



I could see Pat Riley pursuing Peja fairly aggressively for their "third scorer" role. But I dont want to take Walker or Jason Williams off their hands.

That's the only reason we're even having this conversation.

I never said, "I think it would be great if the Pacers could trade Peja to Miami for Posey." :rolleyes:

So if all they have is the MLE why in the hell would the Pacers not match? Anyway it looks like Posey has a Player Option this year too.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 03:55 PM
Just because the Pacers have the right to match doesn't mean Peja has to accept it - if he's rather play for a contender in a city he has said he prefers.

He's been very outspoken before that he wants to move to a city with a large Serbain population, or at least more ethnic diversity.

Is money, culture, or basketball going to drive his decsion? Nobody knows. But basketball is clearly not always his #1 priority.

Anthem
06-27-2006, 03:56 PM
No one is even suggesting that he will be able to get a max contract. A max contract would be 18 - 20 million per. He will get 10-12 per tops. Tyson Chandler money:D
Nope. Check Coon's FAQ. Peja has 7 years completed in the league, so the highest starting salary he is eligable for is $14.4mil per year. If he'd been in the league one year less, his max starting salary would have been $12mil/year.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#11

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 04:01 PM
Just because the Pacers have the right to match doesn't mean Peja has to accept it - if he's rather play for a contender in a city he has said he prefers.

He's been very outspoken before that he wants to move to a city with a large Serbain population, or at least more ethnic diversity.

Is money, culture, or basketball going to drive his decsion? Nobody knows. But basketball is clearly not always his #1 priority.


"We're going to listen to other teams and what they have to offer [monetarily], as well as playing time and chances at a championship," Bauman said.


Of course, his agent has made it clear what his number 1 priority is.

FrenchConnection
06-27-2006, 04:18 PM
Nope. Check Coon's FAQ. Peja has 7 years completed in the league, so the highest starting salary he is eligable for is $14.4mil per year. If he'd been in the league one year less, his max starting salary would have been $12mil/year.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#11

That only counts for the first year. A Max contract would be like JO's, where he would be getting 20 million by the end of it.

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Huh? A "max contract" is just the maximium first-year salary with the maximum % salary increases. Yikes - if Peja signed a max contract at $14.4 with maximum increases and the maximum number of years, my math has him at $23.2 million in the last year. (14.4 x 1.10^5).

CableKC
06-27-2006, 05:26 PM
So....what is the likely yearly salary that Peja is going to command?

Are we talking 10-11 mil a year?

Ouch....that's a little too much for my taste. Even if we let SJax and Tinsley go....would we have enough to eventually resign Granger and Harrison?

I know that we dont really have to consider it for years...but having a 10 mil+ contract can really suck up the resources for years to come....and given the tight-wadedness of the Ownership....I don't want to see them go.

If we have to tie up so much $$$ in a single player...I would much rather do it with a younger player.

Sollozzo
06-27-2006, 05:40 PM
Thats crazy. Danny > Peja



No, saying "Danny>Peja", THAT'S crazy.

Granger is solid, but Peja is easily still a better player than Granger. Granger is good, but I think he get's a tad bit overrated here. That's not suprising though. Young players like Jones, Harrison, and Granger have always gotten overrated on this board. I doubt that the hype that has been displayed here about those 3 players (not Jones anymore, but a couple of years ago) is shared around the rest of the league with those who have neutral opinions.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-27-2006, 05:42 PM
No, saying "Danny>Peja", THAT'S crazy.

Granger is solid, but Peja is easily still a better player than Granger. Granger is good, but I think he get's a tad bit overrated here. That's not suprising though. Young players like Jones, Harrison, and Granger have always gotten overrated on this board. I doubt that the hype that has been displayed here about those 3 players (not Jones anymore, but a couple of years ago) is shared around the rest of the league with those who have neutral opinions.

Great Post! I'm glad someone else sees it!

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 06:01 PM
No, saying "Danny>Peja", THAT'S crazy.

Granger is solid, but Peja is easily still a better player than Granger. Granger is good, but I think he get's a tad bit overrated here. That's not suprising though. Young players like Jones, Harrison, and Granger have always gotten overrated on this board. I doubt that the hype that has been displayed here about those 3 players (not Jones anymore, but a couple of years ago) is shared around the rest of the league with those who have neutral opinions.

No, its not crazy. Its reality

Jermaniac
06-27-2006, 06:05 PM
Right now Peja is easily better then Danny. Danny will be a much better player in the future but right now Peja is better then him.

Sollozzo
06-27-2006, 06:48 PM
No, its not crazy. Its reality


Uh, it is? Ask a neutral party in the league if they think Granger is better than Peja. I think 99% of people would say Peja. It's simply ludicrous to say Granger is better on Peja at this point in time. Better in the future? Maybe. But definitely not right now.

able
06-27-2006, 07:30 PM
So....what is the likely yearly salary that Peja is going to command?

Are we talking 10-11 mil a year?

Ouch....that's a little too much for my taste. Even if we let SJax and Tinsley go....would we have enough to eventually resign Granger and Harrison?

I know that we dont really have to consider it for years...but having a 10 mil+ contract can really suck up the resources for years to come....and given the tight-wadedness of the Ownership....I don't want to see them go.

If we have to tie up so much $$$ in a single player...I would much rather do it with a younger player.


Uh let me see...... (OK no Bender reference here) Croshere, salary for 06-07 $9,560,000, alors, tien, and then "we" decide that Peja should make less because (fill in whatever you want, just don't come and tell me that Granger IS better, and though he has shown enough talent to perhaps one day be, there are a number of things that need to go right to hit the motherload and consider that we then have to give him a pay-day, so make up your mind)

I've listed the obvious and will add for the less understanding that even if we sign Peja to a 6 year deal it by no means means he is going to be here the entire term, IF Granger pans out, if not, hey what you have is hard to take away.

Hicks
06-27-2006, 07:37 PM
No, saying "Danny>Peja", THAT'S crazy.

Granger is solid, but Peja is easily still a better player than Granger. Granger is good, but I think he get's a tad bit overrated here. That's not suprising though. Young players like Jones, Harrison, and Granger have always gotten overrated on this board. I doubt that the hype that has been displayed here about those 3 players (not Jones anymore, but a couple of years ago) is shared around the rest of the league with those who have neutral opinions.

Come on out, Larry! :rolleyes:

;)

vapacersfan
06-27-2006, 07:39 PM
Uh, it is? Ask a neutral party in the league if they think Granger is better than Peja. I think 99% of people would say Peja. It's simply ludicrous to say Granger is better on Peja at this point in time. Better in the future? Maybe. But definitely not right now.

I asked my dog (who I might add is a die-hard Wizards fan) and he says DG :flirt:

ChicagoJ
06-27-2006, 09:24 PM
I'd rather ask them "Who would you rather build your team around?" and "Who would you rather give a huge contract to?"

I don't think that would net the same answer. Who really cares if Peja is still somewhat better than the rookie, today? Of course he is. :unimpress

bulldog
06-27-2006, 09:30 PM
To me, it's all about JO. If we're keeping JO, keep Peja, otherwise trade'em both and let's rebuild. It'd be silly to get 75 cents on the dollar for Peja, then have JO tie up our cap anyway. Granger'll get his minutes, don't worry, look at the Mavs and Heat, you can never have too many wing players. I'd be more worried if they played similarly, but they bring entirely different things to the table, just because they have relatively similar heights and builds doesn't mean they can't be on the floor together.

Slick Pinkham
06-27-2006, 10:58 PM
I threw that out there in reply to rommie's great post about which teams might be interested in Peja.



I could see Pat Riley pursuing Peja fairly aggressively for their "third scorer" role. But I dont want to take Walker or Jason Williams off their hands.

That's the only reason we're even having this conversation.

I never said, "I think it would be great if the Pacers could trade Peja to Miami for Posey." :rolleyes:

Interestingly, the south Florida ESPN station local guys interviewed a beat writer for the Miami Heat on the radio just today.

They discussed possible moves, and said perimeter shooting was a weakness that ought to be addressed. He specifically mentioned Peja as someone Riley would love to have in a sign-and-trade (they don't want to add salary, and Peja isn't interested in MLE money anyway).

When asked who they would part with, he said that Posey is a Riley favorite and is probably returning, but Antoine Walker could be used to get somebody like Peja.

:puke:

SoupIsGood
06-27-2006, 11:01 PM
Well, Walker does have championship experience now. :eyebrow:


:laugh:

ChicagoJ
06-28-2006, 11:19 AM
When asked who they would part with, he said that Posey is a Riley favorite and is probably returning, but Antoine Walker could be used to get somebody like Peja.

:puke:

The thought going through my head, in the first "Posey" post, was...

"Dear God, I don't want Walker (or J-Will), but who do they have that I like?"

Leisure Suit Larry
06-28-2006, 11:29 AM
If they traded Peja for any of those three I would have to take a long break from being a Pacers fan.

ChicagoJ
06-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Do you really believe Peja is/ will continue to be *that* valuable.

I see him as a nice compliment to JO, and a guy that can put up huge numbers in the right system. But that's all. He's not a guy I'd "build" around, and there a probably "more affordable" players that can fill his role. Granted, we don't have any of them on the roster currently, but there are plenty of them in the league.

PacerPerspective
06-29-2006, 08:38 AM
Does the drafting of Shawne Williams mean that Peja isn't as intent on re-sgning as we are lead to believe?

Frostwolf
06-29-2006, 01:03 PM
I don't think we can offer him more than the MLE? Seeing as how we're over the cap?

Anthem
06-29-2006, 01:12 PM
I don't think we can offer him more than the MLE? Seeing as how we're over the cap?
We have his Bird rights.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-29-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't think they expect Shawne Williams to be much yet. So why let Peja (19.5 ppg, 6 rpg) walk and give it all to a 2nd year player and a rookie?