PDA

View Full Version : Chad Ford's latest on the Pacers.



Will Galen
06-22-2006, 02:02 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2495754

Indiana Pacers

The Pacers are unhappy with how their team responded last season and have had conversations about blowing it up. That means Jermaine O'Neal, for the first time in his Pacers career, is not untouchable.

While rumors of a swap with the Raptors appear bogus, at least two teams might be willing to give the Pacers what they want for O'Neal: a high draft pick, a young prospect and salary-cap room for the summer of 2007.

The Bulls have a number of ways to make that scenario work. For instance, they could trade the No. 2 and Ben Gordon or Luol Deng for O'Neal, because they are under the salary cap.

The Hawks could offer a similar deal: the No. 5, Marvin Williams or Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia for O'Neal.

Young
06-22-2006, 02:06 PM
Both of those deals are very intriging, IMO.

I love the Bulls possiable deal, maybe because i'm a big on Ben Gordon and Luol Deng.

The Hawks deal wouldn't be bad either although I'm not that big on Williams or Smith. Marvin is still unproven although he did have a solid rookie year I haven't seen him enough to say i'd do that deal with the Hawks. Also, I would take a look and see what it would take to get Josh Childress in the deal too. 10 pts per game last year on 55% shooting from the field. 49% 3pt shooter but he didn't take over 100 3s.

I'd still be suprised if we deal JO. Either Donnie, Larry or the Simons will be reluctant to deal JO.

MSA2CF
06-22-2006, 02:07 PM
I am more than intrigued with the Bulls trade Mr. Ford has suggested.

Alas, no trade for O'Neal will happen, so it's better not to get my hopes up. :shrug:

edit: I didn't mean to practically repeat what you said, rommie...Guess we were writing our posts at the same time.

FrenchConnection
06-22-2006, 02:10 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2495754

Indiana Pacers

The Pacers are unhappy with how their team responded last season and have had conversations about blowing it up. That means Jermaine O'Neal, for the first time in his Pacers career, is not untouchable.

While rumors of a swap with the Raptors appear bogus, at least two teams might be willing to give the Pacers what they want for O'Neal: a high draft pick, a young prospect and salary-cap room for the summer of 2007.

The Bulls have a number of ways to make that scenario work. For instance, they could trade the No. 2 and Ben Gordon or Luol Deng for O'Neal, because they are under the salary cap.

The Hawks could offer a similar deal: the No. 5, Marvin Williams or Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia for O'Neal.

This is all pure speculation. The only kernel of truth in the whole thing is that JO could be traded if the right situation came along. And he gives no indication that he has a source on that one outside of the internet rumors. In both of those cases, the Pacers would be left with no post scoring at all.

This being said, the Hawks deal seems best if they were willing to give up on Marvin Williams so quickly. That is the sort of player that you would like to get, one on which a team rushes to judgement after picking what they knew would be a project. But I still would rather have JO.


I am more than intrigued with the Bulls trade Mr. Ford has suggested.

Alas, no trade for O'Neal will happen, so it's better not to get my hopes up. :shrug:

edit: I didn't mean to practically repeat what you said, rommie...Guess we were writing our posts at the same time.

Ben Gordon is a streaky jump shooter and Deng is a tweener. Don't really want either. But give me Gordon, Nocioni and the pick and now you are talking. It would take something really big to get the Pacers to trade JO within the division. But its not my decision, is it.

Will Galen
06-22-2006, 02:17 PM
Agree JO isn't going anywhere unless both those pots were sweetened with post players. I don't think either team has post players. Atlanta has Al, but he's a free agent. To bad you can't do sign and trades before the draft.

I will say this too, there will now be fresh rumors of JO getting traded again. Someone will write in a column that there are now rumors of JO going to Chicago. Someone will offer the observation that where there's smoke there's fire.

Another day another Internet rumor. Ah . . . make that two more Internet rumors.

diamonddave00
06-22-2006, 02:18 PM
You seem to be misreading the Bulls trade its Gordon OR Deng NOT BOTH in the proposed deal.

Neither Gordon nor Deng excite me enough to trade Jermaine.

Based on the two proposed deals the Hawks would be better acquiring a servicable young big man Pachula and a young forward along with the pick.

Personally I don't see either trade occuring.

Doug
06-22-2006, 02:21 PM
You know, the more I think about it the more I think it would take 2 first rounders and some young talent for JO.

I think we might actually be undervaluing him a bit on here due to his injury situation and his high salary. Of course, those things do hurt his trade value a bit, but I think we're overestimating the impact.

FrenchConnection
06-22-2006, 02:23 PM
Agree JO isn't going anywhere unless both those pots were sweetened with post players. I don't think either team has post players. Atlanta has Al, but he's a free agent. To bad you can't do sign and trades before the draft.

I will say this too, there will now be fresh rumors of JO getting traded again. Someone will write in a column that there are now rumors of JO going to Chicago. Someone will offer the observation that where there's smoke there's fire.

This is how rumors start:

National columnist with a deadline makes up some things that "make sense" to him just to have something to say;
Other columnists pick that up and report it as the truth. "According to ESPN's Chad Fraud, ..." And finally;
Ron Artest gets mad and demands a trade.I just hope that JO has thicker skin.

Arcadian
06-22-2006, 02:34 PM
I'm always open to a player being traded if it makes a team better.

However, now is not the time to trade JO. His stock is at an all time low, this draft is bleh and draft picks are always over valued at this time of year.

D-BONE
06-22-2006, 02:44 PM
Also, I would take a look and see what it would take to get Josh Childress in the deal too. 10 pts per game last year on 55% shooting from the field. 49% 3pt shooter but he didn't take over 100 3s.


I'd say look to see if there's any way to get Childress in some other deal not including JO. I also am really big on him. Another guy worth inquiring about when we're looking into UB's Marquis Daniels suggestion I hope. Either of those guys could help us out.

McKeyFan
06-22-2006, 02:46 PM
However, now is not the time to trade JO. His stock is at an all time low.

But add another year and another mediocre season and it only gets lower.

Trade him while his value is as high as it is.

ChicagoJ
06-22-2006, 02:51 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

vapacersfan
06-22-2006, 02:58 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

No. But then again, I also thought Mo-Ron would get his act together.

Roy Munson
06-22-2006, 03:06 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

yes.

Bball
06-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

As the reigning Most Pessimistic Poster I am obligated to answer that "Yes, JO will have a 3rd straight "mediocre" (ha!) injury/suspension-plagued season"

But to be honest, I don't really think he'll be suspended. :zip:

If we don't design a new offense and make JO more a piece of the puzzle and not a whole section of the puzzle, then I see the team continuing to struggle. Of course if we don't put some new pieces around him we'll struggle no matter what.

-Bball

Los Angeles
06-22-2006, 03:13 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?
:wave:

Mourning
06-22-2006, 03:21 PM
I'm always open to a player being traded if it makes a team better.

However, now is not the time to trade JO. His stock is at an all time low, this draft is bleh and draft picks are always over valued at this time of year.

Aggreed! IF he can get through the coming season almost without injuries THEN we could entertain the thought of trading him IF we don't think he is worth keeping because of salary or leadership issues or whatever, OR we don't think he's going to lead us to the promised land.

At the sametime he could have rejuvenated both his career and our team, who knows. I think we should waite at the very least until the trade deadline in february.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

fwpacerfan
06-22-2006, 03:40 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?


I hope not. I don't know if he is going to be able to hold up for 82 games. He had a good durability record before the last 2 years so maybe it was a fluke. Tinsley is definitely injury prone and I don't think that will change.

Robertmto
06-22-2006, 03:52 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

umm....:peek: ME

Unclebuck
06-22-2006, 04:00 PM
There some other interesting stuff in Ford's article.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2495754&type=story


Trades might shake up draft, from top to bottom

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

With less than a week to go before the June 28 NBA draft, very few teams are on solid footing. Not only are most teams uncertain about who will be available when they make their pick, but also there is a major factor that is simply impossible for them to calculate accurately -- the trades that most think are coming.

Here's a take on the top prospects from an NBA team executive drafting in the high lottery.

"There are warts everywhere," he said. "Do you take a risk and go with upside or do you take a player who's going to be solid? Usually when you're drafting this high, you get a little of both. This year is different. I think there's one star, Adam Morrison. But he may not be the best player in the draft. I think this has led to all of the trade talk."

This "trade talk" is what could, more than anything else, upset everyone's expectations about how the draft will play out. After all, when you don't even know which teams are making the picks, how can you figure out who they're taking?

To try to sort things out, Insider has its ear to the ground, listening for trade rumblings. Here's what we're hearing about potential deals affecting the draft:




Toronto Raptors



Since the regular season ended, two small trades have gone down in the NBA, both involving the Raptors. Toronto sent Rafael Araujo to the Jazz for Kris Humphries and Robert Whaley. Then, on Wednesday, they sent Eric Williams and Matt Bonner to the Spurs for Rasho Nesterovic.

But just about everyone believes that another big trade is in the works, involving either the No. 1 pick or Charlie Villanueva.

So far, a number of rumors have popped up, involving Jermaine O'Neal, Samuel Dalembert, Jamaal Magloire and Brevin Knight. So far, all of them have been bogus.

Over the past few days, GM Bryan Colangelo has shot holes through all the scenarios. O'Neal would hurt their cap flexibility. Dalembert is overpaid. Magloire isn't worth the No. 1 pick. Knight isn't enough to motivate a swap of the No. 1 pick for Charlotte's No. 3 pick.

Colangelo reiterated on Wednesday that it would have to be something "much bigger" to move the pick at this point.

That probably shoots holes in some other trade scenarios currently out there.

The most popular has the Portland Trail Blazers packaging No. 4 and No. 30 along with Travis Outlaw or one of their young point guards to get up to No. 1. The deal would allow the Raptors to pick up a few extra assets and still be in a position to take Andrea Bargnani at No. 4. However, the word is that the Raptors aren't interested and that the Blazers are unwilling to sweeten the pot. They want Adam Morrison badly but apparently won't mortgage the franchise for a guy who could very well be there when they pick at No. 4.

The Houston Rockets have also tried to move up to get the No. 1 pick but just don't have the assets. Ditto for the Memphis Grizzlies. They'd be willing to offer just about anyone on their roster for No. 1 with the exception of Pau Gasol -- who is the only guy the Raptors would consider.

At this point, it appears the Raptors are leaning toward keeping the pick. But they're probably not done trading. Look for them to work a sign-and-trade deal to move Mike James this summer.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Chicago Bulls



Things have been pretty quiet in Chicago. Almost too quiet. The Bulls have more moveable assets than anyone else in the NBA at the moment. They have two very desirable first-round picks (No. 2 and No. 16), lots of young players with tradable contracts and a plenty of cap room this summer.

So are they going to make a deal?

A rumor that was floated last week had them talking with the Los Angeles Lakers about a deal that would send Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum to Chicago for Tyson Chandler and the No. 2 pick.

On Wednesday, a source said the Bulls might be considering trading the No. 2 pick and Chandler to the Phoenix Suns for Shawn Marion. With the pick, the Suns would select Tyrus Thomas. The move would help the Suns get the their salary-cap situation under control and allow them to re-sign Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa next summer.

More likely, the Bulls are keeping the pick and deciding between Thomas and Brandon Roy. A source in Chicago reiterated to Insider on Wednesday that they hadn't promised to draft Thomas and were still trying to decide which way to go.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Charlotte Bobcats



GM Bernie Bickerstaff has been active in trying to trade up or down in the draft.

The recently rumored swap that would send Brevin Knight and the No. 3 pick to Toronto for Alvin Williams and the No. 1 was shot down by Colangelo on Wednesday.

It's still unclear, however, what the Bobcats want to accomplish. With Michael Jordan in a decision-making role, will they dump their strategy of building slowly through the draft and opt for a more aggressive approach that brings in veterans?

At this point, the Bobcats look more and more likely to stay at No. 3. They are zeroing in on Roy, who's likely to be available when they pick.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Portland Trail Blazers



The Blazers might be happy at No. 4, but they'd be happier if they could move up to No. 1. Adam Morrison is the top guy on their draft board not only because of his talent but also because of his popularity in Portland.

The Blazers have created a huge gulf between the team and their fans, and drafting Morrison would definitely help bridge it. And their dream scenario is to find a way to get both Morrison and Brandon Roy. The Blazers have to do something to change their local image and their locker-room culture, and adding Morrison and/or Roy would be a huge step.

The problem is that the Blazers appear unwilling to give up the two guys most teams are interested in, Martell Webster and Jarrett Jack.

Instead, they are hoping that a combination of a young player plus No. 4, No. 30 and/or No. 31 will be enough. They have been shopping Zach Randolph, Darius Miles and Theo Ratliff, and they're willing to move some other players, as well.

I'm not so sure any of that will help the Blazers get Toronto's No. 1 pick. Whatever interest the Raptors might have in Travis Outlaw and Sebastian Telfair does not appear to be strong enough for the Raptors to give up the top pick, even with the Blazers' picks in the deal.

Look for the Blazers to get more suitors this summer when Joel Przybilla can be had via sign-and-trade.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Atlanta Hawks



Besides the Raptors, the Hawks have the most rumors swirling around them.

The hottest talk is that they promised to pick Shelden Williams. But, if so, when? Was it with the No. 5 pick? Or did they know they were trading down and wanted to try to improve their chances to get him in the lottery?

Or is it another team that has promised Williams and is ready to move up to No. 5 to get him?

One candidate might be the Philadelphia 76ers. The Hawks have interest in Allen Iverson, and the Sixers have interest in moving him. Sixers GM Billy King is a big fan of Williams and needs a young player to eventually replace the aging Chris Webber. Would the No. 5 pick and Al Harrington (via sign-and-trade) be enough for the Sixers to part with Iverson?

Another team could be the Seattle SuperSonics, who might be willing to offer Nick Collison and the No. 10 to Atlanta for the No. 5. The Sonics are also high on Williams, especially after losing their best rebounder, Reggie Evans, in February. With that pick the Hawks could get another forward and then take a point guard or combo guard -- UConn's Marcus Williams, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo or Villanova's Randy Foye -- at No. 10.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Minnesota Timberwolves



The Wolves have what it takes to get the No. 1 pick in the draft. All they have to do is say that Kevin Garnett is yours, and they get No. 1. But team president Kevin McHale says he's not trading Garnett and that no one at the top of the draft is worth Garnett.

However ... if the Raptors were to throw Charlie Villanueva into the deal and perhaps Mike James in a sign-and-trade, it might get more interesting.

The Wolves can get better offers, though. The Bulls and Warriors both have more assets than Toronto, if the Wolves want to deal. Right now it appears that they don't.

More likely, the team moves Marko Jaric and perhaps Ricky Davis to the Nuggets for Kenyon Martin.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Boston Celtics



The team doesn't have an acute need for the No. 7 pick, because it's unlikely the Celts can draft anyone there who can help immediately. Rather, they need veterans in the backcourt and in the middle who can help Paul Pierce and Wally Szczerbiak now.

But unless the Celtics can get a future pick (2007 first-round picks are highly valued right now), it appears unlikely Boston will trade its pick.

The alternative is trading Pierce, and the Celtics say they're not doing that.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Houston Rockets



The Rockets have made attempts to move up in the draft. Morrison, with a healthy Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming, would help make the Rockets instant contenders.

The problem is that, since the McGrady trade, the Rockets have had few assets to offer in a trade. Stromile Swift and Luther Head are possibilities, but neither player's trade value is that high at the moment.

More likely, the Rockets will try to trade down or out of the draft in exchange for a veteran. The Rockets are in win-now mode. With the exception of J.J. Redick, it's unclear anyone on the board can help them at No. 8.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Golden State Warriors



They are one of the most active teams in trade talks at the moment. The team they put together didn't gel, and the Warriors need to make some serious changes.

It appears that Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy and the No. 9 pick are the assets they're looking to move. However, considering the big contracts of Dunleavy and Murphy, they may have to include a young prospect like Andris Biedrins or Mickael Pietrus.

One rumored deal has the Warriors trading Dunleavy, Murphy and the No. 9 pick to the Lakers for Lamar Odom and Aaron McKie.

Another has the Warriors sending Pietrus, Murphy and the No. 9 to the Bulls for Tyson Chandler and the No. 16.

Utah could be another trading partner. A deal that would send Pietrus and Murphy to Utah for Carlos Boozer has been rumored since February.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Orlando Magic



Orlando has been trying to move up in the draft to get Brandon Roy. But it appears the Magic need to convince a team to take a combo of Hedo Turkoglu and the No. 11 pick, and they've been striking out.

Dwight Howard, Jameer Nelson and Darko Milicic are untouchable right now.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets



The Hornets have been trying to pair their two picks (No. 12 and No. 15), along with J. R. Smith, to move up high in the draft. There was speculation that Charlotte (No. 3) might be the trade partner, but that has been shot down by the Bobcats.

Another possibility might be the Rockets' No. 8 pick, though that offer sounds a little high just to move up a few spots. But the move could get them Patrick O'Bryant, the big man they're after. The Rockets need assets right now and might be willing to throw in Stromile Swift to make a deal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Philadelphia 76ers



We expect them to be among the most active teams this summer. Iverson is finally on the block. So are Chris Webber and Samuel Dalembert. The problem is that all three have terrible contracts, making it difficult for Billy King to do a good deal with anyone other than the Knicks.

A deal with Atlanta might be a possibility for Iverson. San Antonio has some interest in Samuel Dalembert. Moving Webber? Good luck.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Utah Jazz



The Jazz have been trying to package Boozer in a trade that gets them up into the top 10, with the goal of getting Brandon Roy or Randy Foye. But no one's biting.

One possibility might to be to package a future first-round pick (their own or the Knicks' future pick owned by the Jazz) in a trade for Seattle's No. 10 pick. The word is that the Sonics are trying to keep costs under control right now so they can sign Chris Wilcox. Still, it's unclear whether Foye would be on the board at No. 10.

Other interesting trade scenarios have cropped up for the Jazz. In particular, the Warriors, Lakers and Bucks have shown interest in Boozer.

The Bucks might be willing to part with Jamaal Magloire and Mo Williams in return for Boozer. That would be an intriguing deal for the Jazz, who could address their needs in the frontcourt and the backcourt in one fell swoop.

The Lakers deal probably would have to be a three-way trade: Boozer and the No. 14 going to L.A., with Odom ending up at another destination. Odom wouldn't be a great fit for Utah, but he could be the player to get them the two-guard they want.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Indiana Pacers



The Pacers are unhappy with how their team responded last season and have had conversations about blowing it up. That means Jermaine O'Neal, for the first time in his Pacers career, is not untouchable.

While rumors of a swap with the Raptors appear bogus, at least two teams might be willing to give the Pacers what they want for O'Neal: a high draft pick, a young prospect and salary-cap room for the summer of 2007.

The Bulls have a number of ways to make that scenario work. For instance, they could trade the No. 2 and Ben Gordon or Luol Deng for O'Neal, because they are under the salary cap.

The Hawks could offer a similar deal: the No. 5, Marvin Williams or Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia for O'Neal.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Denver Nuggets



The Nuggets are interested in trading Kenyon Martin (to the Knicks or Timberwolves) and Andre Miller (to the Celtics) to clear cap space or move up in the draft.

There also has been talk of Marcus Camby going to the Bulls in exchange for Tyson Chandler and the No. 16.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Miami Heat



The Heat are trying to use Dorell Wright to move up in the draft to get their hands on a Pat Riley favorite -- Guillermo Diaz.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Phoenix Suns



The Suns have been trying to package the No. 21 and No. 27 picks to move up. Their target is presumably a big man like Mouhamed Saer Sene or Hilton Armstrong, though Rajon Rondo and Sergio Rodriguez are also high on their list.

The Suns are willing to do a bigger deal if they can get into the top three. Leandro Barbosa can be had. The Suns love him but aren't sure they can afford to re-sign him next summer. Shawn Marion is a long shot -- a team would have to offer a great player and a high pick to get him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





New Jersey Nets



The Nets would love to be able to package the No. 22 and No. 23 picks to move up and get an athletic big man.

Another option would be to package Antoine Wright and Zoran Planinic with one of their picks to move up.

As for the rumors that Richard Jefferson is on the block, I'm told they're bogus.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





New York Knicks



Knicks president (and new coach) Isiah Thomas had just about everyone on the trading block along with the No. 20 and No. 29 picks.
However, unless Channing Frye is included in the deal (he won't be, according to a Knicks source), they probably won't be moving up significantly in the draft.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Memphis Grizzlies



After another first-round playoff exit, the Grizzlies are back at the drawing board. They desperately need a point guard and are still paper-thin in the middle.


I've heard that just about anyone on the roster, other than Pau Gasol, is available.


The Grizzlies have been trying to move up to get Adam Morrison. While he doesn't currently fit a need, maybe Jerry West has something else going on.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Los Angeles Lakers



The Lakers have been shopping Andrew Bynum and Chris Mihm. Lamar Odom can be had, too, but the price is significantly higher.

Their target in the draft? Brandon Roy.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kegboy
06-22-2006, 04:02 PM
While rumors of a swap with the Raptors appear bogus

Well, I would think so, considering he started them. :rolleyes:

ChicagoJ
06-22-2006, 04:12 PM
So then does everybody agree that JO was more durable when he was playing on the national team and playing year-round?

Maybe he needs to lose weight and get back on that team, because he was incredibly durable for a number of years, too.

How quickly you guys forget... :shakehead

And he's too young to say, "that was too much mileage for his body."

Since86
06-22-2006, 04:17 PM
And he's too young to say, "that was too much mileage for his body."

HUH!?

What you're body can take, and what my body can take are two different things.

What JO's body can take, and what, say, Tim Duncan's body can take are two different things.

There is no body mileage. Each person's body determines what they can/can't take.

He may have ran his course, I doubt it, but it's possible.

Will Galen
06-22-2006, 04:31 PM
Does anybody really believe JO will have a third-straight "mediocre" (ha!), injury/suspension-plagued season?

I think he will have another MVP type season.

The kid wants to be here. He's a good citizan. He says the right things. He works hard. I'm not in favor of trading him unless it's for a very good deal.

For instant this deal can't be done, but it's the type deal I would want.

Childress, Harrington, and the #5 pick. We keep #17.


Well, I would think so, considering he started them. :rolleyes:


Not exactly. He wondered in print if the Raps would be interested in JO, for Charlie V, and the #5. Other people said it was a rumor and ran with it.

I expect the same to happen with JO to Chicago or Atlanta.

Arcadian
06-22-2006, 04:35 PM
Wow and people say that there are Larry haters out there.

CableKC
06-22-2006, 05:07 PM
This is all pure speculation. The only kernel of truth in the whole thing is that JO could be traded if the right situation came along. And he gives no indication that he has a source on that one outside of the internet rumors. In both of those cases, the Pacers would be left with no post scoring at all.

This being said, the Hawks deal seems best if they were willing to give up on Marvin Williams so quickly. That is the sort of player that you would like to get, one on which a team rushes to judgement after picking what they knew would be a project. But I still would rather have JO.



Ben Gordon is a streaky jump shooter and Deng is a tweener. Don't really want either. But give me Gordon, Nocioni and the pick and now you are talking. It would take something really big to get the Pacers to trade JO within the division. But its not my decision, is it.

I would tolerate ( and be more then happy to live ) with a Gordon+Nocioni+#2 pick for JONeal.

We would just need capspace over the next couple of years to resign all of them.... :zip:

tdubb03
06-22-2006, 05:14 PM
The #5 and Josh Smith would make me listen.

Maybe. Smith would have to be a 6th man or a SG, which he isn't very capable of. He's a helluva talent though.

ChicagoJ
06-22-2006, 05:15 PM
HUH!?

What you're body can take, and what my body can take are two different things.

What JO's body can take, and what, say, Tim Duncan's body can take are two different things.

There is no body mileage. Each person's body determines what they can/can't take.

He may have ran his course, I doubt it, but it's possible.

What's the confusion?

I said,



he's too young [SIC - for you guys] to say, "that was too much mileage for his body."


He's what, 28? 27? Something like that.

And he's had a handful of freaky injuries - a separated shoulder, a torn groin muscle, stuff like that.

We've got posters on here that are moaning as if he'll never be healthy again. And IMO, that's absurd. Now, he may never be healthy again, but I'd attribute that to bad luck, not a guy who has played for so long that their body is in decline.

I know I'm usually fully-entrenched on the darkside. I like to think I'm realistic, not pessimistic. But my goodness, I feel like Sally :sunshine: next to some of these guys that take everything to a pessimistic extreme.

The only player on this team I'm not worried about is JO.

Peck
06-22-2006, 05:18 PM
I think he will have another MVP type season.

The kid wants to be here. He's a good citizan. He says the right things. He works hard. I'm not in favor of trading him unless it's for a very good deal.

For instant this deal can't be done, but it's the type deal I would want.

Childress, Harrington, and the #5 pick. We keep #17.




Not exactly. He wondered in print if the Raps would be interested in JO, for Charlie V, and the #5. Other people said it was a rumor and ran with it.

I expect the same to happen with JO to Chicago or Atlanta.

I'd do that trade as well. In fact I love that trade. I nominate Will for G.M.:)

Bball
06-22-2006, 05:28 PM
Here's a question:
Do the players on this team like, and more importanly, respect JO?

-Bball

Peck
06-22-2006, 05:29 PM
What's the confusion?

I said,



He's what, 28? 27? Something like that.

And he's had a handful of freaky injuries - a separated shoulder, a torn groin muscle, stuff like that.

We've got posters on here that are moaning as if he'll never be healthy again. And IMO, that's absurd. Now, he may never be healthy again, but I'd attribute that to bad luck, not a guy who has played for so long that their body is in decline.

I know I'm usually fully-entrenched on the darkside. I like to think I'm realistic, not pessimistic. But my goodness, I feel like Sally :sunshine: next to some of these guys that take everything to a pessimistic extreme.

The only player on this team I'm not worried about is JO.


I understand you are taking a stand against the backlash vs. O'Neal. But I just don't think we need to get carried away with defending the guy to the death either.

There are way to many chinks in the armor to use him as a shining knight who will lead us to victory slaying all of the evil opposition in his path.

Jermaine is a good player, he is one of the better players at his position. But that is all.

He is a 20 & 10 guy & there is nothing wrong with that, but Shareef Abdur-Rahim was a 20 & 10 guy for years as well. I'm not saying J.O. & SAR are on the same level but you get my point.

Can J.O. take his scoring up higher? Without a doubt, however to do so will require what has been our downfall for the past three years. We must filter our offense around J.O. & frankly not only is that not much fun to watch but it is also one of the most easily defended offenses in the NBA.

I am not for giving J.O. away, but if we get even back 2/3 talent yet dump 3/4 the payroll to be able to get other players at other positions I think they have to at least consider it.

IMO, Jermaine O'Neal is not a superstar you can build a championship around. He is to fragile & by fragile I'm talking about emotionly not physically.

I have never questioned J.O. desire to be on the floor. Unlike other players who seemed disinterested in returning J.O. has on a few occasions rushed back before he should have.

But on the floor the guy can be taken out of the game by physical players, not by them outplaying him but by them taking him out of the game mentally.

Would I take an expiring contract for J.O.? Hell no. But would I take a good player in return with a high draft pick & other considerations? Maybe.

But don't get me wrong I understand that you are defending him against people who not more than a year ago were praising his virtue. So I get that, but let's just not claim he is more than he is.

NuffSaid
06-22-2006, 05:42 PM
You know, the more I think about it the more I think ... we might actually be undervaluing him a bit on here due to his injury situation and his high salary. Of course, those things do hurt his trade value a bit, but I think we're underestimating the impact.

Sorry, guy, but I had to get straight to the point here, and your post when spliced and editted just a little helps sums things up perfectly!

JO's not going anywhere. Not no way, not no how. You don't get rid of a 20/10 post player just because he failed to meet expections ever so slightly due to injury. And even with the injury, I'd say JO performed admirably the majority of the season (a few misteps notewithstanding).

You don't get rid of a guy like him, not for a few "up-and-comers" or even if the best draft pick in the world was out there. The last "straight-from-the-draft-high-impact-player" that pre-dates LeBron James was Moses Malone. (And let's not talk about Carmelo Anthony, please. He's good, but he hasn't had that drastic an impact on his team to alter its scoup as much as King James has.) So, unless there's another LeBron James out there, you just don't do the kind of trades that have been batted around for JO here and elsewhere lately.

But you DO try to make your team better by either going after some FA's, making a few low-impact trades that for your team will pay short-term dividens either on the balance sheet or on the hardwood, or you do the very best you can to either acquire the best "position" player available in the draft or you take the best player available at your draft position to use him as trade bait to get the kind of impact player you want. But you by no means get rid of your best player simply to appease the masses. IF such a deal is made, however, you do it because you are acquiring the best pieces necessary to move your team forward in the here and now, and those players had better be dead on and are able to take your team not only to the Finals, but win it! Because if they don't, you, as President/CEO/GM will NEVER here the end of it.

So, here's hoping DW/Bird continune to stay the course and build the team around a that specific player - in thise case, that player being Jermaine Oneal.

D-BONE
06-22-2006, 05:46 PM
Here's a question:
Do the players on this team like, and more importanly, respect JO?

-Bball

Now this is a good question. I certainly can't say but I know that the chemistry on this team couldn't have been much worse than it was the second half of last season.

I don't think they dislike him and I don't know what the "respect" level is or what you might mean by it. I note no evident signs of disrespect. Yet I don't get the sense outwardly that all looked to him respectully as the main man.

Some will say it was the Artest fiasco and some of the so-called knuckleheads. There's some validity to those explanations. Assuming we move out some of the "bad" actors, the atmosphere should improve. If it doesn't, then maybe we can begin to more seriously question both he and RC.

SoupIsGood
06-22-2006, 05:54 PM
I think the focus of this offseason needs to be getting players that play well with JO, and getting rid of those who don't.

Look at the series vs NJ. JO seemed pysically and mentally prepared to dominate that series, scoring-wise at least. His team let him down horribly, though. No one could get him the ball where he needed it, and no one could draw any defensive attention away from him.

blanket
06-22-2006, 06:00 PM
Based on that ESPN article, it sounds like a lot of teams want to trade up to pick either Roy or Morrison. I expect them to go #1 and #2, regardless of which teams are picking after all the trades go down.


More likely, the Rockets will try to trade down or out of the draft in exchange for a veteran. The Rockets are in win-now mode. With the exception of J.J. Redick, it's unclear anyone on the board can help them at No. 8.

Jackson or Tinsley would look good in a Rockets uniform. At #8 we could get Brewer, Redick, Carney, or Foye.

ChicagoJ
06-22-2006, 06:00 PM
He's very easy to defend/ guard/ gameplan when he's surrounded by:

Foster: who just doesn't have to be guarded at all and is an easy double-team decision for JO
AJ: who can't get the ball to him in good position, but has a good enough shot that you can't leave him alone. But every team in the league is going to take their chances with AJ shooting instead of JO - nobody from the Nets shut down JO in the playoffs. The officials? Yes. AJ? Yes. Okay, yes, Uncle Cliff bothered JO in Game #2.
SJax/Fred: who is a turnover or bad shot in the making, and rarely if ever helps JO by feeding him the ball or doing anything else positive with it

Peja, and Croshere are the only two players on the roster the compliment JO consistently. Tinsley and Saras each compliment JO inconsistently. Pollard and Harrison at least provide a legit big-man presence (although Pollard's inept offense doesn't help his case).

SiG is 100% right - the emphasis should be on building a team that compliments JO. And then, if that fails, take a long hard look at JO.

tadscout
06-22-2006, 06:12 PM
Based on that ESPN article, it sounds like a lot of teams want to trade up to pick either Roy or Morrison. I expect them to go #1 and #2, regardless of which teams are picking after all the trades go down.



Jackson or Tinsley would look good in a Rockets uniform. At #8 we could get Brewer, Redick, Carney, or Foye.

I agree, I think Jackson to Houston for the #8 makes allot of sense...

blanket
06-22-2006, 06:43 PM
I agree, I think Jackson to Houston for the #8 makes allot of sense...

Jackson and #17 for Swift and #8 would be a valid trade. I wonder if either team would go for it. Adding Swift and one of those prospects available at 8 (Brewer, Foye, Redick) sure would be tempting.

Houston is looking for a veteran 3rd scoring option at SG who can hit the outside shot, and that sounds a lot like Jackson. Plus at 17 they could shore up the frontline with someone like Hilton Armstrong, Saer Sene or Alexander Johnson.

Unclebuck
06-22-2006, 07:30 PM
Jay, what worries me most about JO are not the big injuries that sideline him for 6 weeks at a time, but the nagging type injuries that creep up on JO and limits his effectiveness. Anytime JO plays more than about 15 games straight his back, his legs, his ankles start to bother him, but the worst thing is it impact his game. He plays the best after missing a number of games.

During the 2004 season I said I wish JO would sit out 3 or 4 games per month because he just can't play effectively every game. And this was the 2004, 61 win season

He wears down as the season goes along, I don't blame him for it, but he has a thin frame and yes the nagging injuries are a major concern to me.

Also the bottom line is for three straight years he's been injuried at playoff time.

clemdogg
06-22-2006, 08:24 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2006/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&id=2495754

Indiana Pacers

The Pacers are unhappy with how their team responded last season and have had conversations about blowing it up. That means Jermaine O'Neal, for the first time in his Pacers career, is not untouchable.

While rumors of a swap with the Raptors appear bogus, at least two teams might be willing to give the Pacers what they want for O'Neal: a high draft pick, a young prospect and salary-cap room for the summer of 2007.

The Bulls have a number of ways to make that scenario work. For instance, they could trade the No. 2 and Ben Gordon or Luol Deng for O'Neal, because they are under the salary cap.

The Hawks could offer a similar deal: the No. 5, Marvin Williams or Josh Smith and Zaza Pachulia for O'Neal.


This really doesn't make sense to me: "...give the Pacers what they want for O'Neal: a high draft pick, a young prospect and salary-cap room..." I just can't see what truth there is to that. Why would we give up our best player for a high draft pick in what could be one of the worst drafts ever?

Again, I'm not saying don't trade JO. I'm saying, don't trade JO for unproven talent. I hope there is no truth to this.

vapacersfan
06-22-2006, 09:58 PM
I agree with both Peck and SIG (and I guess Jay as well)

I dont ever think JO will be that "superstar" guy that RC thinks he is (Throw the ball to him and pretend his is Timmy D) but I do think with the right supporting cast he can be a great player who is able to be a part of a TEAM that could make some noise.

The latter part of that is why if I was GM (and good grief is that a scary thought) I would not shop him, but at the same time if he is moved I wont be upset as long as we get a good, balanced trade (read not a B.Miller for S.Pollard trade)

fwpacerfan
06-23-2006, 09:31 AM
What's the confusion?

I said,



He's what, 28? 27? Something like that.

And he's had a handful of freaky injuries - a separated shoulder, a torn groin muscle, stuff like that.

We've got posters on here that are moaning as if he'll never be healthy again. And IMO, that's absurd. Now, he may never be healthy again, but I'd attribute that to bad luck, not a guy who has played for so long that their body is in decline.

I know I'm usually fully-entrenched on the darkside. I like to think I'm realistic, not pessimistic. But my goodness, I feel like Sally :sunshine: next to some of these guys that take everything to a pessimistic extreme.

The only player on this team I'm not worried about is JO.


I agree that he is too young (in theory) to say he has a lot of mileage. I'm willing to say the last 2 years were a fluke at this point. My biggest concern is that JO has been in the league for 10 years now and that is a lot of wear and tear on his body.