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Shade
06-19-2006, 10:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783



Cuban airs grievances over Game 5 officiating

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<!-- begin text11 div --><!-- begin leftcol --> <!-- template inline --> DALLAS -- By the time Mark Cuban arrived in the Dallas Mavericks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal)' locker room, he'd already peeled off the Jerry Stackhouse (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3005) jersey he had been wearing in support of his suspended forward.

The symbolism was fitting: Stackhouse's hard foul in Game 4 of the NBA Finals was old news. The way Game 5 finished, Cuban had a whole new fight on his hands.

Cuban was irate over what he considered a series of officiating breakdowns at the end of Dallas' 101-100 overtime loss to the Miami Heat on Sunday night. The loss left the Mavericks trailing the series 3-2 and facing elimination going into Game 6 in Dallas on Tuesday night.

When time ran out in Game 5, Cuban ran onto the court to vent at official Joe DeRosa, then stared down and screamed toward commissioner David Stern and a group of league officials, from the court, then the stands.

Cuban was still boiling about a half-hour later during a testy interview with reporters.

He wrote a blog entry Monday explaining why he used profanity during a response to a question about whether this was the worst loss he'd endured.

"The reality is that it would be a waste of both of our time if I gave him the 'This was a tough one' answer, and a waste of my time to really think about it, particularly given there were 10 other reporters wanting to ask questions and we had a bus to catch," Cuban wrote.

His mind-set is perhaps better explained in a posting left a few minutes before titled, "Right is its own defense."

Cuban wrote about applying that catchphrase -- which he picked up from an old T-shirt -- to a business venture he's pursuing. He added that the slogan applies to the way he runs the Mavericks.

"I'm going to do what I think is right. Period end of story," he wrote. "You may not like that I want the officiating in the NBA to get better. I think it's the right thing to do."

NBA executives often praise Cuban for his passion, work ethic and high standards, even toward officiating.

It's his approach they're not always fond of, which is why he's been fined more than $1.2 million since buying the team in January 2000. That includes a $200,000 tab this postseason.

A league spokesman said Monday that Stu Jackson, the NBA disciplinarian, was not at Game 5 and had not reviewed what happened. Even if a punishment is assessed against Cuban, the league doesn't have to announce it.

Cuban practically turned getting fined into an art form after going from an owner of season tickets to owning the Mavericks.

One comment about him not hiring the league's head of officiating to manage a Dairy Queen landed Cuban as a manager for a day; he also donned pinstripes and officiated a Harlem Globetrotters game.

As his team improved, there were fewer stunts. He remained a visible, vocal critic, though, enough for some to suggest that his team ends up not getting the benefit of the doubt from officials.

Mavs supporters have brought that up again in the wake of three players getting suspended this postseason, with Stackhouse the most recent.

Dallas had a chance to win without its top reserve, leading by 11 points early and by four late in the fourth quarter. Miami ended up winning on a pair of free throws by Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3708) with 1.9 seconds left in overtime.

Cuban had several gripes about the play that sent Wade to the line, starting with Wade not being whistled for a collision that left Dallas' Jason Terry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3333) on the floor.

"I guess that's not a call," Cuban said. "I guess that's not a foul."

An assistant coach later showed Cuban that Wade appeared to commit a backcourt violation before the contact with Terry. It's hard to tell on replays because of the giant championship trophy logo at midcourt.

"My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it," Cuban said.

But the NBA pointed out Monday that there was no violation on the play, citing a rule that allows a player to go into the backcourt to receive an inbound pass during the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period.

Between Wade's free throws, Dallas was charged its final timeout. The Mavs insist they were only talking about calling it after Wade's second foul shot so they could set up a final play and move the ball to the frontcourt.

"Josh Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3732) goes to Joe DeRosa and not only once, but twice asks for a timeout," crew chief Joey Crawford told a pool reporter. "Forced to call it, simple as that."

Something else Mavericks followers are quick to note: Wade alone took 25 free throws, the same number as the entire Dallas team. The Heat took a total of 49 free throws.

"I don't know," Cuban said of the discrepancy. "I guess they got fouled more."

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/40996/20060619/howard_denies_calling_timeout_twice_erupts_on_repo rter/


Howard Denies Calling Timeout Twice, Erupts On Reporter

19th June, 2006 - 1:14 pm

ESPN.com - In a post-game interview with ESPN, a heated Josh Howard denied calling timeout twice before refs charged the team with their final timeout, potentially costing them the game.

"If that's what he's saying, that's what he's saying. I know I didn't call a timeout twice. I didn't even say nothing to anyone. I just made a sign like that." [Howard places his hands in the shape of a 'T'] - Howard told ESPN's Daily Dime.

Howard eventually lost his cool and erupted on the reporter.

"What am I saying to you right now, dog? Please, don't come off on me right now because I'm going to come off on you, and I'm not in a great mood right now. Get out of my face, man. Get out of my face."

There is no way in hell Dallas will win this series now. Stern's ego is much to great to allow Cuban to win a title.

Lord Helmet
06-19-2006, 10:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783



http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/40996/20060619/howard_denies_calling_timeout_twice_erupts_on_repo rter/



There is no way in hell Dallas will win this series now. Stern's ego is much to great to allow Cuban to win a title.
Yep. Too bad.

Trader Joe
06-19-2006, 10:35 PM
I would be losing it too. The Mavs have worked to hard, to take it up the rears like they are right now. I hope Cuban wears a ******* Stern T-shirt to game 6. I would cry.

SoupIsGood
06-19-2006, 11:00 PM
Stern is laying the smackdown on Cubes on Best Damn

http://www.spursreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=950232#post950232

beast23
06-20-2006, 12:18 AM
If Dallas doesn't win the series, it's their own damn fault.

They flat out blew the last game. Everyone on the planet with even half a brain knew that Wade would never relinquish the ball late in Q4 and the overtime. I mean, come on. On one occassion, Wade even called a timeout with 7 seconds left on the shot clock after picking up his dribble rather than passing off to a teammate then getting the ball back. That basically spells out that Wade was going to be both selfish with the ball and not trusting of his teammates.

What was it going to take for Dallas to double team Wade everywhere he went on the floor? If I were Avery, Wade would have faced an immediate double team/trap as soon as he dribbled across the midcourt line. I would have forced him to pass the ball and for another player to make the play. With Wade covered, the ball would have eventually been swung to Shaq, who should have then drawn an immediate foul everytime the ball was in his possession.

Dallas did not lose this game... and it was not "taken" from them. They gave it away.

larry
06-20-2006, 12:26 AM
well you know what i think. i think the pacers were screwed horrible the only finals we've ever been lucky enough to be in. i think the mavs are getting screwed like hell. i can be a little crazy, so i wonder what some of our other members that keep cool better than i think. i hate walker and i lovge the jet, so i want dallas to win. i do think that pro sports is a little shaky now on the ref side of things. i have felt this way a minute on the nba. did you think the pacers
would actually beat the bulls and go to the finals over mj? never... stern and his team just wouldn't let tiny indy take out the great jordan.
nba rigged? i dont know, but i think even the most level headed members here at PD have to at least ponder.

pizza guy
06-20-2006, 12:37 AM
If Dallas doesn't win the series, it's their own damn fault.

They flat out blew the last game. Everyone on the planet with even half a brain knew that Wade would never relinquish the ball late in Q4 and the overtime. I mean, come on. On one occassion, Wade even called a timeout with 7 seconds left on the shot clock after picking up his dribble rather than passing off to a teammate then getting the ball back. That basically spells out that Wade was going to be both selfish with the ball and not trusting of his teammates.

What was it going to take for Dallas to double team Wade everywhere he went on the floor? If I were Avery, Wade would have faced an immediate double team/trap as soon as he dribbled across the midcourt line. I would have forced him to pass the ball and for another player to make the play. With Wade covered, the ball would have eventually been swung to Shaq, who should have then drawn an immediate foul everytime the ball was in his possession.

Dallas did not lose this game... and it was not "taken" from them. They gave it away.

QFT

Dallas choked it away. If they don't win, it'll be lost on the FT line by two Nowitzki clunks in the closing seconds that would've won Game 3, and Game 5. That's all there is to it. Howard's ghost timeout would have never been called, Cubans profanity laced tyraid never happens, and Miami leaves its first Finals appearance empty handed.

efx
06-20-2006, 01:06 AM
What? Cubans team losing a game and he goes ape****. Never thought I'd see that.

This is what you get for being a jumpshooting team as opposed to a slashing team.

Big Smooth
06-20-2006, 01:46 AM
The Mavs choked away 2 wins in 3 games at Miami. The series should be over by now. Dallas needs to realize this and proceed as such in the final games. I do believe the Mavs are the better team and despite what transpired in Miami, I feel they will win the series at home. But they need to take some personal responsibility and accountability.

Robertmto
06-20-2006, 02:11 AM
Is Stern gettin a ring for this :censored: 2?

Arcadian
06-20-2006, 02:16 AM
Cuban is a whiner. It gets old.

There is no conspiracy.

Robertmto
06-20-2006, 02:24 AM
Cuban is a whiner. It gets old.

There is no conspiracy.

you can't be serious???

Arcadian
06-20-2006, 02:27 AM
Yeah, I am serious. I also believe that the moon landing was real. But then maybe I'm the gulible type. :whoknows:

Pingu
06-20-2006, 02:30 AM
you can't be serious???


Come on, are you still maintaining that there was no foul on Wade on the last play?

The Mavs were perfect from the line, and then screwed themselves with missed FT at the end. That's why they lost.

Robertmto
06-20-2006, 02:33 AM
Come on, are you still maintaining that there was no foul on Wade on the last play?

The Mavs were perfect from the line, and then screwed themselves with missed FT at the end. That's why they lost.

Sure Devin Harris fouled him but there has been way too many bad calls goin Miami's way. And Stack did not, I repeat did not deserve to be suspended.

Cactus Jax
06-20-2006, 06:05 AM
I don't know, I didn't see Dallas as a "jump shooting" team in game 5, I just saw Miami getting WAY more calls than Dallas. The 25 throws by Dallas is a fair and average number but 49 is ridiculous. And on the other end, I don't know how many times Devin Harris has been fouled himself going up for layups, Shaq hiting him with the body.

If fouls like the one that was called for Wade at the end were called against Shaq, he'd foul out in 10 minutes every game, he bumps players off line pretty much every game, yet he gets the "He's big" excuse.

RON ARTEST
06-20-2006, 06:34 AM
i dont like dallas very much but they are getting screwed big time in this series. i cant believe how bad the refs have been this year.:mad:

Slick Pinkham
06-20-2006, 09:09 AM
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/14856564.htm

There could be some hefty fines for this one, if true.


Official coverup? Conspiracy theories no excuse for Dallas


There could not be a more perfect locale than Dallas for these NBA Finals to resume tonight. Just a few miles from the basketball arena is the infamous grassy knoll, national Mecca of conspiracy theorists. We presume that when the Mavericks' owner, coach and players talk these days about looking at film, it might not be game film but rather Abraham Zapruder's grainy home movie.

The question now: Is commissioner David Stern acting alone in manipulating to steal Dallas' championship trophy and give it to the Miami Heat? If so, then what of the blurred, shadowy figures on the knoll who appear to be wearing vertically striped shirts?

A delicious, volatile cauldron presents itself for Game 6 tonight in the wake of Sunday's home Heat victory in overtime and the Mavericks' belief the referees helped fashion Miami's 3-2 series lead. Desperation and paranoia is a cocktail more dangerous than Molotov's, and Dallas owner Mark Cuban warring with the officials is something like a match mad at a stick of dynamite.

It is unlikely Miami has been a part of playoff combustion like this since the bad old Knicks-rivalry years, when suspensions rocked a series and your snapshot was New York coach Jeff Van Gundy poodled onto Alonzo Mourning's pistoning leg in an on-court melee.

Here, the Mavs say they'll play with ''anger'' as the hostility of all North Texas funnels into one arena. Not sure in what role Dwyane Wade might find Shaquille O'Neal more useful tonight: Center. Or bodyguard.

''We Wuz Robbed!'' has long been the handiest excuse of teams that cannot find a decent reason for their collapse that doesn't involve the ignominy of a mirror. The convenience of alleging bad calls, or even willfully biased officiating (you'll recall the Seattle Seahawks conducted a remarkable seminar in early February), also is the blame-dodge of choice among teams that cannot bear to properly credit the opponent.

And so there it was for all to see past midnight Sunday in Miami's downtown bayfront arena: the sourest, saddest, sorriest display by a losing team that you'd ever wish to witness.

Not the loss itself; that was rather valiant. The reaction to it.

There was Cuban, whose billions can buy just about anything but a mortal slump by D-Wade, careening onto the court in a blue Jerry Stackhouse jersey after the final buzzer, screaming profanely at referee Joe DeRosa.

Cuban then turned to Stern and other NBA officials who were seated at the scorer's table and was overheard to shout venomously in the jubilant din, ``[Bleep] you! [Bleep] you! Your league is rigged!''

MAVS COME UNHINGED

That was just after The Incredible Shrinking Dirk Nowitzki -- who began the series as a 7-foot superstar but has seen the series turn him into his own bobblehead doll -- punted the basketball up into the 300-level seats after the buzzer and marauded off the court, slamming a water cooler and kicking a stationary bicycle in the hallway en route to the visitors' dressing room.

A bit after that is when coach Avery Johnson conducted a news conference that, if it were any stranger, might have seen him restrained and fitted with a straitjacket by men in White Hot coats.

A reporter asked what he thought of the foul call that turned into Wade's game-winning free throws with 1.9 seconds left in overtime.

''You tell me. What was your impression?'' Johnson replied.

The question was essentially repeated four more times; so was the coach's increasingly testy reply.

''No I want you to give everybody an honest answer,'' Johnson demanded, finally. ``We have people from Israel and Minnesota, Chicago, all over Dallas Germany.''

Johnson's performance seemed applicable to the phrase ''cracking under pressure'' to a degree that left you worried the coach was going to suddenly split in two, like a coconut that met a machete. This was the perfect spokesman for a team that seemed to be coming apart before our eyes.

Dallas' once-commanding 2-0 lead in this series seems as long ago now as NBA short-shorts. Three straight home victories by Miami have put control of the championship trophy in Heat hands entering tonight; the only question is how the seismic shift happened.

Wade's 121 points in the past three games is a pretty strong opening argument.

You start with Miami's young Flash asserting himself as the Finals MVP-in-waiting and doing it with a dominance that conjures images of Michael Jordan. And you contrast that with Nowitzki too often playing like David Hasselhoff sings, in the biggest collapse associated with Germany since the Berlin Wall.

Yet Dallas would cite the officiating, as if that was why the Mavs blew a 13-point, mid-fourth-quarter lead in crucial Game 3 -- a collapse that left the entire Dallas team writhing on the court in need a of a group Heimlich maneuver.

CUBAN'S SOUR GRAPES

Again Sunday night, responsibility for the loss was not accepted by the Mavericks. Class was not in session. So, in the wake of the 101-100 defeat, they blamed the refs.

Said that Wade, with the ball and 9.1 seconds left, committed a backcourt violation that was not called.

''That's a backcourt violation, at least to most high-schoolers,'' Cuban groused.

Then they said Wade committed a foul on Jason Terry en route to the basket that wasn't called.

''He pushed him. I guess that's not a foul,'' Cuban groused.

''Pushed off, like, three guys,'' Nowitzki claimed.

Then they said Wade was not fouled at all on the final drive that froze the clock at 1.9 and set up his winning free throws. Half right on that. Nowitzki was called but was not the fouler. However, replays clearly show Devin Harris grabbed Wade's inside right elbow, an obvious foul on anybody's court.

Finally, Dallas claimed it wanted to use its last timeout after Wade's second free throw but that the referee mistakenly awarded it after the first one -- even though the mistake clearly appeared to be on the part of timeout-signaler Josh Howard.

Speaking of whom, evidently Howard escapes blame for his two missed free throws with 54 seconds left. Evidently Nowitzki does, too, for another of his late missed foul shots. Maybe a ref hissed, ``Miss it!''

A LACK OF GRACE

Yes, let the Mavericks not accept blame for their third straight Finals loss or entertain the absurd idea Miami might be a worthy opponent.

No.

Let's instead put a telescope on the grassy knoll and imagine Stern there -- is he grinning? -- exacting some sort of vendetta against Cuban over the fact he is the most outspoken critic of NBA officiating. A conspiracy! Yes. That's it. Stern's Revenge!

''It's just ridiculous,'' Cuban summarized before climbing onto his team's bus.

He meant the officiating late in Sunday's game.

He might better have meant his team's response to the loss in the absence of any sort of grace.



:crazy:

Unclebuck
06-20-2006, 09:14 AM
Oh well that settles the debate, Cuban confirms that the league is rigged.

It is starting to get a little difficult to root for the Mavs.

Kegboy
06-20-2006, 09:19 AM
On Mike&Mike this morning, they had a guy on who heard from an "impecible source" that one of the game operations staff told him that Cuban said "(Bleep) you, (Bleep) you, your league is rigged."

Sorry, I can't remember the guy's name, so I can't point towards his article. The quote was in the 10th paragraph, and M&M were blasting him for burying the lead. He responded that it was just Cubes being Cubes, no big deal.

Kegboy
06-20-2006, 09:21 AM
As I just said elsewhere, I heard this reporter on Mike&Mike. They were blasting him for burying the lead, and he acted like it was no big deal, that it was pretty much Cubes being Cubes.

Unclebuck
06-20-2006, 09:27 AM
Sure Devin Harris fouled him but there has been way too many bad calls goin Miami's way. And Stack did not, I repeat did not deserve to be suspended.



If we both sat down with the tape of the game. For every bad call you could find that went against the Mavs, I could find a bad call that went against the Heat.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 09:53 AM
Sure Devin Harris fouled him but there has been way too many bad calls goin Miami's way. And Stack did not, I repeat did not deserve to be suspended.

Yes he did, I repeat, did deserve to get suspended

No conspiracy, Dallas just plain choked and now they are blaming everyone but themselves.

Hicks
06-20-2006, 10:05 AM
The two Cuban thread are now merged.

timmanis2000
06-20-2006, 10:34 AM
IMO Dallas has gotten alot more bad calls than Miami.

bulldog
06-20-2006, 10:40 AM
Here's the thing with Miami, and Bill Simmons, who sometimes makes some insightful observations, pointed it out a few weeks ago:
With Shaq and Wade, no team in the league is more dependant on referees.

Shaq should foul out every game; he also gets fouled damn near every play. So the refs essentially control Shaq's destiny these days, especially as he can't just take over like he used to.

Wade, meanwhile, gets bailed out a lot. It's very much like Manu, except he doesn't flail as much, but he so often just throws himself at the rim and his defender and hopes for a call. It's why he averages a lot of turnovers and crazy shots, but also why he gets so many FT's. So the refs have a lot of say as far as how many TO's he gets vs. how many times he gets to the line.

The fact is, the refs have been calling it better for the Heat since the series shifted to Miami. Conspiracy, hardly. But the refs are having a huge impact on the series.

I'd also like to point out Dirk gets flat out mugged on the perimeter when Haslem and Posey dig in and bury themselves in his stomach, but apparently that's legal in the NBA, although to me it seems it shouldn't be. It's really limiting his effectiveness, he needs space to shoot over people.

Fool
06-20-2006, 10:41 AM
If we both sat down with the tape of the game. For every bad call you could find that went against the Mavs, I could find a bad call that went against the Heat.

When Wade goes to the line as much as the entire opponent's team, I don't think your statement is true.

naptownmenace
06-20-2006, 11:07 AM
The Mavs choked. That's a fact.

1. They were up by as many as 8 points in the 4th.
2. They couldn't stop Wade.
3. Dirk missed the free throw that would've iced the game.
4. In overtime, Josh Howard missed 2 free throws that would've given them a 3 point lead with .54 seconds remaining. Probably enough to win the game. Instead they seesawed back and forth, trading 1 point leads until the foul at 1.9 seconds.

If the Mavs had taken care of their end of the business, the refs wouldn't have had the chance to blow it for them. I believe that was a horrible foul call at the end but they put themselves in that position.


When Wade goes to the line as much as the entire opponent's team, I don't think your statement is true.


Wade attacked the basket and earned those fouls... except for the last one, IMO. He was nearly unstoppable in the fourth.

Then again, maybe you're saying that the Mavs should've shot more free throws. That could be true but they didn't drive to the hole as much and the Mavs used a lot of fouls on Shaq. :shrug:

Shade
06-20-2006, 11:23 AM
The free throw differential in the first four games was in single digits, with Miami being the beneficiary in 3 of the 4. You mean to tell me that, suddenly, Miami was 3-4 times as aggressive at attacking the basket as at any other time in the entire series? That's awfully hard to swallow.

Game 1 - Dallas +7
Game 2 - Miami +4
Game 3 - Miami +8
Game 4 - Miami +9
Game 5 - Miami +24

The difference in the first four games combined was Miami +14.

Wade is getting Jordan-level calls now.

Since86
06-20-2006, 11:28 AM
The free throw differential in the first four games was in single digits, with Miami being the beneficiary in 3 of the 4. You mean to tell me that, suddenly, Miami was 3-4 times as aggressive at attacking the basket as at any other time in the entire series? That's awfully hard to swallow.

Wade is getting Jordan-level calls now.

According to Colin Cowherd during yesterday's show, Dallas was +7 after game one and +3 after game 2 from the FT line.

Now they're -39.

A 42 FT attempt differential in a three game span, when only the venue changes?

Jordan-level is spot on.

Shade
06-20-2006, 11:31 AM
According to Colin Cowherd during yesterday's show, Dallas was +7 after game one and +3 after game 2 from the FT line.

Now they're -39.

A 42 FT attempt differential in a three game span, when only the venue changes?

Jordan-level is spot on.

Precisely. And watching the game you could see lots of lame touch fouls that Miami (particularly Wade) got, while you saw examples like Shaq bodying Dirk on the preimeter with no whistle.

There's a reason Miami is a much better team at home than on the road.

D-BONE
06-20-2006, 11:45 AM
And the problem with Jordan-type preferential treatment from the refs (whether it be Jordan or Wade) is that, IMO, you unfairly raise the bar the opponent must reach to even compete, let alone, win against them/their teams.

No question these guys are incredible talents/players. They are hard enough to contain in their own right. Then add in the inordinately high number of extra opportunities they get from the FT line, and you essentially make them unstoppable.

I know Wade was the Heat offense in game 5 and he's very aggressive at driving it to the rim, but 25 FTs alone?? Meanwhile, to echo another post, Miami's defenders can now muscle Nowitzki on and off the ball with little or no ramifications. Try bodying up on Wade and see what happens.

I felt the same way about MJ and every other player who's rep/talent gets them this treatment. I know it's "part of the NBA" but it's patently unfair.

Now, all that said, let me be clear that, ultimately, Dallas blew their chances to win this game just like in game 3 despite Wade's performance. It's just what I view as slanting the playing field that I don't like. Yes the Mavs should have put the game away, but they were forced to overcome more than what they should have been.

P.S.-And the Mav's (Cuban included) lack of control in handling all this is only making things that much harder on them. Very poor composure. Add that in as part of their choking in Miami.

Shade
06-20-2006, 11:50 AM
I've been looking over that last play, and not only did Wade commit an over-and-back (he wasn't established in the back court before catching the ball), but he pushed off on Terry to get loose. That whole final possession was an embarassment on the refs' part. Dallas should have won that game.

ChicagoJ
06-20-2006, 11:55 AM
Oh well that settles the debate, Cuban confirms that the league is rigged.

It is starting to get a little difficult to root for the Mavs.

I like Cuban, but I've been rooting for Shaq.

:shrug:


Wade is getting Jordan-level calls now.

Why, because he's getting fouled as often as Jordan?

He's driving to the basket and getting hacked and shoved and slapped. Those are fouls, and they are often shooting fouls.

If Dallas is complaining about FT discrepancies they should (1) quit playing Hack-a-Shaq, and (2) move their feet and take away Wade's dribble penetration, not shove and slap and push and grab him.

I swear I remember hearing about the quickness of the Dallas backcourt somewhere. They look awfully damn slow next to Wade, and they are foul-prone.

Shade
06-20-2006, 11:57 AM
I like Cuban, but I've been rooting for Shaq.

:shrug:



Why, because he's getting fouled as often as Jordan?

He's driving to the basket and getting hacked and shoved and slapped. Those are fouls, and they are often shooting fouls.

If Dallas is complaining about FT discrepancies they should (1) quit playing Hack-a-Shaq, and (2) move their feet and take away Wade's dribble penetration, not shove and slap and push and grab him.

I swear I remember hearing about the quickness of the Dallas backcourt somewhere. They look awfully damn slow next to Wade, and they are foul-prone.

No, because he pushes off to get free and gets touch fouls and phantom fouls.

The Hack-a-Shaq netted Miami a whopping 4 extra free throws.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 12:12 PM
I've been looking over that last play, and not only did Wade commit an over-and-back (he wasn't established in the back court before catching the ball), but he pushed off on Terry to get loose. That whole final possession was an embarassment on the refs' part. Dallas should have won that game.

This was posted at least once here, but I read it right after the game on ESPN:



An assistant coach later showed Cuban that Wade appeared to commit a backcourt violation before the contact with Terry. It's hard to tell on replays because of the giant championship trophy logo at midcourt.

"My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it," Cuban said.

But the NBA pointed out Monday that there was no violation on the play, citing a rule that allows a player to go into the backcourt to receive an inbound pass during the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period.

Slick Pinkham
06-20-2006, 12:17 PM
Not only did Wade commit an over-and-back (he wasn't established in the back court before catching the ball...

That's what I thought initially, but I WAS WRONG.

The NBA rulebook says that you do not have to establish a foot in the backcourt before catching the ball in the backcourt. Thus frontcourt/backcourt is rated differently than in-bounds/out-of-bounds and also the 3-point line. An odd rule, but it is there for all to see:

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_4.html?nav=ArticleList

g. Frontcourt/backcourt status is not attained until a player with the ball has established a positive position in either half during (1) a jump ball, (2) a steal by a defensive player, or (3) a throw-in in the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any overtime period.


translation: Wade catches the ball in the air. He is NOT considered to have possession of the ball in either the frontcourt or the backcourt until his foot comes down. He caught the ball and came down in the backcourt. It would have only been a violation if he caught the ball, came down in the frontcourt, and THEN went onto the backcourt.


----

Point 2.

People focus on the free throw differential. The fouls committed differential was only 12. 6 of those were hack-a-Shaq intentional fouls. At least 8 other fouls were also called on Dallas as they wrapped up Shaq every time he caught the ball in the lane in a position to dunk the ball or lay it in. Thus the entire disparity in foul calls was due to the concerted effort to foul Shaq at every occasion.

The drawback to this strategy that Dallas employed was that all the fould used on Shaq ensured that Miami was always in the bonus, so that every time a Miami player that COULD make free throws was fouled, he got to shoot them.

The disparity in fouls can be 100% accounted for by the game strategies of the 2 teams.



The Hack-a-Shaq netted Miami a whopping 4 extra free throws.

4 extra free throws for Shaq,

and about 12 extra free throws for the rest of the Miami team, due to being in the penalty and getting 2 FTs instead of side out.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 12:32 PM
Stern would like Cuban to retain more control


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783

Commissioner David Stern said Tuesday he believes that outbursts by Dallas owner Mark Cuban are "not healthy for either him or the game."

"I don't think he is crazy. I think he is smart. I think his recent loss of self control is not planned and not calculated, and I think if he could, he would like to have some of it back," Stern said in an interview on San Francisco radio station KNBR. "Because at bottom, I really do believe it distracts the players and that can't be good. It sets a bad tone.


"He is very smart, he has to take credit and should be given credit for putting together a great team and giving his fans the entertainment experience in that building which is terrific. But at times I think he loses control and that is not healthy for either him or the game."


Cuban was irate over what he considered a series of officiating breakdowns at the end of Dallas' 101-100 overtime loss to the Miami Heat on Sunday night. The loss left the Mavericks trailing the series 3-2 and facing elimination going into Game 6 in Dallas on Tuesday night.


When time ran out in Game 5, Cuban ran onto the court to vent at official Joe DeRosa, then stared down and screamed toward Stern and a group of league officials, from the court, then the stands.


On Monday, Stern told ESPN Radio 760 in West Palm Beach, Fla., that he did not speak to Cuban after the game.


"Mark has a way of looking over in the direction of wherever I happen to be sitting if the occasion of calls or game action he doesn't particularly like," Stern said. "But that would not make him the first owner to do that. I did not speak to him at the end of the game."


The league was looking into Cuban's actions, but a league spokesman said Monday that Stu Jackson, the NBA disciplinarian, was not at Game 5 and had not reviewed what happened. Even if a punishment, which likely would come before Game 6 on Tuesday, is assessed against Cuban, the league doesn't have to announce it.


Cuban wore a Jerry Stackhouse (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/%3Chttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3005%3E) jersey Sunday in Miami in support of the forward, suspended for a hard foul in Game 4.


A half-hour after Game 5, Cuban was still boiling during a testy interview with reporters.


He wrote a blog entry Monday explaining why he used profanity during a response to a question about whether this was the worst loss he'd endured.


"The reality is that it would be a waste of both of our time if I gave him the 'This was a tough one' answer, and a waste of my time to really think about it, particularly given there were 10 other reporters wanting to ask questions and we had a bus to catch," Cuban wrote.


His mind-set is perhaps better explained in a posting left a few minutes before titled, "Right is its own defense."


Cuban wrote about applying that catchphrase -- which he picked up from an old T-shirt -- to a business venture he's pursuing. He added that the slogan applies to the way he runs the Mavericks.


"I'm going to do what I think is right. Period end of story," he wrote. "You may not like that I want the officiating in the NBA to get better. I think it's the right thing to do."


NBA executives often praise Cuban for his passion, work ethic and high standards, even toward officiating.


It's his approach they're not always fond of, which is why he's been fined more than $1.2 million since buying the team in January 2000. That includes a $200,000 tab this postseason.


Still, Stern told ESPN Radio 760 that he wouldn't have a problem handing the championship trophy to Cuban if the Mavericks win the title.
"I've been doing this for a long time and I have a very good relationship with the Dallas franchise," Stern said. "I was there when it was formed. I was just visiting with Donald Carter who is a shareholder and the initial owner and is still an owner. I visited with Ross Perot Jr. who is still an investor and sold the majority to Mark [Cuban] and I spend time with Mark as well. Franchises in their own way belong to cities, in any event, and I would be very happy to award a trophy to either the good city of Miami, or the good city of Dallas."


Asked Monday night in an interview on Dallas television station WFAA if he would consider selling the team if he didn't see some of the league changes he wants, Cuban snapped his fingers and said "In a heartbeat. Yeah, if they drive me that crazy, in a heartbeat."


"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and not seeing any different results. If they don't want to make things better, then what am I here for?"


Cuban practically turned getting fined into an art form after going from an owner of season tickets to owning the Mavericks.


One comment about him not hiring the league's head of officiating to manage a Dairy Queen landed Cuban as a manager for a day; he also donned pinstripes and officiated a Harlem Globetrotters game.


As his team improved, there were fewer stunts. He remained a visible, vocal critic, though, enough for some to suggest that his team ends up not getting the benefit of the doubt from officials.


Mavs supporters have brought that up again in the wake of three players getting suspended this postseason, with Stackhouse the most recent.
Dallas had a chance to win without its top reserve, leading by 11 points early and by four late in the fourth quarter. Miami ended up winning on a pair of free throws by Dwyane Wade (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/%3Chttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3708%3E) with 1.9 seconds left in overtime.
Cuban had several gripes about the play that sent Wade to the line, starting with Wade not being whistled for a collision that left Dallas' Jason Terry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/%3Chttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3333%3E) on the floor.


"I guess that's not a call," Cuban said. "I guess that's not a foul."
An assistant coach later showed Cuban that Wade appeared to commit a backcourt violation before the contact with Terry. It's hard to tell on replays because of the giant championship trophy logo at midcourt.
"My understanding from the rule book is, if you are going to catch the ball in the backcourt, you have to be in the backcourt to catch it," Cuban said.
But the NBA pointed out Monday that there was no violation on the play, citing a rule that allows a player to go into the backcourt to receive an inbound pass during the last two minutes of the fourth quarter or any overtime period.


Between Wade's free throws, Dallas was charged its final timeout. The Mavs insist they were only talking about calling it after Wade's second foul shot so they could set up a final play and move the ball to the frontcourt.
"Josh Howard (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/%3Chttp://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3732%3E) goes to Joe DeRosa and not only once, but twice asks for a timeout," crew chief Joey Crawford told a pool reporter. "Forced to call it, simple as that."


Something else Mavericks followers are quick to note: Wade alone took 25 free throws, the same number as the entire Dallas team. The Heat took a total of 49 free throws.


"I don't know," Cuban said of the discrepancy. "I guess they got fouled more."

Shade
06-20-2006, 12:45 PM
Tom,

Has that rule been changed? Because it seems to me that I got the idea the player had to be established in the backcourt first from somewhere, and I'm far from the only one with that perception.

As for the Hack-a-Shaq, the boatload of calls prior to those fouls led to the Heat being in the penalty regardless. As far as I can recall, there were only 3 H-a-S's committed in the game. What I want to know is, why didn't they hack Shaq with 10 seconds left in regulation?

Slick Pinkham
06-20-2006, 12:49 PM
The rule may be different in college & high school.

I assumed that, just like when you run out of bounds you have to get your feet down in-bounds before catching the ball, the same would apply to frontcourt/backcourt.

But that doesn't seem to be what the rulebook says.

CableKC
06-20-2006, 12:51 PM
So...I'm lost....should Wade have gotten a backcourt violation when he dribbled the ball all the way back behind the halfcourt line?

Was there an official ruling or explanation on this?

Shade
06-20-2006, 12:55 PM
So...I'm lost....should Wade have gotten a backcourt violation when he dribbled the ball all the way back behind the halfcourt line?

Was there an official ruling or explanation on this?

Apparently not, because Wade caught the ball in mid-air and landed in the backcourt.

That is an absolutely retarded rule, on par with being able to call a timeout in mid-air.

Slick Pinkham
06-20-2006, 12:55 PM
So...I'm lost....should Wade have gotten a backcourt violation when he dribbled the ball all the way back behind the halfcourt line?

Was there an official ruling or explanation on this?

^^See 6 posts up for NBA rule.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 12:57 PM
^^See 6 posts up for NBA rule.

Phew!

I thought everyone here had me on ignore......

CableKC
06-20-2006, 01:08 PM
Phew!

I thought everyone here had me on ignore......

Sorry...I wasn't ignoring you.......I'm just too lazy to go through all the threads to read that. :D

And I agree with Shade....that is a retarded rule....if you're in the backcourt....you're in the backcourt.

Its like the rule was specifically designed for players that like Freddie or something.....:zip:

Moses
06-20-2006, 01:25 PM
When a single player takes more FT's then the opposing team, I can't really blame Cuban. I don't normally do this, but after watching the Mavs get completely shafted in that game..I'm going to cheer for them now. Not that it makes a difference..but it will be all the more pleasing when they win the Finals.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 01:46 PM
Cuban responds

http://www.blogmaverick.com/



Im used to getting emails from fans claiming the NBA is this or that. The NBA wants a team to win based on market size. The NBA doesnt want me to win because the league doesnt like me. So and so has money on the game. The NBA makes more money when the series goes 7 games.

Its all nonsense. Any prudent, rational person can easily see it. The games are not rigged. Thats a complete insult to the players on the court and the incredible amount of effort they put into preparing for and playing the games. All 82 regular season and post season games. The NBA couldnt rig the games if it wanted to. And it doesnt want to. Its that simple

Do i like that i have gotten more than 12,000 emails in the last week and probably 80pct have questioned some level of honesty. No, I hate it. I hate it more than you will ever know because these are my customers, NBA customers, who are questioning our enterprise. Thats never a good thing and each one is a business hole I have to work harder to dig us out of.

Do I wish there was better communication from the league ? Yes. I dont like when my email box fills up with nonsense. Yes. I wish the league would just come out and explain events that occur in a game to the public. I think it would help the perception of our game. I think it would help fans better understand not only the rules of the NBA, but also the nuances, strategies and challenges of the game. I have suggested it. Many others have suggested it.

Getting an explanation pretty much eliminates everyones ability to question what just occured. Some media people have suggested that the same approach that MLB takes would work well. Simply allow reporters to ask officials questions after a game. Why not ?

Count me as a person who thinks transparency is a good thing in business. But this isnt my business. Im simply one of 30 shareholders.

Two other things. Apparently the Miami Herald is reporting i screamed at the NBA comissioner after the game the other night. Didnt happen. Didnt say a word to the man. Not a single word. And that was absolutely by intention.

Apparently this “reporter” has written he has several “sources”. Well they must be the same sources the tabloids use to find two headed babys and aliens, because it didnt happen.

Ive already blogged about and been fined for the source of my displeasure in these playoffs and there was absolutely no reason for me to say another word about it and i wont.
Back to the same “reporter”. He references the play call that led to Wades 2 free throws. Well there is a picture (http://i5.tinypic.com/14vmbte.jpg) being sent around showing Devin Harris’s arm on DWades shooting arm. Well beyond not knowing if the contact was more than incidental, there is one thing we do know. It occured AFTER the whistle blew. Notice DWade up in the air, more importantly notice his eyes closed and Dirks hand no where near his back, and no real chance to get placed on his back, which is what triggered the whistle. This was at the end of the play. After the whistle blew.

Chalk up some more great reporting to the Miami Herald. The source of phantom comments. The source where I first learned that I owned a boat and had it docked in Miami (http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000780073750/)
(BTW, the story referenced above still isnt corrected. Way to stand for accuracy folks)

To the executives of the Miami Herald.

Dear Mr, Mrs or Ms Publisher.
I am the easiest person in the world to get a hold of. My email is everywhere. If you want to know if i have a boat BEFORE you write that I do. Just ask.

If you want to know if or what I said to someone. Just ask.

Going to a source. Isnt that Journalism 101 ?

You are also the reason Im thankful for this blog. In the old days I would have had to make the rounds of media, doing my best to discredit your efforts. Now I can just write this blog, link and let your work discredit itself. Which is a whole lot more fun.

One Last Last Note:
Im a competitive person. My blog is an outlet for that intensity. I dont blog about the normal things in my life that make up 99pct of my day. I like to blog about things that get me fired up in the Sport of Business. The things i get fired up about. Ive been accussed more than once of having HID (Hyper Intensity Disorder….ok, i just made that up, but if it were truly a disease, I would claim that I had it). Not everyone likes that

Slick Pinkham
06-20-2006, 02:01 PM
I don't normally do this, but after watching the Mavs get completely shafted in that game..I'm going to cheer for them now. Not that it makes a difference..but it will be all the more pleasing when they win the Finals.

I feel the exact opposite. I hate Antoine Walker. I dislike Shaq. I wanted Dallas to win.

The Mavericks constant griping, complaining, whining, and also overall SOFT-AS-CHARMIN playing strategy has caused me to start to reluctantly cheer for the Heat.

Arcadian
06-20-2006, 02:11 PM
If Cuban doesn'y want people to think the league is rigged he needs to stop whining everytime he loses. The message he is conveying by his actions is, "I'm being screwed big time."

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 02:19 PM
Bill Simmons' article about this is up. Nice read. Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620) ya go.

Shade
06-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Bill Simmons' article about this is up. Nice read. Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620) ya go.


That's a great article.

In fact, it may be the best article I've ever read.

If anyone wnats to know my opinion on this whole situation, just read that article.

larry
06-20-2006, 08:51 PM
mavs got the shaft. i'm not saying the league IS rigged. if cuban said "bleep you! your league is rigged!" that means nothing. we all know how cuban is and he has his heart & soul wanting to win. he just lost it. now, i've sure seen numerous bad calls. just makes me wonder. that's all. after indy lost in the finals, i wondered as well. i had my heart and soul in that series. this is diff, because i like the mavs better, but i really don't care very much. it seems like dallas is getting the short end of the stick 4 sure.

if stern has never tampered w/ anything in the NBA imagine how p*ssed he must be getting. haha
serves him right for screwing my people in Indiana after the brawl.

i mentioned the jordan level as well, good eye y'all.
one last thing.
if you go to even the heat.com you will see dirk making 2 huge shots in the closing of that game. he had better numbers than shaq.
watch the game 5 highlights at the top of heat.com
diek isn't playing as bad as this article makes him out to be.
he will slip in larry's top 5 nba ballers. i said if the mavs lost that 2-0 lead dirk would have to choke and he would slip. it's not fair weather. its the finals. its what seperated jordan from a malone or drexler in history.
now did stern or any refs give jordan unfair treatment that helped him gain this rep?

vapacersfan
04-06-2013, 09:43 AM
A funny thread, and I know some will hate me for the bump, but I found this thread when going through our current "Is the NBA rigged" thread

shags
04-06-2013, 10:50 AM
The interesting thing about Simmons column is that, in his book, he admitted he had money on the Mavs to win the series (and lied in the column), and that's a big reason for the passion in his writing.

This is the only NBA finals I haven't watched or followed in the past 10 years.

vapacersfan
04-06-2013, 11:08 AM
The interesting thing about Simmons column is that, in his book, he admitted he had money on the Mavs to win the series (and lied in the column), and that's a big reason for the passion in his writing.

This is the only NBA finals I haven't watched or followed in the past 10 years.

Fascinating, thank you for that.

Which book (does he have more than one?)

shags
04-06-2013, 12:09 PM
Fascinating, thank you for that.

Which book (does he have more than one?)

His basketball book.