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denyfizle
06-19-2006, 06:49 PM
With the way management structured this team's core (Ron Artest's salary being the calayst), unless we get a major gift via trade from other teams or JO loses his mind and plays like a beast...

the Pacers will be an overachieving mediocre team at best for the next 2-3 seasons...

so i suggest you pick between LbJ and Flash now if you still haven't because that's pretty much what we're going to see for the next 5 years.

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 07:23 PM
so i suggest you pick between LbJ and Flash now if you still haven't because that's pretty much what we're going to see for the next 5 years.
I already have. Go :cavs:!!! :yes: :happydanc

Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to be happy about that. Go :cavs:. :( :kickcan:

Eindar
06-19-2006, 07:43 PM
Proving once again that Indy has more fair-weather fans than any city in the country.

317Kim
06-19-2006, 07:53 PM
Going with a team like the Cavs or Heat with less drama would be boring :D

Hicks
06-19-2006, 07:57 PM
Proving once again that Indy has more fair-weather fans than any city in the country.

I used to disagree...

FrenchConnection
06-19-2006, 08:23 PM
Medicore team? I wouldn't have it any other way. So what if they will not win the title anytime soon. If that is the only thing that you watch sports for, then you would have to switch teams once every 3-4 years. Better yet, you could stay neutral until the all-star break every year and then choose your team then. You have to stay with your team throw the lean years. Listen, the Hawks still have fans. I enjoy the game throughout the season even if I know that there is no chance for a title. If you want to go be a Cavs' fan, go ahead. Then when the Hawks get Oden, then you can become a Hawks' fan. I will pull for my hometown teams (Sabres, Pacers and Hoosiers) regardless of if they win 20 or 60 games.

Lord Helmet
06-19-2006, 08:24 PM
Proving once again that Indy has more fair-weather fans than any city in the country.
Yep. :shakehead

I'm not going to already give up on the Pacers, we havn't even started this season, let alone had the draft/FA signing period. But, if some want to, go ahead and root on the Heat/Bulls/Cavs.

Ara
06-19-2006, 08:31 PM
I'll always like the Pacers, but I'll pay attention to other teams too (like the Bulls and Mavericks).

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 08:38 PM
Well, if one doesn't like the moves the front office is making, doesn't like the coach, doesn't like the players, doesn't like the style of play, are they honor-bound to stick with the team regardless, and not allowed to root for teams they actually enjoy watching, no matter how long it may take for the home team to get their **** together?

BlueNGold
06-19-2006, 08:50 PM
I think the strategy should be to trade the whole team for draft picks and promising rookies, skip training camp, and draft Oden next year when our record is 0-82.

Lord Helmet
06-19-2006, 08:51 PM
Well, if one doesn't like the moves the front office is making, doesn't like the coach, doesn't like the players, doesn't like the style of play, are they honor-bound to stick with the team regardless, and not allowed to root for teams they actually enjoy watching, no matter how long it may take for the home team to get their **** together?
Well, if it means just like watching the other team, and hoping they win, but never over the home team, I'd say it's OK. But, completely forgeting about the home team and getting a new team and then when the home team gets it's **** together, becoming the home team fan again, that's not cool.

What would the person that did that be in the eyes of the people who stayed with the home team during the **** years?

I dunno, people have different theories. JMO.

ChicagoJ
06-19-2006, 08:51 PM
You're allowed to watch them, but not cheer for them.

As Seinfeld points out, its all about the fabric.

Sollozzo
06-19-2006, 08:57 PM
Proving once again that Indy has more fair-weather fans than any city in the country.


So would lying to ourselves and acting like this team had a solid chance of winning a title over the next couple of years (which obviously doesn't look remotely possible at the moment) make us less "fair weather?"

It's not being "fair weather", it's seeing the writing on the wall. I've never understood why people act like fans can't be critical of a team. What's the point of blindly being optimistic and acting like this team has a real shot only to get your spirit broken at the end of the year? Who's been right more often than not over the past few Pacers seasons, the pessmistic ones, or the optimistic ones?

I think the answer is obvious.

ChicagoJ
06-19-2006, 08:59 PM
I think I'm probably the crabbiest guy on here about the Pacers, but the only thing that would cause me to stop watching/ cheering for them would be if some new owners moved the team out of Indy.

Otherwise, that's "my" team, even if they disgust me (and this past season, disgust was the right word.)

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 09:04 PM
As Seinfeld points out, its all about the fabric.
Yeah, but they changed their uniforms. That's the out I need. :runout:

Lord Helmet
06-19-2006, 09:06 PM
So would lying to ourselves and acting like this team had a solid chance of winning a title over the next couple of years (which obviously doesn't look remotely possible at the moment) make us less "fair weather?"

It's not being "fair weather", it's seeing the writing on the wall. I've never understood why people act like fans can't be critical of a team. What's the point of blindly being optimistic and acting like this team has a real shot only to get your spirit broken at the end of the year? Who's been right more often than not over the past few Pacers seasons, the pessmistic ones, or the optimistic ones?

I think the answer is obvious.
Keyword there. At the moment. After the off-season, we might have a different look. Even though most will say what we do in the off-season will be so small, it won't matter. But, maybe even with the little, if we can have an injury-free season, and a total year of no Artest, it might be better, who knows.

The thing with pessimists is they won't ever allow themselves to think anything good of their team, which is sad. I mean I'll admit, I can get there, but I'll let the Pacers play next year dictate my feelings on next year, not last year's play.

I will say, also, I don't expect too much from them this year, the only thing I expect is a Colts Super Bowl appearance, go ahead laugh.

I expect a deeper playoff run for the Pacers, too. I want ECF. Losing in the first round, going one and out, is not acceptable to me.


I think I'm probably the crabbiest guy on here about the Pacers, but the only thing that would cause me to stop watching/ cheering for them would be if some new owners moved the team out of Indy.

Otherwise, that's "my" team, even if they disgust me (and this past season, disgust was the right word.)
Yep, I'd find it hard rooting for them if they were out of Indy.

FrenchConnection
06-19-2006, 10:04 PM
The more I think about the original post, the more I get annoyed. Basketball is a team sport, and Wade and LeBron don't play by themselves. Maybe if the NBA was a 1-on-1 league, then his post would be true, but LeBron doesn't have the team to win and Wade without a mobile, healthy Shaq is no better than Kobe without Shaq. And are the Spurs done? How about the Pistons? Losing one playoff series means that they are headed for the lottery? Come on!

Also, NO, you cannnot really care about another team. You can enjoy watching them (I actually enjoy watching the Mavs and the Suns more than the Pacers), but if you are getting butterflys before games, having wins and losses affect your mood, checking message boards and reading trade rumors, then you are a traitor and should just go over to the other side. Just become a fan of whatever team is winning, you Celtics/Lakers/Pistons/Bulls/ Rockets/Lakers/Spurs/Pistons/Heat fan.

Lord Helmet
06-19-2006, 10:14 PM
The more I think about the original post, the more I get annoyed. Basketball is a team sport, and Wade and LeBron don't play by themselves. Maybe if the NBA was a 1-on-1 league, then his post would be true, but LeBron doesn't have the team to win and Wade without a mobile, healthy Shaq is no better than Kobe without Shaq. And are the Spurs done? How about the Pistons? Losing one playoff series means that they are headed for the lottery? Come on!

Also, NO, you cannnot really care about another team. You can enjoy watching them (I actually enjoy watching the Mavs and the Suns more than the Pacers), but if you are getting butterflys before games, having wins and losses affect your mood, checking message boards and reading trade rumors, then you are a traitor and should just go over to the other side. Just become a fan of whatever team is winning, you Celtics/Lakers/Pistons/Bulls/ Rockets/Lakers/Spurs/Pistons/Heat fan.
Yeah, I don't know how I could ever get the butterflies before any other team besides the Pacers....

Especially before a playoff game. :uhoh:

vapacersfan
06-19-2006, 10:22 PM
With the way management structured this team's core (Ron Artest's salary being the calayst), unless we get a major gift via trade from other teams or JO loses his mind and plays like a beast...

the Pacers will be an overachieving mediocre team at best for the next 2-3 seasons...

so i suggest you pick between LbJ and Flash now if you still haven't because that's pretty much what we're going to see for the next 5 years.

And the Kings were a lock to win the WCF's, right................

SoupIsGood
06-19-2006, 11:03 PM
Wade/Bron is a tough choice. Both a very fun to watch. I'll take Wade though, he drives it hard to the basket more often.

PacerMan
06-19-2006, 11:15 PM
With the way management structured this team's core (Ron Artest's salary being the calayst), unless we get a major gift via trade from other teams or JO loses his mind and plays like a beast...

the Pacers will be an overachieving mediocre team at best for the next 2-3 seasons...

so i suggest you pick between LbJ and Flash now if you still haven't because that's pretty much what we're going to see for the next 5 years.


Open your shades in the morning, the sun is still coming up.

Steve McQueen
06-19-2006, 11:30 PM
If you're a fan of more than 1 team, then you're not a true fan of any team.

Besides, if the Pacers can finally stay healthy, I think we easily win 50+ games. I think you all underrate our talent a good deal. JO/Peja is an All-Star duo and Tinsley, Jackson, Granger, Foster etc. are great role players, with Granger and Harrison having the potential to be great starters. Besides, the Heat turn into bottom feeders as soon as Shaq retires, and the Cavs will continue to be middle of the pack untill they sign a legit sidekick for LeBron.

Robertmto
06-19-2006, 11:56 PM
If you're a fan of more than 1 team, then you're not a true fan of any team.

Besides, if the Pacers can finally stay healthy, I think we easily win 50+ games. I think you all underrate our talent a good deal. JO/Peja is an All-Star duo and Tinsley, Jackson, Granger, Foster etc. are great role players, with Granger and Harrison having the potential to be great starters. Besides, the Heat turn into bottom feeders as soon as Shaq retires, and the Cavs will continue to be middle of the pack untill they sign a legit sidekick for LeBron.

But there lies the problem. The Pacers never stay healthy. lol

BillS
06-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Sorry, this has to come out.

Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled.

You sound like the Braves fans. "We hate getting to the playoffs every year. Make some major changes so we can win it all. Oops, those changes screwed up the team? Helllooooo Mets!" Then, as soon as everything gels, they're back to claiming to have been fans all their lives.

Even Peck has admitted that some risky moves were made in the last few years. They've turned out to be the wrong ones, but Donnie Do-Nothing put his rep on the line to try to get some talent together and it backfired.

Clippers fans, or Warriors fans, or Hawks fans, or Wizards fans, or fans of some other franchise that hasn't had anywhere near the success of the Pacers over the last 10 years, look at our whining and think what punks we all are. Injuries? Look at the number of seasons where we didn't have a single serious injury to a major player and tell me at some point it isn't just the law of averages catching up. Bad character on the team? Can you say, "Isiah Rider"?

To me, changing fan loyalty is something you can only do once per team. If you decide that the Pacers are no longer your team, fine and dandy, but don't come crawling back should our fortunes reverse, and at least hold your new team to the same standard.

Otherwise, admit to yourselves that NBA superstar-based marketing has worked on you and that you aren't a fan of a team, just a fan of the Latest Hyped Player Shaquille Kobe Wade-James or whomever.

Please note that if you criticize the team and its moves and yet remain a fan of the team I will never say a word against you (I may argue with you, but that's my prerogative). It's only when you decide that hype beats hope and take your ball and go home that I write you off.

Choose not to support the team, that's your right and privilege. But don't get all bent out of shape when they get moved out of town.

Unclebuck
06-20-2006, 08:25 AM
Sorry, this has to come out.

Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled.

You sound like the Braves fans. "We hate getting to the playoffs every year. Make some major changes so we can win it all. Oops, those changes screwed up the team? Helllooooo Mets!" Then, as soon as everything gels, they're back to claiming to have been fans all their lives.

Even Peck has admitted that some risky moves were made in the last few years. They've turned out to be the wrong ones, but Donnie Do-Nothing put his rep on the line to try to get some talent together and it backfired.

Clippers fans, or Warriors fans, or Hawks fans, or Wizards fans, or fans of some other franchise that hasn't had anywhere near the success of the Pacers over the last 10 years, look at our whining and think what punks we all are. Injuries? Look at the number of seasons where we didn't have a single serious injury to a major player and tell me at some point it isn't just the law of averages catching up. Bad character on the team? Can you say, "Isiah Rider"?

To me, changing fan loyalty is something you can only do once per team. If you decide that the Pacers are no longer your team, fine and dandy, but don't come crawling back should our fortunes reverse, and at least hold your new team to the same standard.

Otherwise, admit to yourselves that NBA superstar-based marketing has worked on you and that you aren't a fan of a team, just a fan of the Latest Hyped Player Shaquille Kobe Wade-James or whomever.

Please note that if you criticize the team and its moves and yet remain a fan of the team I will never say a word against you (I may argue with you, but that's my prerogative). It's only when you decide that hype beats hope and take your ball and go home that I write you off.

Choose not to support the team, that's your right and privilege. But don't get all bent out of shape when they get moved out of town.

Here, here

Gyron
06-20-2006, 08:49 AM
Sorry, this has to come out.

Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled.

You sound like the Braves fans. "We hate getting to the playoffs every year. Make some major changes so we can win it all. Oops, those changes screwed up the team? Helllooooo Mets!" Then, as soon as everything gels, they're back to claiming to have been fans all their lives.

Even Peck has admitted that some risky moves were made in the last few years. They've turned out to be the wrong ones, but Donnie Do-Nothing put his rep on the line to try to get some talent together and it backfired.

Clippers fans, or Warriors fans, or Hawks fans, or Wizards fans, or fans of some other franchise that hasn't had anywhere near the success of the Pacers over the last 10 years, look at our whining and think what punks we all are. Injuries? Look at the number of seasons where we didn't have a single serious injury to a major player and tell me at some point it isn't just the law of averages catching up. Bad character on the team? Can you say, "Isiah Rider"?

To me, changing fan loyalty is something you can only do once per team. If you decide that the Pacers are no longer your team, fine and dandy, but don't come crawling back should our fortunes reverse, and at least hold your new team to the same standard.

Otherwise, admit to yourselves that NBA superstar-based marketing has worked on you and that you aren't a fan of a team, just a fan of the Latest Hyped Player Shaquille Kobe Wade-James or whomever.

Please note that if you criticize the team and its moves and yet remain a fan of the team I will never say a word against you (I may argue with you, but that's my prerogative). It's only when you decide that hype beats hope and take your ball and go home that I write you off.

Choose not to support the team, that's your right and privilege. But don't get all bent out of shape when they get moved out of town.

Totally agree. Win or Lose, they are still my team.

RWB
06-20-2006, 08:50 AM
I would say Keg is just showing major frustation after being used as a cash cow since 2000. While I personally hate the thought of going to the other side the family and I only make it somewhere between 5 and 10 games a year.

I can't imagine being a season ticket holder the last few years and feeling you're being bent over so to speak.

Putnam
06-20-2006, 08:57 AM
We need more than one word to describe what a "fan" is.

Some people are totally committed to their team and support them always, hardly noticing wins and losses. They ignore reality and play a lot of "if only" games, and they always believe that next season will be just great. We were all that way about our high school teams, probably.

But other people have different expectations. Now that they are paying $100 or more for an evening at Conseco with their family, they expect the team will show some character, give 48 minutes, etc. Some of these people might seriously want an Indiana Championship at least once in their lifetime, and they want to see the team building towards that, even if it is not competing for it in any particular year.

There are people who like the game, and legitimately enjoy watching it played well. So, in a season when the Pacers' games were slow and often marked by bad behavior and sloth, they turned to the Suns, Mavericks, or other teams that were playing a better brand of basketball. This is just as legitimate as people like me who never watched any other teams when they weren't playing the Pacers.

And there is another kind of fan -- typified on Pacers Digest by Jermaniac, Lithfan and 8.9 seconds -- who seem to love a particular player more than the team or the game itself.

With all these different kinds of "fan" it is not surprising that they disagree on how a fan should think or act.

beast23
06-20-2006, 09:03 AM
With the way management structured this team's core (Ron Artest's salary being the calayst), unless we get a major gift via trade from other teams or JO loses his mind and plays like a beast...

the Pacers will be an overachieving mediocre team at best for the next 2-3 seasons...

so i suggest you pick between LbJ and Flash now if you still haven't because that's pretty much what we're going to see for the next 5 years.I think you'll find that most on this forum identify much more with a team than with a single player. And, as evidenced by the significant debate we've had over Bender, Artest, Tinsley and Jackson, it should be pretty obvious that an intense dislike that some of us have toward a single player will never sway us from continuing to back the team.

Another intense dislike that I have is the "ESPN highlight" reel. I like ESPN reporting and getting to see some of the action from each game played, but I absolutely hate the way they play up the dunk, or one-on-one play or the posterizing shot block.

IMO, ESPN may have helped make the NBA more popular, but it has also helped create more people in the fan base who have become fans of individual players. Or.... bandwagon fans, if you would like to use that word. They back the Bulls because of Michael, then switch to the Lakers because of Kobe and Shaq, then switch to the Cavs or the Heat because of.... well, you get the picture.

fwpacerfan
06-20-2006, 09:06 AM
There are times I wish I could change team allegiance (especially last year), but I've tried and I can't. I don't know what it is that keeps true fans rooting for their team no matter what but there is something there.

Maybe it's the memories of going to Pacers games with my Dad when I was 7 that keep me there. Maybe it's all the times I commiserated with friends over how bad the 80's pacer teams were. Maybe it's the memory of Byron Scott hitting a last second shot that prevailed the Pacers over Shaq's Magic, a series that the Pacers were given 0% chance of winning. Maybe it's remembering the success of the 90's teams. Maybe it's the exhiliration of Reggie's 8 second miracle moment over the Knicks. Maybe it's the frustration of Larry Johnson's 4 point play. Maybe it's the pain of Travis Best trying to shoot a game winner over Shaq in the 2000 finals instead of passing to an open man.

I don't know what it is, but I know that true fans have it and it doesn't go away. No matter how frustrated the team makes you.

Unclebuck
06-20-2006, 09:22 AM
I can't imagine being a season ticket holder the last few years and feeling you're being bent over so to speak.



I don't believe that at all.

I agreed with how they handled Artest, and I agreed with the gambles that were taken.

Kegboy
06-20-2006, 09:45 AM
I would say Keg is just showing major frustation after being used as a cash cow since 2000. While I personally hate the thought of going to the other side the family and I only make it somewhere between 5 and 10 games a year.

I can't imagine being a season ticket holder the last few years and feeling you're being bent over so to speak.

:nod:

The issue isn't about winning and losing. Hell, I've made it abundantly clear that I enjoyed the Isiah years more than I enjoyed the Bird years. It's just that when you truly feel that the team is ****ed up from top to bottom, and fear that nothing is going to be done about it, it's pretty damn hard to enjoy watching them.

Also, I think you guys are reading way to much into Deny's post. I read it as, "The Pacers aren't going to be playing at this time of year anytime soon, so you might as well find somebody to root for in May and June."


I agreed with how they handled Artest

:faint:

SoupIsGood
06-20-2006, 10:09 AM
We need more than one word to describe what a "fan" is.

Some people are totally committed to their team and support them always, hardly noticing wins and losses. They ignore reality and play a lot of "if only" games, and they always believe that next season will be just great. We were all that way about our high school teams, probably.

But other people have different expectations. Now that they are paying $100 or more for an evening at Conseco with their family, they expect the team will show some character, give 48 minutes, etc. Some of these people might seriously want an Indiana Championship at least once in their lifetime, and they want to see the team building towards that, even if it is not competing for it in any particular year.

There are people who like the game, and legitimately enjoy watching it played well. So, in a season when the Pacers' games were slow and often marked by bad behavior and sloth, they turned to the Suns, Mavericks, or other teams that were playing a better brand of basketball. This is just as legitimate as people like me who never watched any other teams when they weren't playing the Pacers.

And there is another kind of fan -- typified on Pacers Digest by Jermaniac, Lithfan and 8.9 seconds -- who seem to love a particular player more than the team or the game itself.

With all these different kinds of "fan" it is not surprising that they disagree on how a fan should think or act.

Nice sig.

ChicagoJ
06-20-2006, 10:24 AM
I can't imagine being a season ticket holder the last few years and feeling you're being bent over so to speak.

I don't feel like I've been "bent over."

I think management has made a series of foolish mistakes over the past few years. And since I lay my money down for tickets, the league pass, etc., and spend a bunch of time in the car communting from another city just to see Pacers' games, I think I've got the right to second-guess them.

Only a couple of times, however, have I felt that the team was not giving its best effort - although SJax's behavior during the Atlanta game (the night after Thanksgiving) was very repulsive.

Then again, I always believed Ron Artest would continue to show his true colors, so I never had much hope for that version of the team anyway.

1996-97 (The Season We Do Not Discuss) was more maddening to me, because my expectations were higher.

Sollozzo
06-20-2006, 11:56 AM
And the Kings were a lock to win the WCF's, right................


Uh, when were the Kings a lock to win the WCF's?

The only year the Kings were maybe picked to win it all by some would have been in 03 before Webber went down against Dallas. I think more would have picked the Spurs or the Lakers that year though. In 02, the Lakers were certainly expected to beat them in the WCF's, and they did.

Which is irrelavant anyway, because the Kings never had a player like Wade or Lebron. It should be obvious by now that these are 2 extremely special players who are going to be around for a long long time. It's going to be hard for the Pacers, or any other team to get past Lebron once he gets a perfect supporting cast. The Pistons almost fell victim to him this year.


Sorry, this has to come out.

Clippers fans, or Warriors fans, or Hawks fans, or Wizards fans, or fans of some other franchise that hasn't had anywhere near the success of the Pacers over the last 10 years, look at our whining and think what punks we all are. Injuries? Look at the number of seasons where we didn't have a single serious injury to a major player and tell me at some point it isn't just the law of averages catching up. Bad character on the team? Can you say, "Isiah Rider"?





I've never understood this line of thinking. Should we all just be happy with consistantly being in upper mediocrity just because there are franchises like the Clippers, Warriors, and Hawks who consistantly suck?

Other franchises miseries don't make me feel any better about the fact that the Pacers have dwindled in mediocrity for the past 6 years, with the exception of one season.

vapacersfan
06-20-2006, 12:10 PM
Uh, when were the Kings a lock to win the WCF's?

The only year the Kings were maybe picked to win it all by some would have been in 03 before Webber went down against Dallas. I think more would have picked the Spurs or the Lakers that year though. In 02, the Lakers were certainly expected to beat them in the WCF's, and they did.

Which is irrelavant anyway, because the Kings never had a player like Wade or Lebron. It should be obvious by now that these are 2 extremely special players who are going to be around for a long long time. It's going to be hard for the Pacers, or any other team to get past Lebron once he gets a perfect supporting cast. The Pistons almost fell victim to him this year.





I've never understood this line of thinking. Should we all just be happy with consistantly being in upper mediocrity just because there are franchises like the Clippers, Warriors, and Hawks who consistantly suck?

Other franchises miseries don't make me feel any better about the fact that the Pacers have dwindles mediocrity for the past 6 years, with the exception of one season.

You missed my point. I was being sarcastic, since the poster who made this thread also made this (http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20623) thread claiming the Kings would go to the WCF's.

As for the topic at hand, I always laugh when these discussions come up. Being a Redskins fan, I have gotten used to following another team during the playoffs, and rooting for that team through the playoffs. At first I rooted for the Vikings, and lately I have just picked the underdog, although last year I was pulling for the Colts. Granted the Skins finally winning and making the playoffs made it funner to root for them again.

I dont think it matters how many teams you have, or if/when you decide to pull for them. People are quick to label "fair weather" and the such, but when you are paying as much as fans do now adays, I have no problem with fans getting tired and rooting for another team/teams. Hell, Ill admit the last two years I have been pulling for the Heat, even if I hate Shaq and Walker.

I will always be there for my home team (Notre Dame, Redskins, Orioles, and Pacers) but I also will never have a problem rooting for another team, esp. if my team is in a slump.

Sollozzo
06-20-2006, 12:21 PM
You missed my point. I was being sarcastic, since the poster who made this thread also made this (http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20623) thread claiming the Kings would go to the WCF's.

As for the topic at hand, I always laugh when these discussions come up. Being a Redskins fan, I have gotten used to following another team during the playoffs, and rooting for that team through the playoffs. At first I rooted for the Vikings, and lately I have just picked the underdog, although last year I was pulling for the Colts. Granted the Skins finally winning and making the playoffs made it funner to root for them again.

I dont think it matters how many teams you have, or if/when you decide to pull for them. People are quick to label "fair weather" and the such, but when you are paying as much as fans do now adays, I have no problem with fans getting tired and rooting for another team/teams. Hell, Ill admit the last two years I have been pulling for the Heat, even if I hate Shaq and Walker.

I will always be there for my home team (Notre Dame, Redskins, Orioles, and Pacers) but I also will never have a problem rooting for another team, esp. if my team is in a slump.



My mistake. I thought you were challenging his point about Wade and Lebron by bringing up the fact that many people picked the Webber led Kings to win it all but they failed.

I agree with what you've said. Once your team is done and eliminated, it's natural to pick another team to pull for.

Putnam
06-20-2006, 12:30 PM
I've never understood this line of thinking. Should we all just be happy with consistantly being in upper mediocrity just because there are franchises like the Clippers, Warriors, and Hawks who consistantly suck?



There are "fans" who say "Yes" to this question. There is still a lot in Indy to be satisfied with: the Pacemates are pretty, Boomer and Bowser are funny, Mark and Slick are great on the radio, Reggie's number is in the rafters, Artest is gone, Granger is the future.....BOOM BABY!!!!!

Personally, Adam1987, I'm with you. I want to see an NBA championship in Conseco Fieldhouse. I want to know the team is building toward that -- not just aiming for a playoff berth, and not just filling seats. Rebuilding for a season or two is much more acceptible to me than standing pat with a crew that looks good but is only (dare I say it?) built for the regular season. I hate the prospects of going into another season with the same bunch of players, the same coach, and the same game plan that has disappointed before.

But it is not hard to understand the kind of fan who compares the Pacers to the worst in other cities and finds something to cheer for.

denyfizle
06-20-2006, 12:53 PM
Proving once again that Indy has more fair-weather fans than any city in the country.

really? i'm a basketball fan first, Pacer fan second. i would rather face reality and pull for for another team after my team gets knocked out than mope and cry like some.

FrenchConnection
06-20-2006, 03:19 PM
My mistake. I thought you were challenging his point about Wade and Lebron by bringing up the fact that many people picked the Webber led Kings to win it all but they failed.

I agree with what you've said. Once your team is done and eliminated, it's natural to pick another team to pull for.

You can "pull" for another team. I don't do this per se, but I do have a preference in every series. Like I wanted the Suns over the Mavs and the Pistons over the Heat, but now I don't want the Heat to win under any circumstances and this is making me almost a Mavs fan for a few weeks. But I don't really care. The games are not consuming my life, I get plenty of sleep, etc... But it will be a TRAGEDY for basketball fans everywhere (except of course in Miami) if the Heat win. You can see Bill Simmons' article for the reasons. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060620

.

Jermaniac
06-22-2006, 05:01 PM
We need more than one word to describe what a "fan" is.

Some people are totally committed to their team and support them always, hardly noticing wins and losses. They ignore reality and play a lot of "if only" games, and they always believe that next season will be just great. We were all that way about our high school teams, probably.

But other people have different expectations. Now that they are paying $100 or more for an evening at Conseco with their family, they expect the team will show some character, give 48 minutes, etc. Some of these people might seriously want an Indiana Championship at least once in their lifetime, and they want to see the team building towards that, even if it is not competing for it in any particular year.

There are people who like the game, and legitimately enjoy watching it played well. So, in a season when the Pacers' games were slow and often marked by bad behavior and sloth, they turned to the Suns, Mavericks, or other teams that were playing a better brand of basketball. This is just as legitimate as people like me who never watched any other teams when they weren't playing the Pacers.

And there is another kind of fan -- typified on Pacers Digest by Jermaniac, Lithfan and 8.9 seconds -- who seem to love a particular player more than the team or the game itself.

With all these different kinds of "fan" it is not surprising that they disagree on how a fan should think or act.
Are you mad? Do my posts hurt that deep that I get my own section of what kind of fan I'm. You know what I do and how I root for the Pacers but I dont even know you exist.

Yeah.........you are mad.

Putnam
06-22-2006, 09:05 PM
Are you mad? Do my posts hurt that deep that I get my own section of what kind of fan I'm. You know what I do and how I root for the Pacers but I dont even know you exist.

Yeah.........you are mad.

I'm not mad at all. I don't have enough ego to care what you think of me. My post is not even critical of you. It simply says that different people have different priorities that shape what kind of "fan" they are.

The thread was about what a "fan" should think or do. I simply posted that there are different kinds of fans, so one set of rules can't fairly apply to all. Have you ever been critical of Lithfan when he stands up for Sarunas? (Yes, you have.) Well, sometimes you seem that way to others of us who don't think JO has lived up to his potential, either. (He's a great player, but not above criticism.)

By the way, where do you get the "own section" notion? I listed three different people as examples of that type of fan. I'm not being critical of you or anyone.

Just keep on being Jermaniac.