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Frank Slade
06-19-2006, 11:05 AM
Are Pacers Poised To Draft Point?


Monday, June 19, 2006
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QUESTION
OF THE DAY

Conrad Brunner

Q. As the draft slowly approaches, I get more and more excited about the possibly drafting a skilled point guard. I like Sergio Rodriguez of Spain. He has an amazing vision of the floor, which is just what the Pacers need: a player to feed the ball inside to Jermaine (O'Neal) and be able to run a fluid fast break. Do you think the Pacers might draft him? If not, who do you think they will draft? Also, I don’t know much of the players Indiana is looking to select in the second round. Who might the 45th pick be? (From Paul in Baton Rouge, La.)


A. A point guard, by far, is the most popular projection for the Pacers in the various mock drafts with most of the focus on UCLA's Jordan Farmar and Kentucky's Rajon Rondo. Rodriguez's name also has popped into the middle third of the first round and has occasionally been linked to the Pacers.

In addition, a couple of combo guards, Mardy Collins of Temple and Quincy Douby of Rutgers, have been projected as possible Pacers picks.


Before we move on to discuss each prospect, we must first determine the likelihood the Pacers would use their top pick to add to the point-guard mix.

The primary need at the point is for a clear-cut starter. Jamaal Tinsley has the talent but not the durability. Anthony Johnson has made the most of his skills, but is he capable of leading an elite team? Sarunas Jasikevicius had an inconsistent rookie season that raised doubts about his ability to contribute on a consistent basis.


You can make an argument that adding a 20-year-old rookie (Farmar, Rondo and Rodriguez all are the same age) might not be the logical move, unless the herd is somehow thinned through a trade. Of course, you could also argue that it could be ideal for a rookie to spend a year or two as an apprentice behind Johnson (or Tinsley, or Jasikevicius) before stepping into the spotlight. The point is, though the picture at the point isn't clear, it isn't a slam-dunk the Pacers will use their first-round pick on that position.

If they do, here's a brief evaluation of the prospects: Rondo is dynamic but has major problems with his shot; Farmar is polished but not particularly athletic; Rodriguez appears to fit the same profile as Jasikevicius; Douby is a terrific shooter but could be a 'tweener; Collins has size but shot 29 percent from the 3-point line in his college career and 40 percent overall.

Because there isn't a great deal of separation between the point guards, it seems more likely the Pacers could use their first-round pick on a swingman to strengthen things at shooting guard and possibly small forward (Duke's J.J. Redick and Arkansas' Ronnie Brewer come to mind).

That would leave some interesting names as point guard possibilities in the second round, including Dee Brown (Illinois), Daniel Gibson (Texas), Gerry McNamara (Syracuse), Will Blalock (Iowa State) and Guillermo Diaz (Miami).

Pacers.Com (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/question.html)


Interestingly enough Bruno does not sound all too confident on any of our current PG's but inidcates he thinks the Pacers may look at a swingman instead..

D-BONE
06-19-2006, 11:18 AM
Actually, Bruno's suggestion of 1st rd swingman and 2nd rd PG (especially Dee Brown) doesn't sound bad to me. Don't know if he'd be available to us at 45. He's also diminutive but lightning fast. Probably worth a 2nd rd. shot. Of course, as many here have emphasized, another big body wouldn't hurt either so who knows.

microwave_oven
06-19-2006, 11:22 AM
Ronnie Brewer at 17??? If he's there, then you will have to get your point guard in the second. No way do the Pacers pass up on Brewer at 17. Unless Brandon Roy is still available.

Frank Slade
06-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Ronnie Brewer at 17??? If he's there, then you will have to get your point guard in the second. No way do the Pacers pass up on Brewer at 17. Unless Brandon Roy is still available.


No doubt about it... Brewer is a must at 17, can we pull it off two years in a row?

And I swear if Chicago picks him one pick before us.. :unimpress

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 11:56 AM
I would be tremendously happy if we could get Dee Brown in the 2nd. I like all those Illinois kids.

Putnam
06-19-2006, 12:04 PM
Are any of these point guard prospects definite starters in their rookie year? Because the Pacers need a starter at that position.

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 12:10 PM
Are any of these point guard prospects definite starters in their rookie year? Because the Pacers need a starter at that position.

Definite starters? Absolutely not. Could they start? Maybe. Guys like Tinsley, Parker, and Arenas all were drafted later, and were starters even though they weren't projected to be, so who knows. But nobody is a sure bet, even Williams. Hell, nobody is a sure bet in this draft, which is why this draft isn't very good.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 02:16 PM
Are any of these point guard prospects definite starters in their rookie year? Because the Pacers need a starter at that position.

I'd say Marcus Williams is the only one

pizza guy
06-19-2006, 04:03 PM
If we can't get Dee Brown in the 2nd, I'd be happy with Jerry Mac.

CableKC
06-19-2006, 04:54 PM
If Carlisle is still the coach....it won't matter...he won't play any of them....unless AJ, Tinsley, then Sarunas goes down with injury ( in that order ).

Also......Brewer will likely be picked by the 8 to 12 pick. The only way that we have a chance at him if we move up.

Between Ronnie Brewer, Rodney Carney and JJ Reddick ( at the SG spots )......with recent "issues" with Reddick....he is the only one that could possibly fall to the 17th pick. Brewer and Carney will be snatched up by Houston, NO or the Magic before we even get to our pick.

Trader Joe
06-19-2006, 06:52 PM
Brewer in the first would be an absolute steal if we stay at 17. He and Danny could be incredibly intimidating in a year or two. I like Gibson in the second he has a great offensive game and could maybe turn into a steal.

Kaufman
06-19-2006, 07:23 PM
Ronnie Brewer at 17??? If he's there, then you will have to get your point guard in the second. No way do the Pacers pass up on Brewer at 17. Unless Brandon Roy is still available.

The Pacers ARE actively trying to move up.

Young
06-19-2006, 07:27 PM
Well if we stay at 17, the best 2 guard who is likely to be avaliable is Thabo Sefolosha. Although i'm afraid Chicago snatches him up.

Anyways Thabo will probably be the best 2 we have a shot at when he pick at 17. As CableKC said, Brewer/Carney will be gone when we pick at 17 and I don't think we would want JJ Reddick with or without his recent issues.

Now back to Thabo, I have never seen him play. So I am just going by what I read, but I do love what I read about him.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=280

He has all the tools to be a great defenseive player in the NBA. I think his wingspan was recorded at 7'2 recently!

He is known for not only his defense, but his rebounding is good too. Ball handling/passing will be pretty decent by NBA standards, it sounds. He is not a shooter, or a scorer, it sounds like he is pretty unselfish but he has the work ethic to get better at shooting, so this won't be a problem as long as we don't expect him to be a franchise player and lead us in scoring every game...

It also sounds like he is a good guy off the court, which would be awesome.

If the Pacers want a 2, Thabo is the best 2 guard we have a real shot at when we pick 17th overall. Don't dream of us getting lucky like last year, Carney/Brewer WILL NOT fall to us at 17.

blanket
06-19-2006, 07:34 PM
Because there isn't a great deal of separation between the point guards, it seems more likely the Pacers could use their first-round pick on a swingman to strengthen things at shooting guard and possibly small forward (Duke's J.J. Redick and Arkansas' Ronnie Brewer come to mind).

I think there's a very good chance we'll trade up in this draft to a pick in the 10-13 range with the intention of taking one of these two guys (Redick or Brewer). Carney would be another possibility at this spot if the others are gone already or TPTB want to go in another direction.

After the interview with DW posted recently, I think there's already a package in place for a pick that includes Tinsley and just hinges on whether certain players are available at certain picks or not.

It will be a very exciting draft night, with a number of trades all around, I expect!

tadscout
06-19-2006, 07:52 PM
The Pacers ARE actively trying to move up.

That's what I think, and sure hope (I really want to get Roy or Brewer to get to play along side of Granger)...

Have any source where you heard this?

Kaufman
06-19-2006, 08:04 PM
That's what I think, and sure hope (I really want to get Roy or Brewer to get to play along side of Granger)...

Have any source where you heard this?

I don't really know how to answer that question. I would say on this one that I am my own source - maybe you can read between the lines a little easier than I can explain... Cryptic huh?

blanket
06-19-2006, 08:09 PM
I don't really know how to answer that question. I would say on this one that I am my own source - maybe you can read between the lines a little easier than I can explain... Cryptic huh?

So then who does your "source" ;) think the Pacers are trying to trade up to get?

Kaufman
06-19-2006, 08:37 PM
Without compromising anyone's integrity, I can say with certainty that the Pacers have interacted with players that are not going to be around at #17 and I also can say with certainty that the Pacers are aware that those players are not going to be around at #17. I can't say too much more than that, and I realize that I'm an *** for that and some of you folks might think I'm making this up. And also some of you might think or say that this isn't uncommon - teams looking at players who aren't going to be around at their pick. I am aware of that.

I do know that the Pacers are actively trying to move up. I don't know the players involved and it wouldn't be my place to know or inquire about something like that, but I am aware that they are looking to move up.

Slick Pinkham
06-19-2006, 08:38 PM
I'd say Marcus Williams is the only one

I thought so too until it was reported that Marcus tested out as the WORST ATHLETE among ALL of the guards tested:

(from insider)

Marcus Williams tested dead last among all guards in the draft. Guys like Gerry McNamara, Carl Krauser and even Mardy Collins tested better. When several GMs called him a below-average NBA athlete, they weren't kidding.

Kegboy
06-19-2006, 08:40 PM
I thought so too until it was reported that Marcus tested out as the WORST ATHLETE among ALL of the guards tested:

(from insider)

Marcus Williams tested dead last among all guards in the draft. Guys like Gerry McNamara, Carl Krauser and even Mardy Collins tested better. When several GMs called him a below-average NBA athlete, they weren't kidding.

Mark Jackson was a pretty terrible athlete, too. :shrug:

PacerFreak31
06-19-2006, 08:45 PM
Without compromising anyone's integrity, I can say with certainty that the Pacers have interacted with players that are not going to be around at #17 and I also can say with certainty that the Pacers are aware that those players are not going to be around at #17. I can't say too much more than that, and I realize that I'm an *** for that and some of you folks might think I'm making this up. And also some of you might think or say that this isn't uncommon - teams looking at players who aren't going to be around at their pick. I am aware of that.

I do know that the Pacers are actively trying to move up. I don't know the players involved and it wouldn't be my place to know or inquire about something like that, but I am aware that they are looking to move up.


Can you tell us how close we are to actually moving up? Are we just waiting to hear from other teams?

Kaufman
06-19-2006, 08:57 PM
Can you tell us how close we are to actually moving up? Are we just waiting to hear from other teams?

That I have no idea. I just know that they are looking at players that for sure won't be there at 17.

I am deducing that they are planning to move up otherwise why would they be asking around about certain players. I don't know if they have something on the table or what.

Outside of the scoop I have, I would presume that they will wait to see how things shuffle out draft night. My guess would be that they would package their first rounder and a player outside of JO or Granger, but I don't know and would hate to speculate.

PacerMan
06-19-2006, 08:59 PM
Without compromising anyone's integrity, I can say with certainty that the Pacers have interacted with players that are not going to be around at #17 and I also can say with certainty that the Pacers are aware that those players are not going to be around at #17. I can't say too much more than that, and I realize that I'm an *** for that and some of you folks might think I'm making this up. And also some of you might think or say that this isn't uncommon - teams looking at players who aren't going to be around at their pick. I am aware of that.

I do know that the Pacers are actively trying to move up. I don't know the players involved and it wouldn't be my place to know or inquire about something like that, but I am aware that they are looking to move up.

Players unexpectedly drop.\
See last year..........

Kaufman
06-19-2006, 09:02 PM
Players unexpectedly drop.\
See last year..........

That is true but that isn't what I'm basing my statement off of. The Pacers are pursuing players who shouldn't be available at their pick. I don't think that the Pacers really pursued Danny Granger, he just fell into their lap.

Bball
06-19-2006, 09:08 PM
That is true but that isn't what I'm basing my statement off of. The Pacers are pursuing players who shouldn't be available at their pick. I don't think that the Pacers really pursued Danny Granger, he just fell into their lap.

According to the local media Danny Granger did have a workout with the Pacers and Bird thanked him for coming but apologized for the trouble because he knew he wouldn't be around when the Pacers picked...

IIRC...

-Bball

Frank Slade
06-19-2006, 09:09 PM
According to the local media Danny Granger did have a workout with the Pacers and Bird thanked him for coming but apologized for the trouble because he knew he wouldn't be around when the Pacers picked...

IIRC...

-Bball


You are correct, I remember there was an Article in the Star, just before the draft stating just that.

BoomBaby31
06-19-2006, 09:36 PM
If I had the choice, I'd literally have to flip a coin for Serigo Rodriguez, and Farmar. I've been hearing so many good things about Rodriguez lately i'm starting to lean that way although we all know how the press is clueless.

The only thing that is concerning me is if the Pacers are truly trying to move up, they aren't looking at the PG position (unless they are totally locked in on one certian PG) because those 3 PG's named are going to go late teens early 20's right where we have our pick. Farmer or Rodriguez nothing against Rondo but, we need someone who can shoot a little. My prediction if they move up say 5+ spots I know they have to be thinking Redick seriously then a 2nd round PG pick. If some blue moon they get 2nd overall pick Morrison is it.

VF21
06-19-2006, 09:47 PM
Rodriquez is being mentioned a lot in connection with the Kings so I've read up a little. He's a lot like Jason Williams was when we got him. Raw and wild... it would take just the right coach to bring out the talent without killing the spirit. I just don't know if Carlisle would be up to the task. Plus, they're saying he may well opt to stay in Spain one more year.

On the other hand, Rondo has incredible court vision, along with good hands and quickness. He's got pure point guard instincts. You can teach a player to shoot. You can't teach the ability to see the whole court IMO.

I'd love to see him fall to #19, but I suspect that's not gonna happen. If he's around at 17, I would think Walsh and Bird would thank their lucky stars for "another Granger miracle."

;)

PacerFreak31
06-19-2006, 10:59 PM
All of this talk about a point gaurd leaves me to believe one thing. That we are most definately NOT looking for a point gaurd even if we keep the 17th pick. Everyone talks about how weak this draft is and how great next years should be I am sure we could find a much better point gaurd in next years draft. There are a few good SG's in this draft and I think we will get one. Plus we have to look at our situation. We have 3 PG's and will have for at least 2 more years (barring a trade). However, we only have on SG if Jones leaves so that would then become an area that we will need to address. So I see us going SG in this draft and then PG in next years draft.

blanket
06-20-2006, 03:21 PM
That is true but that isn't what I'm basing my statement off of. The Pacers are pursuing players who shouldn't be available at their pick. I don't think that the Pacers really pursued Danny Granger, he just fell into their lap.


According to the local media Danny Granger did have a workout with the Pacers and Bird thanked him for coming but apologized for the trouble because he knew he wouldn't be around when the Pacers picked...


My recollection is that Granger's agent arranged the workout for the Pacers last year as a favor between friends (agent and DW or LB, presumably). The fact he fell to us at 17 was fortuitous, but just dumb luck, too. No doubt we would've drafted him even if we hadn't gotten to work him out directly.

It sounds like Kaufman is describing something altogether different.

tadscout
06-20-2006, 03:54 PM
My recollection is that Granger's agent arranged the workout for the Pacers last year as a favor between friends (agent and DW or LB, presumably). The fact he fell to us at 17 was fortuitous, but just dumb luck, too. No doubt we would've drafted him even if we hadn't gotten to work him out directly.

It sounds like Kaufman is describing something altogether different.

:iagree:

PacerMan
06-20-2006, 05:12 PM
My recollection is that Granger's agent arranged the workout for the Pacers last year as a favor between friends (agent and DW or LB, presumably). The fact he fell to us at 17 was fortuitous, but just dumb luck, too. No doubt we would've drafted him even if we hadn't gotten to work him out directly.

It sounds like Kaufman is describing something altogether different.


That's funny, sounds like exactly the same thing to me.

blanket
06-20-2006, 05:25 PM
That's funny, sounds like exactly the same thing to me.

If I'm reading Kaufman's posts correctly, then the difference is that the Pacers are actively pursuing players projected to go in the lottery portion of the draft, well before our pick at 17. That might mean they are reviewing those players' medical records, attending their workouts, etc.

In addition, he says the Pacers are in fact attempting to trade up into a lottery pick, presumably to draft one of these players.

Does that still sound the same as what I described with the Granger situation?

Kaufman
06-20-2006, 06:06 PM
If I'm reading Kaufman's posts correctly, then the difference is that the Pacers are actively pursuing players projected to go in the lottery portion of the draft, well before our pick at 17. That might mean they are reviewing those players' medical records, attending their workouts, etc.

In addition, he says the Pacers are in fact attempting to trade up into a lottery pick, presumably to draft one of these players.

Does that still sound the same as what I described with the Granger situation?

Basically you are correct in what I was saying, meaning you were reading me correctly. I have no idea how much work they were doing on certain people last year but I do know how active they have been in pursuing a few 2 players this year. And my guess is that rare would be the chance that either of those two players that I know about will be around at 17, so my rhetorical question is, why would they spend so much time doing what they are doing? In addition to what insight I might have, it also arises to me that they would have to be actively looking to move up...

I could be wrong. Obviously there is a lot of speculation that occurs when it comes to the draft and or trades. So for a fact, I know that the Pacers are somewhat looking at two players that I know of, and to some degree I know they are looking to trade up and to some degree that is an assumption as delineated above.

blanket
06-20-2006, 06:19 PM
Basically you are correct in what I was saying, meaning you were reading me correctly. I have no idea how much work they were doing on certain people last year but I do know how active they have been in pursuing a few 2 players this year. And my guess is that rare would be the chance that either of those two players that I know about will be around at 17, so my rhetorical question is, why would they spend so much time doing what they are doing? In addition to what insight I might have, it also arises to me that they would have to be actively looking to move up...

I could be wrong. Obviously there is a lot of speculation that occurs when it comes to the draft and or trades. So for a fact, I know that the Pacers are somewhat looking at two players that I know of, and to some degree I know they are looking to trade up and to some degree that is an assumption as delineated above.

I assume you know the names of those players but aren't at liberty to share them with us.

But could you give us a sense of whether these are players roughly projected as top-of-the-lottery guys (like Morrison, Thomas, Gay, Aldridge, Bargnani, Roy) or mid- to late-lottery guys (like Foye, Redick, Brewer, Carney)?

Will Galen
06-20-2006, 06:29 PM
I assume you know the names of those players but aren't at liberty to share them with us.

But could you give us a sense of whether these are players roughly projected as top-of-the-lottery guys (like Morrison, Thomas, Gay, Aldridge, Bargnani, Roy) or mid- to late-lottery guys (like Foye, Redick, Brewer, Carney)?

Yeah, what he asked!

Anthem
06-20-2006, 06:53 PM
I'd rather know if they play the same position as Danger and Peja.

blanket
06-20-2006, 07:04 PM
I'd rather know if they play the same position as Danger and Peja.

If we trade up to draft a SF, then presumably one of the following would be happening, too:

- Granger gets traded (Noooooooo!!!!)
- Peja is not resigned (meh.)
- Granger is moved to SG
- We field a team of all SFs

Other than Morrison, I don't think any of the lottery-projected SFs are ready to contribute in the league right now anyway; and I think that's something DW/LB are looking for. That's why I think they're targeting Roy, Brewer, or (most likely) Redick.

Kaufman
06-20-2006, 07:53 PM
I assume you know the names of those players but aren't at liberty to share them with us.

But could you give us a sense of whether these are players roughly projected as top-of-the-lottery guys (like Morrison, Thomas, Gay, Aldridge, Bargnani, Roy) or mid- to late-lottery guys (like Foye, Redick, Brewer, Carney)?

I would respond by saying this: by what insight I have professionally and excluding the list of people that you have included, I wouldn't have guessed either of the two players as top 4 picks. I say this because I do know for fact that the 5th team has quite a bit of interest in one of the players. I also would say that I don't think one of the players would be a good character fit on the Pacers. Run with all I have given all you want, I better not say any further than that. :)

blanket
06-20-2006, 08:00 PM
I would respond by saying this: by what insight I have professionally and excluding the list of people that you have included, I wouldn't have guessed either of the two players as top 4 picks. I say this because I do know for fact that the 5th team has quite a bit of interest in one of the players. I also would say that I don't think one of the players would be a good character fit on the Pacers. Run with all I have given all you want, I better not say any further than that. :)

ooohhhhh, tender morsels of information!

That was one of the most confusing posts I've ever read here! :D talk a bout cryptic...

team 5 is Atlanta. They've been linked with Shelden Williams primarily, although early on I noted that they had interest in Bargnani and Marcus Williams.

Marcus Williams would fit the "questionable character" description, too.

hmm....

Will Galen
06-20-2006, 08:45 PM
Here's a blurb from Sam Smith. SAM'S QUOTE OF THE WEEK

'There are three safe picks in this draft. Everyone else is a question mark or risk. They're Adam Morrison, Brandon Roy and Shelden Williams.' -- Veteran NBA personnel expert

EDIT; People are questioning Atlanta's guarantee to Williams. Maybe they did it because they have a trade worked out with the Pacers.

Robertmto
06-20-2006, 09:40 PM
Here's a blurb from Sam Smith. SAM'S QUOTE OF THE WEEK

'There are three safe picks in this draft. Everyone else is a question mark or risk. They're Adam Morrison, Brandon Roy and Shelden Williams.' -- Veteran NBA personnel expert

EDIT; People are questioning Atlanta's guarantee to Williams. Maybe they did it because they have a trade worked out with the Pacers.

I just don't see why Atlanta would make him a gurantee. He would have been there regardless. Seattle guranteeing him would make sense tho. Maybe ATL and SEA have a trade worked out???

blanket
06-21-2006, 12:04 AM
OK, so my guess, based on Kaufman's info, is that the Pacers are primarily after Marcus Williams.

Further, I think we have a deal on the table with the Celtics at 7 (old pal Ainge) or the T'Wolves at 6 (old pal McHale) that includes one of our PGs (probably Tinsley).

However, TPTB are worried that the Hawks at 5 will take him.

I'm not sure who the other player is that we covet...

thoughts? ideas?

SoupIsGood
06-21-2006, 01:34 AM
OK, so my guess, based on Kaufman's info, is that the Pacers are primarily after Marcus Williams.

Further, I think we have a deal on the table with the Celtics at 7 (old pal Ainge) or the T'Wolves at 6 (old pal McHale) that includes one of our PGs (probably Tinsley).

However, TPTB are worried that the Hawks at 5 will take him.

I'm not sure who the other player is that we covet...

thoughts? ideas?

Hmmm, maybe Foye? I dunno.

Kegboy
06-21-2006, 12:25 PM
I just don't see why Atlanta would make him a gurantee.

Maybe they're playing nice with his agent, to help in the FA market.