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Jose Slaughter
06-17-2006, 04:00 AM
http://nbadraft.net/2006campmeasurements002.asp

NBA Pre-Draft Athleticism Test Results Released

It doesn't copy well so I'll leave it to you to check out the link.

Slick Pinkham
06-17-2006, 10:22 AM
from insider (sorry- can't format the table)

Combine results:

While the height and weight measurements from the NBA predraft camp are interesting and relevant, NBA GMs and scouts also spend a lot of time dissecting the results of the NBA physical combine.

Last year Joey Graham (Raptors) rated as the top athlete in the draft, boosting his draft stock. Rashad McCants (Timberwolves) and Luther Head (Rockets) also finished in the top 10 and saw a nice little bump to their stock, too.


Players are asked to bench press 185 pounds as many times as they can, test their vertical jump two ways (no step and maximum) and run several drills to measure speed and lateral quickness.


For the fourth straight year Insider has obtained this confidential report from a league source.


North Carolina's David Noel tested as the top athlete in the draft. He was followed by Arkansas' Ronnie Brewer, Louisiana Lafayette's Dwyane Mitchell, Michigan's Daniel Horton, Memphis' Rodney Carney, Villanova's Randy Foye, Louisville's Taquan Dean, Georgetown's Brandon Bowman, Maryland's Nik Caner-Medley and UNLV's Louis Amundson.


St. Louis' Ian Vouyoukas, Denver's Yemi Nicholson, Bradley's Patrick O'Bryant, Oklahoma State's Frans Steyn and Texas' Brad Buckman tested as the worst athletes in the draft.


UCLA's Jordan Farmar shocked everyone by recording the biggest maximum vertical with a whopping 42 inches. Five other players jumped 40 or more inches in the maximum vertical jump: Mitchell (41.5), Brewer (41), UConn's Rudy Gay (40.5), Washington's Brandon Roy (40.5) and Iowa State's Will Blalock (40). Nicholson (26) and UConn's Marcus Williams (28) had the two worst scores in the camp.


Hartford's Kenny Adeleke and Gonzaga's J.P. Batista tested as the strongest athletes in the camp. They both bench pressed a 185-pound bar 26 times. Three other players got the bar up 20 or more times: Duke's Shelden Williams (25), Bowman (24) and Cincinnati's Eric Hicks (20). Memphis' Shawne Williams tested the worst with zero reps.


In the lane agility testing, Horton had the best score, finishing the drill in 10.35 seconds. Foye and Dean tied for second at 10.53 seconds. Noel and Illinois' James Augustine (10.54) also tested very fast. Nicholson had the worst score (13.7 seconds).


In the three-quarter-court sprints, Carney led the way in a blinding 3.06 seconds. Noel (3.07), George Washington's Danilo Pinnock (3.08) and Charlotte's Curtis Withers (3.1) also tested well. Nicholson came in last again (3.72).


Here's a look at how the top players in the draft performed in every category:


COMBINE RESULTS
Player Rank /No step vertical/ Max vertical/ Benchpress/ Lane agility/ Sprint
Maurice Ager 37 29.5 35 11 11.73 3.22
LaMarcus Aldridge 68 26.5 34 8 12.02 3.43
Hilton Armstrong 67 28.5 31.5 13 12.28 3.53
Ronnie Brewer 2 35 41 19 11.32 3.14
Rodney Carney 5 32 38.5 10 10.57 3.06
Mardy Collins 33 31.5 37.5 9 12 3.27
Jordan Farmar 12 33.5 42 11 11.07 3.17
Randy Foye 6 32 38 14 10.53 3.23
Rudy Gay 26 33 40.5 9 11.03 3.32
Aaron Gray 75 26.5 30.5 17 12.63 3.71
Adam Morrison 59 25.5 30.5 11 11.46 3.37
Patrick O'Bryant 79 26.5 30 13 12.68 3.63
J.J. Redick 51 27.5 33 6 10.94 3.29
Brandon Roy 30 34 40.5 6 11.13 3.27
Saer Sene 72 28.5 31 7 12.52 3.38
Cedric Simmons 20 30.5 35 15 11.05 3.31
Tyrus Thomas 21 34 39.5 8 11.36 3.2
Marcus Williams 73 24.5 28 4 11.3 3.4
Shawne Williams 57 32 31 0 10.69 3.3
Shelden Williams 31 29 33.25 25 11.53 3.59


Analysis: The big winner here is obviously Brewer, who tested much better than expected in the vertical jump and strength categories. Combine that with his excellent measurements, and it looks like Brewer could move up in the draft. You don't find that combination of size, strength and athleticism in a guard very often. His so-so lane agility test was the only thing that hurt him, but given his size the score isn't bad.


Farmar also should get a big boost from his combine results. No one -- and I mean no one -- expected him to top out the vertical jump testing. He also tested well in the strength department. His speed scores were a little on the average side for a point guard, but given the type of game that he plays, this was a win for Farmar.


People have been saying Foye is a poor man's Dwyane Wade. How does the tale of the tape between the two compare athletically? Here's a look at Foye compared to Wade's 2003 testing:


TALE OF THE TAPE: WADE VS. FOYE
Height Weight Wingspan Standing
reach Max vert Bench Lane agility Sprint
Wade 6-5 212 6' 10¾" 8' 6" 35 9 10.56 3.08
Foye 6-3½ 212 6' 6¼" 8' 1" 38 14 10.53 3.23



Wade is considerably bigger when you add wingspan and standing reach to the equation. Foye jumps higher and is stronger. Both have similar lateral quickness, but where Wade really shines is in the sprint. That score would've been good for third place in this draft class.

Gay, Thomas and Carney have been billed as the best athletes in the draft, and their scores certainly verified that. What was a little more surprising was Roy. He's been billed as an average athlete, but he tested better than expected -- especially his 40.5-inch vertical.


As we reported earlier, Redick tested better than you'd think in just about every category except strength. He is by no means a great athlete, but he's not a bad one, either.


Five top players really took a huge hit in the testing.


Marcus Williams tested dead last among all guards in the draft. Guys like Gerry McNamara, Carl Krauser and even Mardy Collins tested better. When several GMs called him a below-average NBA athlete, they weren't kidding.


Collins didn't fare so well himself. The lane agility score of 12 seconds is awful for a guy trying to play guard.


O'Bryant also tested poorly for a guy who looks so athletic out there. He tested as the 18th-best center at his position. That's not good. His vertical jump, lane agility and sprint were all poor. That was a major surprise.


Texas' LaMarcus Aldridge is athletic but he pales in comparison to LSU's Tyrus Thomas in almost every category. Aldridge ended up being ranked 28th out of 33 power forwards in the draft.


Gonzaga's Adam Morrison also didn't do anything to dispel talk that he's not a great athlete. Only one true small forward, Marquette's Steve Novak, tested worse. The only thing that saved Morrison from sinking to last place was a good showing in the bench press.


One note: A number of potential first-rounders were either not invited to the combine or were unable to attend, so we don't have their scores. They include Italy's Andrea Bargnani, Kentucky's Rajon Rondo, Villanova's Kyle Lowry, Michigan State's Shannon Brown, Switzerland's Thabo Sefolosha, Ukraine's Olexsiy Pecherov, Florida State's Alexander Johnson, Miami's Guillermo Diaz, Rutgers' Quincy Douby, Cincinnati's James White, UConn's Josh Boone, Colorado's Richard Roby and Texas' Daniel Gibson.

birdman
06-17-2006, 11:18 AM
It would be a huge steal if we could get Farmar. Everything I've heard about him sounds great. Someone between 10-15 will probably snag him though.

Robertmto
06-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Saer Sene who is already 7 foot and has a 7'8 wingspan can get up 31.5 inches? This guy is gonna be a shot-blocker. However he looks kind of weak. Only 9 bench presses. He was also the fastest of all big mean at 3.38 seconds. My new #1 man is Saer Sene, Hilton Armstrong is now 2nd and Gray (who will already be gone, which is why i'm not getting my hopes up) is 3rd.

Lets fill that center position Grunfeld!

Gamble
06-17-2006, 12:18 PM
It would be a huge steal if we could get Farmar. Everything I've heard about him sounds great. Someone between 10-15 will probably snag him though.

Offensively yes but defensively no. He might be another TInsley with
good sinus cavities but I am not sold. At this point I hope we get
Rajan Rondo but I doubt Bird will want him.

Will Galen
06-17-2006, 12:58 PM
I want to move up far enough to get Brewer. I think it's doable.

blanket
06-17-2006, 04:02 PM
My new #1 man is Saer Sene, Hilton Armstrong is now 2nd and Gray (who will already be gone, which is why i'm not getting my hopes up) is 3rd.!

Are you thinking Chicago will take Gray?

I think Saer Sene will go before Gray, and perhaps Armstrong will too. I'm not sure any of them will be picked before the Wiz at 18 -- maybe one of them, but I doubt it's Gray...

There's still some question as to whether Gray will keep his name in the draft, but I guess we'll find that out today or tomorrow. I noticed, for example, that NBADraft.net's latest mock draft from yesterday excludes Rudy Fernandez, so maybe he withdrew, too.


I want to move up far enough to get Brewer. I think it's doable.

We'd have to move up at least 4-7 spots, maybe more. As much as I'd like to get him, I think we'd have to give up too much to move that far up.

BlueNGold
06-17-2006, 04:42 PM
I want to move up far enough to get Brewer. I think it's doable.

My favorites are Rudy Gay and Randy Foye. We only get them if we trade up. Saer Sene, Ronnie Brewer, Shelden Williams, Farmar or Cedric Simmons might be available at #17 if we are lucky. I would take them in that order.

SoupIsGood
06-18-2006, 10:05 AM
Wow, how can you not want Farmar at this point?

He has been impressing all over the place lately. If he is another Tinsley, then that is PERFECT. Tinsley was an execptionally skilled player. A Tinsley type player without the baggage or injuries would be an amazing pickup, and we'd probably be contending in a few years once he hit his stride.

Eindar
06-18-2006, 11:00 AM
I don't know if I'd compare Farmar to Tinsley. I don't think Farmar's court vision is quite that good, but looking at them coming out of college, Farmar is a FAR better athlete, but not as big as Tinsley.

I think Farmar will be a good quarterback, passer, and penetrator, but I think he'll get posted up a lot on the defensive end as a starter, because he's a little short and a little small.

Looking at the prospects, I like where we're drafting right now. There's not much dropoff from 7 down to 17, so we're going to be able to snag a guy who's going to be a good pro. There's no Lebron in this draft, but I see a lot of fringe starters.

aceace
06-18-2006, 12:02 PM
I wonder how Chris Paul did last year, anybody know where to look?

He had a little bit of game that helped him regardless of the scores.

wintermute
06-19-2006, 11:15 AM
DraftExpress has some commentary on the whole athleticism test thing:

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1351

Basically, questions the validity of the test results versus actually playing the game of basketball, and gives some glaring examples.

And to answer the question, according to the above article, Chris Paul was the #15 athlete last year.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 11:44 AM
Wow, how can you not want Farmar at this point?

He never shot better than 41% in a very defensively weak Pac 10, he turns the ball over a lot (3.6 TO per game on a team that played at a defensive minded/slow-down tempo), doesn't get that many steals for a guy known as a defensive wiz.

He also sorta looks like a sex offender to me. Not like a molester or anything, but he has that sketchy statutory/date rape type of look to him. Not sure I'd want him and Jax spending their nights together in South Beach, LA or New York together during road trips.

Slick Pinkham
06-19-2006, 11:54 AM
It's interesting that the non-athletic Redick has a 33 inch vertical.

Who on the Pacers other than Freddie can top that?

Jermaine- maybe
Danny- probably
Jeff- perhaps
Jax- I'd guess not

Tins, Saras, AJ, Peja, Austin, David, Scot-- all not close IMO.

This is not an argument to draft JJ, but perhaps another indication of our team's lack of athletic skills.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 12:08 PM
It's interesting that the non-athletic Redick has a 33 inch vertical.

That's fantastic that he jumped really high next to a tape measure in a gym by himself. Have you ever seen him dunk a basketball?


This is not an argument to draft JJ, but perhaps another indication of our team's lack of athletic skills.

We are a pretty poor athletic team. From last year's squad only Jermaine and, maybe, Freddie are near elite-athlete status. Jax and Granger are both above average. I'd call Jamal, Harrison, Gill and Peja average. And AJ, Foster, Austin, Scot, Sarunas are all below average to terrible athletes.

Slick Pinkham
06-19-2006, 12:14 PM
I agree that tape measures and stopwatches are not particularly relevant to evaluating baketball players.

I just brought it up because most people are saying with regard to Redick "ignore the game tapes, ignore the 40 point games against UNC, Maryland, and others, and focus on the fact that he seems unathletic"

If his back is OK, he might be a good pick. Realistically, getting a non-starting but in-the-rotation player is a GOOD PICK at #17.

But I don't want him at #17 if he has a bad back.

Stryder
06-19-2006, 12:31 PM
I'm glad to know that I'm stronger than these guys.

Slick Pinkham
06-19-2006, 10:17 PM
When Redick was tested on his vertical jump, somebody was up on a stepladder holding up a can of beer 3 feet over his outstretched arms.

;)

Robertmto
06-20-2006, 02:40 AM
Are you thinking Chicago will take Gray?

I think Saer Sene will go before Gray, and perhaps Armstrong will too. I'm not sure any of them will be picked before the Wiz at 18 -- maybe one of them, but I doubt it's Gray...

There's still some question as to whether Gray will keep his name in the draft, but I guess we'll find that out today or tomorrow. I noticed, for example, that NBADraft.net's latest mock draft from yesterday excludes Rudy Fernandez, so maybe he withdrew, too.

Yea I was thinking that. And just my luck, Gray pulled his name out. Now the only big man ahead of my two hopefuls is POB. I hope and pray Sene is there. If not Hilton will due, and i swear if Indiana takes the last of my hopefuls...:mad:

Slick Pinkham
06-26-2006, 10:25 AM
giving this a bump back to the front page so we can keep in mind what the tape measure and stopwatch guys think of these players, and why someone like Marcus Williams may start sliding.

naptownmenace
06-26-2006, 10:52 AM
When Redick was tested on his vertical jump, somebody was up on a stepladder holding up a can of beer 3 feet over his outstretched arms.

;)


Good one!

The Pacers could do much worse than JJ Reddick with the 17th pick. That'd be a good selection, IMO.

One guy not to sleep on is Taquan Dean from Louisville. I have a feeling this guy will be a sleeper. I was impressed with his scores in this test. He's quick and can score. Reminds me a lot of Sacramento's Kevin Martin.

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 06:21 PM
Shawne rated at 57 on this thing.

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 06:24 PM
Shawne rated at 57 on this thing.

57th best athlete in the draft...why am I not surprised?

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 06:25 PM
57th best athlete in the draft...why am I not surprised?

Because his bench score was N/A?

Or...? :confused:

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 06:28 PM
Because his bench score was N/A?

Or...? :confused:

Didn't even notice that..wow, if he couldn't even get one rep, thats pretty sad.

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 06:31 PM
I figured it meant he didn't do it at all?



Also, Lamarcus Aldridge ranked 68. I'm not too worried about a poor ranking in this.

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 06:38 PM
I figured it meant he didn't do it at all?



Also, Lamarcus Aldridge ranked 68. I'm not too worried about a poor ranking in this.

Lamarcus Aldridge isn't an "upside" guy..he's a proven guy. Everyone keeps saying that Williams will develop..umm...not if he's this **** poor of an athlete.

If he just didn't do the bench, thats another thing entirely..I'm assuming that his final rank was skewed by that...but his vertical isn't impressive either for a wingman.

rel
06-29-2006, 06:43 PM
I figured it meant he didn't do it at all?


thats how i saw it, i doubt he couldn't do any

if he did this drill, his score would have been a lot better

its odd how his Max vertical jump is less than his no step vert.



...man...where's james white, he woulda dominated

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 06:46 PM
What does developing as a player have to do with athleticism? :disturbed

It helps, but he can certainly do it without the eye-popping athleticism that many seem to think he has. He just has to work at it.




Didn't Granger test out with a 33 inch vert last year


thats how i saw it, i doubt he couldn't do any

if he did this drill, his score would have been a lot better

its odd how his Max vertical jump is less than his no step vert.



...man...where's james white, he woulda dominated

Yeah, that is weird. (about his vert)

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 06:57 PM
About his vert, he's definitely a two-foot jumper, not a glider, so its not extremely unusual, but still strange

As for his bench press, I found this:

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/06/14/in-other-news/

Hartford’s Kenny Adeleke and Gonzaga’s J.P. Batista tested as the strongest athletes in the camp. They both bench pressed a 185-pound bar 26 times. Three other players got the bar up 20 or more times: Duke’s Shelden Williams (25), Bowman (24) and Cincinnati’s Eric Hicks (20). Memphis’ Shawne Williams tested the worst with zero reps

Will Galen
06-29-2006, 06:57 PM
Also Shawne's no step virtical was higher than his step virtical. Yet they called his lower score him maxium.

Obviously he miss timed it. Eveyone jumps higher when they step into it. Or it's a miss print.

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 07:00 PM
Also Shawne's no step virtical was higher than his step virtical. Yet they called his lower score him maxium.

Obviously he miss timed it. Eveyone jumps higher when they step into it. Or it's a miss print.

Its not a misprint. "maximum" is a one-step leap. I've seen this before, not very common, but it does happen.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2006, 07:05 PM
So we drafted a guy whose vertical jump with a step is 2 inches less that JJ Redick, and is physically the weakest player in the draft, bar none.

I guess we don't have to worry about him getting time at PF any time soon.

This is definitely a "project" pick. The over/under on DNP-CDs should be set at about 65.

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 07:07 PM
Nice find, mrbball!

He does need to improve his upper body strength then. (Can sorta tell by looking at him)

The good thing is that it shouldn't be too hard to do, if he can't get it up even once. Probably means he hardly works out... I like what VA said a while ago, 'lock him in a weight room.' Heh


So we drafted a guy whose vertical jump with a step is 2 inches less that JJ Redick, and is physically the weakest player in the draft, bar none.

I guess we don't have to worry about him getting time at PF any time soon.

This is definitely a "project" pick. The over/under on DNP-CDs should be set at about 65.

You're putting too much stock into this.

vapacersfan
06-29-2006, 07:10 PM
Yes Soup, that was the first thing I thought/typed, but even I would have hoped he would be able to at least get one rep.

On the bright side, he only has room to improve.

Slick Pinkham
06-29-2006, 07:17 PM
I'm not a stopwatch and tape measure guy, but supposedly he lacks basketball skills right now and we are supposed to be hanging our hat on the fact that he is a great athlete who can learn to play.

I think we've been jobbed by all the "great athlete" talk.

Hiis athleticism scores are below average. He's just a guy.

Bender-lite.

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 07:21 PM
I don't think he is nearly as raw skill-wise as many are making him out to be.

I think he has skills and lacks experience at this point. That's the vibe I'm getting.

rel
06-29-2006, 08:05 PM
About his vert, he's definitely a two-foot jumper, not a glider, so its not extremely unusual, but still strange

As for his bench press, I found this:

http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2006/06/14/in-other-news/

Hartford’s Kenny Adeleke and Gonzaga’s J.P. Batista tested as the strongest athletes in the camp. They both bench pressed a 185-pound bar 26 times. Three other players got the bar up 20 or more times: Duke’s Shelden Williams (25), Bowman (24) and Cincinnati’s Eric Hicks (20). Memphis’ Shawne Williams tested the worst with zero reps

maybe he pretended not to be able to any (when he could really do like 50 w/ one arm) so he'd guarantee himself falling to indy where he supposedly wanted to go SO BADLY

;)

Unclebuck
06-29-2006, 10:34 PM
Willaims is not the player we think he is. After listening to the afternoon sports talk shows today. Word out of Memphis is he not that great of an athlete, but he's skilled and is a good guy who has leadership skills and a great work ethic.

So take what ESPN said during the draft and turn it all around

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 11:02 PM
Willaims is not the player we think he is. After listening to the afternoon sports talk shows today. Word out of Memphis is he not that great of an athlete, but he's skilled and is a good guy who has leadership skills and a great work ethic.

So take what ESPN said during the draft and turn it all around

He is absolutely not skilled. Anyone that saw more than 1-2 Memphis games this year can tell you that. He looked absolutely lost on the court at times. A deer in headlights.

Those guys talking on ESPN...Jay Bilas in particular, saw him play 10-15 times last year.

Stop trying to spin this into a good pick. Its not. It may miraculously become a good pick down the line, but the odds are extremely slim at this point. This is a guy with a low basketball IQ and very average athletic ability.

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 11:06 PM
He is absolutely not skilled. Anyone that saw more than 1-2 Memphis games this year can tell you that. He looked absolutely lost on the court at times. A deer in headlights.

Those guys talking on ESPN...Jay Bilas in particular, saw him play 10-15 times last year.

Stop trying to spin this into a good pick. Its not. It may miraculously become a good pick down the line, but the odds are extremely slim at this point. This is a guy with a low basketball IQ and very average athletic ability.

Or....

you could stop trying to spin this into a bad pick. :idea:

Truth is, we won't know either way for a long time now.

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Or....

you could stop trying to spin this into a bad pick. :idea:

Truth is, we won't know either way for a long time now.


Yeah, me and the rest of the world...we're all just spinning..definitely not going by what we've seen from the kid :rolleyes:

UB has never once seen him play. Not once. He'll admit that, yet he for some reason has a strong opinion on the kid.

Unclebuck
06-29-2006, 11:10 PM
He is absolutely not skilled. Anyone that saw more than 1-2 Memphis games this year can tell you that. He looked absolutely lost on the court at times. A deer in headlights.

Those guys talking on ESPN...Jay Bilas in particular, saw him play 10-15 times last year.

Stop trying to spin this into a good pick. Its not. It may miraculously become a good pick down the line, but the odds are extremely slim at this point. This is a guy with a low basketball IQ and very average athletic ability.


I'm not spinning anything, in fact I just posted that he's not that good of an athlete, and that has me a little concerned.

If I wanted to spin things I pick and choose only the good things I've heard about him.

I don't think I have strong opinions at all.

If someone wants to send me a tape of his 4 NCAA games I'd love to watch them.

Seriously is there a place you can buy such a thing

SoupIsGood
06-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Yeah, me and the rest of the world...we're all just spinning..definitely not going by what we've seen from the kid :rolleyes:

UB has never once seen him play. Not once. He'll admit that, yet he for some reason has a strong opinion on the kid.

LOL

And the rest of the world?

:lol:

Mordecaii
06-29-2006, 11:15 PM
You know Mr. Basketball, I have to completely agree... after all, why would we want a kid who got tournament MVP for his conference in his freshman year??

Chauncey
06-29-2006, 11:50 PM
Like someone who voted for Bush, I'm choosing to bury my head in the sand

So be it.

Mordecaii
06-30-2006, 12:08 AM
ahaha, that's almost funny! :uhoh:

Anthem
06-30-2006, 01:58 AM
I don't get it. I have a hard time believing the guy couldn't do any reps at all if JJ did six.

RWB
06-30-2006, 09:06 AM
Also Shawne's no step virtical was higher than his step virtical. Yet they called his lower score him maxium.

Obviously he miss timed it. Eveyone jumps higher when they step into it. Or it's a miss print.

Not really and it's better his no step is higher according to some coaches for defensive purposes. Why is this??? Because reaction time is shorter for someone jumping straight up rather than having to take an additional step. I believe Dale Davis tested out this way also.

Chauncey
06-30-2006, 03:24 PM
Not really and it's better his no step is higher according to some coaches for defensive purposes. Why is this??? Because reaction time is shorter for someone jumping straight up rather than having to take an additional step. I believe Dale Davis tested out this way also.

Absolutely true. Compare him to Jordan Farmar, for instance. Somehow, someway, Farmar came in at 42" on his vertical. You never see that in the uncontrolled environment during a game. For Williams, his jumping is much more explosive than Farmars and that should help him, especially with shotblocking and rebounding.