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able
06-15-2006, 08:13 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/SPORTS04/606150424

What went wrong?


All-Star forward Jermaine O'Neal sat down Wednesday and discussed his past, present and future with the Indiana Pacers:


By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com


Question: How are you handling the rumors about possibly being traded to Toronto?

"The only thing I can say to the Pacer fans in the state of Indiana is that I do apologize. I do apologize to the city for what this team went through." Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal - Charlie Nye / The Star

Answer: It doesn't bother me at all. The bottom line is, when you don't win and you struggle, your name is going to come up. That's just the way it is. The whole Toronto thing has no truth behind it whatsoever.

Q: How tough has it been watching the playoffs?

A: It sucks. Watching the playoffs is probably the most frustrating part about everything. Why in the hell am I not here? Why are we not in the playoffs, the Finals? If you're not playing for a championship it really doesn't matter after that.

Q: Several players said there were chemistry problems with the team. How much truth is behind that?

A: As the guy who is the head of the team, you don't want to put it out during the season, but we had major issues last year that would totally hinder any team from doing anything good. A lot of that started mainly during the Ron (Artest) situation. Players couldn't understand why we were going through this. Why it was taking so long and people were worried about being traded and stuff like that. It became a very difficult time. Every guy was put in a tough situation last year. Larry (Bird) and Donnie (Walsh) were in one. Rick (Carlisle) was definitely put in a tough situation. It's almost like we came to play, but we had no life behind our team.

Q: Whose fault was it?

A: I feel like I could have done a better job leading this team. I could have done a better job on the court. Larry and Donnie could have done a better job knowing what's going on with the team. The coaching staff could have done a better job disciplining the team. You have to blame the players for not approaching the game the right way and being able to play together for 48 minutes even if we don't like each other.

Q: Did guys not like each other? Why was the chemistry bad?

A: I don't think it was so bad where I had to go to every individual player and ask if you like this player or do you have a problem with this guy. It wasn't like that. Mentally we were just worn. I don't know how many times we walked into the locker room and it was like walking into a mortuary. Nobody had any energy; it always seemed like it was one thing after another. This is an apology to the city. Sometimes I feel like the city needs to know more about what's going on, but it's not in the best interest of this team and this organization that everything is told. This team, we never gave up, but it was extremely tough to be together as a team.

Q: How tough is that on you as the face of the franchise?

A: This was supposed to be our year. We had the pieces in place and all of sudden we're fighting to stay .500. I'm not going to sit here and lie; last year was a terrible situation all the way around for our team. Considering we made the playoffs was remarkable. I hate being in a situation where you're losing because I am the face of this team. The blame is going to come down on me. Whether it's right or wrong, it is what it is. I can accept it. One thing I can say is, I wore down mentally. That's not a secret amongst my teammates, the coaching staff, Larry Bird. I spoke to all of them (about) that at some point last year. I didn't really enjoy basketball last year. I know this team is going to go as far as I can take them. I really do.

Q: How confident are you that Walsh and Bird can put the pieces around you to compete for a championship?

A: Very confident. I had a great meeting with Donnie recently. We talked about a lot of things, like his plan to improve the team. That's what every great team president and CEO does -- give their team a chance to win a championship. I believe those guys are going to roll up their sleeves and they are going to put a team out there that the city will get excited about this summer. I've given a challenge to the organization, and the organization has given one to me. It's me getting back to that level of being quick, explosive and having fun on the court. I was given that from them. I'm not going to let him down or my family or this city. The last two years have been all disappointing. I'm tired of everything.

Q: What challenge did you give the organization?

A: Give me the best opportunity to win a championship.

Q: What's your relationship like with Bird?

A: We're fine now. I know Larry has full confidence in me as a player and I have full confidence in him as a president. We're not that far away. We're only one or two pieces away from being a contender.

Q: Do you see yourself in a Pacers uniform for the rest of your contract?

A: I told Donnie after this year if things don't work out, then I don't feel the need to have this organization, this city, the owners pay my salary. I feel something has to be changed in our relationship. Next year will be the fifth year on my deal and those numbers get a lot higher. I always want this organization, this city to be put in the position where they can excel. . . . I don't make guarantees, but I can guarantee when I walk in here next year, my body physically, my game physically, my mind mentally will be at an all-time high. I can guarantee you that.

Call star reporter Mike Wells at (317) 444-6053.

Copyright 2006 IndyStar.com. All rights reserved

D-BONE
06-15-2006, 08:15 AM
More guarantees issued via the press. Hope JO can comply with this one.

able
06-15-2006, 08:20 AM
This article/interview shows a few things:

We have a great franchise player, no matter what you say, I prefer him being in the papers with an interview in which he vows to de more then his best next season and in the off-season then I care reading abuot DUI's and other funky stuff from some of the "alleged" top players.

I said during the Ron trade episode that I worried what the long wait and trade rumours would do to the team, in this interview it becomes clear that all that has taken even more out of the team then I feared, and no, once you know it's over you can not just switch back and perform 100+% the damage is done, relationships are damaged and the will to win has taken second partiture.

Larry needs to do some "communiation 101" had he done it earlier it might have prevented a lot of "problems".

I for one am proud to have this man(JO) represent my franchise and I have all the faith in the world he will be delivering a MVP worthy season.
Can he do it alone, no way, no one can, but with the right support for the first time since his signing it all might be a lot better then it looks.

bulletproof
06-15-2006, 08:23 AM
I said during the Ron trade episode that I worried what the long wait and trade rumours would do to the team, in this interview it becomes clear that all that has taken even more out of the team then I feared, and no, once you know it's over you can not jus switch back and perform 100+% the damage is done, relationships are damaged and the will to win has taken second partiture.

You really think it was the length of time it took to trade Ron that wore this team out? What wore this team out began on 11/19/04.

Will Galen
06-15-2006, 08:36 AM
You really think it was the length of time it took to trade Ron that wore this team out? What wore this team out began on 11/19/04.

Two years of mental turmoil will wear on you.

MSA2CF
06-15-2006, 08:37 AM
Well, I must say that I have a newfound respect for Jermaine. I have never liked him as a player, but these comments have me rethinking my stance...I am encouraged. :)

J_2_Da_IzzO
06-15-2006, 08:40 AM
So if Donnie set Jermaine a goal to get back to his more athletic and dynamic physiche and Jermaine set them the goal to build a team around him that can win a chmpionship whos been setting Rick Carlisle the goal to change his tactics?

Will Galen
06-15-2006, 08:46 AM
So if Donnie set Jermaine a goal to get back to his more athletic and dynamic physiche and Jermaine set them the goal to build a team around him that can win a chmpionship whos been setting Rick Carlisle the goal to change his tactics?


Larry Bird.

Unclebuck
06-15-2006, 08:47 AM
We have a great franchise player, no matter what you say, I prefer him being in the papers with an interview in which he vows to de more then his best next season and in the off-season then I care reading abuot DUI's and other funky stuff from some of the "alleged" top players.

I said during the Ron trade episode that I worried what the long wait and trade rumours would do to the team, in this interview it becomes clear that all that has taken even more out of the team then I feared, and no, once you know it's over you can not just switch back and perform 100+% the damage is done, relationships are damaged and the will to win has taken second partiture.

I for one am proud to have this man(JO) represent my franchise and I have all the faith in the world he will be delivering a MVP worthy season.



As far as how long it took to trade Artest. If they could have gotten Peja the day after Ron announced he wanted to be traded, they would have. The Kings took their time and they didn't decide to make the trade until the trade was made. A trade would have been made about 4 weeks earlier but Maggette's injury scared the Pacers off, so how can you blame then there.

As I said last season, I don't care how long it takes or if it ruins the whole season, the Pacers need to take as much time as needed to get the best trade possible.


able, yes it is nice that JO says all the right things and certainly it is nice that JO isn't getting in trouble with the law every other week, but the most important thing is how well he plays and the impact he has on the team winning and losing

able
06-15-2006, 09:05 AM
UB, I never said that they should have traded faster, other or anything like that, I only said, and maintain, that the wait took a strain on the rest of the team, a team that was alraedy in shambles to begin with, so damage done was more severe then in other cases.

yes JO needs to do it on the floor, but as far as ready willing and able goes I think he can do it.

Will Galen
06-15-2006, 09:08 AM
able, yes it is nice that JO says all the right things and certainly it is nice that JO isn't getting in trouble with the law every other week, but the most important thing is how well he plays and the impact he has on the team winning and losing

How well he plays and the impact he has on the team winning and losing? You talking about Ron Artest?

Ron shows that you need more from a player than just playing well and having an impact on wins and loses. You also need a good citizen. I really liked Ron, but I'll take JO.

Slick Pinkham
06-15-2006, 09:19 AM
More guarantees issued via the press. Hope JO can comply with this one.

If he doesn't, then he pretty much set the stage for demanding to be traded.

If he is going to demand a trade if (and when) we don't win a title next year, then I guess we are be better off trading him mid-season this year to avoid suffering the "price drop" that comes with having no leverage in trading a player who has demanded a trade.

BillS
06-15-2006, 10:20 AM
We're not that far away. We're only one or two pieces away from being a contender.

JO's been drinking the Kool-Aid.

Bball
06-15-2006, 10:26 AM
If he has to keep telling people he's the leader then he's not the leader, he's a pretender.

There are some things I like in the interview but overall I get the sense JO is nowhere near that 'lightbulb game' that I am waiting on.

I don't know how much negotiating or what kind of a 'challenge' in reality that he gave the front office but I suspect this isn't a front office a player should be challenging. If he did challenge the front office as he says then IMHO he raised his chances of being traded.

BTW... Will,
If Bird is in charge of all the player moves why did JO even bother meeting with Donnie? :devil:

-Bball

ChicagoJ
06-15-2006, 10:29 AM
You really think it was the length of time it took to trade Ron that wore this team out? What wore this team out began on 11/19/04.

What wore this team out began on February 19, 2002.

Four years of mental turmoil will wear on you.

Gamble
06-15-2006, 10:45 AM
The only thing remaining is to wait and see. Since we all know
trading him offers us little in return we have to play this hand out.

The cards are defiantly stacked against JO delivering but what better
choice do we have?

JayRedd
06-15-2006, 10:49 AM
I don't make guarantees, but I can guarantee when I walk in here next year, my body physically, my game physically, my mind mentally will be at an all-time high. I can guarantee you that.


Any body else find this hilarious?

Good words from JO though. It's nice to know that he realizes that his contract will start to be considered an albatross if he doesn't step it up. 20 and 10 for 80 games next year will be a start.

Slick Pinkham
06-15-2006, 11:06 AM
I told Donnie after this year if things don't work out, then I don't feel the need to have this organization, this city, the owners pay my salary. I feel something has to be changed in our relationship. Next year will be the fifth year on my deal and those numbers get a lot higher. I always want this organization, this city to be put in the position where they can excel.

It seems like I'm the only one taking the above statement to mean that

JO is demanding to be traded if the Pacers don't win a title NEXT YEAR.

If TPTB think that winning next year is unlikely, then they should trade JO midseason if he is healthy, before his demand lowers his market value.

ChicagoJ
06-15-2006, 11:07 AM
20 and 10 for 80 games will just get him back to where he was.

I think he's made improvements to his game over the past two seasons, but we haven't seen them consistently because of his injuries, the revolving door lineup, and Rick's overbearing coaching style.

I'd like to see JO at 22 and 14, but that means he's going to have to block out more or play with someone else who will block out more.

(Note the difference between Foster's and Harrison's contribution to rebounds... Foster chases down a bunch of offensive rebounds. Harrison blocks out and takes out two or three opponents making it real easy for his teammates to get rebounds.

What we've had is two guys (JO and Foster) that aren't great at blocking out trying to chase down rebounds.

I'd rather have Harrison blocking out and let JO chase down rebounds than ***** at JO for not blocking out. Team rebounding is the key.)

bulldog
06-15-2006, 11:23 AM
If he has to keep telling people he's the leader then he's not the leader, he's a pretender.

There are some things I like in the interview but overall I get the sense JO is nowhere near that 'lightbulb game' that I am waiting on.


Yep.

Instead of this interview, how about a video of JO working on 15 footers and boxing out? A lot of talk, haven't seen the production.

JO's a very good player; but we will not win a championship with him as our only superstar. Unless we find a way to get another player, JO will be on his way out this summer or next.

indygeezer
06-15-2006, 11:40 AM
20 and 10 for 80 games will just get him back to where he was.

I think he's made improvements to his game over the past two seasons, but we haven't seen them consistently because of his injuries, the revolving door lineup, and Rick's overbearing coaching style.

I'd like to see JO at 22 and 14, but that means he's going to have to block out more or play with someone else who will block out more.

(Note the difference between Foster's and Harrison's contribution to rebounds... Foster chases down a bunch of offensive rebounds. Harrison blocks out and takes out two or three opponents making it real easy for his teammates to get rebounds.

What we've had is two guys (JO and Foster) that aren't great at blocking out trying to chase down rebounds.

I'd rather have Harrison blocking out and let JO chase down rebounds than ***** at JO for not blocking out. Team rebounding is the key.)


:bowdown: :bowdown:

Unclebuck
06-15-2006, 11:53 AM
(Note the difference between Foster's and Harrison's contribution to rebounds... Foster chases down a bunch of offensive rebounds. Harrison blocks out and takes out two or three opponents making it real easy for his teammates to get rebounds.

What we've had is two guys (JO and Foster) that aren't great at blocking out trying to chase down rebounds.




I would love to know how the team rebounded when DH was on the floor vs when Foster was on the floor.

I disagree with you by the way that Foster doesn't block out. Do we watch the same games.

Bball
06-15-2006, 11:56 AM
How about JO be a power forward who puts some power into his game?
:devil:

-Bball

TheSauceMaster
06-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Same old J.O lip service we hear each yr. I wish for once he would stop talking about doing it and actually do it. :censored: Actions speak louder than words J.O :rolleyes:

beast23
06-15-2006, 12:11 PM
...(Note the difference between Foster's and Harrison's contribution to rebounds... Foster chases down a bunch of offensive rebounds. Harrison blocks out and takes out two or three opponents making it real easy for his teammates to get rebounds.

What we've had is two guys (JO and Foster) that aren't great at blocking out trying to chase down rebounds.

I'd rather have Harrison blocking out and let JO chase down rebounds than ***** at JO for not blocking out. Team rebounding is the key.)Granted, Foster is very adept at chasing down rebounds. But I don't think you give him nearly enough credit for his overall rebounding fundamentals.

The Pacers have 3 players who block out on a regular basis. That's Harrison, Croshere AND FOSTER.

I totally agree with you that TEAM rebounding is the key. But there is a tried and true method that has been proven time and time again to work. And that is "Everybody blocks out for each other." No one should be exempt from that role... not your best offensive rebounder (Foster), nor your franchise player (O'Neal).

I really believe that one of the most important improvements that the Pacers can make next season is to improve their defensive rebounding percentage. To do so, that means that all of our big men must be willing to box out. And it also means that our perimeter players must not let their men sneak inside them to pick up cheap rebounds.

Regarding JO's interview, overall I thought the interview was great. Jermaine said a lot of things that all of us want to hear. But one statement bothered me a little. "I know this team is going to go as far as I can take them."

I think that assumes too much pressure. And I don't know if it really recognizes that the team's offense needs to take on more the appearance that it had when JO was out of the lineup last season. One for all and all for one; JO no longer has to be the focus of the offense. Even without throwing the ball into the post every trip down the floor, I would still expect JO to find the way to get his 22/14. That's what good big men do... they find their way to the ball, whether the ball is served up to them or not.

Since86
06-15-2006, 12:17 PM
I very rarely see Foster boxing out. He puts a hand on his man, to locate him, but once he breaks contact VERY quickly.

He allows his man to also chase down the rebound, instead of holding him off away from it.

That's why Dan Gadzuric causes so many problems for him. He can match Foster's quickness, and beat him to the ball once contact is broken.

ChicagoJ
06-15-2006, 12:48 PM
I agree with '86' - Foster's game is all about breaking contact and hustling down the loose balls. Foster is the polar opposite of DD - whom you could count on to get the tough rebounds in traffic. Foster chases down everything else.

There is a growing school of thought that boxing-out is overrated and you should just have all five guys (or if Rick is coaching, both guys) swarm towards the ball. I'm not sure if I agree with that or not.


Ask The Coach! -Question #115

Question #115- I need some help on rebounding. My team cannot rebound!

Coach Dave Moody

We are not as aggressive on the boards and going for loose balls as we need to be. Could you recommend some drills to help me in these areas?

Coach Greg Soule

Coaches,
Rebounding for me is a combination of technique, experience, and being active. If you don't spend time teaching box out technique and ball pursuit you can't expect it to appear by magic during a game. Many coaches teach technique but too often fail to give their teams practice opportunities in reading where a ball comes off the rim. It amazes me how many young players cannot read where a ball is coming off the rim. As a very young player this is one of the things I was taught and to this day have contributed to my ability to read a ball even with limited natural athletic ability. Finally pursuit is critical to rebounding. Many players play flat-footed a great percentage of time on the court. This definitely affects a players preparedness. If there was a statistic of "percentage of time on toes" I would be able to show you players who were better rebounders, defenders and quicker to the ball. Teach that skill by observing players who fail to stay on their toes during drills and in the game.

With that said, here are a few additional ideas that might assist you in getting your team to rebound better and play more aggressively. Use "rebound radar". This sounds pretty stupid, but I worked with a coach who put white tape on the forehead of each player and told them it was their rebound radar. It didn't make them jump better but it did bring constant attention to an aspect of the game to which they were oblivious. It worked, and the team had fun making fun of a weakness that suddenly became a driving goal for the team.

Weight rebounding in your scrimmages and practices. Make offensive or defensive rebounds worth more points than baskets and play your scrimmages that way. The more you weight a rebound the more significant it is for the team to win a game.

Teach your players to pursue the ball once it has hit the rim even if they have sealed their defender, or in the case of no one to block out. The ball hitting the rim is their release point, unless they are directly under the basket. They must then get a body or leg on their more athletic opponent to take away their jumping legs.

Use goal boards to identify to your team how they are doing game by game in offensive and defensive boards. I use to put my teams goal boards out where the public could see them as well as the team. It is amazing how lack of a "gold star" on a goal board can contribute to a team focusing on rebounding. Do not hesitate to make your rebounding goals even more explicit, such as adding a goal for "number of times going to the boards" (take this from the game films).

Finally, make all of your defensive and shooting drills also rebounding drills. If the ball is shot at the basket it must be a rebounding drill teaching box out and pursuit.

These are some of my thoughts to assist you.

Thanks for Asking the Coach.

http://www.bbhighway.com/Talk/Coaching_Box/Ask_Coach/questions/atc_q115.htm



How about JO be a power forward who puts some power into his game?
:devil:

-Bball

But he's bulked up too much, been injury prone, and lost his explosiveness.

Putnam
06-15-2006, 12:49 PM
20 and 10 for 80 games will just get him back to where he was. I'd like to see JO at 22 and 14.




And 5 or 6 assists per game, too.



.

waxman
06-15-2006, 12:51 PM
Its gotta be tough to lead a bunch individualistic, boneheaded, jump into the stands and beat on the fans type of players we've had here the last couple years. Granted the franchise player normally takes the brunt... but knowing that as fans, we should be able to inject some reality in our opinions.

JO's done pretty much everything this organization has asked of him.... gain weight....lose weight.... play center..... embrace Carlisle as his head coach despite the fact he was told Isaiah Thomas wouldn't be fired, so he would re-sign. Those are signs of leadership.

The last 2 years have SUCKED.... we should've been contenders. Thank you Ron....thanks alot. JO was left to carry this team the last two seasons after Ron bailed on us... no wonder his body and mind broke down...especially considering the grinding style we play, it takes mental toughness. But what this team has gone through the last two years is above and beyond mental toughness... its been insanity....thanks Ron.

JO is still an elite big man... and he's certainly not stupid.... if any lights needed clicking on.... they were Tinsley/Jackson/Artest the ****ing selfish morons. JO never said he could or wanted to do it himself. Did MJ, Shaq, Bird, Magic, Duncan, Russell, Wilt, do it by themselves.... uh... NO. So if these guys needed help.... JO certainly is gonna need A LOT.

indytoad
06-15-2006, 12:55 PM
And 5 or 6 assists per game, too.



.

It's almost as if you want him to be a max-contract type of player.

IndyToad
Sangria sunrise

Jose Slaughter
06-15-2006, 12:59 PM
It seems like I'm the only one taking the above statement to mean that

JO is demanding to be traded if the Pacers don't win a title NEXT YEAR.

If TPTB think that winning next year is unlikely, then they should trade JO midseason if he is healthy, before his demand lowers his market value.

Tom

I disagree. I think the line below, lifted from O'Neal's comments, is key.

I told Donnie..... I feel something has to be changed in our relationship.

Well, Walsh is retiring at the end of next season. Thats a change in their relationship right there!

Seriously, I don't think JO believes they need to win a title, just be a contender. If the organization makes changes & the team improves, why would O'Neal want to leave?

Bball
06-15-2006, 12:59 PM
It's almost as if you want him to be a max-contract type of player.

IndyToad
Sangria sunrise

That would be asking for too much...

-Bball

Roy Munson
06-15-2006, 01:04 PM
As always, JO talks a better game than he plays.

BigDawg44
06-15-2006, 01:09 PM
in regards to jo's comments on the city and team NOT paying his contract...i dont think he is demanding a trade, at all. i think he is purely saying that if this team doesnt show significant improvement then he has not done his part to earn his salary, which will go up a fair amount. i got the idea that he was suggesting he would take a pay cut so the team could go out and find the missing link through free agency.

FrenchConnection
06-15-2006, 01:21 PM
in regards to jo's comments on the city and team NOT paying his contract...i dont think he is demanding a trade, at all. i think he is purely saying that if this team doesnt show significant improvement then he has not done his part to earn his salary, which will go up a fair amount. i got the idea that he was suggesting he would take a pay cut so the team could go out and find the missing link through free agency.

You cannot renegoiate or "restructure" contracts in the NBA, so we are stuck with his salary as it is.

D-BONE
06-15-2006, 01:23 PM
On one hand he says he's the leader and the team will only go as far as he will take them. Thus he promises to be in great shape and at the top if his game next year.

Then he turns around and says if he doesn't succeed in living up to his own guarantees he should be shipped out after next season. I find this rather contradictory.

It's like saying I'll pledge to be prepared, have a great year, and lead us to title contention. However, in case I fail in any of that, IMO, I need to be traded out of here. Read: I need an escape hatch for my own vows.

Gets back to the thing that always bugs me about JO that several have pointed out. Plenty of guarantees and commitments in the press and seeming enjoyment in that relationship. Then followed by little actually following through. Words vs. actions.

Admittedly, the last season and a half would have been a challenge to really put those words into action for obvious reasons. But just be quiet and do it and stop all the soap opera, me-me-me stuff with the press, such as this team will only go as far as I can take it. Give me a break already!

FrenchConnection
06-15-2006, 01:27 PM
On one hand he says he's the leader and the team will only go as far as he will take them. Thus he promises to be in great shape and at the top if his game next year.

Then he turns around and says if he doesn't succeed in living up to his own guarantees he should be shipped out after next season. I find this rather contradictory.

It's like saying I'll pledge to be prepared, have a great year, and lead us to title contention. However, in case I fail in any of that, IMO, I need to be traded out of here. Read: I need an escape hatch for my own vows.

Gets back to the thing that always bugs me about JO that several have pointed out. Plenty of guarantees and commitments in the press and seeming enjoyment in that relationship. Then followed by little actually following through. Words vs. actions.

Admittedly, the last season and a half would have been a challenge to really put those words into action for obvious reasons. But just be quiet and do it and stop all the soap opera, me-me-me stuff with the press, such as this team will only go as far as I can take it. Give me a break already!

If you are the leader of the team with the max contract and the team fails, then it is your fault. That is the responsibility that comes with the big contract. That is what you get paid for.

BigDawg44
06-15-2006, 01:28 PM
You cannot renegoiate or "restructure" contracts in the NBA, so we are stuck with his salary as it is.


well, fine then mr. know-it-all..............haha

vapacersfan
06-15-2006, 01:38 PM
20 and 10 for 80 games will just get him back to where he was.

I think he's made improvements to his game over the past two seasons, but we haven't seen them consistently because of his injuries, the revolving door lineup, and Rick's overbearing coaching style.

I'd like to see JO at 22 and 14, but that means he's going to have to block out more or play with someone else who will block out more.

(Note the difference between Foster's and Harrison's contribution to rebounds... Foster chases down a bunch of offensive rebounds. Harrison blocks out and takes out two or three opponents making it real easy for his teammates to get rebounds.

What we've had is two guys (JO and Foster) that aren't great at blocking out trying to chase down rebounds.

I'd rather have Harrison blocking out and let JO chase down rebounds than ***** at JO for not blocking out. Team rebounding is the key.)

QFT

Its only a matter of time before people jump on you for pointing out that JO doesnt box out...

Arcadian
06-15-2006, 01:40 PM
I love how anything JO is bound to bring out the snide remarks. It's what makes this forum the best.

As far as what JO said I think he puts too much presure on himself. I want to see him play his best but one person does not win a championship. I guess what I disagree with JO the most on is how far away this team is--unless those one or two guys they need to bring in are Wade and Lebron.

vapacersfan
06-15-2006, 01:43 PM
I love how anything JO is bound to bring out the snide remarks. It's what makes this forum the best.

As far as what JO said I think he puts too much presure on himself. I want to see him play his best but one person does not win a championship. I guess what I disagree with JO the most on is how far away this team is--unless those one or two guys they need to bring in are Wade and Lebron.

Thats not a JO thing, thats a any player thing.

You are going to catch flak if all you do is "talk and talk" but never "walk the walk"

JO was on the right path after the MVP caliber season, but has never returned to that form. Hopefully that changes after this season.

D-BONE
06-15-2006, 01:55 PM
If you are the leader of the team with the max contract and the team fails, then it is your fault. That is the responsibility that comes with the big contract. That is what you get paid for.

Yes to a degree. I'd just like to hear JO talk more in terms of the team achieving certain goals instead of so often working his way back to himself as the focus.

Sometimes individuals are criticized from hiding their own faults in the we pronoun. I'll give JO credit for not doing that. However, from the standpoint of being a team oriented guy, whether a leader or not, I'd like to hear him using we a lot more. He has a role within the the team structure.

Ultimately, I have to agree with Bball. If he truly had successfully assumed the leadership, franchise-player role on the team, he would not or should not have to so frequently refer to himself in that very capacity. It will take signficant contributions from other players besides him for the team to go as far as it can go.

JO is a good player who can help the team succeed with an adjustment in his focus. Work on the game and play the game and let the chips fall where they may. Things are more likely to work out naturally as opposed to him being so conscious of his image, leadership role, etc., etc.

PacerMan
06-15-2006, 01:57 PM
JO's been drinking the Kool-Aid.


He's correct. With some big IF's.

Hicks
06-15-2006, 02:55 PM
even if we don't like each other

If that doesn't scream "trade at least a few guys", I don't know what does. Not that JO is saying that, but that as a GM I would be thinking about it. You need chemistry to win.

Peck
06-15-2006, 03:05 PM
Ok, my age is starting to kick in here & I am not up to the net lingo.

I've seen QFT on a couple of places here at the digest & I have no idea what it means.

Somebody help an old man out.:blush:

Lord Helmet
06-15-2006, 03:07 PM
Ok, my age is starting to kick in here & I am not up to the net lingo.

I've seen QFT on a couple of places here at the digest & I have no idea what it means.

Somebody help an old man out.:blush:
Quoted For Truth.

Young
06-15-2006, 03:09 PM
Ok, my age is starting to kick in here & I am not up to the net lingo.

I've seen QFT on a couple of places here at the digest & I have no idea what it means.

Somebody help an old man out.:blush:

Don't feel bad Peck, i'm 17 and I wasn't for sure what it meant.

vapacersfan
06-15-2006, 03:11 PM
Ok, my age is starting to kick in here & I am not up to the net lingo.

I've seen QFT on a couple of places here at the digest & I have no idea what it means.

Somebody help an old man out.:blush:

I saw QTF and I was not sure if that was a typo or if I just am out of the loop as well.

But QFT is quoted for truth.

Bball
06-15-2006, 03:32 PM
Ok, my age is starting to kick in here & I am not up to the net lingo.

I've seen QFT on a couple of places here at the digest & I have no idea what it means.

Somebody help an old man out.:blush:

I thought it was a little more 'raw' than what people here are saying but either way it means the same thing I guess. "Quite F'n true".

-Bball

indygeezer
06-15-2006, 03:49 PM
The thing is, I remember very similar words being uttered by JO before.

SOmething about..If I can't lead this team to the finals then maybe they should think about replacing me.....words to that effect anyway.

I want to see JO succeed just because I wanna see the P's succeed.

I conflicted on JO as a player tho. I dislike the slowdown game when he is in there but is it JO or is it management? I dislike his inablity to dominate the boards but is it JO or the spacing as dictated by mgmnt? I dislike all of his injuries but is he injury prone or is it due to mgmnt not bringing in a BIG to take some of the heat off JO?

SO it becomes.....Is it JO or is it the Management?

vapacersfan
06-15-2006, 03:52 PM
The thing is, I remember very similar words being uttered by JO before.

SOmething about..If I can't lead this team to the finals then maybe they should think about replacing me.....words to that effect anyway.

I want to see JO succeed just because I wanna see the P's succeed.

I conflicted on JO as a player tho. I dislike the slowdown game when he is in there but is it JO or is it management? I dislike his inablity to dominate the boards but is it JO or the spacing as dictated by mgmnt? I dislike all of his injuries but is he injury prone or is it due to mgmnt not bringing in a BIG to take some of the heat off JO?

SO it becomes.....Is it JO or is it the Management?

Sure managment deserves some of the blame, as does JO, but I think his biggest problem has been his coach and the style he likes to play. That and to steal Bball thunder, he is mis-used at times......

McKeyFan
06-15-2006, 04:04 PM
If he has to keep telling people he's the leader then he's not the leader, he's a pretender.

Yeah, you get the sense that his handlers are coaching him on what to say. He keeps mouthing the various phrases you're supposed to say, but it doesn't feel genuine.

Not that JO's a fraud, just that he wouldn't say these things on his own, because he's not a true leader. He says them because others tell him to. But its kinda disjointed and a bit contradictory.

larry
06-15-2006, 04:19 PM
JO is a good guy. Is he good enough to redo his contract? Anyway, as has been said here before, I like the idea of JO slimming down.

Gamble
06-15-2006, 04:20 PM
I put the blame on the management and the coach. Lets face it they get paid
to run the show and players are getting paid to play. IF in fact they
don't show up for the game is why we have a coach and the strong
arm of Donnie to back him up.

Whats wrong is that the management has no clue of when to step in at
times and the coach doesn't know how to motivate the players
to buy into his system.

Mismangement, Poor coaching, Bad players with large contracts.
The finger of blame points more up than down in the Pacers organization.

I mean do the players tell the management that they need to meet
together so they can get on the same page. Is that the players
responsibility or the management.

Right now we have a coach with no long term security, no motivation
besides another job to coach well and players who find themselves with
no cohesion to build off of.

IF you ask me the glue to keep this rickety ship together is provided
by Donnie and Larry. Its just a good thing you didn't ask me.

Tim
06-15-2006, 08:12 PM
It seems like I'm the only one taking the above statement to mean that

JO is demanding to be traded if the Pacers don't win a title NEXT YEAR.

If TPTB think that winning next year is unlikely, then they should trade JO midseason if he is healthy, before his demand lowers his market value.


What I see is JO trying to be accountable to the city and fans.

How many players are willing to say if I don't put up then put me out???

And remember, when he makes that statement its and open ended trade. He could end up anywhere with no chance at a ring.

Robertmto
06-16-2006, 02:32 AM
JO is a good guy. Is he good enough to redo his contract? Anyway, as has been said here before, I like the idea of JO slimming down.

he needs to shed weight but beef up.

able
06-16-2006, 05:10 AM
I am not sure on whether to laugh, get angry or just quit reading all together, but this thread went ways that the grassy knoll theorist could only have dreamt when they started theirs.

JO, the same player rewarded by the press corps last year for being the best and friendliest interview in the league, the same one known for speaking his peace on all topics, including the dicey ones, now all of a sudden is the franchise's mouthpice, MM is "gone" so JO took over, strangely enough the interview was conducted by mr. "dig it out" Wells so I fail to see how those two can be combined, or has Mike had a revision of his contract and is he no longer allowed to be critical? What better time to be critical then to ask the questions you want answered?

Yes JO spoke similar words last year, but let's grab some facts before we go off the rails on more shooters behind the knoll.

No 2 seasons ago, JO was playing sparkling ball, in great shape, coming of a MVP worthy season, (#3 in voting) the P's were dominating the league early on and were clobbering the Pistons when something snapped, a forced hoiliday, wrecked team and severly damaged shoulder later the season was over in the semi's of the ECF.

The year before JO played with a brace on his knee in the finals of the ECF, for those who missed it, I am sure I have a clip of JO's knee being over-extended just prior to that.
In 05 he got his arm damned nearly ripped out, took the FT's and played a lot sooner then expected.
The last year, he put everything aside to support two players on the verge of being shipped out, and asked with them to keep the team together, that is untill that famous day that one of them opted out.

In the meantime, like one posted mentioned, JO has done everything asked of him, from embracing a coach that replaced "his" coach, to "beefing up", playing C, and only God knows what more, without complaint.
This year also saw him play far to quickly again after an injury, causing a much more severe injury, and yet you blame him for being injury prone, well a twisted or sprained ankle is not exactly a sign of being injury prone, playintg to early and ripping your groin is neither, it is called bad management, just like the mis-diagnosed Tinsley injury caused a hell of a lot more problems then we should have had, yet both players, who are both seen to play with lots of pain, are labelled "injury prone".

I am all for commenting on what you don't like about your team, but the way people in this thread talk about the best player on this team, and one of the best ever to walk the floor for the Pacers, pound for pound, talent for talent, is almost sad in my eye, either jealousy comes out, or even worse feelings, but they have little or nothing to do with basketball or skills, JO is still one of the best in this league and most, if not all, franchises would pay a very high price to obtain that player.

I for one am proud JO is well spoken with his heart in the right place and do not think that he is not the leader of this team, I think this team has other flaws, that are hurting us, not the quality of JO and the size of his contract, compare $ for $ and # for # his contract and those of Croshere and Bender and then tell me again who is overpaid.
Look at Brad Miller and compare and tell me who is overpaid?
Look at J Kidd and tell me who is overpaid.

JO has every year since he arrived here improved over the summer, the last two years things happened that made the year a nightmare even before it really started, no preparation can take care of that.
JO has every year done what was asked, last year he went through an adepted for of Pilates to be able to exercise whilst his arm did not allow him to practise.

I am happy he's a Pacer and I hope sincerely that they will finally change this "Reggie-build" team to a "JO-build" team and that he to, one day, will retire a Pacer.

SoupIsGood
06-16-2006, 06:37 AM
Didn't JO say last year that if he couldn't bring a championship to Indy then he shouldn't be here?

Hmmm.

Jon Theodore
06-16-2006, 10:00 AM
This interview has made me think we've seen the last of Jermaine O'neal.

Wishful thinking i am sure.

Since86
06-16-2006, 10:28 AM
JO is a good guy. Is he good enough to redo his contract?


You cannot renegoiate or "restructure" contracts in the NBA, so we are stuck with his salary as it is.

asfsdafa

JayRedd
06-16-2006, 11:00 AM
On one hand he says he's the leader and the team will only go as far as he will take them. Thus he promises to be in great shape and at the top if his game next year.

Then he turns around and says if he doesn't succeed in living up to his own guarantees he should be shipped out after next season. I find this rather contradictory.

It's like saying I'll pledge to be prepared, have a great year, and lead us to title contention. However, in case I fail in any of that, IMO, I need to be traded out of here. Read: I need an escape hatch for my own vows.


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think a lot of you are misinterpreting what Jermaine said. There is nothing there that leads me to believe he would ever "demand a trade."

What I get out of Jermaine's interview is that: "I'm the best player on this team. And I make a boat load of money. Over the past two years, I have been overpaid and the team has been a disaster. And I'm embarrassed about it because this is my team and how the Pacers play is ultimately my fault. If I can't right the ship in the near future, then I don't deserve to be cashing these huge paychecks from the Simons, and they should feel free to trade me somewhere where I wouldn't feel as bad 'stealing' the owners' money and underperforming for the city's fans."

brichard
06-16-2006, 05:47 PM
On one hand he says he's the leader and the team will only go as far as he will take them. Thus he promises to be in great shape and at the top if his game next year.

Then he turns around and says if he doesn't succeed in living up to his own guarantees he should be shipped out after next season. I find this rather contradictory.

It's like saying I'll pledge to be prepared, have a great year, and lead us to title contention. However, in case I fail in any of that, IMO, I need to be traded out of here. Read: I need an escape hatch for my own vows.

Gets back to the thing that always bugs me about JO that several have pointed out. Plenty of guarantees and commitments in the press and seeming enjoyment in that relationship. Then followed by little actually following through. Words vs. actions.

Admittedly, the last season and a half would have been a challenge to really put those words into action for obvious reasons. But just be quiet and do it and stop all the soap opera, me-me-me stuff with the press, such as this team will only go as far as I can take it. Give me a break already!


This is a great post. :iagree:

Losers make promises and winners make commitments.

We'll see which of those folks JO will be.

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in Jermaine.

Young
06-16-2006, 08:27 PM
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in Jermaine.

There is no I in team but there is in win.