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View Full Version : Miami has an extremely bleak future.



Sollozzo
06-13-2006, 06:18 PM
I think most knew that when Shaq came to Miami, the window was pretty short for them to win a title. This finals is probably about their only chance to do it.

Miami is going to be bogged down for years to come. Shaq has 80 million and 4 years left on his contract. Wade will be commanding a max deal soon.

Where are they going to get other players? The days of solid vets like Gary Payton, Karl Malone, and Zo coming to play alongside Shaq for a cheap price in hopes for a ring will be long gone. It's obvious that Shaq can't get that ring anymore.

Seriously, what does Miami do? Wade will be great but he will have an ancient center making 20 million a season and his cast of role players will get weaker every year.

Unclebuck
06-13-2006, 06:22 PM
I don't know about that.

Any team with Wade is going to be pretty good

Anthem
06-13-2006, 06:36 PM
Poor guys, languishing away in the Finals. I'm glad we're not them...

Gamble
06-13-2006, 06:39 PM
I think any team with Wade "in Miama" will be pretty good.

Lets be real Miama is a players paradise and playing along side
a dynamic guard is enough to pull other players who have already gotten
rich and only want a championship.

Shade
06-13-2006, 07:24 PM
Why is this news?

The Heat and Pistons will be pretty good for the next year or two, and then the LeBron show will begin. I hope we're rebuilding with that in mind.

3Ball
06-13-2006, 10:04 PM
I think the interesting question of the future will be what will Wade really do? Will he stay in Miami to get the biggest max deal, or will he jump to L.A. or someplace when he gets the chance.

Young
06-13-2006, 10:28 PM
I think the interesting question of the future will be what will Wade really do? Will he stay in Miami to get the biggest max deal, or will he jump to L.A. or someplace when he gets the chance.

I think that he has a great chance to win championships in Miami even when Shaq leaves.

I think people forget how good the Heat were in Wade's rookie year. They were a pretty good squad with Wade, Odom, Butler, and co. That was a real nice young core group they had going. They got to the second round and gave us a good fight losing in 6.

If the people up top are good, any team has a chance to win regardless of that franchise's history or location. Just ask the Mavs now that Mark Cuban has a few years under his belt.

Sollozzo
06-13-2006, 11:55 PM
Poor guys, languishing away in the Finals. I'm glad we're not them...


You obviously missed the part in the thread title where I said FUTURE.


I think that he has a great chance to win championships in Miami even when Shaq leaves.

I think people forget how good the Heat were in Wade's rookie year. They were a pretty good squad with Wade, Odom, Butler, and co. That was a real nice young core group they had going. They got to the second round and gave us a good fight losing in 6.

If the people up top are good, any team has a chance to win regardless of that franchise's history or location. Just ask the Mavs now that Mark Cuban has a few years under his belt.

Yes, the Heat were very good with those guys.

But the problem in the future is that Miami will have basically no money left. Wade will get a max deal whenever his contract is up. Shaq makes 20 mil a year. That leaves them basically no money to land decent players. Wade can only do so much. In Cleveland, the Cavs will still have money to throw at other guys once Lebron gets his big deal. That's because there is no other guy making 20 mil a season.

SoupIsGood
06-14-2006, 12:00 AM
I wish we had a bleak future that included someone like Wade. That guy is amazing.

bulldog
06-14-2006, 12:14 AM
Now that they won, I'm gonna start a thread titled "Miami has an amazing future."

Sollozzo
06-14-2006, 12:33 AM
Now that they won, I'm gonna start a thread titled "Miami has an amazing future."


The outcome of this particular series means little, if anything to Miami's future.

I'm just looking at the obvious. Miami is paying Shaq 20 million a year 4 more years. Shaq is obviously about finished. Miami will have to give Wade a max deal soon. Miami will have a hard time filling roster spots with good players because they won't have much money.

Does that sound like a good future to you? Wade will be great, but even MJ had to have a solid cast around him. Miami won't have any money to get him that type of cast.

Bball
06-14-2006, 01:09 AM
How much is a true championship run worth? And is it really worse to go for it up front rather than constantly build for 'down the road' (where things are much less certain)?


_Bball

Slick Pinkham
06-14-2006, 01:25 PM
There are lots of off days, and the sport is played in winter.

but, need I say more than this:

Go to Miami as a free agent, and Anna Kournikova is one of your biggest fans.

JayRedd
06-14-2006, 02:09 PM
The outcome of this particular series means little, if anything to Miami's future.

I'm just looking at the obvious. Miami is paying Shaq 20 million a year 4 more years. Shaq is obviously about finished. Miami will have to give Wade a max deal soon. Miami will have a hard time filling roster spots with good players because they won't have much money.

Does that sound like a good future to you? Wade will be great, but even MJ had to have a solid cast around him. Miami won't have any money to get him that type of cast.

Wade has a really tough choice ahead of him. If they do lose to Dallas (I still think they'll win, but whatever), Wade will have one more season under contract to try to win a ring for Miami with Shaq. If they don't get it done by the end of next year, I'd think Wade would walk. Shaq is his boy and all, but I don't think he can tie his prime athletic seasons (age 25 to 30) to a franchise so badly constrained by the salary cap.

Between Shaq, Walker, JWill and Haslem, the Heat currently have $43.5 million on the books for 2007-08. This year's cap was $49.5 million, and while it will be a little higher by then, it won't be that much higher. Add in Wade's max deal ($13-15 million per year for 6 years), and the Heat are well over the cap (or close to it) until Walker comes off the books in 2009. Shaq will be a corpse by then and Miami can actually start rebuilding around DWade. But assuming they're still a 2nd Round playoff team over the next 3 years, they won't gain much of a foundation through the draft either. I think they'd look something like the Celtics do right now at best: A bunch of young fringe players and one superstar in his prime.

Does Wade really want to wait around until (at least) 2010 when he'll be 28 years old to make another legit run at a Championship? Especially with his boy Lebron already gearing up for a potential dynasty? If it's me, I'm not re-signing with Miami. Maybe hometown Chicago? Or how bout another mid-west city? Indiana, maybe? ;)

Tim
06-14-2006, 02:32 PM
I think the interesting question of the future will be what will Wade really do? Will he stay in Miami to get the biggest max deal, or will he jump to L.A. or someplace when he gets the chance.


The chance for what? He is the star in a big market playing in the finals.
Money will not be an issue, he could take less than max and make up for it 3 times over in off court earnings.

JayRedd
06-14-2006, 02:40 PM
The chance for what?

The chance for a (or another) ring. The point here is that after next season, he may have very little chance of getting one in Miami over the following 4-5 years given the team's salary cap situation.

Robertmto
06-14-2006, 02:43 PM
The chance for a (or another) ring. The point here is that after next season, he may have very little chance of getting one in Miami over the following 4-5 years given the team's salary cap situation.

definitely "a"

ChicagoJ
06-14-2006, 03:13 PM
I'm not convinced Shaq is as washed-up as everyone says.

He'll need a lighter load in the regular season, but that's okay.

For all the "The game is changing" comments - well, the team with Shaq is still in The Finals. Having a top-quality big man is still the safest way to ensure your team is a perennial contender.

With Riley in charge and Wade and Shaq (even if he's not the "2000 Shaq" anymore) on the court, I'd consider the Heat's future better than the Pacers' future.

Kegboy
06-14-2006, 03:19 PM
I'd consider the Heat's future better than the Pacers' future.

Not to get off track, but is there anyone whose future isn't better than the Pacers'?

Hicks
06-14-2006, 03:23 PM
According to this forum? No one.

Since86
06-14-2006, 04:25 PM
According to this forum? No one.


DK hasn't been around for a while, but I didn't think you'd forget about him this quickly.

Robertmto
06-14-2006, 05:19 PM
Not to get off track, but is there anyone whose future isn't better than the Pacers'?

:knicks:

and

:carlisle:

JayRedd
06-14-2006, 05:29 PM
I'm not convinced Shaq is as washed-up as everyone says.

He'll need a lighter load in the regular season, but that's okay.

For all the "The game is changing" comments - well, the team with Shaq is still in The Finals. Having a top-quality big man is still the safest way to ensure your team is a perennial contender.

With Riley in charge and Wade and Shaq (even if he's not the "2000 Shaq" anymore) on the court, I'd consider the Heat's future better than the Pacers' future.

He'll still be a Top 3 center until he retires. I just think next year is the last one where he'll be actually "dominant". I see the last two years on his current deal being like an '88-89 Kareem. He's not gonna win you a Finals, but he's certainly not anywhere near a liability.

The only thing is that, in addition to Magic and Kareem, that Back-to-Back Championship Laker squad also had Big Game James, Michael Cooper, Byron Scott, AC Green and Mychal Thompson. Other than Haslem and maybe Wayne Simien, I can't see many players that will be drafted or signed through free agency that are gonna help DWade and Shaq turn the '08 or '09 Heat real contenders.

Sollozzo
06-14-2006, 05:30 PM
I'm not convinced Shaq is as washed-up as everyone says.

He'll need a lighter load in the regular season, but that's okay.

For all the "The game is changing" comments - well, the team with Shaq is still in The Finals. Having a top-quality big man is still the safest way to ensure your team is a perennial contender.

With Riley in charge and Wade and Shaq (even if he's not the "2000 Shaq" anymore) on the court, I'd consider the Heat's future better than the Pacers' future.


I agree with the big man approach, but Shaq's decline is inevitable. Once an NBA player hits 30, every year is different. There's really no difference in a player's physical ability from when they're 25 to when they're 30. When Shaq was 30, it was 2002 and he destroyed the Nets in the finals averaging like 36 a game. When he was 32, it was 2004 and he had obviously declined a little and averaged something like 26 against Detroit. Now it's 2006, and all it's taking to stop him is Diop and Dampier. When Shaq was 30, he would have destroyed them.

I think that pattern speaks for itself. The decline of NBA players in their 30's is inevitable. Something seems to happen to players once they hit age 35. In 2002-2003, Gary Payton was going on 35 and was an allstar averaging about 20 ppg. Now, just 3 seasons later, he has been reduced to a bench player that seems to average about 5. Look at Jordan. When he was 35, he was wrapping up his 6th title. But when he came back just over 3 years later in 2001, he couldn't do close to what he had done in 98. When the Pacers went to the finals, Reggie was going on 35. He killed teams in the playoffs that year. But just look at how much he had declined by the end of his career.

When we're looking at Shaq in 2 more years, you'll see an even bigger difference. He'll be 36. He won't be able to change the game much, if at all. He'll look like Ewing did the last couple years of his career.

Shaq's game has always relyed on dominating by force. That's worked for about all of his 14 years in the league. But it's going to be stopping soon. Shaq doesn't have fundamental skills. Why were Jabbar and Malone so effective at old ages? They had fundamental basketball skills.

Eindar
06-14-2006, 06:38 PM
I still think trading for Shaq was a big mistake. Yes, they're in the Finals. But look at how much trouble they gave our 61-win team in Wade's rookie year. He's obviously better now, and then look at what Caron Butler did this year in Washington. When you throw in that Odom could have stayed at that level, I'm not sure they wouldn't be in the Finals this year anyway.

I think the Heat made their goal with Shaq, and that was to get to the Finals. The question becomes, what will be the long-term cost of having an aging legend at 20 mil for the next 4 years?

Sollozzo
06-14-2006, 06:49 PM
I still think trading for Shaq was a big mistake. Yes, they're in the Finals. But look at how much trouble they gave our 61-win team in Wade's rookie year. He's obviously better now, and then look at what Caron Butler did this year in Washington. When you throw in that Odom could have stayed at that level, I'm not sure they wouldn't be in the Finals this year anyway.

I think the Heat made their goal with Shaq, and that was to get to the Finals. The question becomes, what will be the long-term cost of having an aging legend at 20 mil for the next 4 years?


I don't think it was a mistake. They knew there was a short window when they got him.

You have to realize that the NBA is equally about making money as it is about winning games. Since Shaq arrived, Miami is on TV all the time, sells outs all its games, and probably has seen merchandise sales go through the roof. From a money making standpoint, the move was a no brainer.

denyfizle
06-15-2006, 03:20 AM
i thought this was about hurricanes ;)

JayRedd
06-15-2006, 10:03 AM
I don't think it was a mistake. They knew there was a short window when they got him.

You have to realize that the NBA is way more about making money than it is about winning games. Since Shaq arrived, Miami is on TV all the time, sells outs all its games, and probably has seen merchandise sales go through the roof. From a money making standpoint, the move was a no brainer.

Fixed your quote :)

This is a list of players and teams that sold the most jerseys from the 2003-2004 season.

<TABLE class=normal cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=400 bgColor=#000000 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#555555><TD colSpan=2>TOP 25 PLAYERS</TD><TD>TOP 10 TEAMS</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>1. LeBron James</TD><TD>13. Anfernee Hardaway</TD><TD>1. Los Angeles Lakers</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>2. Carmelo Anthony</TD><TD>14. Rasheed Wallace</TD><TD>2. New York Knicks</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>3. Stephon Marbury</TD><TD>15. Vince Carter</TD><TD>3. Philadelphia 76ers</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>4. Tracy McGrady</TD><TD>16. Allan Houston</TD><TD>4. Cleveland Cavaliers</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>5. Allen Iverson</TD><TD>17. Paul Pierce</TD><TD>5. Chicago Bulls</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>6. Tim Duncan</TD><TD>18. Yao Ming</TD><TD>6. Boston Celtics</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>7. Kobe Bryant</TD><TD>19. Kevin Garnett</TD><TD>7. New Jersey Nets</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>8. Steve Francis</TD><TD>20. Baron Davis</TD><TD>8. San Antonio Spurs</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>9. Shaquille O’Neal</TD><TD>21. Latrell Sprewell </TD><TD>9. Orlando Magic</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>10. Scottie Pippen</TD><TD>22. Jalen Rose </TD><TD>10. Denver Nuggets</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD>11. Gary Payton</TD><TD>23. Jason Richardson</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#ffffff><TD>12. Jermaine O’Neal</TD><TD>24. Chris Webber</TD><TD></TD></TR><TR bgColor=#e0e0e0><TD></TD><TD>25. Jason Kidd</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[*edit* -- List is from jerseys sold at NYC NBA store. Maybe that explains Penny.]

Last year, Wade was number #1 and Shaq was #6.

Obviously, this doesn't tell you everything about how much money a team is making in endorsements, marketing and all that other business stuff, but it's fair to say Miami is making about as much money as it possibly can in it's market right now. Sure, DWade is a a big factor in this. But the real reason is Shaq. And this, more than a ring, is what the owners will base whether or not trading for Shaq was a good idea.

(BTW...I find it really hard to believe that Penny Hardaway sold more jerseys than Paul Pierce, KG and, especially, Yao. Have you seen someone in a Penny jersey in the last 10 years?)

Steve McQueen
06-16-2006, 01:05 AM
I don't know about that.

Any team with Wade is going to be pretty good
Yeah, because as guys like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, and Tracy McGrady have proven, you don't need an actual team to be successful, just 1 superstar and a bunch of scrubs.....
And I agree with the o.p., Miami looks to be headed for a big downfall within a few seasons. Shaq's on his last legs and the majority of thier roster is aged. I could see them becoming Dwyane Wade and the Scrub Club within 2 seasons. But hey, atleast they're competing for a championship now.

Robertmto
06-16-2006, 01:14 AM
When is the title of this thread gonna change?

BoomBaby31
06-16-2006, 01:22 AM
I think most knew that when Shaq came to Miami, the window was pretty short for them to win a title. This finals is probably about their only chance to do it.

Miami is going to be bogged down for years to come. Shaq has 80 million and 4 years left on his contract. Wade will be commanding a max deal soon.

Where are they going to get other players? The days of solid vets like Gary Payton, Karl Malone, and Zo coming to play alongside Shaq for a cheap price in hopes for a ring will be long gone. It's obvious that Shaq can't get that ring anymore.

Seriously, what does Miami do? Wade will be great but he will have an ancient center making 20 million a season and his cast of role players will get weaker every year.

I think the absolute opposite, Wade would be better off with out these guys. Shaq helps a little but, Gary is a turn over machine and hurts more then helps, ZO is just here waiting to win a title and blocks about 1 shot a game no effect on the team, Walker helps more then hurts, but posey coming off the bench isn't going to set well next year. J-Will has upped his game since coming to Miami and is a good PG for Wade. Wade almost made it to the ECF his rookie year with virtually no one. I think last years team would of been 20% better then this years, Heat. Miami is going to be okay but, i don't see any Championships in their future unless they get rid of those old guys just looking for a ring, and hot headed big ego decent shooters. They need a make over, and it needs to look like last years Heat including Van Gundy :).

JayRedd
06-16-2006, 11:33 AM
I think the absolute opposite, Wade would be better off with out these guys. Shaq helps a little but, Gary is a turn over machine and hurts more then helps, ZO is just here waiting to win a title and blocks about 1 shot a game no effect on the team, Walker helps more then hurts, but posey coming off the bench isn't going to set well next year. J-Will has upped his game since coming to Miami and is a good PG for Wade. Wade almost made it to the ECF his rookie year with virtually no one. I think last years team would of been 20% better then this years, Heat.

No offense, but do you watch basketball?

Zo and Payton are nonfactors on this team?

GP is a turnover machine? He has 16 turnovers in 20 playoff games this year so far. And, not sure if you saw, but he did hit the game winner in the do-or-die Game 3. I think I'd put that in the "helps more than hurts" category.

You understand that this team just beat the "Considered-Invincible-Two-Months-Ago" Detroit Pistons right?

The next 5-6 years may be bleak overall, but these guys are fine right now. Not sure about the 20% better statistic, but all I know is that they are in the driver's seat of the NBA Finals right now and are a mortal lock for the ECF again next year.

Robertmto
06-16-2006, 11:59 AM
I think the absolute opposite, Wade would be better off with out these guys. Shaq helps a little but, Gary is a turn over machine and hurts more then helps, ZO is just here waiting to win a title and blocks about 1 shot a game no effect on the team, Walker helps more then hurts, but posey coming off the bench isn't going to set well next year. J-Will has upped his game since coming to Miami and is a good PG for Wade. Wade almost made it to the ECF his rookie year with virtually no one. I think last years team would of been 20% better then this years, Heat. Miami is going to be okay but, i don't see any Championships in their future unless they get rid of those old guys just looking for a ring, and hot headed big ego decent shooters. They need a make over, and it needs to look like last years Heat including Van Gundy :).

Wow, just Wow.

Sollozzo
01-02-2008, 05:10 PM
:bump:

Shade
01-02-2008, 05:20 PM
This is still not news.

But seeing as how the Heat won a title before the collapse:

Miami 1, Indiana 0

:(

BlueNGold
01-02-2008, 06:34 PM
IMO, Miami's future is easily brighter than our own.

DWade is only 1 year older than Granger and obviously has triple the talent. In fact, DWade is much, much better than any current Pacer and probably better than any Pacer in history. He is a rare player in that he can play either guard position at it's highest level. He is probably around #5 in the league considering he is also a clutch player.

Sure, Shaq and Mourning are done. But DWade is only 25 years old. He will be very good for another 7 years or so, easily enough time build around him. This is particularly true since players will prefer to play in Miami with him and if he keeps coaching, the legendary Pat Riley.

No, if anything it's looking good for them.

Sollozzo
01-02-2008, 07:01 PM
I don't think they can do much during the next 2 years as long as Shaq's 20 mil a year is still there. Shaq retiring is the only way this team can start to rebuild.

Mourning
01-02-2008, 07:40 PM
They can start collecting new top talents, while we will make do with top-15 picks and worse and aging and a lot of times (for us) injury-prone players, but hey we make the play-offs (as first round cannon fodder or a rare second round opponent), because "we have to make the play-offs every year, etc, etc, etc" which won't get us anywhere in the longterm.

It will be no surprise that I aggree with Blue here.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

tdubb03
01-02-2008, 07:54 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Wade deals with losing for a couple seasons. And to see how long Shaq hangs on.

Bump this in 2010 so I can get an update!

Bball
01-02-2008, 11:32 PM
I don't think they can do much during the next 2 years as long as Shaq's 20 mil a year is still there. Shaq retiring is the only way this team can start to rebuild.

They can suck their way to some high draft picks to play alongside DWade. And stare at the recent NBA Championship trophy they own.

I understand your point, but really I'd take their situation in a heartbeat. It would only be a problem of any major concern if they didn't have a Dwade on the roster and had traded for Shaq who they alone pinned their hopes on. Our situation is much worse, because we have our own broken down O Neal who has never been anything close to the player Shaq ever was.... and we don't have a Dwade waiting on the team to reload. ...And we have management (and/or ownership) that is fine with being mediocre. ...As long as the playoffs are in reach, we'll stand pat and tweak the edges. We can't risk missing the playoffs!!!!

-Bball

LoneGranger33
01-03-2008, 12:15 PM
Let's trade Murphy, Granger, Williams, Diogu and two straight first-rounders for Wade and Cook.

Shade
01-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Let's trade Murphy, Granger, Williams, Diogu and two straight first-rounders for Wade and Cook.

Or, we could just tank/trade for high picks next season and draft our own Wade in Eric Gordon. ;)

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2008, 01:59 PM
They can start collecting new top talents, while we will make do with top-15 picks and worse and aging and a lot of times (for us) injury-prone players, but hey we make the play-offs (as first round cannon fodder or a rare second round opponent), because "we have to make the play-offs every year, etc, etc, etc" which won't get us anywhere in the longterm.

It will be no surprise that I aggree with Blue here.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:
No, the picks are going to be better than top 15. I don't see where you have Miami as some lock to draft higher than Indy in the next few years, or that Shaq's money will come off the books much sooner than JO.

And the Clippers and Bulls called, they want to talk to the Heat about the "certainty" of riding draft picks to a title, or even the conference finals.

This "oh, they'll get young talent and then explode once Shaq is done". Who says? Who says they won't get the duds in the draft, there are always plenty to go around. Who says Wade won't get sick of it and join Kobe in LA or something?


In one sense it does justify Miami going for it when they did, but on the other hand they barely pulled that off. Was it worth it if Dallas holds on, or if Detroit keeps them out of the Finals? It's not like they just got to automatically have a title because they had Shaq and Wade.

Denver has freaking Melo and AI. They don't look better than Detroit or Boston and don't appear to be headed that way in the next year or two. So elite scorers picked at the top of that draft don't mean you get a free pass to a ring.

For all we know the Pacers could be on top in 3 years if you think the Heat could be.

My point would be that the Spurs and Pistons have shown that a 5-6-10 year window is a lot better than a 2 year version. If you get lucky and make it work, great, but the Lakers and Celtics weren't the kings of the 80s because they got a single ring and then fell apart for 5-6 years.

FlavaDave
01-03-2008, 02:18 PM
You know, we could try to trade Jamaal Tinsley and Mike Dunleavy to Miami for J Will and Ricky Davis. Then we could cut both of them before they set foot in Indiana.

That would mean we would totally suck, and therefore we would be in the lottery. At the end of the season, JO would probably opt out to play for a better team. J Will's and Ricky's contracts would be off the books.


Know what that means? This off season we would have $24 million in cap room with a lottery pick.

Fool
01-03-2008, 02:24 PM
I'm starting to think Seth would turn down a championship if it was offered.

Mourning
01-03-2008, 03:26 PM
I'm starting to think Seth would turn down a championship if it was offered.

:lol:

d_c
01-03-2008, 03:34 PM
I don't see how anyone can crap on the decisions the Heat have made.

They made it a goal to win a championship in the short term and they accomplished it. They got to the conference finals twice and won a championship once. It's difficult to win a championship no matter what the circumstances so I'd say they were successful.

Sure, they've crashed and burned this year. Just like how they crashed and burned a few years ago and then wound up with Wade in the draft.

Pat Riley isn't perfect, but he usually ends up finding ways to make his teams successful one way or another and I'm guessing he's going to do it again in the next couple of years. I'm going to give a guy who's succeeded a lot more than he's failed the benefit of the doubt.

JayRedd
01-03-2008, 04:19 PM
My point would be that the Spurs and Pistons have shown that a 5-6-10 year window is a lot better than a 2 year version. If you get lucky and make it work, great, but the Lakers and Celtics weren't the kings of the 80s because they got a single ring and then fell apart for 5-6 years.

That's all well and good.

But name one team other than the 2004 Pistons in the past 25 years that has won a title without their own Top 6 pick.

I'll save you some time: The 1999-2001 Lakers. And all they needed to overcome the lack of a high pick was to buy Shaq and be shrewd (or lucky, for you cynics) enough to find Kobe at #13. Being fortunate enough to acquire two Top-25 players of all time isn't exactly a plan to bank on.

So you're right...A Top 5 pick doesn't guarentee you anything ala the Clippers and Bulls. But never having one makes it a near-certainly you'll never be holding that Larry O'Brien.

Mourning
01-03-2008, 04:23 PM
That's all well and good.

But name one team other than the 2004 Pistons in the past 25 years that has won a title since without their own Top 6 pick.

I'll save you some time: The 1999-2001 Lakers. And all they needed to overcome the lack of a high pick was to buy Shaq and be shrewd (or lucky, for you cynics) enough to find Kobe at #13. Not exactly a plan to bank on.

So you're right...A Top 5 pick doesn't guarentee you anything ala the Clippers and Bulls. But never having one makes it a near-certainly you'll never be holding that Larry O'Brien.


Thank you! :thumbsup:

naptownmenace
01-04-2008, 05:10 PM
That's all well and good.

But name one team other than the 2004 Pistons in the past 25 years that has won a title without their own Top 6 pick.

I'll save you some time: The 1999-2001 Lakers. And all they needed to overcome the lack of a high pick was to buy Shaq and be shrewd (or lucky, for you cynics) enough to find Kobe at #13. Being fortunate enough to acquire two Top-25 players of all time isn't exactly a plan to bank on.

So you're right...A Top 5 pick doesn't guarentee you anything ala the Clippers and Bulls. But never having one makes it a near-certainly you'll never be holding that Larry O'Brien.

Good points but even the 2004 Pistons had a player who was a top 5 draft pick - Chauncey Billups (3rd overall pick by Boston in 1997).

Actually that just proves your point even further.

JayRedd
01-04-2008, 05:30 PM
Actually that just proves your point even further.

Yeah...left them as the one counter example since they didn't actually draft him and he was considered a semi bust until he got to MoTown.