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View Full Version : IF (I said "IF") the Pacers trade JO; where does that leave Peja?



ChicagoJ
06-13-2006, 10:59 AM
Specifically, if the Pacers trade JO to move up in the draft.

IMO, there's no reason to re-sign Peja to a big contract if the team doesn't have a legit post presence as the #1 option.

Further, a trade of JO is a signal (and probably an accurate one) that the Pacers championship window is several years away - it seems we're about to enter the LBJ era. So why re-sign a relatively old veteran anyway?

Or does Bird perhaps think Peja is the "star" player he wants to build around?

If so, how do you do that? Sacramento already showed that it won't be easy, especially (again) without a post presence.

I think that would be a bad idea, but I'm full of "weird" ideas :flirt: so I'm happy to listen to other suggestions.

Unclebuck
06-13-2006, 11:08 AM
I have real doubts about re-signing Peja regardless of what they do with JO. But if they trade JO, depending on what they get in return, then I would even be less in favor of re-signing Peja.

FrenchConnection
06-13-2006, 11:08 AM
If we look at it like we are entering the LBJ era, then we might as well give up on the rebuilding for at least the next 7-10 years. I don't think that you can look at it like that. We have to build as if we are in a vacuum. Now I don't disagree with you on the point about Peja, but to give up until the LeBron era is over is defeatism and I would hope that the Pacers' management thinks about things differently.

D-BONE
06-13-2006, 11:13 AM
Do not resign Peja under any circumstances.

Unclebuck
06-13-2006, 11:18 AM
Or does Bird perhaps think Peja is the "star" player he wants to build around?

If so, how do you do that? Sacramento already showed that it won't be easy, especially (again) without a post presence.



Jay, I used to be a huge believer in the theory that you need a post presense on offense to be successful in the playoffs. Well I've done a complete 180 on that. Post play has never been less important, in fact, I'd much rather have a penetrator.

I asked a question a few weeks back if Peja can change his game like Dirk has. Can Peja drive more, get to the free throw line more, I don't know. But if he can then Yes I think you can build around Peja and I would try to follow the mavs blueprint and try to follow it to a T.

You already have Granger who can be like Josh Howard, beyond that, you have a ton of work to do.

Jay, I just don't think a post presense and a spot of shooter is a winning formula anymore. In other words the Rockets of the mid 90's and the magic of the mid 90's would be .500 teams in todays NBA. Where as 10 years ago they were in the Finals

SoupIsGood
06-13-2006, 11:21 AM
Jay, I used to be a huge believer in the theory that you need a post presense on offense to be successful in the playoffs. Well I've done a complete 180 on that. Post play has never been less important, in fact, I'd much rather have a penetrator.

I asked a question a few weeks back if Peja can change his game like Dirk has. Can Peja drive more, get to the free throw line more, I don't know. But if he can then Yes I think you can build around Peja and I would try to follow the mavs blueprint and try to follow it to a T.

You already have Granger who can be like Josh Howard, beyond that, you have a ton of work to do.

Jay, I just don't think a post presense and a spot of shooter is a winning formula anymore. In other words the Rockets of the mid 90's and the magic of the mid 90's would be .500 teams in todays NBA. Where as 10 years ago they were in the Finals

I don't think Peja handles the ball well enough to ever become like Dirk.

Post players aren't as important anymore, but dang Buck! :hmm:
--- Edited Follow-Up ---

Do not resign Peja under any circumstances.

What this guy said!

Leisure Suit Larry
06-13-2006, 11:27 AM
SIGN PEJA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!

Shade
06-13-2006, 11:36 AM
I have real doubts about re-signing Peja regardless of what they do with JO. But if they trade JO, depending on what they get in return, then I would even be less in favor of re-signing Peja.

Yup, that's pretty much what I was going to say.

My biggest fear is that Bird is going to try to remake the team in his image: a bunch of slow, white jumpshooters.

Peja
Croshere
Runi
Morrison
Redick

:shudder:

SoupIsGood
06-13-2006, 11:38 AM
SIGN PEJA UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!


How fitting that your name is Larry :suicide:

Unclebuck
06-13-2006, 11:48 AM
Yup, that's pretty much what I was going to say.

My biggest fear is that Bird is going to try to remake the team in his image: a bunch of slow, white jumpshooters.

Peja
Croshere
Runi
Morrison
Redick

:shudder:

My biggest nightmare

Bball
06-13-2006, 11:50 AM
I would try to follow the mavs blueprint and try to follow it to a T.



You mean changing to an aggressive front office where winning a championship is goal #1?

-Bball

Los Angeles
06-13-2006, 11:50 AM
Do not resign Peja under any circumstances.
Yep.

SoupIsGood
06-13-2006, 11:50 AM
My biggest nightmare
But what if Larry could put that team together and still win games? :eyebrow:

Slow, white, shooters could become what quick, versatile slashers are now. :sunshine: lol

Shade
06-13-2006, 11:54 AM
But what if Larry could put that team together and still win games? :eyebrow:

Slow, white, shooters could become what quick, versatile slashers are now. :sunshine: lol

I hope they can REALLY shoot, because they're going to have to score about 150 points a game to offset their lack of defense.

Old Dallas style! :suicide:

Gamble
06-13-2006, 12:00 PM
I have to agree with you UB. I am hesitant on resigning him if JO
is traded. The move would make no sense since our problem isn't at
the small foreward.

Bball
06-13-2006, 12:04 PM
Or does Bird perhaps think Peja is the "star" player he wants to build around?

That wouldn't surprise me...

-Bball

beast23
06-13-2006, 12:06 PM
Wait a minute. I think you guys are looking at this JO thing all wrong.

What would it mean if we did trade JO for let's say CV and the #1 (even though the trade has been supposedly poo-pooed by Toronto)?

You guys seem to believe that that would mean that we've conceded that we will go into a long rebuilding phase of 5 years or more.

But what if it has another meaning? What if it really means that Bird/Donnie have conceded that our post game is not working and it's time to focus our offense on the perimeter and less on post play?

To me, that means that it would be very important to re-sign Peja. In fact he would be one of the key pieces to any potential success that the team might enjoy.

Another thing that would probably come into play would be that other rumor... trade Tinsley for Davis. That way, you have another perimeter-oriented player that is also a good finisher at the rim.

You make those two moves, and coupled with whomever you would acquire at #1 and further development of Granger, along with whatever defender you would get in trade for JO for the post, and you've gone a long way towards quickly becoming a competitive perimeter-oriented, fast-paced team.

So, I think you have to broaden your viewpoint to try to predict a rationale behind a possible trading of Jermaine. In my opinion, we would have to be abandoning our post-oriented offense in favor of a perimeter orientation.

If that is the case, allowing Peja to walk after trading Jermaine would not only be unwise, it would be catastrophic.

microwave_oven
06-13-2006, 12:19 PM
For the record...Dirk isn't that great of a ball handler either.

ChicagoJ
06-13-2006, 12:40 PM
... but to give up until the LeBron era is over is defeatism and I would hope that the Pacers' management thinks about things differently.

I don't think I implied defeatism. Rather, we're going to have to build a team that is better than James'. One of the Pacers' best teams in history ran into a MJ-led Bulls team that was just a little bit better. And then they had a window of opportunity and wasted it with a choke job against the Knicks and then ran into the beginning of the Shaq/Kobe era.

I don't think any team can operate in a vacuum.

This question is valid, however: Are the Pacers building for a championship run in 2006/07? :signit: Or 2008/09?

Bball
06-13-2006, 12:46 PM
Wait a minute. I think you guys are looking at this JO thing all wrong.

What would it mean if we did trade JO for let's say CV and the #1 (even though the trade has been supposedly poo-pooed by Toronto)?

You guys seem to believe that that would mean that we've conceded that we will go into a long rebuilding phase of 5 years or more.

But what if it has another meaning? What if it really means that Bird/Donnie have conceded that our post game is not working and it's time to focus our offense on the perimeter and less on post play?

To me, that means that it would be very important to re-sign Peja. In fact he would be one of the key pieces to any potential success that the team might enjoy.

Another thing that would probably come into play would be that other rumor... trade Tinsley for Davis. That way, you have another perimeter-oriented player that is also a good finisher at the rim.

You make those two moves, and coupled with whomever you would acquire at #1 and further development of Granger, along with whatever defender you would get in trade for JO for the post, and you've gone a long way towards quickly becoming a competitive perimeter-oriented, fast-paced team.

So, I think you have to broaden your viewpoint to try to predict a rationale behind a possible trading of Jermaine. In my opinion, we would have to be abandoning our post-oriented offense in favor of a perimeter orientation.

If that is the case, allowing Peja to walk after trading Jermaine would not only be unwise, it would be catastrophic.


I agree with this.

-Bball

Young
06-13-2006, 01:10 PM
I like Peja's game. He just might be my favorite Pacer. I've almost always been all for him being a Pacer, but even I don't know that I want to re-sign him.

Lets say that we trade JO for just the number one pick, I guess I would be pulling for Adam Morrison, so I really can't see Peja being re-signed then. Now if we drafted Bargnani or Aldrige, then yeah I could see us re-signing Peja.

Now if we keep JO, do we re-sign Peja? Even then i'm still a little iffy on it. I question Peja's abilty to stay healthy. I have no question about his game, it's his health.

Either way, I wouldn't want to sign Peja for more than 4 years, perferably 3.

Shade
06-13-2006, 01:16 PM
I have to agree with you UB. I am hesitant on resigning him if JO
is traded. The move would make no sense since our problem isn't at
the small foreward.

And since Bird obviously loves Peja, that makes the likelihood of JO being traded for garbage pretty low.

I keep saying it; we need a quick, scoring SG and a scoring C or PF and we'll be okay.

D-BONE
06-13-2006, 01:20 PM
For the record...Dirk isn't that great of a ball handler either.

True in the most general sense. However, the whole key with Dirk is his matchups with other PFs. In comparison with those at his position, he's an excellent shooter, FT shooter, ballhandler, and athlete from an agility standpoint. He's a good rebounder and an adequate defender.

If the comparison relates back to UB's question as to whether Peja can elevate his game as has Dirk, I have to think it unlikely. The only similarities I see in their games is both have great shooting ability.

Otherwise, IMO, Peja is less aggressive, less athletic, and less mentally tough. I think his handle is somewhat worse than Dirk's in direct comparison, but considerably worse than most players at the SF.

tate
06-13-2006, 02:22 PM
I think they will try to re-sign Peja whether he is a part of the long term plan or not, as long as he signs for close to his worth. Peja is a good player, there will be teams that would take him off our hands next summer for some pieces that could help us. As far as if JO is gone,he did well without him this year and didn't Peja have his best year when Webber was hurt? Could build his value even more maybe.

rushmore
06-13-2006, 02:30 PM
Another thing that would probably come into play would be that other rumor... trade Tinsley for Davis. That way, you have another perimeter-oriented player that is also a good finisher at the rim.


This makes me wonder if we plan on re-signing Fred Jones too? Wouldn't Davis and Freddy be redundant? Where does this leave Freddy?

Anthem
06-13-2006, 02:34 PM
Assuming we're not talking max money, you absolutely re-sign Peja. Then trade him.

beast23
06-13-2006, 02:53 PM
This makes me wonder if we plan on re-signing Fred Jones too? Wouldn't Davis and Freddy be redundant? Where does this leave Freddy?Freddy couldn't be redundant with Davis on his best day.

Now if you were to say that Freddie's talents are a "subset" of Davis', a very small subset at that, I'd go along with that statement.

rushmore
06-13-2006, 03:16 PM
Freddy couldn't be redundant with Davis on his best day.

Now if you were to say that Freddie's talents are a "subset" of Davis', a very small subset at that, I'd go along with that statement.


Agreed 100%. I think it would mean that Freddy is gone...


-In fact, I already believe that Freddy is gone...

FrenchConnection
06-13-2006, 03:22 PM
I don't think I implied defeatism. Rather, we're going to have to build a team that is better than James'. One of the Pacers' best teams in history ran into a MJ-led Bulls team that was just a little bit better. And then they had a window of opportunity and wasted it with a choke job against the Knicks and then ran into the beginning of the Shaq/Kobe era.

I don't think any team can operate in a vacuum.

This question is valid, however: Are the Pacers building for a championship run in 2006/07? :signit: Or 2008/09?

Good points. I thought that you were saying that we might as well just give up and wait until after LeBron has had his run. That could be a very long time.

Peck
06-13-2006, 03:29 PM
[QUOTE=Unclebuck]Jay, I used to be a huge believer in the theory that you need a post presense on offense to be successful in the playoffs. Well I've done a complete 180 on that. Post play has never been less important, in fact, I'd much rather have a penetrator.

Did you just block the Bulls out of your mind on purpose or was it a subconcious choice to not remember them?

Anthem
06-13-2006, 04:13 PM
Did you just block the Bulls out of your mind on purpose or was it a subconcious choice to not remember them?
The Bulls had a very effective post player.

His name was Michael Jordan.

Unclebuck
06-13-2006, 04:16 PM
[QUOTE=Unclebuck]Jay, I used to be a huge believer in the theory that you need a post presense on offense to be successful in the playoffs. Well I've done a complete 180 on that. Post play has never been less important, in fact, I'd much rather have a penetrator.

Did you just block the Bulls out of your mind on purpose or was it a subconcious choice to not remember them?


I think you asked me this the other day and I don't think I responded.

I guess I considered the Bulls an exception to the rule because of Jordan and his unique and extreme talents.

If you look at all the other good teams of the 90's, they all had very good low post centers/power forwards. Rockets, Jazz, Suns (but only after they got Barkley) Knicks, Pacers, even the Sonics had Kemp who was a pretty good low-post player.