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Kamiyohk
06-11-2006, 11:17 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/40870/20060611/pacers_and_raptors_talk_oneal_trade/

The Pacers (http://pacers.realgm.com/) reportedly have discussed a trade with Toronto (http://raptors.realgm.com/) that would send Jermaine O’Neal to the Raptors (http://raptors.realgm.com/) for a package that would include the No. 1 pick.

The Pacers, according to Mark Murphy, would likely take Adam Morrison.

Indiana may also be talking with the Timberwolves (http://timberwolves.realgm.com/) about a Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/105/jamaal_tinsley/)-for-Ricky Davis (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/272/ricky_davis/) deal.

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 11:18 AM
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/40870/20060611/pacers_and_raptors_talk_oneal_trade/
Boston Herald - The Pacers (http://pacers.realgm.com/) reportedly have discussed a trade with Toronto (http://raptors.realgm.com/) that would send Jermaine O’Neal to the Raptors (http://raptors.realgm.com/) for a package that would include the No. 1 pick.

The Pacers, according to Mark Murphy, would likely take Adam Morrison.

Indiana may also be talking with the Timberwolves (http://timberwolves.realgm.com/) about a Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/105/jamaal_tinsley/)-for-Ricky Davis (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/272/ricky_davis/) deal.



This blurb is from the RealGM wiretap. Yes more JO for the number 1 pick talk which looks more and more like a Donnie smoke screen to me.
Also if we did get the number 1 pick is Morrison worth it? Is it not much wiser for us to take Roy or Aldridge? I think Morrison is not worth it and we would regret this move.
The last sentence of a Tinsley for Ricky Davis swap only makes sense if we have a deal to ship Jack out on the next train. I would be for it in that case but having Jack and Ricky on the same team sounds like trouble.
Plenty of points to tackle here so shoot away.

Jermaniac
06-11-2006, 11:20 AM
Larry Bird loves dem Jumpshooters boy

AJ or Sarunas
Morrison
Peja
Croshere
Foster starting next year YESUR.

Unless we plan on trading Jack we dont need Ricky Davis.

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 11:21 AM
You beat me to the punch barely, but at least I provided my opinions on it.

Kegboy
06-11-2006, 11:22 AM
Is Morrison worth the #1 pick? No. But then, nobody in this draft is worth giving up JO for.

Tinsley for Ricky? Yeah, that'll really help the locker room. :suicide: (Once again, somebody needs to make a sad :suicide2: smilie.)

Hicks
06-11-2006, 11:22 AM
Why would we draft Morrison? We have 1 very good/great Small Forward waiting to happen in the next 1-3 years in Danny, and we may re-sign Peja (or perhaps if we got Adam we don't?). Even if we did let Peja go, why draft Morrison with Danny here anyway?

Tinsley for Davis makes a little sense if we're trying to replace Jack. To my knowledge, Ricky wasn't a problem in Boston, but maybe he was.

Kegboy
06-11-2006, 11:24 AM
To my knowledge, Ricky wasn't a problem in Boston, but maybe he was.

I always took that as propaganda. If he was fitting in so well, why'd they trade him for Wally?

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 11:29 AM
I always took that as propaganda. If he was fitting in so well, why'd they trade him for Wally?

To rid themselves of Blount's contract.

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 11:29 AM
Then, we could run the "Versatility" set that a lot of teams run. I'd start Adam at the 2 for offense, but let Danny play defense for the 2; the opposite for the 3. Why not? It's about putting the best players on the floor and changing your match-ups to make it work. It's too bad we can't trade anyone else for the #1, I'd love a 2-3-4 of Adam, DG, JO.

bulletproof
06-11-2006, 11:30 AM
You beat me to the punch barely, but at least I provided my opinions on it.

Ouch.

Jon Theodore
06-11-2006, 11:31 AM
im gonna need mo pete and charlie and that no 1 for jo

and they are gonna have to force minnesota to give us ricky davis and some scrub for tins/jack

Hicks
06-11-2006, 11:34 AM
*Threads merged*


Is Morrison worth the #1 pick? No. But then, nobody in this draft is worth giving up JO for.

Tinsley for Ricky? Yeah, that'll really help the locker room. :suicide: (Once again, somebody needs to make a sad suicide2 smilie.)

Just for you. :flirt:

:suicide2:
:suicide3:
:suicide4:
:suicide5: (I know, but it cracked me up with that expression)

And just because I like it and I could see Peck using it when referring to someone "being a warrior" : :paladin:

SoupIsGood
06-11-2006, 11:38 AM
Then, we could run the "Versatility" set that a lot of teams run. I'd start Adam at the 2 for offense, but let Danny play defense for the 2; the opposite for the 3.

Sounds good to me! I don't know enough about Morrison to say if it would work though.

If we had the #1, I wonder if Bird would consider that Bargani (sp) guy....

Frank Slade
06-11-2006, 11:53 AM
Wow, well I knew Larry would fall in love with Morrison but not sure how he could fit in, unless Granger switches to SG and we do not re-sign Peja ..:confused:

or is their a plan to do a sign and trade with Peja ?

Where this is smoke there is fire... would it now be safe to assume that Indiana is talking with Toronto, and JO is being shopped around ?

As others have said, I have to wonder if this just part of a different deal, or part misinformation, and that we would not be selecting Morrison, but someone else if these rumors have any truth to them.

Hicks
06-11-2006, 12:01 PM
Of course, if we're trading JO, the plan may be to have Adam at the 2, Peja at the 3, and Danny at the 4 (or something like that).

Jermaniac
06-11-2006, 12:02 PM
And finish last in the east

Sollozzo
06-11-2006, 12:04 PM
I don't understand why we just want to give O'Neal away.

Try and trade some of the garbage players we have first, put some decent players around O'Neal. If that doesn't give you results, then look to trade him next season.


Bosh and O'Neal on the same team?

Jermaniac
06-11-2006, 12:05 PM
Bosh and O'Neal on the same team?Raptors - East Champs

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 12:13 PM
I like Jon Theodore's idea. Mo Pete, CV3, and the #1 for JO. That gives us a young and promising frontcourt with DG, CV3, and Hulk. It gives us something in the backcourt where we need a lot of help. All for a player who some people in the fanbase are having many doubts about. That's not a bad deal...

pac3r5fan43v3r
06-11-2006, 12:24 PM
If we trade JO I would be so mad. Why trade a player the team is built around unless we are rebuilding.

Roy Munson
06-11-2006, 12:29 PM
I don't understand why we just want to give O'Neal away.



Cuz he's overrated. His reputation far exceeds his productivity, and his contribution to team chemistry is not very good.

317Kim
06-11-2006, 12:30 PM
:disappoin

What happened to:


Jermaine O'Neal's name already has surfaced in a number of trade rumors but Bird did his best to quash those, saying essentially the plans were to build around O'Neal, not shop him around. ?

SoupIsGood
06-11-2006, 12:36 PM
I'd trade JO if it meant we eventually got Oden, even if it means sucking so bad that we draft Oden...

Arcadian
06-11-2006, 12:43 PM
If we trade JO it had better be for an all-star. What happened to this board's hate for potential or does the hate for JO exceed that now?

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 01:06 PM
There is nothing in this article about the Pacers, but it seems like there will be a lot of trades in the next few weeks


http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/print.php?url=http://www.nypost.com/sports/trade_show_sports_peter_vecsey.htm


TRADE SHOW
By PETER VECSEY

June 11, 2006 -- HOOP DU JOUR ORLANDO - The greatly discussed, critically dissected Rafael Araujo-Kris Humphries deal featuring the Raptors and Jazz was but the first of countless trades expected before the June 28 draft and once free agents are permitted to sign two weeks into July.

It's no surprise Portland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee, New York, Toronto, Golden State, Charlotte, Utah, Phoenix, Washington, Boston and the Lakers were the biggest talkers down here during the NBA's now-concluded pre-draft camp.

Nor are the names under discussion; the only one that caught me off guard was Paul Pierce. Asked to confirm or deny that the supposed Celtic-for-life is back on the block in exchange for an elite draft pick, a certified point guard and, no doubt, another goodie or two, a team official said, "Our intention is to extend Pierce and currently we are in the process of working on that."

The exhaustively "For Sale" Blazers are anxiously willing to deal any and all of their persecuted or prosecuted players. Despite being a genuine 20-point, 10-rebound contributor when healthy, Zach Randolph - who's in and out of trouble more often than, er, Darius Miles - is readily available. Same goes for Miles, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair and, well, you take your pick.

If you take the highest-paid players, owner Paul Allen, who just enjoyed his least-losing season in the last eight ($44 million; fast approaching $700M total during that span) will arrange to include the Morose Garden as a throw-in.

An attempted restructuring of the 76ers also is in broad progress. Confronted with dwindling head counts, a failure to make the playoffs and a murky future, management is committed to rebuilding. In all likelihood, that means Allen Iverson will be sacrificed for reputable youth and numerous first-round draft picks, not a Kenyon Martin-type long-term contract.

The City of Brotherly Love still fervently feels Iverson. Still, more and more of its fans have stopped "paying" homage where it counts, at the gate. At the same time, strictly on account of A.I., the 76ers are the league's second-biggest road draw.

Denver was intensely interested in acquiring Iverson (for the above mentioned package) at trading deadline this past February. Memphis and Atlanta would be foolish not to seize the opportunity and do whatever it takes to tempt the 76ers here and now. Meanwhile, Samuel Dalembert is definite to be relocated. Despite a fairly prohibitive contract, numerous teams continue to find the 7-footer appealing. Contrary to reports, the Grizzlies don't have the slightest interest in the Jamaal Magloire, one year away from demanding unrealistic compensation for his pedestrian services.

Carlos Boozer, Baron Davis (if Mike Montgomery and his staff get their way), Brendan Haywood (at odds with Eddie Jordan for most of the season), the ever-popular Brevin Knight, pick-a-Knick, Andrew Bynum (if Phil Jackson, with only two years left to win a title, gets his way), and Kurt Thomas were on the loose lips of many down here.

As of this moment, Corey Maggette appears to have accepted his duel Clipper role of compulsive scorer as either a starter or sixth man, depending on how he's defending. Sources say at end-of-the-year meeting between Mike Dunleavy, Maggette and his agent cleared the air: There are no trade demands, the coach has the utmost respect for the player's offensive talent, and Maggette will do his best to improve on the other side of the ball.


We now interrupt our regularly scheduled programming about your New York Knickerbockers in order to bring you this special report ... The Finals resume tonight.

The Heat, who seemingly began this series the way they started the East finals - poised to pilfer home court - now find themselves with some work to do if they want to shift the scene "Dade Even."

Face it, they're not going to get off a livelier liftoff than the 70 percent (14-for-20) first-quarter fireball from the field Thursday night. Then again, one would suspect Miami would not rehash the trash (20-for-58, 34.5 percent) of Game 1's final three quadrants.

That has to be what Padre Riles is hanging his hope chest on.

That, and the fact high rising-free-agent Jason Terry (32 points-13-of-18 FG) can't continue to do to his team what Jason Williams did for his team against the Pistons.

That, and the fact Antoine Walker (12 missed shots, six turnovers) has to stop doing more for Dallas than he did when he played for the Mavericks.

"If Riley allows 'Toine to out-shoot Shaq (19-11), this series will be over quickly," underlines column contributor Joe Orofino.

Walker is plagued wit the same deadly affliction as ex-Knick Ray Williams - if he stays in the game long enough, he can win it for both sides.

Another problem for Miami is Shaq's bent (1-9) for scarring the stripe. Some of those flings hit the rim with such force, the referees were looking for a second shooter on the grassy knoll.

On the other hand, I can't see Dwyane Wade needing 25 shots to score 28 points. A quick look at the numbers shows those were the most shots he has attempted all postseason and the most in a game since April 2 against New Jersey (26).

Of course, Riley also can't count on Dirk Nowitzki aborting 10 of 14 FG attempts en route to a tepid total of 16 points, or Josh Howard misfiring on 11 of 14 while redefining the term "ill-advised."

After taking out terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, column castigator Frank Drucker reports "U.S. military officials were quick to credit high-level intelligence, decisive action and Horace Balmer."

Judging by Game 1, Miami better slow it down 1,000 or so rpms or else Shaq is gonna have nothing left for rounding out his family to an even dozen children.

"First comes the wheezing, then the fouls, then Pat Riley's hair goes from amber to gray," notes column contributor Dino Dipietro.

Tell me Mike Fratello and Riley don't go to the same hair colorist!

"Yeah," Dipietro says, "Earl Scheib!"

This just in from column contributor Joe Belfiore: Al Gore, speaking at a summit in Iceland, said the fact that the Heat have made the Finals for the first time in their history, is yet another sign of Global warming.

peter.vecsey@nypost.com

Los Angeles
06-11-2006, 01:09 PM
I'd trade JO if it meant we eventually got Oden, even if it means sucking so bad that we draft Oden...
Stop saying that.

Portland was a lock for the #1 pick, right? Wrong.

Just like the Celtics were guaranteed the #1 that would be used on Tim Duncan. (Again, they lost the #1 in the lottery, getting #3 and #4).

Sucking is never EVER worth it, because the lottery system is a disaster.

SoupIsGood
06-11-2006, 01:11 PM
Stop saying that.



No.

Los Angeles
06-11-2006, 01:12 PM
No.
Please?

:D

Sollozzo
06-11-2006, 01:13 PM
Tanking certainly doesn't guarantee a number 1 pick. Don't forget that Orlando won the first pick in the 1993 NBA draft with the worst odds in the lottery. They had a 41-41 record, same as us, but we had the tie breaker and won the 8th seed and got swept by NY.

They drafted Webber and traded him for Penny. Kinda funny, that could have been the Pacers ball and the Pacers number 1 pick if they wouldn't have had the tie breaker over Orlando.

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 01:15 PM
Here is a mention of the Pacers.


http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/basketball/14788801.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

On the NBA | This year's draft is thin on talent

By David Aldridge
Inquirer Columnist

The NBA is in its usual schizophrenic June state. While much of the public's eyes are on the two teams in the NBA Finals, most of the rest of the league is speeding up preparations for the draft, less than three weeks away. This last week marked the final major predraft camp - the old Chicago camp, now in Orlando, Fla. - and once again, there wasn't much in the way of marquee talent in attendance.

This is not the deepest draft in recent years. Most personnel types think it's about four deep, with Louisiana State forward Tyrus Thomas, Texas forward LaMarcus Aldridge, Gonzaga forward Adam Morrison, and Washington guard Brandon Roy the cream of the crop. And that's not great news for the 76ers, picking 13th overall.

"There's some kids we like, but we're definitely trying to move up," Sixers president Billy King said Friday night. "We're trying to do some things."

There were a couple of bright spots in Orlando. UCLA sophomore point guard Jordan Farmar (who has not yet hired an agent) had a very strong week, as did San Diego State forward Marcus Slaughter and South Carolina forward Renaldo Balkman. Rice junior guard Morris Almond played well Friday, the final day of the tournament.

But most teams now go to these camps to see individual players in private workouts, and to get official heights and weights of the players who will be among the top-10 picks.

According to several league sources, Villanova guard Randy Foye still is likely to be one of those first 10.

Foye has been projected as a top-10 selection by many teams all spring, and his workouts with numerous NBA teams have done nothing to dispel that forecast. Some teams have him going ninth, where Golden State is slated to pick, or 10th, the spot held by Seattle.

Though Foye has said he thinks he can play point guard in the NBA, a lot of teams project him as a shooting guard or, at best, a combo guard. That means he'd have to compete against Jason Richardson with Golden State, or Ray Allen in Seattle if drafted by either of those teams. If he becomes a pro point guard, he'd have to battle with Luke Ridnour in Seattle and teenager Monta Ellis with the Warriors.

"I was really impressed with him," one team executive said of the 6-foot-4 Foye, who's already worked out for the Celtics (who have the seventh pick in the draft), Rockets (picking eighth), Warriors, Sonics and Sixers.

"His calmness and that confidence in himself, he's seeing a different picture for himself" in the NBA, the executive said. "It was almost a borderline cockiness. In interacting with the kid, he's just cool. He likes the game."

Foye also may want to play point guard because it's a relatively weaker group this year than shooting guard - a strong bunch that includes Memphis' Rodney Carney and Arkansas' Ronnie Brewer, the son of former Razorbacks star Ron Brewer. Both Carney and Brewer could be top-10 picks, and they certainly won't slide out of the lottery group.

Temple's Mardy Collins still is thought of as a mid-first-round pick by many scouts; some believe Indiana, picking 17th, would take him if the Pacers can make a deal for incumbent point guard Jamaal Tinsley before the June 28 draft. The Washington Wizards, picking 18th, also have a strong interest in the 6-6 Collins, who ultimately could form a huge backcourt with all-star Gilbert Arenas.

La Salle forward Steven Smith has his fans as well. They like his toughness and hunger, but it's more likely that Smith will be a second-round pick, along with Villanova guard Allan Ray. Wildcats guard Kyle Lowry might sneak into the end of the first round.

The wild cards in the top half of the draft are international forward Andrea Bargnani and Duke forward Shelden Williams. Sources said that Williams has pulled out of scheduled workouts with teams in the second half of the top 10 - including Minnesota, which picks sixth - indicating that a team in the top five has made a commitment to Williams that it will take him.

Bargnani has been rumored to be Toronto's choice with the top pick, but many teams think that's a smoke screen. They believe that the Raptors don't want to take Bargnani with the first selection. The Raptors would have to convince skeptics who wonder whether Bargnani is ready to play right now - a group that includes Toronto's own all-star forward, Chris Bosh.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Los Angeles
06-11-2006, 01:27 PM
Temple's Mardy Collins still is thought of as a mid-first-round pick by many scouts; some believe Indiana, picking 17th, would take him if the Pacers can make a deal for incumbent point guard Jamaal Tinsley before the June 28 draft. The Washington Wizards, picking 18th, also have a strong interest in the 6-6 Collins, who ultimately could form a huge backcourt with all-star Gilbert Arenas.
Didn't I hear that Tinsley's BYC status will not be removed until July?
--- Edited Follow-Up ---
Here it is:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=412413


From what I've been told the Pacers made the offer . McHale is still undecided on the direction he wants to go. I'm told Bird has talked to several teams in the 6-12 range . McHale gave up a lot to get Jaric a #1 and Cassell.

Personally I think the Pacers will either have to sweeten the offer somehow or settle for a pick a little lower down.

But I'm told Bird has 2 players he really likes and is trying a few different combination offers to move up , the Hornets hold 2 picks ahead of the Pacers 12 and 15. I'm told Bird thinks either they or the Bulls at #16 have their eyes on at least 1 of the 2 he desires and may also be trying to move up.

It should get very interesting in the next 2-3 weeks as for Tinsley BYC I was told that on July 12th that lable is removed.

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 01:29 PM
Just because Tinsley is BYC, that does not mean he can't be traded.

Will Galen
06-11-2006, 01:52 PM
:disappoin

What happened to: Quote:
Jermaine O'Neal's name already has surfaced in a number of trade rumors but Bird did his best to quash those, saying essentially the plans were to build around O'Neal, not shop him around.

?

Chad Ford came up with a trade idea and like always the Internet has jumped all over it. People are now reporting their own versions.

Bball
06-11-2006, 01:57 PM
I don't understand why we just want to give O'Neal away.

Try and trade some of the garbage players we have first, put some decent players around O'Neal. If that doesn't give you results, then look to trade him next season.


Bosh and O'Neal on the same team?

2 things could be happening here...

1- The media and certain fans could just be ASSUMING the Pacers are shopping JO because JO has not exactly met expectations and has a rather high salary. So, it's all speculation and guessing fueling these scenarios.

or

2- The Pacers are signaling they would trade JO and accepting calls. So if you have something, you best make your offer if you would like to have JO.

-Bball

Los Angeles
06-11-2006, 02:14 PM
Just because Tinsley is BYC, that does not mean he can't be traded.
NO. of course not. I was one of the few that wanted him traded for a lesser paid player with a shorter contract all season long.

Lord Helmet
06-11-2006, 02:23 PM
I'd trade JO if it meant we eventually got Oden, even if it means sucking so bad that we draft Oden...
Are we even for sure Oden will come out of college, and enter the draft? I've heard that he will stay in for 4 years.

TBH, I don't want to just tank next year either, screw that.

Young
06-11-2006, 03:03 PM
Why would we draft Morrison? We have 1 very good/great Small Forward waiting to happen in the next 1-3 years in Danny, and we may re-sign Peja (or perhaps if we got Adam we don't?). Even if we did let Peja go, why draft Morrison with Danny here anyway?

I said in another thread don't be suprised if Bird has his eyes on Adam Morrison, of course this could be a smoke screen, I still think Bird would love to get his hands on Morrison.

Anyways I think that Morrison makes perfect sense for the Pacers.

Yes he plays the same position as Danny, but if either of them can guard the 2s than it would work, or even if the Pacers wanted Danny at the 4 ala Shawn Marion in Phoenix. So I wouldn't be to worried about Adam and Danny playing together.

I think that there are a lot of reasons why Bird loves Morrison. Just take a look at nbadraft.nets profile on him. I think that it is pretty accurate.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/adammorrison.asp

I'm sure a lot of you will be quick to point out his flaws, but what I want to point out is this:

"Has great anticipation and basketball understanding ... Great intangibles, competes and inspires others to play hard ... Hard worker ... Plays with great intensity and aggressiveness ... Fundamentally solid, does all the little things to help his team win ... A true competitor. Will not back down from anyone ... Wants to take the big shot ...Great leadership ability ..."

Reading his profile makes him sound like Reggie Miller.

Anways I would not be mad if we got Adam Morrison. Even if it is giving up JO. But that's just me.

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 03:28 PM
I said in another thread don't be suprised if Bird has his eyes on Adam Morrison, of course this could be a smoke screen, I still think Bird would love to get his hands on Morrison.

Anyways I think that Morrison makes perfect sense for the Pacers.

Yes he plays the same position as Danny, but if either of them can guard the 2s than it would work, or even if the Pacers wanted Danny at the 4 ala Shawn Marion in Phoenix. So I wouldn't be to worried about Adam and Danny playing together.

I think that there are a lot of reasons why Bird loves Morrison. Just take a look at nbadraft.nets profile on him. I think that it is pretty accurate.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/adammorrison.asp

I'm sure a lot of you will be quick to point out his flaws, but what I want to point out is this:

"Has great anticipation and basketball understanding ... Great intangibles, competes and inspires others to play hard ... Hard worker ... Plays with great intensity and aggressiveness ... Fundamentally solid, does all the little things to help his team win ... A true competitor. Will not back down from anyone ... Wants to take the big shot ...Great leadership ability ..."

Reading his profile makes him sound like Reggie Miller.

Anways I would not be mad if we got Adam Morrison. Even if it is giving up JO. But that's just me.

That almost made me want to cry reading that. I really want Morrison.

Gamble
06-11-2006, 03:52 PM
So your saying that if teams go small ball on us we will be able to guard
them with slow lateral Morrison and a true small foreward in Danny.

I saw enough over the last 3 years of our guy's being swapped around
like they were Magic J.

Tim
06-11-2006, 04:24 PM
Well whatever happens they better not screw with Granger.

BoomBaby31
06-11-2006, 04:32 PM
That almost made me want to cry reading that. I really want Morrison.

Me too. This would clear cap space, and I believe Bird could make Morrison a VERY VERY VERY good player in the NBA. This guy does it all most importantly he is always hussling for rebounds, not scared to take a shot, has enough confidence but , it's not an ego. That means we would get the first pick and 17th pick. I'll take it, and we will have enough money to sign Mohhamed and anyone on the market. We should do it. PLEASE I'm stoked about the idea. On top of all of that maybe we could fill the stadium 75% of the time with a young Bird like player.

The Ricky Davis idea, I just don't think he would fit in Jackson, Tins, and Davis would eat each other up in the locerrroom.

microwave_oven
06-11-2006, 04:34 PM
When teams play small, they typically play a box zone with a "roamer" to guard the paint and double the big men. If Indiana decides to go small, a line-up of Morrison and Granger would be a perfect fit for the forwards. We would need penetrating guards, however and a big man who can run. That big man is JO. We still need an inside presence reguardless of who we draft. There just aren't many available that are better than JO. If this deal involved Bosh, then I would be all for it, but chances are, it isn't. Personally I believe that it is a smokescreen.

Pacersfan.
06-11-2006, 04:39 PM
Wow, Larry and Donnie really are working the lines. It'd be hard to see J.O. in another uniform, but if it helps the team then they should go for it.

BoomBaby31
06-11-2006, 04:43 PM
When teams play small, they typically play a box zone with a "roamer" to guard the paint and double the big men. If Indiana decides to go small, a line-up of Morrison and Granger would be a perfect fit for the forwards. We would need penetrating guards, however and a big man who can run. That big man is JO. We still need an inside presence reguardless of who we draft. There just aren't many available that are better than JO. If this deal involved Bosh, then I would be all for it, but chances are, it isn't. Personally I believe that it is a smokescreen.

As bad as I want it I doubt it goes through. If the deal did involve Bosh even if the Raptors act like they are interested Walsh should do anything and everything to get Bosh and the Number one. I say trade Jax, JO, Tinsley for Bosh and Number 1. Sign Mohhamed then we are set to compete for the championship this coming year.

AJ/Sauras/eddie (hopefully Farmar at 17 projected he will go late)
Morrison/Granger
Peja/ Coshere
Bosh/Foster
Mohhamed/ Harrison

If this line up would pan out we'd have a real european/indiana/hoosier style of play. Alot of jump shooting and team ball would love to see it. This roster would be my ultimate wet dream lol.

Gamble
06-11-2006, 04:58 PM
AJ/Sauras/eddie (hopefully Farmar at 17 projected he will go late)
Morrison/Granger
Peja/ Coshere
Bosh/Foster
Mohhamed/ Harrison

If this line up would pan out we'd have a real european/indiana/hoosier style of play. Alot of jump shooting and team ball would love to see it. This roster would be my ultimate wet dream lol.

Farmar is projected to go to Philly at the 13th spot by NBAdraftnet.
They show us taking Ronnie Brewer which I guess is what most people
would like to see happen.

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 05:26 PM
Some interesting discussion on Raptors forum

They don't seem to value JO very highly. I mean, please. They act like they are doing us a favor by taking JO. Oh wait, someone just said that. These must be hockey fans in disguise

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=524003&sid=b842cfd8614ac87e2d7123145efe12d7

Fireball Kid
06-11-2006, 05:26 PM
As bad as I want it I doubt it goes through. If the deal did involve Bosh even if the Raptors act like they are interested Walsh should do anything and everything to get Bosh and the Number one. I say trade Jax, JO, Tinsley for Bosh and Number 1. Sign Mohhamed then we are set to compete for the championship this coming year.

AJ/Sauras/eddie (hopefully Farmar at 17 projected he will go late)
Morrison/Granger
Peja/ Coshere
Bosh/Foster
Mohhamed/ Harrison

If this line up would pan out we'd have a real european/indiana/hoosier style of play. Alot of jump shooting and team ball would love to see it. This roster would be my ultimate wet dream lol.

Only in your fantasys.

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 05:31 PM
I'd like to see Farmar here myself.

As for the Toronto trade, I'm all for it myself. I think JO is a very good player, and with him losing the extra 15 lbs., I think he'll be healthy for the season. I wouldn't mind at all keeping JO, honestly. But, if this deal is on the table, I take it because it gives us an amazing young team to work with. Come on, Morrison, DG, CV3, and Hulk? Then, if we really could get Farmar at 17, or even another young PG, we'd have an entire team of very young, very talented players to look forward to. Maybe it means struggling for a year, but guys like DG and Morrison are very mature, CV3 will be coming off a surprisingly good rookie season, and Hulk would have the minutes to really blossom instead of being stuck behind Foster.

Farmar
Morrison
Granger
Villanueva
Harrison

Sign me up!

Only problem is why would Toronto want JO and Bosh, unless they plan on using JO at C. Oh yeah, and the fact that Farmar wouldn't be there at 17 anyways.

SoupIsGood
06-11-2006, 06:04 PM
I'd like to see Farmar here myself.

As for the Toronto trade, I'm all for it myself. I think JO is a very good player, and with him losing the extra 15 lbs., I think he'll be healthy for the season. I wouldn't mind at all keeping JO, honestly. But, if this deal is on the table, I take it because it gives us an amazing young team to work with. Come on, Morrison, DG, CV3, and Hulk? Then, if we really could get Farmar at 17, or even another young PG, we'd have an entire team of very young, very talented players to look forward to. Maybe it means struggling for a year, but guys like DG and Morrison are very mature, CV3 will be coming off a surprisingly good rookie season, and Hulk would have the minutes to really blossom instead of being stuck behind Foster.

Farmar
Morrison
Granger
Villanueva
Harrison

Sign me up!

Only problem is why would Toronto want JO and Bosh, unless they plan on using JO at C. Oh yeah, and the fact that Farmar wouldn't be there at 17 anyways.

Sounds good to me.

I really like JO, but I've come to really doubt our ability to contend while he is in his prime. He's going to be like KG is now, wasting away on a team that never contends.

We're way over the cap, and have almost no good trading pieces. Peja might have been if his contract lasted one year longer. Jax? Tins? Jeff? AJ? I have a hard time thinking that we'll be able to trade those guys for the teammates that JO will need to really contend for a title.

I would rather do JO a favor and not waste his prime years. And also not waste our team's time with years of being average.


Youth movement time! :sunshine:

Robertmto
06-11-2006, 06:21 PM
If DW is really looking to do this it can only mean two things.

1. Peja is not going to be re-signed and Morrison/DG/ and CV3 will all be starting. Morrison or DG @ the 2. The other plays the wing. CV3 is the 4 and Hulk is our center.

Now here is what I see happeneing.

2. Peja gets S&T for a solid big man. Magloire and Dalembert and Bynum are all on the block. Among others. That would mean any of these players could be 6th man Morrison, DG, CV3, or Hulk. The Pacers would be a hell of a team then.

Roaming Gnome
06-11-2006, 06:57 PM
:puke: :suicide: :suicide2:

This deal with Toronto...sucks and is not worth it!

Anxiety
06-11-2006, 07:44 PM
Mark my words, Toronto is NOT going to trade #1 pick and Bosh for JO. Last summer or so they turned down Bosh for JO so what makes you think they would do it now AND include #1?

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 07:52 PM
I don't think we thought they would.

dynamis22
06-11-2006, 08:00 PM
Pizza Guy, your SL looks good to me.

However, I would rather see:

Pg: Sergio Rodriguez
sg: Morrison
sf: Granger/Peja
pf: Cv3
c: Harrison

Now that lineup would be exciting to watch and see progress.

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 08:02 PM
Pizza Guy, your SL looks good to me.

However, I would rather see:

Pg: Sergio Rodriguez
sg: Morrison
sf: Granger/Peja
pf: Cv3
c: Harrison

Now that lineup would be exciting to watch and see progress.



Morrison is not a shooting guard, just imagine him trying to guard a shooting guard. he won't be able to guard small forwards either, but

If the pacers have any interest in Morrison that must mean Peja is gone, because there is no reason what-so-ever to have them both. You simply cannot have two poor defenders like that and expect to be a good team

Young
06-11-2006, 08:06 PM
So your saying that if teams go small ball on us we will be able to guard
them with slow lateral Morrison and a true small foreward in Danny.

I saw enough over the last 3 years of our guy's being swapped around
like they were Magic J.

I'm assuming you were talking about what I posted, if not i'm sorry, i'll be making an *** of myself soon.

But I never said that we would be able to guard quick guys with Morrison. Its up to Bird to decide that.

Even if Morrison can't guard quick guys, they said that about Reggie, he became a decent defender. Morrison has the right mindset, just not the right tools.

dynamis22
06-11-2006, 08:07 PM
Morrison is not a shooting guard, just imagine him trying to guard a shooting guard. he won't be able to guard small forwards either, but

If the pacers have any interest in Morrison that must mean Peja is gone, because there is no reason what-so-ever to have them both. You simply cannot have two poor defenders like that and expect to be a good team

On that note, Sergio is apparently a bad defender too. However, both he and Peja are willing defenders. As I have stated before we would be playing a lot of zone- ala - Euro style. I might be crazy, but i don't think Larry would mind having two sharpshooters on the roster regardless of their defensive liability. Morrison at 2 might be a stretch, but if this trade did go through I honestly believe that is where Larry envisions him.

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 08:09 PM
I've discussed how I would play them both (DG/Morrison) in either this thread of another.

Play Morrison @ 2 for offense, and DG @ 2 for defense; switching them for matchups. Maybe Morrison's not the quickest guy, but then there's team defense to help out there.

Rodriguez would be good too, but I've got a thing for Farmar. Not sure why, but I do.

dynamis22
06-11-2006, 08:14 PM
I've discussed how I would play them both (DG/Morrison) in either this thread of another.

Play Morrison @ 2 for offense, and DG @ 2 for defense; switching them for matchups. Maybe Morrison's not the quickest guy, but then there's team defense to help out there.

Rodriguez would be good too, but I've got a thing for Farmar. Not sure why, but I do.

I actually like Farmar too. The way he led UCLA back against Gonzaga sold me on him. However, this time last year NBAdraft.net had Sergio as the 3rd overall pick and I think he would be a steal.

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 08:21 PM
Not sure which of these two threads to put this in

But Bosh who is on NBATV talking about the NBA Finals for these two weeks was just on and Bill Walton brought the rumor up, Bosh just kinda laughed and they moved on to other things.

I only bring this up because it is interesting that BW would mention it unless. Seems like it is everywhere. Doesn't mean it's going to happen though

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 08:27 PM
It seems to really have something to it. Like you said, who knows if it happens though? I'm still all about CV31/#1 for JO/#17 though, I'd do it.

Robertmto
06-11-2006, 09:11 PM
Not sure which of these two threads to put this in

But Bosh who is on NBATV talking about the NBA Finals for these two weeks was just on and Bill Walton brought the rumor up, Bosh just kinda laughed and they moved on to other things.

I only bring this up because it is interesting that BW would mention it unless. Seems like it is everywhere. Doesn't mean it's going to happen though

Well I think that proves that it's not just some internet message board rumor...

BlueNGold
06-11-2006, 09:18 PM
I'd do this in a heartbeat if I were Toronto. Imagine Bosh and JO on the block. Don't they also have Jalen Rose and Joey Graham behind CV at SF? Joey has a real strong body and is a great competitor. Jalen is still only about 33...so he probably would be a solid backup. Their front court will be awesome if this happens. They will destroy us next year if this happens.

The Pacers benefit mainly from unloading a huge, bloated contract. There is no way we get better from this trade, at least for a few years. Maybe TPTB are planning for 3-4 years out.

Robertmto
06-11-2006, 09:30 PM
I'd do this in a heartbeat if I were Toronto. Imagine Bosh and JO on the block. Don't they also have Jalen Rose and Joey Graham behind CV at SF? Joey has a real strong body and is a great competitor. Jalen is still only about 33...so he probably would be a solid backup. Their front court will be awesome if this happens. They will destroy us next year if this happens.

The Pacers benefit mainly from unloading a huge, bloated contract. There is no way we get better from this trade, at least for a few years. Maybe TPTB are planning for 3-4 years out.

Jalen is in NY.

Anthem
06-11-2006, 09:35 PM
I'd do this in a heartbeat if I were Toronto.
I don't think that was ever in question.

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 09:47 PM
Well over on RealGM the Rap fans are all up in arms about how CV is the next coming of MJ.

Robertmto
06-11-2006, 09:51 PM
Well over on RealGM the Rap fans are all up in arms about how CV is the next coming of MJ.

:pity:

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 10:02 PM
Why am I a fool? Go over and read on realgm if you don't believe they swear CV will be just as good as JO. (If you are saying the Raps fans are the fools then I apologize for the misunderstanding), otherwise wtf?

Robertmto
06-11-2006, 10:07 PM
Why am I a fool? Go over and read on realgm if you don't believe they swear CV will be just as good as JO. (If you are saying the Raps fans are the fools then I apologize for the misunderstanding), otherwise wtf?

Yea i was talkin about the fans. lol.

indytoad
06-11-2006, 10:23 PM
The one thing I do like about this trade is that it finally gives us that player who looks like an alien, which we've been missing ever since Reggie left.

IndyToad
Taking a lot more

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 10:26 PM
Yea i was talkin about the fans. lol.

My bad lol.

Will Galen
06-11-2006, 10:30 PM
Pacers management doesn't think we are that far away. Trading JO isn't going to happen. All we need is a good draft and a couple trades, and above all to stay relatively healthy, and we will be in the hunt.

I like speculation as well as the next guy, probably more, but this was started by Chad Ford in his blog when he asked, "Would Larry Bird trade Jermaine O'Neal for the No. 1 pick, Villanueva and cap relief?"

Then a few days later ESPN'S Andy Katz in his blog said, "The hot rumor among the NBA personnel in the Milkhouse Gym on Thursday was Indiana shipping the No. 17 pick and Jermaine O'Neal to Toronto for the No. 1 pick and Charlie Villanueva."

It wasn't a rumor. All it was is NBA people discussing Chad Ford's idea. Andy just changed it a bit by adding our 17th pick and calling it a rumor.

A few days later RealGM gets into the act by repeating it again, (1st post above) but there's nothing to it. No smoke, no fire, nothing! You got all these people writing about the NBA on the Internet and this is a great example of how rumors start and are perpetuated.

You people that are going to be disappointed when this doesn't happen have only yourselves to blame! What's more if we have another bad year someone from the anti management crowd will get on here and complain that Bird should have pulled the trigger on this trade. Heehaw!

Unclebuck
06-11-2006, 10:32 PM
I'd do this in a heartbeat if I were Toronto.


If you read Raptors forum on RealGM.com. you would learn that JO is a vastly overrated, overpaid, always injured headcase and they would be doing us a favor just taking him off our hands. A lot of the Raptors fan appear to be saying they wouldn't take JO's contract for anything.

Maybe they have watched too much hockey

indytoad
06-11-2006, 10:34 PM
Pacers management doesn't think we are that far away. Trading JO isn't going to happen. All we need is a good draft and a couple trades, and above all to stay relatively healthy, and we will be in the hunt.

If they think that, they need to be fired. Immediately.

IndyToad
Intimidated

Anthem
06-11-2006, 10:38 PM
The following post is a joke. But it's funny.

-------

JO/AJ/Lorbek to Toronto for CharlieV/MoPete/Graham/E.Williams/#1 (Morrison)
--
Jax/#1 (Morrison) to Portland for Skinner/Jack/#4(LaM.Ald.)
--
Tinsley to Minny for #6 (Roy)
--
Foster/Graham/#47 to Milwaukee for Magloire.
--
Draft Marty Collins at #17
------
Total trades would be JO / Foster / Lorbek / AJ / Jax / Tinsley for:

Charlie V / MoPete / J.Graham / Jack / Skinner / E.Williams and the #4 and #6 picks. We'd keep the #17, and we'd draft LaMarcus A / Brandon Roy / Mardy Collins. Plus we'd clear about about $20 mil off the cap, with another $18mil coming off at the end of the year.

Mags / Hulk / LaM
Charlie V / Skinner / Croshere
Peja / Granger / E.Williams
Roy / MoPete
Saras / Jack / Collins

That team's not as good on paper as the current team, but I bet the state would get behind them. And the Pacers would have a lot more flexibility to improve the team in the future.
---------------
Obviously, it would never happen in a million years (although no individual piece is unreasonable). But it was a fun exercise to pull together.

Trader Joe
06-11-2006, 10:40 PM
If you read Raptors forum on RealGM.com. you would learn that JO is a vastly overrated, overpaid, always injured headcase and they would be doing us a favor just taking him off our hands. A lot of the Raptors fan appear to be saying they wouldn't take JO's contract for anything.

Maybe they have watched too much hockey

Yeah the weirdest part about it to me was that they would think JO is such a headcase. What has he done (brawl aside) except be a model citizen off the court in Indiana?

Sollozzo
06-11-2006, 10:50 PM
Sounds good to me.

I really like JO, but I've come to really doubt our ability to contend while he is in his prime. He's going to be like KG is now, wasting away on a team that never contends.

We're way over the cap, and have almost no good trading pieces. Peja might have been if his contract lasted one year longer. Jax? Tins? Jeff? AJ? I have a hard time thinking that we'll be able to trade those guys for the teammates that JO will need to really contend for a title.

I would rather do JO a favor and not waste his prime years. And also not waste our team's time with years of being average.


Youth movement time! :sunshine:


Yes, because youth movement worked so well when the Pacers did it last time around. :rolleyes:

Haven't you learned something from watching the playoffs? It's smart veterans that make the difference. Players like Stackhouse, Payton, JWill, Walker, McDyess, Horry, hell, Lindsey Hunter. Those are the type of players you surround a player like JO with. Those are the players who win you games.

I'm not the biggest JO fan. I'd trade him if a sweet deal came along. I have doubts if he can lead the Pacers to a title or not. But definitely not this deal. I'm willing to give JO the benefit of the doubt if the managament can swing some deals for some competent veterans instead of immature clowns. If that doesn't work, then I would definitely look into trading JO next offseason.

pizza guy
06-11-2006, 11:09 PM
Yes, because youth movement worked so well when the Pacers did it last time around. :rolleyes:

Haven't you learned something from watching the playoffs? It's smart veterans that make the difference. Players like Stackhouse, Payton, JWill, Walker, McDyess, Horry, hell, Lindsey Hunter. Those are the type of players you surround a player like JO with. Those are the players who win you games.

I'm not the biggest JO fan. I'd trade him if a sweet deal came along. I have doubts if he can lead the Pacers to a title or not. But definitely not this deal. I'm willing to give JO the benefit of the doubt if the managament can swing some deals for some competent veterans instead of immature clowns. If that doesn't work, then I would definitely look into trading JO next offseason.

Here's the difference. The youth movement we tried was full of clowns. This youth movement would not be. DG, Morrison, CV31? Not clowns but three very good, promising players. As for vets being the winning ingredient, I'll agree to an extent - all vets start out as rookies.

SoupIsGood
06-11-2006, 11:47 PM
Yes, because youth movement worked so well when the Pacers did it last time around. :rolleyes:

Haven't you learned something from watching the playoffs? It's smart veterans that make the difference. Players like Stackhouse, Payton, JWill, Walker, McDyess, Horry, hell, Lindsey Hunter. Those are the type of players you surround a player like JO with. Those are the players who win you games.

I'm not the biggest JO fan. I'd trade him if a sweet deal came along. I have doubts if he can lead the Pacers to a title or not. But definitely not this deal. I'm willing to give JO the benefit of the doubt if the managament can swing some deals for some competent veterans instead of immature clowns. If that doesn't work, then I would definitely look into trading JO next offseason.

Urgh.

Peck
06-12-2006, 12:18 AM
If they think that, they need to be fired. Immediately.

IndyToad
Intimidated


Thank you.

SoupIsGood
06-12-2006, 12:22 AM
Thank you.

But we ARE close.

Close to being a really good team.

A great team? Prolly not.

That's what I think anyway. I'll have to see the moves they make though.

Bball
06-12-2006, 01:03 AM
But we ARE close.

Close to being a really good team.

If you define 'good' as 'mediocre' then we are certainly close to that. We're looking up at it right now, but we're close if we make some tweaks and play it conservatively.


-Bball

rexnom
06-12-2006, 07:42 AM
I want to just go on the record and say that I think this is a poor trade. I think JO will get healthy now that he is at his real playing weight and position an I think he will come back to dominate as before.

I also think that there is no way this is happening. Yay on the youth movement thinking but why would TPTB trade for Peja and talk all this talk about signing him and keeping him. I refuse to believe that we would ever let Peja go like that...just to clear cap space. And if we don't let him go, it's a waste because the man's prime years are now.

I honestly don't think we are that far away that we need to have a firesale or blow this team up. We aren't close yet. BUT if we make some good trades here and there and get lucky again in the draft, we'd be at least a 50-win team.

Also, Will Galen is totally right. Isn't it curious that something that Chad Ford made up not one week ago is now all of a sudden a "hot rumor"? I call BS on Andy Katz and ESPN. They made this up. That's all it is. Where's Jermaniac at?

Shade
06-12-2006, 09:42 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/40870/20060611/pacers_and_raptors_talk_oneal_trade/

The Pacers (http://pacers.realgm.com/) reportedly have discussed a trade with Toronto (http://raptors.realgm.com/) that would send Jermaine O’Neal to the Raptors (http://raptors.realgm.com/) for a package that would include the No. 1 pick.

The Pacers, according to Mark Murphy, would likely take Adam Morrison.

Indiana may also be talking with the Timberwolves (http://timberwolves.realgm.com/) about a Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/105/jamaal_tinsley/)-for-Ricky Davis (http://www.realgm.com/src_playerfile/272/ricky_davis/) deal.

This has Bird's stink all over it.

If we do this, like I said before, it's back to Lottery Land.

As for the Wolves trade...isn't Davis just Artest Lite?

Anxiety
06-12-2006, 10:14 AM
I want to just go on the record and say that I think this is a poor trade. I think JO will get healthy now that he is at his real playing weight and position an I think he will come back to dominate as before.

I also think that there is no way this is happening. Yay on the youth movement thinking but why would TPTB trade for Peja and talk all this talk about signing him and keeping him. I refuse to believe that we would ever let Peja go like that...just to clear cap space. And if we don't let him go, it's a waste because the man's prime years are now.

I honestly don't think we are that far away that we need to have a firesale or blow this team up. We aren't close yet. BUT if we make some good trades here and there and get lucky again in the draft, we'd be at least a 50-win team.

Also, Will Galen is totally right. Isn't it curious that something that Chad Ford made up not one week ago is now all of a sudden a "hot rumor"? I call BS on Andy Katz and ESPN. They made this up. That's all it is. Where's Jermaniac at?

In addition as far as I recall JO did not want to play 5 for the PAcers so why would he wanna do that for the Raptors?

Jermaniac
06-12-2006, 05:10 PM
I want to just go on the record and say that I think this is a poor trade. I think JO will get healthy now that he is at his real playing weight and position an I think he will come back to dominate as before.

I also think that there is no way this is happening. Yay on the youth movement thinking but why would TPTB trade for Peja and talk all this talk about signing him and keeping him. I refuse to believe that we would ever let Peja go like that...just to clear cap space. And if we don't let him go, it's a waste because the man's prime years are now.

I honestly don't think we are that far away that we need to have a firesale or blow this team up. We aren't close yet. BUT if we make some good trades here and there and get lucky again in the draft, we'd be at least a 50-win team.

Also, Will Galen is totally right. Isn't it curious that something that Chad Ford made up not one week ago is now all of a sudden a "hot rumor"? I call BS on Andy Katz and ESPN. They made this up. That's all it is. Where's Jermaniac at?

I'm right here, am I needed for something?