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Lnjcarp
06-09-2006, 02:33 PM
Hey,

I just saw over on the RATS board a rumor that was posted by "indy_dave00" (I think he also posts on here as diamond dave). He says:

"I've heard a whisper of discussions between Larry Bird and Kevin McHale on a trade. Pacers would send Jamaal Tinsley and pick #17 to the T'Wolves for over paid combo guard Marko Jaric and pick #6.

Both players signed 5 year deals last summer Jaric's is slightly less than Tinsley's. Not sure how close the deal is to occurring or if it will but it has been discussed."

I hadn't seen any discussion of this yet and I know that he has been a reliable poster in the past. Just thought I would see what you guys thought of the idea.

-LNjcarp

Young
06-09-2006, 02:35 PM
Wow that would be a great trade for us. I mentioned trading Tinsley for Jaric straight up before, but man getting the 6th pick too would be great.

J_2_Da_IzzO
06-09-2006, 02:36 PM
I love the number 6 pick but Jaric is not all that good to be honest. I think he could learn to take a back seat and try get other players involved better and to be honest Id rather have a playing Jaric then a injured Tinsley.

Kegboy
06-09-2006, 02:37 PM
I like Jamaal, and I don't even see why Minny would do this.

tdubb03
06-09-2006, 02:41 PM
If this trade goes down, there'd be no denying the fact that Indy's going to euroball style.

Starting 5 (if I were Carlisle):
PG: Saras (I hear nothing but great things about him at the 1, time Rick lets him show it)
SG: Jax (if he's still here)/Roy (keeping my fingers crossed)
SF: Peja
PF: JO
C: Foster

Seriously, that could be a GREAT line-up.

Los Angeles
06-09-2006, 02:43 PM
If DD00 posts this here, I'll consider it up for discussion.

Unfortuantely, we have had a history of trouble makers who like to pose as "insiders" on other forums just to get a kick out of watching PD light up like a christmas tree.

Can anyone confirm that Indy_Dave is actually DD00? If so, why has he only shared the info there and not here?

Lnjcarp
06-09-2006, 02:44 PM
I like it simply from the standpoint that we move up 11 spots in the draft. Anything we get from Jaric would be a bonus in my opinion because Tinsley's recent contributions add up to basically nothing.

blanket
06-09-2006, 02:51 PM
If DD00 posts this here, I'll consider it up for discussion.

Unfortuantely, we have had a history of trouble makers who like to pose as "insiders" on other forums just to get a kick out of watching PD light up like a christmas tree.

Can anyone confirm that Indy_Dave is actually DD00? If so, why has he only shared the info there and not here?

He already has:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=412231&postcount=34

NuffSaid
06-09-2006, 02:58 PM
I'd be very surprised if the T-wolves gave this guy up. His stats are better than McCants and are nearly on par with Tinsley's. I see no clear cut advantage for the T-wolves in making this trade. It would, however, provide the Pacers with a stronger, healthier guard in the backcourt.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-09-2006, 03:02 PM
This is not true. Larry, Donnie, and I stand behind Jamaal and believe he is our PG of the future.

tdubb03
06-09-2006, 03:02 PM
Don't forget guys, the Wolves drafted Bracey Wright and are turning him into a PG!

:whoknows:

Ultimate Frisbee
06-09-2006, 03:05 PM
Man, it would be so sweet if we could get Roy (or whoever falls because someone drafts him earlier)

Slick Pinkham
06-09-2006, 03:07 PM
I like it for the fact that you can get a very good player at #6 but not at #17.

I'm not sure that Jaric adds anything, but at least he can play the 2 so...


if Jax happens to still be around and acts like an idiot, there would be an option other than going small with Fred (if he is back) or playing a PG at the 2, which sucks because we have no PGs who can defend 2 guards.

This would be a good deal IMO even if Jaric never plays.

Los Angeles
06-09-2006, 03:10 PM
He already has:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=412231&postcount=34
Right on.

Thanks!

Shade
06-09-2006, 03:39 PM
Jaric would be an albatross of sorts, but that #6 pick is tempting.

circlecitysportsfan
06-09-2006, 03:52 PM
I already posted my thoughts on that tread. No way the T'Wolves do this. If we had Jaric and the 6th, would you trade it for Tinsley and the 17th? I hate NBA forums in the summer.

VF21
06-09-2006, 03:52 PM
Whew.

I saw "Minnesota/Indiana rumor" and got scared for a minute.

;)

Anthem
06-09-2006, 03:58 PM
You've got to think that Minny would want at least the #17 pick in return.

It's hard to judge Tinsley's value to the rest of the league. The injuries are a huge turnoff, but when he's on the guy is ON.

Obviously, we'd do that trade in a heartbeat. But I can't see Minny doing it.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-09-2006, 04:06 PM
You've got to think that Minny would want at least the #17 pick in return.

It's hard to judge Tinsley's value to the rest of the league. The injuries are a huge turnoff, but when he's on the guy is ON.

Obviously, we'd do that trade in a heartbeat. But I can't see Minny doing it.

According to this rumor they do

#17 and Tins for #6 an Jaric

ChicagoJ
06-09-2006, 04:08 PM
I like Jaric; I don't think LA or Minnesota have really used him the right way.

I'm not a big fan of trading Tinsley, but I'd do this.

microwave_oven
06-09-2006, 04:10 PM
Yes to this, no to the JO trade.

beast23
06-09-2006, 04:20 PM
I like Jaric; I don't think LA or Minnesota have really used him the right way.

I'm not a big fan of trading Tinsley, but I'd do this.
I am an absolutely huge fan of trading Tinsley. And I would definitely do this. :laugh:

Jaric will probably never be the distributor Tinsley is, but he is a much better defender. He's also able to play both guard positions. The only weekness of this trade is that, unless Saras pans out, the Pacers will not have a decent half-court distributor available.

ChicagoJ
06-09-2006, 04:23 PM
I'll have to think about this - I might be okay with starting Jaric at PG and backing him up with Saras.

We would need to match Jaric and Saras with a very, very good/ quick perimeter defender who could shoot a decent percentage and not turn the ball over. So none of our existing SGs (nor Granger, he's not quick enough) would qualify.

But I'm on-record as being in favor of having six new guards next season anyway.

Hicks
06-09-2006, 04:27 PM
I'd do it.

Lord Helmet
06-09-2006, 04:44 PM
I'd do it, too. Tinsley will most likely be sitting on the bench next year with his sinuses. We'd be kicking ourselves once again if we don't do this.

Leisure Suit Larry
06-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Well it's not going to happen

Anthem
06-09-2006, 04:58 PM
It seems like it would make more sense to play Jaric at the backup 2. Give him Fred's spot and let Fred walk.

Evan_The_Dude
06-09-2006, 04:59 PM
I'm not a fan of Jaric, but if he becomes a better player it sure would be nice to have a 6'7" point guard...

Los Angeles
06-09-2006, 05:05 PM
I like Jaric; I don't think LA or Minnesota have really used him the right way.

I'm not a big fan of trading Tinsley, but I'd do this.
Sorry, Jay. But Carlisle isn't exactly known for using his guards according to their talents and capabilities. Don't expect that to change with Jaric.

Skaut_Ech
06-09-2006, 05:05 PM
I like Jaric; I don't think LA or Minnesota have really used him the right way.

I'm not a big fan of trading Tinsley, but I'd do this.

I agree, Jay. Matter of fact, I think the accessment of Jaric on Hoopshype is spot on. (http://www.hoopshype.com/players/marko_jaric.htm)

First and foremost, he's been forced into a PG role and that's just not in his comfort zone. Jaric pretty much payed SG/SF most of his life. They saw his size in the NBA and figured they'd try an make him a big PG. That just ain't him.

I've found myself recently championing Jaric's cause, because, quite frankly, I think a lot of people who spout off about him, don't really know what he can do and his style of play. If nothing else, THIS should stand out to you:

Ranks #19 in the NBA in Steals Per Game(1.44)
Ranks #19 in the NBA in Steals(108.0)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Steals Per Turnover(0.85)
Ranks #7 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(2.47)

The key, to me, is do NOT make him a PG. Let him be a SG. Spot minutes at SF. And that's it.

He's always played best at off-guard, not running the show.

I know I soulnd like a broken record and I tend to hold up Chauncey Billupps as the most glaring example. Sometimes, it just takes a change of venue and using a player properly for him to shine.

This trade could make sense for both sides. If Minn is totally commited to not trading Kevin, then they need to give him some guys who fit within his window of being effective. If they draft a PG, then they have to wait for him to develop. Tinsley IS a gamble, injury-wise, BUT, could you guys see how he may be a great fit for Garnett as a calculated gamble? They sem to like Banks, but if you could have a Banks/Tinsley combo to give them what Dallas gets from their PG duo....

If nothing else, intriguing trade rumor.

And like the recent Raptors trade, invlves two guys whom their organizations aren't too keen on. And that's a big factor.

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diamonddave00
06-09-2006, 05:06 PM
From what I've been told the Pacers made the offer . McHale is still undecided on the direction he wants to go. I'm told Bird has talked to several teams in the 6-12 range . McHale gave up a lot to get Jaric a #1 and Cassell.

Personally I think the Pacers will either have to sweeten the offer somehow or settle for a pick a little lower down.

But I'm told Bird has 2 players he really likes and is trying a few different combination offers to move up , the Hornets hold 2 picks ahead of the Pacers 12 and 15. I'm told Bird thinks either they or the Bulls at #16 have their eyes on at least 1 of the 2 he desires and may also be trying to move up.

It should get very interesting in the next 2-3 weeks as for Tinsley BYC I was told that on July 12th that lable is removed.

Unclebuck
06-09-2006, 05:08 PM
Sorry, Jay. But Carlisle isn't exactly known for using his guards according to their talents and capabilities. Don't expect that to change with Jaric.

You mean like Billups, Rip, Reggie and AJ.





Overall I love the trade I'd do it in a second. I thought JT's value was a lot lower than this though

Los Angeles
06-09-2006, 05:12 PM
You mean like Billups, Rip, Reggie and AJ.


Among others, yes.

:D

Slick Pinkham
06-09-2006, 05:13 PM
Would we do it sending AJ instead of Tinsley?

Would Minny like that more?

blanket
06-09-2006, 05:40 PM
From what I've been told the Pacers made the offer . McHale is still undecided on the direction he wants to go. I'm told Bird has talked to several teams in the 6-12 range . McHale gave up a lot to get Jaric a #1 and Cassell.

Personally I think the Pacers will either have to sweeten the offer somehow or settle for a pick a little lower down.

But I'm told Bird has 2 players he really likes and is trying a few different combination offers to move up , the Hornets hold 2 picks ahead of the Pacers 12 and 15. I'm told Bird thinks either they or the Bulls at #16 have their eyes on at least 1 of the 2 he desires and may also be trying to move up.

It should get very interesting in the next 2-3 weeks as for Tinsley BYC I was told that on July 12th that lable is removed.

Thanks for the additional info. If we're looking in the 6-12 range, our targets probably don't include those projected in the top 5: Morrison, Aldridge, Bargnani, and maybe Roy. If we were able to consumate a deal for pick #6, our target might be someone like Roy, Williams, or perhaps Foye.

As for the player we're targeting in the lower half of that 6-12 range, based on dd00's description that NO/OC and Chicago might be our main competition, I could see Redick, Douby, and maybe Brewer and Carney fitting the bill.

I know Chicago has been rumored to have a promise to Douby, but I'm not sure who NO/OC have in their sights. They need a big, but with 2 picks they'll probably also take a SG or SF.

Jermaniac
06-09-2006, 06:08 PM
Jaric is a bum, he is overpaid and the worst of all he got his money and now he wont attempt to play hard. The guy did it when he went to Serbia to play for the National team. Horrible person to have on a team.

aceace
06-09-2006, 06:32 PM
This is not true. Larry, Donnie, and I stand behind Jamaal and believe he is our PG of the future.Is that you slick leonard?

Anthem
06-09-2006, 06:57 PM
From what I've been told the Pacers made the offer . McHale is still undecided on the direction he wants to go.
Yeah, that makes sense. I could see us offering, it's just harder to think of Minny proposing an offer like that.

Anthem
06-09-2006, 06:59 PM
The key, to me, is do NOT make him a PG. Let him be a SG. Spot minutes at SF. And that's it.

He's always played best at off-guard, not running the show.
Well, I'm not exactly Jaric's biggest fan, but I'd be completely fine with him as our backup SG. 6'7", shoots the three, decent defense? Sign me up.

But we have too many point guards as it is. And as a PG, Jaric's not an upgrade on any of them.

owl
06-09-2006, 08:12 PM
One of the goals with trading Tinsley is to change the attitude of the
team. Trading Tinsley is a good idea. If we can improve the draft position
then that is an extra bonus. Who is Bird interested in.
I still think it is Reddick, but maybe he is the Luke Jackson of 2006?

Trader Joe
06-09-2006, 09:09 PM
This would not work at ALL until after the draft. Tinsley's BYC is not off by then I think. So Minny would have to draft the guy we want if they wanted to do it.

Trader Joe
06-09-2006, 09:11 PM
BTW I don't like the fact that Bird is competing with Orlando over someone. The way I hear it Orlando LOVES JJ. If we move up to six and take JJ with that pick I would be sick to my stomach.

Anthem
06-09-2006, 09:41 PM
This would not work at ALL until after the draft. Tinsley's BYC is not off by then I think. So Minny would have to draft the guy we want if they wanted to do it.
When you trade a draft pick, the trade doesn't go through until later in the summer.

That's why a traded pick can never play on your summer league team.

NorCal_Pacerfan
06-09-2006, 09:42 PM
One way or the other - bye bye Tinsley.

Young
06-09-2006, 10:46 PM
My guess is that one of the players Bird has his eyes on is Quincy Douby because that is who I hear Chciago wants to take at 16.

Who is the other player he wants? Ronnie Brewer maybe?

Robertmto
06-09-2006, 11:22 PM
Minny's not going to do it until Indy sweetens the pot, their second round pick maybe would seal the deal.

Young
06-09-2006, 11:39 PM
Minny's not going to do it until Indy sweetens the pot, their second round pick maybe would seal the deal.

Second round pick? This draft isn't that deep and our 2nd round pick is at 45, maybe if it was like 33 that might do the trick...

I think there are two ways to sweeten the deal, one is to add a future 1rst, or add David Harrison in the deal. If the Wolves think half as much of David Harrison as some people on this board do, than we would probably have a deal.

Anthem
06-09-2006, 11:57 PM
Second round pick? This draft isn't that deep and our 2nd round pick is at 45, maybe if it was like 33 that might do the trick...

I think there are two ways to sweeten the deal, one is to add a future 1rst, or add David Harrison in the deal. If the Wolves think half as much of David Harrison as some people on this board do, than we would probably have a deal.
Right, and that's too much.

I'd love to have it, but I think that #6 is unattainable.

Unless we're willing to include Croshere and take back another bad contract.

pizza guy
06-10-2006, 12:07 AM
Jaric is a bum, he is overpaid and the worst of all he got his money and now he wont attempt to play hard. The guy did it when he went to Serbia to play for the National team. Horrible person to have on a team.


Jamal is a bum, he is overpaid and the worst of all he got his money and now he cant attempt to play hard. The guy did it once when he went into the playoffs for the team. Horrible person to have on a team.

Fixed.


Jaric and #6 for Tins and #17? Sign me up. Who else can we fleece to get rid of SJax?

Robertmto
06-10-2006, 12:09 AM
Its hard to sweeten the pot with another player. You can't use Hulk because their only low contrat to match up the slaries is Bracey and they are looking to keep him and make him their backup PG. And the Cro scenario doesnt work becasue they dont have a bad contract to match that. Its gonna have to be another pick they trade to them.

blanket
06-10-2006, 01:04 AM
Its hard to sweeten the pot with another player. You can't use Hulk because their only low contrat to match up the slaries is Bracey and they are looking to keep him and make him their backup PG. And the Cro scenario doesnt work becasue they dont have a bad contract to match that. Its gonna have to be another pick they trade to them.

What about if we include the rights to last year's 2nd rounder, Erazem Lorbek, who is getting lots of accolades for his play in Europe?

skyfire
06-10-2006, 01:13 AM
Jaric, Hudson and #6 for Jax, Tins and #17 is another option. I dont like it tho.

Suaveness
06-10-2006, 01:14 AM
Why the hell would Minnesota do this?

CableKC
06-10-2006, 01:17 AM
The only players that can be used to sweeten any deal is Foster or AJ. Those are the only players that the Pacers have that are worth anything that can be used as trade-bait while taking back some players to match salaries.

I'm not saying that it is fair or anything....but let's face facts....we don't have much that anyone on the team would possibly want.

Robertmto
06-10-2006, 03:36 AM
What about if we include the rights to last year's 2nd rounder, Erazem Lorbek, who is getting lots of accolades for his play in Europe?

He would work perfectly eith the Tins/17 for Jaric/6 deal.

rexnom
06-12-2006, 07:14 AM
Quick note for those who think this is unrealistic:

Minnesota gives up a bad contract, gets the #17 pick, and a starting quality PG (who they might believe will fall in line behind KG or something) and all they have to give up is the #6 pick in a weak draft. Seems realistic to me. If this became Roy and Jaric and we actually did it, I would do happy dances. Somehow, I doubt this is going to be done...Although I think Roy is the guy we should be targeting.