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View Full Version : More on the Larry Brown situation- Zeke speaks.



Will Galen
06-07-2006, 05:04 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/67129.htm

ZEKE SPEAKS
KNICKS PREZ BREAKS SILENCE; NO HINT OF BACKING BROWN

By MARC BERMAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 7, 2006 -- ORLANDO - The Knicks' soap opera officially hit Orlando last night as Isiah Thomas finally broke his silence since reports surfaced that owner James Dolan is seeking a divorce from Larry Brown.
And the Knicks president did absolutely nothing yesterday to quash those reports.

Intercepted as he walked toward the Milkhouse Arena inside the Disney Wide World of Sports, coach-in-waiting Thomas spoke for about 30 seconds to greet four Knicks beat writers and a Post photographer. And it was the most telling 30 seconds since the Brown Watch began more than three weeks ago.

There wasn't the slightest hint of a vote of confidence.

"It's the same as we said before," Thomas said. "We won't comment on any of the reports that are out there. We're just here to make sure we do our work draft-wise and try to have another successful draft."

Then, when asked directly if his April 20 edict that Brown will be back still holds true, Thomas smiled sheepishly, shrugged slightly, waved and said, "See you guys later."

Yes, it is later for the lame-duck Brown.

Isiah was whisked away by VP of publicity Jonathan Supranowitz, who was on hand to shield Thomas from the media. Oh yes, the Knicks' soap opera officially hit Orlando.

Thomas' remarks to reporters were more than he said to Brown all of yesterday, as the two did not cross each other's paths or speak.

After giving three roadside interviews last week near the Westchester practice facility, Brown appears to be under a gag order in Orlando. The organization wasn't pleased Brown spoke at all last week.

"I know you have a job, but I'm not allowed. I don't have anything to say," Brown said upon arriving.

When asked if he's ready to confront Isiah, the suntanned Brown said, "No. It's not my place."

Brown showed up one hour before last night's start of the four-day pre-draft camp, while Thomas arrived 15 minutes late.

After the workouts, Brown, before dodging into his rental car, said, "C'mon guys. It's not the time. I feel bad I can't talk to you. I apologize."

Minutes after Brown sped off, Thomas arrived in the parking lot and huddled for several minutes with Wolves personnel director Jim Stack, Isiah's assistant with the Pacers who is expected to be a Knicks assistant candidate once Isiah takes the helm.

Brown and Thomas were the two best-dressed people at the workouts. Brown wore a white golf shirt and pinstriped black slacks. Thomas wore a pinstriped cream dress shirt and brown-colored slacks.

------------------------------
EDIT; It's about time they started giving us this information! What I really want to know though is what Walsh and Carlisle were wearing.
------------------------------

During the 90-minute drill session in which 60 draft candidates participated, Brown sat courtside with his former boss, Indiana president Donnie Walsh. Halfway through, Brown took a seat and chatted with Pacers coach Rick Carlisle. Meanwhile, Thomas was far away, up in the fourth-from-last row of the bleachers, sitting alongside Knicks scout Gerald Madkins.

Brown did not appear to come into contact with any of the 10 Knicks scouts on hand. Brown drove to the complex alone. After the session, Brown was swarmed by well-wishers, including longtime friend Doug Moe, a Nuggets assistant, who playfully hugged Brown and dragged him away with the reporters in tow.

After his conference with Brown, Walsh said, "I know nothing. I'm not talking about that (stuff)."

Brown knew it would be painfully awkward, but he was ordered to Orlando, along with assistant Herb Williams, by Knicks brass. Brown's assistants he brought in from Detroit - Phil Ford, Dave Hanners and Brendan O'Connor - were not invited. There are indications Brown could go home after today's games. Brown has said Thomas hasn't addressed the topic of his future. They've only talked about workouts. Now it's unclear if they're talking at all.

As team GMs, scouts and coaches entered the facility, they all noticed the gaggle of Knicks writers staked out in front and were amused at the circus, but some admitted they were following every detail through newspaper accounts. The Knicks have become not only the laughingstock of the regular season, but the off-season, too, because of their disgraceful treatment of Brown.

Warriors GM Chris Mullin said he had no plans to ask permission to speak with Brown. Brown is close to the Warriors owner, Chris Cohan, his Hamptons neighbor.

indygeezer
06-07-2006, 06:12 AM
Let the rumors begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avoiding the obvious...........
Herb to be hired as a big-man coach by the Pacers??

RWB
06-07-2006, 07:14 AM
They keep saying Donnie will retire after next season. There will be changes in the front office and how long will Brown want to coach?

indygeezer
06-07-2006, 08:51 AM
They keep saying Donnie will retire after next season. There will be changes in the front office and how long will Brown want to coach?


Larry "I never met a player I didn't wanna trade" Brown as GM???? :laugh:

Kegboy
06-07-2006, 08:51 AM
Let the rumors begin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Avoiding the obvious...........
Herb to be hired as a big-man coach by the Pacers??

That'd be just fine with me. And yes, I'm avoiding the obvious, cause I don't want Jay to come after me. :shudder:

Fool
06-07-2006, 09:42 AM
During the 90-minute drill session in which 60 draft candidates participated, Brown sat courtside with his former boss, Indiana president Donnie Walsh. Halfway through, Brown took a seat and chatted with Pacers coach Rick Carlisle. Meanwhile, Thomas was far away, up in the fourth-from-last row of the bleachers, sitting alongside Knicks scout Gerald Madkins.


Walsh to Brown: "Larry, if Rick can get us into the conference finals this year do you think you can hold onto this Knick job long enough to be fired just in time to win us a championship in 08? I mean, it worked in Detroit ...."

Brown to Carlisle: "So Rick ... what do you think the odds are of you guys making the ECF this coming season?"

Bball
06-07-2006, 09:49 AM
"Rick is moving into the front office at his own choosing? That's interesting to know, Donnie"

"So Rick, are you really wanting to coach this team next year or are you thinking of going ahead and taking that front office job? I always liked Indiana and coaching the Pacers is a dream job...."

-Bball

indygeezer
06-07-2006, 10:43 AM
this has suddenly become a "Caption this" thread...........

Okey Doke


Donnie to Larry........"I can absolutely promise you we will not trade for Ivy"

Larry to Rick............" Ok, so where do I get a copy of The Hick to English Dictionary ?"

Peck
06-07-2006, 01:13 PM
Um, I hate to take this off track but I have a real question.

Where the F is Larry Bird? He better be at this thing. There is no way the guy should be backpacking through Europe during the regular season to scout players we may never have contact with but then not go in the off-season to a pre-draft camp to see players who are going to be drafted.

I won't point out the obvious that Walsh is still there, still involved in picking players.

G.M. by group continues on....

CableKC
06-07-2006, 01:15 PM
I hope that Brown sticks to his guns and makes Dolan pay the full contract that he is owed.

The icing on the cake would be to watch Zeke finish off the Knicks and bury them into the sand.

On a related note....doesn't the Bulls have the right to swap 1st round picks in 2008 with the Knicks ( on top of getting the 1st round pick this year )?

CableKC
06-07-2006, 01:16 PM
Um, I hate to take this off track but I have a real question.

Where the F is Larry Bird? He better be at this thing. There is no way the guy should be backpacking through Europe during the regular season to scout players we may never have contact with but then not go in the off-season to a pre-draft camp to see players who are going to be drafted.

I won't point out the obvious that Walsh is still there, still involved in picking players.

G.M. by group continues on....

Based off of his track record...I would much rather have Donnie pick who we will draft rather then Bird. :rolleyes:

Kegboy
06-07-2006, 01:29 PM
Um, I hate to take this off track but I have a real question.

Where the F is Larry Bird? He better be at this thing. There is no way the guy should be backpacking through Europe during the regular season to scout players we may never have contact with but then not go in the off-season to a pre-draft camp to see players who are going to be drafted.

I won't point out the obvious that Walsh is still there, still involved in picking players.

G.M. by group continues on....

We need to hire a PI to get to the bottom of who's really doing what.

Bball
06-07-2006, 02:10 PM
Based off of his track record...I would much rather have Donnie pick who we will draft rather then Bird. :rolleyes:

Bird's been around for Danny and Harrison altho who actually made the call is anybody's guess.

CableKC, I don't get how you could have any opinion about's Bird's track record..yet...

DW has drafted some good players and he's drafted some duds. I'm not sure if Bird has done anything (draftwise) but if he has, it would be Harrison and Granger. I wouldn't call that a bad track record.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
06-07-2006, 02:30 PM
Better than the early-90's trio of McCloud, Sealy, and Haskins, which only produced one rotation player (and he didn't really crack anybody's rotation until after he was traded.)

ChicagoJ
06-07-2006, 02:31 PM
And yes, I'm avoiding the obvious, cause I don't want Jay to come after me. :shudder:

Oh goodie!! Let's teach David to have four turnovers and three fouls in just the first six minutes of the first quarter. :woot2:

CableKC
06-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Bird's been around for Danny and Harrison altho who actually made the call is anybody's guess.

CableKC, I don't get how you could have any opinion about's Bird's track record..yet...

DW has drafted some good players and he's drafted some duds. I'm not sure if Bird has done anything (draftwise) but if he has, it would be Harrison and Granger. I wouldn't call that a bad track record.

-Bball

When I was referring to "his track record"....I was referring to Walsh's track record. Color me impressed by that recent post on Walsh's draft history. Granted.....the Bender move wasn't the greatest and seemed logical at the time....but he still has a decent batting average.

As you said.....we have no idea ( when it comes to drafting ) who is pulling the strings. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on Granger....when it came to drafting him....even if he did make the final decision....it didn't take a "Draft expert" to know that at the 16th pick ( or was it 17th pick ) that he was a "no-brainer".

btowncolt
06-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Oh goodie!! Let's teach David to have four turnovers and three fouls in just the first six minutes of the first quarter. :woot2:

So you don't want him to improve?

ChicagoJ
06-07-2006, 02:40 PM
So you don't want him to improve?

:kicknuts:

Fool
06-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Um, I hate to take this off track but I have a real question.

Where the F is Larry Bird?

Decency denies so many funny replies.

Anthem
06-07-2006, 03:20 PM
Maybe I'm just slow, but did I miss something? Why are we talking about Carlisle taking a front-office job?

rexnom
06-07-2006, 05:11 PM
Um, I hate to take this off track but I have a real question.

Where the F is Larry Bird? He better be at this thing. There is no way the guy should be backpacking through Europe during the regular season to scout players we may never have contact with but then not go in the off-season to a pre-draft camp to see players who are going to be drafted.

I won't point out the obvious that Walsh is still there, still involved in picking players.

G.M. by group continues on....
Btw, according to SI, Larry Bird was there:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/luke_winn/06/07/orlando/index.html

Arcadian
06-07-2006, 05:36 PM
My vote would be to send Bird off to Europe.

Peck
06-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Btw, according to SI, Larry Bird was there:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/luke_winn/06/07/orlando/index.html


Well at least that makes me feel better.

Bball
06-07-2006, 05:46 PM
My vote would be to send Walsh off to retirement and see what Bird can do because it's supposedly coming sooner or later. Might as well make it sooner at this point because the GM by Committee plan is not working.

If Bird is great, then perfect... the sooner he starts on his own the better. If Bird sucks, then we don't waste any more of this time in purgatory and then waste a few more years under Bird before the axe falls.

Bird should not be held accountable for this period of time where no one knows exactly what his role is (probably including Bird himself). Bird is already garnering some boos and he doesn't even have the keys yet. Give the man the keys and let him sink or swim (or 'fly' as the case may be) on his own merits. Not on committee decisions or decisions that he had nothing to do with.

One voice... one vision...

-Bball

rexnom
06-07-2006, 05:47 PM
My vote would be to send Walsh off to retirement and see what Bird can do because it's supposedly coming sooner or later. Might as well make it sooner at this point because the GM by Committee plan is not working.

If Bird is great, then perfect... the sooner he starts on his own the better. If Bird sucks, then we don't waste any more of this time in purgatory and then waste a few more years under Bird before the axe falls.

Bird should not be held accountable for this period of time where no one knows exactly what his role is (probably including Bird himself). Bird is already garnering some boos and he doesn't even have the keys yet. Give the man the keys and let him sink or swim (or 'fly' as the case may be) on his own merits. Not on committee decisions or decisions that he had nothing to do with.

One voice... one vision...

-Bball
One goal?

Oooh. Too Soon?

Bball
06-07-2006, 05:51 PM
One goal?

Oooh. Too Soon?

Probably...

-Bball

Kaufman
06-07-2006, 09:51 PM
Nice pun... Bird "fly"...

So my thought is this: Remember back to the mid 90's and Bird was an employee of the Celtics. and he had a title. But he wasn't happy with it, remember? So do you think that Bird would be working here if he was just a figure head? I don't think so, I think LB has considerably more input than we all think. Like Dan Marino didn't stick around with the Dolphins too long - I think that there is too much pride amongst people that were at the top of their professions.

Just a thought...

Evan_The_Dude
06-07-2006, 10:12 PM
Larry "I never met a player I didn't wanna trade" Brown as GM???? :laugh:



Would be a good time to switch from Donnie "I never met a player I wanted to trade" Walsh...

Ron who?
06-08-2006, 12:51 AM
Would be a good time to switch from Donnie "I never met a player I wanted to trade" Walsh...

i think i agree with EV.... Walsh doesnt trade anybody besides somebody needs to blow this franchise up because what we got set up isnt working

Will Galen
06-08-2006, 01:58 AM
Nice pun... Bird "fly"...

So my thought is this: Remember back to the mid 90's and Bird was an employee of the Celtics. and he had a title. But he wasn't happy with it, remember? So do you think that Bird would be working here if he was just a figure head? I don't think so, I think LB has considerably more input than we all think. Like Dan Marino didn't stick around with the Dolphins too long - I think that there is too much pride amongst people that were at the top of their professions.

Just a thought...

I've used that logic on the mostly anti management crowd, but they ignore it. Even when Walsh explains that he helps Bird they come up with catchy phrases like, one vision, and GM by Committee.

Bball
06-08-2006, 02:15 AM
I've used that logic on the mostly anti management crowd, but they ignore it. Even when Walsh explains that he helps Bird they come up with catchy phrases like, one vision, and GM by Committee.

Even if it was simply Walsh 'helping' Bird, that is too much. That is exactly "GM by Committee". Let the man have the keys and let's see what the future holds starting now. As long as they play this game with the two of them then we're in purgatory. What's worse is Bird is already getting some bad blood boiling and blame aimed his way when it is not clear at all he has anything to do with anything... much less that he should shoulder all the blame.

If Bird's going to be on the hotseat, then let's be sure he deserves it. Let's not make him a scapegoat for the mess we're in.

Of course I'm starting to believe more and more that Bird is just a figurehead and once Walsh moves on Bird will hire an underling and delegate to him... Which might not be all bad but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

In any case, there's nothing Walsh can do but get in the way of the next phase of these Pacers (if he's retiring in a year or something close anyway). It's time to move on and let the rebuilding process begin.


-Bball

Will Galen
06-08-2006, 07:17 AM
[QUOTE=Bball]Even if it was simply Walsh 'helping' Bird, that is too much. That is exactly "GM by Committee".

Oh good grief! I guess the Pacers should fire all the scouts and most of the coach's because they help too.

It's time to move on and let the rebuilding process begin.

What rebuilding process?

At the start of the last two seasons this team and franchise was one of the favorites. It didn't work out either year because of Ron Artest, so he was traded for another all star. So now we suddenly have to rebuild?

Injuries have hurt this team more than anything else. It would help to if we didn't lead the league in them.

Beyond that all we have to do is get rid of the knuckleheads, but even if we don't I don't foresee them being quite so knuckleheaded next season. With a good draft and a couple good trades theres no reason we can't enter next season as one of the favorites once again.

Kaufman
06-08-2006, 09:42 AM
BBall,

I think Walsh has done a pretty stand up job for us since 1986 and if he wants to make a run at a title, then so be it. He's not announced his retirement date and until he does, then I'm not going to push him out. When it comes to Donnie Walsh, I don't think you can listen to rumors, you have to wait on the facts and see what transpires.

As far as Bird goes, well again, I think that if Bird wasn't contributing to the team, management above him would have washed their hands of him in a nice sort of way. We are the Indiana Pacers and we were before Larry was with us, and we will be after he leaves. There are other Indiana people and former Pacer people we could bring in for the sake of figureheads... I don't think that the team revolves around having LB as its figurehead.

Kaufman...

Bball
06-08-2006, 09:54 AM
I don't think Bird is purely a figurehead. That's probably the wrong word. I believe he can and does make suggestions to Walsh and Walsh might follow through on occassion. And Walsh probably asks for his opinions on issues. BUT... I don't believe Bird can do anything more than make suggestions.

IOW... Bird can't pull the trigger on anything.



-Bball

Since86
06-08-2006, 10:04 AM
Am I missing something?

I could of sworn Saras was considered Bird's man? It was Bird following him around Europe for two summers, and Bird calling him trying to convince him to come here.

But he only suggested to Donnie that they should sign him?

Bird definately has some power to do what he wants.

Will Galen
06-08-2006, 10:26 AM
IOW... Bird can't pull the trigger on anything.



-Bball

I just flat out disagree with you.

Bball
06-08-2006, 11:09 AM
Am I missing something?

I could of sworn Saras was considered Bird's man? It was Bird following him around Europe for two summers, and Bird calling him trying to convince him to come here.

But he only suggested to Donnie that they should sign him?

Bird definately has some power to do what he wants.

And if Donnie would have said 'no' the pursuit would've been over. IMHO...


-Bball

Bball
06-08-2006, 11:11 AM
I just flat out disagree with you.

That is why you are wrong on the issue at hand... :devil:










;)
-Bball

Since86
06-08-2006, 11:19 AM
And if Donnie would have said 'no' the pursuit would've been over. IMHO...


-Bball


That's your opinion going up against an undisputed fact that Bird was triggerman in aquiring Saras.

Still shows Bird is more than a figure head.

Bball
06-08-2006, 11:35 AM
I'll stand by my statement. If Donnie would've said "no" then the pursuit would've been over.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
06-08-2006, 11:44 AM
Donnie should have said no.

grace
06-08-2006, 12:09 PM
That's your opinion going up against an undisputed fact that Bird was triggerman in aquiring Saras.

Still shows Bird is more than a figure head.

Or Donnie decided if Larry was off chasing Cabbage all over Europe he couldn't cause any trouble around here.

Arcadian
06-08-2006, 12:10 PM
I don't think Bird is purely a figurehead. That's probably the wrong word. I believe he can and does make suggestions to Walsh and Walsh might follow through on occassion. And Walsh probably asks for his opinions on issues. BUT... I don't believe Bird can do anything more than make suggestions.

How can you know this? The conjecture and speculation are non-stop.

Bball
06-08-2006, 12:29 PM
How can you know this? The conjecture and speculation are non-stop.

I never claimed otherwise... But this is a discussion board and little original material here is anything but conjecture, speculation, and opinion.

I think the anecdotal evidence points to my opinion being pretty close to accurate. I remain open-mined on the subject but I've yet to see anything compelling to suggest the situation is otherwise.

Walsh is still running this team IMHO altho he accepts input from Bird and likely bounces things off of Bird. "GM by Committee".

It wouldn't surprise me to find Bird is more 'scout' than GM tho.... IMHO...

-Bball

Will Galen
06-08-2006, 01:54 PM
I'll stand by my statement. If Donnie would've said "no" then the pursuit would've been over.

-Bball

And if one of the Simons would have said yes after Donnie said no?

See the problem with your argument? Of course you do, you're just being intransigent.

Bball
06-08-2006, 02:50 PM
And if one of the Simons would have said yes after Donnie said no?

I don't think the Simons would ever overrule DW in that manner. If DW would've said 'no' that would've been 'it' IMHO.




See the problem with your argument? Of course you do, you're just being intransigent.

I've got to research some projection screens but rest assured I will be looking "intransigent" up sometime today. ;)

-Bball "Stubborn?"

Will Galen
06-08-2006, 03:14 PM
I don't think the Simons would ever overrule DW in that manner. If DW would've said 'no' that would've been 'it' IMHO.



I've got to research some projection screens but rest assured I will be looking "intransigent" up sometime today. ;)

-Bball "Stubborn?"

(Giggle, giggle, snort)

Kaufman
06-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Its one of the new SAT words they're teaching in high school these days... Come on BBall, you must have heard the word intransigent before, haven't you??

Bball
06-08-2006, 06:04 PM
Its one of the new SAT words they're teaching in high school these days... Come on BBall, you must have heard the word intransigent before, haven't you??

Yes, I knew what it meant. I was just kidding around. That's why I put the "stubborn" by my username when I signed my post.

But in any case, I don't believe I've been making a meretricious argument in this thread.

:tongue:



;)

-Bball

rexnom
06-08-2006, 06:25 PM
Meretricious-Damn son! That was off the chain, he is going all Akeeleh up in herre. That's what all y'all get for questioning my boy's perspicacity!

RWB
06-09-2006, 07:22 AM
I've got to research some projection screens but rest assured I will be looking "intransigent" up sometime today. ;)

-Bball "Stubborn?"

Did you know Draper is made in Indiana?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/screen-suppliers.htm

Bball
06-09-2006, 10:03 AM
Did you know Draper is made in Indiana?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/screen-suppliers.htm

I did not... Altho I knew Da Lite was made in Indiana. Is Indiana the projector screen capital?

-Bball

Anthem
06-09-2006, 11:30 AM
Meretricious-Damn son! That was off the chain, he is going all Akeeleh up in herre. That's what all y'all get for questioning my boy's perspicacity!
That's awesome. Probably the only time you'll ever see "off the chain" and "perspicacity" in the same line.

Until I quoted, I didn't realize you said it. I thought it was Jermainiac.