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View Full Version : Insider request- Ford: JO to Toronto for Villaneuva and #1 pick?



JBones19
06-01-2006, 10:38 PM
Apparently on Chad Ford's latest blog he says Toronto may be looking to trade Charlie V and the #1 for a vet big man, mentions JO, would like to see it if anyone can post this. Thanks in advance!

-J

Lord Helmet
06-01-2006, 10:44 PM
That's very interesting.

Jermaniac
06-01-2006, 10:44 PM
We do that and then Charlie and the #1 pick would never play. Rick Carlisle is the man.

Ohh and I wouldnt do it.

SoupIsGood
06-01-2006, 10:48 PM
Now THAT would be worth looking into.

Get some great young talent and dump salary at the same time. Granger and Charlie at the forwards spots could potentially be a great pairing.

Is Toronto under the cap so that they could do this without salaries matching?

Will Galen
06-01-2006, 11:06 PM
Charlie, the #1, and 15 1/2 million off the salary cap? I think I would do that! The question would then be who would be our #1 pick.

Of course it wouldn't be quite that much off the cap because we would have to pay the #1, still . . .

We would get a big trade exception too.

ChicagoJ
06-01-2006, 11:09 PM
how many years do you guys want to be in the lottery?

SoupIsGood
06-01-2006, 11:11 PM
There's hardly any difference between being a 6-8 seed in the friggin pathetic East and being in the lottery.

pacerwaala
06-01-2006, 11:14 PM
that is garbage deal for us! JO for all his shortcomings is pretty damn good. No thanks! Also, I somehow am of the opinion that Donnie is good at picking mid to late first round. I think he would not do a good job when he has a top 5(no pun intended) pick!

sweabs
06-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Heh - as people know, I'm no JO fan by any means. But I wouldn't even do that deal...plus salaries definitely wouldn't work at that point.

Jermaniac
06-01-2006, 11:22 PM
You wouldnt? I thought you would be all over it.

But if you guys want Charlie Villanueva we can just sign Tim Thomas and have our own Charlie Villanueva, Tim Thomas is better cause he does a dance after every 3 so that puts him ahead of Charlie.

wooolus
06-01-2006, 11:30 PM
This trade would give the Pacers a lot of Flexiability, we could pick a big man or go for the sure thing Alas Bradon Roy, Rudy Gay or someone like that to help us with our SG situations and move Jax and Tin. We can pick that PG with the 17th...

But, Charlie will not boost the Female attendence in games...

Sollozzo
06-01-2006, 11:32 PM
how many years do you guys want to be in the lottery?


Is that really that much worse than being 41-41 and getting bounced in the first round?

I don't think we'd be a lottery team with that move anyway.

Shade
06-01-2006, 11:40 PM
You wouldnt? I thought you would be all over it.

But if you guys want Charlie Villanueva we can just sign Tim Thomas and have our own Charlie Villanueva, Tim Thomas is better cause he does a dance after every 3 so that puts him ahead of Charlie.

Oh, come on. You know you're dying to be reborn as Villaneuviac.

Lord Helmet
06-01-2006, 11:45 PM
Oh, come on. You know you're dying to be reborn as Villaneuviac.
Ew.

Young
06-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I love that deal for us. I was saying Charlie was gonna be a bust but he proved me wrong. I don't think he is a franchise player, he isn't a real go to guy, but he will be a very good player.

Charlie is a very skilled player. He is a very good passer, which is what I like most about him. He is still developing his game, make no mistake about that, and he still has to improve, but I think that Charlie would be a great addition to this team.

Then with the 1rst pick, we could draft Aldrige or Bargnani.

Thanks for your time in Indy JO but if the Raptors would agree to this, we would have to do it. JO isn't worth his 20 million dollar a year salary. We need to re build this team.

Of course, this deal won't happen but I guess it is to early to tell.

btowncolt
06-02-2006, 12:04 AM
how many years do you guys want to be in the lottery?

How many years is Tinsley still under contract?

Pacersfan46
06-02-2006, 12:05 AM
I'd do it.

Granger, Charlie V, and Aldridge? That's a hell of a potential starting front court for a long time.

Fireball Kid
06-02-2006, 12:07 AM
This team isnt going anywhere so I say, what the hell? Charlie plus LA doesnt sound that bad.

indytoad
06-02-2006, 12:09 AM
I would do that for all the reasons rommie stated. However, I'm not sure if Carlisle would be a good coach for such a young team. Would want to change out coaches. And yes, we would probably miss the playoffs for a year or two, but I think it would pay off in the long run. It's hard to rebuild your team on mid- to late-first round picks.

IndyToad
Ali Zimbabwe

Ron who?
06-02-2006, 12:15 AM
not all teams get good from lottery picks... the warriors case in point

Aw Heck
06-02-2006, 12:20 AM
I can't really see it happening. Too much roster turnover would have to happen I think. Carlisle definitely wouldn't fit with that team.

But considering Garnett is probably not going to be on the market, that's not the worst offer you could get for JO.

Would Peja even want to re-sign if that went down? I don't think he really wants to go to a rebuilding situation. I wouldn't be suprised if he asked for a sign-and-trade or just signed elsewhere. I could be wrong though.

I'm kinda iffy on the trade though. That #1 pick could turn out to be great. But the trade could also turn out to be Elton Brand for Tyson Chandler Part II.

grace
06-02-2006, 12:30 AM
Is that really that much worse than being 41-41 and getting bounced in the first round?

Yes, it really is that much worse. The more games the Pacers lose the less people go to games and the more threads there are about how horrible attendance is and how if the Pacers just played in MSA again everything would be fine.

And then we'd ALWAYS be last in the lottery. Even if every other team only had one of those stupid ping pong balls the Pacers would still get the worst pick and then there would be all these threads about how there's a conspiracy against the Pacers/small market teams.

There are lots of other bad things that could happen, but I have a headache.

:goodnight

Eindar
06-02-2006, 12:33 AM
I'd probably do the trade. JO's contract is a boat anchor considering he doesn't lead, and he isn't clutch. Having Charlie V. and either Bargnani or Aldridge would give us 2 promising bigs to build around, and also some cap flexibility.

Robertmto
06-02-2006, 12:36 AM
so I'm guessin its decided that if the Pacers make that trade u guys want Aldridge?

Shade
06-02-2006, 12:50 AM
I really like JO, but I'd have to think long and hard about this one.

Maybe if we could somehow turn that into the #1 pick of 2007... ;)

Will Galen
06-02-2006, 12:53 AM
I really like JO, but I'd have to think long and hard about this one.

Maybe if we could somehow turn that into the #1 pick of 2007... ;)

Hmmm, Charlie and their #1 next year? Or we could trade the #1 for a player and a swap of draft pcks next year.

SoupIsGood
06-02-2006, 01:08 AM
so I'm guessin its decided that if the Pacers make that trade u guys want Aldridge?
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/01/26/in-morrison.jpg

Robertmto
06-02-2006, 01:13 AM
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2006/01/26/in-morrison.jpg

There we go. Morrison would be great here. And that way they could S&T Peja and some other player (Jax, Tins or a big man) for a starting center.

SoupIsGood
06-02-2006, 01:22 AM
There we go. Morrison would be great here. And that way they could S&T Peja and some other player (Jax, Tins or a big man) for a starting center.
Morrison would make sense here for WAY too many reasons. This Toronto trade is probably shot because it doesn't seem to add up salary-wise, though.

However, that old JO for Hinrich and the lotto-pick rumour doesn't sound quite as bad anymore..... hmmmmmm. I really like JO, but being able to add Hinrich and Morrison would be a freaking sweet deal.

Robertmto
06-02-2006, 01:29 AM
Morrison in Indiana would be amazing. I mite become a fan again if that happens.

Robertmto
06-02-2006, 01:33 AM
I wonder would they take Jamison instead of JO?

Will Galen
06-02-2006, 01:40 AM
I got this off the Star forum.


From espn.com:


Quote:
People around the league are still trying to figure out what the Raptors are up to.

Are they drafting Andrea Bargnani? Are the really after UConn's Marcus Williams? Are they trading out of the draft altogether?

The latest intel is all pretty inconclusive at the moment.

The fact that GM Bryan Colangelo has sent his staff, including Wayne Embry, to Italy to watch Andrea Bargnani is significant. A source in Toronto claims that no one in the organization is as high on Bargnani as Colangelo is. In order to build a consensus on draft night, Colangelo wanted to make sure they had seen Bargnani enough to come to an educated decision.

He probably should've sent forward Chris Bosh as well. Bosh publicly said last week that he didn't think the Raptors needed Bargnani and seemed to be campaigning for LaMarcus Aldridge, a fellow Texan and former workout partner. Personal ties, more than basketball, are probably influencing Bosh. Aldridge is actually much more similar to Bosh than Bargnani is. Still Bosh's complaint is significant. He's the one guy the Raptors don't want to tick off.

If the Raptors did draft Bargnani, they could trade Charlie Villanueva (whose trade value is very high at the moment) for a player who plays the one or the five. Or they could decide to play a little like Phoenix and put Bosh at the five, Villanueva at the four and Bargnani at the three. The team would be long and athletic and could really score. Defensively they'd have some problems, but the league seems to be moving away from its obsession for bruising, physical centers.

Another option for the Raptors is to trade down a few spots in the draft and grab a player who fits a need. Numerous sources around the league are saying the Raptors are very open to trading the pick.

Bill Duffy, the agent for Williams, told me on Tuesday that Raptors loved Williams in his workout and had told him that Williams was in the mix at No. 5. The Raptors moved up to No. 1, and wouldn't consider taking Williams with the top pick. But if they swapped picks with a team like the Blazers, they could be in a position to draft him.

Here's why I think that scenario is unlikely. While Williams is the best pure point guard in the draft, he has a number of question marks that make his selection by the Raptors doubtful.

One, he went to Toronto out of shape. Duffy didn't deny that Williams was overweight, saying that Williams got a late jump on his draft training because of school obligations. Still, a point guard with a weight problem is the last thing a NBA coach or GM wants. Deron Williams overcame those objections last year by slimming down considerably before the draft. Marcus Williams, in contrast, put 15 pounds on top of his playing weight of 205.

Two, his lack of athleticism is going to be troubling to a GM like Colangelo, who had speedy point guards during his tenure on the Suns. Williams has great court vision, but his lack of speed makes him a poor comparison to Jason Kidd or Steve Nash.

Three, questions about Williams off the court, including those about his involvement in selling stolen laptops at UConn, have raised a red flag for NBA teams.

I'm not piling criticism on Williams. I've had him ranked as the best or second-best point guard in the draft all year and believe he's got a chance to be an excellent NBA player. He has an amazing feel for the game. And unlike many of this year's other prospects, he's ready to play now.

But all of those question marks, I believe, will hurt his draft stock a little.

If the Raptors do trade down to No. 4 or No. 5, I'd still expect them to target Bargnani or Brandon Roy.

Another scenario may be more plausible -- the Raptors could trade way down or out of the draft and grab a veteran player who could contribute immediately.

Sources claim that Colangelo doesn't want to delay the rebuilding process any longer than he has to and would be open to trading the pick to a team willing to give the Raptors a veteran he covets.

What makes some sense in this scenario?

The Pacers seem to be a team that might have to rethink how they're going to play in the future. Would Larry Bird trade Jermaine O'Neal for the No. 1 pick, Villanueva and cap relief?

The Grizzlies are another team that can't seem to get over the hump, and they are having financial difficulties. If the Raptors really want to go international, would the Grizzlies part with Pau Gasol for the No. 1 pick, Villanueva and cap relief?

The Knicks are the other obvious suitors, though it's hard to believe anyone on their roster could help them pry the Raptors No. 1 pick away. It would probably take Channing Frye, the one guy the Knicks seem to want to hold onto.

The Sixers are another team that would like to deal. Samuel Dalembert is on the block, and the Sixers likely would be willing to take back a player like Alvin Williams or Eric Williams, even if it meant swallowing a bad contract. The question is whether the Raptors would really take on Dalembert's huge salary ($55 million) for the next five years.

One more Raptors note:

Jay Williams' agent, Kevin Bradbury, told me that Williams will be in Toronto on Wednesday and Thursday working out for the Raptors. He'll then do a workout a week for select teams, trying to land a one-year guarantee on a roster. Williams has been rehabbing in Chicago all year and according to Bradbury is looking "100 percent better than he did last year."

Robertmto
06-02-2006, 01:56 AM
Gasol/JO is a toss up for me. Dalembert is too expensive (yet so is JO) and i don't like Channing Frye as a Raptor cuz he's more of a 3/4 combo instead of 4/5. The Raptors need a solid big man.

Kegboy
06-02-2006, 02:58 AM
Maybe if we could somehow turn that into the #1 pick of 2007... ;)

You said it, brother.

/desmond

rexnom
06-02-2006, 03:40 AM
You said it, brother.

/desmond
I agree, box-man,

/desmond

Wish we could get Oden somehow...this move is promising but too risky...

Best-case scenario: Aldrige becomes Bosh-like and Villaneuva keeps moving up: we have a killer front court for the next ten years.

Worst-case scenario: Aldrige doesn't become much, we realize Charlie V. is undersized, Danny, LA, and CV can't play together...it's a mess, one goes by trade

Most likely scenario: One of the three doesn't fit in. Considering we also have Peja here, it might be more than one.

If there were real studs in this draft I'd do it, mos def, but I am too afraid of something like Elton for Tyson, as Aw Heck said to really consider giving up my franchise guy that quick.

pizza guy
06-03-2006, 01:19 AM
Well, hey, if Toronto wants a starting PG, send 'em Tinsley for the pick.

Robertmto
06-03-2006, 01:50 AM
Well, hey, if Toronto wants a starting PG, send 'em Tinsley for the pick.

I thot everybody here says AJ is the starting PG??? Are you guys trying to pull a fast one on the Canadians? Eh?

beast23
06-03-2006, 02:06 AM
How many years is Tinsley still under contract?I have a cure for that one, since the trade is already ridiculous anyway.

Since James is hell-bent on getting out of Toronto anyway, why not throw in Tinsley and they can arrange a sign-and-trade of Mike James as part of the deal?