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Will Galen
06-01-2006, 05:55 PM
http://sports.excite.com/news/06012006/v4991.html

Indiana Coach Carlisle Feels Secure Despite Bird's Comment

Jun 1, 5:52 PM (ET)

By CLIFF BRUNT
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Indiana Pacers coach Rick Carlisle doesn't feel like his job is in danger.

After the Pacers finished a 41-41 season by losing in the first round of the playoffs, team president Larry Bird said Carlisle should expect more of his players and that, at times, he lost control of the team.

Carlisle has spoken with Bird and CEO Donnie Walsh since the news conference, and said Thursday he feels secure about his status.

"We've had a lot of conversations since the season ended, and all of them are optimistic," Carlisle said in a phone interview with The Associated Press. "As difficult as the last few seasons have been, we all think we're a lot closer to being right back in the thick of things in the Eastern Conference than a lot of people think."

Carlisle said he never approached Bird about his comments.

"I've talked to both of those guys (Bird and Walsh) extensively and it never came up," he said. "I didn't bring it up and they didn't bring it up. Our conversations have been constructive and upbeat."

Indiana entered the season with championship aspirations, but the Ron Artest trade and injuries to Jermaine O'Neal, Peja Stojakovic, Jamaal Tinsley and others were hard to overcome. The Pacers lost to New Jersey in the first round of the playoffs.

Walsh said he carefully listened to Bird's comments and had no problem with them.

"Larry Bird made it very clear that Rick's our coach," Walsh said. "He wasn't laying anything off on Rick. He took responsibility, as well as I do, for the way our team is."

One change that will come, Walsh said, is that players will know for certain which behaviors are unacceptable. He said he will join Bird in helping Carlisle with disciplinary matters.

"I think our involvement is we set the rules on how we want the team to conduct itself and make it clear what we expect," he said.

Carlisle has a regular-season record of 146-100 in three years with the Pacers. He has made the playoffs each season and reached the Eastern Conference finals in 2004.

"I feel very good about being here and very good about what has been accomplished," he said.

Will Galen
06-01-2006, 06:00 PM
It appears to me that Bird blames himself as much as Rick for last seasons troubles. That's good, but I still want a new offence even if Rick is the coach.

Tom White
06-01-2006, 06:03 PM
This is all sounding more and more like there will be no real changes.

That thought is disappointing.

rexnom
06-01-2006, 06:13 PM
Just to clarify things. Was Rick really in charge of our 99-00 offense? Can he realistically re-create that sort of flow, ball-movement, and chemistry?

Unclebuck
06-01-2006, 06:20 PM
Just to clarify things. Was Rick really in charge of our 99-00 offense? Can he realistically re-create that sort of flow, ball-movement, and chemistry?



Yes he was

And yes he can, I have 100% confidence that he can, if the right players are acquired. We've seen signs of it the past two seasons when Artest and JO have been out.

We'll never play like the Suns, but within the halfcourt I think Rick can and will adjust the offense.

Of course 75% of you won't like whatever Rick does at this point, so the forum won't be much fun anymore

rexnom
06-01-2006, 06:23 PM
Yes he was

And yes he can, I have 100% confidence that he can, if the right players are acquired. We've seen signs of it the past two seasons when Artest and JO have been out.

We'll never play like the Suns, but within the halfcourt I think Rick can and will adjust the offense.

Of course 75% of you won't like whatever Rick does at this point, so the forum won't be much fun anymore
I have confidence in Rick too. I do.

My only criticism is favoritism. If it's true that he took out his anger on David and Danny instead of Jack among others then I would be very disappointed. It's always easy to pick on the kids. Also easy to break them forever if you are too hard; see Kwame.

Unclebuck
06-01-2006, 06:26 PM
I have confidence in Rick too. I do.

My only criticism is favoritism. If it's true that he took out his anger on David and Danny instead of Jack among others then I would be very disappointed. It's always easy to pick on the kids. Also easy to break them forever if you are too hard; see Kwame.



I think David and Danny do not belong in the same sentence, and I think Rick deservedly so treats them differently from eachother

rexnom
06-01-2006, 06:37 PM
I think David and Danny do not belong in the same sentence, and I think Rick deservedly so treats them differently from eachother
Fair point. I think we're all concerned about Danny anyways. I did not like the way Jack got on him in the NJ series. Now I don't care if Rick gets on Danny like that. (I kinda hope he does). But he better get on the vets too. Whatever happened to lead by example?

CableKC
06-01-2006, 07:41 PM
One change that will come, Walsh said, is that players will know for certain which behaviors are unacceptable. He said he will join Bird in helping Carlisle with disciplinary matters.

"I think our involvement is we set the rules on how we want the team to conduct itself and make it clear what we expect," he said.

Good thing that Walsh, Bird and Carlisle aren't firemen....they would show up to a fire with a glass of water after the house burns down. :rolleyes:

jcouts
06-01-2006, 08:29 PM
Fair point. I think we're all concerned about Danny anyways. I did not like the way Jack got on him in the NJ series. Now I don't care if Rick gets on Danny like that. (I kinda hope he does). But he better get on the vets too. Whatever happened to lead by example?

lead by example retired before last season...

Robertmto
06-01-2006, 08:32 PM
Here's the new offense. Run the princeton system ans start

JO/DG/Peja/?/AJ

SoupIsGood
06-01-2006, 10:02 PM
Yes he was

And yes he can, I have 100% confidence that he can, if the right players are acquired. We've seen signs of it the past two seasons when Artest and JO have been out.

We'll never play like the Suns, but within the halfcourt I think Rick can and will adjust the offense.

Of course 75% of you won't like whatever Rick does at this point, so the forum won't be much fun anymore

Whatever happened to you wanting him fired?

Unclebuck
06-01-2006, 10:11 PM
Whatever happened to you wanting him fired?



I still do, but not fore any of the reasons you suggest.

He lost the team (IMO due to no fault of his own) but when that happens, the coach needs to be replaced. I also am a huge believer in the 3 or maybe 4 year rule. The past two seasons too much has happened to thois team.

But I also said in my post when I discussed all this that if TPTB plan on changing about 7 or 8 players, that I would have no problem personally if Rick came back, even though this forum would be unbearable

Young
06-01-2006, 10:20 PM
I still do, but not fore any of the reasons you suggest.

He lost the team (IMO due to no fault of his own) but when that happens, the coach needs to be replaced. I also am a huge believer in the 3 or maybe 4 year rule.

But I also said in my post when I discussed all this that if TPTB plan on changing about 7 or 8 players, that I would have no problem personally if Rick came back, even though this forum would be unbearable

I agree with pretty much everything you said here UB. Although I wouldn't say I want Rick to be replaced, because I like him and I know he is one of the best coaches in the league, I think he almost has to be replaced because, like you said, he seemed to have lost the team.

Just for the record, I am sick and tired of people complaining about David's lack of playing time. I have never understood why people think David is such a great asset, just because he is tall and wide big deal, nor do I understand why people think he should get a lot of minuates. David sucks. It is that simple. He just sucks right now. He might good down the road, but right now he flat out sucks. Rick coaches to win. Maybe David would be a better player if he got more playing time, but the team wouldn't be better if David played more. I just had to get this off my chest.

Jermaniac
06-01-2006, 10:23 PM
Another bad move by Larry Bird. Should have fired him Larry.

One more season of ****ty offense and acting like we play good defense. YAY. 41 wins with Rick Carlisle here we come.

SoupIsGood
06-01-2006, 10:23 PM
I still do, but not fore any of the reasons you suggest.

He lost the team (IMO due to no fault of his own) but when that happens, the coach needs to be replaced. I also am a huge believer in the 3 or maybe 4 year rule. The past two seasons too much has happened to thois team.

But I also said in my post when I discussed all this that if TPTB plan on changing about 7 or 8 players, that I would have no problem personally if Rick came back, even though this forum would be unbearable


So the fact that he b!tches at David and Danny all the time, but never says a words to Jack doesn't even bother you?

His treatment of young players, combined with the fact that our team is inevitably going to have to go young, is why I want him out.

ChicagoJ
06-01-2006, 10:42 PM
I also am a huge believer in the 3 or maybe 4 year rule. The past two seasons too much has happened to thois team.

Since when? I thought you were one of the ones that would mock me when I'd suggest that.

ChicagoJ
06-01-2006, 10:50 PM
Maybe David would be a better player if he got more playing time, but the team wouldn't be better if David played more. I just had to get this off my chest.

The rest of your rant is fine, but this is crazy.

Even in the faster, more athletic, perimeter oriented NBA, having a legit center is still an important asset. Now I don't know if David is really mobile enough or not. But in a league without many legit centers, David has the potential to be top-five/ten center once he learns not to use his hands defensively. But the only way he's going to do that is with game experience. Which is why he gets so frustrated with the officials for his foul trouble, because he knows that with Rick around he fouls out with three or occasionally four fouls.

So I understand that you are saying that having David develop into a top-five/ten center won't help the Pacers? Wow.

If that's your position, that's fine. I assume you disagree with the premise that JO needs to play with a bigger post player to be at his best. The Pacers would clearly be better with *any* center that is at least a bigger guy than JO (yes, I think Jerome James is a serious upgrade over Foster, since Foster is such a skinny, no-contact wimp that survives solely on his quickness while exposing JO to excessive physical abuse.)

pacerwaala
06-01-2006, 11:07 PM
lead by example retired before last season...


thats classic!

Young
06-02-2006, 12:07 AM
The rest of your rant is fine, but this is crazy.

Even in the faster, more athletic, perimeter oriented NBA, having a legit center is still an important asset. Now I don't know if David is really mobile enough or not. But in a league without many legit centers, David has the potential to be top-five/ten center once he learns not to use his hands defensively. But the only way he's going to do that is with game experience. Which is why he gets so frustrated with the officials for his foul trouble, because he knows that with Rick around he fouls out with three or occasionally four fouls.

So I understand that you are saying that having David develop into a top-five/ten center won't help the Pacers? Wow.

Here is what I meant.

David is not ready to play big time NBA minuates at the moment. He hurts the team most of the time when he plays. So therefore, he is not helping the Pacers.

Now if he played now, and developed quicker, would that help the Pacers in the future? Of course but I am not talking about the future. I am talking about the present time. At the present time, David doesn't help the team when he is playing.

I hope that explains what I meant.

indytoad
06-02-2006, 12:14 AM
So I understand that you are saying that having David develop into a top-five/ten center won't help the Pacers? Wow.

That doesn't seem very realistic.

IndyToad
Presenting Wendy's

Peck
06-02-2006, 01:21 AM
Well that article certainly put a damper on my evening.

Why do I have this bad feeling that the good will & optomism being expressed to each other by tptb & the coach are all about injurys?

Bball
06-02-2006, 03:00 AM
Well that article certainly put a damper on my evening.

Why do I have this bad feeling that the good will & optomism being expressed to each other by tptb & the coach are all about injurys?

Never forget, we made the playoffs and won a couple of games even. Mission accomplished?

-Bball

Hoop
06-02-2006, 03:15 AM
Never forget, we made the playoffs and won a couple of games even. Mission accomplished?

-BballHonestly, should we have done any better with the number of different starting lineups we've had the last two seasons? How many games would most teams win with 3 or 4 starters out most of the season?

Carlisle gets waaaaay to much blame in my opinion, he didn't put this team together, he didn't injury them or make them go nuts.

RWB
06-02-2006, 07:18 AM
Here is what I meant.
David is not ready to play big time NBA minuates at the moment. He hurts the team most of the time when he plays. So therefore, he is not helping the Pacers.


Agreed, David doesn't come close to the scoring prowess of Scot and can't match Jeff's intensity at being backed down by bigger centers. :rolleyes:

Gotta disagree with you on this one Rommie. And yes put me down as a member of the Harrison (not fan club) but learning club. Harrison can and will have an impact (Jay) given the opportunity.

Slick Pinkham
06-02-2006, 09:08 AM
Well that article certainly put a damper on my evening.

Why do I have this bad feeling that the good will & optomism being expressed to each other by tptb & the coach are all about injurys?

It is worth noting that the Heat may have had more injury problems than the Pacers during the regular season:

Shaq: >1 month
Zo: 1 month
J-Will: 2 months, hobbled MOST of the year
Posey: >1 month
Wade: 7 games

They didn't seem to use it as a crutch so easily.

rexnom
06-02-2006, 09:13 AM
It is worth noting that the Heat may have had more injury problems than the Pacers during the regular season:

Shaq: >1 month
Zo: 1 month
J-Will: 2 months, hobbled MOST of the year
Posey: >1 month
Wade: 7 games

They didn't seem to use it as a crutch so easily.
I'm not one to blame solely injuries BUT...it's also timing. I mean, come on, JO gets injured the game before we trade for Peja? I mean, really. They never had a real chance to click. Also, the Heat have been relatively healthy for virtually the entire playoffs.

Slick Pinkham
06-02-2006, 09:29 AM
The Heat have been relatively healthy for virtually the entire playoffs.

But they somehow avoided a 0.500 season.

Zo and Posey missing the first round and J-Will playing at 50% is comparable to losing Peja for the 1st round.

indygeezer
06-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Question:

If you replace our starting gaurds (Tins and Jax) with comparable reliable talent, how much better of a coach is Rick.
IOW...without the hotheaded knuckleheadness how much does RC really lose the team? How much more effective AND CONSISTANT is the offense/defense.
I detest RC's micromanaging, but....

They talk about players making players around them better, well, is this a case of the players making the coach look worse than he is?

Young
06-02-2006, 11:55 AM
Agreed, David doesn't come close to the scoring prowess of Scot and can't match Jeff's intensity at being backed down by bigger centers. :rolleyes:

Gotta disagree with you on this one Rommie. And yes put me down as a member of the Harrison (not fan club) but learning club. Harrison can and will have an impact (Jay) given the opportunity.

Are you saying that David is a better player than Jeff or and Scot? I will say David is better on offense, but on defense, Jeff and Scot are way better than David. Even if Jeff gets backed down by bigger centers I still don't think David does better, I think he does worse.

Bball
06-02-2006, 12:01 PM
They talk about players making players around them better, well, is this a case of the players making the coach look worse than he is?

Yes... I'd say so...

-Bball

microwave_oven
06-02-2006, 12:01 PM
If David had a personal big man coach to help him, then I think that we would have a top 5 center on our team. Simply put, he needs one-on-one instruction. There is not one person on this team or its staff that could help David develop the way he should.

McKeyFan
06-02-2006, 12:02 PM
"One change that will come, Walsh said, is that players will know for certain which behaviors are unacceptable. He said he will join Bird in helping Carlisle with disciplinary matters."


This comment kind of makes me want to puke.

Disciplinary actions for the idiotic behavior on our team last year should have occurred immediately. It's like giving a kid a paddling three months after he ran across the street. There is too long of a time period for it to work. The actions must come immediately.

Whatever we had going on in that particular system, it was clearly broken. It can't be fixed. Personnel, on one side or the other, must be changed to fix it.

This is very troubling to me.

Bball
06-02-2006, 12:08 PM
"One change that will come, Walsh said, is that players will know for certain which behaviors are unacceptable. He said he will join Bird in helping Carlisle with disciplinary matters."


This comment kind of makes me want to puke.

Disciplinary actions for the idiotic behavior on our team last year should have occurred immediately. It's like giving a kid a paddling three months after he ran across the street. There is too long of a time period for it to work. The actions must come immediately.

Whatever we had going on in that particular system, it was clearly broken. It can't be fixed. Personnel, on one side or the other, must be changed to fix it.

This is very troubling to me.

I'd agree... unless the punishment/signal that is sent is a player (or more) sent packing for past discretions. If it's just a new line in the sand being drawn, and no heads rolling, then the effectiveness will be limited and probably more situations will arise that are troubling IMHO.

-Bball

RWB
06-02-2006, 12:22 PM
Are you saying that David is a better player than Jeff or and Scot? I will say David is better on offense, but on defense, Jeff and Scot are way better than David. Even if Jeff gets backed down by bigger centers I still don't think David does better, I think he does worse.

At this point is David better????No, but the question is by how much? Personally I think the margin is small and in a short amount of time that gap will be closed and surpassed.

It appears you already agree David has an edge on the offensive end. I will say Scot does a great job in handling big men and I believe because of David's body he is our best bet at doing the same. Jeff just gets pushed around too easily.

I like Jeff and would agree David has a long way in improving his rebounding compared to Jeff. However, David has shown he is more than willing to box someone out (once again that big body) and let someone else come in for the rebound. David willing set's screens (ok, I know someone needs to show him the proper technique) but the desire is there.

Bottom line is the man has additional skills to work with, while Jeff and Scot have maxed out unless Jeff can prove me wrong by adding a jumper.

indygeezer
06-02-2006, 12:23 PM
I'd agree... unless the punishment/signal that is sent is a player (or more) sent packing for past discretions. If it's just a new line in the sand being drawn, and no heads rolling, then the effectiveness will be limited and probably more situations will arise that are troubling IMHO.

-Bball


If TPTB institute a new "Code of Conduct" doesn't that go even further into undermining RC's status as a Manager? Isn't that saying..."he can't handle you so we will" ? It would be different had he been disciplining the players and they still ignored him but, they have stated he didn't handle the situation well and so by stepping in, they throw him a bit further under the bus IMO. They should coach him in private was to what they expect and how they expect it to be handled...but allow him to be the face of the disciplin. Otherwise, they should just let him go and start over with someone that CAN handle it.

Bball
06-03-2006, 01:24 AM
If TPTB institute a new "Code of Conduct" doesn't that go even further into undermining RC's status as a Manager? Isn't that saying..."he can't handle you so we will" ? It would be different had he been disciplining the players and they still ignored him but, they have stated he didn't handle the situation well and so by stepping in, they throw him a bit further under the bus IMO. They should coach him in private was to what they expect and how they expect it to be handled...but allow him to be the face of the disciplin. Otherwise, they should just let him go and start over with someone that CAN handle it.

Maybe Bird and/or Walsh feels they failed Carlisle?

-Bball