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Shade
05-30-2006, 08:12 PM
I think everybody wants some changes, but those changes seem to vary greatly from person to person.

So, if you had the power, how would you fix the Pacers? Would you shoot for a short-term or long-term fix? Would you be content with being competitive for a few years in hopes of breaking through and winning a title, or would you go for a major gamble and hope it pays off?

Detail what you would do to fix the Pacers this offseason. Realistic scenarios only, please. ;)

Jermaniac
05-30-2006, 08:26 PM
PG-Jamaal Tinsley
SG-Trenton Hassell
SF-Peja Stojakovic
PF-Jermaine O'Neal
C-Nazr Mohammed
6th man - Danny Granger

Fixed

Lord Helmet
05-30-2006, 08:39 PM
I'd probably try to get the best for Tinsley and Jackson.

Jermaniac
05-30-2006, 08:45 PM
Ohh how the hell did I forget.

Coach - Anyone but Rick Carlisle

purdue101
05-30-2006, 08:53 PM
i agree with jermaniac.

we'll never get decent value for tinsley, so i would rather just keep him and cross our fingers. i want to see peja, freddie, & pollard resigned.

trade foster for trenton hassell. jax for swift or pj brown. throw in AJ if need be on either trade.

draft kyle lowry.

give all back-up mins at SF & PF to granger

pg: tinsley/saras/lowry
sg: hassell/freddie
sf: peja/DG
pf: jo/DG/cro
c: brown or swift/harrison/pollard

Kaufman
05-30-2006, 09:07 PM
Hi guys -

Here is my two cents.

I tend to agree with Bill Polian in a lot of senses. When you make a trade, it can often turn out to be acquiring someone else's problems. Remember - there is a reason the person that a team is acquiring is for sale in the first place. Do you really want that??? Food for thought.

I guess I sit and fantasize about the teams of the 1990's. The 1995 team for instance. Mark Jackson, Reggie, Derrick McKey, DD, and Rik. 3/5 of the players were players WE drafted. Now lets look at this last year's starters. AJ, Jackson, O'Neal, Peja, and lets say Foster. 1/5 were drafted by us. Basically I feel that we need to build through the draft.

We've got a great draft mind in Walsh and he does have a pretty good turnaround in the people he drafts. So my answer to rebuilding comes in drafting quality players who can help out and be good character guys.

I'm not saying that trading for people doesn't work out. I am not at all. But sometimes it just seems suboptimal.

Bball
05-30-2006, 09:49 PM
Hi guys -

Here is my two cents.

I tend to agree with Bill Polian in a lot of senses. When you make a trade, it can often turn out to be acquiring someone else's problems. Remember - there is a reason the person that a team is acquiring is for sale in the first place. Do you really want that??? Food for thought.



In basketball there can be other reasons a player is traded besides being someone else's garbage (well, it's true of any sport but basketball can't put as many people on the shelf as football can). So, it's possible an NBA player could be available because a younger/different player has simply eclipsed him on the team. But that doesn't mean the guy can't help your team.

Maybe you are overloaded at a position someone else is thin at. If you have someone they really want you can be picky about who you get back... it doesn't have to be a player with a problem.

And I still believe that sometimes a team SHOULD make trades simply for the sake of trading. Obviously these kind of trades are at the fringes but maybe you find a diamond in the rough. Maybe that 4th PG at the end of the bench has gotten you nothing, but trading him for a journeyman bigman might give you some options down the road and some veteran lockerroom presence. And keep things from getting too stale.

-Bball

Kaufman
05-30-2006, 10:07 PM
And Bball, I agree with you. From that same 95 team I think Derrick McKey was an integral part of the team, as well as the likes of Byron Scott and Mark Jackson... all integral players. I just think the core of this team should be built through the draft, I think it is OK to have filler with trades. Maybe I'd like to see us draft a franchise type player that can grow up with the pacers, as opposed to getting someone from another team. It seems so much easier to embrace a guy who starts with you.

ChicagoJ
05-30-2006, 10:30 PM
As Irwin Fletcher might say,


"A little spackling and some napalm, and this place would make a great mausoleum."

That's what I'd do, spackling and napalm.

beast23
05-30-2006, 11:25 PM
I don't necessarily believe that a team is best built from its own draft choices. That's one way to do it, if you have the patience... and you are chosing high enough in the draft that you have a reasonable expectation of selecting potential starters.

Unfortunately, I believe the Pacers find themselves in a Catch-22 at this time. They have fans that want a contender as soon as possible, because that's what they've come to expect in the countless good years throughout Reggie's entire career. BUT... I also believe that the Indy fans best identify with a team that is comprised of "OUR" players. Those players that we have drafted and who have spent their entire careers on the roster of our team.

For the quickest possible means of becoming a contender once again, I would not try to "do it all at once". We have 3 positions that need work - C, SG and PG. I would target 2 (C, PG) of the 3 positions this summer by seeking new players.

So, my priorities are:
1. Re-sign Peja ASAP.
2. Trade Tinsley with a sign-and-trade of Freddie to move up in the draft to draft our future PG.
3. Trade Jackson + ??? for either Nazr Mohammed or Z Ilgauskus
4. Use full MLE to sign one decent perimeter shooter, preferably SG.
5. Fill in the roster with scrubs.

Roster:
C - Mohammed or Ilgauskus; Harrison
PF - O'Neal; Croshere
SF - Granger/Peja; Draft Pick #2; scrub
SG - Peja/Granger; MLE Player
PG - AJ; Draft Pick #1; Saras or scrub

Foster might need to be used as the player to be traded with Jackson. I believe this would solidify C, PF and SF with starters. Draft Pick #1 would eventually become the starting PG, when ready. The MLE player would have to be a decent enough player to play major minutes if Peja/Danny experience problems at SG. More than likely, the trade for Mohammed or Ilgauskus would also bring back a scrub that can be used for fill-in at one of the perimeter positions.


At the trading deadline, if Croshere can be used to acquire a good SG, then do it. Otherwise, address the SG with the 2007 draft.

It's not perfect, and it leaves very little depth. But it's a start.

Young
05-30-2006, 11:30 PM
How would I fix this team? Hmm....

So, lets take a look at the coaching staff first.

I stood up for Rick Carlise early on in the off season when some posters made some unfair comments about Rick saying we needed a change because Rick sucks or whatever the reasons were. Well Rick is a great coach. I still believe that and I still won't be pissed if he is the coach next season. However, i'm very concerned with the fact that the team may have already tuned him out and I don't want a coach who is not listened to, no matter how good he is.

So, who would I want to replace him? Rick Aldeman or Don Nelson are the most proven coaches and both would make good choices. Not perfect coaches as neither focus on defense or rebounding enough but we could do much worse. Another name to think about is Michael Cooper.

Now, I want to look at the roster.

This team is a mess. The first thing I would shake up is the backcourt. I would get rid of Jamaal Tinsley and Stephen Jackson ASAP. Here is an idea for each player.

For Stephen Jackson.
Pacers Get: Ruben Patterson/Mavs 07 1rst.
Nuggets Get: Stephen Jackson
We get an expiering and a pick. The Nuggets get a shooter and good 2 guard they so badly need.

For Jamaal Tinsley.
Pacers Get: Malik Rose
Knicks Get: Jamaal Tinsley
We do bad in this trade if you look at the talent we trade and the lack of talent we get back but we save a lot of money by doing this trade. I do like Malik's game. You can't question his heart. New York does this because they are rumored to want a point guard who can pass, Tinsley is just that.

Another trade to think about is either Tinsley or Jackson going to the Cavs for Luke Jackson and Ira Newble. Rather or not the Cavs would do it is a different story, who knows?

In the draft I take Jordan Farmar at 17, or Serigo Rodriguez. The Pacers need a playermaker and Farmar and Rodriguez are the best in this draft, IMO. They aren't the best all around point guards but I think that both are the best "floor generals" you could say. Then at 45 i'd go with Steve Novak. I think that he is the best shooter in this draft, right up there with JJ. I'd also consider Yotam Halperin with this pick too.

As far as free agency goes, i'd say we re-sign Peja but that is about it IMO. Let Freddie go, unless he will cost less than 3 million per year, let Pollard go because we have others to play center, and let Gill go because we don't use him for anything really.

I'd probably look to trade AJ since I would keep Saras and draft a point guard. I'd still sign another point guard, a veteran one, but not one who will command big minuates.

Lord Helmet
05-30-2006, 11:36 PM
How would I fix this team? Hmm....

So, lets take a look at the coaching staff first.

I stood up for Rick Carlise early on in the off season when some posters made some unfair comments about Rick saying we needed a change because Rick sucks or whatever the reasons were. Well Rick is a great coach. I still believe that and I still won't be pissed if he is the coach next season. However, i'm very concerned with the fact that the team may have already tuned him out and I don't want a coach who is not listened to, no matter how good he is.

So, who would I want to replace him? Rick Aldeman or Don Nelson are the most proven coaches and both would make good choices. Not perfect coaches as neither focus on defense or rebounding enough but we could do much worse. Another name to think about is Michael Cooper.

Now, I want to look at the roster.

This team is a mess. The first thing I would shake up is the backcourt. I would get rid of Jamaal Tinsley and Stephen Jackson ASAP. Here is an idea for each player.

For Stephen Jackson.
Pacers Get: Ruben Patterson/Mavs 07 1rst.
Nuggets Get: Stephen Jackson
We get an expiering and a pick. The Nuggets get a shooter and good 2 guard they so badly need.

For Jamaal Tinsley.
Pacers Get: Malik Rose
Knicks Get: Jamaal Tinsley
We do bad in this trade if you look at the talent we trade and the lack of talent we get back but we save a lot of money by doing this trade. I do like Malik's game. You can't question his heart. New York does this because they are rumored to want a point guard who can pass, Tinsley is just that.

Another trade to think about is either Tinsley or Jackson going to the Cavs for Luke Jackson and Ira Newble. Rather or not the Cavs would do it is a different story, who knows?

In the draft I take Jordan Farmar at 17, or Serigo Rodriguez. The Pacers need a playermaker and Farmar and Rodriguez are the best in this draft, IMO. They aren't the best all around point guards but I think that both are the best "floor generals" you could say. Then at 45 i'd go with Steve Novak. I think that he is the best shooter in this draft, right up there with JJ. I'd also consider Yotam Halperin with this pick too.

As far as free agency goes, i'd say we re-sign Peja but that is about it IMO. Let Freddie go, unless he will cost less than 3 million per year, let Pollard go because we have others to play center, and let Gill go because we don't use him for anything really.

I'd probably look to trade AJ since I would keep Saras and draft a point guard. I'd still sign another point guard, a veteran one, but not one who will command big minuates.
I don't agree with looking to trade AJ. I just think he's been too vital to this team.

He's a given that he'll be ready to play one of the most important positions on the team at the PG spot. And he can play it being safe and not getting too many turnovers.

If Saras can learn to hold onto the ball better and learn to get the ball up the court with a lot more ease over the off-season, I'd be fine with AJ then Saras backing him.

8.9_seconds
05-31-2006, 12:16 AM
It would be a complete slap in the Face to AJ to trade him now.

ENTER BROKEN RECORD HERE:

Sorry, but why don't we use Scot as a Prime Back up?

ChicagoJ
05-31-2006, 12:18 AM
Scot can't play more than one-two games in a two week stretch without hurting his back.

As for AJ, his trade value will never be higher and he still can't really run an offense. I'd much rather have JO shooting than AJ.

Young
05-31-2006, 12:21 AM
I don't agree with looking to trade AJ. I just think he's been too vital to this team.

He's a given that he'll be ready to play one of the most important positions on the team at the PG spot. And he can play it being safe and not getting too many turnovers.

If Saras can learn to hold onto the ball better and learn to get the ball up the court with a lot more ease over the off-season, I'd be fine with AJ then Saras backing him.

I am not opposed to keeping AJ. He played great, it is hard to even consider trading him.

But I think that because the Pacers need to draft a point guard this year, and with Saras that they might be better off giving the keys to these guys and trading AJ for maybe a shooting guard, if possiable.

Again though, I am not opposed to keeping AJ by any means. I just think that since this team is a few years away from competing, that it might be wise to give the keys to Saras and Farmar (assuming we draft him, which in my scenario we do, but rather we do in real life is another story of course.)

Bball
05-31-2006, 12:24 AM
I'd lock DW and Bird in a room and tell them to hammer out something on paper as to exactly what they ultimately see this team as being. Then they can start discussing how the existing pieces fit into that plan.

And while I don't believe in 'exacts' when it comes to a plan, there shouldn't be endless patience waiting on it to come together either. IOW, set some goals for where they expect the team to be this year, next year, the year after.... etc.. SOME of this may already be in place but some of this is clearly not. You can't have Bird talking about differences of opinion about Saras' role between he and the coach nor can you have Bird talking about wanting to see the Pacers play a more 'Euro' style of ball while Carlisle clearly coaches a different way. TPTB MUST get on the same page FIRST and FOREMOST.

The next thing is the housecleaning of players. Tinsley has to be gone. I don't like his attitude BUT even if you can excuse it and blame it on a souring coach/player relationship there is still the issue of his injuries. I'm a firm believer that a player can't help you if he's hurt. Historically, the Pacers wait too long to pull the plug on these type of problems. Tinsley's constantly hurt... move on.

Sjax... Whether a different system or coach could make something of Sjax and cure some of the problems fans have with him is probably a moot point. It's too late and these Pacers don't have the margin of error.

Therefore, Tinsley and Sjax would be on the short list of players that I'd basically trade for the best offer. That might be a sack of chips.

I'd consider trading AJ for the right deal. I'd want to see where his trade value is after this past season. We pretty much know he's maxed out his potential and he is the 'devil we know' so I would only move him if we clearly felt someone was overvaluing him.

JO... I'd certainly not consider him off limits. We keep waiting on the 'lightbulb' game where he 'gets it' and he keeps getting older without it happening. I don't trade him for peanuts, but I might not have to have KG either. I consider JO an expensive failure. If we are stuck with him, and he can't find that lightbulb game, then the coaches need to carve out a different role for him. The days of pretending he's a one man wrecking crew in the paint are over.

Big man coach... Some have talked of a big man coach for Harrison. I'm fine with that... and have JO join him in the classroom.

I'd resign Peja altho I suppose there might be a number/amount of years that I'd balk at. Peja is a well-rounded player and he shares the ball even tho he is the best shooter on the team. We need more players like that setting an example, not less.

Freddie can walk. Too short and too limited. I find it hard to believe we couldn't pick up someone else that could do his role just as well without the fundamental flaws.

Foster... to the bench. Harrison starts the season as the starter. I'd trade Foster if I needed to in a sweetener to get rid of Tins and/or Sjax if it improves the offers.

Pollard. At the vet minimum he'd be back AND I'd consider him as the starter if Harrison doesn't come along.

Croshere... undecided. (See below).

Granger is 6th man...

At the least I see us needing a new SG no matter what.

My issue with Cro is a numbers game situation. I don't want a lot of depth. I think it runs counter to good chemistry on the court. Give me 5 starters able to play their natural positions and 3 subs (Swingman, C/PF, and a combo guard would be ideal). Depending what happens with Foster and Pollard and what's out there in the draft, FA, trades... and what Cro has to have... Cro could be odd man out.

Also, I agree with the idea that fans like to see the team develop our own players, and that we need to keep our eyes on good character. I still think it's a travesty we let James Jones go for a second round pick. If he can get a consistent role for a WCF team, I think he could have a role on the Pacers... and certainly could've hung around Pacerland another season and garnered more in a later trade.

I still don't see how Carlisle can be coming back IF we are talking about basketball terms. OTOH, if money is brought into the equation... then... maybe we see a little better what is up.

Also, I never, ever, want to see this total reliance on "JO ball" ever again. Relegate it to the scrapheap of Pacer history. He's not the cornerstone of the franchise, he's not a leader, he's a good player with several flaws and maybe that big man coach we get for Harrison can teach JO a thing or two.

As for the argument that we don't want to trade JO for someone allegedly soft... ummmm JO is no brick himself... tho he can toss up a few bricks in the 4th quarter of a close game.

But I'm not saying we have to trade JO... just yet... but we need to stop overvaluing him and misusing him. Reduce his role and let's become less predicatable.

-Bball

8.9_seconds
05-31-2006, 12:24 AM
Scot can't play more than one-two games in a two week stretch without hurting his back.



HA! Scot has probably never played that much as a Pacer...under Rick that is. Unfounded, you have been rejected.

Bball
05-31-2006, 12:26 AM
Scot can't play more than one-two games in a two week stretch without hurting his back.

As for AJ, his trade value will never be higher and he still can't really run an offense. I'd much rather have JO shooting than AJ.

I've come to believe Scot's appearances and disappearances were dictated more by Carlisle's preferences rather than Pollard's back injury.

-Bball

SoupIsGood
05-31-2006, 12:50 AM
We need to focus on developing some young talent. However, we've also got to keep JO so that we don't outright suck. Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to sucking really badly for a few years, but Donnie Walsh isn't going to do that, and he probably knows more about this than I do. After all, it's pretty easy to get stuck in the lottery for years on end.


First, though, we have to get the cap situation under better control. That starts with not handing out stupid contracts. Let Peja walk. Hold on to contracts like Cro's unless they become usefull in a 'can't miss' trade. But ideally let his contract (and also Bender's if it still counts against the cap) expire in a year. The important thing here is NO MORE DUMB CONTRACTS.

That said, keep Fred only if he comes cheap. I'm thinking that he will.

Keep Pollard at the vet's minimum. I really think he is a positive force for this team, even if he never plays.

In the draft, do what we can to draft the two Spanish kids - Rudy Fernandez and Sergio Rodriguez. I really like both of these guys, and they are still young. If we're lucky, one slips to the second round and we do some moving around to get him, while drafting the other at #17. Stash both of them in Spain for a year or two so that they can develop and not be forced into the poisonous environment that we are in the process of eliminating over here.

By the time they come over, we've hopefully converted to the type of Euroballish team that Bird envisions, and they've hopefully gotten better and stronger. Coming over to the USA and playing a style familar to them might help them greatly. But DON'T bring them over until we've gotten rid of the cancers and created a positive culture within the team.

Normally I'd feel bad about not getting anything immediate out of the draft, but this draft really sucks anyway.

Next, let Rick go. I don't exactly have anything against him, this team just doesn't fit him anymore. We need to try someone new, someone who focuses more on offense and learning the fundamentals of the game. I'm not sure who to try here - maybe Adelman? We could give a well-known assitant a chance too. Whatever Donnie and Larry think would work.

Keep Chuck Person, though! I really like him. Heck, would he be a possible coaching candidate? I don't really know anything about this, maybe someone can help me out.

Okay, now looking at the roster.

I think we should try to keep Saras, Granger, and Harrison. All of them are still developing as players and ought to be kept.

Tinsley and Jax need to go, but that's going to be hard without also sending Foster and AJ out. I hate to see those two go, but they're aging and probably near the peak of their value. I could see Jax/AJ and Foster/Tins pairings in seperate trades.

I'll see if I can cook up some made up trades with that real quick...



Outgoing

Stephen Jackson
6-8 SG from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
16.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.8 apg in 35.9 minutes

Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State
5.9 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 0.8 apg in 25.1 minutes

Anthony Johnson
6-3 PG from Charleston
9.2 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 4.3 apg in 26.4 minutes
Incoming

Jamaal Magloire
6-11 C from Kentucky
9.2 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 0.7 apg in 30.1 minutes

Dan Gadzuric
6-11 C from UCLA
5.2 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.0 minutes

Maurice Williams
6-1 PG from Alabama
12.1 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 26.4 minutes


Well, I changed from that plan a bit. It's the best I could do for right now though. Maybe the Bucks wouldn't do it, but it's the kind of trade we need. It gives us someone to plug at both PG and C. It gives the bucks three hard-working, defense-playing, experienced veterans... something they need IMO. We also take two bad contracts that I don't think they want anymore. (Mags doesn't like it there, they don't play Gadz anymore)

Can Tinsley be traded by himself? I think it might be possible. If some GM can be convinced that he could turn things around it might work, because he really is an amazing player at times. Something simple like Tinsley for Trenton Hassell would work for me.

Try to sign Jared Jeffries. :)

Which leaves us with

Magloire/Harrison/Pollard
O'Neal/Croshere
Granger/Jeffries
Hassel/Jones
Williams/Saras

with Fernandez and Rodriguez stashed overseas.

The team would still need a lot of work, but that comes in future drafts. Meanwhile, we remain a decent team who will probably still make the playoffs and such. :)


Also... give Jay Williams a look. Wasn't he recovering well? And think about offering AD a roster spot.

Ron who?
05-31-2006, 01:10 AM
I got 5 people i think we should draft in the first round if they fall far enough and this is how they go and the reasons...(in order of importance)
1. Rodney Carney (trade Peja & then Granger and Rodney can share the 3)
2. Shelden Williams (move JO up to center and then we can play a high pace game)
3. Mardy Collins (6'6 couldp lay back up for both guard positions)
4. JJ Redick ( Basically a mini Peja... meaning we can trade the real one)
5. Jordan Farmar (we got some real PG issues)

2nd round - either Dee Brown and i wouldnt mind Darius Washington

AND TRADING AJ IS A MUST HIS STOCK WILL NEVER BE ANY HIGHER
AND ALSO TRADING S-JAX WOULD BE GOOD

if we get Carney and Brown and trade S-Jax, AJ, Peja, foster 4 Andre Miller and Marcus Camby the line-up will look like...

PG- Andre Miller; Dee Brown
SG- Fred Jones; Carney
SF- Danny Granger; Carney
PF- JO; Austin Chroshere
C- Marcus Camby, Pollard

Ron who?
05-31-2006, 01:20 AM
o yeah and let tinsley go or do what Soupisgood said... trade him in a 1 on 1 deal or something hes gotta go

RWB
05-31-2006, 07:33 AM
We need to bring in some cheap veterans at the end of the bench. There was a reason someone like a Kevin Willis or Big Smooth could last in the league that long. Shut up, go to work, be a man, good example for some of the young ones (namely Granger and Harrison) on this team who still have a chance at being pretty good.

easyv_25
05-31-2006, 08:45 AM
Minnesota is looking to tradie their #6 draft pick for a Veteran player. I'd try to give Minn SJax and Tinsley both with some experience and draft either Rodney Carney/Marcus Williams at the #6. Or try to trade Chicago for either Hinrich or Gordon with AJ or FJones +Pacers #17 pick.

PG: MWilliams?/Hinrich/Jaskavicious
SG: BGrodon or RCarney?
SF: Peja or Granger
PF: JO/Harrison/Croshere
C: Foster(Trade)/ Resign Pollard/ pick up free-agent C?

pizza guy
05-31-2006, 09:30 AM
Also, I never, ever, want to see this total reliance on "JO ball" ever again. Relegate it to the scrapheap of Pacer history. He's not the cornerstone of the franchise, he's not a leader, he's a good player with several flaws and maybe that big man coach we get for Harrison can teach JO a thing or two.

As for the argument that we don't want to trade JO for someone allegedly soft... ummmm JO is no brick himself... tho he can toss up a few bricks in the 4th quarter of a close game.

But I'm not saying we have to trade JO... just yet... but we need to stop overvaluing him and misusing him. Reduce his role and let's become less predicatable.

100% right.

As for the rest of the roster...

JT and SJax are outta here. I really dont care much what we get back, just get rid of 'em.

Peja...I'm still undecided. I think I'd be upset to see him leave because he's a very good shooter, a veteran, and it would mean we essentially 'rented' him for Artest. However, I don't want to see us give him some ungodly contract that ties our hands for the rest of the FA market.

Scot and Eddie...eh, for as much as they play, I'm not sure if it would make a difference. Although, I understand both of them are great for chemistry and comradery, so I wouldn't mind having them back.

Honestly, if we could work out a deal that includes Foster and JT/SJ I'd like that. I like Hulk and I think he needs the PT to really blossom.

Freddie can walk. I don't like his game and I've not seen a lot of improvement in it, so, unless we sign and trade him, I don't want him signed.

I really like our frontcourt. JO, DG, and Hulk (and Peja if he's resigned is also very good). Those three (four) are really something to work with that I think can work very well. I really like that JO's dropping some weight to play exclusively at PF. I also really like the idea of DG spending a lot of time with Bird this summer to improve - I think we've got something REALLY special in Danger.

As far as the coach, I think I'd rather see a new guy in there, but if Carlisle is retained, I won't be as upset as say...Jermaniac.

As bad as this team looked, I think two moves NEED to be made, and then the rest either way.

btowncolt
05-31-2006, 09:34 AM
http://www.flipsigns.com/dynamite.gif

Since86
05-31-2006, 11:28 AM
HA! Scot has probably never played that much as a Pacer...under Rick that is. Unfounded, you have been rejected.

Unfounded? I guess you never read the articles saying Scot's back is messed up, and that he himself says he can't play everyday.

He sits on a fricking correction pad when he's on the bench. A regular chair makes his back hurt.

Unfounded? Hardly.

Bball
05-31-2006, 11:31 AM
Unfounded? I guess you never read the articles saying Scot's back is messed up, and that he himself says he can't play everyday.

He sits on a fricking correction pad when he's on the bench. A regular chair makes his back hurt.

Unfounded? Hardly.

He also says his back is best when he plays rather than sitting.

-Bball

ChicagoJ
05-31-2006, 11:34 AM
I think its safe to say Scot never recovered from his back injury late in his Sacramento days.

You can see the pain on his face - I think he gets a lot of credit for gutting it out but he's not capable of playing more than 30 or so games per year. Thus, he's been saved so he's available against teams with a big, legit center.

Since86
05-31-2006, 11:45 AM
He also says his back is best when he plays rather than sitting.

-Bball

If you're having severe back problems, aggervating it every other day for 6 months is going to cause some serious problems and pain.

I'd imagine his stiffness and soreness does go away, when it's rested and backup to the percentage that it's capable of operating at. Playing extended minutes in most games would never allow the proper rest an injured body part needs, and would only compound the problem.

He can play more than he does, but it would be foolish to think he could be a mainstay in the rotation.

Robertmto
05-31-2006, 01:06 PM
Try to sign Jared Jeffries. :)

That's one of the Wizards main priorities too. He's one of the few, maybe less than few, good defensive players we have. If we let JJ go I will be crushed.

SoupIsGood
05-31-2006, 01:14 PM
That's one of the Wizards main priorities too. He's one of the few, maybe less than few, good defensive players we have. If we let JJ go I will be crushed.

Yeah I figured so. :kickcan: He's restricted too, so we'd have to probably toss the entire MLE to get them to think about not matching...

CableKC
05-31-2006, 03:29 PM
Here is my "retool not rebuild" Offseason Plan.


1 ) Trade SJax and Tinsley for the best 3pt SG available that can at least provide adequate defense at the 1/2 spots along with any future draft 2007+ picks.
2 ) S&T Freddie to Toronto for Eric Williams + the 35th pick.
3 ) Offer Francisco Elson a "slightly above his Market Value" contract and make him our next Starting Center. He's cheap and IMHO is a young Dale Davis that can defend, provide interior defense, block shots and can man the paint while JONeal continues his transformation into Brad Miller.
4 ) 17th Pick = Unless another "unexpected Granger-like" pick drops to the 17th spot ( like Ronnie Brewer or Cedric Simmons ), draft Kyle Lowry / Mardy Collins / Rajon Rondo ( in that order...whoever is available first )
5 ) 35th Pick = Draft Steve Novak / Leon Powe / PJ Tucker / James White ( in that order...whoever is available at that pick )
6 ) 45th Pick = Draft Bobby Jones / Hassan Adams ( in that order....whoever is available first at that pick )
7 ) Ask Carlisle to take a front-office job and hire Mario Elie or Eric Mussellman ( in that order....whoever is available first ).

I'm more of a pessimist and don't believe that Ownership / Management has the will ( cuz they are cheap ) to actually fork out the money to get any of the Big Men or PGs that you all covet.

PG - AJ / Sarunas / Kyle Lowry or Mardy Collins or Rajon Rondo
SG - ???SG??? / Granger / Eric Williams / Bobby Jones
SF - Peja / Granger / Steve Novak
PF - JONeal / Foster / Granger / Croshere
C - Elson / Harrison

Granger is gonna get his 26-30 minutes a game by becoming the 6th Man off the Bench at the SG/SF positions. I think that we have a decent core to build around as long as we dropkick the undesirables to another team and get the necessary roleplayers to fill in the holes. I don't care if we actually downgrade our talent with players at those positions that we get back in return or even if they have huge contracts...as long as they are solid players that can fill a need.

I know that the PG and Center positions need an upgrade....but I feel that given our current lineup at the PG and Center spots, the liklihood that it would cost too much to actually upgrade at either position ( as in trade players that I don't want to move ) and my belief that the greatest need is to get perimeter defenders that can help guard/limit quick SGs that can penetrate......I would much rather spend what little resources ( $$$ or Draft Picks ) we have towards building a quicker perimeter and interior defense.

Shade
05-31-2006, 11:05 PM
Jeffries really came into his own in the playoffs. He had pretty much sucked from what I saw during the regular season.

8.9_seconds
05-31-2006, 11:15 PM
Unfounded? I guess you never read the articles saying Scot's back is messed up, and that he himself says he can't play everyday.

He sits on a fricking correction pad when he's on the bench. A regular chair makes his back hurt.

Unfounded? Hardly.


For the most part, I was just joking.I'm in my own little protect Scot world right now, I'm campaiging if you will.


Not to say that I don't agree with Bball; I agree with everyword he said.

Trader Joe
05-31-2006, 11:25 PM
IDK I would definetely trade Jack. And then I would try my damnedest to move up in the draft and get B. Roy. IDK about trading Tinsley what will we possibly get for him? Anything of use? Highly doubtful. If we bring in a new coach I say we keep Tins and cross our fingers that he was just pussing out on Carlisle. (That sounds weird hoping a player was quitting on a coach? These are dark times.)
So here is what I would try, in the end our players traded would be Jack our pick and probably Foster or Cro depending try and get in the top 10 and maybe Peja if that what it takes I love ROy. Get a new coach who will introduce ball movement into the offense. Resign Fred, try and get Jeffries which would be doubtful. Sign Polly the vet min. If we cant get jeffries go after Nazr

I wouldnt be upset if our starting lineup looked like this with a new coach:
Tins
Roy
Granger
JO
Nazr
If we get to keep Peja I guess its a plus as long as we can get him out of here in a year or two so Danny can take over.

beast23
05-31-2006, 11:30 PM
If the Pacers re-sign Pollard, an agreement should be made to help preserve his health:

1. He will not travel in the regular season.
2. It is hoped that he would be available to play in every home game, except in back-to-backs.
3. It is hoped that he would be available to play in all playoff games, home or away.

In other words, he would play in a maximum 41 regular season games plus all playoff games. He wouldn't be a starter, and he would not be played in home games that where the game is well in hand with a big lead.

Shade
05-31-2006, 11:31 PM
I have a feeling Scot will re-sign with the Kings or retire.

Robertmto
06-03-2006, 02:38 AM
Jeffries really came into his own in the playoffs. He had pretty much sucked from what I saw during the regular season.

His numbers suck, but he's amazing on defense. He guards the best player in and out every night.

Putnam
06-03-2006, 07:21 AM
If the Pacers re-sign Pollard, an agreement should be made to help preserve his health:

1. He will not travel in the regular season.
2. It is hoped that he would be available to play in every home game, except in back-to-backs.
3. It is hoped that he would be available to play in all playoff games, home or away.




Are you serious, oh, normally astute beast? Then how about:

4. And he will be required to participate only at one end of the court, so as to avoid the necessity of running or moving around too much.


The Pacers need durable, healthy players -- not broken down journeymen eking out the ends of their careers. I just looked at Pollard's career stats, and he has averaged 12.8 points per 48 minutes and 13.5 rebounds per 48 minutes. I admit that is pretty good. But only if the guy can play. Pollard can't stay healthy enough to perform, and that is the bottom line. Vet's minimum? Maybe. Special arrangement? No!



.

sixthman
06-03-2006, 10:37 AM
We've got a great draft mind in Walsh

Then why are only one in five of our starters, our own draft picks?

Walsh is good enough. Building from the draft is okay if your team has top draft picks. But if you're consistently drafting in the middle of the pack, you will get a Scot Haskins as often as you will get a Danny Granger.

beast23
06-03-2006, 11:03 AM
Are you serious, oh, normally astute beast? Then how about:

4. And he will be required to participate only at one end of the court, so as to avoid the necessity of running or moving around too much.


The Pacers need durable, healthy players -- not broken down journeymen eking out the ends of their careers. I just looked at Pollard's career stats, and he has averaged 12.8 points per 48 minutes and 13.5 rebounds per 48 minutes. I admit that is pretty good. But only if the guy can play. Pollard can't stay healthy enough to perform, and that is the bottom line. Vet's minimum? Maybe. Special arrangement? No!
I know, I know. You thought someone else was posting under my name. Right?

Actually, I was serious. I believe that our roster will be thinner going into next season. To get rid of Tinsley, for example, we will probably package a 2-for-1. We may end up going into next season with about 8 carryovers plus a draft choice.

We need speed in the backcourt to stop dribble penetration, while also being able to hit perimeter shots. We need a center that can shoot from 10-12 feet and many believe we also need better post defense.

We won't be able to acquire players that are well-rounded enough to cover all of our needs. For example, a center that can score from 10-12 feet while also being able to play decent post defense. No way will we get one unless we spend so much money and players in trade that we can't afford to also seek help for the backcourt.

In other words, the players we acquire will have their own set of flaws. For me, it is more important that we have a center that can hit 10-12 foot shots and open up the offense for JO a little than it is to have a center that is a superb defender.

But when it comes to centers, I believe our biggest problem defensively is guarding against true centers, not the power forwards that are pretending to be centers. And there just are not a lot of true centers left in the league that we have to worry about. And if I'm going to worry about a true center like Shaq, for example, his presence bothers me a lot more in the playoffs than it does during the season.

So many have said that we have built our team for the regular season and not the playoffs. I'm suggesting that we keep Pollard on the roster, do everything in our power to keep him game ready AND healthy, and use him where he can benefit us the most. In the playoffs, playing against front court big men that no one else on our roster have the ability to stop.

And quite frankly, with the way they are calling fouls whenever a player is even touched cutting through the paint, I'd be willing to fall on bended knees and beg Reggie to play one more season. As long as he cuts through the lane once or twice on every possession and he agrees to shoot the ball almost every time it is in his hands when he is open. We absolutely must have consistent perimeter shooting.

BoomBaby31
06-03-2006, 03:50 PM
I like what I'm seeing her. Sign Mohhamed, Sign Mohhamed, Sign Mohhamed. Here is how I would fix it Sign Peja, Sign Mohhamed, and draft a PG like Farmar. If all went well this is how it would break down and we would be instant contenders granted we stay healthy.

PG: Farmar/AJ
SG: Jack
SF: Peja/ Granger
PF: JO/ Croshere
C: Mohhamed/Foster

This would be a good solid roster and we would contend as long as everyone stays healthy which look like it would happen. Farmar is a rook, Granger is young, Mohhamed hasn't had any siginificant injuries. JO and Peja is up in the air but, should be healthy this coming season. If we got a good deal we should look to trade Tinsely, Jack for a good solid PG like Ben Gordon maybe (heard they are looking to deal him). My roster is is based on the utmost reality of what could actually happen. Pretty much sign Mohhamed and draft Farmar lol

skyfire
06-04-2006, 01:41 AM
Re-sign Peja, let Freddy walk

I'd do whatever I could to pry Delonte West away from Boston.
Even as far as taking LaFretz' contract.

Tins + Cro for West + LaFretz

I'd then try and work for a servicable big man, Nazr Mohammed or PJ Brown, etc. using some combination of Jax/AJ/Foster as trade bait.

Draft a combo guard with quickness and slashing ability

PG: West/Saras
SG: Granger/<1st rnd draft pick>
SF: Peja/<2nd rnd draft pick>
PF: JO/LaFretz
C: Mohammed or Brown/Harrison

Jermaniac
06-04-2006, 03:01 AM
Why does AJ get traded and not Scrubakavicus? What has he done deserve to stay on this team more then AJ?

AJ > Delonte West and Saras

skyfire
06-04-2006, 03:26 AM
AJ has minimal quickness or passing ability. Of all the top flight PGs, Kidd would be about the best matchup AJ could possibly have. He has maxed out his potential and has trade value.

Delonte West is better than AJ in just about every concievable way.

Jermaniac
06-04-2006, 03:33 AM
Not in a point guards way, Delonte West is a SG posing as a PG. When Delonte West starts at PG and his team makes the playoffs like AJ has done with the Pacers the last two year, give me a call.

Ohh AJ has minimal quickness or passing ability? What kind of quickness does Jasikavicus have? Molasis Quickness? Sarunas does have passing ability, but so much for that when he needs 15 of the 24 seconds in the shot clock to get the ball to the other teams 3 point line. AJ is 765 times the defender Sarunas is. He is cheaper. He is 2 times the scorer,shooter and ball handler. He also doesnt ***** at his teammates everytime he screws up. And dont act like Sarunas is some 22 year old PG the guy is 30 years old, he aint getting any better.

AJ >>> Sarunas

Damn I love me some me.

Lord Helmet
06-04-2006, 03:55 AM
I'd be pretty pissed if we traded AJ......

Kingsfanbmiller
06-04-2006, 06:40 AM
Here's what I would do:

Tinsley+Peja(S&T)+#17
for
Stro Swift+Alston+#8

Jackson for Trenton Hassel

I'd draft Rodney Carney with #8

I'd sign another big man in FA like Lorenzen Wright

After that stuff:

Alston/Johnson/Jasikevicious(he could probably be traded too)
Hassel/Carney
Granger/Carney
O'neal/Croshere/Swift
Foster/Harrison/Wright

I would sign and trade Peja because the Pacers have Granger at SF already. I'd like to see the Pacers get a perimeter defender to replace Ron, someone like Trenton Hassel. Getting another PG(you know, someone that actually plays more than half a season) would be nice too. Getting some younger guys to go around Granger for the future is also something I would do(which is why I'd get a pick like #8). More big men would be a good thing IMO.

skyfire
06-04-2006, 07:38 AM
Damn I love me

Ain't that the truth.

AJ isn't a pure PG either, doesn't mean that West isn't better than him in every way.

Saras might not the defender AJ is, but in no way has he reached his peak. He may be a 30yr old rookie, but he definately has more potential than AJ.

Right now AJ is a better player than Saras. That and his contract give him trade value, something we have sparingly little of on our roster.

Also if AJ gets traded then Rick wont be able to run pointless iso plays for him in the dying seconds of each 1/4 (that he always misses) and might need to come up with something more innovative.

At the end of the day this is all pointless speculation. How I would re-model the Pacers. So Jerm, why don't you carry on making the same pointless cookie cutter, JO lovin' and Rick hatin' posts that everyone ignores.

Jermaniac
06-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Dude that was not good, maybe next time though. If everyone ignores my **** why you replying to it? I win.

timid
06-04-2006, 01:49 PM
Not in a point guards way, Delonte West is a SG posing as a PG. When Delonte West starts at PG and his team makes the playoffs like AJ has done with the Pacers the last two year, give me a call.

Ohh AJ has minimal quickness or passing ability? What kind of quickness does Jasikavicus have? Molasis Quickness? Sarunas does have passing ability, but so much for that when he needs 15 of the 24 seconds in the shot clock to get the ball to the other teams 3 point line. AJ is 765 times the defender Sarunas is. He is cheaper. He is 2 times the scorer,shooter and ball handler. He also doesnt ***** at his teammates everytime he screws up. And dont act like Sarunas is some 22 year old PG the guy is 30 years old, he aint getting any better.

AJ >>> Sarunas

Damn I love me some me.
Damn, I actually agree with this. Sarunas is 30 years old. How much better is gonna get? And what, AJ is only 2 years older than him? (Correct me if I'm wrong). At this point, I'm definitely keeping AJ over Sarunas, especially since neither of them are the long term answer....

D-BONE
06-07-2006, 08:46 AM
Here's what I would do:

Tinsley+Peja(S&T)+#17
for
Stro Swift+Alston+#8

Jackson for Trenton Hassel

I'd draft Rodney Carney with #8

I'd sign another big man in FA like Lorenzen Wright

After that stuff:

Alston/Johnson/Jasikevicious(he could probably be traded too)
Hassel/Carney
Granger/Carney
O'neal/Croshere/Swift
Foster/Harrison/Wright

I would sign and trade Peja because the Pacers have Granger at SF already. I'd like to see the Pacers get a perimeter defender to replace Ron, someone like Trenton Hassel. Getting another PG(you know, someone that actually plays more than half a season) would be nice too. Getting some younger guys to go around Granger for the future is also something I would do(which is why I'd get a pick like #8). More big men would be a good thing IMO.

This idea isn't half bad. Could Nazr somehow be sought in this general scheme? Stro doesn't do much for me but the other guys I could live with. I suppose beggars can't be choosers if the objective is to unload Tins.

I've heard some pundits claim Carney is overvalued purely on athleticism. If we take him as the SG of the future, can he consistently shoot from deep? Hassell would help on D, something we sorely need, but little in the shooting area either.

Peja would address that issue, however I like this general approach b/c I honestly don't think we resign Peja if he insists on a longer-term, high priced deal. Granger is or will soon be the man at SF and Peja, despite his marksmanship, is essentially a one-dimensional player who fails to display any passion or killer instinct IMO.

Maybe throw in a new coach in this plan to boot.

Anthem
06-07-2006, 07:50 PM
As long as we're all posting improbables, here's mine:

On draft night, trade with Minnesota. Cro/AJ for Jaric/#6. USe the #6 to pick up Roy. Use the #17 to draft the best available player.

Re-sign Peja and Pollard at reasonable deals
S&T Fred to whoever, for whatever
Sign Jay Williams

Trade Steven Jackson and Jeff Foster for Mags/Mo
Trade Jamaal Tinsley for Stromile Swift

Our group would be:

Mags/Harrison
JO/Swift
Peja/Granger
Roy/Jaric
Saras/Jay/Mo

Jermaniac
06-07-2006, 09:14 PM
Mo Williams 3rd on the PG depth chart? Do you watch baskketball?

Mo >>>> Saras and Jay Williams together. SMFH At that scrub starting. This is one of those sit on your hands moments.

Ron who?
06-07-2006, 09:15 PM
Why does AJ get traded and not Scrubakavicus? What has he done deserve to stay on this team more then AJ?

AJ > Delonte West and Saras

the guy is worth more than he will ever be get rid of him now he will never play this well again in his life.... besides hes kinda cocky
he always says people underestimate him and he just keeps proving them wrong... just say you had a good game and walk away like the real pros do

Kingsfanbmiller
06-08-2006, 02:25 AM
I have a feeling Scot will re-sign with the Kings or retire.


Why would we want him back?