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Unclebuck
05-27-2006, 09:00 AM
There have been a number of thread over the past 5 weeks or so about whether the Pacers should re-sign Peja. I don't know if they should, one day I say yes the next day I say no.

However, as I was watching game two of the Mavs/Suns series, one thing I was thinking about was how much Dirk has changed his game in the past two seasons. Dirk used to play a lot like Peja does now. But Dirk has changed his game for the better.

From 2001 through 2004 Dirk averaged 360 three point attempts per season. The last two season he's averaged 250 per season. (in case you're wondering Dirk's minutes per season are amazingly consistant, so that doesn't explain the difference.

From 2001 through 2004 Dirk averages approximately 525 free throw attempts per season. About 6 per game. In the past two season he's averages 675 FT attempts per season. About 8 per game.


OK, so my question is why can't Peja change his game. Why can't he take fewer threes and more free throws. Peja is 6'10" he seems to be able to score inside when he tries to. Of course Dirk's change has coincided with Avery forcing him to change, running more plays for him in the midpost, and encouraging him to drive more. Dirk did not take one shot outside of 16 feet last night, his three point attempts in these playoffs are way down, and his free throw attempts are way up.

I think Peja needs to study Dirk's game and how it's changed and try to immulate Dirk. The Pacers coaching staff also needs to study the types of plays the Mavs run for Dirk and run some of the same plays for Peja. If the player and the coach commit to doing that, then I want Peja re-signed.

Remember a few seasons ago when Bird was talking about Peja (I tried to find the quotes, but couldn't) and he said Peja should rebound more and post up more, well I agree and if that is what the Pacers want him to do, then we need to ask:

Is Peja is willing to change his game at this point in his career. Can he change his game, or is he just a spot up shooter

Unclebuck
05-27-2006, 09:03 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/cgi-bin/bi/gold_print.cgi


Dirk does it all - again
Avery's adjustments help, but key to victory rests with Nowitzki



01:26 AM CDT on Saturday, May 27, 2006


Any change Avery Johnson wants to make in this series is fine.

Start Keith Van Horn at center? Go for it.

Sacrifice the Mavericks' dominance on the boards to get back in transition defense? It makes perfect sense.

No matter how many adjustments Johnson makes, one thing won't change: getting the ball into Dirk Nowitzki's hands.

That is why the Mavericks won Friday night's game. Not because Johnson played musical centers. Not because the team did a better job of keeping Phoenix out of the paint and limiting the Suns' searing fast break.

Sure, Josh Howard gave the Mavericks an emotional and athletic lift. But the primary reason the Mavericks go to the desert tied in the Western Conference finals is because Nowitzki led the team in scoring with 30 points. He led the team in rebounding with 14. He led them in assists with six.

In other words, he led them.

Nowitzki has been the one constant for the Mavericks in the first two games of this series. Twelve of his points came in another tense fourth quarter. Six of his points came in the final 1:36. He was the one player who kept his head in the final minutes, when Jason Terry and Jerry Stackhouse were losing theirs.

"Dirk made some tremendous plays in the fourth quarter," Johnson said.

It's not just that Nowitzki scored. It's where he scored.

The forward didn't take a shot all evening beyond 16 feet. He faked the jumper to draw the Suns defense – such as it is – outside then put the ball on the floor and took it right at them.

Remember how Suns forward Shawn Marion frustrated Nowitzki early in their playoff series last season? It's not happening this time around. Nowitzki has averaged 27.5 points, 16.5 rebounds and four assists in the first two games. He's shot 51.2 percent from the field.

"I just wanted to make some stuff happen," Nowitzki said. "Go to the basket some and not settle for jumpers.

"Shawn Marion is a great defender on the perimeter. He's long. He's athletic, and he's really contesting my shots, so I was just trying to attack the rim. They don't really have a lot of shot blockers out there. Maybe I can get to the line some.

"I was pretty decent."

He was more than that.

The Suns don't have a defensive answer for Nowitzki. The Suns don't have an interior defense, either. Nowitzki will attack Phoenix the rest of the series the way he did Friday.

This is where Nowitzki has evolved most as a player. He took 16 shots from 3-point range against the Suns in the playoffs last season. He hasn't tried one yet in this series.

"I think I've learned a lot over the year how to be efficient down there," Nowitzki said. "You learn angles, learn how to attack better."

Nowitzki scored 30 or more points only once during last year's playoffs.

Friday marked the sixth time he's done it this time around. This sort of performance has become so commonplace that Johnson actually gave props to four of his players for what they did in Game 2 before getting around to Nowitzki.

"Obviously, Dirk is playing on an MVP-type of level," Johnson said.

Obviously.

It's interesting that Nowitzki used the same word Thursday when asked if Game 2 was a must win for the Mavericks. He then came out and did something about it.

"Typical," Suns guard Steve Nash said of his good friend's performance. "I think he's going to play similar in most of the games in this series."

E-mail dmoore@dallasnews.com


THEN AND NOW
A look at Dirk Nowitzki's numbers in this series compared to what he did against Phoenix in last year's playoffs:


Season Games Points Rebounds Assists FG pct.
2006 2 27.5 16.5 4 51.2
2005 6 26.5 11.5 3.3 45.3

SoupIsGood
05-27-2006, 09:10 AM
He does not work on his game like Dirk does.

Does not have the passion for the game that Dirk has.

No, he can't.

circlecitysportsfan
05-27-2006, 09:34 AM
He does not work on his game like Dirk does.

Does not have the passion for the game that Dirk has.

No, he can't.



Agreed. :buddies:

Kegboy
05-27-2006, 10:10 AM
You answered your own question, Buck. The coach has a lot to do with how the player plays. We already saw a more complete game from Peja than he showed in Sac. Given a full training camp and a modified playbook, I see no reason why Peja can't play a more all-around game next year.

Or, to be more blunt, he damn well better, considering how much money we'll end up playing him.

Anthem
05-27-2006, 10:13 AM
Because it would require him working in the offseason.

Hicks
05-27-2006, 10:29 AM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:

Kegboy
05-27-2006, 10:38 AM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:

"Kick the Peja"
"Don't Kick the Peja"
"Kick the Peja" :kickcan:

/KyleAndIke

Anthem
05-27-2006, 10:48 AM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:
He's made public comments that vacation is vacation. This pre-dates his time with the Pacers. Hold on, I'll google.

EDIT: All I found off the top of my head was this. A few gems:
http://arrangingmatches.typepad.com/am/2005/11/kreidler_on_pej.html

I think Peja's problem is a combination of being a huge sissy, no work in the offseason and a basic indifference to winning.
http://arrangingmatches.typepad.com/am/2005/11/dr_obvious_sez_.html

Any Kings fans want to throw in on this?

Bball
05-27-2006, 10:50 AM
How would this 'new and improved' Peja fit in with the current model JO? IMHO, if anyone's game needs to change it is JO (and Rick Carlisle's for that matter).

-Bball

Jermaniac
05-27-2006, 11:29 AM
There have been a number of thread over the past 5 weeks or so about whether the Pacers should re-sign Peja. I don't know if they should, one day I say yes the next day I say no.

However, as I was watching game two of the Mavs/Suns series, one thing I was thinking about was how much Dirk has changed his game in the past two seasons. Dirk used to play a lot like Peja does now. But Dirk has changed his game for the better.

From 2001 through 2004 Dirk averaged 360 three point attempts per season. The last two season he's averaged 250 per season. (in case you're wondering Dirk's minutes per season are amazingly consistant, so that doesn't explain the difference.

From 2001 through 2004 Dirk averages approximately 525 free throw attempts per season. About 6 per game. In the past two season he's averages 675 FT attempts per season. About 8 per game.


OK, so my question is why can't Peja change his game. Why can't he take fewer threes and more free throws. Peja is 6'10" he seems to be able to score inside when he tries to. Of course Dirk's change has coincided with Avery forcing him to change, running more plays for him in the midpost, and encouraging him to drive more. Dirk did not take one shot outside of 16 feet last night, his three point attempts in these playoffs are way down, and his free throw attempts are way up.

I think Peja needs to study Dirk's game and how it's changed and try to immulate Dirk. The Pacers coaching staff also needs to study the types of plays the Mavs run for Dirk and run some of the same plays for Peja. If the player and the coach commit to doing that, then I want Peja re-signed.

Remember a few seasons ago when Bird was talking about Peja (I tried to find the quotes, but couldn't) and he said Peja should rebound more and post up more, well I agree and if that is what the Pacers want him to do, then we need to ask:

Is Peja is willing to change his game at this point in his career. Can he change his game, or is he just a spot up shooter


Why cant Peja shoot more FT's and less 3's? Because he is soft and getting to the FT line you have to get hit.

Jermaniac
05-27-2006, 11:31 AM
How would this 'new and improved' Peja fit in with the current model JO? IMHO, if anyone's game needs to change it is JO (and Rick Carlisle's for that matter).

-BballYou are ****ing pathetic seriously. Do you ever make a post not bashing Jermaine O'Neal. What does this thread have to do with Jermaine O'Neal?

#31
05-27-2006, 11:40 AM
Agree with you Unclebuck, i was thinking that to long time ago, i just hope Carlisle & Co. can see what we see to and experiment a little.


PS: wow so many Peja haters, no passion like Dirk has!? does not work like Dirk!? Are u serious? What BS!... You know, its just much easier to type "IM A PEJA HATER", because thats clearly what you seem like when saying stupid stuff like that and besides it will make you an Honest man.

Mourning
05-27-2006, 11:44 AM
You are ****ing pathetic seriously. Do you ever make a post not bashing Jermaine O'Neal. What does this thread have to do with Jermaine O'Neal?

Sorry, Jermaniac, but you seem to be falling to the same flaw with regards to Peja as what you are accusing Bball of doing with regards to JO.

Peja does go inside and he does drive and he's pretty good at it, but so far in his career he seems to have been utilized the way we have seen him play from outside mainly in other words.

It's difficult to change all of that if its all so natural to the way you play your game. Yet if you compare the way he played for us with the way he played in SacTown you allready see a big difference.

I'm with Kegboy on this one. Coaching ... that's what could change his game and that is what makes clear what he will do the most.

Sure, there are limits to what he can do and is able to do, but I want to give him an honest chance.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

#31
05-27-2006, 11:48 AM
How would this 'new and improved' Peja fit in with the current model JO? IMHO, if anyone's game needs to change it is JO (and Rick Carlisle's for that matter).

-Bball

Words of wisdom

Anthem
05-27-2006, 12:12 PM
PS: wow so many Peja haters, no passion like Dirk has!? does not work like Dirk!? Are u serious? What BS!... You know, its just much easier to type "IM A PEJA HATER", because thats clearly what you seem like when saying stupid stuff like that and besides it will make you an Honest man.
Just so we're clear, are you saying that Peja works as hard on improving his game as Dirk does on his?

Lay it on the line for us.

Ron who?
05-27-2006, 12:31 PM
im gonna say it flat out.. plain and simple... we should trade Peja along with Stephen Jackson for somebody better... i think we should have just traded for the injured corey magette.... all Peja is capable of doing standing and shooting... i was well aware of this when the trade went through and i was pissed when that happened... he cant create his own shots... he never has a mismatch because just standing there infront of him is D enough... hes garbage trade him now.....

PLAIN AND SIMPLE PEJA IS A WIMP

....but the guy does have a hot wife she gets atleast :5stars: :)

Mourning
05-27-2006, 12:46 PM
im gonna say it flat out.. plain and simple... we should trade Peja along with Stephen Jackson for somebody better... i think we should have just traded for the injured corey magette.... all Peja is capable of doing standing and shooting... i was well aware of this when the trade went through and i was pissed when that happened... he cant create his own shots... he never has a mismatch because just standing there infront of him is D enough... hes garbage trade him now.....

PLAIN AND SIMPLE PEJA IS A WIMP

....but the guy does have a hot wife she gets atleast :5stars: :)

Only capeable of standing and shooting? Did you even watch a game after the Pacers traded for him?

And who exactly would you trade him for? Everyone talking about Magette should take not that the guy has a lot of injuries and though he does get his points and free throws I don't like the way he acted when he had to come back from that injury. If he was on our team with the people we have we might have had an even worse chemistry problem brewing.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

rexnom
05-27-2006, 12:57 PM
What do you guys have against signing Peja? Even if it means overpaying, we have to keep that kind of talent. We're not going to be under the cap any time soon so a few million extra each year is not going to affect us as free agency players. And do you really think anything can keep Danny off the court at the rate he is developing?

Bball
05-27-2006, 01:00 PM
You are ****ing pathetic seriously. Do you ever make a post not bashing Jermaine O'Neal. What does this thread have to do with Jermaine O'Neal?

I wasn't bashing Jermaine O Neal... I'm stating facts (as defined by me, of course :tongue: ).

I brought up JO because what UB stated wouldn't happen in a vacuum and unless he's traded or retires soon, JO is our $120,000,000.00 mista..err main guy. If Peja was to become more 'Dirk like' how would that fit with JO as we use him right now?

-Bball

Slick Pinkham
05-27-2006, 02:03 PM
all Peja is capable of doing standing and shooting... i was well aware of this when the trade went through and i was pissed when that happened... he cant create his own shots... he never has a mismatch because just standing there infront of him is D enough...

That's what a LOT of us thought BEFORE the trade and we were shown to be dead wrong by watching him play here. You apparently didn't watch at all. He moves off the ball, cuts to the basket, creates shots off the dribble, has other offensive moves besides the catch-and-shoot, like his step-back fadeaway that is accurate and with his high and quick release is not easily stopped. He boards and passes way better than we thought based upon his play in Sacto.

He may not be worth what he is looking for in a new contract, and I am disappointed with his inability or unwillingness to play hurt in the playoffs, but you are dead wrng when you pidgenhole the guy as a one-skill player.

#31
05-27-2006, 02:04 PM
Just so we're clear, are you saying that Peja works as hard on improving his game as Dirk does on his?

Lay it on the line for us.

Im just saying, if Peja had a coach like Dirk, if Peja was on a team like that, i dont "think" but i KNOW he would "improve" his game to... heck, even Sarunas would improve with Avery. Dirk "improved" because he changed his game, NBA veterans cant "work hard to improve their game" no more, but they can "work hard on changing their game" or as you say it "Melt in" with the different tactics/plays/systems you gona use. Its very easy to change your game, you just have to know what you are doing and realise the consequences and trust your Coach/Teammates.

Second of all, why i said "if peja was on a team like that", because if Peja would play like Dirk for the Pacers it would change everybodys games/roles and change your teams tactics/system... sure it would be great for Pejas PPG stats, but how will that affect JO? S-Jax? Tinsley? Granger? AJ? etc. ? Will that change his teammates to? Will they "improve" because Peja "improved"? Who will be the ultimate perimeter shooter THEN? Will they win more games like this? Is Carlisle really a coach like Avery? Very difficult...

SoupIsGood
05-27-2006, 02:18 PM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:

He has admitted it himself.

Redneck #007
05-27-2006, 02:33 PM
Peja has gotten alot better at moving without the ball since coming to Indy. In Sactown he was a spot up shooter who hardly ever moved inside the 3pt line. I think we need to keep him in Indy. If we can ever land a true center and if JO decides to step up his game we'll need a guy like Peja for JO and them to kick out too for a open three.

VF21
05-27-2006, 02:40 PM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:

He is on record as saying, "I don't do basketball at home."

He's also said that he doesn't work to change his game, because that's not who he is.

I'm not bashing him with this, but having watched him all these years and listened to his comments, both during the year and at his charity basketball events in the summer, it's pretty clear. Peja does not LIVE for the game of basketball. Basketball provides him with a good living. Basic conceptual difference.

Now, on the other hand? Peja was one of the few people on our team capable of consistently frustrating Dirk Nowitzki. In the Western Conference, that was pretty impressive all by itself.

VF21
05-27-2006, 02:42 PM
Peja has gotten alot better at moving without the ball since coming to Indy. In Sactown he was a spot up shooter who hardly ever moved inside the 3pt line. I think we need to keep him in Indy. If we can ever land a true center and if JO decides to step up his game we'll need a guy like Peja for JO and them to kick out too for a open three.

That's not exactly true, either. When we had Vlade at the high post, looking for Peja, they were an awesome combination. Peja has ALWAYS been good at moving without the ball. The problem came once Vlade and Webber and Doug were gone. Those were the three guys who seemed to look for Peja the most. Peja is very good at back door cuts; but it doesn't do much good if no one is going to get him the ball.

Lord Helmet
05-27-2006, 03:05 PM
Where is it written in stone he doesn't work during the offseason? First this place has taken the "he's soft" crap and driven it into the ground, now the latest round of "Kick the Peja" involves him not working hard during the summer?

:rolleyes:
Don't you just love it?

:shakehead

SoupIsGood
05-27-2006, 03:11 PM
Don't you just love it?

:shakehead

Um, it was just explained to be true, and in fact not 'hate' or whatever.

Like VF said, Peja isn't all about basketball, it's just something he does. He's just got different priorities, and doesn't work on the other stuff a whole lot.

Lord Helmet
05-27-2006, 03:22 PM
Um, it was just explained to be true, and in fact not 'hate' or whatever.

Like VF said, Peja isn't all about basketball, it's just something he does. He's just got different priorities, and doesn't work on the other stuff a whole lot.
Great.

Arcadian
05-27-2006, 03:37 PM
A coach may use Peja differently and Peja may be capable. However going by what Peja says about himself I don't believe he is going to dedicate himself to changing his game. My opinion is that he is satisfied with were he is at. He doesn't strike me as a hungry player. No eye of the tiger in Peja.

Robertmto
05-27-2006, 03:39 PM
The simple answer is no he can't. Dirk has that passion to win, to be better, and to get a ring. It seems to me that Peja is content where he's at. Just look at his "injuries" in the playoffs, if he was committed like Dirk is he would have played thru the knee problems. Just like Shaq last year with his thigh bruise that was flooded with liquid. Peja should be shipped out a.s.a.p.

Young
05-27-2006, 03:52 PM
Yes Peja can change his game even if he isn't the great David Harrison or Ron Artest.

Although he has to have the right coach. Dirk didn't start changing the way he played until Avery Johnson took over as coach.

He has to work hard enough and he has to have the right coaching. I'm not around Peja during the summers so I don't know how he spends them and I haven't heard much about his work ethic or lack of one other than on here so i'm not saying he works hard and i'm not saying he doesn't, but I am saying that for him to change his game he has to work hard.

The other aspect is coaching. I don't know what Rick instructs Peja to do. Stand around the 3 point line, take inside, I don't know really but no matter who the coach is he has to give Peja the right role.

SjA3837
05-27-2006, 04:51 PM
The simple answer is no he can't. Dirk has that passion to win, to be better, and to get a ring. It seems to me that Peja is content where he's at. Just look at his "injuries" in the playoffs, if he was committed like Dirk is he would have played thru the knee problems. Just like Shaq last year with his thigh bruise that was flooded with liquid. Peja should be shipped out a.s.a.p.

None of you have any clue what Peja was going through with his knee. It's pretty ridiculous comparing a swollen knee... to a bruised thigh. Also, Peja is a perimeter player, it's hard enough to run on a swollen knee, let alone make cuts to the basket and jump off of it.

bozzwell
05-27-2006, 04:54 PM
The main difference between Dirk's change and what would take Pedja to change is that Dirk could lay up the ball in traffic or make little turnaround jumper (or just shoot over his defender in the mid-post) even before he emphasised that aspect of his game. Dirk just changed his focus. Pedja would need to almost reinvent his game. I am talking about this "current" Pedja, not the guy from 2+ years ago.

The Old Pedja had Vlade, Chris and Doug and he was a finisher (be that off of the screen or by cutting to the basket). The new Pedja "does not do basketball at home" (he did before, he played every off-season in Europe if nothing else, and you don't get to shoot so well without practice as he did then). Now contrast that statement with his old interviews (in Serbian press) and it was all about bringing NBA championship to Belgrade for a parade with Vlade and Chris or about him not knowing what's he gonna do after basketball because he is all about basketball 24/7 (note: I lifted those quotes from list of Pedja quotes in Serbian, don't have English source).

Now, maybe, just maybe Bird can reinvigorate Pedja's desire to play basketball at the All Star level and to "get it done". Bird is someone that Pedja would look up to like he did to Vlade. He doesn't seem to be a self-starter and had to be proded all the way throughout his career by a series of strong characters/leaders: Scott Skiles in Greece, Vlade and Chris in Sacto.

But he will never be like Dirk. Dirk is MVP caliber player now and probably for at least few more years. Pedja, at his peak was one of the best second bananas and the best shooter in the league.

Jermaniac
05-27-2006, 05:02 PM
He is on record as saying, "I don't do basketball at home."

He's also said that he doesn't work to change his game, because that's not who he is.

I'm not bashing him with this, but having watched him all these years and listened to his comments, both during the year and at his charity basketball events in the summer, it's pretty clear. Peja does not LIVE for the game of basketball. Basketball provides him with a good living. Basic conceptual difference.




WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS

rexnom
05-27-2006, 05:10 PM
I will go on record as saying that if we do resign Peja, he will play very well next year. The man is a good player. He is the second-best player on this team. There is no way around it. Also, if he would have played in the NJ series and injured his knee so badly that he never could play at a high level again, would that be better? I just am shocked that people hate this guy. He brings so many things to the table that we don't have in any other player and he isn't soft, he gets to the line, he hits his damn FTs, he is a consistent shooter and scorer, and an excellent team player. He is not Dirk Nowitzki and never will be. Apples and oranges.

VF21
05-27-2006, 05:19 PM
WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS

???

I'm not trying to bash Peja, although I was pretty honest about being frustrated with him right before the trade.

Peja Stojakovic is a fantastic shooter. His fadeaway takes your breath away. His pull-up from about three feet beyond the arc is unbelieveable.

I don't know why, but people always seem to be polarized about Peja. Some of his Serbian countrymen get extremely upset if he's ever criticized, to the extent where it's almost unbelieveable. Other people are SO critical that nothing he does is right.

Peja is an enigma. If he had the inner drive that some others have in this league, he could be one of the very, very best. He just doesn't seem to have it on his own. As bozzwell has said, he needs to be pushed. Vlade and Chris did it in Sacramento. If you can find someone to do it for him in Indiana, you might see a return to the Peja of old.

Keep in mind, however, that he has played basketball at a professional level since he was 15. He is getting old, in terms of years played. He is starting to break down. His plantar fasciitis gave him fits. His back is problematic. Now his knee? Peja isn't getting younger. He now has a family and two young children and wants to spend more time with them.

rexnom - It's not about hating him just because people point out his weaknesses. It's about being realistic. He's not perfect. Of course, neither is anyone else. With Peja, unfortunately, it just often seems like people expect him to be.

circlecitysportsfan
05-27-2006, 05:19 PM
I will go on record as saying that if we do resign Peja, he will play very well next year. The man is a good player. He is the second-best player on this team. There is no way around it. Also, if he would have played in the NJ series and injured his knee so badly that he never could play at a high level again, would that be better? I just am shocked that people hate this guy. He brings so many things to the table that we don't have in any other player and he isn't soft, he gets to the line, he hits his damn FTs, he is a consistent shooter and scorer, and an excellent team player. He is not Dirk Nowitzki and never will be. Apples and oranges.


I said this in the other Peja tread and i'll say it here. Reggie broke a bone under his eye a week or two before the playoffs in 96. He had surgery and played in Game 5 scored 30 points. Reggie's injury was more serious than Peja's knee, and he was a free agent to be also. I don't see much difference other than one guy has guts and one guy does not.





Keep in mind, however, that he has played basketball at a professional level since he was 15. He is getting old, in terms of years played. He is starting to break down. His plantar fasciitis gave him fits. His back is problematic. Now his knee? Peja isn't getting younger.

Well that's all the reason i need NOT to resign him, can you email that to Larry and DW ASAP?

rexnom
05-27-2006, 05:27 PM
I said this in the other Peja tread and i'll say it here. Reggie broke a bone under his eye a week or two before the playoffs in 96. He had surgery and played in Game 5 scored 30 points. Reggie's injury was more serious than Peja's knee, and he was a free agent to be also. I don't see much difference other than one guy has guts and one guy does not.
Well that's all the reason i need NOT to resign him, can you email that to Larry and DW ASAP?
I'm fairly sure if Peja could do that and still play effectively (which he obviously couldn't, as evidenced by the two games he did play), he would have.

VF21-Now, I agree with you're saying. I'm not a Serbian fan or anything like that, I just want the best for the Pacers, like any other Joe and I just think that letting Peja go would be a serious mistake that would only cause the Pacers to take an unnecessary, giant step backwards.

SjA3837
05-27-2006, 05:29 PM
I said this in the other Peja tread and i'll say it here. Reggie broke a bone under his eye a week or two before the playoffs in 96. He had surgery and played in Game 5 scored 30 points. Reggie's injury was more serious than Peja's knee, and he was a free agent to be also. I don't see much difference other than one guy has guts and one guy does not.




Well that's all the reason i need NOT to resign him, can you email that to Larry and DW ASAP?

That's bull, again.. there is a HUGE difference between the two. An knee injury is much worse to play on than a broken bone under an eye...

Kstat
05-27-2006, 05:35 PM
Dirk didn't really change his game per se, he just got a lot tougher.

Bball
05-27-2006, 06:47 PM
I said this in the other Peja tread and i'll say it here. Reggie broke a bone under his eye a week or two before the playoffs in 96. He had surgery and played in Game 5 scored 30 points. Reggie's injury was more serious than Peja's knee, and he was a free agent to be also. I don't see much difference other than one guy has guts and one guy does not.



You've obviously not had a serious knee injury...

If you want to speculate that the knee wasn't injured (or barely so), fine... but to say a broken bone under the eye is more debilitating than a knee injury, and that if one person could play with that then another could play with a knee injury would be misguided.

-Bball

Young
05-27-2006, 07:05 PM
Even if Peja would have played on with a bad knee in the Nets series it would have put more pressure on his other one and there is a good chance that he would have injured that knee. This happened with Amare this year, he came back to early and had to put more pressure on his "good" leg and that caused him to have the same injury to the other leg. I know Amare's injury was much more serious but I still think that if Peja would have tried and played, he would have had to put a lot more pressure on his other knee and he could have another injury right now.

Anthem
05-27-2006, 07:51 PM
I'm not questioning Peja's knee.

I'm questioning his heart.

Young
05-27-2006, 08:03 PM
I'm not questioning Peja's knee.

I'm questioning his heart.

So i'm guessing you wanted him to play against the Nets then.

Well lets say that he played, and injured his other knee, what would you do then?

I'd rather have Peja sit out those games like he did then play and injure his knee worse.

circlecitysportsfan
05-27-2006, 08:12 PM
You've obviously not had a serious knee injury...

If you want to speculate that the knee wasn't injured (or barely so), fine... but to say a broken bone under the eye is more debilitating than a knee injury, and that if one person could play with that then another could play with a knee injury would be misguided.

-Bball

It's not about the knee injury, it's about playing. IMO, yes he could of got hurt, but i know other guys that would of atleast given it a go. Peja is a wuss, we are not winning jack with him here. You can sig that.

Jermaniac
05-27-2006, 08:23 PM
You've obviously not had a serious knee injury...

If you want to speculate that the knee wasn't injured (or barely so), fine... but to say a broken bone under the eye is more debilitating than a knee injury, and that if one person could play with that then another could play with a knee injury would be misguided.

-Bball

Jermaine O'Neal = Hyperextended Knee in the ECF, comes back during the same game, because he knows what the hell he is playing for and because he wants to win.

Peja = Knee bruise, I dont want to play I got a owwwwwwie.

circlecitysportsfan
05-27-2006, 08:34 PM
Jermaine O'Neal = Hyperextended Knee in the ECF, comes back during the same game, because he knows what the hell he is playing for and because he wants to win.

Peja = Knee bruise, I dont want to play I got a owwwwwwie.

No that was different....lol

SoupIsGood
05-27-2006, 08:56 PM
Great.
:thumbsup:

Unclebuck
05-27-2006, 09:06 PM
=VF21Keep in mind, however, that he has played basketball at a professional level since he was 15. He is getting old, in terms of years played. He is starting to break down. His plantar fasciitis gave him fits. His back is problematic. Now his knee? Peja isn't getting younger. He now has a family and two young children and wants to spend more time with them.






That is a real concern of mine

Robertmto
05-27-2006, 10:45 PM
That's bull, again.. there is a HUGE difference between the two. An knee injury is much worse to play on than a broken bone under an eye...

Are you serious? Reggie could barely see and he played. Peja would have been slower and less agile. What would be much worse???

vapacersfan
05-27-2006, 10:53 PM
Are you serious? Reggie could barely see and he played. Peja would have been slower and less agile. What would be much worse???

ARE you serious?

Reggie had a injury, and it was pretty bad.

But the people here trying to discredit Peja's injury are incredible.

If he were to injure his other knee/anke (I have done it twice personally) from overcompensating, people would be *****ing, and if he doesnt play people call him soft.

It is just plain absurd to compare the two injuries.

SoupIsGood
05-27-2006, 11:00 PM
That is a real concern of mine

Just another reason to not keep him on the team.

Robertmto
05-27-2006, 11:00 PM
ARE you serious?

Reggie had a injury, and it was pretty bad.

But the people here trying to discredit Peja's injury are incredible.

If he were to injure his other knee/anke (I have done it twice personally) from overcompensating, people would be *****ing, and if he doesnt play people call him soft.

It is just plain absurd to compare the two injuries.

I didn't make the comparioson, i corrected it. You have to ask SjA why he thinks the two are conceivably the same.

vapacersfan
05-27-2006, 11:07 PM
I guess my point was missed.

SjA3837 was correct, a knee injury is a very serious thing, and it is crazy to compare it to Reggie's injury.

I dont like comparing injuries period. I have had over 17 "diagnosed" injuries just from track, and I bet you even if you find a doctor or a person who has claimed to have seen that/had that, every injury is different. Not to mention every person handles injuries differently.

Like I said, I was able to recover very quickly from my stress fracture in my leg (after some 9-10 weeks, the doctors said I should be off of it for 16-20 to be safe) but I came back and messed up my other knee by over-compensating.

I guess Peja is just the new whipping boy since ron is gone.

Anthem
05-27-2006, 11:14 PM
So i'm guessing you wanted him to play against the Nets then.

Well lets say that he played, and injured his other knee, what would you do then?

I'd rather have Peja sit out those games like he did then play and injure his knee worse.
Get over the knee already! It's not about the knee!

My opinion of Peja wasn't changed by the fact that he didn't play in our four losses.

SjA3837
05-27-2006, 11:56 PM
I didn't make the comparioson, i corrected it. You have to ask SjA why he thinks the two are conceivably the same.

Hmmm

Are you serious? Reggie could barely see and he played. Peja would have been slower and less agile. What would be much worse???

You're asking me what injury would be worse... that would require comparing the two, right ?

I think so.


Anyways, you have no clue what was wrong with his knee. If it was infact swollen, I see no reason for him to play on it, unless he wants to sit out the rest of next year with more problems. I've had my share of knee problems, and have had surgery on them both. Knee injuries suck, only time, rest, and ice heal it.

If I was playing in the NBA, I know I'd rather have ONE messed up eye.. than a knee injury that keeps me from moving up and down the court.

Robertmto
05-28-2006, 12:02 AM
That's bull, again.. there is a HUGE difference between the two. An knee injury is much worse to play on than a broken bone under an eye...

Looks like you compared the two before me...

rexnom
05-28-2006, 12:41 AM
That is a real concern of mine
As concerned as you are, can you honestly tell me that it would be better for this team to let someone of Peja's caliber go? You know we aren't going to get good value with a sign-and-trade. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Peja. Sure, we might overpay him but is that SO awful? If it means getting back to having good team chemistry with guys willing to pass and playing team basketball, isn't this ok?

Arcadian
05-28-2006, 03:19 AM
Peja is a nice player.

I don't want to commit big money long term to a player who isn't commited to the game.

Bball
05-28-2006, 03:28 AM
Jermaine O'Neal = Hyperextended Knee in the ECF, comes back during the same game, because he knows what the hell he is playing for and because he wants to win.

Peja = Knee bruise, I dont want to play I got a owwwwwwie.


I imagine, according to you, Jermaine also brought sight to a blind man after the game and walked on water at some point as well.

But for a minute, let's assume the injuries and symptoms were absolutely identical... The Pacers and JO were playing for a chance to go to the NBA finals. The Pacers and Peja were playing to decide how many games it took NJ before they finished us off and moved on.

It's not like Peja has been Jonathon Bender, so I can give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the condition of his knee and the fact he would be STUPID to risk further injury, in a contract year, to help the Pacers hang around an extra game in the playoffs. It's not like we were going anywhere anyway.

IF someone wants to argue (or speculate) there was nothing wrong with his knee or it was EXTREMELY minor, no risk of further injury, etc then that is different. I'm all ears to that. But if there was pain and swelling, I can't blame him for not pushing things. He had more to lose than he or the team had to gain.

-Bball

Downtown Threat
05-28-2006, 07:16 AM
Peja has gotten alot better at moving without the ball since coming to Indy. In Sactown he was a spot up shooter who hardly ever moved inside the 3pt line. I think we need to keep him in Indy. If we can ever land a true center and if JO decides to step up his game we'll need a guy like Peja for JO and them to kick out too for a open three.
Thats not true.

Pedja was always one of the better kings at moving without the ball. He wasn't a "stand in the corner" type of player with us. He moves without the ball very well and he would get his fair share of lay ups because he did a lot of cutting and Vlade and Webber would look for him from the high post. Christie always used to look for him as well with those laser like passes. Pedja got a lot of cheap buckets because of his off the ball movement.