PDA

View Full Version : What do you believe about the honesty of NBA officiating?



Slick Pinkham
05-25-2006, 01:38 PM
We've had discussions over the years about hated small market teams, hated owners, franchises the league dislikes.

I don't know that we have ever polled people to find out how widespread these views are.

Simply,

What do you believe about NBA officiating? Here are the choices, abbreviated in the poll since there is a 100 character limit:

1. NBA refs make mistakes, but almost none of them care about who wins or loses. They do not bias outcomes to suit Stern et. al. but rather call the game as best they can.

2. NBA refs act upon direct instructions from Stern et. al. to ensure that late rounds of the playoffs feature the most marketable teams. They are told who should win and to officiate accordingly by any means necessary.

3. NBA refs receive specific suggestions from Stern et.al. about what rule or rules need to be specially enforced in a particular game or series, in order to slightly favor a desired outcome, and the refs are financially rewarded if successful.

4. A large number (>25%) of NBA refs carry personal grudges against players, coaches, and franchises and let these biases control their judgement without input from league higher powers. There are just lots of rogue bad refs.

5. Other (please specify)

RWB
05-25-2006, 02:15 PM
I'm not ready to look for the single bullet theory, however the 4 point play, and the way HArrison was called this year does in fact give me enough pause to question their integrity.

Putnam
05-25-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm not sure if Stern and the refs are in the business of picking every winner, every series, every year. But I do think the NBA is managed.

My strongest argument is the case of Michael Jordan and the number of steps allowed going in for a dunk. Before Jordan, it was one step. Now it is about four. I believe that, in order to make Jordan more marketable, referees laid off the travel calls. With one step, a Michael finish was no different than a Vern Fleming finish. But with 3-4 steps, Michael could do wonders, transform the game and captivate the whole world. I believe Stern gave the word to give Michael the extra steps. Other players have benefited from the policy since then, but it was done for the benefit of Jordan and the Bulls.

Will Galen
05-25-2006, 03:50 PM
I believe NBA refs make mistakes. They don't bias outcomes but call the game fairly for the most part. Being human I think some do hold grudges, I also think some can be influenced, be it good or bad toward certain teams and players.

SoupIsGood
05-25-2006, 03:52 PM
They are all David Harrison haters.

:haterade:

Fool
05-25-2006, 03:55 PM
I believe fans have too much time on their hands in the off-season.

bulldog
05-25-2006, 04:42 PM
Other...refs make mistakes, but the pattern of mistakes they make certainly does bias the outcome. They're people, and they get affected by hype and pressure just as much as anyone. Giving the home court team an advantage, favoring certain players, holding grudges and putting players on a short leash: these are mistakes, but they certainly influence the outcome of the game with a bias towards a certain team.

To use an oft-mentioned example...LeBron couldn't have walked. He's Lebron James...I'm just a witness!!!

VF21
05-26-2006, 01:00 AM
I went with the first one.

The officials have a very difficult job. Some of them are better at it than others. They have to try and balance enforcing the rules with allowing the game to flow. There are some fouls that could be called at least 40-50 times a game.

I agree that some officials have grudges against certain players (Violet Palmer, for example, absolutely HATED Chris Webber) but I think they still - for the most part - manage to put those aside and do their jobs to the best of their ability.

grace
05-26-2006, 01:32 AM
I believe fans have too much time on their hands in the off-season.

Well of course those of us whose teams are no longer in the playoffs tend to have more time on our hands.

As for my answer to the question refs make mistakes and there are a few, probably more like 10%, who have a burr up their butts when it comes to certain players and coaches.

Slick Pinkham
05-26-2006, 09:07 AM
I'm mystified by all other the "other" votes.

the choices were, basically, do the refs:

-do the best they can (honest)

-fix games (totally dishonest & on the take)

-slightly bias their calls because the NBA wants them to (somewhat dishonest)

-hold personal grudges and officiate accordingly (dishonest but not on behalf of the league).

How many "other" positions are there? I suppose there is a "mostly honest" position.

:confused:




I'm also mystified why anyone who follow the sport if they thought officiating was dishonest. It would be like following professional wrestling, I guess, purely for a laugh and some scripted entertainment.

bulletproof
05-26-2006, 09:32 AM
I'm mystified by all other the "other" votes.

the choices were, basically, do the refs:

-do the best they can (honest)

-fix games (totally dishonest & on the take)

-slightly bias their calls because the NBA wants them to (somewhat dishonest)

-hold personal grudges and officiate accordingly (dishonest but not on behalf of the league).

How many "other" positions are there? I suppose there is a "mostly honest" position.

:confused:

I'm also mystified why anyone who follow the sport if they thought officiating was dishonest. It would be like following professional wrestling, I guess, purely for a laugh and some scripted entertainment.

Your third choice in the poll and what you stated above are not the same thing:

- NBA refs receive specific rule suggestions from Stern et.al., bias their calls, and get paid for it.

The words "and get paid for it" would suggest they're on the take. And the one above with the words "because the NBA wants them to" is far too nebulous.


And the way you stated both of these doesn't quite fit into what you perceive some people's positions here to be.

Shade
05-26-2006, 10:29 AM
There are many, many factors. I believe some refs are biased, and some are just stupid. I don't know that any refs are given "direct orders" to try to rig a game, but I think they know in the back of their minds who generates the most money for the NBA and who signs their checks.

Jermaniac
05-26-2006, 10:31 AM
#3, Refs are horrible human beings. Stealing games away from teams working hard to win them is not right.

DisplacedKnick
05-26-2006, 10:32 AM
Other - they bias calls based on who the player is.

I haven't talked to pro refs about this but I have talked to college refs. They're convinced of the following:

The NBA league office for the past 20 years has made it very plain - to everyone in the league - that the league is about individual players. The league was marketed based on Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc. The stars make the league.

According to college refs, whether it's been deliberately stated or not, pro officials are very aware of this and slant calls in favor of the stars - even the best refs do that at least in critical situations. It's a very rare (non-existent?) ref who would call a touch foul on Jordan down the stretch of a close game - but that same ref will very likely call it back the other way.

Ultimately (again, according to college refs) NBA refs are intimidated by the players - not in any physical way - but by this credo that the players are the game. It's drummed into them by the league at every opportunity.

rexnom
05-26-2006, 10:34 AM
Dick Bavetta has won the Heat more games this year than Shaq. Other than that, it's OK. Certainly not good, but it could be worse.

Shade
05-26-2006, 10:40 AM
Dick Bavetta has won the Heat more games this year than Shaq. Other than that, it's OK. Certainly not good, but it could be worse.

I couldn't help but laugh while the announcers were pumping up Bavetta's "greatness" last night, right before he single-handedly tried to bring the Heat all the way back. Hilarious. :laugh:

Bavetta is easily the worst, most biased official in the NBA.

Fool
05-26-2006, 11:07 AM
Well of course those of us whose teams are no longer in the playoffs to tend to have more time on our hands.

As for my answer to the question refs make mistakes and there are a few, probably more like 10%, who have a burr up their butts when it comes to certain players and coaches.

I wasn't talking specifically about this moment in time. Even when your team wins it all fans kick around the ref conspiracy thing.

grace
05-26-2006, 11:18 AM
According to college refs, whether it's been deliberately stated or not, pro officials are very aware of this and slant calls in favor of the stars - even the best refs do that at least in critical situations. It's a very rare (non-existent?) ref who would call a touch foul on Jordan down the stretch of a close game - but that same ref will very likely call it back the other way.

I was actually at Conseco when some ref called Michael Jordan for traveling when he was playing for the Wizards. One of the last happy times I had at a Pacers game. :cry:

8.9_seconds
05-26-2006, 01:42 PM
I couldn't help but laugh while the announcers were pumping up Bavetta's "greatness" last night, right before he single-handedly tried to bring the Heat all the way back. Hilarious. :laugh:

Bavetta is easily the worst, most biased official in the NBA.


I have to agree with both Shade and Rexom, last night at the end was horrible. First of all, right in front of him, Posey pushes Billups right out of bounds and Tay calls a timeout clearly, you could read his lips. Also, I like Posey, but he got away with murder last night at the tail-end. Sheed's block was clean; it was all ball, and I didn't see any body contact, the announcers even said it.

FrenchConnection
05-26-2006, 01:54 PM
Other - The league gives stars preferential treatment and also has refs do what they can to prolong playoff series.

Extra playoff games = more money for the league, so they try to make sure that sweeps do not occur too often.

Roaming Gnome
05-26-2006, 10:17 PM
Everything is implied and understood...
There is no edict from the league telling officials how to call a game, or what team is to advance. That would be an easy fraud to detect! We all know in life that it only takes one disgruntled employee or in this case...official to bring that house of cards down.

What I feel happens is this: The officials know that if they want to keep officiating high profile games and work the play-offs they have to toe the company line. This company line is not passed down from the league, but rather the veteran officials down to the young officials. It almost becomes like a code, if you will. Notice there are 88 different officials in the NBA system, but it's always the same guys that we all know and love (to hate) that officiate high profile games and work the play-offs. Officiating in big games is all about prestige. Any official in any league wants to call the big games. It is like being the recognized best in your field... Not to mention, the more games you work...the more $$$ there is to be made. Also, this prestige probably makes your job a lot easier dealing with players, coaches, and the league itself.

Kegboy
05-26-2006, 10:32 PM
Everything is implied and understood...
There is no edict from the league telling officials how to call a game, or what team is to advance. That would be an easy fraud to detect! We all know in life that it only takes one disgruntled employee or in this case...official to bring that house of cards down.

What I feel happens is this: The officials know that if they want to keep officiating high profile games and work the play-offs they have to toe the company line. This company line is not passed down from the league, but rather the veteran officials down to the young officials. It almost becomes like a code, if you will. Notice there are 88 different officials in the NBA system, but it's always the same guys that we all know and love (to hate) that officiate high profile games and work the play-offs. Officiating in big games is all about prestige. Any official in any league wants to call the big games. It is like being the recognized best in your field... Not to mention, the more games you work...the more $$$ there is to be made. Also, this prestige probably makes your job a lot easier dealing with players, coaches, and the league itself.

:nod:

You're dead on about how the vet officials "mentor" the young'ins. I noticed this with Bavetta years ago, back before it was the cool in-thing to hate on Bavetta. Watch the kids that are matched with Dick in the regular season. It's like he's Palpatine out there, pulling their strings, leading them down the path to the dark side.

And if I haven't said it lately, there are currently 1,996 reasons why I stopped getting tickets. The sorry state of NBA officiating is #3.

Eindar
05-27-2006, 02:17 AM
We've been over my beliefs already, and you didn't list it as an option in your poll.

I'm done chatting about it, I'm not going to write it in blood for you :)

Let it go, man.

Robertmto
05-27-2006, 02:40 AM
I don't think any refs carry personal grudges or try to be biased. I just believe that some refs show hat they are in charge by being very strict or being quil with the T's.

Unclebuck
05-27-2006, 10:12 AM
The refs hate Stern, if Stern told them to help the heat, they would help the Pistons.


Edit:


http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

The refs made a couple of interesting points

a) The thought that they're in cahoots with some master plan of David Stern is laughable to them. For one, they've been at odds with Stern for the past two years, ever since the officials protested a three-game suspension of colleague Michael Henderson for blowing a call by wearing their officials' shirts inside out and writing Henderson's No. 62 on their backs . The league and the officials' union have had some bitter labor negotiations as well. They say Stern barely even acknowledges them now.

Slick Pinkham
05-27-2006, 12:00 PM
UB, you know how conspiracies work... that's just a cover-up!

;)

Ron who?
05-27-2006, 12:04 PM
I agree with the personal grudge one but i wouldnt say 25+ % i would say something closer to 15%...... they all have personal grudges but i think only 15 % of them actually let it affect the game

vapacersfan
05-27-2006, 12:05 PM
The refs hate Stern, if Stern told them to help the heat, they would help the Pistons.


Edit:


http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

The refs made a couple of interesting points

a) The thought that they're in cahoots with some master plan of David Stern is laughable to them. For one, they've been at odds with Stern for the past two years, ever since the officials protested a three-game suspension of colleague Michael Henderson for blowing a call by wearing their officials' shirts inside out and writing Henderson's No. 62 on their backs . The league and the officials' union have had some bitter labor negotiations as well. They say Stern barely even acknowledges them now.

I have always thought if there was any kind of shady thing going on, Stern would not be the one directing it. That would be way to easy to uncover.

IMO it would be from someone at the top, but not someone who would get a lot of attention or press.

Just my .02

grace
05-27-2006, 12:38 PM
I have always thought if there was any kind of shady thing going on, Stern would not be the one directing it. That would be way to easy to uncover.

You're underestimating Stern's power.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=150595#post150595


Don't think I can't do it. If I can keep everyone quiet about me paying off the refs I can raise the dead too!

The reason it's not common knowlege is :mib: power.

Robertmto
05-27-2006, 03:47 PM
The refs may have personal grudges but i dont think they let it affect the game at all. Maybe more like 5%