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View Full Version : The 06-07 Pacers "Good Chemistry" Squad



Putnam
05-22-2006, 10:07 AM
"Chemistry" has been identified, along with injuries, as a problem contributing to the Pacers underachieving in what we can now call "the past." Some of that bad chemistry was Ron Artest, who is now gone. Some of it has to do with the players' relations with the coaching staff, which is still an issue.

I'd like to ask which players do and do not have good chemistry between and among themelves. Where is there any real animosity that could potentially poison next season? Always remembering talent and contracts, what player moves would be adviseable from the standpoint of improving the mood of the locker room?

Please limit this thread to player/player interactions. Personally, I don't know anything useful. When I attend games, I usually sit so high as not to see the players talking or not. When I watch games on TV, I see the usual glum bench but I don't know if Sarunas is moping or
concentrating on the game. I'm not even sure whether Jackson's criticism of Granger during the playoffs was positive or negative.

So please advise if you know which players do and don't trust each other on the floor or like each other off it?

Moses
05-22-2006, 11:19 AM
Jackson and AJ both supposedly have a few locker room issues. Not with eachother necesarily, but with the team as a whole.

Bball
05-22-2006, 11:24 AM
I don't think the players 100% buy into the dominant "JO Ball" system of Rick Carlisle and I believe that will always create issues among players. At least until JO morphs into a player he has never been so far (a player that makes quicker/better decisions with the ball, a better leader, and a more complete and mature player... and becomes a player that comes thru, not Mr 3rd Quarter or sitting on the bench injured)... or until a Pacer coach (Carlisle or a new coach) goes away from that system and minimizes some of the negatives (which Carlisle doesn't seem apt to do).

And I don't think all of the talk of spreading the floor, creating space for JO, getting a 'banger' to take the heat off JO, etc. will make much difference if we continue along the same lines and don't address the issue at its root.

I suppose if we want to keep running Carlisle's system then we need to get some older, more mature, veteran role players... and very little 'depth' or youth at all. Players that will willingly stay with the system and try and help JO rather than players that feel they are stunting their own NBA career by playing behind, or second fiddle to, O'Neal as he struggles.

IMHO... that is the root of the chemistry issues.

-Bball

Los Angeles
05-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Anymore when I hear the word "chemistry" I think of these guys:

http://www.whysanity.net/muppets/mimages/bunsen.gif

Puovils
05-22-2006, 03:18 PM
Cro
Saras
Danger
JO
Peja

Putnam
05-22-2006, 03:35 PM
Cro
Saras
Danger
JO
Peja

Let me get this straight. These are the guys you would WANT to see together for the sake of good chemistry?

Puovils
05-22-2006, 03:46 PM
Yes Sir

grace
05-22-2006, 03:57 PM
Anymore when I hear the word "chemistry" I think of these guys:

http://www.whysanity.net/muppets/mimages/bunsen.gif

Funny, I thought of these guys:

http://www.gamerevolution.com/oldsite/games/ps2/action/roadkill_cheech.jpg

SoupIsGood
05-22-2006, 04:04 PM
For a while, our bench had great chemistry. I think it was Saras, Harrison, Granger, Fred, and Croshere. They were great together and Saras was playing well.

pizza guy
05-22-2006, 04:16 PM
For a while, our bench had great chemistry. I think it was Saras, Harrison, Granger, Fred, and Croshere. They were great together and Saras was playing well.

There was a thread about this back when it happened. I'm too lazy to look it up, but it discussed how well Sarunas and Hulk worked together. The rest of those guys, I don't believe were discussed, but they really did play well together as a whole. Something about them seemed to fit right, and was very productive.

As far as chemistry is concerned, I think SJax has a lot to do with it because even if you like him off the court, on the court he is a black-hole that spends more time complaining to refs than actually contributing, and that leads to problems. Tinsley, whether you think his attitude is bad or not (I do), you cannot deny that his injury history causes problems; familiarity, chemistry, job security for AJ/Sarunas, continuity, whatever. And, Carlisle has to take some of the blame - players don't like his system, players don't like his discipline, players don't like his 'people skills' or lack thereof.

The chemistry is bad, and definately needs addressed if we plan on doing anything with JO as our 'franchise player.'

Eindar
05-22-2006, 08:32 PM
Anymore when I hear the word "chemistry" I think of these guys:

http://www.whysanity.net/muppets/mimages/bunsen.gif

I hear Beaker's got a lighting fast first step and a ton of upside. He's also very long.

Not much info on Bunson, but he's built kinda like Charles Barkley.

ChicagoJ
05-23-2006, 10:45 AM
Cro
Saras
Danger
JO
Peja

So we can feel great about having a lottery team full of "good guys?"

:puke:

(Besides, I don't see how Saras can be put with the 'good chemistry' guys after his repeated mouthing-off to the European press or his complaining about his role last season... he's as much a part of the problem as SJax or Tinsley. In fact, adding his surly attitude the Pacers is probably what pushed them from merely rotten chemistry last season to an outright disaster.)

Moses
05-23-2006, 11:12 AM
So we can feel great about having a lottery team full of "good guys?"

:puke:

(Besides, I don't see how Saras can be put with the 'good chemistry' guys after his repeated mouthing-off to the European press or his complaining about his role last season... he's as much a part of the problem as SJax or Tinsley. In fact, adding his surly attitude the Pacers is probably what pushed them from merely rotten chemistry last season to an outright disaster.)
Gotta love when people over exagerate situations on Saras. If you honestly think Saras was the reason this team sucked so bad this year, you're insane. He's a rookie..Look at any other Euro all-star in this league and tell me they made an impact in their first season. Especially under a coach like Carlisle.

Sometimes I think you guys just do this crap to bait the Euro's into arguing with you which eventually turns from a Runi argument into a US vs Euro ball argument.

Putnam
05-23-2006, 11:16 AM
I don't see how Saras can be put with the 'good chemistry' guys after his repeated mouthing-off to the European press or his complaining about his role last season... he's as much a part of the problem as SJax or Tinsley.


I agree. Sarunas is a big wild card, characterwise. On a winning team, he can be a spark of enthusiasm. But when the team plays badly, he complains and accuses and sulks. That's not the way for a rookie to behave.

Moses: this thread only pertains to Sarunas' effect on team chemistry -- not to his ability as a player or his effect on games. Europeans: Don't Worry, Be Happy.

Kestas
05-23-2006, 12:03 PM
I agree. Sarunas is a big wild card, characterwise. On a winning team, he can be a spark of enthusiasm. But when the team plays badly, he complains and accuses and sulks. That's not the way for a rookie to behave.


but he won't be a rookie next season ;)
generally I'd agree with Puovils. besides, if players are reasonable and have a gift of thinking (which, I hope, is present with all of the mentioned players), they can separate reasonable talking from BS talking and in that way things Jay mentioned should not have any sort of bad influence on a team's mycroclimate. Saras did not voice a single lie (it appears some would like him to lie or to skip questions with European press?) throughout this season and if he did - point at it, please.

Since86
05-23-2006, 12:30 PM
but he won't be a rookie next season ;)
generally I'd agree with Puovils. besides, if players are reasonable and have a gift of thinking (which, I hope, is present with all of the mentioned players), they can separate reasonable talking from BS talking and in that way things Jay mentioned should not have any sort of bad influence on a team's mycroclimate. Saras did not voice a single lie (it appears some would like him to lie or to skip questions with European press?) throughout this season and if he did - point at it, please.

It's not about lying. It's about airing a team's dirty laundry out in public, which is a big no-no. You keep in house problems, in house.

PacerMan
05-23-2006, 12:48 PM
It's not about lying. It's about airing a team's dirty laundry out in public, which is a big no-no. You keep in house problems, in house.


Not if it's being ignored in house.

Since86
05-23-2006, 01:21 PM
Not if it's being ignored in house.

:laugh: Because telling a reporter from Europe is going to make management notice.....

Los Angeles
05-23-2006, 01:29 PM
I hear Beaker's got a lighting fast first step and a ton of upside. He's also very long.

Not much info on Bunson, but he's built kinda like Anthony Johnson.

Fixed. ;)

bulldog
05-23-2006, 01:38 PM
I don't think Saras knew that sort of stuff was frowned upon in the U.S. Players and coaches in Europe are generally more open to the media (however, I also think they generally communicate more as a group). He made a mistake, deserves to get critiscized for it, but it's not yet close to the duration and level of Tins' injuries and SJax...well, just being SJax.

ChicagoJ
05-23-2006, 04:58 PM
I don't think Saras knew that sort of stuff was frowned upon in the U.S. Players and coaches in Europe are generally more open to the media (however, I also think they generally communicate more as a group). He made a mistake, deserves to get critiscized for it, but it's not yet close to the duration and level of Tins' injuries and SJax...well, just being SJax.

Agreed. I didn't say Saras is the sole cause of poor chemistry. But he took a really bad situation and made it even worse.