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heywoode
05-18-2006, 08:15 PM
Not trying to start a fight here, I just read this in my hometown paper and thought it was worth posting.



I know Dave personally and he is a religious and quirky guy. He also happens to be a very talented writer who offers good commentary on his mundane experiences here in good old Huntington, Indiana. He is almost always a good read...







DAVE SCHULTZ: It's simple - I hope he loses




There's a Rasheed Wallace Web site. It says he reads all of his mail.

I wonder, though, if someone actually has to read it to him. He may have gone to college (North Carolina), but he doesn't seem to be exceptionally developed in a cranial sense.
For those of you who don't know, Rasheed Wallace is a very talented basketball player who is currently employed by the Detroit Pistons. He has a problem with his mouth. He opens it. Words come out.

When Wallace played with the Portland Trailblazers, he would get technical fouls the way Reggie Miller used to get 3-point field goals - regularly, early, and often. It's tough to contribute to your team's success when you're sitting in the locker room after being ejected, but ‘Sheed never seemed to pick up on that concept.

Then he was traded to the Detroit Pistons, a franchise that has never really erased the odor of the “Bad Boys” of 15 or 16 years ago. Finding a home there, a certified bad boy among the kinda bad boys, he's been a part of the Pistons' recent success.

He's also found his own niche in the National Basketball Association's publicity machine. He's the guy who guarantees victories. <table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width=""> <tbody><tr> <td class="photo-left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="photo-left" width="">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Wallace's success in this process came at the expense of the Indiana Pacers. Living in Indiana and being a fan of all things Hoosier, I didn't like the idea that this bozo would guarantee a victory and that then he went out and did it against the good guys.

Wallace did it earlier this week against the Cleveland Cavaliers - guaranteed a victory, that is - and his team lost. After the game he did not apologize, just shrugging it off. There was no way that his team (the Pistons) would lose the series to that team (the Cavaliers), he said.

Then, last night, improbably, the NBA's best player (at this time), Lebron James, led Cleveland past Rasheed Wallace and Rasheed Wallace's mouth by a score of 86 to 84. Friday night, Mr. Wallace and his mouth could both be sidelined if the Cavaliers hold their home-court advantage.

Justice delayed is justice denied, goes the saying. I wish the Pacers could have stifled this dim bulb; since they didn't, I hope the Cavaliers can do it.

Wallace is an anti-hero - the designated villain in a sporting soap opera. For all the joy we get out of sports, it seems unfortunate that someone who takes the spotlight away from that joy and puts it firmly on himself and what he says should be rewarded with any degree of success.

If there is a spectrum of bad to good things in sports, with 1 being bad and 10 being good, we'll put Rasheed Wallace at about a 0.5. A world of potential, marvelous ability, brain-dead, and selfish.

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be Rasheed Wallace.

Dave Schultz is associate editor of The Herald-Press. His e-mail address is dschultz@h-ponline.com

PacerMan
05-18-2006, 08:42 PM
Not trying to start a fight here, I just read this in my hometown paper and thought it was worth posting.



I know Dave personally and he is a religious and quirky guy. He also happens to be a very talented writer who offers good commentary on his mundane experiences here in good old Huntington, Indiana. He is almost always a good read...







DAVE SCHULTZ: It's simple - I hope he loses




There's a Rasheed Wallace Web site. It says he reads all of his mail.

I wonder, though, if someone actually has to read it to him. He may have gone to college (North Carolina), but he doesn't seem to be exceptionally developed in a cranial sense.
For those of you who don't know, Rasheed Wallace is a very talented basketball player who is currently employed by the Detroit Pistons. He has a problem with his mouth. He opens it. Words come out.

When Wallace played with the Portland Trailblazers, he would get technical fouls the way Reggie Miller used to get 3-point field goals - regularly, early, and often. It's tough to contribute to your team's success when you're sitting in the locker room after being ejected, but ‘Sheed never seemed to pick up on that concept.

Then he was traded to the Detroit Pistons, a franchise that has never really erased the odor of the “Bad Boys” of 15 or 16 years ago. Finding a home there, a certified bad boy among the kinda bad boys, he's been a part of the Pistons' recent success.

He's also found his own niche in the National Basketball Association's publicity machine. He's the guy who guarantees victories. <table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width=""> <tbody><tr> <td class="photo-left">
</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="photo-left" width="">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Wallace's success in this process came at the expense of the Indiana Pacers. Living in Indiana and being a fan of all things Hoosier, I didn't like the idea that this bozo would guarantee a victory and that then he went out and did it against the good guys.

Wallace did it earlier this week against the Cleveland Cavaliers - guaranteed a victory, that is - and his team lost. After the game he did not apologize, just shrugging it off. There was no way that his team (the Pistons) would lose the series to that team (the Cavaliers), he said.

Then, last night, improbably, the NBA's best player (at this time), Lebron James, led Cleveland past Rasheed Wallace and Rasheed Wallace's mouth by a score of 86 to 84. Friday night, Mr. Wallace and his mouth could both be sidelined if the Cavaliers hold their home-court advantage.

Justice delayed is justice denied, goes the saying. I wish the Pacers could have stifled this dim bulb; since they didn't, I hope the Cavaliers can do it.

Wallace is an anti-hero - the designated villain in a sporting soap opera. For all the joy we get out of sports, it seems unfortunate that someone who takes the spotlight away from that joy and puts it firmly on himself and what he says should be rewarded with any degree of success.

If there is a spectrum of bad to good things in sports, with 1 being bad and 10 being good, we'll put Rasheed Wallace at about a 0.5. A world of potential, marvelous ability, brain-dead, and selfish.

Mama, don't let your babies grow up to be Rasheed Wallace.

Dave Schultz is associate editor of The Herald-Press. His e-mail address is dschultz@h-ponline.com


Couldn't have said it better myself. A brain-dead moron. :)
Atta boy shWEED!

N8R
05-18-2006, 09:40 PM
It will be interesting to read Sheeds quote if they lose the series.

Reporter: "How does this lose feel to you Rasheed?"
Sheed: "It dont matter. We will win the series"
Reporter: "You just LOST the series"
Sheed: "We don't lose series, check your stats again."
Reporter: "Um Shee.."
Sheed: "WE DON'T LOSE SERIES ALRIGHT. Now move, I got a fatty to light up. See y'all for game 8, Biatches"

Moses
05-18-2006, 09:57 PM
It will be interesting to read Sheeds quote if they lose the series.

Reporter: "How does this lose feel to you Rasheed?"
Sheed: "It dont matter. We will win the series"
Reporter: "You just LOST the series"
Sheed: "We don't lose series, check your stats again."
Reporter: "Um Shee.."
Sheed: "WE DON'T LOSE SERIES ALRIGHT. Now move, I got a fatty to light up. See y'all for game 8, Biatches"
Rofl, That's post of the year award material.

Kstat
05-18-2006, 10:01 PM
Then he was traded to the Detroit Pistons, a franchise that has never really erased the odor of the “Bad Boys” of 15 or 16 years ago.

That's a line that tells me all I need to know about the author, who really has no earth clue what he's talking about.

Like we should be ashamed of the bad boys. :lmao:

Small-town thinking from a small-town paper taking small cheap shots at SHeed while he's down.

Gosh, we should all follow his noble example... :rolleyes:

Yes, captain obvious, Sheed is a loudmouth and he doesnt know when to shut up. Thanks for telling us all something we already knew.

I pray to god that my bias isnt that blatently obvious in my first sportswriting job.

pizza guy
05-18-2006, 10:08 PM
That's a line that tells me all I need to know about the author, who really has no earth clue what he's talking about.

Like we should be ashamed of the bad boys. :lmao:

Small-town thinking from a small-town paper taking small cheap shots at SHeed while he's down.

Gosh, we should all follow his noble example... :rolleyes:

Yes, captain obvious, Sheed is a loudmouth and he doesnt know when to shut up. Thanks for telling us all something we already knew.

I pray to god that my bias isnt that blatently obvious in my first beat writing job.

That was the only suspisicous quote in it though. So, maybe you're proud of the 'bad boy' image. Congrats, it got ya some bling - the fact remains that they earned the name 'bad boys' for a reason.

And, Kstat, can you actually disagree about anything said in reference to 'Sheed?

EDIT: BTW, Kstat, your sig is hilarious!

Kstat
05-18-2006, 10:17 PM
That was the only suspisicous quote in it though. So, maybe you're proud of the 'bad boy' image. Congrats, it got ya some bling - the fact remains that they earned the name 'bad boys' for a reason.

And, Kstat, can you actually disagree about anything said in reference to 'Sheed?

EDIT: BTW, Kstat, your sig is hilarious!

Its a lazily written article that misses the point completely.

Basketball isnt about which team has the nicer group of choir boys. The writer seems to forget that.

He is correct in saying that Wallace is the anti-hero. Where he goes astray is when he says that its a shame he's rewarded for it.

He's rewarded because his team wins, not because he make guarentees. I'm sorry, but this is real life, and the bad guy can win. Get used to it.

The claim that Sheed is selfish also couldnt be further from the truth. He makes misteakes, but not out of selfishness.

It's just another spite-filled sheed article, and brings absolutely nothing new to the table. This could have been written by any of 500 forum members here. Nothing to see here except a fanboy venting.

DisplacedKnick
05-18-2006, 10:28 PM
Well, it's an editorial and editorials are designed to get a rise out of people. It didn't do much for me though.

This is another quote that's a bit off:

Wallace is an anti-hero - the designated villain in a sporting soap opera. For all the joy we get out of sports, it seems unfortunate that someone who takes the spotlight away from that joy and puts it firmly on himself and what he says should be rewarded with any degree of success.

Folks everywhere in every field have been bragging about stuff. It's part of the game ever since some caveman bashed another's head in and hooted his way back to his cave. Babe Ruth did it, Mohammed Ali, etc.

Wallace's star has dimmed a little - his bonehead play left Horry wide open last year in the finals and his predictions haven't worked this year, but there sure seems to be a rush to declare Detroit dead, just like Phoenix in the 1st rd. They aren't there yet.

pizza guy
05-18-2006, 10:33 PM
Well, here's another thing to consider.

It was written in Huntington, IN. Obviously, I wouldn't expect you to know anything about Huntington, so, I'll try to give a little background.

Huntington University is one of the main attractions to the city (it is why I'll be there next year), and it's a private-Christian school. The town itself is very religious also. There's hardly a street corner without a church -- even the theatre in town holds Bible studies. And, like Heywoode said, the writer is religious as well.

Now, I know, that may not mean much to the average person, but put yourself in that mindset and think about what he's saying about 'Sheed. Every word then becomes true, 'Sheed and the Pistons are evil (not only for being loud-mouthed, but for beating the 'good guys' that are the Pacers...:laugh: ) and it's completely believable.

For anyone who wants to jump on me for stereo-typing religious people, go ahead, since I am one. Like I said I'll be going to HU this fall, so, I've learned a little about the city and college and feel I'm adequately informed to give that synopsis. However, if Heywoode would like to correct me, I'm sure he knows more than I do.

PacerMan
05-18-2006, 11:06 PM
I pray to god that my bias isnt that blatently obvious in my first sportswriting job.


You've got a LOT of work to do.

PacerMan
05-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Its a lazily written article that misses the point completely.



The title of HIS article is " I hope he loses". What part of that point does he miss completely. :rolleyes:

heywoode
05-18-2006, 11:31 PM
So much for not starting a fight...

pizza guy is close enough to right on in his synopsis of Huntington. The old downtown theater went out of the movie business when the 7-plex with stadium seating and purty lights went in next to AppleBee's on the north side. The old building was a problem until it was finally sold to a religious group affilliated with some church I don't know and is a church now.

There is also a strong Catholic presence in Huntington County. There are two major Catholic churches and a Catholic school. Meat and potatoes country, to be sure, and pardon the Quayle pun. Let's not forget his role in this...;)

None of the info in the preceding two paragraphs had anything to do with Dave or the article he wrote. It was an editorial, not a sports piece, and it was opinion. You know, something that isn't supposed to be had nowadays...

I can understand Kstat's dilemma, but the truth is the truth. Rasheed, although he has great talent, and usually still displays it, is in the same category as about 5% of the league. Players who are good at doing and saying things that get their names in the paper for saying and doing outrageous or controversial things, and they usually end up being portrayed in a negative light. That doesn't mean that's all he is, but it is usually an accurate description.

He has perfect freedom to be "himself" and say and do the things he does. That doesn't make it right, or any less subject to discussion and opinions being formed about him based on that behavior. Most people outside of Detroit probably feel like he is a undesirable person simply because they don't see or hear much more about him than the negative stuff. He is definitely smart enough to know that it only makes things worse for himself and everyone else when he can't control himself in one way or another. The fact that he can't stop doing it is what 'tells me all I need to know'.

If more players had Rasheed's attitude and demeanor the league would not be better. It would be far worse. You could say that he does affect the overall attitude of the league because other players see his behavior and think the bar is raised, so to speak, about what is tolerable to the officials, the league, the fans, the media...

He has stated many times that he relishes playing the role he does, and that also tells me alot. Basketball doesn't have to be about who has the nicer group of choir boys, but it's supposed to be about the team rather than the player. I know they are successful as a team, but it is at least somewhat in spite of Rasheed, even though it is also, and moreso, because of Rasheed. It isn't that they win, it's HOW they (or mostly Rasheed) win that is the problem. Yes, this is real life, and the bad guy can win. That too, doesn't make it right. Good is better than bad, I looked it up...Supposed to be that way.

Aside from all that, it IS still just a game...If it weren't for basketball, he would probably just be some random jerk somewhere that made his circle of existence miserable every once in a while...

Apologies to you Kstat, if my stance on Mr. Wallace is too harsh for your taste...I've got no problem with anyone not named Wallace on the Pistons, and like most of what the franchise is about. You have alot to be proud of with them...I wish we had a taste of the success the Pistons have had.

Go Cleveland!!

Kstat
05-18-2006, 11:39 PM
If more players had Rasheed's attitude and demeanor the league would not be better.

If every player was like Grant Hill it couldnt be better either....


He has stated many times that he relishes playing the role he does, and that also tells me alot. Basketball doesn't have to be about who has the nicer group of choir boys, but it's supposed to be about the team rather than the player. I know they are successful as a team, but it is at least somewhat in spite of Rasheed, even though it is also, and moreso, because of Rasheed. It isn't that they win, it's HOW they (or mostly Rasheed) win that is the problem. Yes, this is real life, and the bad guy can win. That too, doesn't make it right. Good is better than bad, I looked it up...Supposed to be that way.

And I relish people disliking the Pistons. I have since I was a little kid.

In basketball, good and bad are the same. There's no "better." You can be the hero or the villian, it's simply playing a role either way. A lot of good people have made a living playing "bad" athletes, and plenty of bad people have played "good" athletes.

The Pistons have the identitiy of the villians. Quite frankly, I consider myself blessed as a fan. You know how many NBA teams have NO identity at all? We're one of the very lucky few that has an established identitiy we know we can win with.


It isn't that they win, it's HOW they (or mostly Rasheed) win that is the problem.

I enjoy how they win. They wouldnt be as good of a team if they tried to be nice and friendly. That's a big reason why they are in the hole they're in right now: not because of the guarentee, but they lost the angry edge to their game that they needed to back it up.


Aside from all that, it IS still just a game...

:ding:

You summed up the fault of the article even thout my help.


If it weren't for basketball, he would probably just be some random jerk somewhere that made his circle of existence miserable every once in a while...

...and then you fall right back into the trap.

Rasheed has never proven to be a bad human being outside the spotlight. In fact, he's one of the most charitable human beings ever to wear a Piston uniform. To stereotype him in that light is, well, you can fill in the blank.

1. He's a loudmouth.

2. He speaks/act without thinking occasionally.

3. His NBA persona is of a villian.

The problem I have is when people who dont know him try to take personal jabs at him.

In the world of sports, there always needs to be someone to root against. Sheed knows this, and he plays the role gladly. But people need to realize that it is what it is: a role.

There's a differece between "bad" and "evil". Rasheed has proven to be the former, not the latter.

heywoode
05-19-2006, 12:09 AM
Well, has he not been in trouble with the law, outside of basketball? To say that he is charitable, is fine, but it is pretty easy to be seen as charitable when you are making millions for playing a game, and you are also forced to give of your time by the teams and the league...He does the standard PR stuff most players do, to their alma maters, etc...The world is a better place, so you can't fault it...They could do SO much more...They do more than me, but they HAVE so much more than me! Put them on the same level as a normal salaried worker who had to carry his fair share at a regular job, and the behavior would end up being the same, just with different circumstances and different consequences.

If basketball is reduced to characters playing roles instead of grown men displaying skill and working as a unit to play the game, it is no different in my eyes than professional wrestling.



1. He's a loudmouth.

2. He speaks/act without thinking occasionally.

3. His NBA persona is of a villian....Sheed knows this, and he plays the role gladly...



I never said he was evil, I said he would be a jerk. Your examples fit that definition pretty well. He surely has good qualities, and is probably great to his wife and kids. That is all well and good. It doesn't change the fact that what I know of him, I don't like.

The fact that it's a game isn't the fault of the article. Again, just commentary on a storyline in the recent news...

Oh, and I'll take a couple hundred healthy-bodied Grant Hill type players over Rasheed clones any day of the week.

rexnom
05-19-2006, 12:16 AM
That's a line that tells me all I need to know about the author, who really has no earth clue what he's talking about.

Like we should be ashamed of the bad boys. :lmao:

Small-town thinking from a small-town paper taking small cheap shots at SHeed while he's down.

Gosh, we should all follow his noble example... :rolleyes:

Yes, captain obvious, Sheed is a loudmouth and he doesnt know when to shut up. Thanks for telling us all something we already knew.

I pray to god that my bias isnt that blatently obvious in my first sportswriting job.

As a Pacer fan who really wants Cleveland to win, I have to say I agree. Sheed still remains one of this league's best players. He is a superb defender and a key to the Pistons offense. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pistons' struggles have coincided with his injury. I enjoy his antics and I think some people should lighten up in terms of what he says. And despite what people think, Sheed has emerged as a leader on that Pistons team and I'm fairly sure that almost every team in the NBA would love to have him.

Kstat
05-19-2006, 12:22 AM
Oh, and I'll take a couple hundred healthy-bodied Grant Hill type players over Rasheed clones any day of the week.

Very easy for you to say.

The Pistons as a franchise lost more money during the grant hill era than at any other point in Pistons history. I certainly don't blame Grant Hill, but his personality took the teeth out of the franchise.

WHat works for one team doesnt always work for another.


Well, has he not been in trouble with the law, outside of basketball? To say that he is charitable, is fine, but it is pretty easy to be seen as charitable when you are making millions for playing a game, and you are also forced to give of your time by the teams and the league...He does the standard PR stuff most players do, to their alma maters, etc...The world is a better place, so you can't fault it...They could do SO much more...

No other Piston has ever done more than Sheed, and that includes choir boy Grant Hill.

Rasheed adopted an entire highschool. He's sponsored countless poor kids, improved school conditions.

Sheed goes above and beyond like very few athletes do.


If basketball is reduced to characters playing roles instead of grown men displaying skill and working as a unit to play the game, it is no different in my eyes than professional wrestling.

So be it. This is basketball, not church. It also doesnt take away from the game on the floor, it simply adds to the drama.


The fact that it's a game isn't the fault of the article.

It is when the person writing it loses track of the fact he's writing about someone as an athlete and not a human being.

I wish this guy was writing 15 years ago. I would LOVE to read some of his observations on class acts like Kirby Puckett, who played the smiling choir boy on TV and then went home and beat up his wife off-camera....

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-19-2006, 04:46 AM
What I really want to know is, will Sheed ever Guarasheed again?

Big Smooth
05-19-2006, 04:56 AM
I hold Huntington in some degree of contempt for personal reasons. ;)

I'm sure plenty of articles have been written bashing Rasheed. After all, he sticks his neck out.

heywoode
05-19-2006, 10:48 AM
Very easy for you to say.

The Pistons as a franchise lost more money during the grant hill era than at any other point in Pistons history. I certainly don't blame Grant Hill, but his personality took the teeth out of the franchise.

WHat works for one team doesnt always work for another.



I didn't want to make this an argument, but you seem bent on defending Rasheed and all things Piston to the death.
It is easy for me to say that because Grant Hill is much easier to like than Rasheed Wallace. He doesn't run his mouth like a moron like Rasheed does. He doesn't do all the other annoying things that Rasheed does. He has a sense of the fact that people have a responsibility to be somewhat civil to one another for the common good. Rasheed is not alone in his actions, but he is the person we are talking about right now. I'm not singling him out as the only person who is unacceptable and unlikeable to me. To me, the growing number of players like him is indicative of the loudmouth jerk mentality that is constantly being pushed to be acceptable. The more of these a$$holes we tolerate and celebrate, the worse our society becomes. The fact that it comes down to money to you isn't encouraging either...Why should that have any bearing on the discussion? If they all played nude, I bet they would sell a ton of tickets to single women...If they were allowed to carry weapons and slash each other on the way to the hoop, they would appeal more to the WWE crowd...Like I've said several times already, that doesn't make it right. Argue all you want about what is acceptable, and talk about relishing being hated, but RIGHT is RIGHT. Good is good, and bad is bad. If you enjoy being bad, then we don't have much to talk about.

The article written that started all this was talking as a generality that it is a sad state of affairs when the bad guy gets to win, and it laments the fact that this is the world we live in. 'I hope he loses' hits it on the head.




No other Piston has ever done more than Sheed, and that includes choir boy Grant Hill.

Rasheed adopted an entire highschool. He's sponsored countless poor kids, improved school conditions.

Sheed goes above and beyond like very few athletes do.


Plenty of athletes adopt their 'entire' high schools (or other schools that aren't their alma mater). Many athletes have charitable organizations going in several different cities...Their hometown, their current city of residence, the city where they play, etc...Most athletes that get traded tend to keep things going in the city they are leaving behind. Given the amount of money he makes, his charity work doesn't offset or excuse his almost incessant negative behavior and demeanor.



So be it. This is basketball, not church. It also doesnt take away from the game on the floor, it simply adds to the drama.


I don't agree with 'so be it'. Basketball is a game of intelligence and teamwork and it degrades the integrity of the game to have players like Rasheed play it. It doesn't have to be "church", but it needs to have integrity. I don't need to see drama, I want to see basketball. When Rasheed concentrates on basketball, he is fun and entertaining to watch and I can admire his abilities. When he does all the negative stuff, it takes away from that. I'll not believe any argument against that fact.



It is when the person writing it loses track of the fact he's writing about someone as an athlete and not a human being.


Hey, the minute he wants to act a role and play a villain and relish being disliked, he opens himself up for criticism on that level. He is a human being, but not a very likeable one. And admittedly, he LIKES the fact that he's not likeable. Are you defending him and trying to convince me that I shouldn't hold it against him that he's a jerk and he likes being a jerk?




I wish this guy was writing 15 years ago. I would LOVE to read some of his observations on class acts like Kirby Puckett, who played the smiling choir boy on TV and then went home and beat up his wife off-camera....

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of athletes and celebrities doing the same thing that you are saying about Kirby Puckett. If the story comes out that he beats on his wife, I'm sure that someone, Dave probably included, would write an article criticizing him for it. Unfortunately, there would also be someone who was a Kirby fan who would be there to point out that he was really a great guy with all the charity work he did, and that he helped his team win and make a bunch of money, so that other stuff really isn't that important. I'm not equating being a loudmouth jerk to being a wife beater, but the analogy is still a valid one. I don't know that Rasheed isn't a great guy out of the public eye. I don't know that he IS either. Given the behavior I get to read about and see all the time, my guess is that he is as capable as the next person of dropping his behavior to the next lower level or two of acceptability, down to the area that we have laws against said behavior. Again, he isn't alone, but it is still true.

You can defend him all you want, the facts remain that he is an a$$hole and he likes being one. That may be great and entertaining for you and the rest of the Rasheed fans, but in my world, that is unacceptable and unlikeable.

heywoode
05-19-2006, 10:52 AM
As a Pacer fan who really wants Cleveland to win, I have to say I agree. Sheed still remains one of this league's best players. He is a superb defender and a key to the Pistons offense. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Pistons' struggles have coincided with his injury. I enjoy his antics and I think some people should lighten up in terms of what he says. And despite what people think, Sheed has emerged as a leader on that Pistons team and I'm fairly sure that almost every team in the NBA would love to have him.

He is a good player, but I wouldn't characterize him as superb in any way.

I'm not opposed to lightening up about what he says, if it can all be taken with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, the more people are rubbed the wrong way, the more raw they get about it. Rasheed's 'antics' are growing tiresome and as they do, the patience to lighten up goes away.

I wouldn't have him on my team if he played for free. If the Pacers acquired him, I would be much less of a Pacer fan.

Fool
05-19-2006, 11:58 AM
I am not getting into this Rasheed debate.

I do want to say that this quote, "they do more than me because they have more than me" is completely false.

How much you do has NOTHING to do with how much money you have. I do very little myself but its not because I "don't have the money" to do it. I choose not to and its a knock on me that I choose so. But no one should be deluded into thinking "they can't" because "they don't have the money to".

Those who need it don't check your balances before they accept help from you.

rexnom
05-19-2006, 12:16 PM
He is a good player, but I wouldn't characterize him as superb in any way.

I'm not opposed to lightening up about what he says, if it can all be taken with a grain of salt. Unfortunately, the more people are rubbed the wrong way, the more raw they get about it. Rasheed's 'antics' are growing tiresome and as they do, the patience to lighten up goes away.

I wouldn't have him on my team if he played for free. If the Pacers acquired him, I would be much less of a Pacer fan.

I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think he is a superb player. If the Pacers got him for free this off-season we would be a contender again.

heywoode
05-19-2006, 12:23 PM
I am not getting into this Rasheed debate.

I do want to say that this quote, "they do more than me because they have more than me" is completely false.

How much you do has NOTHING to do with how much money you have. I do very little myself but its not because I "don't have the money" to do it. I choose not to and its a knock on me that I choose so. But no one should be deluded into thinking "they can't" because "they don't have the money to".

Those who need it don't check your balances before they accept help from you.


Having several million dollars in the bank tends to make one in a little more philanthropic mood. I agree that the giving of one's time should have nothing to do with how much one has or makes...I only meant that on sheer volume, he and plenty others do more than me because they can afford to. If he was making $50,000 a year, I'm doubting he would give a half million to charity every year.

Every person has a right to do as much or as little as they want. I was merely pointing out that given how much money he has, and how his life is structured that a game is his job and he has quite a bit of free time, he should be doing a ton of good things.

I don't delude myself into excusing my inaction by the fact that I don't make millions. I do what I feel comfortable doing, both in time and in monetary ways. I don't feel guilty about it because I think every contribution helps, regardless of how small. I feel I do my fair share and that is good enough for me.

I'm not trying to start another argument, just trying to clarify a little more what I was trying to say.

heywoode
05-19-2006, 12:25 PM
I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think he is a superb player. If the Pacers got him for free this off-season we would be a contender again.

We would be a contender at the expense of our credibility. I don't want that.

I believe what I believe about him. I guess our definitions of superb may be the problem. He is obviously very talented. It is simply a shame that his talent is often overshadowed by his mouth.

Fool
05-19-2006, 12:43 PM
Credibility as what?

Please take that as a real question and not as a snide remark as I am really asking and not making a snide remark.

Also, were you less credible in the begining of the year with Ron Artest? (I know many hate to have that enter as an issue but it seems unavoidable given the subject and the claims being made.)

heywoode
05-19-2006, 01:00 PM
Credibility as what?

Please take that as a real question and not as a snide remark as I am really asking and not making a snide remark.

Also, were you less credible in the begining of the year with Ron Artest? (I know many hate to have that enter as an issue but it seems unavoidable given the subject and the claims being made.)

The Ron Artest issue is a valid one and I can honestly say that if Ron had behaved himself and turned into a model citizen, I could live with success and Ron being a part of it. Since he obviously hasn't changed, I'm thrilled that he is now gone. Had we kept him and he had not changed, and we became successful, the joy of that success would be diminished and I would feel sheepish about being a fan of a team that cared more about winning than character.

That is the credibility I speak of. I realize that credibility is in the eye of the beholder, but putting character over profitability and winning is a decent enough definition for me. His being a knucklehead and being part of my beloved Pacers did not do much for my joy level while he was here. There were times when Ron was acting up that I felt bad for the franchise and almost ashamed that I was a fan of it.

Fool
05-19-2006, 01:10 PM
So, for you, the 61 season was tainted (while it was happening or just in hind sight) just because Artest was involved in it?

heywoode
05-19-2006, 01:18 PM
So, for you, the 61 season was tainted (while it was happening or just in hind sight) just because Artest was involved in it?

I would say it is diminished a little, but I wasn't aware of him being a jerk at the time, so I wasn't worried about it at the time. Had he been doing and saying the things of the same nature as the last two years, then yes, it would be tainted.

I want to win the way the Spurs win. I don't hear much in the way of negativity regarding players on their team. Maybe the media sugarcoats it, or maybe it just doesn't get reported when something negative happens...All I know is, the Spurs are regarded as a class organization from top to bottom and they are very successful. If they had Rasheed, Ron, or any number of other players in the same vein, they would be looked at with less high regard (at least by ME). That is my only argument of this whole thread in defending the article and it's author...

rexnom
05-19-2006, 01:39 PM
I would say it is diminished a little, but I wasn't aware of him being a jerk at the time, so I wasn't worried about it at the time. Had he been doing and saying the things of the same nature as the last two years, then yes, it would be tainted.

I want to win the way the Spurs win. I don't hear much in the way of negativity regarding players on their team. Maybe the media sugarcoats it, or maybe it just doesn't get reported when something negative happens...All I know is, the Spurs are regarded as a class organization from top to bottom and they are very successful. If they had Rasheed, Ron, or any number of other players in the same vein, they would be looked at with less high regard (at least by ME). That is my only argument of this whole thread in defending the article and it's author...

I really can't say I agree. If we win then we win. Most talent comes with some lack of classiness according to your definition. Most the greats of the 90s: John Stockton, one of the dirtiest players of his era, MJ, Scottie Pippen, Shaq, all the Knicks franchises of the 90s, Zo, the list goes on. Again, like KStat said, this is basketball. As long as the pieces fit, like Sheed fits in Detroit, then I don't see a problem with this "lack of classiness."

heywoode
05-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Without wanting to come off holier-than-thou, the opinion of tolerating classlessness is everyone's right, but is still not the right way.

I would say that it doesn't matter to me that classlessness is tolerated, condoned, and even celebrated, but it DOES matter to me.

I can agree with the fact that Rasheed and the current crop of classless people idolized for their talent and ability aren't the first such crop. The argument is a moot point because of that.

Basically we live in an imperfect world and it is mostly unrealistic to think that we can exist without the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. That doesn't mean I have to celebrate them, or have respect for them when they win. Their accolades mean less than the ones who do it with class.

If we knew everything about everything, there surely has never been a team of boy scouts win anything. It is disheartening and depressing to think about that fact. We are all human and subject to some form of forgiveness for our missteps, but I wish there was more of a line with what is tolerated.

larry
05-19-2006, 07:09 PM
pretty good, but i doubt detroit and dumars want to erase the so caleed odor of the bad boys. they are a team that has an idenity the city can relate to and cheer for. certain teams keep an identity beyond players. when you think of the steelers you think smashmouth football. detroit's idenity works they are one of the nba's best teams in performance and attendance. that said... sheed will look dumb and if prince didn't block reggie he wpuldn't of came off the court yelling i told you so. that was bs. you know jordan gaurnteed game 7 against the pacers 1 year and he wasn't looked at as a bad guy. of course sheed has a bad reputation following him anyway. i may root for detroit tonite, because as i keep saying we are going to see plenty of lebron.

TheLemonSong
05-19-2006, 08:11 PM
Ya know what?
I'd love..I mean *LOVE*..to post some kind of anti-Sheed message here...but I can't get past the fact that he says what every player thinks and every fan wants to hear!

Rather than hear JO say the cookie-cutter "Well, the Nets are a great team and they're going to come out and play hard in game 3. We're just going to try to play our game and match their intensity, and hopefully we'll come out with a double-u," wouldn't you rather hear him say, "No, I don't care which way you slice it, we *will* beat them. I have control of my own destiny and I am going to *will* this team to victory because I believe in myself and my teammates and I have supreme confidence that we are going to beat them!"

I know it's politically incorrect for a player to talk like they're Bob Knight, but as much as I dislike Sheed, I commend him for being a real person!

...and another thing! Does anyone really care that the dude does drugs? C'mon.

pizza guy
05-22-2006, 12:20 AM
Ya know what?
I'd love..I mean *LOVE*..to post some kind of anti-Sheed message here...but I can't get past the fact that he says what every player thinks and every fan wants to hear!

Rather than hear JO say the cookie-cutter "Well, the Nets are a great team and they're going to come out and play hard in game 3. We're just going to try to play our game and match their intensity, and hopefully we'll come out with a double-u," wouldn't you rather hear him say, "No, I don't care which way you slice it, we *will* beat them. I have control of my own destiny and I am going to *will* this team to victory because I believe in myself and my teammates and I have supreme confidence that we are going to beat them!"

I know it's politically incorrect for a player to talk like they're Bob Knight, but as much as I dislike Sheed, I commend him for being a real person!

...and another thing! Does anyone really care that the dude does drugs? C'mon.

Yeah, it's nice to hear that a player has confidence in themselves and their team. I can't say that I wouldn't tell a reporter, "Yeah, I think we'll win!" But, I can say that I wouldn't tell the next reporter that "the sun shines on a dog's @$$ sometimes, too." There's a difference between confidence and cockiness. Sheed is cocky, whereas say, a guy like Tim Duncan who said, "we'll see who's glaring at the end," is confident.

...and another thing! There are some people who actually care if their (and their kids') role models are on drugs or not. C'mon.

DisplacedKnick
05-22-2006, 07:01 AM
Without wanting to come off holier-than-thou, the opinion of tolerating classlessness is everyone's right, but is still not the right way.

I would say that it doesn't matter to me that classlessness is tolerated, condoned, and even celebrated, but it DOES matter to me.


I'm gonna do a dangerous thing which is make an assumption but I take it that you never cared much for Reggie Miller then?

heywoode
05-22-2006, 08:30 AM
I'm gonna do a dangerous thing which is make an assumption but I take it that you never cared much for Reggie Miller then?

I was waiting on someone to make this statement.

Rasheed and Reggie are so far apart on the class scale that it almost isn't worth responding to the question. However, the answer would be that Reggie never said or did ANYTHING close to what Rasheed is capable of. Rasheed has done and said things that put him in a class (or lack thereof) by himself and that is where he shall stay.

BoomBaby31
05-22-2006, 06:48 PM
I hate Rasheed, I hate Gary payton. I rather see Gary Payton get to the Championship again and LOSE AGAIN. It is going to make my NBA season complete. Rasheed can fall off a truck if I care. He is on my hated list

DisplacedKnick
05-22-2006, 07:00 PM
I was waiting on someone to make this statement.

Rasheed and Reggie are so far apart on the class scale that it almost isn't worth responding to the question. However, the answer would be that Reggie never said or did ANYTHING close to what Rasheed is capable of. Rasheed has done and said things that put him in a class (or lack thereof) by himself and that is where he shall stay.

What's Rasheed Wallace have to do with anything? I asked you regarding Reggie Miller from when he behaved like a punk. Did you consider Reggie's trash talking and taunting to be classy?

Since you seem to have forgotten, here's the part of your post I quoted:

Without wanting to come off holier-than-thou, the opinion of tolerating classlessness is everyone's right, but is still not the right way.

I would say that it doesn't matter to me that classlessness is tolerated, condoned, and even celebrated, but it DOES matter to me.

The words "Rasheed" and "Wallace" - or either one individually - are not to be found.

heywoode
05-22-2006, 09:35 PM
What's Rasheed Wallace have to do with anything? I asked you regarding Reggie Miller from when he behaved like a punk. Did you consider Reggie's trash talking and taunting to be classy?

Since you seem to have forgotten, here's the part of your post I quoted:

Without wanting to come off holier-than-thou, the opinion of tolerating classlessness is everyone's right, but is still not the right way.

I would say that it doesn't matter to me that classlessness is tolerated, condoned, and even celebrated, but it DOES matter to me.

The words "Rasheed" and "Wallace" - or either one individually - are not to be found.

Rasheed Wallace is in the title of this thread I started, and the person the thread is about...

With regards to Reggie, I must've forgotten all those times when Reggie got arrested, and when he led the league in technicals, or when he stalked a referree after a game (finding more discipline for that, too), or when he acted a fool in an interview or ten, or now darn near every one...

Reggie could trash talk with the best of them, but he could leave it on the court and be a professional off it. He wasn't perfect, as no one else is, but at least he didn't rewrite the record books for chronic discipline...until Ron came along.

DisplacedKnick
05-22-2006, 11:47 PM
Reggie could trash talk with the best of them, but he could leave it on the court and be a professional off it. He wasn't perfect, as no one else is, but at least he didn't rewrite the record books for chronic discipline...until Ron came along.

So you think taunting players and fans, talking down other players and teams in the postgame and in the press, making the choke sign during games, bowing to an opposing crowd when he hit a shot, etc., is classy?

Or are you saying that classy is defined by what a player is disciplined for rather than how he behaves?

You're the one who spent several posts pontificating about how important being classy was to you - I just find it interesting how pathetically weak your definition of class is.

Kstat
05-22-2006, 11:52 PM
So you think taunting players and fans, talking down other players and teams in the postgame and in the press, making the choke sign during games, bowing to an opposing crowd when he hit a shot, etc., is classy?

Or are you saying that classy is defined by what a player is disciplined for rather than how he behaves?

You're the one who spent several posts pontificating about how important being classy was to you - I just find it interesting how pathetically weak your definition of class is.

http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2006/04/12/imageNY12504120636.jpg

Hicks
05-23-2006, 12:01 AM
You can bash Reggie for his faults all day (and he'd deserve it). To compare him to Rasheed Wallace is laughable.

Kstat
05-23-2006, 12:04 AM
I think his point is when it comes to someone you dont root for, all of a sudden everyone becomes a champion of morality....

DisplacedKnick
05-23-2006, 06:40 AM
You can bash Reggie for his faults all day (and he'd deserve it). To compare him to Rasheed Wallace is laughable.

There you go Heywoode. You should be looking at people based on their own merits.

RWB
05-23-2006, 07:37 AM
So you think taunting players and fans, talking down other players and teams in the postgame and in the press, making the choke sign during games, bowing to an opposing crowd when he hit a shot, etc., is classy?


Some of the things Reg would pull had many of us embarrassed. Actually Mark Jackson's shimmy probably raised more ire from most, but of course that's something he learned from New Yawk. ;)

DisplacedKnick
05-23-2006, 08:11 AM
Some of the things Reg would pull had many of us embarrassed. Actually Mark Jackson's shimmy probably raised more ire from most, but of course that's something he learned from New Yawk. ;)

Not sure that's where he picked it up - I think God told him to do it after he left the Knicks. Starks was always an idiot but the only reason he was the player he amounted to was because of the chip he carried. Still used to get on my nerves - even worse when he'd shoot 3 for 18 in game 7 of the finals ...

Reggie cooled it his last 6-8 years - still would talk trash in the locker room but put away the taunting and the neg comments in the press. I'm sure he did that to get inside people's heads but I don't think it worked out too well. He also said part of it was to psych himself up - he wanted to be the enemy on the road.

heywoode
05-23-2006, 08:21 AM
So you think taunting players and fans, talking down other players and teams in the postgame and in the press, making the choke sign during games, bowing to an opposing crowd when he hit a shot, etc., is classy?

Or are you saying that classy is defined by what a player is disciplined for rather than how he behaves?

You're the one who spent several posts pontificating about how important being classy was to you - I just find it interesting how pathetically weak your definition of class is.

If you can't see the difference between Rasheed Wallace and 95% of the rest of humanity, then you are the one with the problem, not me. Pick apart everything I've ever posted and find fault in it if you must, but the fact remains that the majority of people who know of Rasheed Wallace know he's an a$$hole. If you didn't already know of him, it would take about ten minutes of listening to him speak on any given subject, or ten minutes of watching him play basketball to figure that fact out.

I suppose I should know better than to express my own opinion if I'm not prepared to defend it to all comers against every other person on the planet. The fact that everyone has shown classlessness at one time or another doesn't excuse someone who does it with regularity and almost constantly.


I think his point is when it comes to someone you dont root for, all of a sudden everyone becomes a champion of morality....

Yeah, I guess unless you've rooted for no one other than Jesus Christ can you dislike someone and offer negative commentary regarding that person....


There you go Heywoode. You should be looking at people based on their own merits.

I wasn't talking about anyone other than Rasheed Wallace. Everyone else seems bent on showing me other examples of people being less than classy to defend him. If anyone needs to heed that statement, it is YOU.
Funny, you were alot less confrontational when I was sitting next to you at the forum party....

My LAST opinion on this subject is that I feel that Rasheed Wallace is an A$$HOLE. I've got plenty of evidence that leads to me to believe that fact is true. Nothing anyone else, regardless of whether I have rooted for them or not, has done changes that fact. Doesn't matter that Jordan talked trash and played dirty and got the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't matter that Reggie did what he did to the NY fans and players (who are all wonderful examples of class in their own right). Doesn't matter about Bill Laimbeer, or Larry Bird, or anyone else. I'm not talking about them.

Rasheed Wallace is an A$$HOLE.

See, that sentence stands by itself, on it's own merits, just fine.

This is my last word, so everyone else who wants to pick apart my opinion, go right ahead and get your last word in. I'm sure I will read it, but at least you will know up front that I won't respond to it.

RWB
05-23-2006, 08:23 AM
Reggie cooled it his last 6-8 years - still would talk trash in the locker room but put away the taunting and the neg comments in the press.

You know DK that was also around the time he started getting some death threats and then his house get's torched (well maybe Reg had a good clue on that one) but still it could have been a little eye opening.

Since86
05-23-2006, 10:25 AM
His house being torched had nothing to do with basketball. That was a family affair.

Kstat
05-23-2006, 12:40 PM
If you can't see the difference between Rasheed Wallace and 95% of the rest of humanity, then you are the one with the problem, not me. Pick apart everything I've ever posted and find fault in it if you must, but the fact remains that the majority of people who know of Rasheed Wallace know he's an a$$hole.

Rasheed Wallace has a rule he likes to live by, and he says it a lot.

As long as his wife and children know what kind of a person he is, he doesnt care how the rest of the world percieves him. His family and lose personal friends are the only opinions he cares about.

You zealous types should understand that....


If you didn't already know of him, it would take about ten minutes of listening to him speak on any given subject, or ten minutes of watching him play basketball to figure that fact out.

So tell me, how long have you talked to Rasheed Wallace? How many topics have you listened to him speak on outside of basketball? I'm just wondering how you know him so well.

Again, because he plays an a$$hole on TV does not define who he is as a person. I think it's the epitome of arrogance to make personal judgements like that about someone you don't know at all. If the only way anybody knew me was on the basketball courts, they would think I was a completely different person too.

I'm sure you were calling Kirby Puckett a moral champion and great role model 15 years ago, because the guy you saw on TV was a great guy....

If we're going to talk about Sheed's behavior as a basketball player, that's fine. But if we're going to define him as a human being? That's something none of us have any buisness judging him on. We have to remind ourselves that we are talking about people WE DONT KNOW.

Kstat
05-23-2006, 12:53 PM
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060328/SPORTS0102/603280352/1127

Pistons Rap

Jekyll & Hyde

Rasheed anything but nasty off court

Joanne C. Gerstner / The Detroit News


Rasheed Wallace doesn't care what you think.

On the court he's intense, focused and ready to scrap and argue about anything he thinks isn't going his or the Pistons' way. Fans in other cities see Wallace as a whiner, a technical foul magnet, a bad boy who came home to roost.

But there is another side to Wallace few see. Off the court he's easygoing, friendly, family oriented, funny, sensitive and generous.

"On the court, it's not my job to be nice," Wallace said. "People might see how intense I am and think I'm a bad, bad man. But off the court, I'm just a laid-back, everyday person. I just have never had a need to let people see that. I don't need to go around and make a big deal showing people that I'm not what they think I am.

"I'm at work (during games). People get mad at their co-workers or their boss or whatever. And people mostly see me at work, because it's on TV. But that doesn't mean that's only who I am."

Those closest to Wallace -- his wife Fatima and mother Jackie -- want him to come out of his shell a bit off the court. They see the real Rasheed every day and would love for the world to see him the way they do.

"It makes me mad when people assume that he's an angry or mean person," Fatima said. "That makes them look really, really stupid. It gets to him sometimes. There is so much hate in people. And jealousy.

"When people are hating on you, no matter what you do it's going to come at you, and that's the way the world goes. Because of that, I think Rasheed shuts down. He thinks, 'You can think what you want to think. The people who love me know me and that's all I need. I don't need any more. I'm not trying to make friends. I've got my family, I've got the ones who really care about me.' "

Changing roles

It's no secret Wallace, before coming to Detroit in a multiteam trade Feb. 19, 2004, carried a certain reputation.

Nobody disputed his talent: a rare mix of size, long-range shooting touch, defense and, when he wants, an inside game.

But uttering the name Rasheed Wallaceconjured up other images to NBA fans: a player who got in trouble for arguing with referees, hundreds of technical fouls, somebody who seemed angry all the time.

His former team, the Trail Blazers, was known as the "Jailblazers" for the degree of trouble the players encountered.

Fatima recalls those days with some anger and sadness, seeing a different side to the events that created her husband's reputation.

"In the West, it's different, the people are really different," said Fatima, who has been married to Wallace since 1998. "They don't want you to be you. It's like they told him, you're getting paid, you're an entertainer, so here's your role. That's the way they did him. They wanted him to be bad, so he was bad. They didn't want Rasheed Wallace to be nice."

Jackie Wallace understands her son. It's not only a mother-son thing, but a bit deeper. Jackie and Rasheed share personality traits, from stubborn determination to frank outspokenness.

She's also still stinging from the seven seasons in Portland.

"It was horrible, just horrible, and oh how I would love to say more," Jackie said, shaking her fists to show her frustration.

Fresh start

Coming to Detroit has been a fresh start for Wallace and his family. The slate was wiped clean. And a few months later, the Pistons won the NBA title and Wallace was positively woven into the city's sports history.

No longer was Wallace viewed simply as an obnoxious talent. Now he was a world champion.

"Everything has changed for us being in Detroit; the people here have opened their hearts," Fatima said. "It's been such a blessing for all of us because of how people are here. They're kind, they see Rasheed for who he his and they gave him a chance to be himself."

Fatima always has seen the potential in her husband, on and off the court. She's a pretty savvy judge of basketball, knowing full well what Wallace is capable of on the floor. And she's also a smart woman in terms of haircuts, encouraging Wallace to get a flattering close-crop last month.

Yes, hoops and haircuts do have a connection.

"I tell him I am not saying this because you are my husband. 'There are many good players in the NBA, but you are one of the best,' " Fatima said. " 'You are very, very gifted. Don't ever throw away your gift. You have got to make the most of what you have. Don't ever settle for less. Reach for it. Because you don't ever want to say I could have done this or that. Do it. You can't go back. Whatever it is you want to do, reach for it right now.'

" 'How many people can actually say they were the best, a champion? Not too many people, and you are one of them.' "

Fatima uses other methods to encourage Rasheed.

"I make him sign a contract, I write it before games, 'Rasheed has to score 20 or more points,' " Fatima said. "If not, there will be no dinner. (She laughs.)

"He needs a challenge to get that fire in his eyes. If he doesn't have that spark if he's not burning hot, it's too easy for him."

True colors

Wallace is laid-back at home, frequently playing video games with or without his four kids. Fatima likes to joke about having five children to raise, given Wallace's love for being goofy and loud.

Nazir, 8, thinks he's already a better basketball player than dad. Rashida, 2, the couple's only daughter, gets her daddy to sit down for tea parties. Fatima loves watching Wallace trying to delicately hold the tiny teacup by the handle with his big fingers.

Jackie and Fatima see the soft spot Rasheed has for kids as a way to get him to open up more.

The Rasheed Wallace Foundation has been funding basketball camps and literacy centers, and running coat drives and other events to help kids and families. Wallace's foundation has run these projects in Portland, his native Philadelphia, and Detroit.

He spent $16,000 on Sheed's Squad tickets for Pistons tickets in 2004, according to his foundation's tax return. He gave the tickets away to kids and families.

Wallace has been involved with Detroit Kettering High the past two years, challenging freshmen and sophomores to get good grades, read books and have strong citizenship. He recently helped renovate Kettering's library with new computers, books and furniture.

Kettering principal Willie Howard learned Wallace is different from what she frequently sees on TV. She wasn't sure what to expect when his foundation called to get involved in the school, but she took a chance on the relationship.

"Some people who are stars are very arrogant; they aren't real," Howard said. "Some stars just write a check, never come, but say they were involved. Rasheed is real to these kids. They can see and touch him."

"Last year, we went out to GameWorks and it was during the playoffs. He was so tired You could tell. But he still came out there to see the kids, took that commitment very seriously."

Public eye

Last week Wallace walked around the Kettering library with a big smile, delighting in the surprised reaction from the students.

"It's definitely a pleasure seeing all of this and hopefully the kids will get great use out of it," Wallace said. "It's more memorable to do things like this than winning basketball games, even though that's my job.

"We really do it from the heart -- my wife, my mother, my brothers, we do it from the heart."

Jackie and Fatima also enjoyed the moment at Kettering, but for different reasons. They loved seeing Wallace laugh, joke and be happy, in public, for the whole world to see.

"Look at him," Fatima said, gazing across the room. "He's smiled more in the last 10 minutes than he does in a whole game. And look at all the people around him. They're getting to talk to the real Rasheed."

Since86
05-23-2006, 01:17 PM
Huh. I'm going to have to take a trip to Auburn Hills. It must be the first arena that has a court that extends into it's locker room. It must be a really something to behold.

Then again it extends into Quicken Loans Arena's visitor lockerroom as well, so who knows just how big it really is.

JayRedd
05-23-2006, 02:22 PM
Both Teams Played Hard