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owl
05-15-2006, 08:05 PM
It is being reported in Hoopsworld rumour section that the Pacers are interested in trading Jax or Tins and an expiring for Francis.
Would you do this? I suspect the expiring would be Bender or Croshere.

owl

Jermaniac
05-15-2006, 08:07 PM
I would do it, if Carlisle could get him to pass. He still got talent.

Jermaniac
05-15-2006, 08:10 PM
KEEPING PACE: The Indiana Pacers will be making some changes this summer. According to Pacer sources they are active in exploring a new point guard and as odd as it seems may be targeting Steve Francis from the Knicks. The Pacers are not offering a lot of core pieces in trade; the best a trading partner could hope for is Stephen Jackson and/or Jamal Tinsley. Peja Stojakovic is staying according to people close to him, assuming the dollars are in his new contract. Don’t be surprised to see Larry Bird and company take a risk (a la Steve Francis) in order to jump start the Pacers, and also don’t be surprised if Bonzi Wells jumps ship from Sacramento in favor of playing with good friend Jermaine O’Neal. At the trade deadline O’Neal lobbied publicly for Bonzi to head to Indiana. Apparently both have talked about Bonzi joining him many times and this summer may see it happen, especially with the Kings making the decision between staying with Bonzi or going with Kevin Martin. There is the part about the Pacers

PG-Francis
SG-Bonzi
SF-Peja
PF-JO
C-David

I like it

Tins and Cro or Bender for Francis?
Jack in a sign and trade for Bonzi?

Jay Ohh
05-15-2006, 08:11 PM
Sweet Jesus no. Francis lost all of his confidence, he's a lockerroom cancer, and he's got a big contract. We should probably stay away from these types of guys. We've had too many in the past. And yeah, it's gone horribly wrong.

If we're going to get somebody who could be a problem, let's at least get somebody who's still good.

Fireball Kid
05-15-2006, 08:12 PM
If Steve Francis gets traded to this team, I'm not watching the Pacers ever again.

Young
05-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Would I want Steve Francis as a Pacer? Is grass blue and the sky green? Hell no!

Steve Francis as a Pacer? To selfish to play the 1, and not that great on defense. I just can't get over how selfish that guy is. I want nothing to do with him in a Pacers uniform.

Just what we need...someone who dominates the ball.

It's from Hoopsworld though and I don't think they are to reliable, are they?

Stryder
05-15-2006, 08:17 PM
There is the part about the Pacers

PG-Francis
SG-Bonzi
SF-Peja
PF-JO
C-David

I like it

Tins and Cro or Bender for Francis?
Jack in a sign and trade for Bonzi?

Better find a good backup 5, because Harrison is fouling out in 10 minutes.
I'm scared of the chemistry issues of the starting five that you have listed...Francis, Bonzi, and JO? I smell trouble brewing, and it's stanky.

Big Smooth
05-15-2006, 08:17 PM
Hmmm. I'd have to think about it. If he can leave his baggage behind and just play ball, possibly.

Young
05-15-2006, 08:19 PM
Hmmm. I'd have to think about it. If he can leave his baggage behind and just play ball, possibly.

Lol. Leave the baggabe? Sorry but I can't help but laugh, I can't help but laugh at the thought that Steve Francis would leave his baggage and just play ball.

I don't think that Steve is a bad guy, he is just selfish. Of course we could have a lot worse things happen then getting Steve Francis...I still don't want him though,

Jermaniac
05-15-2006, 08:22 PM
Better find a good backup 5, because Harrison is fouling out in 10 minutes.
I'm scared of the chemistry issues of the starting five that you have listed...Francis, Bonzi, and JO? I smell trouble brewing, and it's stanky.
Jeff would be the back up 5.

I doubt there would be chemistry problems JO and Bonzi are like best friends.

And Rommie, Hoopsworld is not reliable at all, they never get anything right.

owl
05-15-2006, 08:24 PM
Francis and Wells would be an unmitigated disaster. I would hope we have
been down this path enough. Honestly if we were talking just Francis I would have to thing long and hard and have a long discussion with Francis.
I have not seen him play enough to say if it is even worth it based on talent.
Probably not.

owl

Shade
05-15-2006, 08:24 PM
I'd be okay with it if we sent out the right players for him.

How many years are left on Francis's contract?

Francis and Bonzi are both fairly quick guards, so I could see this being true.

Though I'm not a fan of either player, Francis/Wells >>> Tins/Jack.

Are there enough balls on this team for Francis/Bonzi/Peja/JO?

able
05-15-2006, 08:38 PM
You can forget franchise, way to expensive for DW to sign off on :
$15,070,000

$16,440,000

$17,180,000

that's the next 3 years, no way we do that.

Bonzi however is a real chance, but he would be a straight up for Jax, something I can see happening, certainly because you can discount a lot of the baggage he's carrying since he's a friend of JO, so he's likely to leave the crap out, also he has only 1 year left on his contract, so it's a cheap risk.

And let's be honest, at worst he's as bad as Jax and we loose a couple of years of "risk" (Bonzi makes 8 mio next year, Jax 6.2)

Frank Slade
05-15-2006, 08:39 PM
How many years are left on Francis's contract?




Steve Francis

13,700,000 2005-2006
15,070,000 2006-07
16,440,000 2007-08
17,810,000 2008-2009

Jermaniac
05-15-2006, 08:39 PM
You can forget franchise, way to expensive for DW to sign off on :
$15,070,000

$16,440,000

$17,180,000

that's the next 3 years, no way we do that.

Bonzi however is a real chance, but he would be a straight up for Jax, something I can see happening, certainly because you can discount a lot of the baggage he's carrying since he's a friend of JO, so he's likely to leave the crap out, also he has only 1 year left on his contract, so it's a cheap risk.

And let's be honest, at worst he's as bad as Jax and we loose a couple of years of "risk" (Bonzi makes 8 mio next year, Jax 6.2)Bonzi is a FA this year so it would have to be a sign and trade

Shade
05-15-2006, 08:40 PM
[quote][quote=Shade]I'd be okay with it if we sent out the right players for him.

How many years are left on Francis's contract?




Steve Francis
13,700,000 2005-2006
15,070,000 2006-07
16,440,000 2007-08
17,810,000 2008-2009

Ouch, I changed my mind. Pass. If we're going to do that, we may as well go after Iverson. :uhoh2:

Shade
05-15-2006, 08:41 PM
Bonzi is a FA this year so it would have to be a sign and trade

Can the resident Kings fans tell us what the Pacers would realistically be expected to give for Bonzi? JO and Granger, of course, are off limits. ;)

Moses
05-15-2006, 08:43 PM
Can't beleive theres a thread on Francis. The guy is just bad. That's all that needs to be said. He's a ball hog, he's overpaid, and he's got some attitude problems.

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-15-2006, 08:54 PM
Way overpaid, egotistical freak show. If he became a Pacer - I might never be a Pacer fan again. Very few players would make me feel this way, and Francis ranks right up near the top. Punk A$$.

able
05-15-2006, 08:54 PM
Jermaniac, you're right, sorry looked in the wrong column :D

so that makes it even easier, if he wants to play here, S&T Jax is not that far fetched. It would give Sac reasonable return as opposed to nothing if he signs here for hte ml (not much chance on that btw i think)

Young
05-15-2006, 09:03 PM
Would the Kings want Stephen Jackson though? They would probably be better off letting Kevin Martin and Fransico Garcia battle it out for the starting job.

Would the Pacers want Bonzi? I think Bird turned him down before, didn't he? I'm not really a big fan of Bonzi's game I guess.

Jermaniac
05-15-2006, 09:05 PM
He turned him down because he thought Bonzi was not enough for Ron.

I really like his game though, tough defender, has an offensive game, and most important of all the guy can rebound his *** off, we need that type of player.

Shade
05-15-2006, 09:19 PM
Would the Kings want Stephen Jackson though? They would probably be better off letting Kevin Martin and Fransico Garcia battle it out for the starting job.

Would the Pacers want Bonzi? I think Bird turned him down before, didn't he? I'm not really a big fan of Bonzi's game I guess.

I don't think they would want Jack. Maybe Tins?

Young
05-15-2006, 09:22 PM
I don't think they would want Jack. Maybe Tins?

I would be suprised if they want Tinsley though. They already have Bibby, unless they trade him.

Evan_The_Dude
05-15-2006, 09:31 PM
I'll take Bonzi in a heartbeat. He's won me over. As for Francis, he's one of those I'll say hell no to now, but if it happens I'll be kissing his *** when he helps us win some games. So, no I don't want him here, but I'll support him if he comes here. I'd rather go after Iverson to be honest.

wooolus
05-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Shade
I'd be okay with it if we sent out the right players for him.

How many years are left on Francis's contract?




Steve Francis
13,700,000 2005-2006
15,070,000 2006-07
16,440,000 2007-08
17,810,000 2008-2009



Ouch, I changed my mind. Pass. If we're going to do that, we may as well go after Iverson.
That would be nitemare and nite-terror comes true...

pizza guy
05-15-2006, 10:38 PM
This should be posted around Conseco, and all of Indy for that matter.

336

college31guy
05-15-2006, 10:39 PM
I don't know Bonzi's game very well besides he is a good defender and rebounder. My questions are about his offensive game. Can he slash? Can he shoot the three? Can he create his own shot?

beast23
05-15-2006, 10:45 PM
Francis is way too much money. If we are looking at that much money for a PG, then we may as well just find a way to overpay the Raptors for a sign-and-trade of Mike James. He'd be a much better PG for us than Francis.

Bonzi makes $8M this season... so he'd probably be looking to start at about $10M, especially after his playoff performance. So, in addition to all of Bonzie's baggage, he's also going to be too much money.

pizza guy
05-15-2006, 10:48 PM
I think I'd much rather have Bonzi. He's tough guard who can get to the hoop and shoot and defend. I'm not 100% sure about his quickness though, could some one help us out there? I also like the fact that he and JO are friends. The last thing we need is conflicting personalities, and one of our biggest needs is good chemistry. If Bonzi and JO get along, that helps in that regard. I was watching the Det/Cle game tonight and thinking, "everyone on those two teams is friends with their teammates," because you can just tell that they are. The same goes for the Pistons and Spurs. Putting JO and Bonzi together sounds good to me, especially if we can trade SJax for Wells in a S&T.

wooolus
05-15-2006, 10:48 PM
Bonzi is a good slasher, decent shooter and extand his range to beyond the arc. And Indiana product.

Hicks
05-15-2006, 10:49 PM
I like Bonzi's game, but I hate his attitude. With that said, at least if he did come here since he's friends with JO the risk of him being a disruption would theoretically be minimized. And talent-wise, we could use a SG of his calibure. Getting him for Jack would be a lateral move at worst attitude-wise (I hope), so maybe it's worth the risk. Playing with fire though.

Roy Munson
05-15-2006, 10:49 PM
What team ever got better after acquiring Steve Francis? Even U. Maryland got better after he left.

Unclebuck
05-15-2006, 10:50 PM
Couple of points:

Trade rumors in the middle of may are really worthlesss. Nothing can be done for 6 weeks until draft time anyway, so don't believe this.

But we all have to realize we aren't going to get much for Jax or Tinsley - on a talent basis Francis would be a nice addition.

OK enough of being sensible

A lineup of:

Francis
Bonzi
Peja
JO
Harrison

Would be an unmitigated disaster. Did you watch the Knicks this past season. If you did the Pacers next season with that lineup would look like the Knicks last season.

A lineup of DH, JO, Peja, Bonzi, Francis looks good on "paper" but it would crash and burn before November 10th. What ever happened to putting a team together that fits - this isn't a stupid fantasy team. To suggest a lineup like that might work shows very little understanding of NBA basketball. You don't just put 5 good offensive players like that together - it won't work I guarantee it. Horrible, horrible. Isiah Thomas might approve though. I can't imagine DW would ever put together a team like that.

Eindar
05-15-2006, 11:33 PM
I think UB is right, it looks good on paper, but every guy in that lineup would want their touches, so I could see major ego problems with that team. This also has a corrollary, being the "1 knucklehead per team" rule, which would be violated by having Bonzi and Francis on the same team. I'd be ok with bringing in Francis to see what he's got in the tank, or bringing in Bonzi to see if he can fill the Ron Artest role, but bringing in both is just asking for trouble.

DisplacedKnick
05-16-2006, 06:54 AM
The only way any team should even think of getting Francis is if you can get Cuttino Mobley too.

I'm in serious emotional overload w/ The Knicks. Read this and I was like, "Bleh."

The lunatics are running the asylum - we're about to engage in a season of ugliness such has never been seen in NBA history.

Kingsfanbmiller
05-16-2006, 07:02 AM
I would hope that Petrie wouldn't take Stephen Jackson in a S&T for Bonzi. I'd rather just let him go for nothing, Martin and Garcia are better for the kings than Jackson would be anyway. Reuniting Ron and Stephen would probably be a disaster. Bonzi has said he wants to retire as a Sacramento king anyway and the Maloofs+Petrie love him. I honestly think and hope he'll be re-signed.

owl
05-16-2006, 07:04 AM
I believe that the Pacers should run as fast as they can from anymore
attitude problems and never look back. Eindars "one knucklehead"
rule is a good one. The Pacers have at least 2 at this time.
How about a 2 for 1 sale.


owl

Will Galen
05-16-2006, 07:32 AM
A lineup of:

Francis
Bonzi
Peja
JO
Harrison

Would be an unmitigated disaster. To suggest a lineup like that might work shows very little understanding of NBA basketball.

AMEN!

Bonzi will resign with the Kings as has been said, plus we wouldn't want him because of his attitude. As for Francis, there's three reasons he won't be coming to Indiana. Money, attitude, and Thomas/Bird.

RWB
05-16-2006, 07:47 AM
Anything is possible, I do wonder though if Sac would be more willing to say goodbye to Bonzi if they were to unload BMiller in the deal as well?

Since86
05-16-2006, 10:11 AM
Bonzi however is a real chance, but he would be a straight up for Jax, something I can see happening, certainly because you can discount a lot of the baggage he's carrying since he's a friend of JO, so he's likely to leave the crap out,

No, no, and NO!

You'd have to multiply his baggage since he'd be an hour away from his hometown.

When he was drafted by Detroit, people here (where he's from) was saying that was too close. JO and him may have been fine together in Portland, or some other city away from Muncie, but Bonzi would have a lot of troubles in Indiana.

sixthman
05-16-2006, 10:20 AM
Isn't it obvious the Pacers aren't going anywhere without a point guard with quicks who can break down defenses and challenge defensively the point guard studs of the other? Practically every good team has one.

Without one, we have no chance to compete in the NBA at a championship level. Maybe Stevie would work out, maybe he wouldn't. I'm using the Rasheed model in my rationalization for considering Steve: Wallace was a bold move for Detroit, maybe, Francis can work out for us. He has something to prove; he's handled his recent adversity pretty well; the price will probably be right; and we need a point guard with game badly.

If Walsh and Bird can find a way to take on the salary of Francis for the next three years, I'm all for them rolling the dice on this one.

jcouts
05-16-2006, 03:52 PM
Isn't it obvious the Pacers aren't going anywhere without a point guard with quicks who can break down defenses and challenge defensively the point guard studs of the other? Practically every good team has one.

Without one, we have no chance to compete in the NBA at a championship level. Maybe Stevie would work out, maybe he wouldn't. I'm using the Rasheed model in my rationalization for considering Steve: Wallace was a bold move for Detroit, maybe, Francis can work out for us. He has something to prove; he's handled his recent adversity pretty well; the price will probably be right; and we need a point guard with game badly.

If Walsh and Bird can find a way to take on the salary of Francis for the next three years, I'm all for them rolling the dice on this one.

I agree. It is the return age of Kevin Johnson-style guards. Without pentration into the defense, teams have little going for them nowadays.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure Franchise is the one we need.

Kingsfanbmiller
05-16-2006, 04:33 PM
Anything is possible, I do wonder though if Sac would be more willing to say goodbye to Bonzi if they were to unload BMiller in the deal as well?


Nah. The kings will probably listen to offers for Brad but he's still a positive on the court. One bad playoff series does not make him a bad player. After Adelman was fired he said the reason Brad sucks on D is because he doesn't spend time in the summer getting stronger etc. With the world championships coming up that will change. We're not in a hurry to get rid of 2 of Ron's friends anyway...

The Pacers should go after Jason Terry IMO.

If you go after Francis please find a way to get Mobley too. That would be awesome.

Isaac
05-16-2006, 05:16 PM
The Pacers should go after Jason Terry IMO.

I think Cuban will pay him, I see him back in Dallas.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-17-2006, 11:44 AM
oh hell no...last thing you want is francis. He clashed so hard with dwight howard it was amazing. Him and JO WILL NOT get along....you are asking for trouble. Least tins runs the offense when he plays

Jermaniac
05-17-2006, 11:52 AM
Couple of points:

Trade rumors in the middle of may are really worthlesss. Nothing can be done for 6 weeks until draft time anyway, so don't believe this.

But we all have to realize we aren't going to get much for Jax or Tinsley - on a talent basis Francis would be a nice addition.

OK enough of being sensible

A lineup of:

Francis
Bonzi
Peja
JO
Harrison

Would be an unmitigated disaster. Did you watch the Knicks this past season. If you did the Pacers next season with that lineup would look like the Knicks last season.

A lineup of DH, JO, Peja, Bonzi, Francis looks good on "paper" but it would crash and burn before November 10th. What ever happened to putting a team together that fits - this isn't a stupid fantasy team. To suggest a lineup like that might work shows very little understanding of NBA basketball. You don't just put 5 good offensive players like that together - it won't work I guarantee it. Horrible, horrible. Isiah Thomas might approve though. I can't imagine DW would ever put together a team like that.

Suggesting that Sarunas Jasikavicus needs to be given the team and made the leader of the Indiana Pacers team after 5-6 games of his first year in the NBA shows understanding of the NBA game?

Trading for Ron Artest for Jerome James because the Pacers need a player like Jerome James? The Pacers need a lazy center who has no work ethic and picks up fouls every time his man gets the ball?

Great understanding of the NBA game.

Jasikavicus-AJ-Jack-Foster-James = Great understanding of the NBA game.

purdue101
05-17-2006, 11:58 AM
i'd be on board if we used jax and AJ to S&T for bonzi. i want no part of steve francis though......he's a cancer and never made any team he's played for better.

Pacersfan46
05-18-2006, 12:11 AM
I think Cuban will pay him, I see him back in Dallas.

The way Devin Harris is playing, something's got to give.

CableKC
05-18-2006, 02:45 AM
Am I the only one that is concerned about Bonzi has a history in Portland and Memphis?

The guy essentially played his way out of Portland....and then pissed off Fratello enough to bench him for their playoff run last year.

He definitely has some skills....but I would prefer to move towards getting players that won't cause drama.

rexnom
05-18-2006, 03:00 AM
The way Devin Harris is playing, something's got to give.
How about both starting? Seems to work out OK so far...

Eindar
05-18-2006, 07:06 AM
I'd be more than happy to make a play for the odd man out of Dallas' rotation as they come off of those rookie contracts. Howard, Devin Harris, Jason Terry, Marquis Daniels. Obviously, Cuban has the balls to pay them all, but will they be willing to roll the dice over who gets 10-15 mpg and who starts?

Unclebuck
05-18-2006, 11:37 AM
Suggesting that Sarunas Jasikavicus needs to be given the team and made the leader of the Indiana Pacers team after 5-6 games of his first year in the NBA shows understanding of the NBA game?

Trading for Ron Artest for Jerome James because the Pacers need a player like Jerome James? The Pacers need a lazy center who has no work ethic and picks up fouls every time his man gets the ball?

Great understanding of the NBA game.

Jasikavicus-AJ-Jack-Foster-James = Great understanding of the NBA game.


You talking to me?

owl
05-18-2006, 11:38 AM
test

CableKC
05-18-2006, 02:48 PM
I posted this on RealGM and wanted to see what your thoughts are. If you do a comparison of Marbury and Francis over the last 3 seasons...statistically:

Marbury ( since the 2003-2004 season til the present )
223 games averaging about 39.1 mpg

FG% - .447
3pt% - .334
FT% - .808

3.08 RPG
7.93 APG
1.4 SPG
2.87 ToPG
19.72 PPG

Francis ( since the 2003-2004 season til the present )
227 games averaging about 37.73 mpg

FG% - .419
3pt% - .296
FT% - .799

5.17 RPG
6.10 APG
1.43 SPG
3.63 ToPG
17.52 PPG

Ignoring personality issues........and looking at it from a purely statistical point of view.....Francis is only a better Rebounder then Marbury is. In terms of scoring....Marbury is a better overall shooter....but both are pretty much equal when it comes to putting up the points.....Marbury is just more consistent at it then Francis is.

The only thing that sticks out is that Francis is way too turnover prone...which is a very bad thing considering that he is the primary ball handler on the team. Francis was 11th in ToPG this last season...but has historically ranked in the top 4 players in turnovers over the last 4 seasons.

That is bad....real bad.

I guess the question is....would you want a PG that can rebound but isn't as consistent and turns the ball over ALOT....or a PG that is more expensive and has been known to be a cancer on the team?

My answer....neither...I would live with a PG rotation of AJ/Sarunas before taking on either of them...at least for one season to see how things go. But if I were forced to choose one....I would pick Marbury...as long as we fired Carlisle and hired some other coach....maybe Adelman ( which I wouldn't be really happy with either ).

Jermaniac
05-18-2006, 06:29 PM
You talking to me?Yep

Fireball Kid
05-18-2006, 06:35 PM
:lurk:

Jermaniac
05-18-2006, 07:22 PM
It was very clear that his comment about not knowing anything about the NBA was directed at me.