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View Full Version : Suns looking to trade Up in Draft, may trade Marion (Updated)



Frank Slade
05-15-2006, 11:07 AM
Sam Smith
Perfect Rx: Proposing Bulls deals
Try for Garnett; if that fails, there are still Plans B and C

May 15, 2006


Yes, here we go again: Kevin Garnett.
I believe the Timberwolves will not trade him. I believe they'll trade for someone like Stephon Marbury to dress up the roster for the season ticket-holders and make it appear there's a chance...

He probably only has a few good seasons left. He's a much bigger risk now. But if the Bulls don't have to break up their team to get him, Garnett would be worth the risk. He is the hard-working, unselfish type of player they covet and could help them make a major move next season.

Here's the situation. It's nice to have all these talented kids from the draft, but it never works because you can't pay them all. Tyson Chandler's contract averages $10 million per year, Kirk Hinrich comes up for an extension this summer and Ben Gordon, Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni due next summer. With Chandler making $10 million, who will ask for less? You add to that draft picks and free agents from this summer and it's a payroll the Bulls could not afford as they'd owe a luxury tax that could cost them tens of millions of dollars. Only the Knicks operate that way.

So you try to make the Timberwolves an offer that is very appealing and perhaps get someone to get in Garnett's ear and ask him if he wants a chance to end his career playing for a championship in the next few years, which the Bulls could do in the East. It's not about to happen for Garnett in the West. So here's the deal: Chandler, Gordon, the Bulls' two draft picks--hoping they have No. 1 or No. 2--and the right to have the Knicks' 2007 pick unless it's No. 1 overall. (No. 1 likely would mean the chance to pick Greg Oden.) That would give Minnesota three No. 1s this year with two high lottery picks and two young players, one a potential star in Gordon.

Plan B

There's also Shawn Marion. The talk around the NBA is the Suns will be willing to listen very carefully for offers for Marion this summer with Amare Stoudemire and Kurt Thomas due back, Boris Diaw fitting into Marion's role and the possibility of re-signing Tim Thomas.

They probably can't re-sign Tim Thomas, which owner Robert Sarver says is essential, without some changes to avoid paying a luxury tax. Marion will average about $16 million for the next three seasons and isn't the perfect player, especially in a half-court game. But the Bulls' movement offense should give him a chance to flourish and he's a hard worker and relentless defender. The Bulls are said to like LSU's Thomas, who is most likened to Marion. So if the real thing is available, why not take a shot? Marion probably would cost the better of the first-rounders and a player, probably Chandler, who might fit in the Suns' open-style game as Tim Thomas has. But the Bulls still could have money in free agency to get a center like Nazr Mohammed or Joel Przybilla. It's probably worth a look. Why wait when the Bulls can make a serious move into contention next season and not dramatically change their core?

Plan C?

The other big name that comes up often is the Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal. There's no chance they'd trade him in the division, and probably little chance they'd trade him at all. He'll be 28 next season, and there are few stars available anyway. Much around him will change because the Pacers seem to have bottomed out from three years of Artest-related mayhem.
"There was just so much negativity going around, it got contagious," said Stephen Jackson, who probably was the biggest offender. "People were talking about one another. The team wasn't always together. It was an up-and-down rocky year."

Even general manager Larry Bird admitted the players tuned out coach Rick Carlisle, and clearly one another. Figure Jackson to be gone for just about anything as well as point guard Jamaal Tinsley. Anthony Johnson and Sarunas Jasikevicius would take their places. O'Neal gives them a chance to get back into contention, and the Pacers don't need to rebuild in the East because they'll probably bring back Peja Stojakovic and aren't that far away with some attitude adjustment.....

This is just part of a longer article if you care to read it..
Article L I N K (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-060515smith,1,4409603.column?coll=cs-bulls-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true)

Isaac
05-15-2006, 11:11 AM
We should have had Shawn Marion in 99. :(

Anthem
05-15-2006, 01:07 PM
Figure Jackson to be gone for just about anything...
Here's Larry's first true test as a front office guy... getting value in return for Jax and Tinsley.

SoupIsGood
05-15-2006, 03:15 PM
Well, that's nice. I'd love to have the Matrix but I don't think a deal would work out.

Jose Slaughter
05-15-2006, 03:26 PM
Here's Larry's first true test as a front office guy... getting value in return for Jax and Tinsley.

Value!

Anthem, I have all the respect in the world for you but ya know there is no way we will get anthing close to value for these two.

If Bird can kind any new home for them he should be considered for executive of the year. I could careless what we get back as long as they both are long gone by training camp.

rexnom
05-15-2006, 03:27 PM
Well, that's nice. I'd love to have the Matrix but I don't think a deal would work out.

What if we work something out with a pick, Granger and Croshere + filler? That way they get cap relief and someone who plays a lot like Marion. Ooh...I smell trade proposal.

Mushmouth
05-15-2006, 03:27 PM
"The talk around the NBA" = "I (Sam Smith) decided that it makes sense that the Suns..."

rexnom
05-15-2006, 03:29 PM
"The talk around the NBA" = "I (Sam Smith) decided that it makes sense that the Suns..."

:laugh: Probably, it doesn't make sense for them to give up on such a key player so they can re-sign Tim Thomas.

PacerMan
05-15-2006, 03:31 PM
What if we work something out with a pick, Granger and Croshere + filler? That way they get cap relief and someone who plays a lot like Marion. Ooh...I smell trade proposal.

No thanks. Granger is going to be a player, a lot like Marian perhaps. Cro is a serviceable big man that can shoot from outside (sort of). That pic is our 2 guard or PG of the future. IF we were one player away from being contenders NEXT year then maybe. But we aren't.
No deal.

bulletproof
05-15-2006, 03:40 PM
Much around him will change because the Pacers seem to have bottomed out from three years of Artest-related mayhem.

Nooo, that couldn't be. The Pacers have bottomed out because of Carlisle, Jermaine and the fact that TPTB don't have a vision.

317Kim
05-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Shawn Marion is pretty awesome. But, isn't Danny being compared to him? Two of them on one team, I can dig it.

FrenchConnection
05-15-2006, 04:45 PM
That Jumpshot of Marion's to way too ugly to look at for 82 games. I know that they go in, but it is one ugly shot.

317Kim
05-15-2006, 04:49 PM
Is it worse than Tins? I'd rather see an ugly shot go in on a consistent basis than seeing one that goes in once in a while. :laugh:

beast23
05-15-2006, 04:58 PM
So many on here have a problem re-signing Peja because they see him getting in Danny's way.

Yet we have Jermaine at PF and Danny at SF, with Peja potentially being re-signed also getting minutes at SF, and a suggestion is made to acquire Marion?

Marion is a hell of a player. He also makes Jermaine kind of dollars. If we re-sign Peja, that would mean we will have two huge salaries in Jermaine and Marion and two very large salaries in Croshere and Peja.

Our salary structure won't support him. And unless we are willing to make room for him by moving players at one of the forward positions, what he offers is not a major priority for our roster.

Will Galen
05-15-2006, 05:01 PM
Makes a lot of sense! We have an all star small forward in Peja, and a small forward everyone thinks is going to be an all star in Granger so some members of PD of course want to trade for yet another small forward. Typical reasoning.

rexnom
05-15-2006, 05:06 PM
I proposed we trade Croshere's contract and Granger. Another idea could be to trade Peja and Croshere, although I don't think Phoenix will go for that. That solves both of the problems the above two posts pointed out.

I still don't really believe Phoenix would trade Marion, btw. Just for the record.

CableKC
05-15-2006, 05:10 PM
I would trade SJax and Tinsley for a decent 3rd/4th scoring option SG that can start and adequately defend the perimeter alongside a 2nd round draft pick in this year's draft.

As long as they play hard and don't have an attitude problem...then I am cool with whatever we can get.

ChicagoJ
05-15-2006, 05:42 PM
Its Monday - please don't take anything Sam Smith says seriously. This is his weekly "make stuff up" day.

Jay Ohh
05-15-2006, 05:59 PM
LOL Danny Granger for Shawn Marion? No way. That's crazy talk. I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that.

Frank Slade
05-15-2006, 08:19 PM
We should have had Shawn Marion in 99. :(

And to add to that.. To think we traded our 2003 1st Rounder to ATL
in the Tinsley Trade, and that Pick ended up being Boris Diaw.. :(

Young
05-15-2006, 08:22 PM
And to add to that.. To think we traded our 2003 1st Rounder to ATL
in the Tinsley Trade, and that Pick ended up being Boris Diaw.. :(

Boris would suck here like he did in Atlanta. I credit a lot of his success to playing under a coach like Mike D'Antoni. There is a certain way to use a player like Boris and Mike D'Antoni knows exactly how. I'm not trying to take anything away from Boris, i'm just saying he would probably suck in Indiana...or atleast not be half the player in Indiana as he is with Phoenix.

bulletproof
05-15-2006, 08:25 PM
And to add to that...we somehow missed the opportunity to draft Michael Jordan. :cry:

GO!!!!!
05-15-2006, 09:05 PM
Pass.... to much hassle and ugly shot... if the Suns think they are better of with Tim Thomas ( contact year ) and Kurt Thomas, Boris and the Return of Stoud then with them and Marion that makes you wonder... do they know something that we don't

rexnom
05-15-2006, 09:15 PM
Re-thinking this, there is NO way Shawn Marion gets traded. He is almost as vital to that team as Steve Nash is. I know Colangelo isn't in charge anymore but I don't think they'll make a mistake this big.

Anthem
05-15-2006, 09:25 PM
Value!

Anthem, I have all the respect in the world for you but ya know there is no way we will get anthing close to value for these two.

If Bird can kind any new home for them he should be considered for executive of the year. I could careless what we get back as long as they both are long gone by training camp.
Well, I didn't mean EQUAL value. Just something in return.

Nice to know I'm respected, though. :flirt:

Isaac
05-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Pass.... to much hassle and ugly shot... if the Suns think they are better of with Tim Thomas ( contact year ) and Kurt Thomas, Boris and the Return of Stoud then with them and Marion that makes you wonder... do they know something that we don't

Well, everyone also thought losing QRich and Joe Johnson for Diaw and Bell would hurt them a ton too.

pizza guy
05-15-2006, 10:15 PM
I honestly don't know how PHX could trade Marion. If not for him, Nash doesn't get his second MVP, Diaw isn't as good, nor is Barbosa, and (best Stephen A. voice) at the end of the day, the Suns aren't fighting anyone in the second round of the playoffs in hopes of making it to the WCF. Without Amare this year, I thought they were done for and had no chance. Marion stepped up and proved me wrong. Personally, I think Marion might have been more important this year than Nash because you know what Nash will bring, but Marion stepped up to another level this year.

Frank Slade
06-18-2006, 08:46 PM
According to this sounds like Sam Smith was right in regards to the Suns listening to Offers for Marion.


Phoenix Trying To Move Up?

DraftExpress.com -

18th June, 2006 - 8:20 pm

Multiple sources over the past week have informed DraftExpress that the Phoenix Suns are looking to package both of their first round picks (#21 and #27) to move up, likely into the teens portion of the draft.


The two players they are reportedly most interested in are Rodney Carney, Saer Sene and Thabo Sefolosha.

There are rumors that the Suns might even try to trade with Chicago and move up all the way to the #2 pick, a deal which would most likely involve Shawn Marion. [READ]

L I N K (http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1355)

Anthem
06-18-2006, 09:14 PM
Wow, good memory.

Robertmto
06-18-2006, 09:21 PM
According to this sounds like Sam Smith was right in regards to the Suns listening to Offers for Marion.


Phoenix Trying To Move Up?

DraftExpress.com -

18th June, 2006 - 8:20 pm

Multiple sources over the past week have informed DraftExpress that the Phoenix Suns are looking to package both of their first round picks (#21 and #27) to move up, likely into the teens portion of the draft.


The two players they are reportedly most interested in are Rodney Carney, Saer Sene and Thabo Sefolosha.

There are rumors that the Suns might even try to trade with Chicago and move up all the way to the #2 pick, a deal which would most likely involve Shawn Marion. [READ]

L I N K (http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1355)

Why would they need to move up all the way to # 2 to get those players? They want Morrison!!!

Trader Joe
06-18-2006, 09:27 PM
IMO Tyrus Thomas could make a lot of sense for Phoenix.

tadscout
06-18-2006, 09:33 PM
I found the little tidbit about <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Seattle</st1:place></st1:City> (below the <st1:City><st1:place>Phoenix</st1:place></st1:City> rumors) interesting. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Id trade a 2<SUP>nd</SUP> round pick and cash for the #10 pick.<o:p></o:p>


IMO Tyrus Thomas could make a lot of sense for Phoenix.

Isn't <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Marion</st1:place></st1:City> the proven version of what Thomas can potentially be?

Will Galen
06-18-2006, 11:22 PM
According to this sounds like Sam Smith was right in regards to the Suns listening to Offers for Marion.


Phoenix Trying To Move Up?

DraftExpress.com -

18th June, 2006 - 8:20 pm

Multiple sources over the past week have informed DraftExpress that the Phoenix Suns are looking to package both of their first round picks (#21 and #27) to move up, likely into the teens portion of the draft.


The two players they are reportedly most interested in are Rodney Carney, Saer Sene and Thabo Sefolosha.

There are rumors that the Suns might even try to trade with Chicago and move up all the way to the #2 pick, a deal which would most likely involve Shawn Marion. [READ]

L I N K (http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1355)



You are using Draft Express as proof that Sam Smith's statement was right about the Suns listening to offers for Marion?

Ah . . . forgive me but of course Sam was right! All teams listen to offers, that was a no brainer statement. Teams always LISTEN!

However, the Suns like what they have. They think with Amare Stoudemire and Kurt Thomas coming back they will be favorites next year. I don't know how many times Mike D'Antoni has said the Suns aren't trading Marion. It would take someone like Bosh or Wade for the Suns to trade Marion and that's not going to happen.

CableKC
06-18-2006, 11:48 PM
If the Bulls take Marion for the 2nd pick......given their salary situation...as Sam Smith mentioned above.....I could see them moving ( anytime between now and the 2007 offseason ) Gordon, Nocioni and/or Deng for some expiring contracts / picks.

They would be way over the cap when they are all due for an extension.

Trader Joe
06-19-2006, 08:49 AM
Isn't <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Marion</st1:place></st1:City> the proven version of what Thomas can potentially be?

Yes, but Thomas may even be more athletic than Marion plus he will make close to 12 million dollars less the next three years while on a rookie contract. They need to resign Diaw much more than worry about Marion. Moving Shawn makes a ton of sense if you can get Thomas for him.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 12:24 PM
Yes, but Thomas may even be more athletic than Marion plus he will make close to 12 million dollars less the next three years while on a rookie contract. They need to resign Diaw much more than worry about Marion. Moving Shawn makes a ton of sense if you can get Thomas for him.

Really? Diaw is better than Marion now? Why? Just because no one had heard of him before last year and he "improved" so much when Atlanta traded him to Phoenix?

I don't think there are many people out there that think Thomas will be better than Shawn Marion. Cheaper? Certainly. Better? Doubtful.

Slick Pinkham
06-19-2006, 02:08 PM
I don't think there are many people out there that think Thomas will be better than Shawn Marion. Cheaper? Certainly. Better? Doubtful.

I agree with you JayRedd, but I think the question is based upon the prospects of being able to re-sign Diaw, and so he is asking whether

(Thomas plus Diaw) > Marion

not whether Thomas > Marion (which he isn't)

I'd also rather have Matrix than both of those guys. Giving up quality for quantity never makes sense.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 02:13 PM
I agree with you JayRedd, but I think the question is based upon the prospects of being able to re-sign Diaw, and so he is asking whether

(Thomas plus Diaw) > Marion

not whether Thomas > Marion (which he isn't)

I'd also rather have Matrix than both of those guys. Giving up quality for quantity never makes sense.

Two nickels for a dime

Trader Joe
06-19-2006, 07:01 PM
Two nickels for a dime

In the end I guess it falls on one's opinion of Marion, Diaw, and Ty Thomas. I think Marion is far from all that. He cannot play in a half court offense to save his life. Diaw to me is more important to the Sun's offensive scheme because he is the one throwing the alley oop dunks and IMO he was more impressive than Marion in the playoffs. I think that keeping Diaw and trying to pick Thomas will ridding of yourselves of Marion's contract makes a ton of sense. I mean Thomas can easily do much of the same things Marion does with the alley oops and the defense. Plus Amare will be back. Just appears to me that cutting Marion's contract and picking up a guy like Thomas looks like a no brainer.

BoomBaby31
06-19-2006, 07:07 PM
The suns seem like they are hungry for some trades wanting to move Marion, Barbosa, and shopping their picks to move up. I hope they trade Marion to the Bulls, and we get gordon for "cheap" because they need to clear up cash.

Young
06-19-2006, 07:10 PM
People underrate Shawn Marion.

You say he is no good in the half court, while that may not be his strength, he has managed to average at least 17 points per game ever since his second year in the league, and shoot over 45% from the field in doing so.

Not only that, he is one of the best rebounders in the league, and is good for a couple steals and a block or 2 every game and he is ranked #1 in total efficiency points.

You can say Nash makes Marion better, which he does to a point, but Marion was good no matter which point guard he has played with. You can't say that about Boris Diaw or Tim Thomas.

Marion will be no easy guy to replace. He may be their best all around player. Now i'm not saying the Suns should keep Marion, because I don't think they can afford to because that means they could end up losing Diaw, Barbosa, and Tim Thomas.

While the Suns might have to get rid of Shawn Marion, it could end up hurting them a lot. Marion is very important to that team. It won't be easy to replace him at all, IMO.

Here is a team that would like Marion, Houston. They could offer Stromile Swift/8th pick/filler(s) in exchange for Shawn. That trade might not be bad for either team.

JayRedd
06-19-2006, 11:04 PM
Here is a team that would like Marion, Houston. They could offer Stromile Swift/8th pick/filler(s) in exchange for Shawn. That trade might not be bad for either team.

And since Tyrus Thomas is the probably the second coming of Stro Swift, may as well go for the more experienced player.

Young
06-19-2006, 11:26 PM
And since Tyrus Thomas is the probably the second coming of Stro Swift, may as well go for the more experienced player.

They might as well. This way they can get Ronnie Brewer or something like that too.

larry
06-20-2006, 12:39 AM
I would love to have Marion back to balling for an Indiana team.
I don't see why the Suns move him. See what you can do w/ Amerie back.
Maybe if they get KG to mix w/ Nash, but I don't think we could get him.
Maybe it's a money issue or is going to be soon, but I would think Nash, KG, Marion would be crazy. More so than Nash, KG, & Amerie.

Chauncey
06-20-2006, 07:01 AM
I'll add this quickly...there's been more than a handful of people that have brought this up over the last couple of months..but apparently Marion and Stoudemire aren't the best of friends.

Kegboy
06-20-2006, 09:23 AM
For the record, I would trade anyone in this draft for Marion. Anyone.

FlavaDave
06-20-2006, 09:43 AM
Nooo, that couldn't be. The Pacers have bottomed out because of Carlisle, Jermaine and the fact that TPTB don't have a vision.

What about a vision of a lineup of Tinsley/Jackson/Artest/JO/Foster? Three years ago, could Pacers management really have anticipated all these problems (to the extreme that they occured)?

Fool
06-20-2006, 10:44 AM
Its their job to do just that.

Anxiety
06-20-2006, 11:24 AM
For the record, I would trade anyone in this draft for Marion. Anyone.

Ditto.

FrenchConnection
06-20-2006, 11:43 AM
For the record, I would trade anyone in this draft for Marion. Anyone.

Any combination of 3 players in this draft will not be enough to get Marion in two years time. And before someone starts throwing out cap numbers at me, I am just making this point to show how weak I think this draft is.