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2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

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  • #1

    2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

    Today we evaluate the center position.

    As it stands right now we have Jeff Foster, David Harrison & Jermaine O'Neal who all can play center. Scot Pollard is a free agent & may or may not be re-signed by the team.

    We'll look at the strength & weakness of each player & then evaluate the overall position.

    Jeff Foster has been the starter for the past three seasons. Jeff is a very good defender of players who face the basket. He has fairly quick lateral quickness for a big man & thus can position himself between the ball & the basket often times causing a charge or a passoff. Jeff also has quick hands so he does slap balls away quite a bit as well. Jeff is also a very quick rebounder & he has spent time studying where the ball will go after a shot so he often gets to the ball before anyone else because of his knowledge of where the ball will drop.

    He is a willing pick setter, screen setter.

    His biggest attribute may be in the fact that he is an energy guy. He is always playing at a high level & I don't think anyone has or can ever accuse him of dogging it on the floor.

    Jeff's weakness are a complete & utter lack of any offensive skills other than a dunk or a putback lay up. He has zero ability to hit a jumper from either 5 or 15 feet, thus allowing teams to just lay off of him & often times double team Jermaine O'Neal. Jeff is not good at defending back to the basket players as long as they can back him down. If Mark Blount & Brendan Haywood would play vs. Jeff every night they would be all-star players & neither of these two are very good vs. anybody else.

    Jeff can be solved by other teams simply placing a body on him. Every year in the playoffs at some point in time Jeff just simply gets put on the bench because other teams shut him off of the glass & his lack of offense makes him a liability on the floor.

    Injurys are starting to be a concern as well. Now not in the way that a lot of people think. IMO, his game has improved as he has aged because now he is beginning to rely more on smarts & strength instead of quickness & athleticism. However he is playing fewer & fewer games each year so you have to wonder how his body will handle the beatings that can occur in the post.

    David Harrison has something you cannot teach, size. Not only is he tall, a legit 7', but he is very wide & thick. However he is not fat as most of his weight comes from solid muscle. David has shown signs of being a very good player on offense in the low post & can hit a face up jumper from about 10' out which is about all you really can ever want out of your center. He has shown signs of being a great shot blocker in fact on a couple of occasions I'd say he's shown he can be a game changing shot blocker. Only Shaq & Eddy Curry have any hope whatsoever of backing David down & even only Shaq really can do it.

    He is a willing screen/pick setter. He does not shy away from physical contact at all & in fact often times people shy away from him.

    David's weakness is simple, his brain. This is a man who if he had the mentallity of a Shaq could be a mini me version of the Diesel. I'm not kidding he has the physical tools to do it & is gifted enough on the offensive end to be like him (No I'm not saying he could be as good as Shaq or even as close to as good I'm just saying he could be very good).

    He can litterally make the dumbest fouls I've ever seen on the floor in my life & on offense he can be to quick to take shots in a double team & does not pass out as fast as he could.

    However one of the main complaints about David coming out of college was that he lacked the work ethic to succeed in the NBA. According to Bird in his press conferance David is staying in Indianapolis again this summer to work with the team & will participate in the summer league team again. I think the work ethic is just fine.

    One last problem & it is a big one. His attitude vs the referee's. Obviously the fans in this state are tired of the players on this team acting as though they never commit a foul so David is going to be on a short leash with the fans & if he continues along this path I suspect he will recieve the Stephen Jackson treatment. But worse, I think David is getting a reputation with the officials & let's just say I don't think you will see a lot of benefit of the doubt calls go his way if he doesn't change & fast.

    Jermaine O'Neal has all the tools to be a star center in the NBA. He is 6'11" tall & he weighs 265lbs of pretty much solid muscle. He is one of the better shot blockers in the entire NBA & can defend the post very well. He is a premier post player on offense & only maybe a handfull of players have more moves around the basket than he does.

    He is becoming a better passer & has worked hard this season to hit whatever cutters we may have.

    He is willing to set picks/screens but I wouldn't call him eager to do it.

    Jermaine's weakness is along the lines of David's just not as severe. The only reason Jermaine O'Neal is not the # 2 center in the NBA right now is because he does not like physical contact. Body structure wise as I've listed there are only a few who are bigger than him. Whenever teams become physical with him instead of accepting it as a challenge he becomes offended because either they or the refs do not show him enough respect to keep them from doing it. He is a good rebounder but he is a poor positional rebounder & rarely boxes his player off of the glass.

    Only Jermaine keeps Jermaine from being a star here.

    Scot Pollard is a physical player. He is a good positional rebounder & is a better than average post defender about people backing down to the basket. He can hit a face up jumper from 10-15' & has very good hands around the basket when he tips offensive rebounds. He is a good passer.

    He is a willing screen/pick setter.

    Scot has lower than average lateral quickness for a big man so players that face the basket can get a jump on him. He has no post offense of his own at all. Injury's have been a proble with Scot for years & his availabilty has been in question many times. However I question how often he is injured vs the coach just not playing him.

    Scot is a free agent & I would not be suprised to see him sign elswhere.

    Ok, let's look at the position as a whole.

    As we speak, IMO, we have only one true center on our team, David Harrison.

    Both Jermaine O'Neal & Jeff Foster are better off when they are playing the power forward positions & matched with a stronger post player.

    I think that David Harrison has been handled poorly by the current coach. Now don't get me wrong David has not helped his cause at all but I think what the team should have done was during the second quarter if David gets two fouls you just let him play through it. If he fouls out in the first half is that really any different from him getting two fouls in the second quarter going to the bench & then getting two fouls in the third quarter & never seeing the game again? I don't think so. I think right now David is playing looking over his shoulder & I don't think that his helpfull.

    If I were the coach I would simply tell David that he can foul & not have to worry about it, but the first time he stops & complains to a ref about a foul then he's going to the bench & the next time he does it he is not getting off of the bench till the next game. Then if he does it again he doesn't play the next game so on & so forth till he understands that he cannot talk to the referee's.

    Jeff is just better off when he comes off of the bench because whether he plays as a starter or as a backup his production is about the same & when he comes in vs other teams second tier he is better than they are so he brings an influx of energy.

    Jermaine has stated he is going to lose 15 lbs which is a good thing for him so when he does he then will have a legit reason to not be the center. However that just makes our center spot more shaky.

    We need to sign a veteran big man who can defend the post & grab rebounds, then we have to convince our coach to let that person play.

    Yes, I'll go ahead & say it now. We need a Dale Davis like player as we have since the 00 season, with the short exception of last season when we had Dale Davis. However Dale is to old now to be of any real help so I think we have to look to either work a trade or sign a free agent.

    But I'll say it again, you have to have a coach who is willing to play those types of players & so far (other than Dale) Rick has not shown he wants to do that.

    The center position, to me anyway, is a glaring weakness on our team & should be addressed immediately.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

    I'm not going to get into the specifics, except to say what I've said since the season ended.

    I hope that Jeff Foster is the big guy off the bench next season, because that means the Pacers have really upgraded their center position. I do hope that happens.

    Now before Doug in OH rips Jeff again I better log off

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

      Originally posted by Unclebuck
      I'm not going to get into the specifics, except to say what I've said since the season ended.

      I hope that Jeff Foster is the big guy off the bench next season, because that means the Pacers have really upgraded their center position. I do hope that happens.

      Now before Doug in OH rips Jeff again I better log off
      Nope - that horse is dead - I am done
      Heywoode says... work hard man.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

        Originally posted by Unclebuck
        I hope that Jeff Foster is the big guy off the bench next season, because that means the Pacers have really upgraded their center position. I do hope that happens.
        Ditto.

        I don't believe the Pacers will be able to re-sign Pollard, even if Bird says they would like to. I either don't believe Pollard will be willing or I don't believe the Pacers will offer enough.

        Harrison has to develop. And, I'm right in tune with Peck's handling of Harrison's mouth. It's exactly the way that I've handled players that I've coached through the years.

        It would seem that we have the assets (Jackson, Tinsley, Jones) to acquire a pretty good center... at least one capable of competing for major minutes on the floor.

        It all just boils down to how Larry and Donnie prioritize our needs. If a new SG or PG gets more attention, then we will be lucky if we get a backup center that will see many minutes.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

          Well assuming that JO isn't traded and he does lose 15lb than I have
          to believe that Larry and DW will go for a center.

          Of course I have seen our needs not meet more times than not so
          I'll hold my breath.

          As for Scott Pollard I hope we resign him and carry 3 centers into
          next year. With so many needs I highly doubt we can.

          Of the centers out there that we might be able to get, I like Kaman, Nazr, Magloire.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

            Originally posted by Peck
            If I were the coach I would simply tell David that he can foul & not have to worry about it, but the first time he stops & complains to a ref about a foul then he's going to the bench & the next time he does it he is not getting off of the bench till the next game. Then if he does it again he doesn't play the next game so on & so forth till he understands that he cannot talk to the referee's.

            You used the right word in the beginning, but changed it to "talk" here. I doubt you did it on purpose, and it was just the wrong choice of word, but DH has to be able to talk to the officials.

            An open door of communication between David and an official will help both sides. It will let DH know what he did wrong, and let officials know he's working on their relationship and his fundamentals.

            I'd hate to see DH just shut his mouth completely, and never ask for an explaination. Being told why it was wrong teaches more than just being told it was wrong.

            But I'd definately draw a line between staring at an official and outright complaining, than asking for an explaination.
            “Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

              Originally posted by Gamble
              Of the centers out there that we might be able to get, I like Kaman, Nazr, Magloire.
              I can't imagine a scenario in which we could pry Kaman from the Clips, but I certainly hope you're right.

              PJ Brown might be another stop-gap possibility, as well as Antonio Davis (if he doesn't retire) or *gasp* Michael Olowokandi.
              "I'll always be a part of Donnie Walsh."
              -Ron Artest, Denver Post, 12.28.05

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                I am not ready to throw in the towel on David. Most of the work needs to be done between his ears but he might learn to control it.

                Jermaine has made progress in this area.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                  I am not throwing in the towel on big DH. I just want a vet who
                  can produce good defensive minutes for us.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                    Jermaine O'Neal : Not a center. Could be great center, already is great PF so leave him there.

                    Foster : Rebounds, nothing more.

                    Harrison : Few bursts of good offensive game here and there.

                    Pollard : Defense.

                    All our legit centers dont have an all round game. Foster and Pollard excel in one thing and David just gives us hope in some games that he can be something good but I doubt he ever will be.
                    My Dream Team

                    PG - A.Iverson
                    SG - K.Bryant
                    SF - R.Artest
                    PF - J.O'Neal
                    C - D.Howard

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                      Originally posted by J_2_Da_IzzO
                      Foster : Rebounds, nothing more.

                      Foster and Pollard excel in one thing and David just gives us hope in some games that he can be something good but I doubt he ever will be.


                      You don't think Jeff is a good defender

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                        JO should be our center. He doesn't want to be, but he needs to be based on our current roster. Period.

                        But, since he squeals like a fax machine over it, I sure hope we slot somebody else in the role. But Foster and Pollard are just so flawed on offense that it hurts us. If one thing the Bulls teams taught us, it is that you can win with a marginal center. It is pretty sad when a person laments not having a Luc Longley. (sigh)

                        And it isn't just that they can't score. They can't catch the ball. They can't dribble. Even when they shoot a 2 ft. layup you don't feel secure it is really going in. Such ineptness at this stage of being in the leauge is just unforgivable. You can blame some of it on the coach, but there is a little bit of Popeye in each of them to not score a bit more.

                        The injuries between all three guys is pretty daunting as well.

                        I'm fine with getting a defensive stopper, but give me a guy who can catch, pass, and score 8-10 pts a game. I don't expect Shaq, but throw me a friggin' bone.

                        Harrison. I don't hate Harrison, I'm just not sure this is the team for him. We just don't need a project at that position at this time. We could handle a project at SF, but now is the time to have a veteran at C.

                        I would like to keep him, but I've said before that I won't die if he is traded. We have to lose some of our headcases and he is one that should have some trade value b/c of his size and small contract.
                        “Seventy percent of me talking on the court is personally for me to get me
                        motivated and going. Thirty percent is to see if I can get into the opponent’s head.”
                        Reggie Miller

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                          I thought maybe 3 years ago that JO was our center. I've since changed my mind. He is a better player lighter and at the PF. Jeff is a PF also.

                          I'm to the point were I just want a big body to play by JO. Unfortunately we don't have any one who is reliable physically and mentally.

                          That said our back court is more of a concern to me.
                          "They could turn out to be only innocent mathematicians, I suppose," muttered Woevre's section officer, de Decker.

                          "'Only.'" Woevre was amused. "Someday you'll explain to me how that's possible. Seeing that, on the face of it, all mathematics leads, doesn't it, sooner or later, to some kind of human suffering."

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                            Originally posted by blanket
                            I can't imagine a scenario in which we could pry Kaman from the Clips, but I certainly hope you're right.

                            PJ Brown might be another stop-gap possibility, as well as Antonio Davis (if he doesn't retire) or *gasp* Michael Olowokandi.
                            I don't think Michael Olowokandi would come back to Indy because of the time he was arrested in a local night club.
                            STARBURY

                            08 and Beyond

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: 2006 off-season evaluations part 2....

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck
                              You don't think Jeff is a good defender
                              You're trying to pick up last minute "Most Humerous" votes, aren't you??



                              David is a better post defender that Jeff, already.

                              Jeff is good at that wimpy front-the-post crap.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                              Comment

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