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BillS
05-11-2006, 08:00 AM
I think I will probably amaze and confound those who have known me a long time.

If there aren't major personnel changes on the floor or in the coaching staff before training camp I am going to be very disappointed in management. I'm not going to go all PFFL on them, but for the first time I will truly believe they have left the path of sanity.

Yes, this is coming from someone who has always advocated a "go slow, wait and see how the pieces fit before you throw them out" approach.

At this point, we've seen how the pieces fit. Badly. Nothing short of a Frontal Lobotomy is going to keep SJax from whining while his man makes undefended plays at the other end. A little break over the summer will not suddenly make all these guys work together like ... well, like Detroit (man, that tasted baaaad in my mouth!) Nothing less than a complete physical rebuild will make Jamaal Tinsley into anything more than a 42-game-per-year player.

Sure, Larry, they are all good guys, but when the engine is broken you don't just fill it up with gas and start on that cross-country trip anyway, figuring you can fix it real quick if you throw a rod in New Mexico.

For those of you who've always thought Donnie moved too slowly, you better hope and pray that he isn't being replaced by someone who thought his actions have been too precipitous...

Unclebuck
05-11-2006, 10:30 AM
OK, I agree with you.

But to gauge what you mean.

What if Rick is back, the Pacers re-sign Peja, JO is not traded. If Jax and Tinsley are traded and Freddie is not re-signed.

So we have a new starting point guard, a new starting shooting guard, and a new backup shooting guard, and AJ returns as the backup point.

Would you consider that "major personnel changes"

Bball
05-11-2006, 10:46 AM
I'm still interested in how the coaching situation is shaking out. Is Larry going to dictate something to Carlisle? Is he just going to live with his coaching and system 1 more year regardless if he disagrees with the system, use of players, and administering of discipline?

Because it appears clear to me Bird and Carlisle aren't on the same page.

A coaching change, either in system or coach, could do wonders but I find it hard to imagine any coach taking well to a "how to" memo coming down from management.

Which still doesn't change that fact that some players are going to have to go and there will be a lot of disappointed and questioning fans if this roster remains largely unchanged come fall. Or would it be better to call them former fans?

-Bball

ChicagoJ
05-11-2006, 10:50 AM
Bill,

Is the dark side really that bad?

You can come hang out with bball, and me, and DougOH, and the others. We'll have fun.

And we can pick on our crazy uncle Buck.

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2006, 10:57 AM
Bill,

Is the dark side really that bad?

You can come hang out with bball, and me, and DougOH, and the others. We'll have fun.

And we can pick on our crazy uncle Buck.

If you guys need any advice on Living on the Dark Side, let me know.

Maybe I can be a technical advisor.

Hint #1 - You become a true darksider when your first response to every single piece of news about your team is sarcastically negative.

Example: Channing Frye made the All-rookie team? That means Isiah will add him to a deal for another overpaid, overhyped, over-the-hill, injured veteran. Maybe we can deal him for K-Mart or Antoine Walker. Along with draft picks.

ChicagoJ
05-11-2006, 11:03 AM
I hear you and I are going to be hanging out on the same ledge soon.

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2006, 11:07 AM
I hear you and I are going to be hanging out on the same ledge soon.

The first stage to recovery is accepting that you have a problem.

I accept that my team completely sucks with no reasonable prospects for improvement in my lifetime.

BillS
05-11-2006, 11:43 AM
OK, I agree with you.

But to gauge what you mean.

What if Rick is back, the Pacers re-sign Peja, JO is not traded. If Jax and Tinsley are traded and Freddie is not re-signed.

So we have a new starting point guard, a new starting shooting guard, and a new backup shooting guard, and AJ returns as the backup point.

Would you consider that "major personnel changes"

I consider dumping 2 starters and a 7th/8th man pretty major, so yes. Considering that some others will probably need to go as filler or incentive and that we have two open roster slots, the potential is there to look very different next year in both starting lineup and in bench rotation. And <i>that</i> is what I want to see.

BillS
05-11-2006, 11:44 AM
I hear you and I are going to be hanging out on the same ledge soon.

Just clean up that pigeon poop first. Didn't your mama teach you anything about ledgekeeping?

Doug in CO
05-11-2006, 12:04 PM
:welcome:

grace
05-11-2006, 12:08 PM
BillS-

You don't have to go all the way to the dark side. Instead start watching the Bulls. If they manage to get a post player they might actually really be good. And if they're not, well, it's better than living among the pigeon poop.

Los Angeles
05-11-2006, 01:28 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

Los Angeles
05-11-2006, 01:29 PM
I'll start:

When the going gets tough ... the timid become fans of some other team. :-p

Putnam
05-11-2006, 01:35 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...


... the Pacers can feel fustrated.

tinsley#11
05-11-2006, 01:55 PM
When the going gets tough...Jack gets T'ed up.

RWB
05-11-2006, 01:59 PM
When the going gets tough.....fake an injury

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2006, 02:04 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

The Knicks become Human Origami.

MagicRat
05-11-2006, 02:16 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

Play a clip from Hoosiers on the scoreboard......

Bball
05-11-2006, 02:20 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

When the going gets tough ... You know Jonathon Bender is nowhere to be found.


:tongue:

-Bball

BillS
05-11-2006, 03:01 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

... it must be a Pacers post-season.

BillS
05-11-2006, 03:10 PM
BillS-

You don't have to go all the way to the dark side. Instead start watching the Bulls. If they manage to get a post player they might actually really be good. And if they're not, well, it's better than living among the pigeon poop.

:spitout:
:jawdrop:
:notlisten:

pizza guy
05-11-2006, 08:49 PM
When the going gets tough...

Hope you're not sitting in the stands.

Jermaniac
05-11-2006, 08:58 PM
When the going gets tough...

Hope you're not sitting in the stands.

LMAO

Evan_The_Dude
05-11-2006, 10:55 PM
When the going gets tough... You know Peja aint playing.

pizza guy
05-11-2006, 10:58 PM
When the going gets tough...

Rick Carlisle calls for Anthony Johnson.

brichard
05-11-2006, 10:59 PM
I can't imagine anybody will particularly happy without some change. This is about as ho hum I've felt in the playoffs since I can remember. I suppose with Reggie you held out hope of the miracle. The hangover of Ron Artest and Reggie Miller really has taken a toll on the fans.

I'm not upset if Rick is gone, but I think he is the least of your worries. Bird has said the magic word over and over again... chemistry. Even when our injuries were minimal at the beginning of the year and most of our starters were in play, they just weren't clicking together. And the MO of this team this year was to lose to teams with lesser records with great frequency. That tells me that this team is composed of mental midgets. Rick Carlisle or not, guys like MJ were far too competitive to let that happen.

We must at least rid ourselves of Tinsley or Jackson. And to do so will probably necessitate the Bon Voyage of one of our good guys. In my personal opinion, here are the guys I'd like to see with a new area code in order.

1. Tinsley- Why Tinsley first? He hasn't played much, and his position sets the entire tone for the team. And that tone is one that is extremely inconsistent and emotional. On the right team Tinsley could still be a good fit, but his personality mixes like gas and fire with this team.

2. Jackson- Jalen Rose. His box of chocolates play combined with his poor emotions make him a desirable person to trade. When is the last time a Pacer got booed? Man, that has to be a long time ago. The only reason I list him second to Tinsley is that I do think he can play it straight and narrow with the right leadership. Let's face it, he won a ring so he can't be all bad. And the one thing he does do is play defense. We just need somebody (ie the PG) to keep him in line.

3. Saras- If we aren't going to play him, trade him. It isn't fair to him and he makes way too much money to be treated for splinters in his bottom.

Preferred trade Partners:

1. Foster- Jeff has some trade value and I just don't think we'll miss him all that much. He's lost some of his athleticism to injury and his utter lack of offensive production makes him a guy you can lose. I don't want to lose him, but you have to offer somebody with value to get somebody of value. I think his market value may actually be higher than his real value.

2. Harrison- Here is where I draw the ire of the Harrison faithful. I like David, but he's a risk based on his temper. Again I will point out that this is a flaw that is rife on this team. If we could package him with Tinsley or Jackson and our team just got a much better emotional balance.

I've come to decide that I think it is Tinsley who is really being set to be traded. Bird kept talking him up while Jackson has been relatively trashed. Do you trash a guy you want to trade and lower his trade value? Based on a historical perspective we prefer to prop up the guy whe are shopping.

Bird was pretty effusive with the Tinsley praise and I have to think there is a reason.

Doug in CO
05-11-2006, 10:59 PM
when the going gets tough

we miss Reggie

DisplacedKnick
05-11-2006, 11:43 PM
When the going gets tough ...

Metamucil

Will Galen
05-12-2006, 01:28 AM
Brichard,

You need to post more often! Your posts are excellent!

owl
05-12-2006, 03:53 AM
2. Harrison- Here is where I draw the ire of the Harrison faithful. I like David, but he's a risk based on his temper. Again I will point out that this is a flaw that is rife on this team. If we could package him with Tinsley or Jackson and our team just got a much better emotional balance.

.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

This is the place where you have to go to get rid of one of the two worst
attitudes on the team. Golden State would be a good trading partner.
It is either Harrison or Foster joined with Tinsley or Jax in trade.


owl

RWB
05-12-2006, 07:04 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
This is the place where you have to go to get rid of one of the two worst
attitudes on the team. Golden State would be a good trading partner.
It is either Harrison or Foster joined with Tinsley or Jax in trade.

owl

So I guess Bird must have been lying and boosting Harrison's trade value when he made that statement? Yep, I hate those guys that have that work hard attitude.:devil:


Q. What would you like Danny Granger to work on this summer?

A. I'd like to have Danny all summer for myself. There's a lot of things he can improve on. Obviously he's a very talented player, but Danny and David Harrison know what they have to do. David's been here the last two years and he's going to be here all summer and he works very, very hard. He likes this work. He likes to do things to try to get better and he's really improved.

owl
05-12-2006, 08:47 AM
Granger works hard and gets better.
Harrison works hard and becomes the Hulk.
Same effort but different results, so far.


owl

BillS
05-12-2006, 10:16 AM
The difference between Jax and Harrison?

Harrison is young and can still be molded. As far as I can tell, he hasn't gone into the "I don't have anything to learn" stage.

For instance, imagine Harrison with Duncan on the same team as a role model. Do you think that would not make a major change in his attitude?

The rap Harrison had when he came into the NBA was that he was too lazy to work on his play. I haven't seen evidence of that physically, I don't know about mentally.

grace
05-12-2006, 12:00 PM
I'll start:
When the going gets tough ... the smart ones first blame Larry Bird and then become fans of some other team. :-p


Fixed :tongue:

Tom White
05-12-2006, 07:30 PM
Complete this phrase:

When the going gets tough ...

Bird stays in Europe.

owl
05-12-2006, 07:46 PM
The difference between Jax and Harrison?

Harrison is young and can still be molded. As far as I can tell, he hasn't gone into the "I don't have anything to learn" stage.

For instance, imagine Harrison with Duncan on the same team as a role model. Do you think that would not make a major change in his attitude?

The rap Harrison had when he came into the NBA was that he was too lazy to work on his play. I haven't seen evidence of that physically, I don't know about mentally.

Harrison also had an attitude rap in College. I just think it is difficult to
change that attitude, not impossible but difficult. I would be more willing to
wait on Harrison if it were not for the other attitudes on the team.
I do not like watching this team very much. Imagine what this team
could have been if Bender was healthy. He never complained or griped at
the refs. I am sooo sick of that.

owl

Bball
05-12-2006, 07:57 PM
Imagine what this team
could have been if Bender was healthy. He never complained or griped at
the refs. I am sooo sick of that.

owl

The refs don't pay that much attention to the end of bench so it would've been a waste of time. And that was when he even made it to Conseco in the first place. :rimshot:

-Bball

Shade
05-12-2006, 08:15 PM
Fixed :tongue:

I'm just waiting to see where Eddie Gill ends up before claiming my allegiance for next season.

DisplacedKnick
05-14-2006, 08:30 AM
And again, if you REALLY want to know what The Dark Side is like, you need to be a Knicks fan:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2444469

Larry Brown's dream job with the New York Knicks could end after only one season.

Madison Square Garden chairman James Dolan, who's upset over Brown's record and the coach's public criticism of his players, is considering buying out the final four years of the coach's contract, the New York Daily News reported in Sunday's editions.

The buyout is worth at least $40 million, the newspaper reported.

The Knicks declined to comment.

One published report indicated Knicks president Isiah Thomas was in line to replace Brown as head coach, the newspaper said, but the team would not confirm nor deny it.

Brown, who led the Knicks to a 23-59 season, has indicated that he will not resign. But the club could avoid having to pay another coach upward of $5 million a year if Thomas takes the job, the Daily News reported. One source told the newspaper that Thomas -- who coached the Pacers from 2000-2003 -- would be amenable to coaching the Knicks.

In April, one day after the Knicks completed one of the worst seasons in franchise history, Thomas said the Hall of Fame coach would return to coach the team for a second season. The underachieving roster was another story.

"I am loyal to winning and I am not loyal to any singular individual," Thomas said then. "I'm going to do what I need to do to make our team better. ...

"When you won 23 games, I think we'll make some changes," he said. "Coach and I haven't sat down and fully decided what changes we'll make, but we'll probably make some changes."

rexnom
05-14-2006, 02:33 PM
One published report indicated Knicks president Isiah Thomas was in line to replace Brown as head coach
I am SO sorry. My only suggestion is get NBA Live, you guys are awesome on there.