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View Full Version : Do you want David Harrison to be a Pacer next season?



SoupIsGood
05-07-2006, 07:36 PM
It seems like I've been seing a lot of people including David on their "please trade" list, so I'm going to make an official tally of it.

Do you want David Harrison to be a Pacer next season? I'm going to make it a simple Yes or No.... if you aren't sure, just go with your gut feeling.



















(Actually, I'm making a list of who I should include on my ignore list.)





(Just kidding)

317Kim
05-07-2006, 07:38 PM
Yes. HULK SMASH. when he gets the chance.

Anthem
05-07-2006, 07:39 PM
I put "yes." But I'd also be willing to include him in a trade, depending on what we'd get back.

Jermaniac
05-07-2006, 07:39 PM
If we can get a proven big and he has to be included in the trade, then we do it.

Isaac
05-07-2006, 07:39 PM
I feel bad for David that he has to play for Rick. For David's sake I hope Rick is gone next year.

David is a great guy and can be a very good player. I like him a lot, and I'd be very upset if he was gone.

Evan_The_Dude
05-07-2006, 07:52 PM
I voted yes and I'm not even sure why. I think he's been part of the bad culture AJ talked about, I don't really think he's a smart player, and I think he's clumsy and pretty uncoordinated. But I also think he's been a victim of Carlisle's system, his playing time is too random, he's lacking a big man mentor, and he's shown flashes of what he can do.... but that usually happens without Jermaine available.

I think he has enough potential to stick around. Should he not be a part of the rotation by the trade deadline, he'll easily be our deadline "wildcard"... Something Joe Dumars is becoming famous for having ready.

Frank Slade
05-07-2006, 08:22 PM
Hulk should stay...Unless he is packaged in a no-brainer trade..

Harrison still has a good amount of upside, rare size and strength and athleticism for his size.
The main thing is Harrison is only slotted to make 739K, which is less than Eddie Gill made this year.. :-p

Young
05-07-2006, 08:24 PM
I put "yes." But I'd also be willing to include him in a trade, depending on what we'd get back.

I agree with you 100%.

I don't like David, he can't play defense without fouling but he does have a solid offenseive game, is still young so he can still improve greatly, and he is cheap.

If you need to trade him to get a better big guy you do it but don't trade him because you think that he is part of the problem because he is cheap and just might be a solid player next year.

J_2_Da_IzzO
05-07-2006, 08:59 PM
If we can get a proven big and he has to be included in the trade, then we do it.

Agree.

If I had to choose I wouldnt want him back. Vastly overrated on this board.

Kegboy
05-07-2006, 09:32 PM
I'd like to keep him. If he gets traded for something worthwhile, I won't be that upset, though.

Sollozzo
05-07-2006, 10:09 PM
I voted "yes", because I want to see him succeed here. With a solid coaching staff and a strong worth ethic, I think he can.

But if he were traded this offseason in a deal that made us a better team, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Unclebuck
05-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Oh yes all of David's problems are due to the coaching staff. That makes a lot of sense

Sollozzo
05-07-2006, 10:35 PM
Oh yes all of David's problems are due to the coaching staff. That makes a lot of sense


I didn't neccessarily mean "new" coaching staff, I meant a "solid" one for him. That could be just simply adding a big man coach to the current one.

Everyone knows alot of David's problems are his fault.

Jose Slaughter
05-07-2006, 10:49 PM
While not all of us are as solidly in the Harrison corner as SIG is, there is a group of us that thought he could have played a larger role this past season.

I was calling for him to start & hoping Carlisle would allow him to play thru the foul problems that impact (thanks Jay) most young bigs.

A front court with Harrison, Granger & O'Neal, given time to develope, could be very good.

I think if you remove Jackson & Tinsley from the team that some of Harrisons problems will be eliminated. I think the young & immature kinda feed off each other. Harrison has shown the past 2 off seasons that he is committed to getting better. I think its far too early to give up on him.

Keep him, start him, but let him know he stays on the court as long as he plays with in the system, stays out of foul trouble & most importantly, keeps his mouth shut.

beast23
05-07-2006, 11:27 PM
I think if you remove Jackson & Tinsley from the team that some of Harrisons problems will be eliminated. I think the young & immature kinda feed off each other. Harrison has shown the past 2 off seasons that he is committed to getting better. I think its far too early to give up on him.

Keep him, start him, but let him know he stays on the court as long as he plays with in the system, stays out of foul trouble & most importantly, keeps his mouth shut.I totally agree with this handling of Harrison, or any problem player for that matter. If you're not going to trade them away, then you absolutely have to re-train them. And that means communicating EXACTLY what you expect of them and what your rules are, then the cojones to follow through with your penalties when they fall short (behavior-wise).

denyfizle
05-07-2006, 11:36 PM
if Carlisle remains the coach then no simply because RC and DH don't mix well. but if we change the head coach, i'll still give DH another try and see how he performs under a different system.

brich
05-07-2006, 11:41 PM
I like David, and I want to keep him here, but I would still like to get a dependable veteran big man.

As fans, I think sometimes we too often look through rose colored glasses. It is easy to get caught up in a player's potential, and then automatically assume that the player is going to fully develop.

Another player that people are starting to get very excited about is Granger, and for similar reasons. The reality is that neither one of these player's are guaranteed to become top performers. Player's like Croshere and Bender tantalized and teased early in their careers, but they never really lived up to their hype. Austin just appeared to be a better player when he was coming off the bench, but when he started, and teams adjusted to his game, then he wasn't nearly as effective. Bender had injury issues, and he never really seemed to fully grasp the game.

I am higher on Danny, just because he seems to be adapting to the NBA game ahead of schedule. He has had a learning curve with fouls, and being a rookie the deck is stacked, but he has really seemed to learn from his mistakes. Teams will start keying on his weaknesses more next year, and how he adapts to that will ultimately show how good a player he is going to be.

David on the other hand, although he has shown flashes of greatness, seems to be on a much slower learning curve. Part of this seems to be with his maturity level. Granger already seems more mature then Dave, and frankly alot of players on this team. I think David is worth keeping because of his size and potential, but he is a gamble. I would prefer that we hedge our bets with a proven talent, get David a good "big man" coach, and then reevaluate his progress.

He needs to learn to stay out of foul trouble, and he needs to stop glaring at the officials. He has picked up some bad habits from some of his teammates. If he doesn't adapt to this, then he is never going to develop. If he stays in foul trouble then he won't be able to get the minutes that he needs.

This is just my personal opinion, but I think David has a 50% chance of reaching his potential right now. His odds will go up with proper coaching and tutoring. I think Danny has an 90% chance of reaching his potential.

Bball
05-08-2006, 03:15 AM
I do want Harrison here next year under certain conditions:
A: Not at the expense of a team changing trade. IOW, if there's a positive trade to be made for the betterment of the team on paper then I don't want a 'no Harrison trade' policy standing in the way.

B: I want him getting consistent minutes and treatment and allowed to make some mistakes. Also, he is allowed 6 fouls and I am not against letting him get all of those fouls. He might learn how to play with a bit of foul trouble or early fouls IF he's allowed to try.

C: Get a real former center to teach this guy. Someone who can relate to him and his role and vice versa. Work with him not only on his play with the ball but also his attitude toward officials.

I'm not saying leave him in the game if he gets 3 early first quarter fouls, but I am saying treat him as we would JO in that case and not bury him on the bench never to be seen again in the game.

If after 20-25 games or so we aren't seeing positive results with a consistent role then I say we can declare it time to move on and do just that.

We need to be willing to sacrifice early season games as part of the learning curve.

-Bball

Jaydawg2270
05-08-2006, 06:19 AM
yes, its too early to trade him

Seed
05-08-2006, 07:20 AM
While not all of us are as solidly in the Harrison corner as SIG is, there is a group of us that thought he could have played a larger role this past season.

I was calling for him to start & hoping Carlisle would allow him to play thru the foul problems that impact (thanks Jay) most young bigs.

A front court with Harrison, Granger & O'Neal, given time to develope, could be very good.

I think if you remove Jackson & Tinsley from the team that some of Harrisons problems will be eliminated. I think the young & immature kinda feed off each other. Harrison has shown the past 2 off seasons that he is committed to getting better. I think its far too early to give up on him.

Keep him, start him, but let him know he stays on the court as long as he plays with in the system, stays out of foul trouble & most importantly, keeps his mouth shut.
Sums up my thoughts too.

Putnam
05-08-2006, 08:45 AM
When we say we want Harrison to stay, we are ALSO saying we want a coach who is willing to develop him AND we want the team purged of bad influences so David can improve his on-court character.

I vote "yes" and agree with Jose Slaughter.

Slick Pinkham
05-08-2006, 08:49 AM
It totally depends upon who replaces him. I don't want him to get released.

I don't mind losing ANY player on this team as long as we get good value in return.

RWB
05-08-2006, 09:12 AM
When we say we want Harrison to stay, we are ALSO saying we want a coach who is willing to develop him AND we want the team purged of bad influences so David can improve his on-court character.

I vote "yes" and agree with Jose Slaughter.

Pizza dance with AJ and Scot = good.
Mouthing off to refs everytime like Jack = bad.

ChicagoJ
05-08-2006, 10:41 AM
I do want Harrison here next year under certain conditions:
A: Not at the expense of a team changing trade. IOW, if there's a positive trade to be made for the betterment of the team on paper then I don't want a 'no Harrison trade' policy standing in the way.

B: I want him getting consistent minutes and treatment and allowed to make some mistakes. Also, he is allowed 6 fouls and I am not against letting him get all of those fouls. He might learn how to play with a bit of foul trouble or early fouls IF he's allowed to try.

C: Get a real former center to teach this guy. Someone who can relate to him and his role and vice versa. Work with him not only on his play with the ball but also his attitude toward officials.

I'm not saying leave him in the game if he gets 3 early first quarter fouls, but I am saying treat him as we would JO in that case and not bury him on the bench never to be seen again in the game.

If after 20-25 games or so we aren't seeing positive results with a consistent role then I say we can declare it time to move on and do just that.

We need to be willing to sacrifice early season games as part of the learning curve.

-Bball

Perfect reply.

Of course, I'm a DH fan. So take that with a grain of salt. There is, of course, a risk that he won't ever get any better than the player he is now.

I think that risk is small.

I just don't get this accusation that David *can't* play defense without fouling. Not only can he play defense without fouling, he's also quite good at it.

Problem is, like many young centers in the NBA, he uses his hands too much because (1) that's easier, and (2) he hasn't really learned to not use his hands.

But when he does that, he shows that he can dominate the paint defensively for stretches of time. Now I understand when guys like UB that actually prefer a wimpy approach to guarding the paint (by fronting the post) don't appreciate DH's defense.

But we have no one else that can just eat up the interior.

DH is NOT a shotblocker, and he won't really be good as a weakside defender who plays goalie and intimidates the little guys. You want David to guard (and neutralize) the other team's big guy.

David, quite frankly, needs to play for a (assistant) coach that he can believe in and believes in him. I think we'll see an immediate attitude improvement and a tremendous on court (consistency) improvement.

He's shown all the tools, we just need a good big-man coach and some patience.

Now, OTOH, if we stumble into a trade that's going to replace him with a center that's more of a finished product, we shouldn't have a "David's untouchable" policy. There is, as I said at the top, a riskiness in his development. But right now we have no other center to develop.

RWB
05-08-2006, 10:52 AM
David, quite frankly, needs to play for a (assistant) coach that he can believe in and believes in him. I think we'll see an immediate attitude improvement and a tremendous on court (consistency) improvement.

He's shown all the tools, we just need a good big-man coach and some patience.


See, that's it, David's attitude prevents him from growing. I mean look if the guy isn't willing to work on his game in the summer like playing in the Summer league then he'll never change.....Whoa wait a minute, didn't David play last summer and was said to be looking pretty good? I must have got him confused with Bender who use to spend his summers in New Orleans with the division 3 kids. ;)

Unclebuck
05-08-2006, 11:56 AM
I never seen David playing any defense except horrible out of position defense. His defensive IQ is not any better than my 2 year old nephew.

He can block a shot or two on occasion and he can score a point or to

ChicagoJ
05-08-2006, 12:05 PM
That's because you're always looking in front of the offensive player.

:flirt:

David is in the right place for stong-side defense. His help-side defense isn't great but that's not the best place for him to be anyway.

BillS
05-08-2006, 12:52 PM
I said "yes" because I don't think there's a big man out there who is available right now that would cause him to fall completely out of the lineup.

You can't teach size.

That said, I agree with those who think he needs some extensive big man coaching and a chance to make 6 fouls in a <strike>five-minute span</strike> <strike>quarter</strike> game.

Mr. Pink
05-08-2006, 12:59 PM
yes. keep the hulk