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View Full Version : The Offseason 06: Hunt for the Big Man IV



scar
05-06-2006, 07:00 PM
So I've used my high tech equipment come up with a solution to the Pacers need for a big man as per Jermaine O'neal's request (he called me).

Rookies in the 2006 draft

Patrick O'Briant http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/patrickobryant.asp
Hilton Armstrong http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/hiltonarmstrong.asp

Free Agents (along with a possibility meter ranging from 1-10)

Antonio Davis (7)
Kelvin Cato (7)
Nazr Mohommed (6)
Ervin Johnson (6)
Lorenzen Wright (6)
Loren Woods (5)
Joel Pryzbilla (5)
Jake Voskuhl (5)
Greg Ostertag (4)
Michael Olowokandi (4)
Nene (3)
Alonzo Mourning (2)
Ben Wallace (1)

Via Trade
Your guess is as good as anyones.

8.9_seconds
05-06-2006, 07:25 PM
Alonzo Mourning makes my mouth water, but I want to him to retire a member of the heat.

owl
05-06-2006, 07:46 PM
Shelden Williams

Most ready bigman in the draft.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/sheldenwilliams.asp


owl

SoupIsGood
05-06-2006, 07:56 PM
:harrison:

Young
05-06-2006, 08:13 PM
About the only free agent that I really like is Antonio Davis.

In the draft I don't really like any of the big men that much who we have a shot at, atleast not compared to some of the swingmen. The only big man I really like is Tiago Splitter. I like Boone and Gray too but not compared to a guy like Rudy Fernandez.

As for trades, DeSagana Diop would be a solid acquisition. Solid defender and shot blocking skills, Still young too and cheap.

Primoz Brezec is another opition. Bad defender but good offenseive player.

Pavel Polkoldzin would also be a trade possability. He is a LONG TERM PROJECT but his size makes him very intriguing.

Brian Skinner is another possiability. Good defender and worker. A little overpaid though IMO.

Dikembe Mutombo might be a good addition. I'm sure Houston would trade him for the right deal. He wouldn't be added for production but more so as a mentor to the other big men.

Peck
05-06-2006, 08:16 PM
I heard somewhere that if we were looking for a starting center any time in the.....well, you know the rest.;)

Anyway out of the list you just put out I would take Wallace (yea like that is going to happen), Wright, Pryzbilla & Nene'. I wouldn't mind Mohamad.

The sad thing is though that on some nights David Harrison is as good if not better than all of them. I've seen him tear Ben Wallace apart because he is as strong as Ben & he is bigger with a better game.

It's up to both the Pacer & himself to see if he can ever put it all together.

If there was any way of getting Bynum from the Lakers I would do it in a heartbeat. This guy is going to be for real one day & unlike our team they have a big man coach who is helping him from day one.

Anthem
05-06-2006, 08:16 PM
Dikembe Mutombo might be a good addition.
Dude is 40 years old!

Young
05-06-2006, 08:21 PM
Dude is 40 years old!

Read what I posted. I posted he would be brought in as more of a MENTOR to our other big men than for his actual production. I understand he is 40 and isn't likely to produce much on the court, but he can help in other ways.

If Mutombo could play just 10-15 minuates a game thats good with me. He then can give David some pointers. David has a great future but he needs to learn how to play defense. DM may or may not help but would be worth a shot, IMO.

Anthem
05-06-2006, 08:24 PM
Read what I posted. I posted he would be brought in as more of a MENTOR to our other big men than for his actual production. I understand he is 40 and isn't likely to produce much on the court, but he can help in other ways.
Did you edit that or did I just miss it? :laugh:

I'm not against bringing a guy in as a mentor, but we still need a guy in here that can produce. If we got Deke, we'd need somebody else.

Young
05-06-2006, 08:41 PM
Did you edit that or did I just miss it? :laugh:

I'm not against bringing a guy in as a mentor, but we still need a guy in here that can produce. If we got Deke, we'd need somebody else.

Actually I did edited that post like 2-3 times so you probably saw that before I put that in, although I don't remember what all I added. Sorry about that.

Anyways I agree with you that if we got Deke we would still need another big guy.

Kegboy
05-06-2006, 10:50 PM
Dikembe Mutombo might be a good addition.

Good way to make sure Grace never sets foot in Conseco again. Only time I ever had to hold her back from going after a player. :blush:

Moses
05-06-2006, 10:55 PM
O'Bryant would be the best draft choice and Nazr would probably be the best FA we could tag.

grace
05-06-2006, 11:04 PM
Good way to make sure Grace never sets foot in Conseco again. Only time I ever had to hold her back from going after a player. :blush:

Wasn't that at Market Square?

Kegboy
05-06-2006, 11:08 PM
Wasn't that at Market Square?

Yes, when he was still with the Hawks. I wouldn't have been concerned if it was Conseco, since you wouldn't have had a straight shot down to the court. I just meant you'd never go to a game again if we signed him.

DrBadd01
05-06-2006, 11:18 PM
wouldn't mind trying to get Nene. Younger player who could take some of the pressure of JO. Jamaal Maglore could also be had what with Milwaukee having a surplus of big men.

brich
05-07-2006, 12:13 AM
Actually I did edited that post like 2-3 times so you probably saw that before I put that in, although I don't remember what all I added. Sorry about that.

Anyways I agree with you that if we got Deke we would still need another big guy.


The addition of a veteran "big man" is an interesting idea. I am not sure if Dikembe is the guy, but it would be great to have somebody show Harrison the ropes. We also need a big man coach, but it would be great to have a veteran "Crash Davis" (For Bull Durham fans) type player. This entire team could use a Crash Davis type guy. We need a mature veteran who the younger players can look up to, and who can have a calming influence on our high drama mama's.

Suaveness
05-07-2006, 12:37 AM
I heard somewhere that if we were looking for a starting center any time in the.....well, you know the rest.;)

Anyway out of the list you just put out I would take Wallace (yea like that is going to happen), Wright, Pryzbilla & Nene'. I wouldn't mind Mohamad.

The sad thing is though that on some nights David Harrison is as good if not better than all of them. I've seen him tear Ben Wallace apart because he is as strong as Ben & he is bigger with a better game.

It's up to both the Pacer & himself to see if he can ever put it all together.

If there was any way of getting Bynum from the Lakers I would do it in a heartbeat. This guy is going to be for real one day & unlike our team they have a big man coach who is helping him from day one.

Would Bynum be any better than Harrison if we never got a big man coach? Far as I'm concerned, if Harrison can actually learn from someone, I see no reason why he can't start. Minus the big mouth, of course.

Jose Slaughter
05-07-2006, 01:11 AM
I think Jake Sack-a-lettuce is available from Memphis. I'm not really sure that is the type center O'Neal was hoping for. I think he wants more of an Etan Thomas, Jamal Magloire player

Eindar
05-07-2006, 01:33 AM
Nazr Mohammed FTW

Anthem
05-07-2006, 01:38 AM
Ok, so if you were going to go out and get a big man to teach your young guys about the game, who do you get?

I'd have killed for Uncle Cliffy, but that ship has sailed.

We know Thomas loves anybody he drafts... would he trade us Malik Rose for Jamaal Tinsley? Where's Rimfire?

8.9_seconds
05-07-2006, 01:42 AM
I LOVE Malik Rose.

Robertmto
05-07-2006, 02:16 AM
I LOVE Malik Rose.

He's also like 40 years old.

Jose Slaughter
05-07-2006, 03:57 AM
Hello

If you want a guy to teach our bigs how to play the game, look up in the rafters.

Mel Daniels ring a bell.

Why they don't already use him is beyond me. Scott mentioned Tank in anothr thread, that would be a good pickup as well. Between the 2 of them they would either teach Harrison how to play or kill him.

Bball
05-07-2006, 04:38 AM
Ok, so if you were going to go out and get a big man to teach your young guys about the game, who do you get?

I'd have killed for Uncle Cliffy, but that ship has sailed.

We know Thomas loves anybody he drafts... would he trade us Malik Rose for Jamaal Tinsley? Where's Rimfire?

I keep seeing people mention Isiah (NY) trading for Tinsley because Isiah would covet him. Why did Isiah send JO to management to demand they trade Tinsley if he's so infatuated with him???

-Bball

Will Galen
05-07-2006, 04:40 AM
I keep seeing people mention Isiah (NY) trading for Tinsley because Isiah would covet him. Why did Isiah send JO to management to demand they trade Tinsley if he's so infatuated with him???

-Bball

Why did JO say at seasons end that Tinsley is our starter?

Anthem
05-07-2006, 08:45 AM
I keep seeing people mention Isiah (NY) trading for Tinsley because Isiah would covet him. Why did Isiah send JO to management to demand they trade Tinsley if he's so infatuated with him???
All in your head, man. All in your head.

Thomas liked Ron Mercer, too.

Mourning
05-07-2006, 09:29 AM
Magloire is who I would want, but we won't get him, because:

1) division rival
2) limited financial resources and we don't have what the Bucks want IMO
3) serious interest from Toronto

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

OTD
05-07-2006, 09:36 AM
Isn't Mel Daniels still with the Pacers?

Kegboy
05-07-2006, 10:35 AM
Mel Daniels has been with the Pacers forever. Every once in a while they show him working with guys over the summer. As far as I know, he's never made an impact at all. The guy is just not a coach.

Cliffy would be a good veteran presence, but he's not a Big. I'd love to get Kevin Willis. There's a guy who knows post play inside and out.

Sollozzo
05-07-2006, 10:46 AM
I'd love to get Kevin Willis. There's a guy who knows post play inside and out.


And is a guy who'd be 44 when the season started. He'd be older than anyone in history to play.

Moses
05-07-2006, 10:51 AM
And is a guy who'd be 44 when the season started. He'd be older than anyone in history to play.
I can already hear the play by play commentary of him throwing out his back/hip or him just tearing his ACL in a game. Why don't we just get Clyde Drexler or Dennis Rodman? While were at it, Let's get Bird to come play big man for us.

Mourning
05-07-2006, 11:15 AM
And is a guy who'd be 44 when the season started. He'd be older than anyone in history to play.

Yeah, so? We wouldn't be bringing him to really play more then token minutes for us. We would be bringing him here to teach David, nothing more nothing less.

If Willis gets more minutes then Primoz got his last year with us I would be surprised. On the other hand ... Rick is still the coach, so who knows he migh play Willis 38 a night :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Kegboy
05-07-2006, 11:28 AM
And is a guy who'd be 44 when the season started. He'd be older than anyone in history to play.

I'm not saying get him to play him, even though he still can. Sign him to be a player-coach, keep him inactive if necessary. I don't know how good of a coach he can be, but he'll be better at teaching moves than Chad Forcier.

Bball
05-07-2006, 01:45 PM
Why did JO say at seasons end that Tinsley is our starter?

No idea but JO's opinion or thinking doesn't matter to my point. My point was why would Isiah send JO to management to demand Tinsley be traded if Isiah was a fan of Tinsley?

-Bball

Bball
05-07-2006, 01:51 PM
All in your head, man. All in your head.

Thomas liked Ron Mercer, too.

I know what I read. Are you saying it was lies? It's been reported (by Vecsey) that Isiah sent JO to management to demand the trades of Artest, Mercer, and Tinsley. It was reported at the time and later brought up again when rumors began to fly of Artest going to the Knicks. Vecsey and Isiah quashed those rumors and Vecsey brought up Isiah's being thru with Artest during his last season here and even wanting to leave him off the playoff roster.

The new article again mentioned Isiah sending JO to management to demand Artest, Tinsley, and Mercer be traded (this prior to JO's signing of his last contract).

Either you're saying that I dreamed all of that...twice... or it's a blatant lie by Vecsey (who tends to have good Pacer sources)... or that you have some further info that I'm not privy to.

So which is it?

-Bball

Robertmto
05-07-2006, 01:51 PM
Go after John Thompson while ur at it!!!!!

Anthem
05-07-2006, 04:17 PM
I know what I read. Are you saying it was lies? It's been reported (by Vecsey) that Isiah sent JO to management to demand the trades of Artest, Mercer, and Tinsley. It was reported at the time and later brought up again when rumors began to fly of Artest going to the Knicks. Vecsey and Isiah quashed those rumors and Vecsey brought up Isiah's being thru with Artest during his last season here and even wanting to leave him off the playoff roster.

The new article again mentioned Isiah sending JO to management to demand Artest, Tinsley, and Mercer be traded (this prior to JO's signing of his last contract).

Either you're saying that I dreamed all of that...twice... or it's a blatant lie by Vecsey (who tends to have good Pacer sources)... or that you have some further info that I'm not privy to.
I'm gonna need a link for that. The original Vescey story was just that Jermaine went to management to demand those trades, not that Jermaine was sent by Zeke.

So there may have been a new article I didn't notice, but I'm positive the original one didn't mention Thomas at all.

Bball
05-07-2006, 07:06 PM
I'm gonna need a link for that. The original Vescey story was just that Jermaine went to management to demand those trades, not that Jermaine was sent by Zeke.

So there may have been a new article I didn't notice, but I'm positive the original one didn't mention Thomas at all.


I'll take a look for it but hopefully several people can verify seeing it. I think UB keeps track of Vecsey and he might've posted it so maybe he can remember it.

-Bball

SoThenRobbieSaid
05-07-2006, 07:29 PM
I like Joel, he's a big "dirty-work" type of player that the Pacers could use. But, then again, Harrison has Bender-esque potential; the guy could really become something. I mentioned a trade with Portland a while back that would bring Joel here, along with a shooter (Webster). That would eliminate a couple areas of concern for the Pacers. But, what do we give up to get them?

pizza guy
05-07-2006, 07:31 PM
Honestly, I like Hulk. He's taking his time to develop, but the dude has size that is hard to find, and a nice little touch around the hoop.

If we were to draft a big, O'Brient would be my choice, I like his size and the nbadraft.net review (I'm not a college bball person). I wouldn't mind letting Pollard walk, drafting this kid and letting him and Hulk duke it out for the spot. It would also allow Foster to play PF where his size is more of a match.

I'd love to get a big-man coach. I'm not sure who, but some one to help David out, because I can't picture Kevin O'Neill showing Hulk how back anyone down.

Anthem
05-07-2006, 07:36 PM
Here you go, Bball. The original story by Vescey.


BIG BABY! THAT'S JERMAINE
by Peter Vescey

LOS ANGELES - In case you're still wondering why the Pacers dissolved
into a dysfunctional urn of burning funk, take a whiff of Jermaine
O'Neal's self-promotional comments following his team's hasty playoff
expulsion.

Quoted ad nauseum, the alleged franchise player - whose credentials
include escorting Indiana out of the first round three straight
seasons and bulk-heading the United States' sixth-place finish in the
World Games - scolded unnamed teammates for not caring as much about
winning as he allegedly does. As if he's some kind of authority on
the subject or has earned the right to be its measuring instrument.

Clearly, O'Neal couldn't be more impressed with his individual
achievements (All-Star and Olympic status) and statistical
superiority. In his mind, leading the Pacers in scoring, touches,
shots, rebounds and blocks gives him the right to judge teammates and
deem a bunch of 'em unworthy in terms of dedication and effort.

Lost in the self-indulging thought process is the indisputable
connection between O'Neal's rise to dominancy (guaranteed to command
a max contract this summer) and the team's disharmonious collapse.

Finger Ron Artest's bizarre behavior all you want as the critical
cause, or Jamaal Tinsley, another frequent target.

Or perhaps you wish to blame the injuries to Brad Miller and Jonathan
Bender, Reggie Miller's decline, Al Harrington's mysterious
malfunction, or a combination of all the negativity for the Pacer
meltdown.

All I know is, the better O'Neal got, the more his teammates
regressed; the more spoiled he became by being the centrifugal force
and basked in being the team's post-game conscience, the more selfish
the team became; and the more success he enjoyed the haughtier his
sermons. None more arrogant than the one delivered soon after his
team's humiliating elimination.

Not only did O'Neal savage his teammates but he put team president
Donnie Walsh - who rescued Jermaine from Portland, where his reputed
sloth minimized his minutes (maybe he's an authority on the subject,
after all) - on notice he wouldn't consider re-signing with the
Pacers unless Isiah Thomas remains as coach.

Of course, O'Neal qualified, "I'm not necessarily coming back."

He might prefer to play alongside Tim Duncan or Tracy McGrady; it
depends on where he can pocket the most money and compete for the
most championships, which is certainly his prerogative as an incoming
free agent. It also depends, he insolently stipulated, on whom his
Pacer teammates will or won't be.

Sure sounded like a threat to me.

The impudence of O'Neal! Here's a guy who basically has done nothing
for the franchise worth celebrating while catapulting himself into
fame and fortune, and he deduces he deserves the right to pick and
choose coaches and teammates.

I'm not even part of the Pacers (though I can't say the same for The
Mysterious J.) and I'm outraged!

Why pollute this space with the Pacers when the Spurs are on the
precipice of dethroning the Lakers? Because I've learned which
teammates O'Neal wants vaporized. According to several informed
sources, when he meets with Walsh next week, Jermaine intends to
demand that Artest, Tinsley and Ron Mercer be traded.

I've got news for O'Neal. Should he follow through on his childish
plan, I suspect returning to Indiana will no longer be an option.

This a "Come To Your Senses" alert. I've known Walsh, or have known
what he's about, since I was a high school freshman. Nobody but the
Simon brothers tell him what to do, especially a big baby like
Jermaine.

"They're all big babies," says someone in the same position as Walsh.

And here's the follow-up, upon which you're basing your entire argument:

That summer O’Neal became a free agent. Before he re-signed, I wrote a column that charged him with trying to use his leverage (in conjunction with his distaste for Artest’s irresponsibility, disruptive behavior and aloofness) to pressure management to trade Artest, Mercer and Jamaal Tinsley. It was clear who put him to it; Jermaine is too nice a person to pull such a Machiavellian stunt.
Pretty thin gruel, if you ask me.

Bball
05-07-2006, 07:40 PM
RON MAKES ISIAH AR-TESTY

BAD MIX: The volatile Ron Artest brought out the worst in former Pacers coach and current Knicks president Isiah Thomas, who wanted to leave Artest off Indy's playoff roster three years ago, according to the Post's Peter Vecsey.



December 16, 2005 -- BEFORE commencing with today's communiqué, excuse me while I laugh in the faces of pretenders whose "sources" claim Isiah Thomas and Ron Artest had a solid relationship in Indiana . . . heckle the hoodwinked who fail to grasp the Knicks' president's phone call to Pacer CEO Donnie Walsh regarding his screwy swingman was nothing more than a pantomime performance to sidetrack a full-court press and appease fans . . . and mock the oblivious advocating the acquisition of the splattered meteor, period, forget about at any cost.

I can't decide which is more offensive to my senses: Artest's recent stream of unconsciousness or the fountains of misinformation spewing from squawking heads and media mannequins whose line of reasoning on all of the above is decorated in early emptiness.

Yeah, right, let's connect Larry Brown's and Ron Artest's dots. Who among the even moderately sound of mind honestly believes that "Love Connection" would have any chance of lasting longer than the first episode of "The Honeymooners"?

May I remind the promoters of that relationship this is the same Larry Brown who branded David Robinson a "coach killer" in his Spurs' infancy; the same Larry Brown who accused Dan Issel of having no heart; traded Bobby Jones for George McInnis; and wanted to trade Reggie Miller when success curdled in Indiana. And those were his most coachable players.

If Next Town Brown had problems with the exceptional, what makes any lucid philosopher conceptualize a misfit like Artest will be an exception? If Brown couldn't endure the flaws of the easiest guys to control, imagine how fast Artest's idiosyncrasies would have him scurrying like a toad to his next dream job.

On second thought, Artest is so Joe Don Looney he could turn Brown sane.

Fact is, we've never been distantly in danger of stirring that discovery process, much less studied it to see whether it's humanely possible. Their mixed marriage was never anything but a dead issue, though they do share at least one common denominator: Artest regularly takes leave of his senses, whereas Brown regularly takes leave.

Still, as repeatedly as Isiah Thomas starts afresh or breaks bread with those who've tormented, tortured or turned on him, the notion of reuniting with Artest is so unappealing he wouldn't give up Frederic Weis straight up.

I make this statement emphatically knowing what I know about their year-and-a-half Pacers association. Thomas found Artest so unmanageable, so disorderly, so inclined to do the opposite of what the situation called for, he seriously considered excluding him (and Ron Mercer) from the playoff roster in '02-03. A late season superior recital at the Garden forced him to change his mind, but not his opinion or a scheme to get rid of him.

Thomas and Jermaine O'Neal were very tight. As far as I know, they still are. Thomas always told his franchise player everything he wanted to hear and saved the negative evaluations for the ears of others. He also manipulated him to do his dirty work.

That summer O'Neal became a free agent. Before he re-signed, I wrote a column that charged him with trying to use his leverage (in conjunction with his distaste for Artest's irresponsibility, disruptive behavior and aloofness) to pressure management to trade Artest, Mercer and Jamaal Tinsley. It was clear who put him to it; Jermaine is too nice a person to pull such a Machiavellian stunt.

O'Neal was furious the story got out and denied its accuracy. Meanwhile, I got a frantic call from Thomas. He implored me to call O'Neal and convince him that he wasn't the source, which is true. I had no problem with that. I called the number Thomas gave me but O'Neal never called back.

I know I'm naive; but it seems to me anybody who'd go to that extreme to deport Artest and two others (Thomas' mistreatment of Tinsley is a sordid story for another day) from Indiana has no intention of importing him to New York,

Don't get me wrong! I absolutely concur with Thomas' position for all the obvious reasons. A day or so after Artest's starring role in the Malice at the Palace, I called Thomas to get his take. "That's what I'm talking about," he said. "You could see this coming. It was just a matter of when."

That's why half the NBA is petrified to add Artest to their mix despite a relatively inexpensive outlay. The Pacers know they can't get equal value, thus they're willing to accept a young talent or two vs. an established veteran in hopes of getting a deal done swiftly. Nobody's blaming Thomas for not wanting Artest. I just wish he'd come out and tell us what's really on his mind instead of making a grandstand call to Walsh, then have one of his flacks leak it to the press.

Thomas not only admitted reaching out to the Pacers, but talked about his untouchables. This doesn't strike people as unusual, an executive publicly discussing the particulars of a trade? That's how much grief Thomas must be getting throughout the city's corners and cubbyholes as a result of the Knicks' 6-15 eyesore of a record.

Again, it would've been infinitely more meaningful and manly had Thomas simply announced he wanted nothing to do with the compulsive-repulsive-impulsive Artest. Instead he made believe he tried to get someone habitually undependable.

"I know you had to make the call," said Walsh, the guy who hired him and didn't object when Larry Bird fired him three years later.

"I'm not prepared to trade any of my young players for Artest," Thomas remarked.

"Well, I don't want any of your other players," Walsh replied. "What else do you want to talk about?"

This was the extent of the enthused trade conversation between Thomas and Walsh.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/58862.htm

Bball
05-07-2006, 07:43 PM
And here's the follow-up, upon which you're basing your entire argument:

Pretty thin gruel, if you ask me.

I'm posting the whole piece above. I don't think it's thin gruel at all (tho I don't know what gruel is ;) ) when taken in the context of the whole column.

He also refutes your statement that Isiah liked Mercer.

-Bball

Anthem
05-07-2006, 07:55 PM
I'm posting the whole piece above. I don't think it's thin gruel at all (tho I don't know what gruel is ;) ) when taken in the context of the whole column.
To use a different food analogy, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If the first article is true, the second can't be.

He goes through and lambasts Jermaine as a petty, selfish player that's unable to lead. Then in the second article, he says Thomas must have MADE Jermaine demand the trade because Jermaine's "too nice" to do something like that on his own. So which is it?

If I was to believe one of these stories, I'd believe the first one. But they can't both be true.

Anthem
05-07-2006, 07:57 PM
I'm gonna need a link for that. The original Vescey story was just that Jermaine went to management to demand those trades, not that Jermaine was sent by Zeke.

So there may have been a new article I didn't notice, but I'm positive the original one didn't mention Thomas at all.
For those keeping score at home, this statement has been proven true. :devil:

Bball
05-07-2006, 08:18 PM
To use a different food analogy, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If the first article is true, the second can't be.

He goes through and lambasts Jermaine as a petty, selfish player that's unable to lead. Then in the second article, he says Thomas must have MADE Jermaine demand the trade because Jermaine's "too nice" to do something like that on his own. So which is it?

If I was to believe one of these stories, I'd believe the first one. But they can't both be true.

The two pieces dovetail. It just seems that more details came to light after Vecsey first broke that story. And that would make sense, afterall he reports Isiah called him because JO had gotten angry that the story had leaked.

I don't see enough of a difference in the articles to claim one refutes the other.

In any case, we appear to be believing that which suits our claims because we both seem to feel we were right after reading the article.

On another front... That earlier piece about JO was certainly interesting and more scathing than I remember.

-Bball

Anthem
05-07-2006, 08:26 PM
The two pieces dovetail. It just seems that more details came to light after Vecsey first broke that story.
There's no new info... it's speculation based on the fact that Jermaine was "too nice" to pull a stunt like that. Except that if we believe such a stunt was pulled, then we also believe Jermaine's NOT too nice.


In any case, we appear to be believing that which suits our claims because we both seem to feel we were right after reading the article.
Yeah, probably true.

Regardless, when you look at Thomas' history with Tinsley, it's going to take a lot more than a speculative reading of a sentence of a Vescey article to make me think Zeke dislikes Jamaal.

Bball
05-07-2006, 08:39 PM
Regardless, when you look at Thomas' history with Tinsley, it's going to take a lot more than a speculative reading of a sentence of a Vescey article to make me think Zeke dislikes Jamaal.


"(Thomas' mistreatment of Tinsley is a sordid story for another day)"

Maybe that 'other day' will come and I'll be able to point you to that link as well...

Of course you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him believe Vecsey...

Or something like that... ;)

-Bball

Anthem
05-07-2006, 08:48 PM
Maybe that 'other day' will come and I'll be able to point you to that link as well...

Of course you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him believe Vecsey...
You calling me a horse? :swordfigh

I'd love to hear how anybody would say Thomas wronged Tinsley. Thomas gave Tinsley whatever he wanted.

CableKC
05-07-2006, 09:25 PM
I dont konw how it can be done...but I seem to recall that Brendan Haywood with the Wizards was having some issues with Management and teh coaching staff....if we can find some way to do some type of trade for him....he would be a very solid Rebounding/Shot Blocking/ Defensive Big Man to start next to JONeal.

Kegboy
05-07-2006, 09:26 PM
I can't believe you two are arguing about Peter "throw **** against the wall and see what sticks" Vecsey. This is the same man that said the Lakers were gonna trade Shaq to the Clips, for god's sake.

:shakehead

vapacersfan
05-07-2006, 09:41 PM
I can't believe you two are arguing about Peter "throw **** against the wall and see what sticks" Vecsey. This is the same man that said the Lakers were gonna trade Shaq to the Clips, for god's sake.

:shakehead

Yes, he is generally full of *****, but he is correct more times then not when it comes to the Pacers.

I thought it was a general consencus here that he has had a inside source, maybe Donnie....

Hicks
05-07-2006, 09:51 PM
He typically knows what he's saying about the Pacers. Most recently, he announced the Peja trade before anyone else.

Anthem
05-07-2006, 10:12 PM
Yes, he is generally full of *****, but he is correct more times then not when it comes to the Pacers.

I thought it was a general consencus here that he has had a inside source, maybe Donnie....
Which wouldn't make sense in this case, because Donnie didn't know yet.

Unclebuck
05-07-2006, 10:23 PM
There is a big difference between predicting what trades will happen or reporting what trades are being discussed and reporting on something that occurred 3 years ago. So yes when Vescey reports on something that occurred 3 years ago, I believe every word that he writes

vapacersfan
05-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Which wouldn't make sense in this case, because Donnie didn't know yet.

Like I said, I just "thought" that everyone assumed he had a source.

I never actually knew who it was, and I dont think I have ever seen it really discussed here. I would assume it was Donnie, although I guess it could be anyone from Mark Jackson to Reggie to a ball boy.

Anthem
05-07-2006, 11:28 PM
There is a big difference between predicting what trades will happen or reporting what trades are being discussed and reporting on something that occurred 3 years ago. So yes when Vescey reports on something that occurred 3 years ago, I believe every word that he writes
Well, the sticking point is that he never out-and-out says that it was Zeke. He just insinuates that it must have been him, since Jermaine's too nice a guy to do such a thing.

If he'd come out and said "I happen to know that Thomas put Jermaine up to it" then it would be another story.

Bball
05-08-2006, 12:14 AM
Well, the sticking point is that he never out-and-out says that it was Zeke. He just insinuates that it must have been him, since Jermaine's too nice a guy to do such a thing.

If he'd come out and said "I happen to know that Thomas put Jermaine up to it" then it would be another story.

I don't think Vecsey intended anyone to come away from reading that and think he was simply 'insinuating' it must've been Thomas.

Read the paragraph prior:


Thomas and Jermaine O'Neal were very tight. As far as I know, they still are. Thomas always told his franchise player everything he wanted to hear and saved the negative evaluations for the ears of others. He also manipulated him to do his dirty work.

That summer O'Neal became a free agent. Before he re-signed, I wrote a column that charged him with trying to use his leverage (in conjunction with his distaste for Artest's irresponsibility, disruptive behavior and aloofness) to pressure management to trade Artest, Mercer and Jamaal Tinsley. It was clear who put him to it; Jermaine is too nice a person to pull such a Machiavellian stunt.

If you don't want to believe him, fine... but IMHO it's a reach if you are going to hang your argument on him not being entirely clear it's Thomas he's talking about or that he has some doubt in the statement. It's just Vecsey's writing style.

-Bball

Anthem
05-08-2006, 12:18 AM
It's just Vecsey's writing style.
Vescey's style is to claim a "source" for everything. If he hears something on NBATV, he calls it a "source." His sources aren't always legit, but he's almost never legit when he DOESN'T claim a source.

And he doesn't claim one here.

Bball
05-08-2006, 01:05 AM
Vescey's style is to claim a "source" for everything. If he hears something on NBATV, he calls it a "source." His sources aren't always legit, but he's almost never legit when he DOESN'T claim a source.

And he doesn't claim one here.

Ok... There's no end to this. The proverbial goalposts keep moving.

First, you needed to see the article for yourself to believe it existed. Upon your finding the article, the comment that was at the heart of this you called 'thin gruel'.

Then I posted the complete article which contains some other comments and gives things more weight but then you say he doesn't say it was Thomas, he merely insinuates it might've been.


Well, the sticking point is that he never out-and-out says that it was Zeke. He just insinuates that it must have been him, since Jermaine's too nice a guy to do such a thing.

If he'd come out and said "I happen to know that Thomas put Jermaine up to it" then it would be another story.

Then I post an additional paragraph from the article which, when added to the comment in question, would seem to clear things that he's talking about Thomas specifically. Meanwhile, others post that Vecsey can be accurate when talking about the Pacers and also can be considered accurate when talking about an incident 3 years prior (and that Vecsey has a 'source').

So you create a new 'sticking point':


Vescey's style is to claim a "source" for everything. If he hears something on NBATV, he calls it a "source." His sources aren't always legit, but he's almost never legit when he DOESN'T claim a source.

And he doesn't claim one here.

I think I have to give it up... I'm chasing my tail. As I said in the other reply... I'm fine if you just want to say you don't believe Vecsey. That would've saved us both a lot of time. :-p

-Bball

Robertmto
05-08-2006, 09:16 AM
I dont konw how it can be done...but I seem to recall that Brendan Haywood with the Wizards was having some issues with Management and teh coaching staff....if we can find some way to do some type of trade for him....he would be a very solid Rebounding/Shot Blocking/ Defensive Big Man to start next to JONeal.

I'd give up Brendan Haywood for David Harrison and your 2007 first rounder.

Anthem
05-08-2006, 10:42 AM
I'd give up Brendan Haywood for David Harrison and your 2007 first rounder.
Second-rounder, and I'd probably do it.

Gamble
05-08-2006, 11:25 AM
I really dislike Haywood's rebounding and he is awfully slow.

Shade
05-08-2006, 11:34 AM
No, Haywood is terrible. And I've seen a lot of Wizards games lately, so that's an educated opinion.

Skaut_Ech
05-08-2006, 12:22 PM
Free Agents (along with a possibility meter ranging from 1-10)

Antonio Davis (7)
Kelvin Cato (7)
Nazr Mohommed (6)
Ervin Johnson (6)
Lorenzen Wright (6)
Loren Woods (5)
Joel Pryzbilla (5)
Jake Voskuhl (5)
Greg Ostertag (4)
Michael Olowokandi (4)
Nene (3)
Alonzo Mourning (2)
Ben Wallace (1)



Nene is the only one in the "upper echelon", I'd want, but that would take some doing. The others...I'll take a pass for various reasons.


In the draft I don't really like any of the big men that much who we have a shot at, atleast not compared to some of the swingmen. The only big man I really like is Tiago Splitter. I like Boone and Gray too but not compared to a guy like Rudy Fernandez.

As for trades, DeSagana Diop would be a solid acquisition. Solid defender and shot blocking skills, Still young too and cheap.

Brian Skinner is another possiability. Good defender and worker. A little overpaid though IMO.


I think Rommie brought up two very viable names whom I think would really work out here: Diop & Skinner. Diop would be a nice catch, but I think Dallas is going to keep him. On that same note, DJ MBenga would be great for us. I think he's in the same situation Jermaine was, buried on the bench, not able to show his stuff. With Diop emerging and Erick entrenched, Diop is going to be a free agent. Do some checking on him. I swear he's the proverbial diamond in the rough. Plus

I also like the Skinner idea.


No, Haywood is terrible. And I've seen a lot of Wizards games lately, so that's an educated opinion.

Yeah, Haywood had one good season, then starting playing cluless and never stopped. He let Etan Thomas, no world beater, take his starting spot time and again.

There's also some guys who aren't even in the NBA right now like who might be a low cost fit. Jahidi White got squeezed out in Cleveland, but could serve our purposes with his width and baby bull style of play.

Jose Slaughter
05-08-2006, 12:52 PM
Hey Scott

Whats your thoughts on Kasun?

Skaut_Ech
05-08-2006, 01:43 PM
Actually, as you've probably guessed. I've thought of him a time or two. My hunch on him is that he's going to be a monster in the old school NBA, low post banger, chest thumping, center of the past, kind of way.

He's attitude with size and I like that. He's got a swagger. I haven't gotten to see him much, but what I've seen is erratic play. I can't figure out why he didn't break into the starter rotation with the stiffs on Orlando's roster. I know he was, or is injured at some point, but I see quite a bit coming from him, given the right situation. But him not breaking into the rotation troubles me. I never looked into it-bad coaching? Coach favorites? Injury? I dunno.

I actually was going to list him, but didn't want my zeal, as I've had in the past for Nenad and Maceo, to sway me.

Okay, screw it. I'll put it out there. Mario would be on my very short list of free agent centers for us to look at along with DJ. Very short list.

He'd give Jermaine someone to hide behind to make himself look tougher when he's trying to give those bad *** faces he tries on every once and a while.

(Now I'm talking in terms of lost cost guys with something to prove, who show impact talent.)

Like Peck and numerous others have said, we haven't had an enforcer since Dale left. I think Mario would be that guy. Plus, he's got some game. Not especially great at any one thing, but an all around guy who may be able to give a little of whatever is needed.

What do YOU think of him, Jose? You think I'm way off base?

Jose Slaughter
05-08-2006, 03:26 PM
I'll have to bow to your judgement here. I might have seen him in one game but he didn't get enough playing time for me to base any kind of opinion on.

From what I've read he's still in the Magic's plans, but that could just be TPTB in Orlando blowing smoke up the medias butt.

I will agree that, considering who the Magic used at center last season, it was odd that Kasun saw as little time as he did. Granted he was set back my one little injury after another last year, but still.

I doubt Orlando is going to give up on him so easily, especially with their #1 last season screwin' them like he did.

Robertmto
05-08-2006, 03:26 PM
Second-rounder, and I'd probably do it.

You got urself a deal.

SoupIsGood
05-08-2006, 11:31 PM
Second-rounder, and I'd probably do it.


:alcohol:

SoupIsGood
05-08-2006, 11:32 PM
Nene is the only one in the "upper echelon", I'd want, but that would take some doing. The others...I'll take a pass for various reasons.




I think Rommie brought up two very viable names whom I think would really work out here: Diop & Skinner. Diop would be a nice catch, but I think Dallas is going to keep him. On that same note, DJ MBenga would be great for us. I think he's in the same situation Jermaine was, buried on the bench, not able to show his stuff. With Diop emerging and Erick entrenched, Diop is going to be a free agent. Do some checking on him. I swear he's the proverbial diamond in the rough. Plus

I also like the Skinner idea.



Yeah, Haywood had one good season, then starting playing cluless and never stopped. He let Etan Thomas, no world beater, take his starting spot time and again.

There's also some guys who aren't even in the NBA right now like who might be a low cost fit. Jahidi White got squeezed out in Cleveland, but could serve our purposes with his width and baby bull style of play.

I've always liked Diop a lot, even when he was fat and in Cleveland.

What do you see in MBenga that makes you like him so? I don't think I've ever watched him.


Also - I know I say this every offseason, but I really wish we could get Kendrick Perkins.

Anthem
05-08-2006, 11:46 PM
:alcohol:
Probably.

But assuming the coach stays the same, I'd rather have a center that Carlisle would actually play than a center who's got the potential to be better but never gets off the bench.

BoomBaby31
05-09-2006, 02:27 AM
NAZR MOHHAMED NAZR MOHHAMED NAZR MOHHAMED NAZR MOHHAMED THATS ALL I HAVE TO WRITE NAZR MOHHAMED NAZR MOHHAMED NAZR MOHAMMED (I THINK i MISPELLED HIS NAME EVERYTIME BUT NAZR MOHHAMED :)>>).. One more thing There was an article in the L.A times also on the Real GM site saying Chirs Mihm is probably going to be the odd man out come next season and he most likely will be traded. I think we should go after him if he is completely healthy we don't need anymore guys in suits looking pretty. but, otherwise NAZR MOHHAMED

I had no idea Ben Wallace was a free agent at the end of this year wow that ******* is going to pull in alot of money but, not for the pacer organization :)

SoupIsGood
05-09-2006, 06:45 AM
Nazr is not the answer

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2006, 07:56 AM
I've always liked Diop a lot, even when he was fat and in Cleveland.

What do you see in MBenga that makes you like him so? I don't think I've ever watched him.


Also - I know I say this every offseason, but I really wish we could get Kendrick Perkins.

I am soOOo with you on Kendrick. :rockon:It's funny you mentioned him because he falls into line with the kind of guy I want for us at center: an enforcer. That's why I like someone like Kasun. Kendrick can be in that same mold. I don't see Kendrick as an all-star, but one of those key guys who helps make you a tougher team. I think in 2-3 years, you'll hear Kendrick's name a lot.

As for MBenga, I just saw him two games. Dampier was out with fouls and DJ got some minutes. He's really enthusiastic on the court, but like Harrison, he can pick up fouls in a heartbeat. Difference between David and DJ is that DJ seems to progressively get smarter about his play. On top of it, DJ is 7'0, but plays very athletic. Not athletic for a big man, just plain athletic.

I started keeping tabs on him because I saw some real potential in him. From what I've read, he's receptive to coaching and plays with the proverbial chip on his shoulder.

I really liked what I saw in him. He stays around the basket, loves to shot block and is aggressive. I suspect that all he needs is some solid coaching to bring him out. With Dallas stockpiling centers, he just couldn't grab any PT. Because of the fantasy league some of us PDers participate in, I've been eyeing him as a pick-up next year depending on his situation, so I got pretty familiar what they were saying about him in the Dallas News.

Thought you may find this of interest:

http://mavsmaniac.blogspot.com/2006/04/dj-mbenga_14.html

When your backstory includes being convicted to death, being recruited from a bus stop and living in a refugee center - Didier (DJ) Ilunga-Mbenga (MBenga) went surprisingly under the radar in his short stint in the Belgian league.

And with Free Agency looming, it's likely DJ MBenga (right) won't find his way back to Texas.

Born again DeSagana Diop has worked himself into the starting lineup with his ferocious defense and died again Erick Dampier still consistently gets minutes as Dallas' strongest big man. The man to set a screen if need, or to pound a player who's getting out of line.

And as fitting as this saying ever was, considering Texas' cowboy heritage, This (team) ain't big enough for the (4) of us". Not forgetting project Pavel Podkolzin who is doing diddily-squat in the D-League, who unfortunately is signed for longer. DJ seems to be the odd man out, some team can offer him just a big a contract as Dallas, but more playing time.

If you were to look at his NBA profile, you'd think he's a worthless scrub - but to the Mavericks fan who bleed blue (lately, it could be green judging by the popularity of the alternatives) every minute he plays is scrutinized and over analysed, like the popular TV show Lost (those who watch know what I'm saying).

Lately, Avery Johnson has made more and more faith in him. In his rookie season, DJ played more than 10 minutes once, and in appeared in a huge 15 games totalling 41 minutes. This season, DJ has almost (read: almost) cracking into the regular rotation.

MBenga was a late bloomer, and I don't mean puberty, because from the looks of it he hasn't stop developing since he was 8, he didn't get into basketball until apparently he was 20 (give or take). To show for that, he has a very raw offensive game which is slowly moving into 13 foot jumpers - he is foul prone and falls for headfakes. So what's to like? Everyone likes the amazingly gifted athlete, throw in the fact he is a foreigner and has an amusing name and he should stick around the NBA for a while.

The Belgian / Congo native was born in the same town as Dikembe Mutombo (something in the water?) and has developed a bond with him. Showing himself as a raw Dikembe, with shotblocking talent, basketball instinct that isn't taught and a tough-rugged attitude, DJ MBenga is progressing in leaps and strides, jumping into play lately.

In the last three games, DJ has played more than ten minutes twice - averaging an extremely respectable 3.2 ppg / 3.2 rpg / .5 bpg in 8 minutes. Don't get too overwhelmed.

So when Dallas is facing the pressures of re-signing starting PG Jason "Jet" Terry, a little Congonese voice should be in the back of their minds reminding them of his potential.

In a league where anyone can turn into a valuable contributor, big athletic men like DJ MBenga should be watched and scouted.

"DJ Mbenga has to stop fouling when he walks in the gym," said coach Johnson.

D-BONE
05-09-2006, 07:59 AM
Best names from FA list (no particular order):
Nazr, Pryzbilla, Nene

Best others mentioned:
Etan Thomas, Diop, Mbenga, Magloire (no particular order)

P.S.-Harrison for Thomas + a 2nd round pick??? Whoa! I think we'd be getting duped there.

P.S.-If we tried to pry Mbenga from the Mavs, wonder if we could squeak out a PG somehow? What are they planning to do on the Terry sweepstakes front? I suspect an aspiring youngster like Harris is off limits? Armstrong seems all but over the hill to me. Not too excited about him.

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2006, 08:17 AM
P.S.-If we tried to pry Mbenga from the Mavs, wonder if we could squeak out a PG somehow? What are they planning to do on the Terry sweepstakes front? I suspect an aspiring youngster like Harris is off limits? Armstrong seems all but over the hill to me. Not too excited about him.

Actually, to be honest, I'd like to see us make two moves this off-season. One would be a BIG trade where we bring in an impact player. Two, would be to make a trade with Dallas for MBenga and Armstrong. They both should come at a relative low cost unless Dallas plays hardball with DJ.

What I like about Darrell is that he hasn't been worn down by a bunch of minutes, so he's fresher than you'd think. What makes him most appealing is that he is a leader. This team needs some character guys and he's one of the best in the league. I also like that his forte is defense. I've brought this up before, but I will never forget him crying in frustration when the Magic got tore up by injury and just missed the playoffs. It's wasn;t a boo-hoo, woe is me cry, it was one of those I want to compete and am frustrated jags. That really said something to me about his determination.

You got to remember, this is a guy who can shift gears from being a scoring PG to a passing PG fairly easily and I think he typifies veteran influence. I don't want him for big minutes. Just a guy to steady the ship when needed, play 15 minutes or so and teach our PGs how to play..well, PG.

As to his age, check out this list and look at their ages. Look how many of thses guys we've talked about wanting. Look at their ages. (SAm Cassell should immediately jump out at you.


Players older than 33.0
Player B-day Age
1. Dikembe Mutombo (Hou) ........... 6/25/66 39.534
2. Clifford Robinson (NJ) .......... 12/16/66 39.058
3. Ervin Johnson (Mil) ............. 12/21/67 38.044
4. Darrell Armstrong (Dal) ......... 6/22/68 37.542
5. Gary Payton (Mia) ............... 7/23/68 37.458
6. Stacey Augmon (Orl) ............. 8/1/68 37.433
7. Toni Kukoc (Mil) ................ 9/18/68 37.301
8. Antonio Davis (NY) .............. 10/31/68 37.184
9. Dale Davis (Det) ................ 3/25/69 36.786
10. Jon Barry (Hou) ................. 7/25/69 36.452
11. P.J. Brown (NY) ................. 10/14/69 36.230
12. Sam Cassell (LAC) ............... 11/18/69 36.134
13. Alonzo Mourning (Mia) ........... 2/8/70 35.910
14. Robert Horry (SA) ............... 8/25/70 35.367

I bet Terry and Harris are off limits, don't you? No reason to break up that tandem.
</pre>

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2006, 08:47 AM
I doubt you solve your center problems through FA.

Here's a suggestion - and I haven't seen them play. Assuming you're taking the long term view, I'd be having conversations with Seattle. I already think a Peja for Lewis S&T makes sense for both teams. Seattle's afraid of losing Lewis for nothing because he'll want a max contract after next season and Lewis is a better player for Indy IMO.

Figure out what kind of throw-in you need to get either Petro or Swift. It doesn't make a lot of sense for the Sonics to keep both of them - 2 raw, athletic shotblockers without much offensive game(yet). But obviously they see some potential because each got minutes at the end of the season and put up some numbers.

Someone from the WC who's seen them play (and has an idea what Seattle's thinking) would need to comment on this but you're talking about shotblockers who don't need the ball and would be able to roam the paint, set screens, rebound, etc.

If you want to win next year you don't do this. If you're going back to the Big P, it's worth looking at IMO.

Rinuven
05-09-2006, 09:32 AM
Rick Smits, anyone? :)

Yeah, looking at this list, I can't help but think we'd be better off trying to develop Harrison and add a couple of wrinkles to how we use our centers on offense.

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2006, 09:39 AM
I've thought since the draft that Petro would be the more complete player, but Swift had that little surge late season that made me wonder.

I think Seattle realizes they are in the proverbial catbird seat reference their bigs. I like your proposal and it makes more sense in a lot of ways, than keeping Peja. we get a younger guy, who plays more in the style of Danny, so there is not as abrupt a change on court for our team.

Man, that would be nice if we could pull that and imho, get Petro, not Swift, in the deal.

Makes a lot of sense to me, Rim.

microwave_oven
05-09-2006, 11:50 AM
Second-rounder, and I'd probably do it.

Does anyone remember when Jamaal Tinsley was our third point guard? Rick basically made him earn the starting job. He is now doing the same w/ David Harrison. I for one am not ready to give up on a project after only two years. Most NBA players aren't completely ready for 4 or 5 years. We need to be patient, something most of us don't understand. (Edit: don't be patient w/ Jamaal or Jax anymore)

Mourning
05-09-2006, 05:01 PM
Good noticing DK, I had completely forgotten about Lewis and the young bigmen on the Sonics. Take a guess as to what exactly it would take to get Lewis and one of the two?

It would be superb IF we wouldn't have to give up half our squad. Is Seattle still guard-heavy like they used to be? I mean they lost Flip. Anyone else they might lose or have already lost in a trade recently, besides Radmanovic?
Guess what I am saying is ... would they need a SG or a PG?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Mourning
05-09-2006, 05:04 PM
One question about getting Lewis would be ... how are we going to handle the small ultra fast SG/PG's in this league? Assuming we put Petro/Harrisson at centre, Jermaine at PF, Lewis at SF and Granger for part time minutes at SF and the same for SG.

Our PF and SF would be ideal though, man!

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

D-BONE
05-09-2006, 05:14 PM
One question about getting Lewis would be ... how are we going to handle the small ultra fast SG/PG's in this league? Assuming we put Petro/Harrisson at centre, Jermaine at PF, Lewis at SF and Granger for part time minutes at SF and the same for SG.

Our PF and SF would be ideal though, man!

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

This doesn't sound all bad to me either. Maybe we could acquire a proverbial perimeter defensive specialist. Somebody like a Trenton Hassel-type really for the sole purpose matching up in those cases.

Seems we'd be particularly vunlerable to quick SGs. DG could do a serviceable job there I suppose. In order to get him significant time at 2 he really has to upgrade in driving the ball to the hoop for scores, as many here have suggested.

SoupIsGood
05-09-2006, 05:21 PM
I would like to nab Hassel to be a backup for us.

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2006, 05:56 PM
Good noticing DK, I had completely forgotten about Lewis and the young bigmen on the Sonics. Take a guess as to what exactly it would take to get Lewis and one of the two?

It would be superb IF we wouldn't have to give up half our squad. Is Seattle still guard-heavy like they used to be? I mean they lost Flip. Anyone else they might lose or have already lost in a trade recently, besides Radmanovic?
Guess what I am saying is ... would they need a SG or a PG?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Dunno - if they're as worried about just losing Lewis as they seem to be a straight up S&T for Peja would work - Lewis makes (I think) close to 11 and I think Peja may be able to get 10.

If he had another year or two on his contract you might get there by taking Fortson off their hands but his deal expires after next year. So that brings in draft picks. Of course Foster's the eternal trade fodder but I don't think he's worth much any more.

It's hard to see a monster need with them. They have Ridnour & Watson so they're OK at PG - enough to not want Tinsley anyway. They have Ray at SG and Peja would play SF. I assume they're gonna keep Wilcox (if they don't they may decide to keep Lewis after all).

Will Galen
05-09-2006, 07:23 PM
Why would we trade Peja for Lewis just because Seattle is afraid they will lose Lewis? Doing that trade would give us the same problem we have now with Peja and Danny. Yeah, they are going to TRY Danny at SG, and it's obvious he will be able to guard some people there. However what kills us are fast speedy guards and he won't be able to handle them anymore than Artest could.

If we were going to trade with Seattle I would rather trade Peja for Ray Allen, but of couse Seattle doesn't need two SF's either. A better idea is to make it a three way trade. Say add Boston and Pierce to the mix.

I haven't looked at the numbers but it would make more sense than trading Peja for Lewis. Peja opens up the floor for JO. Lewis is just a more experienced player than what we have in Danny.

owl
05-09-2006, 09:36 PM
Ray Allen does not play defense so he would not help out at the
perimeter. This team has to decide what they want to be.
Rebuilding or re-tooling. If re-tooling get some veterans on the team
and cast off Tinsley. Jackson probably will have to stay. Bring in
AD for Pollard unless he comes real cheap. This team is a mess and
it is hard to figure out what they are going to do. TPTB probably
don't know what they are going to do either. It depends on other teams
and what they want and who other teams draft also.

owl

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Why would we trade Peja for Lewis just because Seattle is afraid they will lose Lewis? Doing that trade would give us the same problem we have now with Peja and Danny. Yeah, they are going to TRY Danny at SG, and it's obvious he will be able to guard some people there. However what kills us are fast speedy guards and he won't be able to handle them anymore than Artest could.

If we were going to trade with Seattle I would rather trade Peja for Ray Allen, but of couse Seattle doesn't need two SF's either. A better idea is to make it a three way trade. Say add Boston and Pierce to the mix.

I haven't looked at the numbers but it would make more sense than trading Peja for Lewis. Peja opens up the floor for JO. Lewis is just a more experienced player than what we have in Danny.

Lewis shoots nearly as good from 3 as Peja, he's a much better slasher and better defender - when he wants to be. He's about twice the player Peja is, and younger and healthier.

The question is, who in the world WOULDN'T trade Peja for Lewis?

Anthem
05-10-2006, 12:47 AM
The question is, who in the world WOULDN'T trade Peja for Lewis?
I'm guessing Larry Bird. But that's just me.

DisplacedKnick
05-10-2006, 06:57 AM
I'm guessing Larry Bird. But that's just me.

And maybe someone else comes up with a better offer. Heck, maybe they keep him - but every Seattle article I read has at least something about them not being able to afford what they think his price will be next summer and them being afraid of losing him for nothing.

owl
05-10-2006, 07:05 AM
This doesn't sound all bad to me either. Maybe we could acquire a proverbial perimeter defensive specialist. Somebody like a Trenton Hassel-type really for the sole purpose matching up in those cases.

Seems we'd be particularly vunlerable to quick SGs. DG could do a serviceable job there I suppose. In order to get him significant time at 2 he really has to upgrade in driving the ball to the hoop for scores, as many here have suggested.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

One thing I do know is and that is this Pacers team is slow. Especially on the
perimeter. If they do this they need to draft a quick pg who can defend
well and dribble penetrate at will.
The only guard that seems to have those attributes is Rondo. In the second
they could get Terrell Everett, if his head is right. Heck, they should do
this regardless of what else they do.


owl

Gamble
05-10-2006, 10:01 AM
I think if you want to get faster than don't resign Peja, play
Granger at the 3, resign Fred to a reasonalble contract and
trade for a serviceable pg or 2. I doubt we could get Jason Terry
but he would be ideal in Ricks C. system.

I highly doubt we could plug the huge hole defensively with this
draft.