PDA

View Full Version : Hicks surmises the 2006 Indiana Pacers heading into the offseason



Hicks
05-04-2006, 10:48 PM
Now that our offseason has begun, it's time to take a look at what we have. We need to make a couple of big changes, and possibly more depending on the attitudes left in the locker room. It may not end with the players, either. A time of change is upon us, and all we can do is pray TPTB make the right calls. Below are all of the current Pacers, and where I'd like to see them head to. After them comes Rick Carlisle.

Who I want to keep:

Danny Granger
------------------
How do you not keep this kid. Hell, not only keep, you start and let him blossom as the starting Small Forward of the future (and practically the present already). All he needs to develop is some drives to the basket, and he can do it all. I could rave about him for a looong time.

Sarunas Jasikevicius
------------------
I think Sarunas gets too much flak. I understand why people don't like him, but I can't stand to see such venom for a 1st year player, 30 or not. I think if you put him at the 1, where he belongs, and he gets his confidence back, combined with a better understanding of the league, he still has a chance of being an OK player in the league. I still believe in him, but it won't happen if he isn't given the chance to play where he's comfortable. HE IS NOT A SHOOTING GUARD. PERIOD!

Anthony Johnson
------------------
No, I'm not just saying this because of his 40 point game. (Damn, how nuts is it to read that? Not as much as typing it!) AJ is not a starter. Not for a serious contender. I'm happy to keep him as a backup, but I'll always take issue with how often he handles & shoots the ball instead of passing or getting the team going offensively. But you know what, it may be the coach as much as it is him.

Scot Pollard
------------------
Scot is the closest thing left to a Warrior around here. He's tough, he boxes out, he battles, he plays defense, and he gives it his all, even when hurt. Combine that with his fun attitude and wit, and I think you have to try to re-sign him for the minimum or so. A good locker room guy too, I'd wager. I really like Scot.

Eddie Gill
------------------
Not a pretty basketball game, but for what he does bring, plus his great attitude, who better to be the emergency PG on any team? You can't do any better for this role, so you keep him.

Who I could take or leave:

Jermaine O'Neal
------------------
I'm done pretending he's a contender's #1 guy. Done. He is not, nor will he ever be a champion by his own merit. He will follow someone else to a title. I think he's closer to Antonio McDyess than he is Tim Duncan. A great talent, but not the guy to carry you to the promise land. THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU FOOLISHLY TRADE HIM. The ONLY reason you do that is if you get a BETTER guy in here to be Batman, and he can't mentally handle that being taken away from him. If he can learn to be the #2 guy to a stud wingman or guard, I'm more than happy to hold onto him. He's still a good guy, he still tries to be his best, but he'll never be a superstar player.

Peja Stojakovic
------------------
He did nothing to help himself in this series. He's a great shooter, he's not as limited at everything else as people think, and I think he'd be an asset. But I've heard through the grape vine he doesn't like Rick, and that this team's lack or professionalism really turned him off, and I don't blame him for either of those. I do blame him, however, if this had anything to do with him sitting out so many games. WE HAVE NO PROOF THAT HE DID. So let's try not to put our "conspiracy caps" too quickly on this. My guess? It's more likely he simply felt he couldn't move well enough to get open or do much of anything. I think with a diff. coach he may shine here, but then you have to think about his role with Danny Granger on the team. I'd rather have Granger start next year. Would Peja handle being a bench player? It's probably as likely as Jermaine handling being Robin in a Pacer uniform, unfortunately. At this point I just hope we find a team this summer that could really use a guy like Peja that has a player we could use, and make a deal. Nice having you Peja, but it's just not going to work.

Austin Croshere
------------------
Austin really disappointed me in this series. Just absolutely worthless when he wasn't hot from downtown. But how much of that is Austin Croshere and how much of that is Rick Carlisle saying "You are out there to spread the floor"? I wouldn't be shocked if that's the real reason he was so 1-dimensional. Not that he was ever a multi-layered offensive player, but he wasn't even crashing the boards in this series, or moving around a whole heck of a lot. I've seen a lot more from Austin, and I'm not convinced what we saw in this series is the "new" Cro. He has an expiring contract now, and if you can get something good for him, you do it, but I would be satisfied with re-signing him next summer for a small contract. Austin Croshere being a Pacer for life wouldn't offend me at all.

Jeff Foster
------------------
It seems Jeff is starting to physically break down. That doesn't mean he still can't play effective basketball for years to come, but he's not what he used to be. I find him to be worthless in the playoffs against any team with size, and he's always been a 0 offensively, which is a big liability whenever he's expected to be a starter. We need to find somebody that puts him on the bench. I could really take him or leave him. No, let me put it this way: As a backup, I'll take him. As a starter, I'll leave him.

David Harrison
------------------
David is struggling. I don't know if he will ever "get it" or not. I agree with those that have said it's time to let him sink or swim. Give him the starting spot, give him 25+ minutes, and let him foul out with 6 fouls instead of 4. That's the only way to absolutley know for sure if he's what we're looking for, or if it's time to cut bait. I love the way he takes up space, which helps us out on both sides of the floor, but he must become more disciplined defensively, and he must learn to drop his issues with the refs. Only then will he conquer his foul issues, by improving his reputation as he gains more experience in his 3rd year.

Who I want to see gone:

Jamaal Tinsley
------------------
First of all, forget the speculation on his attitude, though I've seen enough smoke that I think there's some truth to it. My issues with Tinsley are first and foremost his health, which he rarely has, and his game. He can be brilliant, absolutley brilliant. Then he turns the intelligent half of his brain off and his skill doesn't know what to do with itself as he turns the ball over, gets lazy fouls, goes one-on-one too much, and gets technical fouls and pisses off the other team. In the end he is simply too unreliable to stay. He needs to go.

Stephen Jackson
------------------
I've come so far with Stephen. I was high on him when we traded for him, and as the 2004-05 season started. But ever since he came back from the 30-game suspension from the brawl, he's never quite been the same. His dark side has shown, far too often, and it is ugly. As much as it's said he gets along with everybody, I think he just as often will go over-the-top pissed off on anyone and everyone in that locker room, and that's a distraction no team needs, certainly not one interested in a deep playoff run or a championship. And I haven't even talked about his game yet. For every hot shooting night, he'll have 4 bad ones. His defense is good to very good at times, but other nights he gets lazy. When he holds onto the ball for more than 3-4 seconds, something bad is almost guarunteed to happen. It's ugly. He's also a turnover waiting to happen, and he makes lazy passes and takes shots at inopportune times/places. All that adds up to someone who is never the answer as the starting 2 on a team looking for glory. Goodbye, Jack.

Fred Jones
------------------
And we come to Freddy Jones. Honestly he doesn't deserve to be associated with the two bozos above him, but I don't want him back either. He may be OK as the backup two, and I'm very tempted to put him back in the "take or leave" section, but he's been a one-trick pony for a while now, and I doubt he ever learns to not jump to pass, or to drive left, or to know when and when not to take shots. Love his attitude, love his enthusiasm, love it when he brings the house down on the opponent with a furious stuff. Pretty good D, but he's too short to slow down the greats or even the very atheletic that have more than 2 inches on him. We could do worse for a backup 2, though. This is the part where I almost said I was going to move him back into the "take or leave" section, but then I remembered. He's gonna want to get paid bigger $$$ this off-season, and a team desperate for a SG will give it to him. He is NOT worth overpaying to keep, and thus he remains in the "I want them gone" section.

Let's talk about Rick Carlisle:
Let me get this out of the way: Rick Carlisle is a great coach. You will not find many who are flat-out better than he is.

However, he has flaws and they are serious. His offensive strategy is a joke. It's counter-productive, it's un-exciting, and practically every player he's coached, good egg or bad, has one time or another complained about it, and for good reason. It's a prevent offense, and it needs to go. He also seems to grind on his players. Maybe the offense is why, maybe it goes deeper than that. But without proof I won't go into speculation here. Defensively, he's pretty good. But I think he tries to make tempo too much of a factor, and it kills the offense. At this point, I think the players and the fans need a fresh start on the offensive side of the ball, and if Rick can't or won't do that, you either hire an assistant coach who will, or you fire Rick Carlisle. Think very hard before you cheer in agreement. Firing Rick is a dangerous move to make. There may not be anyone nearly as good out there to replace him with, so warts and all he may be the best thing we can have right now, and if that's the case you have to think very seriously about holding onto him until an opportunity presents itself.

Vision of the Future:
This team needs a LOT of work. Next year, the changes must be enough that we as fans along with the team feels like it is a true fresh start. Enough so that the past two years are dead and gone, and this new season will be independent of those two seasons, for good or bad. It must feel like a new team, even if 2/3s of the players are back. TPTB need to pick a tyle and mold the team to fit it. Right now we have a cube coach and a bunch of sphere players. Something must give. I think our offense needs a ton of work, so I'd start there. We need a creator, but we could always use better shooters, too.

What do I really want:
What I really want are guard that are fast, quick, can score around the basket, and can control the ball (read: not turn it over so damn much). We have a slow backcourt and it kills us on both sides of the ball. If we get some fast guards we can ball-hawk on defense, and we can get better penetration on offense, which will open up a lot of opportunities for everyone on this team. We could always use better big men. If there's a player even resembling Dale Davis in this draft, we need to pick him. A true tough (read: not a cheap-shot, flopping, fake-tough) guy in the paint would be huge for this team. You need that or a Brad Miller type of center (who's tough enough in his own right, but he's no Dale Davis in that department by a long shot) to put next to Jermaine O'Neal for him to flourish. He must have pressure taken off of him, or he'll fail and break down. A fast/quick/finishing guard is my #1 wish, a bruiser bigman #2.

Do heads need to role in upper-management?
Some of you are going to suggest Donnie Walsh and/or Larry Bird need to go, and you'd be wrong. Especially if you want DW gone. You can hate their flaws. You can hate that people defend those flaws to epic fanboy proportions, but you can never let that blind you to the overwhelming good he brings to this franchise. The odds of us finding someone better for the Pacers is much less likely than finding a better coach than Rick, and that's not looking promising either. No, neither should go. Donnie Walsh for what he's done and can still do, Larry Bird because he's still got time to shine in the future. I think he should get a 2-3 year grace period FREE OF WALSH before he's truly considered a hot-seat GM. Right now it's an odd tandem that you don't often see, and until DW is gone you can't truly judge Larry yet. People LOVE to hate Bird because of his past as a player, as a man, and his obnoxious Indy fans in the 80's/90's, but this is a new day, and a new role. It's time to hope for the best, even in all of your doubts, because it's too soon to make a huge decision like firing the guy. He and Donnie need to stick around.

D-BONE
05-04-2006, 10:52 PM
Walsh and Bird gone requests are not that extreme. Ultimately, they are responsable for this assembalge of players.

Agree that JO is not a #1 on a contender but could be a dominant contedning #2.

Young
05-04-2006, 10:54 PM
I can't really say I disagree with much of anything you said. Good post.

Moses
05-04-2006, 10:57 PM
Agree with 99% of the post. The only thing I disagree about is Fred Jones because it really all depends on how he does in the off-season. If he could learn to use his other hand, he could become one of the dominant SGs in this league..but until he does that he's always going to be a TO prone SG who can only go in one direction. Other then that, that's exactly how I, and many others feel about this team.

Unclebuck
05-04-2006, 11:00 PM
I love Rick as coach, but if he is not the coach anymore I could live with that for two reasons. I'm am sicker than I can explain of the constant b*tching about his offense. I'm just sick and tired of the complaints. Secondly, we do need a new culture.

I cannot foresee any possiblity or scenerio where JT and jax can or will come back next season

I think J.O is 50-50 right now.

Freddie is probably 75% chance he's gone.

Obviously Gill and Pollard are gone.

Foster might get traded in a package and the same with Cro because with his expiring contract he has some trade value for the 1st time in 6 years.

Harrison I hope is gone, he might have some trade value, same with Saras, I would look to trade him.

Wow, so who's left. Granger and AJ. Championship here we come.

That is just off the top of my head.

sweabs
05-04-2006, 11:01 PM
Jermaine O'Neal
------------------
I'm done pretending he's a contender's #1 guy. Done. He is not, nor will he ever be a champion by his own merit. He will follow someone else to a title. I think he's closer to Antonio McDyess than he is Tim Duncan. A great talent, but not the guy to carry you to the promise land. THAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU FOOLISHLY TRADE HIM. The ONLY reason you do that is if you get a BETTER guy in here to be Batman, and he can't mentally handle that being taken away from him. If he can learn to be the #2 guy to a stud wingman or guard, I'm more than happy to hold onto him. He's still a good guy, he still tries to be his best, but he'll never be a superstar player.

Welcome to the club.

Seriously though, the more I look at the situation, the more closely it comes to resemble what happened with Vince Carter in Toronto. He's a very good player, but just not capable of being a Number One guy within the offensive framework on a championship-calibur team. He's not a primary option in that regard, nor is he a guy who is suited to being the number one leader. These are the same things that were brought up at the end of Vince's stint in Toronto. JO would be far better being a secondary player on a team, with someone to help lead the way (just as Kidd has done with Vince in New Jersey).


If there's a player even resembling Dale Davis in this draft, we need to pick him. A true tough (read: not a cheap-shot, flopping, fake-tough) guy in the paint would be huge for this team.

Not to sound like a broken record, but we need to do all we can to acquire Shelden Williams.

pacerwaala
05-04-2006, 11:09 PM
Agree with most of your assesment except a couple of things

1 - I disagree with your take on Rick. He has done incredibly well given the circumstances.

When looking at results that Rick has acheived, we should look at the circumastances and the personnel with which he did that. Rick is not here to have an entertaining offense, he is here to do whatever it takes to win and he has done a fine job of it, considering the circumstances. I give Rick a complete pass.

2 - I am not sure what you mean by AJ's having a bad atitude. I am just curious as to what you saw that made you think that way. Sure he could have passed in the last posessions of a few regular season games, but I think he did not pass because of talent limitations (hard for everybody to have a vision like Jason Kidd or the like) than because of atitude issues. He can be a starter in the regular season but would not cut it in the playoffs for a team with championship aspirations.

sweabs
05-04-2006, 11:11 PM
Another thing I'd like to point out.

If we were to get a new coach, I hope people do not become disappointed when AJ is not the same player. AJ's success is in main part due to the coaching style of Rick (in my opinion).

Lord Helmet
05-04-2006, 11:11 PM
I agree with most of what you said.

I disagree about AJ's "supposed" bad attitude. I just don't see it, I guess. But other than that, I agree with you.

Hicks
05-04-2006, 11:16 PM
I should probably edit the AJ attitude thing out. I wrote that when I was just starting this post, and I don't even remember why I thought of it.

SoupIsGood
05-04-2006, 11:24 PM
Keep
Danny Granger
David Harrison
Jermaine O'Neal
Anthony Johnson
Scot Pollard
Fred Jones

TRADE AWAY ASAP
Peja
Jackson
Tinsley

Trade away, whenever you get around to it

Saras (Only because he is the odd man out when we bring in a new PG)

Stay or Go, doesn't matter
Croshere
Gill
Foster


Please Draft (One of them, or heck two if we can :eyebrow: )
Ronnie Brewer
Rudy Fernandez
Shelden Williams
Jordan Farmar


Look into maybe Hiring
Rick Adelman

Lord Helmet
05-04-2006, 11:25 PM
Did anyone hear what Jackson said? I would guess he was asked about if he thinks he'll be gone and what not, and he was like, "I really don't care, if I'm not here. As long as I am playing basketball and feeding my family, I'm fine." He went on to say, "Will I be happy if I'm not here? No, but as long as I am playing basketball, I'm fine."

It was something like that.

Moses
05-04-2006, 11:29 PM
Did anyone hear what Jackson said? I would guess he was asked about if he thinks he'll be gone and what not, and he was like, "I really don't care, if I'm not here. As long as I am playing basketball and feeding my family, I'm fine." He went on to say, "Will I be happy if I'm not here? No, but as long as I am playing basketball, I'm fine."

It was something like that.
I don't like Stephen Jackson but you really can't take this seriously.

He's played bad this series and they just lost an elimination game. On top of that, he's always a bonehead in front of the media. The guy wants to play here but none of the fan-base really likes him that much. I like his passion for the game but he does not fit into our game plan. He'd be a productive bench player for us but we can't afford to keep him.

On a side note, After listening to JO, I definitely want to keep him and I think the Pacers top brass will keep him. He's got a point about always being bodied up constantly every single game and he is taking a physical beating from season to season simply because he's the only low post threat. Nazr Mohammed is looking awfully nice right now. If not him, then get O'Bryant in the draft.

SoupIsGood
05-04-2006, 11:36 PM
er, why Nazr?

D-BONE
05-04-2006, 11:43 PM
On a side note, After listening to JO, I definitely want to keep him and I think the Pacers top brass will keep him. He's got a point about always being bodied up constantly every single game and he is taking a physical beating from season to season simply because he's the only low post threat. Nazr Mohammed is looking awfully nice right now. If not him, then get O'Bryant in the draft.

While it may be valid, this line of reasoning from JO could just as easily be interpreted as excuses. I, too, would welcome Nazr. I don't see why so many people just buy JO's press quotes at face value.

pacerwaala
05-04-2006, 11:45 PM
Keep


Look into maybe Hiring
Rick Adelman

SIG

When did you make that decison to desrt Carlisle. From your other posts, I thought you were the only one along with me that liked to see Carlisle have a long career here.

Did the constant "Rick must go" posts get to you?

joeyd
05-04-2006, 11:45 PM
As I alluded to in a different thread, Foster can stay if he spends the summer working on free throws. And oh, yeah, overcoming his fear of shooting wide-open mid-range jumpers.

beast23
05-04-2006, 11:48 PM
Gone -
Gill - will not be re-signed
Pollard - due to health, will not be re-signed

Traded -
Tinsley - 95% likely
Jackson - 75% likely

Re-signed -
Peja - still our best shooter; can he be a swing man SF/SG?
Freddie - unless we acquire a better defender of SG/PG

Traded in February -
Croshere - his value will be highest at the trading deadline

Returning -
JO
AJ
Granger
Harrison
Foster
Saras

Starters to begin next season -
C - Harrison or new player
PF - JO
SF - Granger
SG - Peja or new player
PG - AJ

Moses
05-04-2006, 11:50 PM
er, why Nazr?
I've always been somewhat high on him because he's got the ability to put up huge numbers any given night. He also gives us another *consistent* low post presence with JO. On top of that, nobody else is available at all.

Arcadian
05-05-2006, 12:03 AM
I want our backcourt changed. We need to figure out who is our pg. Then trade the other two and bring in a different pg. (Mostly I don't care which one but if it is Saras it better be as a back up.)

I want Jax gon not because of his attitude but because of his game. Too many turnovers and bad shots. He does nothing great. OK maybe his attitude. It certainly doesn't help.

Getting another big man would be nice.

Mostly though I think there is only one move we can make that will start this team over on a clean slate--get a new coach.

I'd also mention letting Larry go but thats not going to happen.

SoupIsGood
05-05-2006, 12:03 AM
SIG

When did you make that decison to desrt Carlisle. From your other posts, I thought you were the only one along with me that liked to see Carlisle have a long career here.

Did the constant "Rick must go" posts get to you?

I don't really want Rick to go, I just sorta like Adelman and think he could be a good fit here. I ask that LB/DW at least think about hiring him if he becomes available.

I'm perfectly fine with keeping Rick (Carlisle) though.

Shade
05-05-2006, 12:38 AM
Excellent, excellent post, Hicks. Maybe your best ever. I agree with most (not all) of it, but you make many great points.

bulletproof
05-05-2006, 01:15 AM
Excellent, excellent post, Hicks. Maybe your best ever. I agree with most (not all) of it, but you make many great points.

Agree. Our baby is all grown up. :sniff:

Jose Slaughter
05-05-2006, 01:24 AM
I agree, great post Hicks

Could O'Neal take his game up a level with an upgrade at center & the improvements in the backcourt you're looking for?

TheLemonSong
05-05-2006, 01:25 AM
Great post Hicks!

I'm still unclear about just one aspect of your post: You want to keep Gill, you want AJ to be the backup, and you want Saras to be a full-time 1...then you want to bring in a solid starting PG...so that's 4 PGs?

The point guard situation is really messed up right now, and this is such an issue...

My feeling is that we need to decide if AJ is our future or if Saras is our future backup and cut one of them out of the picture. This could really go either way, and it will depend on whether or not Rick is the coach...if Rick is the coach, AJ stays and Saras goes...if not, maybe the other way around? Another option might be to get rid of Eddie Gill and move Saras to Gill's role, but judging by Saras's attitude this is going to be an internal issue within a month of opening night...tough call, really tough call...

larry
05-05-2006, 01:27 AM
Hicks, I think that was your best post since I've joined. I act crazy sometimes, but I DO know ALOT about basketball. I agree w/ every single word except your view on AJ. I do & have for awhile thought that AJ can be a starter on any NBA team. Also, his game tonite didn't really surprise nor impress me alot. I frankly think he's capable of this type of game EVERY game. Be clear, a PG going for 40 isn't ideal. Tonite we had NO offense. He can play just as well putting up 15-25. I concur on all else said.

Diesel_81
05-05-2006, 01:33 AM
For whatever reason losing to the NETS in the playoffs didn't bother me very much this year compared to the other years. I'm kinda looking forward to this offseason because now it seems Bird and Walsh know change is needed.

One guy that I hope stays is Jermaine Oneal. For whatever reason people are down on him the latest thing is he's not a #1 on a title contender. Maybe it's just me but there are only a handful of guys in the NBA who are true #1 options who have the physical talent /mental toughness and drive to cary there team to a championship. Is Jermaine Oneal a true #1?Nope but he is still one of the top 15 players in the game and if you surround him with the right type of players /where he doesn't have to do everything by himself I think he could be very successful. When you bash Jermaine just remember Anthony Johnson was basically the second star on this team all year and there 3rd best player is a rookie.Thats not alot to work with. Its amazing this team even made the playoffs.

TheLemonSong
05-05-2006, 01:33 AM
Hicks, I think that was your best post since I've joined. I act crazy sometimes, but I DO know ALOT about basketball. I agree w/ every single word except your view on AJ. I do & have for awhile thought that AJ can be a starter on any NBA team. Also, his game tonite didn't really surprise nor impress me alot. I frankly think he's capable of this type of game EVERY game. Be clear, a PG going for 40 isn't ideal. Tonite we had NO offense. He can play just as well putting up 15-25. I concur on all else said.

I agree that AJ could be a starter...but is he the kind of starter that will lead you to a championship? I just don't know...this is a coin toss....

Peck
05-05-2006, 01:45 AM
Great post Hicks.

I think you may be a little gentle on TPTB but I also understand your logic as well.

It's funny isn't it. For every year since 2000 with the exception of last season the one player or type of player we have all clamored for (& no not just me) is Dale Davis.

He was truely a special player although you would never know it if you looked at his career stats. He defied stats for some reason.

Oh well, I won't turn this into a Dale Davis thread (although I'll gladly read if some of you want to);) .

I intend on doing a position by position breakdown but I think my thoughts will be very close to yours.

microwave_oven
05-05-2006, 02:05 AM
My thoughts are almost in line w/ Hicks, with a few minor changes.

Who needs to stay:

Danny Granger- is by far the best thing we have to look forward to next year. has everything a great player needs. character, skills, offense, defense, work ethic, and is an overall good guy. the future is bright if we can bring in some vets with good character to mentor him.

Anthony Johnson- hate the way he used to play. but has obviously changed my mind. I am still not a huge fan of his game, but he is a great guy who is a hard worker. Will be great for our younger guys. however, under no circumstances do i believe he should start. we must find a point guard who is quick, durable, and pass first. it wouldn't hurt if he could shoot the trey

Scot Pollard- would hate to see scott go. love his game and his work ethic. he is one of the guys on this team who has great character and loves to play the game and play it hard. i wouldn't overpay him (especially with his back problems) but for the right price, he is a must.

Jermaine O'Neal- a lot of people here want him gone, but without JO, we have ZERO post offense. he is not the leader of this team, he is not a natural leader, but he is a great basketball player. the problem is whether or not he will back down from his leadership role. we need to find a guy to lead this team though, and sadly JO is not the answer.

Peja Stojakovic- i will hope that this doesn't come back to bite me. if he has a problem w/ carlisle, then we have a serious problem. he is the best shooter in the league and w/o him we have no perimeter game. in order to win at this level, you have to work inside-out. peja has to stay for a good price hopefully. danny should start, but hopefully both can play at the same time. danny can't shoot like peja, and we need that threat to be successful.

David Harrison- david needs a big man coach. he could still be a very good center, but needs help with his development. a bigs coach is money well spent.

Who could stay or go:

Sarunas Jasikevicius- i still think he can be good, but i don't envision him as a starter. in that same respect i believe AJ is our back-up at the point. Saras is the hardest to pick, because he is good, but not good enough to start.

Jeff Foster- foster could be a throw-in in a trade. If it nets us a great player, then you have to pull the trigger. otherwise i would love to have him around, but as a back-up

Austin Croshere- will bring value to trades because of his expiring contract. if a big name is available and you need croshere to make the deal work, you do it. his situation is somewhat similar to foster's

Who has to go:

Jamaal Tinsley- I used to love tin-man's game. but if you can't take care of your body, then you don't deserve to be in the league. I think he will bring some value to the trade market. which is good because he will not be a Pacer in 2007.

Eddie Gill- I like eddie, but three point guards will do for next year with Tinsley being gone. I would rather his roster spot be used for a big man or a shooter.

Stephen Jackson- I hate his attitude, I hate his game. I love his durability, I hate his mouth. 3 to 1, Jack has to go.

Fred Jones- Is too small to play defense on bigger, more athletic guards, and his ball-handling is atrocious. I also do not like a lot of his decision-making. If you can get a sign and trade deal for a late 1st or early 2nd round pick, you do it. our guards have to be able to defend the bigger guards if we want to succeed.


The coach- Rick must stay. He needs his players to listen to him and take care of themselves. A tough veteran leader who will not take crap from JO or anybody and side w/ Rick is what needs to happen. Players should support their coach.

Outlook- quick, defensive, pass-first guards is at the top of my list, preferably spot up shooters. followed closely by a tough veteran leader who supports his coach and doesn't back down to anyone. Finally we need a big man who is a tough, rebounding force to play next to JO. If there is a guy nicknamed "the punisher" then that is someone to go after.

Lastly I would like to say that I have never been this excited after a loss. I can breathe again. This team will not be the same next year, and I believe that we have no where to go but up from here.

Next years preferred lineup:

new point/AJ/Saras
Granger/quick guard/Saras
Peja/Granger/?
JO/Foster/Croshere
Punisher/Hulk/Pollard

CableKC
05-05-2006, 02:14 AM
Geez Hicks...did you come up with this in the hour after the game?

or

Did you start this over the last year?

J/K :D

Without much explanation.

Who I want to keep ( in no particular order ):

- Granger ( duh )
- Sarunas ( I agree with what you said in your post. IMHO, give him consistent minutes and a good defensive 2nd unit and see what he can do )
- AJ ( cuz he's not the best...but good enough considering the cost to seriously upgrade the starting PG spot )
- Pollard ( I agree with what you say and also think that he's a good mentor for Harrison )
- Harrison ( future backup Center that needs time to develop )
- Croshere ( what can we really get back for 31 year old backup PF that is starting to breakdown. I still respect him for the leadership that he provides but hate that he sucked it up out there...but I don't expect him to pull us out of the dumps...I expected JONeal to. Let him expire or resign him for cheap in the 2007 offseason )
- Foster ( cuz he's a garbage man and is a good role-player...something we lack. But you're right...he's starting to break down...which is a concern. )
- Gill ( sure, why not....unless we can draft a decent PG in the 1st round )
- Carlisle ( I wouldn't blame him for leaving...but I want to see what he can do coaching a team with no drama...which he hasn't had for the last 3 seasons )

Who I could take or leave:

- JONeal ( I agree with you on your post and would part with him if we got a pretty good offer for him. If not, I don't want a few good and bad player just to trade him....I would much rather live with his injured @ss then settle for a cr@p deal to move him )
- Peja ( I agree with you that I wouldn't blame him if he doesn't want to resign. If he's willing to consider it and we don't overpay him...then resign him as a 2nd option on the team...after making a commitment to moving SJax and Tinsley. If not...then we need to S&T him. )
- Freddie ( if Peja is not resigned....then that means that Granger is our starting SF and I wouldn't mind keeping Freddie as the backup SG...as long as we don't overpay him )

Who I want to see gone:

- Tinsley ( I want him gone cuz of his attitude, his mentality, health issues and the need to clear up the PG situation given that I want to keep both AJ as the starter and Sarunas as the backup PG. In addition...I really think that there is more to his absense within the last couple of weeks then we know. )
- SJax ( Is there really a need to say anything here ? )

I don't think that there is a need to blowup the team but retool...or specifically get rid of the problems that I feel we need to get rid of to simply stay competitive.

Ultimate Frisbee
05-05-2006, 02:40 AM
Great post Hicks! I agree on most of the assignments.

I would love to blow up the team and build around Granger, though I doubt it will happen at a fair price, so I agree with your asscessment.. I really think our strengths are Walsh and Bird... I trust them to make good decisions in the future but they need room to do so. I would cheer more for a team of young, though mistake prone, players than a team of mediocre (by NBA standards :) vets.

I don't want Peja to say... this is my biggest source of disagreement. Not playing in most the playoffs kills me.

I would love if we could somehow (anyhow) get Brandon Roy in the draft... I am in love with that guy's game!

Ultimate Frisbee
05-05-2006, 02:43 AM
Brandon Roy!!

Sorry, gotta make that plug :-)


Keep

Please Draft (One of them, or heck two if we can :eyebrow: )
Ronnie Brewer
Rudy Fernandez
Shelden Williams
Jordan Farmar

Flax
05-05-2006, 03:55 AM
Great post Hicks, but I find major inconsistency when you talk about PG situation.



What do I really want:
What I really want are guard that are fast, quick, can score around the basket, and can control the ball (read: not turn it over so damn much). We have a slow backcourt and it kills us on both sides of the ball. If we get some fast guards we can ball-hawk on defense, and we can get better penetration on offense, which will open up a lot of opportunities for everyone on this team.

Assume, that we keep AJ and Sharas and get somebody quick, with good ball controll and defensive capabilities. Lets not talk who it might be, as getting quality point guard is not easy. Then I assume Sharas is the third option at PG, and then any coach will be tempted to play him as back-up at SG position, unless AJ is injured. And I completely agree that Sharas IS NOT A SHOOTING GUARD. In such a situation, if we get so far anonymous point guard as a starter, Sharas is a waste under Carlisle system.

Although I completely agree, that the first year in NBA is not the best benchmark to judge, I simply do not see him getting sufficient playing time being 3rd option. He is not used to be role player and I do not believe will want or can adjust. The best for everybody would be move Sharas if we expect to get another starting PG onboard.

SoupIsGood
05-05-2006, 06:22 AM
Brandon Roy!!

Sorry, gotta make that plug :-)

You think he'd be available? I was going for guys who might drop to us.

owl
05-05-2006, 07:15 AM
I glad to see poeple getting on the Shelden Williams bandwagon.


owl

btowncolt
05-05-2006, 07:31 AM
YOU ALL LAUGHED AT ME WHEN I SAID WE WOULDN'T MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND AT THE SUMMER FORUM PARTY.

But you laugh at me no matter what.

:kickcan:

arenn
05-05-2006, 08:52 AM
I am definitely a fan of Granger, but let's not go counting our chickens here. There are a lot of guys how showed rookie year promise who failed to develop into what their teams thought they could. Let's not let desperation blind us to the fact that Granger is still an unproven commodity.

Hicks
05-05-2006, 10:39 AM
Great post Hicks!

I'm still unclear about just one aspect of your post: You want to keep Gill, you want AJ to be the backup, and you want Saras to be a full-time 1...then you want to bring in a solid starting PG...so that's 4 PGs?

The point guard situation is really messed up right now, and this is such an issue...

My feeling is that we need to decide if AJ is our future or if Saras is our future backup and cut one of them out of the picture. This could really go either way, and it will depend on whether or not Rick is the coach...if Rick is the coach, AJ stays and Saras goes...if not, maybe the other way around? Another option might be to get rid of Eddie Gill and move Saras to Gill's role, but judging by Saras's attitude this is going to be an internal issue within a month of opening night...tough call, really tough call...

You're right it'd be a mess as-is. I think we need to see who is going to be the coach before making a choice at PG. If Rick is out and a more offensive-minded coach is in, that may be the greenlight for Sarunas to sink or swim over a longer period of time.

My other thought is perhaps packaging either Sarunas or Johnson with Tinsley for a starting PG and the one not traded is the backup.

What worries me is this series convinces TPTB that AJ can be the full-time starter, and we simply ditch Tinsley (trade him for another position than PG) and let Sarunas backup AJ. Now, with a diff. coach that may look better than it does now, but I don't want our starting PG handling/shooting as much as AJ does. But like I said before, who knows how much of that is the coach instead of him.

TheLemonSong
05-05-2006, 01:01 PM
What worries me is this series convinces TPTB that AJ can be the full-time starter, and we simply ditch Tinsley (trade him for another position than PG) and let Sarunas backup AJ. Now, with a diff. coach that may look better than it does now, but I don't want our starting PG handling/shooting as much as AJ does. But like I said before, who knows how much of that is the coach instead of him.
See, that's interesting because I'm not worried about this in the slightest...
I think AJ can be a full-time starter, I'm just not sure he's the type of PG to lead us to a championship...my feeling is that he is a very coachable player, but he doesn't have the killer-instinct of a leader. I don't have a problem w/ AJ's shooting, and he's not known as a PG who turns the ball over for no reason like Tinsley...he's probably the most solid backup in the league, and considering his play this season I'm fine w/ keeping him....but if we move to a more offensive-minded coach, he's gotta go...AJ's no scorer.

What worries me most is that LB is so smitten with Sarunas that he decides to keep him regardless of AJ's consistency and Sarunas's inconsistency. Or (perhaps even worse) we keep them both and get a new starting PG which moves Sarunas to 3rd on the depth chart....can you imagine what Cabbage would say/think of being the *third* choice? I see this as being a trade-demand waiting to happen, and if there is one thing ONE THING! this team needs to avoid is chemistry problems.

Ultimate Frisbee
05-05-2006, 01:14 PM
You think he'd be available? I was going for guys who might drop to us.
No, probably not... we'd have to trade up :)

SoupIsGood
05-06-2006, 12:29 AM
I don't really want Rick to go, I just sorta like Adelman and think he could be a good fit here. I ask that LB/DW at least think about hiring him if he becomes available.

I'm perfectly fine with keeping Rick (Carlisle) though.

Actually, I've been thinking about this, and as much as I like Rick, it might be time to part ways.

We need to develop our young players, there's just no way to get around that. That's one thing that Rick isn't exactly great at, and I think bringing in a staff that's great with the youngins might be the best thing to do here for a few years.


That, and something that happened a while ago make me think that Rick sadly won't be back.

Oh well...