PDA

View Full Version : Official Post Game Thread: Pacers lose 97-88.



Jermaniac
04-29-2006, 05:45 PM
Rick Carlisle wont fight for his players, is allowing that BS refing to go on and is saying nothing about it. Hasnt been thrown out once this season, way to stand up for your players.

Foster is not a starting center, if he cant offensive board he is useless, the Nets give him ALL the damn space in the world and he cant do nothing on offense. Krstic also owns him on defensive end.

David should be starting and Pollard should be backing him up.

Peja is a punk and I dont want him back with the Pacers, JO had a hyperextended knee in the ECF and he played 5-6 games with it, not one moan from JO about how his knee hurt and how he cant play. Peja has a swolen knee and he has to sit out 2 games. What a freaking PANSY.

Take care of the damn ball. I really hope the refs call the game better in game 5 cause if they make up their mind that they want us to lose, we will lose the game just like this one. From jump ball and JO's first foul they determined that we would lose.

Mac_Daddy
04-29-2006, 05:48 PM
I was also quite frustrated with today's game.

tora tora
04-29-2006, 05:48 PM
I don't think the refs had anything to do with it. The Pacers came out lazy for the third quarter, and like they typically do, tried to make a last second comeback only to lose. They need to play 48 minutes.

NaptownBound
04-29-2006, 05:49 PM
as did turnovers and poor free throw shooting...

it's not just the refs guys... be honest

Jermaniac
04-29-2006, 05:52 PM
I'm really disapointed with Peja, he could have came out today and tried just tried to run around for 10-15 minutes of the game. If he could have played in game 3 why couldnt he give it a shot in this one. His damn knee aint gonna fall off.

Hicks
04-29-2006, 05:53 PM
I didn't like some calls, but turnovers killed us. That's our fault. And I totally disagree with anyone who's mad at Rick for not getting a T. It won't ammount to **** in a game like this, and it gives them a point. We look immature and short-tempered as it is WITHOUT our coach getting in on the act. If we took care of the ball, this would be a non-issue.

tora tora
04-29-2006, 05:54 PM
If he played he would have hurt them significantly on the defensive end.

Mourning
04-29-2006, 05:56 PM
Yup! 22 turnovers against just 10 of theirs. They took care of the ball we didn't. Shooting free throws not too well didn't help our case either.

... There goes home court advantage!!! :arrgh::shudder::uhoh::sad:

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 05:56 PM
This team lacks that "killer instinct" that is needed in the NBA.

The comeback was nice, but this team just doesnt have that "it" that makes then want to burry the other team when they have them down. We have seen it all to often this season, and I think that it starts with the coaches, and while I admire RC's "cool" personality, I think that the negative effect is that of what we saw today.

I would preach about turnovers and missed free throws, but I dont want to sound like a freaking broken record.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 05:57 PM
Oh, and the refs didnt beat us.

They have sucked the whole series, but they did not lose the game.

The team lost the game.

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Our best player was sitting the bench to start the game for the third game this series. You heard what JVG said, the way you start the game is often how you finish it. At the end, he summarized with something relating to the foul trouble.

The refs had a lot to do with this loss.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Our best player was sitting the bench to start the game for the third game this series. You heard what JVG said, the way you start the game is often how you finish it. At the end, he summarized with something relating to the foul trouble.

The refs had a lot to do with this loss.

You dont always get breaks in the NBA.

So no, the refs didnt.

Its not the refs fault we only have one "star" player, its not the refs fault we couldnt hit a free throw, its not the refs fault we turned the ball over 20 plus times.

The refs helped us a lot in the fourth, a lot of those techs, esp. the one on Frank was BS.

Its easy to blame the refs, the bottom line is players decide the game, and we didnt execute tonight.

Jermaniac
04-29-2006, 06:04 PM
You cant execute when they keep taking your best player out the game with bull**** calls. The last foul on JO was just gold. Danny hits RJ, JO jumps in the air doesnt touch RJ, and JO fouls out. Just amazing.

Shade
04-29-2006, 06:04 PM
The refs are far from the only reason we lost the game, but to say they didn't have a major impact on the outcome, well...that's just not true.

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:06 PM
The refs didn't sit your best player on the bench. You best player did. Those were both legit fouls. The only player in the league who gets away with those moves is the O'Neal who plays for Miami.

The refs didn't lose the game either. Your team did by not taking care of the ball, not playing with any passion and not bothering to really get after NJ on defense.

Hicks
04-29-2006, 06:07 PM
The refs are far from the only reason we lost the game, but to say they didn't have a major impact on the outcome, well...that's just not true.

I agree with that.

Aw Heck
04-29-2006, 06:10 PM
The refs absolutely did not beat us. The Nets were called for more fouls (29) and the Pacers shot more free throws (32, and they missed 10. Gee, that seems to be a difference maker...). Those first two games, yeah, I'd agree the refs were definitely heavily favoring the Nets. But not this game. The Pacers shot themselves in the foot here.

The Pacers played like idiots most of the game. It was disgusting to watch turnover after turnover. This group is so inconsistent. The Pacers need a creator on offense in the worst way. AJ's been playing great so far and I love how he's playing, but he's a backup. I really hope the Pacers acquire a new PG this summer that can create.

By the way, Nenad Krstic is auto-freaking-matic from mid-range. I don't recall him EVER missing a mid-range shot this series. Yet, strangely enough, he's left open TIME AFTER TIME. Either he's the 4th All-Star in the making on the Nets or the Pacers are just playing horrible defense.

Smart coaching by Lawrence Frank today. Every time the Pacers went on a run, he called a timeout and stopped it dead in its tracks. He's a much better coach than I thought.

And I don't know what to think of Peja anymore. I don't know how he can play one game and not the next. They really could have used his scoring today and an extra 6 fouls. He's a difference maker apparently since the Pacers are 0-2 in this series when he doesn't play. If he could've played in game 3, I'm willing to bet he probably could've played today. Screw pain, it's the fricking playoffs. I'm leaning more and more to wanting him to be signed and traded in the offseason. No, I'm not overreacting because of his injury because I was never that sold on him in the first place. I want Granger to start next year. Use Peja to get a PG or a SG.

Why is it that most of our players are so fragile? I don't think it's just a freak coincidence. Something is obviously wrong with the strength and conditioning of this team and it needs to be addressed. Otherwise we're going to continue to see our key players injured when it matters most.

I'm know I'm ranting here, but I'm just so tired of the Pacers blowing opportunities and being so inconsistent.

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 06:11 PM
You dont always get breaks in the NBA.

So no, the refs didnt.

Its not the refs fault we only have one "star" player, its not the refs fault we couldnt hit a free throw, its not the refs fault we turned the ball over 20 plus times.

The refs helped us a lot in the fourth, a lot of those techs, esp. the one on Frank was BS.

Its easy to blame the refs, the bottom line is players decide the game, and we didnt execute tonight.


JO has been in heavy foul trouble for three of the four games now. I'm not just going to ignore that. Something is up.

I've seen someone like Shaq finish a game with just one foul far too many times. The refs are cheapening the game by constantly making our best player leave the game.

tora tora
04-29-2006, 06:12 PM
If they don't stop 1(the constant dribble penetration from the Nets, 2(Nenad Kristic's mid range jumpers, (3 constant fouling from the help defense under the basket, and 4) ridiculous turnovers then the Pacers won't stand a chance in game 5.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:12 PM
JO has been in heavy foul trouble for three of the four games now. I'm not just going to ignore that. Something is up.

I've seen someone like Shaq finish a game with just one foul far too many times. The refs are cheapening the game by constantly making our best player leave the game.

Its funny, when we lose its the refs fault but when we win its a "team win"

JO earned all but one of those fouls, and frankly these refs have called it the same way the whole series.

The refs are not making him leave the game, he is making himself leave the game by picking up fouls.

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 06:14 PM
Its funny, when we lose its the refs fault but when we win its a "team win"



Funny that I haven't said either one...

Shade
04-29-2006, 06:15 PM
The refs didn't sit your best player on the bench. You best player did. Those were both legit fouls. The only player in the league who gets away with those moves is the O'Neal who plays for Miami.

The refs didn't lose the game either. Your team did by not taking care of the ball, not playing with any passion and not bothering to really get after NJ on defense.

Those are touch fouls you don't make in a game like this, especially that early in the game.

Not to mention the officiating is horribly inconsistent. JO gets bodied all day long with no call.

Yeah, we played like crap too, but that doesn't let the officiating totally off the hook. We can't win with our best player being whistled for pansy fouls left and right, and it's not fair, either.

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
JO has been in heavy foul trouble for three of the four games now. I'm not just going to ignore that. Something is up.


You're right, something is up - JO isn't very smart. They've made the same calls consistently the entire series - and he just keeps committing the same foul.

bulldog
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
The bottom line is, JO is just not an effective leader and...

j/k:D

But the fact that he is in constant foul trouble makes me think the trouble lies with him just as much as the refs, since the reffing squads have been different each game.

It does surprise me, however, that he doesn't get more "superstar treatment." Hell, LeBron took 7 steps to hit the game winner and they didn't even think about calling anything. Why no love for JO? Maybe he should sign a bigger shoe deal.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
Funny that I haven't said either one...

Funny, I never accused you personally.

Its a common theme here.

Big Smooth
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
Missed free throws, turnovers, poor defense. At what point do the Pacers decide to defend Nads when he is hitting jumper after jumper?

Peja's 2nd missed game is troubling also. Seeing him and Tinsley sitting together on the bench in suits was a bit troubling. **EEK**

Gonna be very tough to win this series now.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:16 PM
Those are touch fouls you don't make in a game like this, especially that early in the game.

Not to mention the officiating is horribly inconsistent. JO gets bodied all day long with no call.

Yeah, we played like crap too, but that doesn't let the officiating totally off the hook. We can't win with our best player being whistled for pansy fouls left and right, and it's not fair, either.

JO got a majority of the calls in game 3.....

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 06:18 PM
Funny, I never accused you personally.


No, but you did reply to me personally. Which generally makes me think that..... I dunno, you might be talking to me. :-p

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:18 PM
Those are touch fouls you don't make in a game like this, especially that early in the game.


Touch fouls? The defensive foul was a hammer job. And the offensive foul is exactly the kind of call you DO make early in the game to make sure players know what will and won't be allowed.

Not only that but 3 sets of officials have called those fouls the same way in 3 different games. Who's fault is it that he can't adjust?

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:19 PM
No, but you did reply to me personally. Which generally makes me think that..... I dunno, you might be talking to me. :-p

So wait, you are trying to use "logic" with me..........

good luck with that one ;)

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 06:19 PM
They've made the same calls consistently the entire series

On both sides of the floor? Or just against JO?

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:21 PM
On both sides of the floor? Or just against JO?

Let me know what Net post player likes to drive a defender back by lowering his shoulder into him and I'll let you know.

Mourning
04-29-2006, 06:21 PM
Its funny, when we lose its the refs fault but when we win its a "team win"

JO earned all but one of those fouls, and frankly these refs have called it the same way the whole series.

The refs are not making him leave the game, he is making himself leave the game by picking up fouls.

Sorry, but they were damn HORRIBLE in game 2 and a little doubtfull in game 1.

Today, we lost because of not taking care of the ball and not hitting free throws. That's the ultimate conclusion: we weren't carefull enough with the ball and we didn't execute on the offensive end.

However, again, to say the referees haven't been friendly to us is an understatement IMO. But, today the team lost the game.

Oh, and I'm now even more in favor of doing a S&T with Peja and if needed another player for a starting PG or C (that's going to be a hefty paid player we are going to bring in then like the looks of it, probably overpaid in fact).

Shade
04-29-2006, 06:22 PM
Well, then, I guess we should just start flopping left and right. It seems to work well for NJ.

vapacersfan
04-29-2006, 06:24 PM
Sorry, but they were damn HORRIBLE in game 2 and a little doubtfull in game 1.

Today, we lost because of not taking care of the ball and not hitting free throws. That's the ultimate conclusion: we weren't carefull enough with the ball and we didn't execute on the offensive end.

However, again, to say the referees haven't been friendly to us is an understatement IMO. But, today the team lost the game.

Oh, and I'm now even more in favor of doing a S&T with Peja and if needed another player for a starting PG or C (that's going to be a hefty paid player we are going to bring in then like the looks of it, probably overpaid in fact).

Like I said, the refs have been the same.

They have sucked all series (NBA refs all suck) but its up to the players to adjust.

But I am just repeating myself now....

Big Smooth
04-29-2006, 06:25 PM
The refs are far from the only reason we lost the game, but to say they didn't have a major impact on the outcome, well...that's just not true.

I won't say the refs have no effect, but I'm more worried about the things the Pacers can control and the P's did pretty poorly at those things. Refs are always a factor in games to some degree but the bigger factor is how each team executes. Composure is important, I hate teams that melt down ala the Heat in Game 3 vs the Bulls.

BoomBaby31
04-29-2006, 06:26 PM
Missed free throws, turnovers, poor defense. At what point do the Pacers decide to defend Nads when he is hitting jumper after jumper?

Peja's 2nd missed game is troubling also. Seeing him and Tinsley sitting together on the bench in suits was a bit troubling. **EEK**

Gonna be very tough to win this series now.

Peja should of shown up for this game even if the guy only played 10 minutes and wasn't effective it messes up our whole rotation when he sits. I saw him leave, enter and walk as normal as anyone else. JO is WAY more hurt then Peja and Tinsley put together. I feel bad about the JO trade talk, I say we don't resign Peja.... trade tinsley and foster in a package deal for a good shooter. Sign Nazr Mohhammed (spurs).

brich
04-29-2006, 06:28 PM
I was more frustrated with our lack of making tangible adjustments. I mean, I give credit to NJ for playing good defense, but I can't believe we didn't make more changes. We weren't getting calls because we clanged more iron then a blacksmith in the first half. I understand that they were collapsing on JO so we were trying to stretch the defense, but at some point you have to make some changes. Try to drive the ball more, make some more substitutions, anything.

Our offense was just out of synch., which led to impatient shots, which led to turnovers, which led to a repeat of the cycle. Every quarter I kept waiting for our approach to change, but I saw no evidence of it. Sometimes your shots just aren't going to fall, but you can always be more aggressive and try to get to the line.

I felt like the game was over by the third quarter, because each quarter looked similar to the previous one. Plus, our guys sort of lost their composure and we slowly self-destructed. You can blame both the coach and the players, but when we don't adapt to the game, then I think most of the blame falls on our coaching staff. We changed players, but I don't really think we changed our strategy.

If you look up ugly in the dictionary, then it will be a picture of Jeff Foster's shot from the top of the key. I love Jeff, and we need him to score if he is going to play, but he at least has to draw iron. It looked like he was shooting a medicine ball. I agree with others that in this series, we need to give the minutes to Cro. We need people to play on both ends of the court, or it makes it that much easier to collapse on JO.

This team needs to learn to take some mid-range jumpers. Everthing isn't in the post or behind the three point arc.

Quite frankly I thought this loss was more lopsided than the score. If Cro had not hit those shots in the second quarter then this game easily could have been blowout city.

We need to get off of the balls of our heels for the next game. We need to be more aggressive at the offensive end so that we can take advantage of the charity stripe. You have to be the aggressor to get the calls in the playoffs, and our guys should know that.

able
04-29-2006, 06:28 PM
And I totally disagree with anyone who's mad at Rick for not getting a T. It won't ammount to **** in a game like this, and it gives them a point. We look immature and short-tempered as it is WITHOUT our coach getting in on the act. If we took care of the ball, this would be a non-issue.

Did you ever consider that our players are talking and taken out of the game, because of the fact that if THEY don't do it, NOBODY does ?

"Taking one for the team" it is called, for a damn good reason, and Rick has not taken a T let alone be ejected ONCE this season.

It is sad, that a coach who is winning during a run against his team, stands up and takes a T (BS or not, I did not hear what he said) and our coach who sees idiotic call after idiotic call stares and says nothing.

and DK: if you are really sure that the 2nd foul on JO (the offensive one against Collins) was NOT a FLOP of major order, then I seriously suggest you watch that replay a couple of times, because not only I but also the commentators were in full agement that it was a cheap flop.
Let's face it, flops should not be awarded, certainly not on prime time players.

Evan_The_Dude
04-29-2006, 06:29 PM
Well that was my first game at the Fieldhouse. Turnovers and dumb passes killed us, but some of those turnovers were fouls they failed to call. They hacked Jack when he drove to the hole and didn't call anything, yet they went on and called 2 straight pu**y touch fouls on Jack when he was guarding Carter. Props to Jack for keeping his cool because I would have lost my mind.

There's lots of negatives so I'll hash out two positives.

1. Granger is the most aggressive rebounder on the team, and he's the best at making a play when it's needed most. I love him to death.

2. Sarunas is getting better defensively. I noticed he's stopped putting his hands up while his man is driving on him (basically telling the ref's he's given up on the play) and he instead keeps a hand in their face and tries to ride them out of bounds. He's also getting a bit better at getting the ball up the court against pressure.

Knucklehead Warrior
04-29-2006, 06:35 PM
I didn't watch but a few minutes of the game, so I'll proceed purely from a statistical standpoint.

NJ shot 49%. Carter-Krstic-Jefferson were 28 of 48 for 58%.
NJ had 42 FORTY frickin' TWO points in the paint.

Pacers committed 23 turnovers.
We went to the line more than they did.

You can blame this on the refs if you want.

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:36 PM
and DK: if you are really sure that the 2nd foul on JO (the offensive one against Collins) was NOT a FLOP of major order, then I seriously suggest you watch that replay a couple of times, because not only I but also the commentators were in full agement that it was a cheap flop.
Let's face it, flops should not be awarded, certainly not on prime time players.

He flopped big time - but JO still went into him. And it's the same call they've been making the entire series. At some point you'd think a player would figure that out.

efx
04-29-2006, 06:38 PM
Well, then, I guess we should just start flopping left and right. It seems to work well for NJ.

It won't work since the NBA is out to get us appearently. They'll adjust as the team adjusts.

Fireball Kid
04-29-2006, 06:40 PM
The Pacers have no one to blame but themselves.

Pacersfan.
04-29-2006, 06:40 PM
Peja's presence would have opened up a lot for the Pacers in that awful 1st half. Would he have hurt the D? Maybe, but I can't really see how they could have played worse D. Plus, it's awfully hard to get fastbreak points off made baskets.

bulletproof
04-29-2006, 06:44 PM
10 less turnovers and 4 more FTs made and we would have had a chance to take this. And why did Pollard only play 2 freakin' minutes?

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:46 PM
Peja's presence would have opened up a lot for the Pacers in that awful 1st half. Would he have hurt the D? Maybe, but I can't really see how they could have played worse D. Plus, it's awfully hard to get fastbreak points off made baskets.

That was a bad, bad sign. Jax and AJ can get on streaks from 3 but Peja's the only guy a defense has to really respect from that start.

I'd propose this: Start Harrison instead of Foster if Peja's playing and Croshere instead of Foster if he isn't. Let Harrison work the post and allow JO to stay out around the elbow. Foster plays better D but doesn't bother Krstc at all and you have to open up the floor if Peja's out. Plus maybe JO can watch Harrison get called for the offensive foul and figure out (after 4 games you'd think he'd figure it out for himself) that the refs aren't gonna let you drive your shoulder into people.

Of course this was the first game AC showed anything - interesting that until the 4th he and Harrison were your two best players. Foster's been a big disappointment so far.

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:46 PM
10 less turnovers and 4 more FTs made and we would have had a chance to take this. And why did Pollard only play 2 freakin' minutes?

I'd assume because Harrison was playing very well.

Roaming Gnome
04-29-2006, 06:47 PM
Peja's D wouldn't have been any worse then Austin's D. If it were not for the 3's Cro hit, he would have gave us NOTHING!!!

Pacersfan.
04-29-2006, 06:49 PM
Yes, Croshere hit those threes, but was he really drawing the defense out like Peja would have?

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 06:51 PM
Yes, Croshere hit those threes, but was he really drawing the defense out like Peja would have?

Dunno about that - and if Peja plays I wouldn't start him - but he sure drew it out more than Foster.

Jon Theodore
04-29-2006, 06:58 PM
refs were pathetic and so were the pacers for most of the game. Fans were really into the game even when we were down big. I have a lot to discuss but dont have time right now. I was right by New JErseys bench and Cliff Robinson spent more time talking trash to fans than he did watching the game.

Also, Jkidd is a punk. Every net shook hands with people on their way out of the tunnel after halftime, Jkidd gave us all dirty looks EVEN LITTLE KIDS.

Vince Carter ran out real fast and didn't talk to any fans. But kidd just walked out very slowly and honestly gave dirty looks to all of us. Uncalled for. Richard Jefferson shook hands with everyone who had a hand out.

Basically, it doesnt matter to me. BUt that makes a little kids day, YOUR GETTING PAID MILLIONS, GIVE BACK WHEN YOU CAN.

Cliff Robinson was really having fun with our fans, he threw a kid a couple towels/headband. Jkidd is an *******.

waterjater
04-29-2006, 07:22 PM
I didn't watch but a few minutes of the game, so I'll proceed purely from a statistical standpoint.

NJ shot 49%. Carter-Krstic-Jefferson were 28 of 48 for 58%.
NJ had 42 FORTY frickin' TWO points in the paint.

Pacers committed 23 turnovers.
We went to the line more than they did.

You can blame this on the refs if you want.


Through 3 quarters, the Pacers had shot 4 FTs to NJ's15-20 or something. One player, ONE, on the Pacers went to the line.

The refs made up for the FT disparity in the 4th by calling a bunch of BS fouls on the Nets....other than that 5 min period where the refs made the game look good...it was all in favor of the Nets. We got to the line in the 4th only just to make up for the lack of fairness in the 1st 3 quarters. Typical NBA game.....Head ref gets a beep in his ear...."looking bad, Pacers only have 4 FTs...need to make it look even" :)

We, The Pacers, Failed to rise above the BS or avoid the BS. JO didn't use his brain, and leaned in getting the BS flop called a foul on him and tried to take a charge...wasn't going to happen with this ref crew. Need to be aware and adjust....bad on JO's part.

As for points in the paint. JO was on the bench in foul trouble as they racked up those points in the paint.

Numerous TO's were the result of fouls on NJ that were not called.

We came out flat, played right into the hands of the opposition and refs. We played like a great team in the 4th, but that was because the refs allowed us to be aggressive....fouls stopped being called on the Pacers in the 4th and called instead on the Nets.

At the end of the day.....the refs as they always do, gave the team that was behind a chance to win and we missed 5+ FTs in the fourth and missed wide open shots. Our fault.

Water

waterjater
04-29-2006, 07:24 PM
10 less turnovers and 4 more FTs made and we would have had a chance to take this. And why did Pollard only play 2 freakin' minutes?

Pollard? I don't know. Doesn't make sense. He can make the 10-12 ft jumper and plays solid defense on Kristic. He should be playing AHEAD of Foster.

Knucklehead Warrior
04-29-2006, 07:38 PM
Through 3 quarters, the Pacers had shot 4 FTs to NJ's15-20 or something. One player, ONE, on the Pacers went to the line.

At the end of the day.....the refs as they always do, gave the team that was behind a chance to win Well then, I'm almost as upset as everyone else. A team always makes a run, sometimes it's the refs that are responsible. Maybe over the summer we need another thread about the ref conspiracy.

arenn
04-29-2006, 07:41 PM
This was a truly awful and ugly game to watch - and a particularly depressing one for any Pacers fan contemplating the future. I ratcheted back quite a bit on my NBA watching this season, and after seeing the Pacers in the playoffs, I feel fully validated.

The officiating was poor. Film at 11. This is the NBA. Get used to it. But poor officiating is probably our best hope of winning this series, as our play is just so unbelievably bad it is tough to believe we've got a shot without it.

The Nets came out as aggressors. We looked flat and lethargic from the word go. The Nets defense was significantly improved from previous games, yes. But, we committed an atrocious amount of turnovers, many of which were unforced. Our sloppy play more than anything cost us the game.

Offensively, we were hapless. We came out in a set that puzzles me in the extreme. JO is getting the ball up high, at the free throw line extended, where all he can do is take a jump shot. Yes, he can make it, but that's not his most effective location. Nor did they do anything with him there. And having Foster get the ball at the top of the key or beyond the arc? Gimme a break. The Nets didn't even have to guard him.

JO could be semi-effective down low, partially vitiated by his turnovers. The only other offensive move the Pacers seem to have is passing the ball around until someone jacks up a three. We are fortunate that the one area were we do have a clear advantage over the Nets is the three ball. They shot a pathetic 4-13 while we were a strong 10-21. But, seldom does a team win with just three pointers. And the long rebounds off misses can set up NJ for the break. Peja, such as he is, being on the bench puts a big hole in our meager offensive arsenal. We lack anyone other than O'Neal who is a reliable post player, and we lack a player like Kristic who is money at the mid-range jumper.

Speaking of Kristic, there's a guy who has questionable defensive skills. Why we have not attempted to attack him - to pick up files if nothing else - is a mystery. Of course, when the only person attacking the basket at all is JO, that's a problem.

We got little dribble penetration off the point guards, another key missing offensive element. And SJax, where are you? He's a streak shooter at best.

Defensively, we were poor in transition, though in fairness a lot of the fast breaks were set up off our turnovers. Still, we made NJ look as though they actually have a decent half court game. Way too many points in the paint, even when you subtract the fast breaks. Jackson was hapless guarding Carter today.

Carlisle was completely out coached. He made limited adjustments throughout the game. I question the offensive play calling. I question leaving the starters on the bench while we got buried at the end of the third (though in fairness, he'd probably claim with some justification that paved the way for the early fourth quarter run). The team was unprepared and out of sync. Contrast this with NJ, which made the adjustments. They knew Harrison was a poor foul shooter, and made sure he went to the line ten times. They immediately pounced on Sarunas with isolations against Kidd when he was playing point.

Looking at this team, one despairs of how we are going to build a competitive situation for the future. Clearly, radical surgery is needed. The only guy I think is off limits to trading is Granger, who appears to be the one bright spot in our otherwise dismal Universe. How many of our starters would actually start for a top ranked NBA team? Is O'Neal ever going to be the leader and star we need him to be? Can Foster ever add enough offense to make other teams actually have to guard him? Will SJax ever be anything but a streak shooter with a big mouth? I'll admit I've been a Tinsley partisan since way back, but it doesn't appear to be working out. Peja? Well, if he can't even dress for the game.... Let's face it, he wasn't a terrible pickup, but we basically went for him as the least bad option to get rid of Artest. Clearly he isn't worth top dollar and is probably past his prime anyway. With this motley crew, how do we build a title contender?

A good deal of the blame has to go to Walsh here. He's long been regarded as a top GM, and he's made some absolutely brilliant moves in his day. He took the Pacers from league doormat to the NBA Finals. Drafting Reggie was a stroke of brilliance. Trading for JO was amazing. But of late too many of his deals have included re-signing marginal talent to top dollar deals that hamstring our ability to sign the players we do need. And our pickups and draft picks have been terrible. Donnie stuck with Bender, who was the greatest waste of resources ever. Donnie overpaid Croshere and Foster. I don't blame him for everything. Artest was a gamble that didn't pan out, but you can't say it wasn't a good bet to place. But he's had a string of losing bets lately, and now we are so far behind in the talent and chemistry deparment that I'm not sure how we climb out.

Sorry to turn this into a therapy session, but I had to rant a bit.

My last comment: how can anybody who loves the game of basketball even enjoy watching the NBA today? The lack of fundamentals and general ugly play makes it painful to watch even when my team wins.

Kstat
04-29-2006, 07:46 PM
My last comment: how can anybody who loves the game of basketball even enjoy watching the NBA today? The lack of fundamentals and general ugly play makes it painful to watch even when my team wins.

The Pacers/Nets series is not indicitive of the NBA as a whole, IMO.

It's been the sloppiest series of the playoffs, bar none.

Myself, I just enjoy intensity and playing with passion. This year's playoffs is having the best 1st round in 10 years, IMO.

Unclebuck
04-29-2006, 08:06 PM
I thought the Nets defense was just outstanding today. In the first quarter the Pacers had trouble just making a pass, let alone get a decent shot. They were incredibly aggressive, the Nets deserve a lot of credit.

We need to face the fact that the Nets are better than the Pacers. Especially without Peja. Late in the third quarter I look at there and see, Cro, DH, Saras, Granger and an injured Jax. The Nets had Kidd, RJ, VC, Nenad, and Collins. You tell me which lineup is better. Pacers are playing basically three rookies and injured shooting guard and their 9th man. The simple fact is this, when the Nets play well like in games 2 or 4, they win rather easily.

The Nets just give the ball to Carter and he can get any shot he wants, when he goes to the basket. Pacers don't have that typoe of perimeter player.


I said before the game that Nenad is the key, not because he's unguardable, but he gets shots when Kidd, VC, or RJ breaks the defense down. So when Nenad gets a lot of open 15 footers, that means the Pacers defense is breaking down.

Another thing that hurt today is when you are trailing by at least 12 points the whole game you have to sacrifice some of your defense in order to get offense on the floor, and that really hurt, having to go with Cro and DH so much (both played well by the way, that is not my point) the point is the defense really suffers when both Jeff and Scot are on the bench. I know Jeff would have done a much better job of getting to Nenad on his spot up jumpers.

Another thing that killed us was missed free throws. Pacers missed 5 FT in the 4th quarter and missed 6 free throws in the last 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter. That killed any comeback attempt

19 point deficit to start the 4th quarter is almost impossible to come from. To have a decent chance you need to be within 12, or at the very least 15 at the absolute most.

SoupIsGood
04-29-2006, 08:11 PM
Jeff should stay on the bench until he learns how to score occasionally.

Los Angeles
04-29-2006, 08:17 PM
I was pretty upset about this loss. So upset that I decided to stop working and go swimming right after the game.

Now I'm back and feeling a lot better.

Here's the thing that distance and balance (I don't want to call it objectivity) has made me realize: Our team kept fighting, and I thank them for that.

One month ago, that would have been near impossible.

Good job fighting back Pacers!!! :sunshine:

Robertmto
04-29-2006, 08:20 PM
Here's the thing that distance and balance (I don't want to call it objectivity) has made me realize: Our team kept fighting, and I thank them for that.

One month ago, that would have been near impossible.

Good job fighting back Pacers!!! :sunshine:

The Silver Lining of Game 4!

Unclebuck
04-29-2006, 08:21 PM
I was pretty upset about this loss. So upset that I decided to stop working and go swimming right after the game.

Now I'm back and feeling a lot better.

Here's the thing that distance and balance (I don't want to call it objectivity) has made me realize: Our team kept fighting, and I thank them for that.

One month ago, that would have been near impossible.

Good job fighting back Pacers!!! :sunshine:



Wow what was the pool filled with, maybe we all need to do a little "swimming" after a tough playoff loss.

Robertmto
04-29-2006, 08:22 PM
Wow what was the pool filled with, maybe we all need to do a little "swimming" after a tough playoff loss.

Jesus Juice

recap
04-29-2006, 08:23 PM
One thing I agree with Peck about is that we desperately need a guy like Dale Davis. We need an enforcer on defense, and on offense we need a big man that will actually set screens away from the ball. On offense, our wing players ought to be running Carter and Jefferson off screen after screen...let our big guys put some body on them. Right now, our bigs run half-hearted pick and roles, but never set screens off the ball.

We are just so physically soft on both sides of the floor. That is the one big area where we miss Artest. The only player that is really physical on our team is Pollard, and he doesn't play.

Unclebuck
04-29-2006, 08:26 PM
More than anything I want some perimeter defense on the Pacers team next season. I don't care if the Pacers can't score 50 points, but I want some perimeter defense.

I do agree with you also recap, I also want some physical aggression

Los Angeles
04-29-2006, 08:26 PM
Wow what was the pool filled with, maybe we all need to do a little "swimming" after a tough playoff loss.
HAHA - Here's my pool:
http://cms.dialecta.no/galleri/albums/Reisebrev2/06_venice_beach_view.sized.jpg

I went swimming just to the right of the break water at the top of this picture.
EDIT - that's the black line of rocks in the water that seem to be coming out of the top of the palm tree.

Robertmto
04-29-2006, 08:26 PM
I think Samuel Dalembert could be that type of player. His offene is alot better than Dale's too. Pacers need to go after him in the off-season.

Unclebuck
04-29-2006, 08:29 PM
HAHA - Here's my pool:
http://cms.dialecta.no/galleri/albums/Reisebrev2/06_venice_beach_view.sized.jpg

I went swimming just to the right of the break water at the top of this picture.



If I lived where you do, maybe I would have your attitude after a loss like this. Wow

BoomBaby31
04-29-2006, 08:36 PM
refs were pathetic and so were the pacers for most of the game. Fans were really into the game even when we were down big. I have a lot to discuss but dont have time right now. I was right by New JErseys bench and Cliff Robinson spent more time talking trash to fans than he did watching the game.

Also, Jkidd is a punk. Every net shook hands with people on their way out of the tunnel after halftime, Jkidd gave us all dirty looks EVEN LITTLE KIDS.

Vince Carter ran out real fast and didn't talk to any fans. But kidd just walked out very slowly and honestly gave dirty looks to all of us. Uncalled for. Richard Jefferson shook hands with everyone who had a hand out.

Basically, it doesnt matter to me. BUt that makes a little kids day, YOUR GETTING PAID MILLIONS, GIVE BACK WHEN YOU CAN.

Cliff Robinson was really having fun with our fans, he threw a kid a couple towels/headband. Jkidd is an *******.

I notice things like that all of the time, I hate when athletes can't extend a hand for the kids. Jkidd has been acting like a punk lately, maybe he is having problems at home or something (beating his wife again? :)) Not only him but, wtf is up with Steve Nash he use to be the calm, cool guy now he's in everyones face and being a b*tch. Athletes don't care about supporters, they only care about that $$$. Reggie seems like a good guy, and always give high fives on his way out; even Kobe gets a bad rap but, after that tough loss in Phoenix the first game the media held him after for 15 minutes and he still went throught the tunnel and high fived everyone. As I got older I came to realize these guys don't give two-sh*ts about their supporters/fans thats why i'm pulling for the Team not necessarly the players. Some players I still like, but 90% of them I can't stomach.

CableKC
04-29-2006, 09:15 PM
I think Samuel Dalembert could be that type of player. His offene is alot better than Dale's too. Pacers need to go after him in the off-season.
I would think so too....but we ain't getting him. We dont have the pockets or the will to make the type of trade to get him.

D-BONE
04-29-2006, 09:22 PM
We need an enforcer on defense, and on offense we need a big man that will actually set screens away from the ball.

We are just so physically soft on both sides of the floor.


Absolutely. So, let's see. That's lacking physical presence, lacking enough offense, lacking enough consistent shooters, lacking a good perimeter defender, lacking a creator and/or slasher on offense, terribly lacking in speed.

No wonder it's been such a struggle this year! We've got a generally soft, slow team with less talent in key areas than the good teams.

Robertmto
04-29-2006, 09:24 PM
I would think so too....but we ain't getting him. We dont have the pockets or the will to make the type of trade to get him.

Then what about somebody likeCezary Trybanski he only averages 16 mins., but also 2 blocks. He's 7'2 and plays for the Tulsa 66'ers - the Pacers D-League team!

D-BONE
04-29-2006, 09:35 PM
We need to face the fact that the Nets are better than the Pacers. Especially without Peja. Late in the third quarter I look at there and see, Cro, DH, Saras, Granger and an injured Jax. The Nets had Kidd, RJ, VC, Nenad, and Collins. You tell me which lineup is better. Pacers are playing basically three rookies and injured shooting guard and their 9th man. The simple fact is this, when the Nets play well like in games 2 or 4, they win rather easily.



Yes! And even w/Peja we're still decidedly on the short end of the stick. This appears to be more evidence how our depth approach ultimately doesn't measure up to having better talent concentrated in four or five guys and then a bunch of so-called scrubs.

I said this before, but assume our top guys are JO, Jack, AJ and Peja (at least offensively) compared to Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, Krstic. Still wouldn't cut the mustard.

What have they really got beyond VC, JK, NK, and RJ? Uncle Cliffy...Vaughn...John Thomas....Lamond Murray for cryin' out loud. But they have four guys that can score consistently and the rest of the team knows their roles and rotations. And they play good team D (in addition to having a few good individual defenders).

Meanwhile, we have relatively miniscule consistent offensive options and often changing rotations from game to game.

CableKC
04-29-2006, 09:43 PM
Then what about somebody likeCezary Trybanski he only averages 16 mins., but also 2 blocks. He's 7'2 and plays for the Tulsa 66'ers - the Pacers D-League team!

I would much rather spend the money on Elson......

OnlyPacersLeft
04-29-2006, 09:43 PM
I knew from the jump when JO went out QUICK that we were done for. anyone hear JO say "I wasn't even in the f'in play" when he fouled out? it was bs. the refs decided this game...no doubt. Can we put it together and make a close game vs NJ in new jersey? lets hope so. or this ones over...

OnlyPacersLeft
04-29-2006, 10:09 PM
grow up kristic killed us! I hate the fact a scrub like him ruins us....I can live with carter/jefferson/kidd but nads!?
cmon now

OnlyPacersLeft
04-29-2006, 10:10 PM
also notice JO started to try and take over down the stretch...he was hitting buckets and had just dunked one home when carter drives to the bucket and they call JO for his sixth? that type of crap makes me think the NBA is rigged...more games=More money...

D-BONE
04-29-2006, 10:17 PM
I would say Krstic has proved he's more than a scrub in this series if he hadn't by his play this season. Not exactly a stalwart on D perhaps, but a solid offensive option who plays hard.

DisplacedKnick
04-29-2006, 10:26 PM
I would say Krstic has proved he's more than a scrub in this series if he hadn't by his play this season. Not exactly a stalwart on D perhaps, but a solid offensive option who plays hard.

He's pretty much a more athletic Rik Smits.

Stojakovic
04-29-2006, 10:36 PM
Nads kristic killed us! I hate the fact a scrub like him ruins us....I can live with carter/jefferson/kidd but nads!?
cmon now

Not like Carter and Jefferson are any better than Krstic. The guy is 22 years old and I'd take him over anyone not named O'Neal on the Pacers.

Robertmto
04-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Not like Carter and Jefferson are any better than Krstic. The guy is 22 years old and I'd take him over anyone not named O'Neal on the Pacers.

I'd take him over everyone NAMED O'Neal on the Pacers...

Peck
04-29-2006, 11:44 PM
I think Samuel Dalembert could be that type of player. His offene is alot better than Dale's too. Pacers need to go after him in the off-season.


I don't know....

The last thing I remember about Dalembert from last season was him running "litterally" from Dale Davis.

I've seen two players turn & run from Dale. Armond Gilliam & Samuel Dalembert.

Lord Helmet
04-29-2006, 11:46 PM
I don't know....

The last thing I remember about Dalembert from last season was him running "litterally" from Dale Davis.

I've seen two players turn & run from Dale. Armond Gilliam & Samuel Dalembert.
Dale was about to beat the crap out of him.....:laugh:

Robertmto
04-30-2006, 12:08 AM
I don't know....

The last thing I remember about Dalembert from last season was him running "litterally" from Dale Davis.

I've seen two players turn & run from Dale. Armond Gilliam & Samuel Dalembert.

Yes but how does that relate to the box score? I understand teh concept of an enforcer. But what about production on the floor? What if the Pacers run into a team that isn't scared of him? Why would u play him? They need an enforcer that can also play. Samuel Dalembert.

joeyd
04-30-2006, 12:13 AM
Foster and Harrison need to spend the summer working on their offense. Both need to be shooting free throws all day long. Harrison will always be hacked down low until he gets good at the foul line. And Carlisle should create a drill for just for Foster, where he gets the ball at the top of the key and has to make a layup or jump shot with all of the players standing 5 feet away from him. Apparently, too much space can be intimidating. Pollard needs to get more minutes in Game 5 for the overall energy he brings to the game unless these guys turn it around and contribute a little on offense.

Jermaniac
04-30-2006, 12:26 AM
Dalembert sucks, not to mention the fact that he gets paid way to much money. Read the Sixers board on RealGM they hate him.

hoopsforlife
04-30-2006, 08:41 AM
And Carlisle should create a drill for just for Foster, where he gets the ball at the top of the key and has to make a layup or jump shot with all of the players standing 5 feet away from him. Apparently, too much space can be intimidating.

That could be fixed simply by having Steve Jackson or Freddie close out on him as soon as he gets the ball. :)

Edit: But then that would be a first for them and I'm not sure they could do it consistantly.

timid
04-30-2006, 09:39 AM
Kristic is NOT a scrub. That guy doesn't miss any mid range jumpers.

And why does Pollard continually sit the bench? I would start him, stick him on Kristic and tell him, "stick with him wherever he goes". Do not help off of him at all. Let JO or whoever is guarding Collins help on dribble penetration. But wait, that would be a bit too logical...

Unclebuck
04-30-2006, 09:58 AM
I would start him, stick him on Kristic and tell him, "stick with him wherever he goes". Do not help off of him at all. Let JO or whoever is guarding Collins help on dribble penetration. But wait, that would be a bit too logical...



Two problem with that. JO. would pick up even more fouls. And also the Nets force us to help off of Nenad, because they pick and roll with him so much. So unless you pre-rotate, Nenad is the one that is going to be open, or whoever the ball handler is on the pick and roll will get right to the basket with ease

timid
04-30-2006, 10:17 AM
Two problem with that. JO. would pick up even more fouls. And also the Nets force us to help off of Nenad, because they pick and roll with him so much. So unless you pre-rotate, Nenad is the one that is going to be open, or whoever the ball handler is on the pick and roll will get right to the basket with ease
Well obviously JO is going to pick up fouls regardless, the way this series is being called, might as well try to be an intimidator out there. I think JO does a great job at contesting shots without fouling. He's picking up all his fouls on the offensive end it seems. At least maybe, we can discourage some of the penetration because right now, RJ and Vince just put their head down and bull right to the basket.

I hear you on the pick and roll. That his a problem. We should pre-rotate and take our chances leaving someone open on the outside. I don't care how many 3's Kidd or RJ hit, I'll take my odds with them shooting 3's instead of constantly getting layups. Why can't we go to some kind of 2-3 zone when the pick and roll comes? That seems to be how other teams play us, especially when Fred gets the ball and tries to run a pick and roll.

DisplacedKnick
04-30-2006, 10:47 AM
And why does Pollard continually sit the bench? I would start him, stick him on Kristic and tell him, "stick with him wherever he goes". Do not help off of him at all. Let JO or whoever is guarding Collins help on dribble penetration. But wait, that would be a bit too logical...

Krstic's no Magic Johnson but if he takes Pollard out on the floor he'd look like it. Pollard would foul out in 5 minutes - and when Krstic blows by him, JO would be at even more risk of fouls.

For better or worse, JO's the only Pacer with the combination of athleticism and leaping ability who can really bother him. Foster has the quickness but can't get off the floor enough. The key though is making defensive rotations. How did Krstic get all those open jumpers? Pacer players let him drift out without rotating to cover. Sometimes they were screened but more often they just didn't bother to stay close.

timid
04-30-2006, 10:52 AM
Krstic's no Magic Johnson but if he takes Pollard out on the floor he'd look like it. Pollard would foul out in 5 minutes - and when Krstic blows by him, JO would be at even more risk of fouls.

For better or worse, JO's the only Pacer with the combination of athleticism and leaping ability who can really bother him. Foster has the quickness but can't get off the floor enough. The key though is making defensive rotations. How did Krstic get all those open jumpers? Pacer players let him drift out without rotating to cover. Sometimes they were screened but more often they just didn't bother to stay close.
Since when has Kristic blown past anybody? Thats not his strength. The most he'll do is pump fake and 1 dribble, then he'll pass it off.

Robertmto
04-30-2006, 01:12 PM
Since when has Kristic blown past anybody? Thats not his strength. The most he'll do is pump fake and 1 dribble, then he'll pass it off.

Or hit that 15 footer!

ChicagoJ
05-01-2006, 01:23 PM
I'd assume because Harrison was playing very well.

But Harrision didn't play enough, either.

Jumper
05-01-2006, 01:30 PM
So if you leave JO on Krstic to neutralize him. Of Foster, Pollard, and David who is the best to man the lane?

I think Foster is the obvious odd man out here. You would be much better off with Pollard rather than David because Pollard can alter the shot just the same without picking up the foul.

larry
05-01-2006, 01:39 PM
Peja is a punk and I dont want him back with the Pacers, JO had a hyperextended knee in the ECF and he played 5-6 games with it, not one moan from JO about how his knee hurt and how he cant play. Peja has a swolen knee and he has to sit out 2 games. What a freaking PANSY.


That's for sure. Rick said he didn't know Peja wouldn't play untill 30 mins. before the tip. The #1 problem I have w/ this team is the sissy injuries. This series has also greatly changed my feelings on signing Peja. I wouldn't make an offer if the season ends w/o him doing something for us. Maybe he thinks his value will go down if he plays a little hurt, but in my eyes it has went down because he's showing a lack of heart. What a freaking PANSEY!!