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View Full Version : Interesting Sam Smith read, some Pacers stuff



Unclebuck
04-17-2006, 08:35 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-0604170077apr17,1,2628463,print.column?coll=cs-columnists
INSIDE THE NBA

Curry no cinch to stay on Knicks
Insiders say ex-Bull not a good fit for N.Y. coach Brown
Sam Smith
On Pro Basketball

April 17, 2006

Could Eddy Curry be on the move again?

Clearly, big changes figure to be coming in New York after this miserable season and it's hard to believe the Knicks wouldn't give coach Larry Brown one more chance with a different roster. Changing that overpaid, underachieving roster won't be easy. But you figure general manager Isiah Thomas has his eyes on one big name who is likely to be involved in trade talks this summer, Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal.

That would be Thomas' type of move. It was O'Neal who was most upset when Thomas was fired as Pacers coach and threatened to force his way out. Feelings were soothed, but O'Neal has kept up a personal relationship with Thomas. And last week Pacers general manager Larry Bird, in saying coach Rick Carlisle wasn't going anywhere, challenged the players and hinted at a major shakeup of the disappointing Pacers. Could they be trading partners?

Believe it or not, Thomas has a plan. It's to accumulate assets and combine them in deals for players he wants. He got Steve Francis from Orlando for Trevor Ariza. How bad can that be as long as finances don't matter? Which they don't in New York.

Figure the Pacers, like everyone else, to make a run at Kevin Garnett. And with Garnett sitting out the rest of the season, it does make you wonder if the Timberwolves are taking a look at what their team would be without Garnett. But they continue to insist they'll add a player to complement Garnett, and many believe it could be former teammate Stephon Marbury. No one is untouchable in New York, nor should be.

It seems clear that O'Neal has had his run in Indiana. You know Thomas would love to have him back, and O'Neal would lend some credibility as a rough post player, more to the liking of Brown. Who knows whether the Pacers would be interested in Curry, but Carlisle does run a slower, post-up offense that would seem to suit Curry better.

Curry will never fit with Brown, say coaches who know both. Brown is known for his intense dislike for offensive players and has had some of his most celebrated differences with David Robinson, Danny Manning and Reggie Miller. It's why Chauncey Billups could not break out until Brown left. So it was no surprise to many that, before Brown left ill last week, Curry was regularly being benched for Jackie Butler, whoever that is.

"I'll be ready for whatever, if he goes in a different direction or not," Curry said. "It's pointless to ask me what the reason is [for the benchings]. He'll give you a better answer. It's hard for me to [know] when he's going to put me out there or not."

Curry has played fewer than 30 minutes in seven of the last eight games and is averaging 9.5 points and 4.4 rebounds in that span.

"I'm not down on Eddy Curry," Brown insisted last week. "I think Eddy Curry is a key to our team. . . . [But] I've been telling Isiah from Day One, having a point guard and having a center who rebounds and defends are the two critical areas for any team."

Those who saw Curry on the Bulls for four years know he'll never be that player.

Certainly, the Knicks aren't going to interest the Pacers with Curry alone. But if they offered Channing Frye and a first-rounder, perhaps they could get O'Neal and Brooklyn-born point guard Jamaal Tinsley, whom the Pacers would love to get rid of. It's hard to say what might work, if anything, but figure the Knicks to make some calls and that Curry's future in New York is hardly guaranteed.

Back to Bulls' issues

Because Mondays are "What if" days in the NBA--for me, anyway--and this is a job someone has to do, I'm often asked what is the most realistic deal for the Bulls. All of them, I explain.

But it seems more likely that Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Garnett will remain with their teams, but this is the NBA, so you never say never.

Instead, if you are looking for one big-time player who could be most available, it may be Seattle's high-scoring, 6-foot-10-inch Rashard Lewis, who has had uneasy times with his team and supposedly will opt out of his contract next summer. The Sonics say they want to keep him, though they're also working on retaining Chris Wilcox and just last week NBA Commissioner David Stern indicated a possible move or sale of the financially unstable team.

Lewis told Seattle reporters last week he wasn't sure the Sonics could afford him. Added Ray Allen: "We've been the leaders of this team ever since I got here, but maybe he wants to do something else with rest of his career."

Some believe a deal would make sense for Seattle, which blames many of its problems this season on contract uncertainty with players. "We had guys this year (Vladimir Radmanovic, Reggie Evans and Ronald Murray) who didn't know whether they were going to be here, and that affected not only them, but everybody else too," Lewis said.

Lewis is primarily a small forward, the Bulls' most solid position with Luol Deng and Andres Nocioni. But there's no reason Deng couldn't develop into a shooting guard and give the Bulls a big perimeter lineup. Would the Sonics be interested in Tyson Chandler and the Bulls' two No. 1 picks with Seattle giving the Bulls back their lottery pick, which should be in the middle range?

Then the Bulls could go out in free agency for a defensive center like Joel Przybilla or Nazr Mohammed, both of whom are said to be interested in Chicago. The Bulls still would have a lottery pick while the Sonics get two and Chandler. It might make sense for them to deal a player they may not be able to re-sign and thus could be a distraction next season.

Cavs-Bulls flashback?

How appropriate would this be: LeBron James plays the Bulls in his first playoff on his way to being the next Michael Jordan?

It was against the Cavs in 1989 that Jordan made that big game-winning shot that moved him among the elite players with playoff success. James now needs that. It was always the Bulls spoiling the Cavs' seasons. Could it happen again? It will if the Bulls can jump to the fifth seed, behind the fourth-seeded Cavs.

The NBA already seems to be looking for Cleveland in the second round, which likely would mean a matchup with the Pistons. NBA Vice President Stu Jackson last week admitted the NBA is watching the behavior of the teams after several incidents this season in which Rasheed Wallace and Zydrunas Ilgauskas clashed. Last week Anderson Varejao took a cheap shot at Wallace, clearly retaliation for Wallace's takedowns of Ilgauskas in a February game.

An underlying issue is the attitude within the Cleveland team. There were whispers of teammates not standing up for Ilgauskas, who went after Wallace on his own the next time the teams played, which in a scheduling quirk was the next day. And this time it was another international player, Varejao, who stepped up.

Detroit doings

Little was made of Ben Wallace's refusing to enter a game earlier this month because Wallace is no Darius Miles. But it did raise a quiet concern around the Pistons. One of Larry Brown's strengths was rewarding his hard-working players and giving Wallace more touches on offense and plays than he has ever had. Flip Saunders is more of a traditional NBA coach who likes to ride a hot hand or go with his established scorers. That has been at the core of Wallace's frustrations this season.

"That championship year we had, everybody played," Wallace said. "It wasn't trying to win with one or two guys. We used everybody that we had, including our bench. That's the only way you can win in this league."

Double dribbles

The Warriors' Jason Richardson has confirmed that it hurts to dunk. Said Richardson: "When you dunk it hard and come down screaming, `Ahhhhh,' everybody gets into it. But you're really screaming, `Ahhhhh, my arm!'" George Gervin used to say he developed his finger roll because he hurt his hand so often dunking. . . . One of the NBA's good guys, the Kings' Shareef Abdur-Rahim, should get to the playoffs for the first time after 743 games and counting. He is the all-time active leader and second all-time to Tom Van Arsdale, who played 929 games without going to the playoffs. . . . The Bulls see Orlando on Monday. Dwight Howard, making a run to become the youngest rebounding champion, had 26 rebounds Saturday against the 76ers. If he averages 20 in the last two games, he'll pass the idle Garnett. Howard's 26 was a league season high.

Coach TruWarrior

Ron Artest doesn't always make sense, but he knows the game. And when he shut down Carmelo Anthony on Saturday in an easy Kings win, he clearly identified why the Nuggets' top player isn't yet a true NBA star and why Denver is a likely first-round casualty.

Said Artest, who held Anthony to 15 points: "I wish I had a chance to work with him. Hopefully, one day I can be a coach and coach a guy like Carmelo. He's got to move a little more, pass to his teammates a little more, do more without the ball. If you're not scoring, do something else. I would tell him that, but I don't want to give him too many of my tips. He got frustrated a couple of times when he got passed up, but that happens sometimes. You just keep playing."

----------

sasmith@tribune.com

Fool
04-17-2006, 08:37 AM
I was just going to post this.

Slick Pinkham
04-17-2006, 08:56 AM
I've been telling Isiah from Day One, having a point guard and having a center who rebounds and defends are the two critical areas for any team.

Trading for an all-star power forward fills neither of those two critical areas.

Jermaine can play center, of course, but he seems to get too banged up when ask to do that every game.

I'm not buying it, and I can't see Larry wanting Curry (a lazy player by everyone's account) and I can't see Larry or Donny eagerly dealing with Isiah.

This just won't happen unless Jermaine DEMANDS a trade, which is unlikely.

Unclebuck
04-17-2006, 09:09 AM
There is nothing in this next article about the Pacers, but I found it rather interesting.
http://www.nwherald.com/print/285874929786006.php


Building an NBA title contender



Two NBA figures personify the options available to Bulls general manager John Paxson during what will be a crucial summer for the franchise.

One is Kevin Garnett, the Minnesota Timberwolves' superstar who could be available in a trade.

The other is Joe Dumars.

Paxson held Dumars in high regard when the two played for the Bulls and Detroit Pistons, respectively, and he continues to admire Dumars now that the two are general managers for those same franchises.

Paxson credits Dumars for putting together a group that wins with balance and chemistry, rather than by relying on a superstar.

Hence the temptation to not trade what could be the No. 1 overall draft pick – which the Bulls acquired from New York in the Eddy Curry deal last fall – or the Bulls' own pick, which could fall in the top 15.

And hence the temptation to use the team's salary-cap space to sign two productive players in free agency, rather than use that cap space to fit in the salary of a superstar who would come via trade.

All of that is tempting. But so is Garnett.

"All I can say is we expect to have different directions that we can go in this summer," Paxson said. "What we have to decide is which would allow us to achieve our ultimate goal – to become a championship contender, and sustain that long-term."

Garnett, whose contract runs through 2008-09 at $20 million a season, might end up on the market after two consecutive disappointing seasons with the Timberwolves.

With career averages of 20.4 points on 49 percent shooting and 11.2 rebounds, the 11-year veteran would instantly become the Bulls' best player since Michael Jordan.

He would fill the Bulls' biggest need, a low-post player who can score, and he would energize a fan base that has not seen the team win so much as a playoff series since 1998.

The Bulls would have to pay a price in return for all that, however. Garnett conceivably could cost them either Ben Gordon or Luol Deng, plus Tyson Chandler and the Knicks' draft choice.

"[Superstars are] great to have, but they don't assure you a championship," Skiles said. "If you don't have the right pieces around them, you can struggle. I can think of at least three or four guys who would be considered superstars who will probably end up with losing records [this season]."

Garnett, Philadelphia's Allen Iverson and Boston's Paul Pierce all fit that description. So, arguably, do Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal, Seattle's Ray Allen and Houston's Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady.

None of Detroit's players can compare to the aforementioned players individually, but the Pistons have been to the last two NBA Finals.

Many around the league think Dumars' blueprint is spreading, citing as examples the Bulls and other rising young teams such as Orlando and Memphis.

Bulls assistant coach John Bach, a coach on one level or another for 53 years, said that kind of team actually is a throwback.

"If you go back to the Boston Celtics teams that won all those championships [in the 1960s], you'll see that they won because of the way they played together and fed off each other," Bach said. "They didn't have that one guy who really dominated. [Bill] Russell dominated defensively, but that's all."

The resounding success of larger-than-life players Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Jordan helped change the prototype. Teams began concentrating scouting efforts on landing the one player who could take them to the top.

The Pistons' recent success in dethroning the Los Angeles Lakers, who rode Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant, might have taken teams' approach toward franchise-building back in the other direction.

"You have guys, like LeBron [James], who may take it back the other way again," Bach said. "But that may not be for another few years. Like a lot of things in life and sports, it's probably cyclical."

If so, Dumars is more responsible than anybody else for the current cycle.

The Pistons' general manager traded stars such as Grant Hill and Jerry Stackhouse for players who were less heralded, such as Ben Wallace and Richard Hamilton. He signed Chauncey Billups when Billups was considered a journeyman and took a chance on Tayshaun Prince in the draft.

Those players – along with Rasheed Wallace, who also came in a trade – have coalesced into the Eastern Conference's team of the decade thus far.

"These guys aren't five stiffs from off the street," Dumars said. "They're excellent players. But the key was their willingness and ability to mesh with each other and the ability of our coaches [Larry Brown and now Flip Saunders] to help that process along."

Paxson does not want to sound arrogant by predicting the same success for the Bulls' current nucleus, but he thinks players such as Kirk Hinrich, Gordon and Deng can grow together into something impressive.

They would need help, of course, and long-term support could come this summer in the form of a top draft pick such as LaMarcus Aldridge, as well as free agents such as Al Harrington and Joel Przybilla.

"I've tried to use this year to evaluate where we are as a team and what we need to get better," Paxson said. "I've seen plenty of things to like and certainly areas where we need to improve. How we go about doing that, obviously, is the question.

"Any number of things could happen, but I'm not dead-set on radically changing the direction we're going in. You have to take everything into account and project where this team can go from here."

The basketball purist in Paxson and Skiles ultimately may tell them to go with the Detroit model, but that example will not be easy to replicate.

Other teams – the Charlotte Bobcats and New Orleans Hornets, for example – also feature balanced rosters without players who dominate the offense. Neither will make the playoffs this season, and neither might make it anytime soon.

"If you're going to have a team of role players, you'd better have a team of guys who truly understand their roles," NBA analyst and former Bulls guard Steve Kerr said.

Kerr would know, having been an archetypal role player during his career.

"Detroit has guys who do their jobs consistently night in and night out," Kerr said. "They don't necessarily have that one single player who can cover up other guys' mistakes, but it doesn't matter because they make few mistakes."

Kerr looks at the Bulls as currently constituted and sees a team that could move into the upper tier of the NBA when players such as Hinrich and Gordon mature and become steadier and more well-rounded.

However, although it is easy to envision Hinrich and Gordon in multiple all-star games, the odds say neither will make as big an impact as Garnett could make under the right circumstances.

"You can scout or coach for 25 years and not get a player like that," Kerr said. "The thought of putting him on your team and seeing what you can do with him has to be appealing."

As Kerr said, Garnett would help the Bulls improve more rapidly than they would by trying to follow the Pistons' model. But nobody knows whether he ultimately would take them farther.

The pressure involved in such decisions is why Paxson gets paid a lot of money.


By NICK HUT

nhut@nwherald.com

Mourning
04-17-2006, 10:19 AM
Curry, Channing Frye and a first rounder for JO and Tinsley? Although it'sNew York we are talking about here, which makes a deal a little more unlikely I would atleast have to think about it. I would certainly not immediately dismiss it. IF this happens then keeping Foster is CRUCIAL and we need to get a veteran player with some serious leadership capabilities.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

RWB
04-17-2006, 10:50 AM
Somehow throw Crawford's name into the mix and my ears may perk up somewhat.

Skaut_Ech
04-17-2006, 11:09 AM
Thanks for the articles, guys. Good reads.

This quote stuck out to me:

""[Superstars are] great to have, but they don't assure you a championship," Skiles said. "If you don't have the right pieces around them, you can struggle. I can think of at least three or four guys who would be considered superstars who will probably end up with losing records [this season]."

Garnett, Philadelphia's Allen Iverson and Boston's Paul Pierce all fit that description. So, arguably, do Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal, Seattle's Ray Allen and Houston's Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady."

I think the superstar model was shattered by expansion as much as anything. I think the league has gotten so diluted that a lot of teams only have one true stud player, but the role players are weaker than years past with the slow shift away from fundamentals in basketball.

Although Garnett is appealing, I'd stay the course if I were them. They just don't have the depth to give up Gordon, but I would look long and hard at it. If you can get Sweetney to man the middle and play smarter, it might be worth it to get Garnett.

Look at me. It's been more fun to watch the Bulls of late than the Pacers. How sad is that?

Anthem
04-17-2006, 11:17 AM
Somehow throw Crawford's name into the mix and my ears may perk up somewhat.
Yeah, mine too. Right before I get the tickle in the back of my throat that means I have to vomit.

Does NY even HAVE a draft pick?

btowncolt
04-17-2006, 11:18 AM
Yeah, mine too. Right before I get the tickle in the back of my throat that means I have to vomit.

Does NY even HAVE a draft pick?

I think they still have a 2nd rounder in 2349. But I don't remember the specifics of the Francis trade anymore.

Jermaniac
04-17-2006, 12:03 PM
Sam Smith has no idea what the hell he is talking about. He just makes stuff up out of no where. Just ask the Bulls fans.

Doug
04-17-2006, 12:06 PM
but the role players are weaker than years past with the slow shift away from fundamentals in basketball.

Very insightful! While I think we've all noticed the erosion of fundamentals, that's a very nice observation that it is particularly significant in the role players.

It's tough to be a rebounding role player when you don't know how to box out. Or become a defensive specialist if you don't know how to position your feet or direct your man to the help or rotate correctly. Or a shooter/scorer if you can't hit a mid-range jumper. Role players tend to develop a bit later after they have picked up a fair bit of experience. And since "kids these days" tend to just rely on their physical skills - jumping, quickness - they don't seem as interested in picking up the basketball skills that usually go along with years in the league.

CableKC
04-17-2006, 12:08 PM
I am sure that I have brought it up before....but I've read this article before about Eddy Curry on CNNsi written by the knowledgeable folks at 82games.com . Its a very good read about how Eddy Curry maybe pretty solid as an offensive player....but what you see now....is pretty much what you are going to get for the rest of his career.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/82games/11/04/knicks/index.html

He sucks at rebounding and Shotblocking for a guy that is 7+ feet tall.

I'm only half way through the article and the only thing that I can say is....NO ON CURRY. As a matter of fact.....NO ON ANY TRADE with the Knicks.

CableKC
04-17-2006, 12:19 PM
You would figure that if the Bulls have the chance to draft someone and to also sign a top Free Agent....that they would do that instead of trying to make a run for KG or even JONeal.

They seem to be in the position to get that player ( if not multiple players ) that they think they need while still contending for a playoff...if not Championship spot.

I know that teams like Orlando would prefer to trade their pick for some veteran help this offseason.....but I would think that very few teams like the Bulls have the opportunity to not only draft a top 3 player but still sign a top tier Free Agent.

Moses
04-17-2006, 12:35 PM
The Pacers wont trade Jermaine ONeal unless it is for KG or some other type of low post player. The Knicks have nobody we want.

PacerMan
04-17-2006, 12:59 PM
Somehow throw Crawford's name into the mix and my ears may perk up somewhat.

So you want to add TWO headcases to the team instead of one??
No thanks.

RWB
04-17-2006, 01:05 PM
So you want to add TWO headcases to the team instead of one??
No thanks.

I have to admit I haven't kept up on the Knicks much. Didn't know Crawford was that bad of a team mate. The games I have seen Crawford appears to have a consistent looking shot and can hit while being guarded well. This all hinged on getting rid of Jack as well.

Mourning
04-17-2006, 01:12 PM
The Pacers wont trade Jermaine ONeal unless it is for KG or some other type of low post player. The Knicks have nobody we want.

Ehmmm... I'm DEFINITELY interested in Frye! When I see our current team then I see a mix of young players with a good amount of upside and a group of players that have about reached their peak or either aging or getting dangerously close to injury-prone (if they aren't that already).

Let's see, we don't have large amounts of money to attract FA's and we haven't been very active in that section anyways in the past, except for some decent role players. So, the only means in my opinion to significantly improve the team is by either making sign & trades, trades or good drafting.

Well we have a reputation of making good picks, even when they aren't high ones. However, I think we are deluding ourselves if we think we will be significantly upgrading the team via that way. We can improve in that way, but it won't be drastically and it won't be rapid either. Think more long term for that.

We have enough material to make trades aswell as sign & trades. I think our team as contructed now has no future, so there will be some changes to come in the summer. I say let's throw it over drastically and try to do a S&T with Peja and say AJ or make it a double S&T with Peja and Freddie and try to get a real quality starting PG in return.

I'm through with Tinsley. Loved how he was, but in my opinion he is so inconsistant and his health is so unreliable for such a long time now that it is CRUCIAL to get him replaced this summer. That won't be easy as other teams aren't blind and know his injury past when they look at his contract. So, we will have to give them something to make them bite.

JO is our starplayer, but does he play enough to commend the salary he is making? Not to mention is he adequately equipped emotionally and also by example to lead this team? I always thought so, but I'm having serious doubts after this season. He will remain an absolute top PF in the league for several years, but do we want to keep paying him that salary while in the meantime we are not going to be contending for anytime soon, straining our financial possibilities even further?

I have thought about this trade for a few hours and ... yes, I would be moderately positive about it. I like Frye. He brings rebounding both offensive and defensive and he brings offensive from the PF position and shoots his free throws very well, while he's only 22 and in his rookie year. And he's doing it in a franchise that puts tremendous pressure on anybody who plays there and with a coach that doesn't like rookies and emphasizes defense aswell.

Now Eddie Curry. I have reservations about him. But, let's get real what do we have at center now? We don't want JO to play there, but he has to, because Pollard is injured a lot of the time and David is learning and progressing, but that goes slowly as it usually does with centers. Curry essentially brings us a good offensive option at center, together with David that makes our center position pretty offensive oriented, except if we put up Jeff out of position there against certain matchups.
On itself that's not as bad as it looks as long as we have a PF and a SF who know how to rebound and actually do it aswell. I think with Granger, Frye and Foster we have those players.

Another advantage of this trade is that our financial situation will look a lot better. Especially if we can convince Austin to stay for a normal amount of money after next season, which would create space for resigning both Danny and Channing.

Btw when do the Knicks have a first rounder again they can give away? And I'm not in the least interested in Crawford. I don't see the use for getting him really.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

owl
04-17-2006, 01:44 PM
But] I've been telling Isiah from Day One, having a point guard and having a center who rebounds and defends are the two critical areas for any team."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

The Pacers could use one of those also. Eddie Curry is not it.
I think Harrison is a very similar player to Curry. The other issue is
Curry and his potential for a heart condition being present.
I would not take that risk.

owl

Eindar
04-17-2006, 01:46 PM
Frye, Crawford, and a future 1st, maybe 2, would be enough for me to get them JO.

Doug in CO
04-17-2006, 02:30 PM
havven't they traded most of their first round picks?

grace
04-17-2006, 02:30 PM
I'm sure I've said this somewhere before. No way in hell should Eddy Curry come to the Pacers. Why? Little injuries to the Pacers turn into ongoing serious stuff. Imagine what that would do with Eddy's heart condition. :dead:

Jermaniac
04-17-2006, 02:34 PM
Seriously how many of you have seen Channing Frye play? You think JO doesnt play in the post. Wait till you see Frye.

DisplacedKnick
04-17-2006, 04:05 PM
Does NY even HAVE a draft pick?

2 1st rd picks this summer.

Doug
04-17-2006, 04:13 PM
2 1st rd picks this summer.
We'll give you Tinsley and Freddie for them. Y'all need more guards.

Lord Helmet
04-17-2006, 04:45 PM
I don't want Frye.

D-BONE
04-17-2006, 06:52 PM
What's the rub on Crawford? Selfish? I'm aware of his rep as being a total me-first offensive player (even more noticeable when he plays the point). Is there other stuff?

On the other hand, appears he and LB have come to a good understanding which MAY indicate he's overcome some of his previous tendencies. Matured so to speak.

I'd say he's definitely 5X better than any guard we have. Don't know if we'd want him, but just an observation.

Kegboy
04-17-2006, 08:50 PM
I could see Rick doing some really interesting things with a Jamaal Crawford. But my sister's right, the second Curry put on a Pacers uni he'd drop dead.

Skaut_Ech
04-18-2006, 08:00 AM
Not to start playing the RealGM game, but financially, Channing Frye & Steve Francis for Jermaine works. Would you all do it? I'd really think hard about it.

I mention Curry in the same breath as Olowokandi and Kwame Brown: potentially game altering players who don't seem to have the drive and bball smart to ever realize their potential.

If we WERE to make major moves, that would leave us with 4 PGs and one more deal to make, imo. With Darrell Armstrong getting long in the tooth and a wealth of centers, I bet Dallas would LOVE to have a proven guy like AJ as a backup. We would get a legit 7 footer like Diop or DJ MBenga (a diamond in the rough, imho.) and this team would have a very nice makeover with a lineup of

Francis
Stephen Jackson
Peja/Granger
Frye
Diop/Harrison

Actually, in terms of a small move, I wonder how something small like a simply AJ for MBenga or Pavel Podkolzin would affect this team.

Just thinking out loud.

vapacersfan
04-18-2006, 10:35 AM
Not to start playing the RealGM game, but financially, Channing Frye & Steve Francis for Jermaine works. Would you all do it? I'd really think hard about it.

I mention Curry in the same breath as Olowokandi and Kwame Brown: potentially game altering players who don't seem to have the drive and bball smart to ever realize their potential.

If we WERE to make major moves, that would leave us with 4 PGs and one more deal to make, imo. With Darrell Armstrong getting long in the tooth and a wealth of centers, I bet Dallas would LOVE to have a proven guy like AJ as a backup. We would get a legit 7 footer like Diop or DJ MBenga (a diamond in the rough, imho.) and this team would have a very nice makeover with a lineup of

Francis
Stephen Jackson
Peja/Granger
Frye
Diop/Harrison

Actually, in terms of a small move, I wonder how something small like a simply AJ for MBenga or Pavel Podkolzin would affect this team.

Just thinking out loud.

As much as Artest had a negative impact (thanks Jay) on the Pacers over his tenure here, Francis could match that, if not beat it.

We do not need anything to do with Stevie Franchise, and this is coming from a person who loved him when he played at Maryland.

Fool
04-18-2006, 10:55 AM
You've got the Mavs trading Diop for AJ?

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3082/ripsheed8zc.jpg

Skaut_Ech
04-18-2006, 11:02 AM
As much as Artest had a negative impact (thanks Jay) on the Pacers over his tenure here, Francis could match that, if not beat it.

We do not need anything to do with Stevie Franchise, and this is coming from a person who loved him when he played at Maryland.

Now that I really think about it, Im with you. I started remembering all the crap he pulled just this year alone.

RWB
04-18-2006, 11:07 AM
Considering what JO makes, realistically how many teams would be interested? Does anyone here believe he plays to that level? I'd have to say no.

Fool
04-18-2006, 11:42 AM
If he was playing to the level of his pay, you guys wouldn't want to trade him.

Mourning
04-18-2006, 12:35 PM
I haven't looked it up yet, but it seems nobody is really interested in Curry.
It seems interest is higher in trying to get Frye & Crawford, but NOT Curry.

Maybe it would make sense to involve a third team that has interest in acquiring a SG and could supply us with a center or strong PF? Maybe, we could deal Stephen to say Denver for some frontcourt help (which we will need with JO leaving and I don't really see Scot playing a major role either). Meanwhile, we get Crawford to strengthen the SG rotation aswell as the PG rotation, Frye at PF that together with Crawford, Granger and Harrison makes up a nice young rotation with a lot of talent NOW and much more potential (yes, the feared "P"-word) for the future.

I figure we should be able to get atleast one first rounder from the Knicks, I think DK wrote they have two this summer. Dump Tins and his injuries on them and sacrifice JO. Painfull, but I think it's necessary as we will feel the strain of his contract more and more, while he doesn't play without injury either.

We get rid of Tins and Jax and sacrifice JO. We get back a of now un known PF or C from say the Nuggets, Crawford, Frye and a good pick, maybe more.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

able
04-18-2006, 12:49 PM
If we do what you (Mourning) are suggesting then we are for sure a lottery team, likely for a number of years to come.

Frye for JO ?????

no matter what you throw in, it remains a trade so ugly only the head of LB on a silver platter and a tomato in his mouth would satisfy my lust for revenge.

Most likely however it would not satisfy the Simons'

Mourning
04-18-2006, 01:02 PM
Or we could do something like this ...

DISCLAIMER!!! AN EVEN MOOOOOORE UNPOPULAR idea coming up (is that even possible?)!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Incoming
Maurice Taylor
6-9 PF from Michigan
6.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.9 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +3.2 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and -2.2 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Maurice Taylor
6-9 PF from Michigan
6.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.9 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: -3.2 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and +2.2 apg.

Offcourse, we WANT their best pick for this summer aswell.

Tayler is A-W-F-U-L-L-!-!-! ;). Not too mention his contract is *******ed ugly! BUT, he will also be entering his last year aswell which makes things for us a lot more interesting with Bender and Croshere's contracts also running out in the summer of 2007. That means a HUGE amount of salary that comes off our salarycap this puts us into position to at the very least resign all of our own FA's to the longest and if needed highest contracts.

I don't know our exact salary for that summer, because so much depends on other things this summer (do we sign Peja to a contract or do we let him go or do we deal him in an S&T? Do we resign Freddie or Scot? And this is without any other trades).

One serious disclaimer before this deal could happen:

"Uh Oh! Some of the players selected in this scenario have restrictions which prevent them from being traded at this time. This may prevent the trade from occuring. If you would like to see if this trade would work after all of the expirations have concluded please press the continue button, otherwise click here to try a new trade.

(Maurice Taylor from New York) Taylor is in the last non-exercisable year of his contract and cannot be traded. However, next season is currently an early termination option and if is not exercised, then the player can be traded."

Ok, everybody ... go and shoot me now :D :D :D. I'm pretty sure I am going to get a LOT of burn for this :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Mourning
04-18-2006, 01:12 PM
If we do what you (Mourning) are suggesting then we are for sure a lottery team, likely for a number of years to come.

Frye for JO ?????

no matter what you throw in, it remains a trade so ugly only the head of LB on a silver platter and a tomato in his mouth would satisfy my lust for revenge.

Most likely however it would not satisfy the Simons'

Never said it was beautifull, but I don't believe in a major part of our most important players anymore. In concrete words Stephen and Tinsley. JO is a good player, but I don't think we can afford him until the end of his contract AND build a serious contender around him with all the other pieces we have.

Granted we sacrifice a lot and I have no doubt we would suck BALLS next year. On the other hand there are going to be enough minutes for our younger players, so they could continue developing and we get a decent to good pick next year too.

I think the year after that will look a LOT better with Granger in his 3rd year, Frye in his 3rd year, David in his 4th year the two picks from this summer in their 2nd year.

We can resign all of our own players without a problem and without getting into luxury tax-land. Not unimportant when you keep in mind Walsh's comments on trying to seriously lower payroll. Do you think with the team nowhere NEAR beying a contender they can defend this payroll? I have serious trouble believing that.

Also take a look at the rest of the Central division. The next year and the years afterward the competition will only get stronger aswell, because almost all those teams are made up of a core of younger players that mostly will develop and some talented players who lead the pack. Those teams will improve. Just this summer to land a nice player won't be enough if we want to keep up in the long run. I say sacrifice one year, sort of like what Denver did, but less extreme and then get back rivigorated (sp?).

What's absolutely crucial with this young team is that we get ATLEAST one veteran on the roster that has a positive influence on the other guys and can lead and get the others to listen on the floor aswell.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

PacerMan
04-18-2006, 04:15 PM
Or we could do something like this ...

DISCLAIMER!!! AN EVEN MOOOOOORE UNPOPULAR idea coming up (is that even possible?)!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Indiana Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Incoming
Maurice Taylor
6-9 PF from Michigan
6.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.9 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +3.2 ppg, -0.1 rpg, and -2.2 apg.


New York Trade Breakdown
Outgoing
Maurice Taylor
6-9 PF from Michigan
6.2 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 17.9 minutes
Jamal Crawford
6-5 SG from Michigan
14.0 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 3.7 apg in 32.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
12.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.8 apg in 24.2 minutes
Incoming
Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 PF from Eau Claire (HS)
20.0 ppg, 9.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 35.4 minutes
Jamaal Tinsley
6-3 PG from Iowa State
9.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 5.0 apg in 26.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: -3.2 ppg, +0.1 rpg, and +2.2 apg.

Offcourse, we WANT their best pick for this summer aswell.

Tayler is A-W-F-U-L-L-!-!-! ;). Not too mention his contract is *******ed ugly! BUT, he will also be entering his last year aswell which makes things for us a lot more interesting with Bender and Croshere's contracts also running out in the summer of 2007. That means a HUGE amount of salary that comes off our salarycap this puts us into position to at the very least resign all of our own FA's to the longest and if needed highest contracts.

I don't know our exact salary for that summer, because so much depends on other things this summer (do we sign Peja to a contract or do we let him go or do we deal him in an S&T? Do we resign Freddie or Scot? And this is without any other trades).

One serious disclaimer before this deal could happen:

"Uh Oh! Some of the players selected in this scenario have restrictions which prevent them from being traded at this time. This may prevent the trade from occuring. If you would like to see if this trade would work after all of the expirations have concluded please press the continue button, otherwise click here to try a new trade.

(Maurice Taylor from New York) Taylor is in the last non-exercisable year of his contract and cannot be traded. However, next season is currently an early termination option and if is not exercised, then the player can be traded."

Ok, everybody ... go and shoot me now :D :D :D. I'm pretty sure I am going to get a LOT of burn for this :).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:


You forgot that Crawford is awful too. NOt to mention a ball hog with no shot selection. He's no PG either.
Big PASS.

able
04-18-2006, 07:33 PM
You forgot that Crawford is awful too. NOt to mention a ball hog with no shot selection. He's no PG either.
Big PASS.
Not only that; Bender comes of the payroll this year, so does Pollard.

Furthermore is it absolute madness to trade one of the best big man in the league for crap and unproven hype.

I prefer to go in to the next year with Peja and JO as the nucleus of this team, get rid of Jax and if must be then Tins, though I sincerely doubt we will be able to replace him with someone close to his quality.
I'd prefer to know why he has these freak injuries and that while he is well prepared (he worked all summer with Kevin) coming into camp.
If he was the only one I'd blame him, but if yo ucount the number of injuries and the likelyhood to that in total on the team I prefer to look at other things.

Tins is also known to play through pain and injured, even seriously, so it is not that he is of fragile mind and can not play enduring pain.

I don't believe we have a player that has not been injured this year, one way or another, playing with it or not, that should be more then enough to question some other things then the player(s).

I am all for re-signing Scott for a reasonable amount, if he wants to continue for a few more years, not only is he a good guy, he's also servicable and that is important.

At the moment we only have 13 guys on the roster, one of them is Eddie Gill and one of them is Sara. that leaves 11, where Jones and Pollard have expiring contracts, leaves 9
For Jax we need to urgently find a new home, despite Rick's love for him (I've was most amazed that the tele-crew on the Charlotte game (Bocats crew) said out loud that they were amazed that Jax was on the floor at the start of OT after he so blatantly broke the play and refused to pass the ball to an open JO. but it signifies a lot, namely that Jax can do this when he wants without repurcussion, and it happens more then once every night.

so that leaves 8 Jeff and Cro stay, so does JO and Peja shall be re-signed, Hulk and Granger are going nowhere, leaves Tinsley and AJ

Don't be amazed if Jax is traded for a servicable SG while Danny starts at SG, or SF and Peja moving to SG (on offense, change over on defense)

some 3 for 2 or 3 for 1 trades may be possible, but do not expect JO to be traded for anything but KG or TD, the way he's playing now, I would not even trade him for KG.

But then again, I would not trade Tinsley either, but get a decent med and training staff.