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8.9_seconds
04-15-2006, 06:44 PM
This is the "How well do you Like..."thread. There's been alot of , in the truest since of the word, 'playa hatin' goin on, and I think it can be attributed to how we're playing. So, I want to know if you like the particular player the thread is dedicated to based not on how they play, but just how you feel and think about them. This way, maybe we can find an official general consensus.


Today's Player: :oneal:


V-O-T-E, if not for JO, how bout me?

Jermaniac
04-15-2006, 06:46 PM
I cant stand him.

317Kim
04-15-2006, 06:50 PM
I love the guy. He makes me :dance2:

8.9_seconds
04-15-2006, 06:52 PM
;)
I cant stand him.


I can tell by all your posts. Sometimes I just want to be like "Whoa Jerm, settle down man, we're gettin KG next summer." You really need to stop being so hard on him ;).

J_2_Da_IzzO
04-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Best player on team. Top 3 PF. Top 10 player. Elite shot blocker. Dont like him much tho.

Shade
04-15-2006, 07:54 PM
;)


I can tell by all your posts. Sometimes I just want to be like "Whoa Jerm, settle down man, we're gettin KG next summer." You really need to stop being so hard on him ;).

Garnettiac. I like it. ;)

Fireball Kid
04-15-2006, 08:03 PM
I like him as a player. Right now, I think hes top 5/6 out of all PF's in the NBA when hes healthy. If he could rebound the ball more, I'd like him a little more.

But, something tells me that he will start to really decline in a year or two.

sunsun
04-15-2006, 08:50 PM
:D :D :D :D because of him...i know NBA and like PACERS....
no matter what's happen...i always like him...he have a lovely babyface

ReGGiesBoOmBaby
04-15-2006, 08:58 PM
YES!! JO is one of my favorite athletes of all time.

beast23
04-15-2006, 11:13 PM
I'm stuck in the middle of the road regarding Jermaine.

He has a nice game, but has his flaws as well. He is taking fewer turnaround jumpers this year, which I appreciate a great deal. He is starting to take the ball to the rim again, which I think should be a big part of his offensive game. I'm pleased with his defensive contributions, especially his help defense.

I detest that he almost never boxes out for rebounds. IMO, this one flaw is huge, and for me anyway, probably negates 25% of the good things that he accomplishes.

However, where I see a big problem brewing is in the fact that he has been proclaimed the leader of the team. The problem that I have is that he hasn't led by example; he's just tried to be vocal in his "leadership" role. He's been terrible about arguing with officials, and has lost focus on the court at times.

BUT... over the last few games, I have to give him credit. He's come to play and has kept his mouth shut. Although he's still not blocking out, he is going after almost every board. If he were to give this same kind of effort and focus 100% of the time, then I think he could become the leader that we need.

But we are approaching summer, where trades are made. Although JO claims he isn't going anywhere, is his new-found on court focus too little, too late? Or, will he remain with the team and actually earn the leadership tag that has been gifted to him? Because if he's here next year, and reverts back to his former self, then I think we have problems. We will once again have a leaderless team, unless someone else has stepped up by then.

So for me the jury is still out. I abstained from voting.

vapacersfan
04-15-2006, 11:27 PM
I am not really sure if you are looking for a response to your question or just a vote in the poll, but Ill go ahead and add this.

I think JO is a good player, and probably a top 15 player, as long as it is not in the 4th quarter.

When is the last time you saw JO hit a clutch shot? Game winning shot?

I have to add a disclaimer here: A lot of people may think we are to harsh on JO, but when the man is make some 15 million dollars a season, and 8th or 9th highest player in the league, I think its fair to say we have high expectations for JO.

I have to go back almost two years to his shot against the Pistons (Reggie Miller era) when the shot was reviewed. Granted I have a bad memory, but that is kind of sad.

Now I never thought I would agree with those who called him “anti-clutch”, but I really am starting to get that feeling.

Ok, I am sure I will get blasted for that, but moving on.

JO is a great help-side defender. This is one of the main things I fear we will lose should the day come when we trade Jermaine. I cant count the number of times in a game when a guard gets beat off the dribble, and JO comes over to block the shot, or just alter the shot (which I do consider the equivalent of a block).

The only flaw I have to his defense is the fact he does not box out. I am sure this topic has been exhausted on this forum, but not only would this help his stats, even if he doesn’t get the rebound one of his teammates could. Thus it would help not only JO, but also the team. I am not sure if no one has taught him how to box out, or if he is just plain lazy and doesn’t want to, but the man doesn’t do it. It drives me bonkers.

Onto his offense. I have always loved JO’s offense, but I really think he needs to live in the post more often. Ever since his last come back, I have been really happy with the new JO (more on that later). When JO is able to make that 15-17 foot jump shot, that just opens up the whole floor and forced the oppositions big man to come out and frees up the middle for the guards to penetrate.

Now to one thing I LOVE that JO has picked up: passing out of the post. I was never sure if JO could do it, at least it seemed like JO would take a shot even if he had 5 defender tacking him. But I have always felt that JO could be a triple-double thread every night if he would just learn to see the floor and make that pass. And lately he has done that, and I love it. I would like to see him not get fooled on that stupid “pull the chair out from him” gimmick more often, but maybe that was just something that caught him by surprise today. At least I hope so.

The last thing that I think must be said when discussing JO is his leadership. I think JO has said all the right things. He has said everything we want to hear, and then some. But he has not shown it with his actions, in my opinion. I think he has a ways to go. Sadly I think the reigns were kind of “given” to him from Reggie, and maybe it would have been better to make him earn them a little more.

So in order for him to really become the “legend” that I think some of us want/hope that he does become, he needs to improve in two facets. One is him becoming “more clutch” and the other is his “leadership”. We have seen glimpses of both (I love seeing the big fella dive for a loose ball, I just love that enthusiasm) but not enough, and most certainly not enough this past season. Will getting another “post” player (or developing another player for those of you that like Harrison’s game) help JO’s game out? Only time will tell…..

Jermaniac
04-15-2006, 11:34 PM
Jonk man is back?

Kegboy
04-16-2006, 09:41 AM
VA's back, VA's back!!!

:woohoo:

8.9_seconds
04-16-2006, 11:10 AM
WAI WAI WAI WAI??? VA??

larry
04-16-2006, 01:25 PM
Props 2...
JO, the Pacers Radio Network, the FSN team, Granger, AJ, & Peja.

I'm unhappy w/ the rest of the entire Pacer franchise. Bird & Walsh have made bad moves since LB was hired. Losing Primo, JJ, retaing Artest & taking way to long to deal him. Oh yeah, bringing Saranus over because it's cool to have 4 PGs. The Al 4 Sjax trade? We did manage to get Granger. I just call a spade a spade. All the bloated contracts 4 our players w/ attitude problems. I'm not a giant fan of Robot Carlisle now either.

Bball
04-16-2006, 02:23 PM
JO 'could' be the player we need him to be. He has the ability but he doesn't seem to understand what he needs to do to get there.

JO can pass out of the low post but it is simply that historically he doesn't do it. He'd rather force a shot into any kind of defense once he has the ball. I've always wondered if that was selfishness, bad coaching, a lack of trust in his teammates, or some combination. But as we've seen of late, he can do it and be effective.

I've already stated that I believe JO would be most effective if he thought 'pass first'. He'll still get his points but they'll come from higher percentage shots.

JO's hustle on the court has historically centered around ESPN Sportscenter highlight type hustle plays... not fundamental basketball plays. IE: Flying in from the weakside to block a shot versus blocking out a man on the boards. One it seems he can go out of his way to do, the other it seems he can't be bothered with. *I'd be willing to entertain a discussion that it is this attitude that is a factor in his injuries and his body breaking down on him (trying to rely too much on athleticism rather than just good fundamental basketball).


The posing, whining, and moaning to the refs can stop yesterday. He'll soon learn he'll get more calls if he does that.

Leadership is his greatest failing. And by constantly proclaiming himself the leader he tends to hold others back. He needs to shutup and play the game first... He needs to set an example by hustling, trusting his teammates even if it pains him to do so, and earning their respect. I'm not sure he has their respect.

His lack of oncourt leadership has created a void and probably is the reason we see so much one on one stuff and forced shots from the whole team. Until that void is filled there will constantly be challenges for the leadership role. Some guys will naturally rise to it, others will push their way toward it. But JO is going to have to allow it to happen if he can't naturally fill the void himself. He's creating a vacuum.

Reggie the Deferrer was most likely a bad idea. JO the Deferrer is a good idea... even if he is the 120,000,000.00 man.

It doesn't help that Carlisle doesn't seem to be a strong presence from the bench. He may be calling all the plays, but he sure doesn't look like he's enforcing anything when they are broken down.

It's time, past time really, that JO stop trying to be the star of the team and start trying to be the heart and soul of the team.

His recent spate of injuries is also troubling. We can only hope that is not a sign of things to come. (*See mention above).

Talking about "clutchness", the problem as I see it is that he probably doesn't shoot 20-30% when he's doubleteamed and forces something, especially that fadeaway of his. If everyone in the gym knows he's not going to pass then he is very easy to defend once the ball's in his hands. And in crunch time the refs are more apt to swallow their whistles. So I have little hope of ever seeing JO getting a game-winning/tying bucket.
I'd much rather see a shooter coming off a screen get the ball for a shot than see JO forcing something into a double team with a license to get extra physical. If you are 'forcing' it then you're even less likely to get a call. And if you've whined at the refs all night you are even less likely.

And if that jump shot misses hopefully JO is in position for a putback.

And if he'd pass out of that doubleteam he'd make life easier for himself and the team.. and maybe get the ball back for an easier shot himself. It's the predictable part of the possession I have no faith in him scoring. Once he passes the ball back out, the defense is left to readjust... and could make a mistake and/or lose track of someone or the ball.

As for liking him... I have no particular problem with JO from what I see of him. He's simply something less than we need on the court. Particularly at 120,000,000.00
If we can't get a coach to consistently get him playing the 'right way' then we can only hope he takes a long hard look at some game tapes... and then into a mirror.

He's not getting any younger and I question if it is WYSIUWYG at this point. He also carries some stigma from 11/19. As the leader and supposed face of the franchise he should've been trying to make things better that fateful night, not make them worse. I consider his role worse than SJax to tell you the truth (because the bar is much higher for JO than Sjax).

Lately, he has shown a renewed vigor for mostly playing the right way (I didn't see the Bobcats game tho) but he's had moments in the past too and he ended up right back in the same old mold.

-Bball

vapacersfan
04-16-2006, 02:52 PM
JO's hustle on the court has historically centered around ESPN Sportscenter highlight type hustle plays... not fundamental basketball plays. IE: Flying in from the weakside to block a shot versus blocking out a man on the boards. One it seems he can go out of his way to do, the other it seems he can't be bothered with. *I'd be willing to entertain a discussion that it is this attitude that is a factor in his injuries and his body breaking down on him (trying to rely too much on athleticism rather than just good fundamental basketball).


Sorry, I had to do a double take when I saw this.

I admit I hardly ever watch sportscenter, but since when has sportscenter EVER shown highlights on players diving to the floor for a loose ball.

And if they do indeed show these highlights, do you really think JO (or any player for that matter) thinks "If I dive for the rock right now, ESPN may show me on the 11 o'clock sportscenter top 10 hustle plays"?.....

I have no problem with the times when JO hustles, I just wish he did it more often. I love seeing him dive for a loose ball, or any other hustle plays that show fire and a effort to fire up his teammates

Bball
04-16-2006, 03:10 PM
Sorry, I had to do a double take when I saw this.

I admit I hardly ever watch sportscenter, but since when has sportscenter EVER shown highlights on players diving to the floor for a loose ball.

And if they do indeed show these highlights, do you really think JO (or any player for that matter) thinks "If I dive for the rock right now, ESPN may show me on the 11 o'clock sportscenter top 10 hustle plays"?.....

I have no problem with the times when JO hustles, I just wish he did it more often. I love seeing him dive for a loose ball, or any other hustle plays that show fire and a effort to fire up his teammates

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear... obviously...
No, Sportscenter doesn't show players blocking out, diving to the floor for a loose ball, fighting someone for a rebound, etc...
So JO doesn't do those things typically or consistently...
OTOH, ESPN likes blocked shots, poses, and that type of thing and JO DOES do those things.

And I'm not saying JO makes a concious decision to do those things that get him on Sportscenter, rather I am saying he's simply based his game more around that type of thing because he could rather than immerse himself as well into the parts of basketball that aren't all about athleticism.

-Bball

vapacersfan
04-16-2006, 03:35 PM
Ok, that makes sense. I would tend to agree with that argument Bball.