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View Full Version : Raptors going to be calling about Saras?



sweabs
04-12-2006, 01:43 PM
f

RWB
04-12-2006, 01:48 PM
Smith: Nothin' But (Inter)Net
[I]Doug Smith
As our old friend Butch Carter used to say, you should always look for a dysfunctional team that underachieves and try to pick its carcass clean; the Pacers are just that team.

================================================== =========================


Wow, it was only a short time ago you could find this quote by looking up Raptors. Oh my, how the Pacers have fallen. :blush:

Jon Theodore
04-12-2006, 01:59 PM
1st rounder and mike james please

Hicks
04-12-2006, 02:06 PM
Since Rick is staying, I wouldn't mind transplanting our backcourt to Mike James and Morris Peterson, if that were do-able.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:07 PM
So that, at this time next season, we can complain that "Mike James ain't the guy, either."??

Nah, if they want to give us something for him, we should take it. Call it a failed expiriment, and move on.

Kestas
04-12-2006, 02:13 PM
can a player say no to a trade?

sweabs
04-12-2006, 02:15 PM
f

MagicRat
04-12-2006, 02:16 PM
Since Rick is staying, I wouldn't mind transplanting our backcourt to Mike James and Morris Peterson, if that were do-able.

Do you really think Mike James sounds like a player who would be happy playing for Rick? I sure don't.......

.............................................

James, who came to the Raptors in a deal that sent troubled guard Rafer Alston to Houston, said he's not a typical point guard. And he said he's not changing his game.

"If they did their research on me ... I've been jackin' my whole career. If you didn't like my style of play, you shouldn't have ever traded for me in the first place."

"Everyone is so quick to talk about my shooting, but no one is quick to talk about how over the last five games ... I've been averaging over 10 assists a game.

James said he wants to play for a team that believes in him.

"I'm tired of rebuilding. I believe in my heart I can help a team win an NBA championship.

"I've proved myself enough in this game where I want my own keys," he said.

"I want to be able to roam the yard without no leash on, trusting that I'm not going to hop the fence and I ain't gonna do nothing stupid.

"I'm a veteran. I know how to make plays. I know how to be a point guard. I know how to put myself in great situations. But my thing is, I'm a player, and if being a player ain't enough in this game, I'm sorry."

CableKC
04-12-2006, 02:16 PM
Although I am in the minority and would prefer to keep Sarunas and trade Tinsley....but if a trade had to be made for Sarunas to Toronto.....

Mike James would be a good start assuming that we would be trading Tinsley sometime during the offseason. The problem is that I don't know who else we would have to include that would make sense to Toronto to balence out the trade....unless we include Peja ( which may fit Colangelo's "build Toronto into the Suns style of run/gun and reign 3pt shots" model ). The only offer that I would be reluctantly accept...would be a Sarunas/Peja/filler ( maybe Gill ) type S&T for Mike James/MoPete/Joey Graham ( assuming that SJax is traded and MoPete starts at the SG spot with Granger starting at the SF spot ).

The problem with Mike James is that I don't see him much difference compared to Tinsley....maybe except that he maybe less injury prone and can provide more of a defensive presense then any of our existing Guards. Mike James seems more like a scoring rather then a pass first PG that we all want.

However....if we are looking more for a straight-up trade ( not involving any major players....and assuming that SJax is traded ), then a straight-up swap of Sarunas for MoPete would be reasonable to me. MoPete seems to be a solid 3rd/4th option on a team and doesn't seem to really complain.

sweabs
04-12-2006, 02:19 PM
fg

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:24 PM
can a player say no to a trade?


Certain superstars used to have a "veto" clause in their contracts.

I can't remember if the most recent CBA did away with those.

A player can always throw a tantrum (a la Artest) and scare off the other team's owners. That's a much more useful tool than the veto rights.

MagicRat
04-12-2006, 02:26 PM
MagicRat, that interview was from about a week or two ago. I remember it well, as he was getting quite defensive.

It's because people started QUESTIONING his decision making down the stretch of games like I have pointed out...and that's his problem. He takes some bad shots every once in a while.

However, since that interview I believe he has played very well since then, and more under control.

But it's highly unlikely Rick would ever turn over the "keys" to the offense or allow him "roam the yard without a leash" and he'd end up disgruntled.......

Doug
04-12-2006, 02:29 PM
And he said he's not changing his game.

"If they did their research on me ... I've been jackin' my whole career. If you didn't like my style of play, you shouldn't have ever traded for me in the first place."

After what we've gone through with this roster, why would we want a player like this. No matter what his ability. No thanks.

Now, the Knicks on the other hand... Maybe they can use him and Starbury and Stevie all at once.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:31 PM
But it's highly unlikely Rick would ever turn over the "keys" to the offense or allow him "roam the yard without a leash" and he'd end up disgruntled.......

Is there any PG in the league that wouldn't be disgruntled under Rick?

I think I know the answer: Kenny Anderson - but he's not in the league anymore.

sweabs
04-12-2006, 02:35 PM
g

Unclebuck
04-12-2006, 02:36 PM
Is there any PG in the league that wouldn't be disgruntled under Rick?

I think I know the answer: Kenny Anderson - but he's not in the league anymore.


Billups, Mark Jackson, AJ.

Rick is much easier for a point guard to play for than Larry Brown is

Hicks
04-12-2006, 02:39 PM
Do you really think Mike James sounds like a player who would be happy playing for Rick? I sure don't.......

What rcarey said is what I'm thinking about.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:48 PM
Billups, Mark Jackson, AJ.

Rick is much easier for a point guard to play for than Larry Brown is

I don't know about that.

Larry is absurdly demanding of his PGs because that was his position and he knows it so well. And he knows exactly what he wants from his PG.

And once he teaches his PG what he wants, he is far better at extending his trust. Especially for on-court decisions.

So you get (1) better teaching and coaching for your position, which you can take to your next team/ coach if Brownie get on your nerves.

And you get a coach that trusts you more.

jcouts
04-12-2006, 02:58 PM
if anyone recalls, Mike James did very well as a backup in Larry Brown's system when Detroit won the championship. He and Hunter split backup time at the PG and SG positions.

In my opinion, Brown's system with the Pistons wasn't much different than Carlisle's.

PacerMan
04-12-2006, 02:59 PM
How many of you same guys were *itching about Saras mouthing off earlier this season about team troubles? He was obviously right, and obviously brave enough to open his mouth when his playing time didn't 'really' justify it. I LIKE that, especially as he's been proven 100% correct. I bet LarDon do too. I'm keeping him as my backup pg unless somebody has to have him to complete a deal we want.
Move Jamaal, AJ and Jax to get a primo pg (HOPING), draft a 2. Keep Saras to be the backup pg.

Fool
04-12-2006, 03:03 PM
I don't know about that.

Larry is absurdly demanding of his PGs because that was his position and he knows it so well. And he knows exactly what he wants from his PG.

And once he teaches his PG what he wants, he is far better at extending his trust. Especially for on-court decisions.

So you get (1) better teaching and coaching for your position, which you can take to your next team/ coach if Brownie get on your nerves.

And you get a coach that trusts you more.

I don't think anyone would argue that LB isn't better at developing PGs but you asked who's "easier" to play for. Billups never had a hard time with being 1 of only 2 guys on the court allowed to shoot and I doubt Marbury would fume so much with RC calling his number 46 times a game.

Knucklehead Warrior
04-12-2006, 03:13 PM
After what we've gone through with this roster, why would we want a player like this. No matter what his ability. No thanks.
.

What's not to like? :D He's rafer alston jr isn't he?

SwissExpress
04-12-2006, 03:13 PM
I think he'd retire before going to the Raptors.

In any case, I don't see why Raptors would do it. They already have a rookie-veteran-offensive-minded-Euro-pointguard in Calderon. Calderon is 5 years younger and a better defender. He's not that vocal as Saras, but I don't think they'd bring in Saras for leadership purpose after he wasn't successfull here.

sweabs
04-12-2006, 03:31 PM
fg

SwissExpress
04-12-2006, 03:38 PM
It would be an interesting experiment.
Is the "moving to Phoenix style" based on smth the management said, or is it just some of the usual press/fans speculations after a new manager comes?

sweabs
04-12-2006, 03:44 PM
g

SoupIsGood
04-12-2006, 03:46 PM
Give me James! He's not ideal by any means, I'd rather have a passer. But, a good scorer is better than nothing. If we could start him, and then draft a young PG to develop behind him, that'd be great.

I think Rick would let him shoot all he wants... and why not, his percentages blow the socks off of anyone on this team.

rel
04-12-2006, 04:01 PM
Sarunas, Jermaine, Peja for James, Graham, Bosh, 2007 or 2008 1st Round Pick :)

i have no clue about salaries, just find a way to get ODEN

fwpacerfan
04-12-2006, 04:09 PM
How many of you same guys were *itching about Saras mouthing off earlier this season about team troubles? He was obviously right, and obviously brave enough to open his mouth when his playing time didn't 'really' justify it. I LIKE that, especially as he's been proven 100% correct. I bet LarDon do too. I'm keeping him as my backup pg unless somebody has to have him to complete a deal we want.
Move Jamaal, AJ and Jax to get a primo pg (HOPING), draft a 2. Keep Saras to be the backup pg.


I'm leaning this way as well. Saras is a natural leader, not one who was given the moniker when he got his #7 jersey. This team needs that more than anything right now. Let him stay as the backup. Get a good pg somehow.

I heard on ESPN this morning someone talking about the Pacers being the leaders in the Garnett sweepstakes this summer because of their trade bait. I was with a client so I could only half listen but I think it was Stephen A. Smith.

Kestas
04-12-2006, 05:00 PM
Certain superstars used to have a "veto" clause in their contracts.

I can't remember if the most recent CBA did away with those.

A player can always throw a tantrum (a la Artest) and scare off the other team's owners. That's a much more useful tool than the veto rights.

thank's. not much freedom then. no need to mention I like the liberal European model more, but this does make some sense as well.

what about the possibilites of leaving the NBA for a foreign club while you still have a contract?

Mourning
04-12-2006, 05:02 PM
what about the possibilites of leaving the NBA for a foreign club while you still have a contract?

How about "No ****ING WAY!!!" ?;)

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 05:02 PM
FIBA forbids that type of tampering.

SwissExpress
04-12-2006, 05:14 PM
Once a player officially retires from the NBA (while having several years on the contract left), can't he play anywhere he wants?
Another issue is how influential FIBA is today. I'm not sure if ULEB upholds FIBA rules/has its own similar rules. If not, the way to Euroleague would be open. Basically, to Maccabi or Barcelona (his most likely suitors) too.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 05:19 PM
NBA contracts are guaranteed.

If the player foregoes the remaining payments, I guess it could work.

And don't underestimate FIBA's influence on this. This is about the only issue that the FIBA has any influence with the NBA.

Jermaniac
04-12-2006, 05:27 PM
They will call but Bird will say we cant trade our star player, but you can have Jermaine O'Neal for Matt Bonner - We like dem jumpshooters.

SwissExpress
04-12-2006, 05:33 PM
I meant FIBA's influence on ULEB, Euroleague's organizer. The two organizations used to be rather unwilling to cooperate since the moment ULEB was established. ULEB basically lured away the best European clubs from FIBA's competitions and absorbed them into its own. FIBA took some countermeasures like banning all ULEB referees from working in international competitions.
Thus I guess it's possible that a player could enter Euroleague despite what FIBA says. Unless ULEB has its own arrangements with NBA.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 05:42 PM
There is no way the FIBA or the NBA are going to allow any team, from any leauge, to be at risk of having their players "raided" like that.

Maybe the Euroleague has a similar agreement, or maybe they're governed by FIBA.

Regardless, there will be no international raiding of players under contract either to or from the US.

There are also specific rules of how much a team may pay to buy a player out of his contract early - as compensation to the team losing its player.

Seed
04-12-2006, 06:27 PM
IMO if Rick does stay, then trading Sarunas seems like the reasonable step. These two are not a match. Rick believes in a 'tightened' game while Sarunas thrives in an open court. It is clear Sarunas has underperformed under Rick's system, and I don't see why Rick would prefer keeping him rather than AJ.
I agree Sarunas going to the Raps is highly unlikely. There will be other teems though. Cavs will probably still be interested, and we can get some value from there too.

bulletproof
04-12-2006, 06:42 PM
Oh how titillating. A trade rumor in April. Can't wait to see how this one plays out.

cariocapacer
04-12-2006, 07:19 PM
There's probably no way Toronto could get David Harrison, a pretty good, young big man, but depending on how desperate Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh get, you can be sure Colangelo will be making a call or two.


I hope Harrison is available for the right price. With the mess that is this team, no one should be off the table.

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 07:27 PM
I don't think Saras is going to thrive anywhere in the NBA. Let's get him to "competent" first.

Seed
04-12-2006, 07:40 PM
I don't think Saras is going to thrive anywhere in the NBA. Let's get him to "competent" first.
Mmm, a prophet and a doctor. How bout changing your username to 'Doctor Prophet'?

Rytas_Jega
04-12-2006, 07:46 PM
Jay@Section204, I just have to say you all elite European club business is at ULEB. They won a war against FIBA a few years ago, they swept away FIBA from club basketball sphere. ULEB owns the Euroleague and ULEB cup, two greatest European club basketball tournaments.

FIBA tried to forbid it's quality referees to work at ULEB and many other things. FIBA lost. ULEB didn't respect FIBA then, so, believe me, they don't respect the losers now.

Don't relate FIBA and elite European club basketball.

NBA - 30 World's richest basektball clubs from the United States and Canada.

ULEB - All worth attention European club basketball.

FIBA - Tournaments for the national teams.

SoupIsGood
04-12-2006, 11:16 PM
I hope Harrison is available for the right price. With the mess that is this team, no one should be off the table.

There is no right price. You can't trade the crazy fat man :)

Alpolloloco
04-12-2006, 11:20 PM
If Colangelo is looking for a PG who fits in Phoenix freeflowing system than why don't we trade our problemchild Tinsley to the Raptors?
They are willing to trade their lottery pick for a vet PG!

We could also do a trade of Tinsley/Jackson for Alvin Williams/Peterson.
Peterson is a upgrade to Jackson and Tinsley and Williams share the record for most games missed in the last two seasons!

Kestas
04-13-2006, 02:59 AM
FIBA forbids that type of tampering.

FIBA? who the hell cares about FIBA?

Kestas
04-13-2006, 03:09 AM
There are also specific rules of how much a team may pay to buy a player out of his contract early - as compensation to the team losing its player.

but that's what I was asking about. what are they buyouts, basically. I can tell you that you could get, say, Scola from Tau Ceramica, but the buyout is 10 mln Euros (if I was not mistaken by the press). quite a bargain, eh? ;)
how much a team would have to pay to buy out Saras' contract from an NBA club? say, he has 8 mln for two years left and team wants to trade him, his value is decreasing... I must say that a handfull of teams want Saras and are very wealthy (CSKA, anyone?). however, Saras would probably want to go to Barcelona or Maccabi the most. NBA screwed him badly and if the next season starts as the current one is ending, I don't understand why the heck he should wasting himself in there. unless, of course, he could get to a truly contending team and win the title. I can't see a coach like Rick winning anything, unfortunatelly. however, I am very subjective and may be totally wrong about what he should do or not ;)

k

Lithfan
04-13-2006, 06:42 AM
Two points:

1. Saras had decent rookie season in Indiana. As I said before, Petrovic and Ginobili Parker and others were not better in their rookie seasons. It will be terrible mistake to trade him.
2. If Pacers try to move him on some place like Craptors he would say no thanx and go to Cleveland or back to Europe. I dont believe team can force a player to play if he doesnt claims the money they should pay him. Every contract has a cancellation option.

Macijauskas and other unhappy players in NBA are staying with their teams because they want money.

owl
04-13-2006, 07:09 AM
The article said...."As our old friend Butch Carter used to say, you should always look for a dysfunctional team that underachieves and try to pick its carcass clean; the Pacers are just that team."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++


Yeah, the Raptors should have no problem picking any player off the Pacers
they need, like taking candy from a baby. Especially with that rube
Donnie Walsh around.










;-)

owl