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View Full Version : What do Non-Pacer fans on this board think of our Point guards?



brichard
04-06-2006, 11:32 AM
Just curious what an outside observer thinks of JT/AJ/Saras.

Ralph Snart
04-06-2006, 11:41 AM
I think if we could merge all three into one player, we would have one hell of a point guard. :D

Tinsley's dribbling/passing.
Saras' shooting.
AJ's...striking good looks. I guess that's the thing with AJ, he' s a journeyman, he does a lot of thing equally well, just not spectactularly or consistently.

I give you, Jamantsar Tinsonvicius.

Doug
04-06-2006, 12:04 PM
I give you, Jamantsar Tinsonvicius.

LOL! Although with a name like that, he should play for the Raptors...

317Kim
04-06-2006, 12:13 PM
That is a mouth full to say!

Jamantsar Tinsonvicius, that's wonderful.

bozzwell
04-06-2006, 12:34 PM
Kings fan here. Here's my $.02...

I would like any one of your 3 PG's (not counting Gill) coming off the bench for the Kings. If I had to rely on any one of them as a starter for a prolonged period of time, I would consider my team to be in "trouble".

1. Tinsley. I used to think that this guy will be a star. Injuries, mood swings and erratic performances have reduced him to back up at best (if he can accept the role). Maybe even a 6th man in Boby Jackson shape if he could ever develop 3pt shot. Reading your board, I have to question his attitude.

2. AJ. Career backup. 'Nuff said.

3. Sarunas. Maybe he will make adjustments necessary to be an effective player in NBA. Maybe. Until then, I would have him come off the bench. It's tough to put up with his poor defense unless his offense is steady and he makes plays for others on consistent basis. Mike Bibby doesn't play D either, but he never dissapoints on the other end and he is huge in the clutch. Sarunas has a way to go before he can be left on the court for 40 minutes like Bibby. The worst part is, you may never find out if he has it in him while he is with Pacers (or in the EC in general). Even in Europe, he would struggle in this type of offense.

DisplacedKnick
04-06-2006, 01:25 PM
Tinsley - too erratic and too injury-prone. Definitely the most gifted, best passer, best court vision but I don't know where his head is at. He may be a second-tier PG forever or a late bloomer like Billups or Bobby Jackson. Hard to say but he's been making goofy plays lately.

AJ - Very good backup. If he's your starter you have a weakness to be addressed. Right now he's probably your best option though.

Sarunas - Good passer & shooter & seems to understand the game but weak ballhandler and his defense needs a lot of help.

McClintic Sphere
04-06-2006, 01:26 PM
Even in Europe, he would struggle in this type of offense.

Yep. I wonder what it was that sold Sarunas on coming here, because our half court slog ball is exactly the wrong kind of offense for him. He needs to be in an offense that at least has the threat of pushing the ball consistently, so not only would he be able to maximize his passing skills, but people would be less inclined to take him to the hole if he was a threat on the break every possession.

piksi
04-06-2006, 01:36 PM
Tinsley - not smart enough to play a PG on a great team. Lot's of talent but probably very poor work etics. Not reliable. Can't shoot but hasn't met a shot - he didn't like. Bad decision making

AJ - solid on both ends. Likes to call his own number too much. Not a PG on a great team.

Sarunas - couldn't defend my computer chair. Not strong enough. Great shooter, solid decision making, mentaly stable. Sarunas is a winner. Has won everywhere ha has played and there is a reason for. If he can improve his defense a bit - he could be great for a free flow offense system. Needs to adjust to NBA - schedule.

Kstat
04-06-2006, 01:48 PM
Tinsley-fantastic ballhandler, most injury-prone PG I've ever seen. Weakness is durability.

Saras- opposite of tinsley. Reliable, good shooter, more calm. On the same token, his ballhandling is below average, he's half as fast, and defensively he has a lot of trouble against PGs.

AJ- best scoring PG on the team, best defender, lacks in most important PG qualities, like floor leadership, creating for others, ballhanding.

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 02:20 PM
I for one agree with everything that these "non-Pacers" fans have posted.

This summer I expect the Pacers to finally get a starting point guard that we've lacked for several years.

Chauncey
04-06-2006, 02:25 PM
AJ and Sarunas are good backups.

At this point I wouldn't trust Tinsley with the responsibility of playing 10 minutes a game.

Shade
04-06-2006, 02:43 PM
Just curious what an outside observer thinks of JT/AJ/Saras.

Where's Eddie? :furious:

Kstat
04-06-2006, 02:46 PM
Eddie looks like he has the potential to serve a mean cup of gatorade. Good grasp of the cup, good pour, good follow-through.

Shade
04-06-2006, 02:46 PM
I for one agree with everything that these "non-Pacers" fans have posted.

This summer I expect the Pacers to finally get a starting point guard that we've lacked for several years.

Dre Miller! :pray:

So far on the RealGM boards, a couple of Nugz fans said it would take Tins and Jack for Miller and fillers. Where the !@#$ do I sign up? :signit:

btowncolt
04-06-2006, 02:46 PM
Where's Eddie? :furious:

http://www.advantageremodelinginc.com/compressed/Basements/Lavoi%20basement%20before%203.jpg

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 02:51 PM
Dre Miller! :pray:

So far on the RealGM boards, a couple of Nugz fans said it would take Tins and Jack for Miller and fillers. Where the !@#$ do I sign up? :signit:



Those fans are crazy, but when can the deal get done

Shade
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
Those fans are crazy, but when can the deal get done

Apparently, they need a shooter and replacement starting PG.

Hell, I'd even consider a re-signed Peja and Tins.

Ara
04-06-2006, 04:11 PM
Eddie looks like he has the potential to serve a mean cup of gatorade. Good grasp of the cup, good pour, good follow-through.

lol :P

heywoode
04-06-2006, 04:14 PM
http://www.advantageremodelinginc.com/compressed/Basements/Lavoi%20basement%20before%203.jpg


Do the gigglers EVER STOP??!!

Although for Eddie, you really need the basement from Silence of the Lambs.

Brian
04-06-2006, 04:36 PM
Tinsley-fantastic ballhandler, most injury-prone PG I've ever seen. Weakness is durability.

Saras- opposite of tinsley. Reliable, good shooter, more calm. On the same token, his ballhandling is below average, he's half as fast, and defensively he has a lot of trouble against PGs.

AJ- best scoring PG on the team, best defender, lacks in most important PG qualities, like floor leadership, creating for others, ballhanding.



Sounds like if we added all of those good things together we could have a darn good PG.But of course untill we can morph people together,we just have to deal with it.

Will Galen
04-06-2006, 04:45 PM
Dre Miller! :pray:

So far on the RealGM boards, a couple of Nugz fans said it would take Tins and Jack for Miller and fillers. Where the !@#$ do I sign up? :signit:

I advocated that trade before the deadline.

D-BONE
04-06-2006, 04:47 PM
Dre Miller! :pray:

So far on the RealGM boards, a couple of Nugz fans said it would take Tins and Jack for Miller and fillers. Where the !@#$ do I sign up? :signit:

This would be out of sight! And a minor miracle but I'll hold out hope.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2006, 07:16 PM
I for one agree with everything that these "non-Pacers" fans have posted.

This summer I expect the Pacers to finally get a starting point guard that we've lacked for several years.

From where?

Who's available?

Suaveness
04-06-2006, 07:43 PM
Andre Miller?

I don't know if he'd help. But I think that he could?

ChicagoJ
04-06-2006, 09:46 PM
I doubt he's available. Certainly not straight-up for Tinsley, his contract is too big.

He's comparable to Tinsley in abilities; we've never really seen him do anything in the playoffs, however.

Shade
04-06-2006, 09:53 PM
I doubt he's available. Certainly not straight-up for Tinsley, his contract is too big.

He's comparable to Tinsley in abilities; we've never really seen him do anything in the playoffs, however.

Yup...Dre has nothing on Tins when it comes to getting injured in the playoffs. :rimshot:

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 09:56 PM
From where?

Who's available?



I can think of two free agent point guard.

Brevin Knight - not sure he's good enough
Mike James - I'd take him right now

The Pacers point guard situation really can't get any worse

SoupIsGood
04-06-2006, 10:15 PM
I doubt he's available. Certainly not straight-up for Tinsley, his contract is too big.

He's comparable to Tinsley in abilities; we've never really seen him do anything in the playoffs, however.

He had a pretty nice game against the Spurs last year

brichard
04-06-2006, 10:26 PM
The Pacers point guard situation really can't get any worse

Famous last words...

This sounds too eerily familiar to how I felt about dealing Al for Jack. I'm still not upset for trading Al b/c we had a logjam at the position at the time. Al also had a questionable wheel (long term,) had expressed desire to leave, and he had never performed well in the playoffs.

I was excited about getting Jack even though I knew very little about him. He was a guard, which we needed desperately at the time. He also had played on a championship team. I was so hopeful that he would come in and not only contribute, but provide a little bit of veteran leadership to our team and show them some of those championship ways.

Wow... did I foresee that wrong. Not only did he not provide the leadership I was looking for, he actually became a big minus sign on that side of the equation. So, I would hesitate to ever say something so carte blanche again like "anybody will do" no matter how frustrated I am with the play at the position.

But I also think saying "this is the best we can do" is a little bit of a copout as well. I mean, isn't that the problem with Donnie "Do nothing?" He just stays the course? How is it that Joe Dumars can get a top flight point guard in the non-sunny weather that is Detroit? I find it intriguing that those who oft criticize Walsh for his hesitancy to make moves are those who are wanting him to stand pat right now.

We have to get better at this position some how some way. Even Tinsley's biggest fans have to worry about his durability. If there is nobody to trade for, than we need to draft for it. I refuse to believe that their isn't another player in the league available or we can get via the draft that can't at least be as good as Tinsley. With all the people playing across the world there has to be somebody and it is on the shoulders of Donnie and Larry to find him.

The other possibility is that the guy might be on our team right now. Saras is still a big question mark to me. If he is surrounded by the right players and continues to develop his skills, perhaps he can become that guy. There are lots of similarities between him and Mark Jackson in regards to being good on the offensive side and limited on the defensive side. I know Saras isn't in Mark's league, but could he be? Only time will tell.

Unfortunately I have more questions that answers, but history has a tendency of repeating itself. Jamaal Tinsley has a history of taking your breath away with his playmaking abilities. I can think of three times where I've found myself believing in him.

The first time I believed was in the beginning. I complained that Travis Best just couldn't pass to anybody b/c nobody was moving. But then JT comes in as a rookie and makes passes that don't appear to be there until he makes them. Then comes JT charging in after being benched for Kenny Anderson. And finally, he rides the white horse to save us from a defeat against Boston.

But alas, with each charge he has had there has always been a vanishing act. Some of it is because of injuries. Some of it is because of attitude. And some of it has been based on an overall slippage of his game. I see what all Tinsleys fans see. This is a guy who is one of the best PG in the game and they hold on to the belief that this time he will stay on top. I am not as optimistic based on his past performance.

I'm beginning to think that JT needs a little adversity in order to "prove" himself and then he regresses back to his street ball tendancies. Although it is fun to watch on the upswing, I've grown a bit weary of the downswings.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2006, 10:52 PM
I can think of two free agent point guard.

Brevin Knight - not sure he's good enough
Mike James - I'd take him right now

Brevin Knight?? :puke:

Mike James? He's not my style of PG. He's a ballhog. We'd have to overhaul the entire team around a second-tier PG. If we're going to overhaul anyway, we might as well build around a better team player than James. Or a better-caliber ballhog.


The Pacers point guard situation really can't get any worse

Hasn't been this bad since the start of The Season We Do Not Discuss.

Travis Bust
Workman
Jerome Allen :hmm:

abington
04-06-2006, 11:11 PM
Hasn't been this bad since the start of The Season We Do Not Discuss.

Travis Bust
Workman
Jerome Allen :hmm:

maybe donnie can re-reaquire Mark Jackson.

DeS
04-07-2006, 06:29 AM
Mike James? He's not my style of PG. He's a ballhog. We'd have to overhaul the entire team around a second-tier PG. If we're going to overhaul anyway, we might as well build around a better team player than James. Or a better-caliber ballhog.
I agree with You 100% on this one. While he may be ok for raptors, imo he would be a problem on a more quality team (who knows). Besides imho he is not a team player and not a good teammate. It's obvious from his interview (the link is published in some post).

D-BONE
04-07-2006, 06:51 AM
I agree with You 100% on this one. While he may be ok for raptors, imo he would be a problem on a more quality team (who knows).

Well, since the Raps basically kicked our arse all year long except the one game minus Bosh (which they nearly won), maybe we aren't the quality team you speak of.

As far as possible new PGs mentioned, c'mon, people. Miller, James, and even Knight would be an upgrade over Tins at this point. If you base this on on-court performance of RECENT memory there's no way to suggest JT is better than these guys. JT doesn't play and when he does it's usually not well, at least not anything near consistency.

I bought into the JT "potential talent" illusion for the longest time. I defended him against naysayers. The final time I was brought over to the dark side was during his outstanding stint last season just after the suspensions.

I recall having a conversation during that time where someone mentioned Tinsley is going to be an All-Star and how set we'd be once the suspensions were over. Since then it's been nothing but injuries-some spurious, lack of intensity and leadership, and regression in play.

Don't believe the hype! The JT of great potential and talent is not the JT that shows up on a nightly basis, which isn't very often anyway. He's had his chance to develop and establish himself. He just hasn't taken advantage. If it happens elsewhere, well, so be it. His schtick has worn out here IMO. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be and you must move on.

DeS
04-07-2006, 08:43 AM
Well, since the Raps basically kicked our arse all year long except the one game minus Bosh (which they nearly won), maybe we aren't the quality team you speak of.

As far as possible new PGs mentioned, c'mon, people. Miller, James, and even Knight would be an upgrade over Tins at this point. If you base this on on-court performance of RECENT memory there's no way to suggest JT is better than these guys. JT doesn't play and when he does it's usually not well, at least not anything near consistency.

I bought into the JT "potential talent" illusion for the longest time. I defended him against naysayers. The final time I was brought over to the dark side was during his outstanding stint last season just after the suspensions.
Yes, we aren't the quality team, but I don't want us to become raptors either. While Mike James is a quick, good shooter and a good athlete (which we need), his judgement (even Tinsley on his worst day didn't achieved his bricking record) and attitude ("I'm better than team") sucks. I don't want a player over a team.

Frank Slade
04-07-2006, 08:55 AM
Where's Tyus Edney when you need him :(

DeS
04-07-2006, 09:13 AM
Where's Tyus Edney when you need him :(
He's with Pireo Olympiacos, I think. But he's certainly very busy at the moment ;)

Unclebuck
04-07-2006, 09:37 AM
Mike James does have a chmpionship ring

Rytas_Jega
04-07-2006, 10:04 AM
Where's Tyus Edney when you need him :(

He's now at Euroleague quaterfinals against defending champions Maccabi, best of 3 series is tied at the moment. He made 10 points, 3 assists, 5 turnovers yesterday, Olympiacos won.

Hicks
04-07-2006, 10:21 AM
Mike James does have a chmpionship ring

So does the first guy in my sig.

Kestas
04-07-2006, 11:17 AM
Eddie looks like he has the potential to serve a mean cup of gatorade. Good grasp of the cup, good pour, good follow-through.

this one here is my favourite post, I must admit.

Shade
04-07-2006, 11:37 AM
So does the first guy in my sig.

Ahh...beat me to it.

I wonder if Mitch Richmond is still available. :innocent:

themind
04-07-2006, 12:17 PM
Where's Tyus Edney when you need him :(

Could you tell more about him playing as a Pacer? In Europe he's playing really well...

ChicagoJ
04-07-2006, 02:04 PM
Mike James does have a chmpionship ring

Oh great, a Mike James/ Stephen Jackson backcourt.

Pardon me, I need to put these six things into their chambers...

.

.

.

.

.

.

:suicide:


Once more, just to be sure...

:suicide:

Mourning
04-07-2006, 02:53 PM
Oh great, a Mike James/ Stephen Jackson backcourt.

Pardon me, I need to put these six things into their chambers...

.

.

.

.

.

.

:suicide:


Once more, just to be sure...

:suicide:

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


I think we could atleast try to get Antonio Daniels from Washington. He hasn't been a succes there, but I remember him playing in Seattle and I liked him over there. He is a good defensive PG, a decent shooter (not great by all means, but far from a liability) and he can distribute the ball decently and bring the ball up court ok.

What do the Wizards need to make it interesting for them? Probably frontcourt help. Or maybe sign & trade Peja and another player for a good PG. I dunno.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Hicks
04-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Could you tell more about him playing as a Pacer? In Europe he's playing really well...

From what little I have to go on, I remember him as Eddie Gill minues the shooting range.

ChicagoJ
04-07-2006, 03:02 PM
Random:

a) Tyus barely played for the Pacers.

b) I would take Antonio Daniels for Tinsley. I think he's very underrated/ underappreciated since it took his a while to figure out how to be an NBA player after absurdly high expectations.

Mourning
04-07-2006, 03:23 PM
Another guy I would like to have is Kirk Hinrich. Not the best PG in the league, but above average or better in almost everything a PG needs to be able to do and I think he will continue to improve.

And well he's been mentioned before, Andre Miller would be good too, but I really doubt we have any of the means that could get him, without offering up Danny or Jermaine.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
04-07-2006, 04:24 PM
The enthusiasm for Hinrich is Chicago seems to be dropping, so he might be attainable cheaply. He doesn't play much PG anymore. He's more of a 'tweener.

If we get him cheaply, then we can also discover that he's also probably not athletic enough.

Unclebuck
04-07-2006, 04:39 PM
Jax is gone too.


The fans might not like Hinrich in Chicago, but the coaching staff loves him. He's not going anywhere

Kegboy
04-07-2006, 08:06 PM
My sister the Bulls fan would be happy to trade Hinrich to us. She's very down on his play this year.

grace
04-08-2006, 10:23 AM
My sister the Bulls fan would be happy to trade Hinrich to us. She's very down on his play this year.

I wouldn't say I'm very down on him. He's just not playing all that well. Translation: I wouldn't cry if he got traded, although I'd :suicide: if he was traded for Stephen Jackson.

Shade
04-08-2006, 10:36 AM
Tyus Edney was my personal favorite "bench player we like to overrate."

Ever notice how many of those players are PGs?

Shade
04-08-2006, 10:37 AM
I wouldn't say I'm very down on him. He's just not playing all that well. Translation: I wouldn't cry if he got traded, although I'd :suicide: if he was traded for Stephen Jackson.

Is there any logical reason Hinrich is starting instead of Gordon?

Tell 'ya what...we'll trade you our starting SG for your back-up SG. ;) :devil:

grace
04-08-2006, 11:06 AM
Is there any logical reason Hinrich is starting instead of Gordon?

Tell 'ya what...we'll trade you our starting SG for your back-up SG. ;) :devil:

Well, when Ben was starting he started with Kirk and Duhon came off the bench. Then when they were losing Skiles decided he needed to change something so now he's bringing Tyson and Ben off the bench. I would say it's been working, but since they play tonight him not saying anything.