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SoupIsGood
04-05-2006, 11:57 PM
So what's up with this guy?

Will he be leaving the Kings? (Can the Peja fans help here? :) )

Would he be a good fit for the Pacers?

Jermaniac
04-05-2006, 11:58 PM
EHhhhh I just threw up in my mouth a little bit

I rather keep Ricky #1

Lord Helmet
04-06-2006, 12:10 AM
EHhhhh I just threw up in my mouth a little bit

I rather keep Ricky #1
Yep.

SoupIsGood
04-06-2006, 12:12 AM
I rather keep Ricky #1
Yeah me too.

I'm just asking a question or two.

Ralph Snart
04-06-2006, 09:10 AM
He's actually a decent coach, just one that seems to outlast his welcome. I lived in Portland and went to highschool with his daughter when he coached the Blazer (we had the same bus stop). I met him a couple of times, and he was a really cool guy.

He's very prepared, I don't know about the Kings, but with Blazers he was always on top of things. If we hired him, he would be good for about three years, then we'd have to get rid of him. And if we keep Peja, I'd rather not have him. With Adelman everything needs to start with a fresh relationship.

Fool
04-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Why is there such unanomous distaste (Snart's is the first positive post about Adleman I've seen on this site) for a coach who's taken multiple teams deep into the playoffs? Including the Finals twice with Portland and what amounted to the Finals in 2002 taking Sac to the WCF (since the Nets had no chance that year, regardless).

I'm ignoring Golden State because, well, they are Golden State.

I know UB has said that he believes Aldelman doesn't coach defense (or something similar) but I assume there is something else there because if he looked at the records he'd see that both Portland and Sacramento were consistently in the top 10 in terms of defensive teams under his tenure. Portland was top 5 in defense (often #2) pretty much every year Adleman was there and Sacramento (while being sives in 04 and 05, both years dogged by the Webber exit saga) were 19th in defense the year before Adleman arrived (98) and steadily improved till they reached #2 in the league in 03.

Lets see. The guys' teams win in the regular season, they win in the playoffs, they play defense, they certainly play offense, and they are damn fun to watch. Why would I want him when I can have Rick Carlisle's brand of basketball?

piksi
04-06-2006, 09:39 AM
We still hope that he might stay.

As an outsider - You might think what You want about him but he is one of the best coaches out there. We made POs 8 straight years. We played good BB regardless of injuries that we had and we had many. He has always found the way to win. Way, his teams play BB - is fun to watch. If You think that he can't coach defense - look at Kings defensive stats in 2002/2003. He is able to handle "rejects" and he is capable of developing young players. He does prefer veterans. He is as classy coach as You could find.

We would love to keep him but after what maloofs did to him last summer - I don't see him staying. If You want cionsistancy, 50+ wins and good runs in the PO - he is the man. Neve rcould get over the hump though for some reason (Jordan,Shaq,Kobe, Bavetta,injuries)

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 10:11 AM
Adelman is what I call a very professional coach. What I mean by that is he does a good job. He isn't anything special, but he does a good job. I don't like the approach he takes to defense, and I personally don't want him coaching the Pacers, but we could do worse.

Ralph Snart
04-06-2006, 10:22 AM
Adelman is what I call a very professional coach. What I mean by that is he does a good job. He isn't anything special, but he does a good job. I don't like the approach he takes to defense, and I personally don't want him coaching the Pacers, but we could do worse.

We need to look at it from the standpoint of who is available. The way things look right now, I'd say Adelman's going to be the best available coach this summer, unless we hire an assistant or college coach, we I think would be a recipe for disaster.

Major Cold
04-06-2006, 10:45 AM
Who is the coach for Florida? I'll admit I do not know a lot about him, but he seems interesting to a least look at. Who knows

themind
04-06-2006, 11:52 AM
I'm all for Pacers to try something different. This season is disastrous and I personally would like to see them run & gun. They have the right players for it. Having a offensive minded coach would hurt less than to trade half of the team...

Shade
04-06-2006, 11:56 AM
Why is there such unanomous distaste (Snart's is the first positive post about Adleman I've seen on this site) for a coach who's taken multiple teams deep into the playoffs? Including the Finals twice with Portland and what amounted to the Finals in 2002 taking Sac to the WCF (since the Nets had no chance that year, regardless).

I'm ignoring Golden State because, well, they are Golden State.

I know UB has said that he believes Aldelman doesn't coach defense (or something similar) but I assume there is something else there because if he looked at the records he'd see that both Portland and Sacramento were consistently in the top 10 in terms of defensive teams under his tenure. Portland was top 5 in defense (often #2) pretty much every year Adleman was there and Sacramento (while being sives in 04 and 05, both years dogged by the Webber exit saga) were 19th in defense the year before Adleman arrived (98) and steadily improved till they reached #2 in the league in 03.

Lets see. The guys' teams win in the regular season, they win in the playoffs, they play defense, they certainly play offense, and they are damn fun to watch. Why would I want him when I can have Rick Carlisle's brand of basketball?

It's the "three-year rule," I think. This team has blocked him out. We either need a new coach or new players...or possibly even both.

I think some of us are scared that this roster could still do some serious damage with a new coach at the helm, and are reluctant to give up on some of those players because of it (Ragnar made a good point that Tins and JO were almost never "injured" before Rick came on board...just sayin').

Major Cold
04-06-2006, 12:21 PM
It's the "three-year rule," I think. This team has blocked him out. We either need a new coach or new players...or possibly even both.

I think some of us are scared that this roster could still do some serious damage with a new coach at the helm, and are reluctant to give up on some of those players because of it (Ragnar made a good point that Tins and JO were almost never "injured" before Rick came on board...just sayin').


Yeah but they also recieved contracts while Rick was here. They are getting paid to wear Armani suits. best fashion models in the NBA

Frank Slade
04-06-2006, 12:23 PM
Who is the coach for Florida? I'll admit I do not know a lot about him, but he seems interesting to a least look at. Who knows

Billy Donovan ? I am sure FL will be shelling out some big $$ to keep him, even if it is a Football School, but he has made it known, he would eventually like to test the NBA waters.... so you never know.

bozzwell
04-06-2006, 12:42 PM
RA with Pacers next year? With JO, Pedja and PG to be named later? Here's what would happen:

Pacers would witn 50+ games every year.
JO would average double-double, but with significant uptick on assists per game.
Pedja would go back to 20+ PPG with 100+ long streaks of games with double figure scoring (i.e. incredibly consistent) and measly 4.5 rpg's. ;)
Your rotation would be 7, 8 players deep at the most.
Pacers would be great to watch.
Pacers would sweep Atlanta.
I'd be pissed that RA is not on the Kings anymore.

piksi
04-06-2006, 01:30 PM
RA with Pacers next year? With JO, Pedja and PG to be named later? Here's what would happen:

Pacers would witn 50+ games every year.
JO would average double-double, but with significant uptick on assists per game.
Pedja would go back to 20+ PPG with 100+ long streaks of games with double figure scoring (i.e. incredibly consistent) and measly 4.5 rpg's. ;)
Your rotation would be 7, 8 players deep at the most.
Pacers would be great to watch.
Pacers would sweep Atlanta.
I'd be pissed that RA is not on the Kings anymore.

Pacers would be top 3 in scoring, assists, FG%.

I hope he stays with Kngs

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 02:26 PM
This is who I want. In fact if a change has to be made and if I were in charge I wouldn't bother interviewing anyone else. I love his CBA and minor league background. That IMo is an excellent proving ground for NBA coaches. Phil Jackson, Flip Saunders, George Karl.

I didn't even realize Mus was runner-up to Popovich for coach of the year in 2003


http://www.nba.com/coachfile/eric_musselman/index.html?nav=page

Eric Musselman
College - San Diego

A young, energetic coach with an extremely successful record in basketball’s “minor leagues”, Eric Musselman was named head coach of the Golden State Warriors on July 26, 2002. Just 37-years-old at the time of his hiring, Musselman becomes the youngest current head coach in the NBA. Prior to joining the Warriors, Musselman worked two seasons as an assistant for the Atlanta Hawks after spending the prior two seasons with the Orlando Magic.


In 1998-99, Musselman was named an assistant coach for the Orlando Magic by then-head coach Chuck Daly after spending the previous campaign as a scout for the Magic. When Daly retired following the 1998-99 campaign, Musselman was retained on the staff of new head coach Doc Rivers for the 1999-2000 season.

Musselman joined the Magic after spending the previous seven years as the head coach and the previous eight years as the general manager of the Florida Beach Dogs (formerly the Rapid City Thrillers) of the Continental Basketball Association. In 1996-97, Musselman led the Beach Dogs to a 38-18 record and a trip to the CBA Finals as his squad held CBA opponents to a league-low 90.8 points per game. As the club’s general manager in 1988-89, he hired current Timberwolves head coach Flip Saunders - then a college assistant - to coach the Thrillers.

As a CBA coach, Musselman posted a 270-122 record (.688), marking the second highest winning percentage in league history behind Milwaukee Bucks head coach George Karl, who coached for five seasons in the CBA.

From 1990 thru 1997, Musselman had 24 players called-up to the NBA, the highest number in the league during that span. He holds the distinction of being the only person in CBA history to coach in five league All-Star Games (1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1997) and was the first coach in professional basketball history to win 100 games by the age of 28. When he was 23, Musselman became the youngest coach in CBA history.

Musselman also served as head coach of the Florida Sharks of the United States Basketball League. In the summers of 1995 and 1996, he coached the Sharks to a combined 53-3 record (.946, including playoffs) and back-to-back USBL Championships. He holds the highest winning percentage in league history.

His received his first NBA coaching experience in 1990-91 as an assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves on the staff of his late father, Bill Musselman. The Musselmans are now the first father/son head-coaching duo in NBA history.

After graduating from the University of San Diego with a bachelor’s degree in political science in 1987, Musselman took a front office job with the Los Angeles Clippers before taking on the role of assistant director of scouting.

A three-time member West Coast Athletic Conference All-Academic squad, he played in two NCAA tournaments. Following his college career, Musselman was selected by the CBA’s Albany Patroons in the fifth round (58th overall) of the 1987 Draft.

A graduate of Brecksville (Ohio) High School, Musselman has two sons, Michael and Matthew. He was born November 19, 1964 in Ashland, OH.





CAREER COACHING
REGULAR SEASON POST SEASON
YEAR TEAM WINS LOSSES PCT WINS LOSSES PCT
2002 Golden State 38 44 .463 0 0 .000
TOTALS 75 89 .457 0 0 .000

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 02:28 PM
He reminds me of Scott Skiles


http://www.hoopshype.com/interviews/musselman_gozalbo.htm

Eric Musselman: "I have no other hobbies aside from basketball"
by Alex Gozalbo / August 11, 2003


SOUND BITES

Coaching an NBA team is not easy. "Most players do things their way and there is a psychological job work to do," Warriors head coach Eric Musselman said during the International Clinic of Badalona. "The president of my club always tells me that I have to talk with them off the court so that they feel comfortable."

That is a difficult task sometimes. According to Musselman, most European players speak better English than many American players. "And that is not a joke," he added.

What kind of player you were?

Eric Musselman: I wasn't very good. I was just smart and I enjoyed working hard.

Your coaching career started very early. At the age of 27, you were already an assistant coach in Minnesota. To what extent did your father Bill Musselman influence your decision of becoming a coach?

EM: When kids my age were having fun watching cartoons, I was watching basketball games. Basketball is the only thing I know and I don't think I would be able to do any other thing. I have no other hobbies aside from basketball. The most important thing for me is basketball and that's what I do all day.

Is it harder to be listened when you are younger that some of the players?

EM: Not at all. It's all about earning respect. When I began my journey in the CBA, most of the players where older than me.

What are the main differences between the CBA and the NBA?

EM: Well, the superstars, the best players, are in the NBA. Besides, now defenses are tougher. In the CBA, meanwhile, you just run up and down the court all the time.

The Warriors' offense was good last year. You were the second-highest scoring team in the league. But your defense was not something about which you can take pride of...

EM: Our defense is the worst in the NBA. We have a lot of players with good offensive talent, but they don't like running downcourt. Besides, we are one of the youngest teams in the league and we lack experience.

Do you think you can win anything without a good defense?

EM: No. And playing good defense is our main goal for this season. We'll spend a lot of hours working on our defense this summer.

Which NBA teams do you like the most?

EM: Dallas and Sacramento. They have a beautiful playing style and it's a pleasure to watch one of their games.

But they don't win titles. Who do you think will be the main favorite this season?

EM: San Antonio. They have the best player in the NBA -- Tim Duncan. And they are the current champions. In my opinion, they are the team to beat. I also like the point guard Tony Parker. He is fabulous. He moves real quick and has really improved his outside shot. He looked comfortable in the championship series.

Golden State selected another French player -- Mickael Pietrus -- in the draft. What will be his role in the team?

EM: I've seen some tapes and it appears to be a very athletic player -- just like Derrick Zimmerman, our second-round pick. But Pietrus does need to improve his jump shot. That's why I don't expect him to contribute this season. Maybe he can be useful in the future. Meanwhile, he is not going to play much.

This year's draft was LeBron's draft. What's your opinion about Lebron skipping college for the NBA?

EM: (Laughs) LeBron doesn't need to go to college because he can buy one. His contract is spectacular. I think it's a problem because there are players that are not ready for the NBA. They need at least two years to make the adjustment.




Here is a thread about EM.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=494371


I won't post anymore, but I googled Eric Musselman and found a number of interesting articles. The word I keep coming back to is Innovative


here is one worth reading. Seriously if you are interested in why I think he's going to be one of the great NBA coaches, in fact the next great coach, it is based upon some of what I read in an article like this

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/rosen/030226.html


Here's a Thread from realGM.com

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=496859


Here is a little about why he was fired

http://www.beyondchron.org/news/index.php?itemid=1508

Evan_The_Dude
04-06-2006, 03:45 PM
I think UB and I have agreed 110% with eachother on Musselman. The one thing I have to point out is that he took virtually the same Warriors team that got nowhere with Adelman, and nearly got them into the playoffs. Now, I think I'm going to read that last part about why he was fired, because I think that was the dumbest thing the Warriors could have done. Montgomery can't hold Musselmans jock.

EDIT: I have to add, I had never ever been to a game in person and taken my attention off the actual game in order to watch the coach direct the team. Until I saw Eric Musselman that is. I actually enjoyed his coaching style so much that I would be more entertained watching him than actually watching the team play. I swear to you the guy never sat down, and you could hear him yelling even from the nose bleed seats I was sitting in.

Since86
04-06-2006, 04:01 PM
It's the "three-year rule," I think. This team has blocked him out. We either need a new coach or new players...or possibly even both.

I think some of us are scared that this roster could still do some serious damage with a new coach at the helm, and are reluctant to give up on some of those players because of it (Ragnar made a good point that Tins and JO were almost never "injured" before Rick came on board...just sayin').


There is no three year rule, and even if there was, this current team hasn't been coached by Rick three total years.

Half the roster has either missed enough time during that tenure to compel it as year number two, rookies, or sophomores.

They've tuned Rick out for reasons other than he's been here too long.

Larry's three year rule, IMHO, was a cop out he could use to only be a coach for three years. He really had no desire to be a coach.

There has been/there is plently of teams that have had the same coach for 3+ years that keep ticking along quite nicely. I mean, Popovich has been in SA for how long?

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 04:38 PM
Wow, I never knew there was actually a quote like this, but I agree 100000000%

"The most important part of any season in any sport is the first five minutes of the first practice session."
--Paul Brown, coach of the Cleveland Browns

ChicagoJ
04-06-2006, 10:00 PM
There is no three year rule, and even if there was, this current team hasn't been coached by Rick three total years.

Half the roster has either missed enough time during that tenure to compel it as year number two, rookies, or sophomores.

Tinsley - three years
AJ - three years
Fred - three years
Croshere - three years
Foster - three years
JO - three years
Pollard - three years

1/2 the roster, including six of the nine guys in the regular rotation.


They've tuned Rick out for reasons other than he's been here too long.

Yeah, because he's an overbearing control freak with no patience for developing young players.


Larry's three year rule, IMHO, was a cop out he could use to only be a coach for three years.

Maybe true. But since he's said it, I expect him to stick with it as GM. He's made his bed, now he's got to sleep in it.


He really had no desire to be a coach. He's also a f'ing Celtic, and he's only here because Bob what's-his-face got the Charlotte franchise. Don't get me started...


There has been/there is plently of teams that have had the same coach for 3+ years that keep ticking along quite nicely. I mean, Popovich has been in SA for how long?

But with the exception of Duncan, and perhaps Parker and Manu, Pop turns over the roster much quicker than DW/ the Pacers do.

I think that's also going to be true for any other example you cite.

Jermaniac
04-06-2006, 10:18 PM
http://www1.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=496859&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=48

For you guys that want him as a coach here is some stuff on him from the Warrior fans, Hopper15 is a mod over there and a very good poster the stuff he said about him made it sound just like Musselman was Rick Carlisle Jr. If he is anything like that then we should look elsewhere.

Unclebuck
04-06-2006, 10:25 PM
http://www1.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=496859&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=48

For you guys that want him as a coach here is some stuff on him from the Warrior fans, Hopper15 is a mod over there and a very good poster the stuff he said about him made it sound just like Musselman was Rick Carlisle Jr. If he is anything like that then we should look elsewhere.



I hope our next coach is as good as Rick. EM is different from Rick though

Hicks
04-06-2006, 10:30 PM
Some of the comments in here have me warming up to the idea of trying to get Adelman. Obviously the offense would look twice as good or better, but the defense is a concern.

However, looking at the Kings' 01-02 and 02-03 stats:

In 2001-2002, they scored 104.6ppg while allowing 97.0 and a defensive FG% of 44%. Nothing to write home about, but not abyssmal, and certainly not bad when you're winning every game by an average of 7.6 points.

In 2002-2003, they scored 101.7ppg while allowing 95.2 and a defensive FG% of 42%. That's getting into "decent" territory, while still scoring plenty and looking good while doing it. Average winning margin of 6.5 points.

ChicagoJ
04-06-2006, 11:14 PM
Point differential is much more important than just looking at defense in isolation.

Hicks
04-06-2006, 11:26 PM
Point differential is much more important than just looking at defense in isolation.

Agreed. I'd much rather win by an average of 120 to 110 than 95 to 90.

Fool
04-07-2006, 12:18 AM
I think UB and I have agreed 110% with eachother on Musselman. The one thing I have to point out is that he took virtually the same Warriors team that got nowhere with Adelman, and nearly got them into the playoffs. Now, I think I'm going to read that last part about why he was fired, because I think that was the dumbest thing the Warriors could have done. Montgomery can't hold Musselmans jock.

Mussleman's first year was 03, this was his roster:

Antawn Jamison
Gilbert Arenas
Jason Richardson
Troy Murphy
Erick Dampier
Earl Boykins
Mike Dunleavy
Adonal Foyle
Bob Sura
Chris Mills
Jiri Welsch
Danny Fortson
Oscar Torres
Dean Oliver
A.J. Guyton
Guy Rucker

Adelman's last year with the Warriors was 97, this was his roster:

Latrell Sprewell
Joe Smith
Chris Mullin
Mark Price
Donyell Marshall
B.J. Armstrong
Andrew DeClercq
Felton Spencer
Bimbo Coles
Todd Fuller
Ray Owes
Scott Burrell
Donald Royal
Melvin Booker
Lou Roe
Clifford Rozier

There is no one on Adleman's roster that is also on Mussleman's roster (after all, they are seperated by 6 years and 3 other head coaches).

The one thing I have to point out, is Montgomery lost 3 more games in 05 than Mussleman did in 04 and that with a team who traded for Baron Davis then watched him sit out 54 games that season. The Warriors are currently 30-44.

I don't get this Mussleman love. Is he from Indiana or something? And I really don't get how Mussleman is comparable to Phil Jackson and Scott Skiles but Adleman (a guy who's actually gotten places with his teams) is just "a professional coach" who does "a good job but is nothing special".

SoupIsGood
04-07-2006, 12:35 AM
I don't get this Mussleman love. Is he from Indiana or something? And I really don't get how Mussleman is comparable to Phil Jackson and Scott Skiles but Adleman (a guy who's actually gotten places with his teams) is just "a professional coach" who does "a good job but is nothing special".

This is how I was thinking.


Muss doesn't excite me. If we really do have to can Rick, which I don't really want to, I want someone who will bring something new to this team. Also, I'm tired of looking like crap on offense every year. Maybe Adelman could do something there.

Adelman is also pretty good dealing with odd personalities, as someone else said... and lord knows we got a lot of those.

SoupIsGood
04-07-2006, 12:38 AM
Also, if DW/LB truly do operate on something as silly and arbitrary as a three year rule, I'm switching franchises.

Evan_The_Dude
04-07-2006, 01:10 AM
I don't know what the hell I was thinking about Adelman's team vs. Musselmans team. Wrong admitted...

Anyway, I'm high on Muss because of what I saw the two years he spent in GS... I was most impressed with his second one. That on top of the fact that I like his coaching style - the way he adapts to his players - and how he keeps them on their toes. I also like the fact that he did have the tendency to ride the hell out of the hot hand, and he's not afraid to make a player earn his spot in the rotation.

They might sound similar in an overall internet forum comparison, but believe me from watching Muss closely, they're NOTHING alike.

Evan_The_Dude
04-07-2006, 01:11 AM
Also, if DW/LB truly do operate on something as silly and arbitrary as a three year rule, I'm switching franchises.

Yeah I think it would be a bit silly too. But at the same time I think it would be Carlisle to step down, not TPTB firing him. Besides, if they were really intent on imposing the 3 year rule, he wouldn't have signed a 4 year deal.

Bball
04-07-2006, 03:32 AM
Also, if DW/LB truly do operate on something as silly and arbitrary as a three year rule, I'm switching franchises.

Here's how I read the 3 year rule... It isn't something written in granite. It doesn't mean a coach can't last longer or even a shorter period of time. It's just an average number that Bird felt was applicable.

When a coach has had the turmoil Rick Carlisle has dealt with then IMHO it is going to cause him to push a lot of buttons and eventually it is going to cause friction. Particularly with a mentally weak team like we have. That's why I can see the '3 year rule' being applicable here.

If 11/19 had never happened and every season was 50-60 wins, relatively injury free, Bender looking like Wilt, and ECF's then maybe the friction can be forestalled some BUT if a coach is really trying to press his team eventually it will wear thin. Even 50-60 win seasons might not be enough to keep friction from setting in if the team falls short.

If a team wins 3 straight championships then in all likelihood the coach will not have worn out his welcome with the players and they will still be looking up at him. But when expectations are not being met internally the coach's voice is probably the easiest for ego-driven professionals to question and ultimately tune out (you don't expect the players to look in the mirror and point the finger there do you?).

-Bball

Bball
04-07-2006, 03:41 AM
Yeah I think it would be a bit silly too. But at the same time I think it would be Carlisle to step down, not TPTB firing him. Besides, if they were really intent on imposing the 3 year rule, he wouldn't have signed a 4 year deal.

Actually, the 4 year contract makes all the sense in the world to me if you are operating on a '3 year rule' type scenario. You don't want the coach to be a lame duck in that 3rd year.

Which brings up another reason to really take a long, hard look at keeping Carlisle or not. I don't think it's a stretch to say player changes will be needed or else he'll HAVE to be gone. But even with those changes, can he pick up the pieces and put it all back together next year operating in the final year of his contract? Do we extend his contract so he's not a lame duck next season if he's still here? And what kind of vote of confidence do you give him via that extension... 1 extra year....2....3... ???

I'm not sure not extending him would be fair to him or give him much of a chance to turn things around. OTOH, I'm not sure extending him is really going to sit well with the fans... especially if it ties management's hands and limits our flexibility with player movement, etc..



-Bball

Downtown Threat
04-07-2006, 06:23 AM
As a Kings fan I sure as hell hope Adelman stays with us.