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View Full Version : Is it time to say goodbye to Rick Carlisle?



Shade
04-02-2006, 02:10 PM
This was nearly overwhelming at the party. Will be interesting to see the result on a broader scale.

Evan_The_Dude
04-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Voted yes. Reason is more for a new face, and new direction which is what I believe we need. However as I've said before I'm not opposed to him staying. I just think there will be a mutual resignation this offseason.

Kaufman
04-02-2006, 02:22 PM
3 year rule. Too much has happened here. Team has tuned him out. I'm not sure he couldn't come back and coach the Pacers in 5 - 10 years, but right now we're more suited for Bo Hill.

Evan_The_Dude
04-02-2006, 02:35 PM
Eric Musselman

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 02:40 PM
I'll repeat what I said at the party. If I become convinced Rick has lost the team, then he needs to go. It is a shame, because he's a great coach. But I'm no convinced yet that he's lost the team, I want to see what happens in the next two weeks. So we'll see

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 02:41 PM
Eric Musselman



You stole my answer

Kaufman
04-02-2006, 02:42 PM
I'd like an Indiana guy personally.

Peck
04-02-2006, 02:43 PM
Just for fairness I did not cast my vote. Diamond Dave voted on my account.

However, I think I am now at the point where I am ready to have him gone no matter what.

I just think it's time for a new voice.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
04-02-2006, 02:47 PM
I voted "no, with changes".

Rick Carlisle is one of the top coaches in the league. Good coaches are a lot harder to find than a big group of no-heart, no-passion (but talented!) players.

Doug in CO
04-02-2006, 03:54 PM
He needs to go - he has lost this team and this team needs a motivator.

Eric Musselman - sure.

Mark Jackson was a popular name at the party.

Not sure there is an Indiana guy worth a shot.

If Majerus would get his stomach stapled I would like him.

Jermaniac
04-02-2006, 03:56 PM
You already know what I think of Rick

Outlaw
04-02-2006, 03:58 PM
I voted "no, with changes".

Rick Carlisle is one of the top coaches in the league. Good coaches are a lot harder to find than a big group of no-heart, no-passion (but talented!) players.

You are correct.:) In all fairness Rick has not had a full roster of players since he has been here. (1st yr. being the lone exception)

I am all for revamping the roster w/some exceptions (Granger,Foster,Sarunas & Harrison)

OTD
04-02-2006, 03:59 PM
Randy Whittman

Kaufman
04-02-2006, 03:59 PM
He needs to go - he has lost this team and this team needs a motivator.

Eric Musselman - sure.

Mark Jackson was a popular name at the party.

Not sure there is an Indiana guy worth a shot.

If Majerus would get his stomach stapled I would like him.

You don't think his health could handle it? Stomach stapling isn't as safe as many think it is. As far as Indiana people - sure you raise a good point, not a lot of eligible candidates out there.

Scott Skiles

Mark Jackson would be interesting, though no coaching experience. (LB and Isiah still had some front office experience.)

Mike Davis :) (wanted to coach NBA some day!)

Del Harris

But I guess I don't have a lot of thoughts myself on a lot of Indiana guys.

sweabs
04-02-2006, 04:01 PM
Rick is a very good coach in this league. He's had to put up with a lot, and hasn't exactly had the type of consistency or direction with the players that have been handed to him.

When he actually did have a cohesive unit of guys, we had a 61 win season.

He's shown that he can change his style and adapt, and I think if we brought in some new players with a clear direction, and Donnie/Larry communicate that direction/vision, then Rick could go do a better job. At least give him the chance with some new players.

SoupIsGood
04-02-2006, 04:03 PM
He's shown that he can change his style and adapt, and I think if we brought in some new players with a clear direction, and Donnie/Larry communicating that direction, then Rick could go do a better job. At least give him the chance with some new players.

Yup.

It's up to DW and LB to make some player changes, and not sit on thir hands during the offseason.

Kaufman
04-02-2006, 04:05 PM
Rick is a very good coach in this league. He's had to put up with a lot, and hasn't exactly had the type of consistency or direction with the players that have been handed to him.

When he actually did have a cohesive unit of guys, we had a 61 win season.

He's shown that he can change his style and adapt, and I think if we brought in some new players with a clear direction, and Donnie/Larry communicating that direction, then Rick could go do a better job. At least give him the chance with some new players.

One thing I want to say is that I do not think anyone is saying Rick is a bad coach. I think he's a good coach too. But I just think the team needs an overhaul. All the players in the brawl including coach. Just not a healthy situation.

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 04:08 PM
All the players in the brawl including coach. Just not a healthy situation.


I sometimes wonder, what if the brawl never took place, how would things be different right now

Doug in CO
04-02-2006, 04:10 PM
I think the fans want to turn the page from this version of the Pacers as well - I think Indy is just fed up. Can't remember a Pacers team more disliked - ever - than this one. And we're talking disliked WITHOUT Artest on the squad.

Jermaniac
04-02-2006, 04:10 PM
Ron would be on the Pacers right now, we would have been in the Finals last year. Jack wouldnt see as hated. Danny Granger wouldnt be a Pacer.

DeS
04-02-2006, 04:16 PM
I say - "fire Rick" and "make some changes". Where are no sense in firing Rick without making changes. I doubt that anyone could make a team using these players, but i'd like more flexibility at coaching position.

Shade
04-02-2006, 04:19 PM
Mike Davis :) (wanted to coach NBA some day!)

Dear Lord. You think we shoot a lot of jumpers now...

Kstat
04-02-2006, 04:23 PM
Look, even at my most critical, Rick is still a top-10 coach.

You want to fire him, that's one thing. But firing him in favor of a worse coach would be assinine.

Shade
04-02-2006, 04:39 PM
Look, even at my most critical, Rick is still a top-10 coach.

You want to fire him, that's one thing. But firing him in favor of a worse coach would be assinine.

If we decide that Rick is the coach we want for this team, then we're going to have to rebuild the team in his image, and with the intent of winning a championship during his tenure here (however long that may be).

Either way, I don't believe this team can coexist with this coach. Something has to change on one end or the other.

Kstat
04-02-2006, 04:40 PM
If we decide that Rick is the coach we want for this team, then we're going to have to rebuild the team in his image, and with the intent of winning a championship during his tenure here (however long that may be).

Either way, I don't believe this team can coexist with this coach. Something has to change on one end or the other.

....as opposed to reboulding the team in Bo Hill's image? Mark Jackson's image? That makes more sense to you?

Other than Nelson I dont see one coach out there with better credentials than Carlisle.

Shade
04-02-2006, 04:42 PM
....as opposed to reboulding the team in Bo Hill's image? Mark Jackson's image? That makes more sense to you?

Other than Nelson I dont see one coach out there with better credentials than Carlisle.

Mark Jackson is a wild card. But you know us Indy fans -- we like to keep it in the family. ;)

Um...not in that way, of course. We're not Kentucky. :chuckle:

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 04:45 PM
I think I said this last night, but I do not want Mark Jackson

Shade
04-02-2006, 04:48 PM
I think I said this last night, but I do not want Mark Jackson
Yeah...you want the Muscle-Man. :flex:

PaceBalls
04-02-2006, 05:06 PM
I want them to keep Rick. It's not his fault they traded Al and Ron away. This team would be at the very bottom without Rick imho

piksi
04-02-2006, 05:09 PM
Rick Adelman will be available after the season. I don't think that he would want to extend with Kings if another offer pops up.

SoupIsGood
04-02-2006, 05:12 PM
Rick Adelman eh?


I could dig that

Evan_The_Dude
04-02-2006, 05:19 PM
Rick Adelman for assistant coach? Yes. He's an offensive genious. But as a head coach? Hell no.

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 05:37 PM
Let me also say this, I'm convinced the Pacers will make significant player moves in the offseason, and with that being the case, I'd have no problem what-so-ever if Rick were still the coach next season

SoupIsGood
04-02-2006, 05:39 PM
Rick Adelman for assistant coach? Yes. He's an offensive genious. But as a head coach? Hell no.


He's pretty good at dealing with things from the psychological or 'personality' standpoint.... (taking care of bad apples)... which is something people have always criticized Rick for.

If we fired Rick C, I would want Rick Adelman. But I'd rather have Rick C.

Aw Heck
04-02-2006, 05:56 PM
Rick deserves another season (that's all he has left on his contract anyway). Give him a training camp and full season without Mr. Psycho, and with players who will stay healthy (physically and mentally). Let him construct an offense with the new players we have. Let him adapt. He's a very good coach and shouldn't just be tossed aside.

Many of you are saying you don't like the players on this team anyway. Well, let TPTB go out and get some new players and see what Rick can do with them. If the Pacers have a healthy season with few distractions, then make your judgment. If the same problems still keep coming up, then it's time to dismiss the coach. If the Pacers have yet another injury-riddled season, then it's not the coach, it's the players, and it's time to blow it all up and start rebuilding.

pacerwaala
04-02-2006, 08:29 PM
Give him two more years!

pizza guy
04-02-2006, 10:39 PM
Rick has moments that make me want to jump off the roof of my house. He also has moments that make me want to jump for joy. I would give him another chance if we dump Tins, SJax, and probably AJ and Freddie; and somehow get a good PG and a good SG. I think he could work with the rest of them. This team badly needs a leader, and so far JO hasn't fulfilled that, and RC has us wondering if he's the right kind of guy for the job. Give us a PG that has good leadership skills (like Mark Jackson, or currently Chauncey Billups) and I'd be A LOT more confident in our chances under Rick. If none of that stuff happens, I'll most likely join grace as a Bulls' fan. ;)

Let him finish the contract, but if it doesn't work out, no more chances.

indyblue47
04-02-2006, 11:11 PM
Well, the poll was closed when I got here, but I'd have to say, "Give him another year!"

He drives me crazy with his lineups at times (okay, alot of times), BUT--- he has been placed in this precarious position of never being able to have a full squad for any length of time.

And honestly, I don't think you can go back and find ANY coach that could handle this group of prima donnas.

I have loved the Pacers since 1979, when I moved here, but I have never been so disgusted with any of them as I am now!

Tinsley, Jackson - I'm all for these two being shipped out. AJ - if he is ordered to find the open man when the situation warrants it, or get shipped out also.

Jermain, quit holding the d$#@ ball so long!! Or your a$$ goes as well.

I loved this team when there was all the injuries! Wow, did we run the other teams or what? We won games I didn't think we would, but then the old ways started trickling back in, and Coach didn't seem to want to keep our "winning ways" going! :rolleyes:

I have quit watching games for awhile. My ulcers couldn't take it any longer!:-o

Ragnar
04-03-2006, 12:22 AM
Since I was gone all day I will jump in before heading to bed.

I want Rick gone before the next game not just at the end of the season. He is the wrong coach for this team. I am not in any way saying he is a bad coach. Or that you could not put together a team that he would be the perfect coach for. But they built a team full of young athletic players and they got a coach who is perfect for old slow players. Its like watching your grandfather drive a Ferrari 25 miles under the speed limit with the turn signal on.

Hicks
04-03-2006, 12:25 AM
Why bring indygeezer into this? ;)

Peck
04-03-2006, 12:35 AM
Why bring indygeezer into this? ;)


Cold......

Kstat
04-03-2006, 12:57 AM
Cold......

Yeah.

Why mock the man when we all know damnwell he drives a Model-T, and those things can't go much faster than 20 miles under the speed limit anyhow.

Jose Slaughter
04-03-2006, 02:01 AM
Did someone change the poll results?

I'm sure I voted Yes, no matter what happens & now its showing zero votes.

Beowulfas
04-03-2006, 12:59 PM
Did someone change the poll results?

I'm sure I voted Yes, no matter what happens & now its showing zero votes.

Me too :confused:

Shade
04-03-2006, 01:01 PM
We had some poll issues, so it had to be closed. Sorry guys. Feel free to write in your choices instead.

IIRC, there were about 28 votes for the first option.

CableKC
04-03-2006, 01:22 PM
I still would like to see what Carlisle can do with a team that is semi-healthy and a little more drama-free. There is a reason why the Pacers are 2nd ( or 3rd...I don't know ) in the league when it comes to having a different starting lineup every other game and only so much Carlisle can do with the hand that he has been dealt.

I can blame Carlisle for various "questionable" coaching decisions made in the course of the year....but I cannot blame him for why we are where we are after 2 years of the circus that we have witnessed.

I think that many of our problems relate to having certain players on the roster. As UB said.....I am not entirely convinced that everyone has completely tuned Carlisle out...only certain key players ( SJax, Tinsley and to a certain extent...Freddie and even AJ ) that can be replaced.

I would want Carlisle to play out his contract for one more year....I just want to see what we can do with a semi-consistent roster. IMHO..in the end......its easier to replace players like SJax and Tinsley then it is to replace a coach like Carlisle.

CableKC
04-03-2006, 01:23 PM
We had some poll issues, so it had to be closed. Sorry guys. Feel free to write in your choices instead.

IIRC, there were about 28 votes for the first option.

I didnt vote.....cast my choice for:

D ) No, if we make some other changes

Doug
04-03-2006, 02:27 PM
Let me also say this, I'm convinced the Pacers will make significant player moves in the offseason, and with that being the case, I'd have no problem what-so-ever if Rick were still the coach next season

This is pretty much where I'm at, too. There will be major player moves - enough that it will be a significantly different team. In that instance, I'm OK with Rick coaching it - unless someone can convience me there's a better coach out there. In which case, might as well make the switch there, too.

This is another possibility, though. Rick might just quit. I think he's pretty well burnt out dealing with this current group of players and all of the drama from the last two seasons. The current Pacers are pretty "high maintanence". There's only so much of that you can take.

McClintic Sphere
04-03-2006, 02:30 PM
Randy Wittman is still available

btowncolt
04-03-2006, 02:31 PM
Randy Wittman's still available

Alford probably is too.

Since they both somehow haves ties to the state of Indiana, I'm sure they're obviously the most qualified candidates.

McClintic Sphere
04-03-2006, 02:33 PM
Alford probably is too.

Since they both somehow haves ties to the state of Indiana, I'm sure they're obviously the most qualified candidates.

They are obviously not even qualified to be interviewed.

RWB
04-03-2006, 02:40 PM
So, will Donnie break the gender barrier by hiring the first NBA female coach?

Doug
04-03-2006, 02:42 PM
IMO, restricting your head coach search to only coachs with Indiana ties is pretty silly. I'd want the best possible coach, no matter where he's from, where he's coached, or what school he played for.

McClintic Sphere
04-03-2006, 02:47 PM
IMO, restricting your head coach search to only coachs with Indiana ties is pretty silly. I'd want the best possible coach, no matter where he's from, where he's coached, or what school he played for.

Right, restricting your choice in any way is silly. They went the other way and didn't even consider someone from Indiana. If you graduated from a school and had a pretty good track record in some area of employment would you not expect to be allowed to interview if a position in that field opened up?

Doug
04-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Right, restricting your choice in any way is silly. They went the other way and didn't even consider someone from Indiana. If you graduated from a school and had a pretty good track record in some area of employment would you not expect to be allowed to interview if a position in that field opened up?

IU? Sorry, I didn't follow their coaching search.

Mourning
04-03-2006, 03:06 PM
We had a similar discussion a few weeks ago. Should we let the coach go, should we let some players and the coach go or do we let some of the players go and give the coach a last chance?

I always think it's important to FIRST decide what direction management want the team to go in, before deciding on what to do with the coach.

Here's what I wrote down in response Burtrem.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=365551#post365551



Originally Posted by Burtrem Redneck
"In fact, I'd prefer to see him leave on good terms because 5-10 years from now we might like to have him back with a fresh group of faces" - peck

The thing is... we have new players, and during this offseason we are gonna have even more. So I think there is a choice of personel moves or a coaching change and keep the team pretty much as it stands now.

2ndly, finding someone else who is better than rick is a big deal. A fresh face is only fresh for a short time. Why give up the best coach we can find for half a year of freshness eh? I am saying this thinking Rick is by far the best coach we can find


I disagree with your first point. I think IF you want to get new players you better be sure of who you want your headcoach to be or you could get into the situation of signing some forinstance shoot-first PGs who the coach preferred, the coach getting the boot and then another coach getting installed who likes more traditional PGs more.

1) Management needs to make a firm decision which direction they want the team to go in (offense - defense oriented, team play - isolation play, etc) and

2) then conclude IF the current coach is going to get that job done in their mind,

3) look how many other QUALITY coaches are out there that sort of support the direction you want the team to be going in and then

4) decide IF you keep the current coach or not and if the playing philosophy you desire as management has enough following amongst quality coaches, so that when we lose a coach during a season or after one season we don't have to completely abandon what we were trying to build up and finally then if this is all worked out

5) the team trades for other players/signs FA's

Just my personal opinion. I do aggree it is going to be a lot harder to replace Rick then I think some are thinking around here.

I don't know much about Musselman, didn't he got worn out by his players too? I don't want Jeff Van Gundy "IF" he gets the boot and to be honest I'm not really sure who I really like. I like D'antoni and I like Scott Skiles, but they adhere different playing philosophies and are going to be impossible to get.

I know a lot of you may HATE this, but I'm hoping Popovich leaves the Spurs SOMEHOW. I would love to have him over here.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Diesel_81
04-04-2006, 12:00 AM
Personally if I had an option I would gutt half the team in favor to keep Carlisle here.Like others have said he's one of the best coaches out and If somebody out there is an upgrade by all means go ahead but right now I don't see it. Don Nelson, Eric Musselmen are names that have been mentioned both are good coaches but again I don't consider them upgrades.No matter who the next coach is changes are going to have to be made whether it is lunch pale type guys who bring intensity every nigth or guys with a high basketball IQ and play unselfishly.Both of these are things missing from this years team.

Bball
04-05-2006, 02:50 AM
So, will Donnie break the gender barrier by hiring the first NBA female coach?

If he thought it would sell tickets and she could get us into the playoffs, he'd do it.

-Bball

Kaufman
04-05-2006, 08:45 AM
IMO, restricting your head coach search to only coachs with Indiana ties is pretty silly. I'd want the best possible coach, no matter where he's from, where he's coached, or what school he played for.
I don't think ANYONE is restricting it, but I think given all things equal otherwise, I'd rather the Indiana guy.

naptownmenace
04-05-2006, 09:26 AM
Look, even at my most critical, Rick is still a top-10 coach.

You want to fire him, that's one thing. But firing him in favor of a worse coach would be assinine.

I have to agree.

I'm more for seeing the Pacers trade Tinsley, Jax, and maybe even JO than I am for them firing Rick. Either way, Tinsley is #1 on the list to go.

IMO, this team is too lopsided. They're a bad shooting team, with pretty good defense but the roster is too redundant and filled with too many players that think they are Superstars-in-the-making. The Pacers really needed that 2 or 3 for 1 trade that they never made.

I'd rather the Pacers remake the roster than let Rick go. Who would replace him? How would they be any better than Rick?

Any other team in the situations they've had to withstand would've caved in a long time ago.

Skaut_Ech
04-05-2006, 10:31 AM
Pretty interesting seeing where some folks stand on this issue.

I think it's either/or with this team.

I say keep Rick if certain players can be traded: Tinsley, Jackson, Fred Jones and possibly Jermaine (as the lure of a blockbuster deal) and refocus this team on a different model than the current focus on Jermaine/Jackson/Tinsley


or


If you're going to stay the course with the roster, then Rick must go.

One or the other must be done.

This is not a stay the course issue. I won't get into minutae of Rick's coaching, but he doesn't seem to know how to utilize this team and adapt during games. (Saras misuse is the most glaring example.) Maybe a squad more tailored to what he wants to do might make for a more effective Pacer's squad.

indygeezer
04-05-2006, 11:03 AM
Pretty interesting seeing where some folks stand on this issue.

I think it's either/or with this team.

I say keep Rick if certain players can be traded: Tinsley, Jackson, Fred Jones and possibly Jermaine (as the lure of a blockbuster deal) and refocus this team on a different model than the current focus on Jermaine/Jackson/Tinsley


or


If you're going to stay the course with the roster, then Rick must go.

One or the other must be done.

This is not a stay the course issue. I won't get into minutae of Rick's coaching, but he doesn't seem to know how to utilize this team and adapt during games. (Saras misuse is the most glaring example.) Maybe a squad more tailored to what he wants to do might make for a more effective Pacer's squad.


And a more boring one?

To me, the proof is what I have seen two years in a row. When "the team" comes back from injury/suspension they stopped playing the good ball and went back to the old style. IMO, changes in personnel are needed because of their attitude and because they seem to have QUIT (I CANNOT ABIDE QUITTERS), but a change at the helm is also needed. Sorry Rick, yer a nice guy and all that, but the constant square peg ina round hole bit just don't make it.

ChicagoJ
04-05-2006, 11:55 PM
We're 1-5 in the last six, and we've given up more than 100 points in all six.

What more evidence do people need to see that this team has quit on Rick. We won tonight only because Mike James didn't get hot in the fourth quarter.

I'm no Larry Bird fan, but I'd rather he take over for the last eight and the playoffs.

Gyron
04-06-2006, 11:11 AM
And a more boring one?

To me, the proof is what I have seen two years in a row. When "the team" comes back from injury/suspension they stopped playing the good ball and went back to the old style. IMO, changes in personnel are needed because of their attitude and because they seem to have QUIT (I CANNOT ABIDE QUITTERS), but a change at the helm is also needed. Sorry Rick, yer a nice guy and all that, but the constant square peg ina round hole bit just don't make it.

OMG geezer is that a basketball related post??????

I thought you gave it up for Lent!

:-o :-o :-o

You better watch it, you are going to have to go to confession now or see more of this guy:devil: .....

Shade
04-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Pretty interesting seeing where some folks stand on this issue.

I think it's either/or with this team.

I say keep Rick if certain players can be traded: Tinsley, Jackson, Fred Jones and possibly Jermaine (as the lure of a blockbuster deal) and refocus this team on a different model than the current focus on Jermaine/Jackson/Tinsley


or


If you're going to stay the course with the roster, then Rick must go.

One or the other must be done.

This is not a stay the course issue. I won't get into minutae of Rick's coaching, but he doesn't seem to know how to utilize this team and adapt during games. (Saras misuse is the most glaring example.) Maybe a squad more tailored to what he wants to do might make for a more effective Pacer's squad.

I agree 100%. Either Rick OR the roster could be salvagable, but not both together.