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Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 02:34 AM
Peck's thread gave me an idea, and really made me miss Baby Al so I thought of this.

If Peja decides to go on and sign with another team this summer, would you guys mind if we gave the money we would have signed Peja with to Al?

I for one wouldnt mind it at all, Al can play the 4 and the 3, so if we wanted to we could still start him at the 4, JO at center and start Danny at the 3 and not keep Danny out of the starting line up for a long time.

Just an idea, I would love to get Peja back but if we lose him getting Al back wouldnt be a bad 2nd option at all. I'm sure he would like to be back in Indy also.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 02:43 AM
If Peja decides to go on and sign with another team this summer, would you guys mind if we gave the money we would have signed Peja with to Al?

moot point because you CAN'T give Harrington the same money you can give Peja.

The most you can offer Al is the MLE, and I guarentee you he'll get more than that elsewhere.

Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 02:53 AM
Ohh yes you are right because of the new CBA, well there you go KStat you just crushed my dreams.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 02:54 AM
Ohh yes you are right because of the new CBA, well there you go KStat you just crushed my dreams.

It would have been the same with the old CBA anyway.

Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 02:55 AM
I thought there was some new rule where you get to offer your FA's more money then any other team?

Kstat
04-01-2006, 02:58 AM
I thought there was some new rule where you get to offer your FA's more money then any other team?

That's not a new rule.

If you're over the salary cap (which Indaina is), you can't sign anybody else's players for more than the MLE. NBA teams didnt even have the MLE until 2000.

The fact Al's current team can offer him more money is almost irrelevant, because since Indiana's over the cap, they can't offer Al Harrington what other teams with cap room can to begin with.

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:05 AM
We could do a sign and trade scenario Jermaniac.

I doubt Peja would want to go to Atlanta so there would have to be a lot of phone calls and cooperation to make it work.

And it wouldn't have to be Peja that we re-sign to do the trade. Al could re-sign with Atlanta and we could trade some other Pacer players for him.

Your dream doesn't have to be crushed entirely by Kstat.

-Bball

Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 03:09 AM
Send Stephen back to Atlanta. Makes it even better.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:10 AM
Somehow I doubt that would work.

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:14 AM
Let Atlanta re-sign Al and then we can trade JO for him plus whatever else they'll give us.

Now, I'm crushing Jermaniac's dream.

-Bball

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 03:15 AM
Peja will be resigned. No way will Bird, Walsh, and the Simons allow such a magnificent All-Star talent to leave. The cash will be ponyed up.

6 years/$72,000,000

Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 03:16 AM
Then I would have to hate Al by default. Cause if JO ever gets trade who ever we get back I have to hate, thats just how it goes.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:19 AM
6 years/$72,000,000

Sadly, I think the Pacers would actually pay that much for him.

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:20 AM
HulkSmash,
Peja has a say in this too. He might want to run from this dysfunctional mess as fast as he can unless he can get some assurances that changes are coming. And even that might not be enough if he'd just prefer to go elsewhere and leave the question marks behind.

-Bball

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:21 AM
Then I would have to hate Al by default. Cause if JO ever gets trade who ever we get back I have to hate, thats just how it goes.

Be prepared to hate someone because I don't think JO's Pacer stock is on the rise.

-Bball

Jermaniac
04-01-2006, 03:22 AM
I will bet you 2 dollars JO doesnt get traded

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:22 AM
bball, Indiana will pay as much as possible to keep Larry Bird's dream boy. Bird will see to that.

They'll make it worth Peja's while to stay, no matter what his vision of the team is.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 03:26 AM
Sadly, I think the Pacers would actually pay that much for him.
That's market value for a multi-time All-Star small forward in the prime of his career.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:29 AM
That's market value for a multi-time All-Star small forward in the prime of his career.

I think Peja's worth maybe 9-10 million per season, not 11-12 million.

The extra 2 million might not seem like a big difference, but it is.

You better be suere that JO and Peja are your championship 1-2 combo, because they'll both be making 30-35 million combined until the end of the decade, and you won't really have the cash to go after any other big names.

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:32 AM
I will bet you 2 dollars JO doesnt get traded

Traded this summer or before his contract runs out? This summer... dunno... Before his contract runs out- I'll take that action.

JO is not getting any younger and he's not living up to that contract that is only getting more expensive. Eventually, if not a basketball decision, a financial decision will have to be made.

-Bball

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:35 AM
I think Peja's worth maybe 9-10 million per season, not 11-12 million.

The extra 2 million might not seem like a big difference, but it is.

You better be suere that JO and Peja are your championship 1-2 combo, because they'll both be making 30-35 million combined until the end of the decade, and you won't really have the cash to go after any other big names.

I think if Peja does get that kind of money from the Pacers it won't mean they see the Peja/JO combo as their championship combo... It'll mean JO is not seen as a piece of that puzzle and the team will start entertaining trade talk. I bet they already are but it'll get more serious.

-Bball

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:38 AM
I can't see anybody trading for JO. He makes way too much. I think he's locked in to Indy.

Bball
04-01-2006, 03:40 AM
I can't see anybody trading for JO.

A sucker is born everyday.



He makes way too much.

You got that right.



I think he's locked in to Indy.

Don't be crushing my dreams... Stick to crushing Jermaniac's.

(If we could trade Jalen, hopefully if JO is needed to be moved we can trade him as well)

-Bball

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 03:45 AM
I think Peja's worth maybe 9-10 million per season, not 11-12 million.

The extra 2 million might not seem like a big difference, but it is.

You better be suere that JO and Peja are your championship 1-2 combo, because they'll both be making 30-35 million combined until the end of the decade, and you won't really have the cash to go after any other big names.
9-10 million is Joe Johnson money. Peja's far more accomplished than Joe Johnson, both individually and team-wise.

Indiana has no reasonable chance at being under the cap within the next 5-6 years, so your comment about the Pacers not having the cash to go after any other big names because of the $2M~ in salary differential is null.

If you can get Peja for $9-10,000,000, go for it. But if it takes an average of $2,000,000 more per season to keep him here, then thats just what you'll have to pay.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 03:45 AM
A sucker is born everyday.



Unless you plan to trade him to the Knicks, you're out of luck.

There isnt a player available making what JO makes that the Pacers would accept, and they aren't just going to do a salary dump.

Arcadian
04-01-2006, 04:01 AM
Peja for 6 years/$72,000,000 would send me over to the darkside. I'd go PFFL.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 04:07 AM
Peja for 6 years/$72,000,000 would send me over to the darkside. I'd go PFFL. That's the going rate for the most part. No lower than $10M per, no higher than $12M. Either pay it, or lose him for nothing, which would set us back atleast 5 years.

Evan_The_Dude
04-01-2006, 06:44 AM
6 years scares me more than the 72mill. I know Bird will keep Peja, but I don't think it would be a good idea to bend over backwards to do so. If 6 years 72mill is his final offer, I'd say go with Granger as our starting 3 next season. Then work out some kind of Sign and trade with Peja... (Doesn't Larry like Ben Gordon?)

Mourning
04-01-2006, 06:57 AM
I would rather dump as many players as possible then giving Peja 72 million. I like the guy and I like what he brings, but in the future I want to let JO play as much PF as possible and Granger as much SF as possible. That means Peja will be in the way.

Even if you take Peja fulltime at SF and let Granger take the back up minutes at SF and the rest of his minutes at PF then that cuts either big time into JO's minutes at PF (I don't want to see him more then 5-8 minutes at Center) OR into the total minutes Granger can play.

And that is not even taking into account that I rather not have Granger playing at PF with the frame and weight he has. I say IF we can we should package Peja + SJax or Peja + Tinsley for either a very good SG or PG depending on who the 2nd player is we send away.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

D-BONE
04-01-2006, 08:53 AM
You better be suere that JO and Peja are your championship 1-2 combo, because they'll both be making 30-35 million combined until the end of the decade, and you won't really have the cash to go after any other big names.

Cringe! Groan! Nails scratching chalk board! Please tell me it's just a nightmare.

Tim
04-01-2006, 09:09 AM
I will just throw this out there, if Peja left then we start Danger. I would be happy with that.

Also, I am a supporter of Al but I don't want him getting in Danger's way.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 12:05 PM
You dont let Peja walk period.

Why decide between Peja and Granger, when you dont have to?

Re-sign Peja, play him untill Grangers ready to start, then work out a deal to move Peja for a shooting guard. Is it really that hard?

Mourning
04-01-2006, 12:15 PM
You dont let Peja walk period.

Why decide between Peja and Granger, when you dont have to?

Re-sign Peja, play him untill Grangers ready to start, then work out a deal to move Peja for a shooting guard. Is it really that hard?

It is with Peja not getting any younger. Why not include him someone else and send him for reenforcement on a position that really needs it? He's one of the better players we have that could actually net us something worthwhile.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 12:19 PM
Isn\'t that pretty much exactly what I just said in the post you quoted? lol

Mourning
04-01-2006, 12:49 PM
Not really. I don't think we are going to get much back from a Peja with a fat new contract, dwindling minutes and beying atleast one and half year's older.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:30 PM
Peja will be resigned. No way will Bird, Walsh, and the Simons allow such a magnificent All-Star talent to leave. The cash will be ponyed up.

6 years/$72,000,000

He's not worth it.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:31 PM
Sadly, I think the Pacers would actually pay that much for him.

Bet you they don't.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:33 PM
bball, Indiana will pay as much as possible to keep Larry Bird's dream boy. Bird will see to that.

They'll make it worth Peja's while to stay, no matter what his vision of the team is.

You're ignoring the handwriting on the wall. Danny Granger is the star of the future.(SOON) And he plays Peja's position. If Danny hadn't happened, they might well have followed your scenerio.
Not now.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:34 PM
That's market value for a multi-time All-Star small forward in the prime of his career.

That's the problem, he's NOT in the prime anymore. He's started the decent....and it's goes faster rather than slower in the NBA. (for most)

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:38 PM
I can't see anybody trading for JO. He makes way too much. I think he's locked in to Indy.

Not. He's one of the top 5 low post threats in the league. 20/10 guys are ALWAYS in much more demand than supply allows.
1/2 the teams in the league would ante up for jermaine if he were available.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:42 PM
I will just throw this out there, if Peja left then we start Danger. I would be happy with that.

Also, I am a supporter of Al but I don't want him getting in Danger's way.

Jermaine/Al/Granger is as enticing to me as Jermaine/Al/Ron was. Al's strength and Danny's shot blocking and rebounding for a 3 help balance jermaine's borderline strength as a 5. I would love to see that lineup.
We both know how much this team needs an "Al" in the lockerroom and on the floor.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:42 PM
You dont let Peja walk period.

Why decide between Peja and Granger, when you dont have to?

Re-sign Peja, play him untill Grangers ready to start, then work out a deal to move Peja for a shooting guard. Is it really that hard?

Granger is ready NOW. He needs to be starting next season from day 1.

PacerMan
04-01-2006, 01:44 PM
It is with Peja not getting any younger. Why not include him someone else and send him for reenforcement on a position that really needs it? He's one of the better players we have that could actually net us something worthwhile.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Sign trade Peja and send him and Jax or one of the pg's for a primo 2 guard.
Draft the best pg we can get.

sweabs
04-01-2006, 01:47 PM
That has to be a record.

SoupIsGood
04-01-2006, 01:48 PM
That has to be a record.:lol:

Kegboy
04-01-2006, 07:58 PM
:laugh:

Anyway, I said at the party that I don't want to pay Peja more than 10 per. Considering that there are multiple teams under the cap that are gonna go after him, we should Brad him. I'm afraid Larry will give him a blank check.

FreshPrince22
04-01-2006, 08:09 PM
The Pacers WONT pay Peja that ridiculous money. He hasn't proven he can do the job in the playoffs, and there won't be a huge demand for him. Teams with capspace would be stupid to go after him. If I were the Pacers, I would let him walk. Granger > Peja. You're sealing Grangers fate if you have Peja locked in for 5-6 more years and JO locked in untill 2010.

CableKC
04-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Peja will be resigned. No way will Bird, Walsh, and the Simons allow such a magnificent All-Star talent to leave. The cash will be ponyed up.

6 years/$72,000,000
That seems like a lot of money to offer Peja. Its not that he isn't worth a pretty decent contract....I'm more concerned about giving him such a big long term contract at his age.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 09:57 PM
Yeah, teams would be stupid to go after a proven winner like Peja, 3-time All-Star, 25 ppg caliber scorer http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/

Peja is an All-Star folks. Get that through your heads. Hes proven he can be the premiere player on a top-2 team, very few players can say that. When Peja was the #1 option for the Kings, they were dominant. When his shots were being stolen by the overrated Mike Bibby, they slipped back into mediocrity. That\'s not a coincedence.

Theres not a better shooter in the league than Peja, and there hasnt been a better shooter in over a decade. Hes a phenomonal scorer, a great rebounder, solid defender, and most importantly, a proven big time winner.

Peja will get $10M-$12M a year, and Indiana would be killing the franchise if they let him walk.

FreshPrince22
04-01-2006, 10:10 PM
Yeah, teams would be stupid to go after a proven winner like Peja, 3-time All-Star, 25 ppg caliber scorer http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/

Peja is an All-Star folks. Get that through your heads. Hes proven he can be the premiere player on a top-2 team, very few players can say that. When Peja was the #1 option for the Kings, they were dominant. When his shots were being stolen by the overrated Mike Bibby, they slipped back into mediocrity. That\'s not a coincedence.

Theres not a better shooter in the league than Peja, and there hasnt been a better shooter in over a decade. Hes a phenomonal scorer, a great rebounder, solid defender, and most importantly, a proven big time winner.

Peja will get $10M-$12M a year, and Indiana would be killing the franchise if they let him walk.

:laugh:

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 10:20 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/ Didnt think youd have a valid comeback. Good to see you atleast know when youve been proven wrong and dont even try to defend yourself. By the way - Peja has averaged 20/7/2 on outragous 46/41/90 shooting since coming to the Pacers. Hes back to his All-Star self after a terrible 31 games in Sacramento. So yeah, lets let him walk. That would be real good for the franchises future. If you wanna talk about overpaid players, lets talk about Tayshaun Prince and his mighty 14 points, 4 rebounds, and 2 assists per game getting $10M per season. Theyre paying him nearly a million dollars per point scored http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/ Peja >>>>>>>>> Tayshaun Prince </br> </br> $12M or hes gone.

Hicks
04-01-2006, 10:28 PM
You have to overpay to keep multi all-star caliber players.

Kstat
04-01-2006, 10:28 PM
:lurk:

VF21
04-01-2006, 10:38 PM
Yeah, teams would be stupid to go after a proven winner like Peja, 3-time All-Star, 25 ppg caliber scorer http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/

Peja is an All-Star folks. Get that through your heads. Hes proven he can be the premiere player on a top-2 team, very few players can say that. When Peja was the #1 option for the Kings, they were dominant. When his shots were being stolen by the overrated Mike Bibby, they slipped back into mediocrity. That\'s not a coincedence.

Theres not a better shooter in the league than Peja, and there hasnt been a better shooter in over a decade. Hes a phenomonal scorer, a great rebounder, solid defender, and most importantly, a proven big time winner.

Peja will get $10M-$12M a year, and Indiana would be killing the franchise if they let him walk.

:buddies:

I'll have some of whatever you've been drinking.

FreshPrince22
04-01-2006, 10:45 PM
Didnt think youd have a valid comeback. Good to see you atleast know when youve been proven wrong and dont even try to defend yourself. By the way - Peja has averaged 20/7/2 on outragous 46/41/90 shooting since coming to the Pacers. Hes back to his All-Star self after a terrible 31 games in Sacramento. So yeah, lets let him walk. That would be real good for the franchises future. If you wanna talk about overpaid players, lets talk about Tayshaun Prince and his mighty 14 points, 4 rebounds, and 2 assists per game getting $10M per season. Theyre paying him nearly a million dollars per point scored http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/ Peja >>>>>>>>> Tayshaun Prince

$12M or hes gone.

What team is he going to walk to to get 12 million? Please tell me. Of the teams that will have the capspace, who wants a 29 year old one-dimensional shooter enough to give them 12 million per year for 5 years?

As for Tayshaun... He's not even on his new contract yet, so I don't know what you're talking about. Next year, He'll make about $8 Million (an average of 9 million over the entire 5 years of the contract). He's 25 years old, plays lock down D, and he scores 14ppg as the 4th offensive option on a proven championship team. Peja scores 19ppg as the 1st option on a .500 team. Contrary to what you seem to think, Peja isn't a proven winner on the NBA level. Tayshaun is. In fact, Peja is known for his disappearing acts, where as Tayshaun is known for coming up with big plays in the clutch (ask #31). I'm not even that high on Tayshaun like last year, but I would still take him 10 times out of 10 over Peja.

Again, if you didn't have granger, then I'd say sure, sign him. I just think it's stupid to forever bury a player with as much talent as Granger behind an aging 1 dimensional player with a history of back problems and other injuries. 6 years at 12 million per? You're crazy.

sweabs
04-01-2006, 10:59 PM
I agree with the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

Arcadian
04-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Again, if you didn't have granger, then I'd say sure, sign him. I just think it's stupid to forever bury a player with as much talent as Granger behind an aging 1 dimensional player with a history of back problems and other injuries. 6 years at 12 million per? You're crazy.

Unfortunately the question Pacer fans face is whether or not management is crazy.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 11:17 PM
What team is he going to walk to to get 12 million? Please tell me. Of the teams that will have the capspace, who wants a 29 year old one-dimensional shooter enough to give them 12 million per year for 5 years?

As for Tayshaun... Hes not even on his new contract yet, so I dont know what youre talking about. Next year, Hell make about $8 Million (an average of 9 million over the entire 5 years of the contract). Hes 25 years old, plays lock down D, and he scores 14ppg as the 4th offensive option on a proven championship team. Peja scores 19ppg as the 1st option on a .500 team. Contrary to what you seem to think, Peja isnt a proven winner on the NBA level. Tayshaun is. In fact, Peja is known for his disappearing acts, where as Tayshaun is known for coming up with big plays in the clutch (ask #31). Im not even that high on Tayshaun like last year, but I would still take him 10 times out of 10 over Peja.

Again, if you didnt have granger, then Id say sure, sign him. I just think its stupid to forever bury a player with as much talent as Granger behind an aging 1 dimensional player with a history of back problems and other injuries. 6 years at 12 million per? Youre crazy. Aging? Pejas 28. Hed be considered a spring chicken on the Pistons. Hes a proven winner - he was a 24+ ppg scorer on a 60+ win team. Hes never missed the playoffs in his 7 year career. As Pejas touches with the Kings went down, so did their number of wins. Pejas no more 1-dimensional than Shaq. When youre as dominant a shooter as Peja is, why do you need other dimensions? How many players are shooting 46/41/90 or better this year? Thats efficiency. As for Tayshaun Prince, hes a solid player but nothing special, certainly nowhere near being worth what his contract extension will pay him. Average scorer, solid defender, bad rebounder. Hes worth a little more than the MLE, yet starting next year hell be paid an average of $9.8M a year for 5 years. Thats being overpaid. Paying $12M for 3-time All-Star at his peak age-wise, a guy whos proven he can score over 24 ppg and grab over 6 rebounds per game on a 60+ win team, is paying market value. And who gives a damn if we already have a capable young player at Pejas position? You dont just give away All-Stars. Thats rediculous logic and logic that will get a team nowhere fast.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 11:22 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/

I\'ll have some of whatever you\'ve been drinking. Peja led your team to 60+ wins and a deep playoff run. Where has Mike Bibby led them? As Pejas role decreased, so did the number of wins. Thats a fact and you know it. It\'s a shame you\'ve turned your back on Peja. Hes done more for the Sacramento franchise than any other player. BTW - good luck with Ron Ron, Im sure hes truly a changed man and wont slowly destroy your team from the inside, out. :lol:

FreshPrince22
04-01-2006, 11:50 PM
Aging? Pejas 28.
I don't care how old he is at this minute. He'll be 29 before he steps on the court under his new contract. That would mean he'd be 35, making 15+ Million.


Hes a proven winner
Show me his Rings. Exactly. He was on a team that won an assload of regular season games and never won anything in the playoffs.


he was a 24+ ppg scorer on a 60+ win team. Hes never missed the playoffs in his 7 year career. As Pejas touches with the Kings went down, so did their number of wins.
Funny how that also coincides with Webber's decline and the dismantling of the team.


Pejas no more 1-dimensional than Shaq. When youre as dominant a shooter as Peja is, why do you need other dimensions? How many players are shooting 46/41/90 or better this year? Thats efficiency.

Yes, compare Peja to Shaq. Well done.



As for Tayshaun Prince, hes a solid player but nothing special, certainly nowhere near being worth what his contract extension will pay him. Average scorer, solid defender, bad rebounder. Hes worth a little more than the MLE, yet starting next year hell be paid an average of $9.8M a year for 5 years. Thats being overpaid.

Well, this "average scorer, solid defender, and bad rebounder" was a key component to a championship. He is tied for 5th in the entire league in overall +/- this year (behind only Wade, Vince, Lebron, and Kobe), and was 8th overall last year. He must be doing something right. He can score in many ways (our best post up player), he can run the point, he's an all-nba defender, and he does all of the little things that win championships.

Peja is past his prime, and Tayshaun still hasn't reached his yet. ohh, and it's 9.4 Million per year (5 years, 47 million), not 9.8 Mil.



Paying $12M for 3-time All-Star at his peak age-wise, a guy whos proven he can score over 24 ppg and grab over 6 rebounds per game on a 60+ win team, is paying market value.

Wake me up when he turns the Pacers into a 60+ win team. And if this is his peak "age wise", then why has he been headed in the wrong direction for the last 2 seasons?

pizza guy
04-02-2006, 12:00 AM
Send Stephen back to Atlanta. Makes it even better.

You know, I was thinking before I read this post that I don't want Al because he would be in Granger's way. Upon reading this, however, my viewpoint shifted and I agree 100%.

OK, so, it still doesn't make sense, but, I'd love to get rid of Jackson.

That's the only problem I have with Peja. I love his game, his shot is awesome, he's a better all-around player than I realized, and we know that he and Bird have man-crushes on each other. BUT, there is DG, all ready to start and be a stud, like we all want him to, with Peja in his way. While I'd like to keep Peja next season, I think it causes problems with those two that are extremely hard to solve.

PacerMan
04-02-2006, 02:30 AM
Yeah, teams would be stupid to go after a proven winner like Peja, 3-time All-Star, 25 ppg caliber scorer http://www.pacersdigest.com:80/forums/

Peja is an All-Star folks. Get that through your heads. Hes proven he can be the premiere player on a top-2 team, very few players can say that. When Peja was the #1 option for the Kings, they were dominant. When his shots were being stolen by the overrated Mike Bibby, they slipped back into mediocrity. That\'s not a coincedence.

Theres not a better shooter in the league than Peja, and there hasnt been a better shooter in over a decade. Hes a phenomonal scorer, a great rebounder, solid defender, and most importantly, a proven big time winner.

Peja will get $10M-$12M a year, and Indiana would be killing the franchise if they let him walk.

That's funny, I don't remember seeing him playing in the all star game.????
Oh you meant USED to be an all star?....

VF21
04-02-2006, 03:31 AM
Peja led your team to 60+ wins and a deep playoff run. Where has Mike Bibby led them? As Pejas role decreased, so did the number of wins. Thats a fact and you know it. It\'s a shame you\'ve turned your back on Peja. Hes done more for the Sacramento franchise than any other player. BTW - good luck with Ron Ron, Im sure hes truly a changed man and wont slowly destroy your team from the inside, out. :lol:


Heheheh. I love how people have to rationalize their comments about Peja by bringing up Artest.

This isn't about Artest. He could melt down tomorrow and it STILL wouldn't be about Artest.

Peja is a shooter. He's NOT the best shooter in the league. He's good - very, very good. But he's NOT a $72 million player.

Peja DIDN'T lead our team; he was PART of a cohesive unit. Peja doesn't want to lead; he doesn't know how to lead.

I liked Peja but once Vlade was gone, Peja was a mere shell of his former self. He suffered an endless number of "injuries" and - this year especially - was a mere memory of what he once was.

He apparently is doing well again with his new surroundings. I hope for his sake and yours that he continues to do so.

But don't fool yourself. He is NOT worth a 6-year contract. He has been playing professional basketball for a LONG time, and that includes summers on his national team. He has logged a LOT of hours. He's not going to be able to keep it up for six more years. It's just not going to happen.

As far as proven winner goes, yes he has won something - a world title with VLADE. And he hasn't done anything since.

I admire Peja; I loved watching him play. But he's not St. Predrag. He has failings and foibles and if you cannot recognize them, you are doomed to fall victim to them.

Peace.

Evan_The_Dude
04-02-2006, 04:12 AM
Heheheh. I love how people have to rationalize their comments about Peja by bringing up Artest.

This isn't about Artest. He could melt down tomorrow and it STILL wouldn't be about Artest.

Peja is a shooter. He's NOT the best shooter in the league. He's good - very, very good. But he's NOT a $72 million player.

Peja DIDN'T lead our team; he was PART of a cohesive unit. Peja doesn't want to lead; he doesn't know how to lead.

I liked Peja but once Vlade was gone, Peja was a mere shell of his former self. He suffered an endless number of "injuries" and - this year especially - was a mere memory of what he once was.

He apparently is doing well again with his new surroundings. I hope for his sake and yours that he continues to do so.

But don't fool yourself. He is NOT worth a 6-year contract. He has been playing professional basketball for a LONG time, and that includes summers on his national team. He has logged a LOT of hours. He's not going to be able to keep it up for six more years. It's just not going to happen.

As far as proven winner goes, yes he has won something - a world title with VLADE. And he hasn't done anything since.

I admire Peja; I loved watching him play. But he's not St. Predrag. He has failings and foibles and if you cannot recognize them, you are doomed to fall victim to them.

Peace.


Thank you for such a nice post! This is the same opinion on Peja that I have, and I too have watched pretty much every game he played in as a King. Hulksmash, Peja never let his team to anything. You can bring up Prince and Shaq all you want, but they have a history of showing up at playoff time no matter how one-diminsional you consider them... Not to mention they both have a ring(s).

rexnom
04-02-2006, 05:35 AM
I'd overpay for Peja if he could play the 2.

SoupIsGood
04-02-2006, 04:22 PM
If Peja isn't the best shooter, who is? He easily was a few years back.

I should probably know this, but I'm drawing a blank on the leaguewide sharpshooters

Kstat
04-02-2006, 04:24 PM
Ray Allen.

sweabs
04-02-2006, 04:25 PM
Ray Allen.

Yep.

SoupIsGood
04-02-2006, 04:27 PM
Ray Allen.

Ah, yup! I had forgot about him because his teams sucks now.

DeAthrow
04-02-2006, 04:39 PM
Heheheh. I love how people have to rationalize their comments about Peja by bringing up Artest.

This isn't about Artest. He could melt down tomorrow and it STILL wouldn't be about Artest.

Peja is a shooter. He's NOT the best shooter in the league. He's good - very, very good. But he's NOT a $72 million player.

Peja DIDN'T lead our team; he was PART of a cohesive unit. Peja doesn't want to lead; he doesn't know how to lead.

I liked Peja but once Vlade was gone, Peja was a mere shell of his former self. He suffered an endless number of "injuries" and - this year especially - was a mere memory of what he once was.

He apparently is doing well again with his new surroundings. I hope for his sake and yours that he continues to do so.

But don't fool yourself. He is NOT worth a 6-year contract. He has been playing professional basketball for a LONG time, and that includes summers on his national team. He has logged a LOT of hours. He's not going to be able to keep it up for six more years. It's just not going to happen.

As far as proven winner goes, yes he has won something - a world title with VLADE. And he hasn't done anything since.

I admire Peja; I loved watching him play. But he's not St. Predrag. He has failings and foibles and if you cannot recognize them, you are doomed to fall victim to them.

Peace.

I don't quite understand the point of brining up the fact he won a world championship with Vlade especially since Vlade sucked in the final game and if it was not for Bodiroga and Peja we wouldn't have won. You make it seem like Peja needs Vlade for everything.

And just an FYI, Peja won a European Championship without Vlade and was named tournament MVP.

You'll probably ocme back with something along the lines "Well, Vlade was in the stands holding Peja's hand during timeouts and at halftime...blah blah blah". :rolleyes:

DeAthrow
04-02-2006, 04:41 PM
As far as the contract goes I'd give Peja 4yrs/$45 million.

Someone mentioned him being number #1 option on the team right now which is BS cause he is not but should be right now. I can't even count how many games SJax and Jones took more shoots then Peja with a horrible shooting %.

Unclebuck
04-02-2006, 10:39 PM
Heheheh. I love how people have to rationalize their comments about Peja by bringing up Artest.

This isn't about Artest. He could melt down tomorrow and it STILL wouldn't be about Artest.

Peja is a shooter. He's NOT the best shooter in the league. He's good - very, very good. But he's NOT a $72 million player.

Peja DIDN'T lead our team; he was PART of a cohesive unit. Peja doesn't want to lead; he doesn't know how to lead.

I liked Peja but once Vlade was gone, Peja was a mere shell of his former self. He suffered an endless number of "injuries" and - this year especially - was a mere memory of what he once was.

He apparently is doing well again with his new surroundings. I hope for his sake and yours that he continues to do so.

But don't fool yourself. He is NOT worth a 6-year contract. He has been playing professional basketball for a LONG time, and that includes summers on his national team. He has logged a LOT of hours. He's not going to be able to keep it up for six more years. It's just not going to happen.

As far as proven winner goes, yes he has won something - a world title with VLADE. And he hasn't done anything since.

I admire Peja; I loved watching him play. But he's not St. Predrag. He has failings and foibles and if you cannot recognize them, you are doomed to fall victim to them.

Peace.


I agree with you

Kaufman
04-02-2006, 10:51 PM
At the end of the day I put my trust in DW 1st and LB 2nd. IF they decide he's worth x amount of money, I'm good with that.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 12:30 AM
Ray Allen. What\'s your basis for this? Is it his inferior career field goal percentage? Is it his inferior career 3 point shooting? Is it his inferior career free throw percentage? Is it his 1 Long Distance title to Peja\'s 2? Bottomline: If Ray Allen played with the Pacers, and Peja played with any other NBA team, Peja would be the best shooter in the league in your opinion. You\'re a troll. Get a life.

Kstat
04-03-2006, 12:45 AM
What\'s your basis for this? Is it his inferior career field goal percentage? Is it his inferior career 3 point shooting? Is it his inferior career free throw percentage? Is it his 1 Long Distance title to Peja\'s 2? Bottomline: If Ray Allen played with the Pacers, and Peja played with any other NBA team, Peja would be the best shooter in the league in your opinion.

So are Rcarey and Soup "trolls" also? Because, you know, they agreed with me..... or do you just lack the balls to come after another pacer fan, because you don't have the "you hate on him because he's a pacer" card to play?

It's the fact that from what I have seen, Ray Allen is simply a better shooter than Peja. That's my basis.


You\'re a troll. Get a life.

I have one, and I'm quite comfortable with it, thanks. :D

As for me being a troll, maybe I am, and maybe I'm not. That's for God to decide. But either way, I'm going to be here, so get used to it ;)

Kaufman
04-03-2006, 12:45 AM
What\'s your basis for this? Is it his inferior career field goal percentage? Is it his inferior career 3 point shooting? Is it his inferior career free throw percentage? Is it his 1 Long Distance title to Peja\'s 2? Bottomline: If Ray Allen played with the Pacers, and Peja played with any other NBA team, Peja would be the best shooter in the league in your opinion. You\'re a troll. Get a life.

Dude you need to chill out. Make yourself welcome first before you go insulting any of us.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 12:50 AM
I don\'t care how old he is at this minute. He\'ll be 29 before he steps on the court under his new contract. That would mean he\'d be 35, making 15+ Million.

Actually, completely incorrect. Depending on the starting salary annual percentage increases, Peja\'s max salary would be no more than $13.5M in its final year. And he\'d be 34 not 35. 34 for a player who relies on skill more so than athelticism is fine. Hell, Reggie played great untill his 40 and could still play at a high level if he so choose. By the way, I know you\'re sitting there counting on your fingers how it works out to 34, so I\'ll save you a lot of time and post it for you: Year 1 - 29 Year 2 - 30 Year 3 - 31 Year 4 - 32 Year 5 - 33 Year 6 - 34

Show me his Rings. Exactly. He was on a team that won an assload of regular season games and never won anything in the playoffs.

The whole \"show me his rings\" excuse is pretty weak. Show me KGs rings, show me T-Macs rings. Now show me Nazr Mohammed rings, and Darko Milicics rings. See what Im saying?

Funny how that also coincides with Webber\'s decline and the dismantling of the team.



Yes, compare Peja to Shaq. Well done.

Actualy it\'s perfect logic. You were whining about Peja being \"one-dimensional\". I used the equally one-dimensional Shaq to prove that when you\'re unstoppable with your one-dimension, you don\'t need anything else. I dont see anyone stopping Peja, 46/41/91 for his career, the best career shooting numbers in the league.


Well, this \"average scorer, solid defender, and bad rebounder\" was a key component to a championship. He is tied for 5th in the entire league in overall +/- this year (behind only Wade, Vince, Lebron, and Kobe), and was 8th overall last year. He must be doing something right. He can score in many ways (our best post up player), he can run the point, he\'s an all-nba defender, and he does all of the little things that win championships.
Last I checked, Saraunas Jasikevicius was first on Indianas +/- list, Danny Granger last. Thats all you need to know about +/-. Bottomline: Tayshaun Prince is an average scorer (14 ppg, on average shooting percentages) a trerrible rebounder (his rebounding rate is 76th out of 91 SF\'s in the league) and an above average defender (he was below average at UK, playing behind two solid big man defenders has rised his D to slightly above average)

Peja is past his prime, and Tayshaun still hasn\'t reached his yet. ohh, and it\'s 9.4 Million per year (5 years, 47 million), not 9.8 Mil.

Actually, I saw it listed as 5 years/$49M. I\'m gonna take my word on it over yours. Still, even if it were $9.4M per, thats still massively overpaying for a 4th scoring option who doesnt rebound and is only alightly above average defensively. He\'s worth the MLE, maybe slightly more. Thats it.

[quote=FreshPrince22]Wake me up when he turns the Pacers into a 60+ win team. And if this is his peak \"age wise\", then why has he been headed in the wrong direction for the last 2 seasons?</br> Playing in terrible Sacramento, where he was unhappy and had a Stephon Marbury-level selfish point guard in Mike Bibby. Hes averaged 20/7 on 46/41/91 since coming to Indiana 30 games ago. :) BTW - your earlier excuse about Tayshaun being a 4th scoring option, Peja being #1 was flawed. Tayshaun a 4th scoring option because hes an average scorer. Pejas a #1 scoring option because hes the best shooter in the leage and averaged nearly 25 a game on a 60+ win team just a few short seasons ago.</br> Peja would be the #1 option on the Pistons by the way.

Kstat
04-03-2006, 12:53 AM
Peja would be the #1 option on the Pistons by the way.

No......just no.

You're trying to make a point, but that's going overboard.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 12:58 AM
Alright KStat, tell me, what's your basis for your claim that Ray Allen is the best shooter in the league?</br></br>I backed up my claim with facts (better caree fg%, ft%, and 3%, Back-to-back 3 point shootout titles, I dont believe hes ever lost in a 3 point shoot out unlike Ray Allen)</br></br>Now what's yours?

Kaufman
04-03-2006, 01:00 AM
Naptown Seth? Is that you?

Kstat
04-03-2006, 01:03 AM
Alright KStats - tell me - what's your basis for your claim that Ray Allen is the best shooter in the league?I backed up my claim (better caree fg%, ft%, and 3%, Back-to-back 3 point shootout titles, I dont believe hes ever lost in a 3 point shoot out unlike Ray Allen)Now what's yours?

1st of all- 3-point shootouts mean very little, unless you want to admit Craig Hodges was the greatest shooter of all time. They are teaken out of the context of real basketball.

2ndly, From what I've seen, Ray allen is a better one-on-one shooter, a better shooter off a screen, a better shooter off the dribble, and a better shooter over a double-team. Ray Allen has faced double-teams in his career far more often than Allen has.

I won't judge either on clutch shooting, because frankly both have come up very short in that area. The most imprtant shot in Peja's career was a wide open three that hit the top of the backboard.

Not saying Peja's not a great shooter. I just think Ray Allen is better, from what I have seen.

If you want to keep on with the stats, Rip Hamilton's FG and 3-point shooting percentages this season blow Peja's out of the water, so you can explain to me why HE isn't the best shooter in the NBA.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 01:05 AM
BTW - Peja would be the #1 option on the Pistons. He's a better scorer than anyone they have, and thats really not even debatable to be honest.

Kstat
04-03-2006, 01:08 AM
BTW - Peja would be the #1 option on the Pistons. He's a better scorer than anyone they have, and thats really not even debatable to be honest.

Ok.

That's not even worth me addressing. Every guy on the Pistons sacrifices his scoring for team chemistry. If Peja played here he'd score 15-17ppg like most everyone else.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 01:09 AM
Well the stats say otherwise, and shooting percentages are pretty much undebtable. There's no padding shooting percentages.I stand by my claim. If Ray Allen were with the Pacers, and Peja Stojakovic weren't, Peja would be the best shooter in the league in your opinion.That's just how you are.

HulkSmash!
04-03-2006, 01:14 AM
If you want to keep on with the stats, Rip Hamilton's FG and 3-point shooting percentages this season blow Peja's out of the water, so you can explain to me why HE isn't the best shooter in the NBA.
A case could be made that Rip's been the best shooter in the entire league this year. However, his career shooting numbers leave a lot to be desired, so it's only sensible to look at this season as a fluke. If he can do it for another year or two (or 7, like Peja) then he'll start getting more recognition as a great overall shooter instead of a one-dimensional mid-range shooter.

Kstat
04-03-2006, 01:36 AM
However, his career shooting numbers leave a lot to be desired, so it's only sensible to look at this season as a fluke.

Sorry, there's no stat for "flukes," so it has no place in your argument, when is based soley onstats.

This season Rip blows Peja's percentages away. He's the better shooter RIGHT NOW. You can't argue this, because you backed yourself into a corner with your stat-obsessing. ;)

That's the problem with your logic, Seth, it always has been. You rely on stats too often.

You can either go by observations, in which case Ray Allen is the better shooter. You can go by stats, in which case Rip is the better shooter.

Either way, you have no leg to stand on.


If Ray Allen were with the Pacers, and Peja Stojakovic weren't, Peja would be the best shooter in the league in your opinion.That's just how you are.

Well, if I didn't hate the Pacers, I wouldn't be here. you know that. :D

Eindar
04-03-2006, 01:55 AM
Sorry to break up the pissing match, but here's how I see things. We're all talking about the Bulls and Raptors having enough money to sign him outright. What I haven't seen mentioned is that team out there that's a 3rd-6th seed this year, and they think they're one really good player away from winning a championship. Preferably, this team has a dearth at SF and some large expiring contracts. DW and Larry pick the team that has the most potential to implode in a year or two, and then do a sign-and-trade with Peja for the expiring contract and a couple 1st round picks.

If nothing like that pops up, and if there's not a blockbuster involving JO, Tinsley, Jackson and/or Peja, then you sign him to whatever the market value is, and try to get something for him later in the season. What you don't do is let him walk for nothing.

FreshPrince22
04-03-2006, 02:48 AM
HulkSmash = Troll. Leave him alone to argue with himself, kstat. It's not even worth it.

Skidoo
04-03-2006, 04:19 PM
Lady, your obsession with the Peja is becoming clinical case. You really need help. Your latest “observation” is so untrue, as everything else you are posting here.

"2004: Peja DIDN'T lead our team; he was PART of a cohesive unit. Peja doesn't want to lead; he doesn't know how to lead.”

LOL, Garnett, Pierce and Tracy also… I can only imagine what would happened if he really wanted to lead…

Points NBA 2004
1. Kevin Garnett 1987
2. Peja Stojakovic 1964
3. Tracy McGrady 1878
4. Paul Pierce 1836
5. Michael Redd 1776

Points Per Game NBA 2004
1. Tracy McGrady 28.0
2. Peja Stojakovic 24.2
3. Kevin Garnett 24.2
4. Kobe Bryant 24.0
5. Paul Pierce 23.0


Field Goals 2004-NBA
1. Kevin Garnett 804
2. Peja Stojakovic 665
3. Zach Randolph 663
4. Tracy McGrady 653
5. Michael Redd 633

Free Throw % 2004-NBA-.927-1
1. Peja Stojakovic .927
2. Steve Nash .916
3. Allan Houston .913
4. Ray Allen .904
5. Reggie Miller .885


3-Pt Field Goals 2004-NBA
1. Peja Stojakovic 240
2. Baron Davis 187
3. Eddie Jones 177
4. Tracy McGrady 174
5. Jamal Crawford 165


True Shooting % NBA 2004
1. Brent Barry .668
2. Brian Cardinal .626
3. Peja Stojakovic .624
4. James Posey .614
5. Fred Hoiberg .611

Player Wins NBA 2004
1. Kevin Garnett 17.3
2. Tim Duncan 12.9
3. Andrei Kirilenko 12.2
4. Peja Stojakovic 11.8
5. Ben Wallace 11.3


Win Shares NBA 2004
1. Kevin Garnett 48
2. Peja Stojakovic 42
3. Sam Cassell 36
4. Kobe Bryant 35
5. Tim Duncan 33


Minutes Played 2004 NBA
1. Joe Johnson 3331
2. Peja Stojakovic 3264
3. Stephon Marbury 3254
4. Kevin Garnett 3231
5. Cuttino Mobley 3229


Hope this will help to get a clear picture.

Kaufman
04-03-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm calling shinnanagins on hulksmash.

QUOTE (HULKSMASH)
"I agree with him really. The fans here are as bi-polar as the Pacers team itself. As a matter of fact, the fans here remind me a lot of this Pacers team. So fickle, a different problem every night."

This is Naptown Seth.
Joined less than two weeks ago and has called out multiple people on the board. I think someone should do a background check...

SoupIsGood
04-03-2006, 04:37 PM
Naptown Seth? Is that you?

Ooh! I called this weeks ago.

btowncolt
04-03-2006, 04:39 PM
I'm calling shinnanagins on hulksmash.

QUOTE (HULKSMASH)
"I agree with him really. The fans here are as bi-polar as the Pacers team itself. As a matter of fact, the fans here remind me a lot of this Pacers team. So fickle, a different problem every night."

This is Naptown Seth.
Joined less than two weeks ago and has called out multiple people on the board. I think someone should do a background check...

Shenanigans has been called! HULKSMASH, do you accept?!!?!?

FrenchConnection
04-03-2006, 05:16 PM
Lets change the subject here. Do you know how much it sucks to be talking about next year two weeks before the playoffs start. It was not supposed to be this way this year.

I was really hoping that we would keep Peja, but after seeing this team play for the past few weeks, BLOW IT UP! Hopefully we can retool using Peja and Tins as trade bait, but if not we are in for a long rebuilding process. I am now fully off of the sunshine bandwagon and am standing on the ledge ready to plunge into the abyss. BTW, I really feel as if I wasted an entire lifetime needlessly on there during the Ron trade period, and it was all for naught it turns out.

Kaufman
04-04-2006, 01:04 AM
Shenanigans has been called! HULKSMASH, do you accept?!!?!?

Are you sure on your spelling there btown? Shenanigans?

Kaufman
04-04-2006, 08:07 AM
Ooh! I called this weeks ago.

Ooh! Prove it!

MagicRat
04-04-2006, 09:49 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shenanigan

1 entry found for shenanigans.
she&#183;nan&#183;i&#183;gan n. Informal

A deceitful trick; an underhanded act.
Remarks intended to deceive; deceit. Often used in the plural.

A playful or mischievous act; a prank.
Mischief; prankishness. Often used in the plural.

------------------------------------
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=shinnanagins

No entry found for shinnanagins.

Did you mean shenanigans?