PDA

View Full Version : What would you do? (Granger Related)



Evan_The_Dude
03-30-2006, 11:43 PM
"I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.

I never thought about it like that before, but given how this season has gone, would it be too risky to allow Granger to be our starting 4 next season? I actually like the idea. I mean, I think he's already a better rebounder than J.O., a better 1 on 1 defender, and not a half bad shot blocker.

This would allow us to put JO, Tinsley, and or Jackson on the trade block to improve our back court.

I think this would be a great direction to go in, not to mention we could keep Peja and play him at his natural position [assuming he wants to stay]. If Bird is really wanting a Euro-ball style, I think this may be the way to go.

[NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

What are your thoughts?

Ragnar
03-30-2006, 11:54 PM
I am a huge Jamaal Tinsley fan as everyone knows. Right now I want them to trade everyone but Jeff, Danny and maybe well no one that is just keep Jeff and Danny.

I think the last two years have ruined the chemistry or what little there was. Jeff does not seem to have been affected and Danny was not here last year. Everyone else seems to have been to some extent or another.

Aw Heck
03-30-2006, 11:56 PM
No, I think Danny's a natural 3. He can play the 4 if he needs to, but his best spot is the 3. Kinda like JO is natural 4, but can play the 5. If you really want to have Danny start, you'll have to trade Peja.

Sign-and-trading Peja this offseason could net a backup 3 and help at another position.

Personally, I'm all for getting a whole new starting backcourt.

pizza guy
03-30-2006, 11:57 PM
No, I think Danny's a natural 3. He can play the 4 if he needs to, but his best spot is the 3. Kinda like JO is natural 4, but can play the 5. If you really want to have Danny start, you'll have to trade Peja.

Sign-and-trading Peja this offseason could net a backup 3 and help at another position.

Personally, I'm all for getting a whole new starting backcourt.

I agree 100%

Whether or not JO, Tins, and SJax should be traded has nothing to do with this. The only thing that matter in this discussion is that Granger is a 3, not a 4. Sure, he has the ability to fill in there occasionaly, but, to start? He's a great player, and I'm extremely excited to watch him develope; so let's not try to force him out of his position and turn him into a player he isn't (like JO playing the 5 spot -- it's not good). Danny belongs at the SF, which causes a problem because so does Peja. There are two starting players in one position, but I REALLY don't like the idea of changing Danny's position.

CableKC
03-31-2006, 12:05 AM
[NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]
What are your thoughts?
I think that SJax would be pleased as pie to be made the 6th man in favor of starting a rookie/sophmore player. :zip:

Unclebuck
03-31-2006, 12:22 AM
DG is going to be really good, but the coaches were furious at him tonight for his many mental defensive lapses. He did not get back about 4 times and gave up layups/dunks, and within the halfcourt team defense he was overcommiting to help on Nash and leaving his man open. Rick was really frustrated and had to talk with DG several times as did K.O.

pizza guy
03-31-2006, 12:36 AM
The whole team stunk on D tonight, so, that doesn't count for much. Granger, OVERALL (UB, that's the whole season) has been impressive and I can't wait to watch him develop as a Pacer.

Unclebuck
03-31-2006, 12:38 AM
The whole team stunk on D tonight, so, that doesn't count for much. Granger, OVERALL (UB, that's the whole season) has been impressive and I can't wait to watch him develop as a Pacer.



I don't disagree with you, but I thought I would add a little insight into what I saw, stuff that would not have been on TV.

JBones19
03-31-2006, 01:23 AM
Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.

Mourning
03-31-2006, 01:29 AM
Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.

Funny! That was exactly what I was thinking and what I am afraid of too.

Evan_The_Dude
03-31-2006, 04:15 AM
Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.

:laugh: I thought I'd leave it to someone else to bring out that little tidbit...

Bball
03-31-2006, 04:22 AM
"I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.

I never thought about it like that before, but given how this season has gone, would it be too risky to allow Granger to be our starting 4 next season? I actually like the idea. I mean, I think he's already a better rebounder than J.O., a better 1 on 1 defender, and not a half bad shot blocker.

This would allow us to put JO, Tinsley, and or Jackson on the trade block to improve our back court.

I think this would be a great direction to go in, not to mention we could keep Peja and play him at his natural position [assuming he wants to stay]. If Bird is really wanting a Euro-ball style, I think this may be the way to go.

[NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

What are your thoughts?


JO, Tinsley and Jackson gone? Sign me up... We can worry about whether your idea of using Granger at the PF spot has any merit later.

-Bball

HulkSmash!
03-31-2006, 05:05 AM
"I think this guy has a great future in this league. He's going to be more of a 4 that can step out and hit the jumper" - TNT Broadcast team.
Actually you've got this wrong. He said Granger was a "3", who could step up when needed and defend the jump shooting "4's" of the league.

D-BONE
03-31-2006, 07:51 AM
Keep Granger. Keep Foster.

Move anybody else that gets us speed and more consistent outside shooting in the backcourt. We desperately need, IMO, a starting calibur PG and a versatile, consistent 2 (read: shooter/slasher). We just don't get enough scoring out of our Gs.

Maybe a solid backup interior rebounder defender to play 5 and/or 4.

Where is OWL? OWL has hit one thing on the head-more speed/athleticism please!!

D-BONE
03-31-2006, 07:56 AM
[NOTE: I still don't want to trade Jack. Just let him be the 6th man]

What are your thoughts?

In theory sounds great. Could back up two positions 2/3.

In practice, would he be able to handle the "demotion"? Plus, what about his PR problem with the wrath of the fans? Can both sides reconcile? Could be a lot to ask.

Questions that jumps to mind: Would Jack fit in better (w/ less volatility/tension) with different teammates? A different system? A different coach?

#31
03-31-2006, 08:54 AM
Danny is a very good allround player, yes he is used to play the 3, but its wrong to say that he fits in best there.. basketball doesnt work that way. You are young, 68" and your style is allround = SG-SF-PF. He can play all 3 positions with equal success because of his allround skills, sorry to say.

Its only up to the coach what he wants. But he MUST have Peja & Granger in there, he must find a way... If only SJAX could be a backup instead? (he is NOT better than Granger).

Moving Danny to 4 is just impossible because of JO? But a very good idea if only Sarunas was a starter and they learned to play that way, they would be almost exactly like Phoenix (a la European basketball) offensively, 1 great leader/playmaker, everybody else can shoot & pass, much ball movement, much movement overall, pick & rolls.

But still it WONT happen, because this is NBA, not Europe. In Europe the Coach setups his team to WIN after teamplay, no matter what, they dont care if they have players like JO / SJAX that MUST have their minutes and starting spot all the time and give them ISO plays. That is very good, but its NOT consistant and will not guarantee you a win everyday.

Like many of my coaches said to me, Basketball is the most succesfull when you are playing the way its meant to be played! With other words = NO SUPERSTARS = NO ISOs = NO BALLHOGING.. Something like this:

PG = A point guard that always gets the ball and runs the offense always thru his hands and thinks Pass first, who drives to the basket JUST to open up his teammates.
(1.SARUNAS, 2.TINSLEY)

SG = Literally a "Shooting" Guard who have a very good allround game, can pass, usually the highest scorer in the team and he is usually PGs highest priority on offense because of his high shooting accuracy.
(1.DANNY 2. SJAX - good backup only)

SF = A taller "SG", That can rebound and is a very good spot up shooter, if its a very good shooter / player then it will not be a Conflict between him and the SG.
(1. PEJA 2. GRANGER - extremly good backup if the Coach chooses not to go with him at SG)

PF = Literally a "POWER" Forward, He is big, Tall, leaves the shooting part to the rest of his teammates, a HUSTLER, a BEAST, a WARRIOR, that goes efter EVERY loose ball and sacrifices his body non-stop.
(1. JO (if he would stop the 1on1 shake-n-bake "hey look at me! im a 7 foot tall PointGuard!" and long distance shooting). 2. JEFF FOSTER)

C = Exactly like PF but less athleticism and more strength and Tallness, a big guy that is there just for ONE purpose. To do the things the shorter guys cant do... get up hiigh up under the basket fastest and geting exploited in different ways. (1. DAVID HARRISON)

As you can see? We have what it takes to be a succesfull team, Larry Bird has seen it... the question is? Can RICK see it?

marcd
03-31-2006, 09:20 AM
Great- maybe the TPTB can tell Danny to gain 20lbs of muscle in the off-season so he can play the 4 and he can rely on the fade-away jumper for the rest of his career and get a buncha nagging injuries because his frame can handle the extra 20lbs run on sentence.


Sounds great typed out, but need I remind you that gaining weight didn't really work for JO or Bender. Both became far more injury prone after gaining the weight their frames couldn't handle. Bender had more to do with is bad knees, but O'Neal has everything to do with his weight gain.

Not a good idea IMHO.

MarcD

owl
03-31-2006, 09:35 AM
I think he was being sarcastic. Look how well the extra weight has helped
JO. It hasn't.


owl

owl
03-31-2006, 09:54 AM
This team is sorely lacking in speed and mobility and in the ability to shoot.
This team is a poor shooting team. Peja is the Pacers only shooter of note.
Granger could turn into one. But the guards are lacking in so many ways.
I am also of the belief that having your PF as your number one option
is a disaster. When was the last team to win a title with a dominant
pf as your number one option? Elvin Hayes????? And was he even the
number one option on those Bullet teams????
Bottom line is that the makeup of this team has to change.


owl

Unclebuck
03-31-2006, 10:01 AM
This team is sorely lacking in speed and mobility and in the ability to shoot.
This team is a poor shooting team. Peja is the Pacers only shooter of note.
Granger could turn into one. But the guards are lacking in so many ways.
I am also of the belief that having your PF as your number one option
is a disaster. When was the last team to win a title with a dominant
pf as your number one option? Elvin Hayes????? And was he even the
number one option on those Bullet teams????
Bottom line is that the makeup of this team has to change.


owl


Tim Duncan. Some will say that he is a center, well then if he is then so is J.O.

I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.

beast23
03-31-2006, 12:12 PM
I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.
This is an absolute must. And I agree that Tinsley, Jackson AND O'Neal must go.

I've been on the fence about Jermaine. But Kravitz article this morning reminded me of things that I've actually said. He's an imposter, he is NOT a leader. And with him still on the team and actually anointed as the leader, he will always try to be the leader, regardless of who else is acquired to fill that role.

Jackson? You guys want a PG that can point? I want a freakin' SG that can actually shoot consistently.

Tinsley? He's not even worth my time to give all the reasons.

Probably reserved for a thread of my own will be an apology to Saras' fans. I'll never admit that he could be a savior if only given an opportunity to play. But, whether he is a leader or not I won't get into. What he is is passionate. And right now, this team needs every player with a beating heart that it can muster.

PASSION. I think that one word sums up what this team is not. We have Danny, Foster, Saras and Peja. They are passionate. Freddy, AJ and Harrison are also passionate, although they can sometimes misdirect that passion, especially David.

One player that I'd like to see the Pacers acquire would be Al Harrington. Never thought I'd say that. But after playing Atlanta, I've come to realzie something. We miss his passion and how he was capable of firing up every other player on the floor to give a better effort. Al could help bring leadership back to this team.

Getting back to Buck's comments.

We have to have a dominant guard. More importantly, I think we have to have a dominant POINT GUARD. I know you're never supposed to trade a dominant big for a guard. But right now, I'd trade Jermaine to get my hands on a truly dominant PG... one with handles that can defend, pass and hit an open shot.

If we can somehow get this done, I'd then start Harrison/Foster at C, Al at PF, Danny at SF, Peja at SG and the new PG.

That is a passionate lineup. You would have Al who could swing to SF and Danny who could swing to PF or SG. Peja could obviously play SF as well. Four good defenders in the lineup could help cover any problems that Peja (or Danny) encounters defending at SG. You would also have 4 players capable of shooting anywhere on the floor.

bmac
03-31-2006, 12:44 PM
I think that having Granger add a bunch of muscle would be a mistake. If muscle made the ball player then Jake Voskhul would be an all-star center. I would much rather have a player with fast-twitch reactions (young Dale Davis, Big Ben) than some beefed up (slower) muscle bound player.

I'm no NBA caliber player, but I know from my own experience in the weight room that big muscles don't always translate well to the court.

Danny is great the way he is; sleek, strong and smart. I look forward to him improving in the coming years. Maybe he can be our next Reggie.

Unclebuck
03-31-2006, 12:57 PM
Granger better not add a bunch of muscle, yes he needs to get stronger, but bodies are made to carry a certain amount of weight and his will always be a little slight.

I have no problem trading J.O. But I want quality back. Don't trade him for a package of two or three role players - that won't help the team any. if you don't believe me watch the Bulls. They play so hgard, are so well coached, they have players who play the right way, but they are talent poor. You still need talent.

Roy Munson
03-31-2006, 01:17 PM
This is an absolute must. And I agree that Tinsley, Jackson AND O'Neal must go.


PASSION. I think that one word sums up what this team is not. We have Danny, Foster, Saras and Peja. They are passionate. Freddy, AJ and Harrison are also passionate, although they can sometimes misdirect that passion, especially David.



Agree. Passion and ENERGY are what the Pacers are missing right now. I can't think of any NBA championship caliber team that did not play with energy, especially on defense.

For all the ugliness that the Pacers are showing on offense, it is pitiful defense that is causing them to lose games. How many times did the Suns hit WIDE OPEN shots last night? The Pacers looked like a seventh-grade team playing help defense and leaving shooters open on the perimeter. They need to start physically dominating their opponents defensively, the way they did two seasons ago.

IMO, Jackson and Tinsley are not playing with defensive energy. When JO is on the floor I haven't really seen it from him either. The Pacers scored enough to win the game last night. They just didn't lock Phoenix down, which is what they have to start doing if they want to be competitive.

owl
03-31-2006, 01:23 PM
I've been saying for about 6 years now that the Pacers need a dominant offensive player at one of the guard positions.


That Miller kid worked pretty well for a lot of years. Even with Reggie's
limitations it is amazing how he carried the franchise for 18 years.
Trading JO is going to be very difficult and in a trade I suppose you
could get a young player and a draft pick and someone for cap filler.
How about JO to LA? I would want a high draft pick out of any trade for JO.
This summer should be very interesting. I would love to get Tyrus Thomas
out of a trade. I am not sold on Harrison. I would prefer someone else
long term there also. I want mentally strong players with some talent.



owl

beast23
03-31-2006, 02:12 PM
Owl,

I agree that we may not get as much for Jermaine right now as we would have 1 to 1-1/2 years ago.

That is really why I would suggest breaking that cardinal rule that you don't trade a dominant big for a guard.

I think we can get more value out of Jermaine if we are willing to trade him for a guard. But I also believe that a draft pick and a front-court backup could be gained in the trade.

It is definitely going to be an active summer. And if by some chance it isn't, I believe that the Pacers will seriously suffer in attendance.

#31
03-31-2006, 02:49 PM
Granger better not add a bunch of muscle, yes he needs to get stronger, but bodies are made to carry a certain amount of weight and his will always be a little slight.

I have no problem trading J.O. But I want quality back. Don't trade him for a package of two or three role players - that won't help the team any. if you don't believe me watch the Bulls. They play so hgard, are so well coached, they have players who play the right way, but they are talent poor. You still need talent.

Fully agree!

Roy Munson
03-31-2006, 02:54 PM
That is really why I would suggest breaking that cardinal rule that you don't trade a dominant big for a guard.



Not sure this cardinal rule applies here, since the Pacers don't have a dominant big. What they have is a big who thinks he's dominant, and talks like he's dominant, but doesn't play that way.

rexnom
03-31-2006, 02:59 PM
Not sure this cardinal rule applies here, since the Pacers don't have a dominant big. What they have is a big who thinks he's dominant, and talks like he's dominant, but doesn't play that way.

Key being: most think he is dominant. I've read several times that the feeling around the league is that JO's trade value is fairly high...still.

FrenchConnection
03-31-2006, 04:46 PM
That Miller kid worked pretty well for a lot of years. Even with Reggie's
limitations it is amazing how he carried the franchise for 18 years.
Trading JO is going to be very difficult and in a trade I suppose you
could get a young player and a draft pick and someone for cap filler.
How about JO to LA? I would want a high draft pick out of any trade for JO.
This summer should be very interesting. I would love to get Tyrus Thomas
out of a trade. I am not sold on Harrison. I would prefer someone else
long term there also. I want mentally strong players with some talent.



owl

The Lakers do not own their draft pick, the Celtics do because of a series of trades, but I dig the idea. How about Toronto or Atlanta?

SoupIsGood
03-31-2006, 05:48 PM
I don't really want JO traded, but if he ever were, a frontcourt of Granger/Foster/Harrison would not be bad at all (as long as Harrison and Granger continue to develop), especially if we had a good backcourt to go with it.

D-BONE
03-31-2006, 08:06 PM
I don't really want JO traded, but if he ever were, a frontcourt of Granger/Foster/Harrison would not be bad at all (as long as Harrison and Granger continue to develop), especially if we had a good backcourt to go with it.

Soup's ON!

DH is still kinda iffy, but at least we know he can offer some post O.

Actually, if JO were to be traded along with several other characters from this cast, there's no reason we might not be able to get another decent big contributor to help out in addition to a backcourt upgrade or two. It's not beyond the realm of possibility.

There's enough guys I'd be happy to ship out that it creates myriad permutations for assembling a future roster.

larry
03-31-2006, 08:37 PM
You won't get a high draft choice from L.A. They are good now & improving. If they had J.O. they would be the best team in the league hands down. The Spurs, Pistons, & Heat all have nice windows, but they are closing. L.A. doesn't have the window open far enough yet, but it's going up as fast as anybody's. The Lakers & the Cavs are 2 teams that will keep improving next year & possibaly beyond.

larry
03-31-2006, 08:49 PM
You can't just pull of some type of dream deal. However, this team is overloaded w/ forwards & centers. This team needs help w/ the 2 guard positions. That is why we are so slow. Also, I know we have 4 points. However, these quarters aren't adding up into a dollar. I love Jax for his spirit & toughness. He is too streaky to be a starting SG. At least for a tittle contender. He would be better than Fred as a back up imo. If you want a realistic trade look to a team in our shoes. Just like the Kings were.

larry
03-31-2006, 08:50 PM
Hmmm...
The Sonics?

Evan_The_Dude
04-01-2006, 12:39 AM
Funny thing is the only player I can think of is Ray Allen too...

However, just to throw it out there would you trade JO for Yao (yes, I know others would be involved too).

A Yao, Foster, Granger front line would be very much like our old Smits, Davis, McKey front line. Not that I want that to happen, just a thought. I certainly wouldn't be mad...

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 02:25 AM
Keep Jermain O'Neal - All this talk of trading Jermaine O'Neal is laughable. All the blame for the teams mediocre season being blamed on Jermaine O'Neal is equally laughable. The facts are, Jermaine O'Neal is one of the 5 best big men in the entire world. He has the complete package; offense, defense, and rebounding. And he plays with heart and has been loyal to us since coming here. His only flaws from my viewpoint are, he needs to stay healthy, if that means dropping a little muscle mass and playing at a more comfortable weight then so be it. And he needs to keep his cool a little more often.

Keep Jamaal Tinsley - Yes, I know most people will disagree with this. But two things you must understand, (1) Tinsley's value now is as low as it's ever been, and as low as it will likely ever be. Have you ever heard of the buy low/sell high philosophy in the stock market? Well that same rule which applies to stocks and bonds also applies to basketball players. (2) Jamaal Tinsley, when he's healthy and in relatively good shape, is an impact player for our team, capable of outplaying any point guard in the league on any given night. That's something that will never be able to be said for Anthony Johnson or Sarunas Jasikevicius.

Peja Must Not Be Allowed To Walk - Bottom line: You cannot allow a player of Peja's caliber to leave without proper compensation. He needs to be back in a Pacers uniform next season. And although most of you don't understand this, in this day and age, a player of Peja's skill level commands max or near-max level contract. I expect Peja to be resigned with Indiana for a contract around 6 years/$72,000,000.

Trade Peja Stojakovic For A Star Shooting Guard - This is a continuation of the above. Peja's a great player, but with Danny Granger being such a huge part of the teams future, there's really no room for Peja in the long run. What there is room for, however, is a shooting guard who can score 20+ points per night, on a consistent basis! And believe me, that's the type of player a resigned Peja Stojakovic would command. A Corey Maggette/Jason Richardson/Joe Johnson caliber player. This is where a nice little playoff run for the Pacers is critical. The better the team plays, the better Peja plays, the higher his value goes. When the Pacers aquired Peja, he was having his worst season in years and was a potential free agent at seasons ends. This lowered his trade value substantially. Since joining the Pacers, his play his picked up considerably, and as long as he can be resigned long-term to a reasonable contract (Up to $12M per is reasonable for a player of Peja's abilities) his value will continue to rise. Remember the "buy low/sell high" strategy? Well thats what the Pacers have done with Peja. So once you've signed Peja to his contract, you look to move him for a younger star shooting guard, which is what this team needs for the present and most importantly the future.

Make Stephen Jackson Our 6th Man - I love Stephen Jackson, although I know most of you don't. Sure he's a hot head, but he has passion and a desire to win, something not everybody has. Stephen Jackson as our 6th man would mean Stephen Jacksons the #1 option of the 2nd unit. We've all noted how much better Jackson seems to play when he's forced to be the #1 option. Jackson would be great off the bench getting 30 minutes a game backing up both the SG and SF positions. He would be as good as any 6th man in the league.

Play David Harrison! - This is crucial. I love Jeff Foster, he's the ultimate role player, but he's best suited as an energy boost off the bench as opposed to a starting center. David Harrison, on the other hand, has top-5 center written all over him. Perfect size (7' 280 lb.), great athleticism, great skills, plays to his strengths for the most part etc. Take a look at the ballyhooed Chris Kaman for the Clippers. What does he have that Hulk doesn't? A terrible hairstyle, that's it. Similar size, same age, same skill set. The only difference is, Mike Dunleavy has allowed Kaman to be the fulltime starter, something Rick wont do with Harrison.

The Draft - Many of you have mentioned a big man, but with O'Neal, Granger, Harrison, and Hulk all under contract, not to mention Lorbek over in Europe, I think Pacers decline on a big in the first round. Instead I believe they'll go with a guard, and looking at the potential draft class and going by my earlier move of trading Peja for a starting shooting guard, I'm leaning towards point guard. Randy Foye, Rajon Rondo, Marcus Williams, Daniel Gibson, and Dee Brown are all possibilities and most will be available from where Indiana will be picking. Out of the bunch, I think Marcus Williams has the most upside. He's been described as a young Mark Jackson and his play with UConn has been very clutch. Draft one of these guys (preferably Williams :) ), and groom his as our potential full-time starer, barring Tinsley doesn't finally stay healthy for more than 2 weeks at a time.
By the way, Rudy Fernandez looks to be leaning more towards being an NBA 2-guard, so I didn't mention him although with Bird's alleged love for the Euro game, he's still a definite possibility.

Ladies And Gentleman....Your 2006-2007 Indiana Pacers!
Starters: Jamaal Tinsley...Corey Maggette-level 2-guard...Danny Granger...Jermaine O'Neal...David Harrison

Bench: Stephen Jackson...Jeff Foster...Anthony Johnson...Austin Croshere...Saraunas Jasikevicius...Marcus Williams/Rajon Rondo/Randy Foye/Daniel Gibson/Rudy Fernandez

Roy Munson
04-01-2006, 03:11 AM
The facts are, Jermaine O'Neal is one of the 5 best big men in the entire world. He has the complete package; offense, defense, and rebounding.


Now THAT is laughable. That is pure homerism. That is ridiculous.

HulkSmash!
04-01-2006, 03:22 AM
Now THAT is laughable. That is pure homerism. That is ridiculous.
Care to elaborate?

A guy capable of 20-25 points per game, 9-12 rebounds per game, and 2-3 blocks per game is a top-5 big man.

Further proof, check the Pacers record with Jermaine and without since he's been here.

If you don't have a solid case to backup your claim, and are only one of the fickle Jermaine haters, then please stop wasting mine and everyone elses time.

D-BONE
04-01-2006, 09:01 AM
[QUOTE=HulkSmash!]Keep Jermain O'Neal - The facts are, Jermaine O'Neal is one of the 5 best big men in the entire world. [QUOTE=HulkSmash!]

Say what??

Let's see. Shaq, Duncan, Yao, Garnett, Brand.

And that's just what immediately came to mind. No brainstorming involved.

MAYBE you could get buy saying top ten on a good day, but with the injury history factored in then it gets really dicey.

Very similar to the JT top ten PG debate. If these guys are really top 10 and top 5, how come they and their team don't play better? If you say the injuries, then how can they be so highly regarded?

owl
04-01-2006, 12:15 PM
Whether or not JO is traded will be determined by if a total house cleaning is
desired and what is available in trade. I could live with a good house
cleaning if some good pieces are brought in(see back court).

Some good role players later in the draft and second round would
be Terrell Everett(great guard skills), Steve Novak(great shooter)
and Justin Williams(great shot blocker and rebounder). If the Pacer
pf did that and scored a little that would be fine with me.
The Pacers need one major pressure point on offense that teams have
to respect. That should come from the sf or sg or both if possible.
If JO could net Tyrus Thomas I would do it.

owl

Roy Munson
04-01-2006, 12:30 PM
Care to elaborate?

A guy capable of 20-25 points per game, 9-12 rebounds per game, and 2-3 blocks per game is a top-5 big man.



Many guys are CAPABLE. Not so many actually produce. JO's reputation seems to be built around what he COULD do instead of what he does.

And even when he is filling up the stat sheet, he DOES NOT make his teammates better. If you want to point to the win-loss record since JO has been in Indiana, take out all the games Ron Artest played in. Then see if JO makes the Pacers better or not. Artest had a heck of a lot more to do with all those wins that JO did.