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View Full Version : Let's start early with this summer question this season



Mourning
03-30-2006, 01:28 PM
In the Q.O.D.-thread for today, d.d. 29 march 2006, Jose made a comment that I found interesting. He talked about letting the rookies play as much as possible in the play-offs if we are pretty much assured of not advancing to the next round. I aggree with that.

Offcourse, it's difficult to assess exactly when your team has about 0% chance left to win the series and still have significant minutes for the rookies to play.


This time I think missing the playoffs would be a better "learning experience" for some of the vets. such as ........

wait a sec!

I was gonna say Jackson, Tinsley & O'Neal, but I think at least 2 of them could be gone before next season so why would it matter if they learned anything by setting out the playoffs?

I say, make the playoffs & play Granger & Harrison as much as possible.

This thread was started for another reason though and it's in this quote below:


The changes that Bball hopes for will be happening. As a matter of fact I think one has already been arranged, but that is for another thread. Making or missing the playoffs will not alter what will happen in the off season. TPTB see the flaws in the team as well as its individual players. There will be changes reguardless of what date or last game is.

Bball talked about changes coming this summer, because the team as presently constructed is not functioning/working.

My question is IF there's already something in place NOW then what is it?

You asked for it, Jose ;) got your own thread about it now :D :D :D.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Aw Heck
03-30-2006, 01:53 PM
I don't know if The Pacers have a definite plan, but they will have a lot of flexibility this summer to make some changes.

They can sign-and-trade Peja or keep him if they want to. Tinsley's BYC status expires this summer, making him much easier to trade. Pollard comes off the books. Croshere and Bender will have only one season left on their contracts, which makes for good trading pieces for a team looking to cut salary or the Pacers can let them expire and get some more cap space after next season in the process. We'll have another draft pick coming in.

They definitely need to fix the PG situation. That has to be fixed this offseason. I think AJ is safe. He's a solid backup and can start if there's an injury. So I expect Tinsley or Saras to be gone.

And for some reason I get the feeling Fred isn't going to be re-signed. I just don't think he's worth much more money than he is now.

I will say this though. If the Pacers' offseason only consists of re-signing Peja and Fred, and then drafting a big man to replace Pollard, I will lose a lot of faith in Larry and Donnie. Because there needs to be some big changes.

RWB
03-30-2006, 02:44 PM
My guess is AJ is promoted to our starting PG with Saras as his backup. Fred will bring a 2nd rounder after a sign and trade (ala JJ) and Bird Walsh will do their best to do a two for one deal involving JAck and Tins.

Peja will probably be paid well. Pollard will be offered something in the 3mil range or set free. Croshere will remain with the team because his contract will finally make sense, since it's expiring in a year.

Carlisle will finish out one more year and move into the front office. Walsh will finally retire and we'll watch LB crash and burn after that.

Gyron
03-30-2006, 02:48 PM
You really think Carlise will move into the front office instead of taking a new coaching position somewhere else?

I mean he's spoken highly of in a lot of places. Surely he would land a high paying new coaching gig right?

Fool
03-30-2006, 02:55 PM
Has Carlisle ever been spoken of as a good talent evaluator? Guys only been coach for like 5 years or so.

RWB
03-30-2006, 02:55 PM
Hey G, yes on Carlisle. Something you and I can relate to.....The Wife Factor seems too have a big influence on decisions.

RWB
03-30-2006, 02:58 PM
Has Carlisle ever been spoken of as a good talent evaluator? Guys only been coach for like 5 years or so.

Not sure on talent evaluation, but let's face it the man is an organizer. Doesn't he have the reputation for micro-managment?

Gyron
03-30-2006, 03:02 PM
Hey G, yes on Carlisle. Something you and I can relate to.....The Wife Factor seems too have a big influence on decisions.

All too true RWB...:laugh:

Raskolnikov
03-30-2006, 03:13 PM
My question is IF there's already something in place NOW then what is it?

I was wondering the exact same thing when I read that. Of course, that's probably what he wanted us to do. :plot:

Come on, Jose, tell us more, tell us more....

Jose Slaughter
03-30-2006, 04:26 PM
I'm very short on time but I've mentioned before that I think Bird already has a new coach lined up. I think he has expressed to RC that he wants to reshape the team & that he wants to gather the talent to play a certain style. I think Carlisle has agreed to step down after the season but the announcment won't be until about a week or two after our final game.

If this is the case, looks for a major shake up in the roster.

If Carlisle stays on there will still be some movement, just not on as large a scale.

Eindar
03-30-2006, 04:45 PM
I think major moves are neccessary this summer, and the only guy I don't want traded is Granger. If there are other guys who stick around, that's fine, but I don't feel any emotional attachment to them. Obviously, some are going to be more resistant than others to change on the team. I'm in the camp where I wouldn't mind us blowing up the entire roster, trading for draft picks and young guys, and understanding we're going to be in the lottery for a couple of years until our talent matures. Others might not be that willing to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. :)

No matter what we do, this should be Carlisle's last season. After watching the Atlanta game, I'm now convinced he's lost this team. During year one, guys were making good decisions and playing with a definite will to win. We won 61 games. Last year, we had problems, and while the play was a little sloppy, we did very well, and still played with a will to win. This season, with or without Ron Artest, this team just seems to be going through the motions, which is why we've been losing to bad teams. They focus against "good" teams, but mail it in against bad teams, until there's about 5 minutes left to play, then they realize that they're about to lose to the Hawks, and kick it into high gear to make a game of it. Also, whereas we used to win close games, now we are almost a lock to lose a close game. To me, those are signs of a coach who is no longer getting through to his players. I don't know if that's Ricks' fault, it could just be that the guys are so shellshocked from having to deal with two catastrophic seasons in a row and now they are just numb, but either way, Rick needs to go so we can breathe new life into this team. Especially if we blow up the team, because I'll vomit if I see him playing Bo Outlaw or Darrell Armstrong or some other 15 year career backup over our 1st rounders.

I guess my last point is that you don't do trades for the sake of trades, but this is a special circumstance where you need to do trades just to snap people out of the melange they're currently mired in.

Seed
03-30-2006, 05:30 PM
The question we are all dealing with is:
Is the current roster fundamentally flawed, or is it a potential for championship, after some adjustments are made?

I want to say a couple of things, but first I'd like to take a side: I think that fundamentally, this roster can be a champion. Some changes must occur for it to happen.

The main problems IMHO are:
1. Bad atmosphere created by these two last years. This plagues the whole system.
2. Just too many players with bad decision making.
3. Injuries that disrupt the lineup.
4. Lack of mature leadership on and off court.

Now, I'm trying to think of changes that would eliminate most of the problems and bring a new direction without braking all up. The best I can think of are:

Number one:
Changes in the PG spot. I would trade JT. The PG spot is just too important to take constant risks on it. I think I would also trade Sarunas. Not because he is not a fit for a back-up, but rather beacuse it seems he just couldn't find his place with the other players. Maybe it's just my impression, but that's how I see it, and chemistry is an important factor.
Trading Sarunas would require adding another long distance shooter, as the Pacers can not settle for just one threat (Peja).

Number two:
Replacing the Coach. A new coach brings new atmosphere, and this is what the team needs most. This must be an experienced coach, that can provide the players with a secure and authoritive environment they seem to lack.

Number three:
This is a question mark. I'm not sure about trading S-Jax. If he can get used to the idea he's the 3rd-4th offensive option (after JO, Peja and on the same level as the PG) then I would keep him. He is a more complete player than most seem to think. He can contribute in ball handling, assists, rebounds and defense. He also has guts. I don't know if he'd agree to this so-called 'reduced' role. If he convinced me he would, then I'd keep him. We can keep Fred as an excellent alternative.

All in all, I'd like to say to all those in favor of braking the roster down: these guys deserve one year without injuries and Ron Artests before you judge them. Change PG and Coach, and you'll have a new team in your hand. I truely believe so.

pizza guy
03-31-2006, 12:51 AM
IMO, you've just nailed it. JTins, SJax, and RC need changed. The rest will work, but those three are not going to fit.

Seed
03-31-2006, 04:31 AM
IMO, you've just nailed it. JTins, SJax, and RC need changed. The rest will work, but those three are not going to fit.
10x. It's been the longest post I made so far... that was quite an effort to write it.

Bball
03-31-2006, 04:53 AM
How many players do we send away because they just don't work with JO?

As far as trading Sarunas because he 'doesn't find his place with the other players'....
If we have players having trouble playing with Sarunas then it isn't Sarunas with the problem. We need more players with a will to win and unselfish play. We don't need to be trading the ones we have away just to make some egotistical players feel a little more secure in their role. (if this is what you meant).

You guys should be glad that I'm not the coach because I'd be benching Tinsley and starting Sarunas and bringing AJ off the bench. And just like Isiah Thomas, I'd ask management to trade Tinsley (or send JO to do it :devil:).

I'd give Sarunas my full confidence and live with the weaknesses to get a winning attitude on the floor... not another whining attitude.

-Bball

Evan_The_Dude
03-31-2006, 05:44 AM
I'm very short on time but I've mentioned before that I think Bird already has a new coach lined up. I think he has expressed to RC that he wants to reshape the team & that he wants to gather the talent to play a certain style. I think Carlisle has agreed to step down after the season but the announcment won't be until about a week or two after our final game.

That's exactly what I'm expecting to happen.

Cory
04-01-2006, 02:05 AM
As far as trading Sarunas because he 'doesn't find his place with the other players'....
If we have players having trouble playing with Sarunas then it isn't Sarunas with the problem. We need more players with a will to win and unselfish play. We don't need to be trading the ones we have away just to make some egotistical players feel a little more secure in their role. (if this is what you meant).

You guys should be glad that I'm not the coach because I'd be benching Tinsley and starting Sarunas and bringing AJ off the bench. And just like Isiah Thomas, I'd ask management to trade Tinsley (or send JO to do it :devil:).

I'd give Sarunas my full confidence and live with the weaknesses to get a winning attitude on the floor... not another whining attitude.

-Bball


After J.O. got injured, I would have been playing Sarunas, Granger and Harrison each 30-35 minutes a game. If Rick would have done this, we might just be hitting all cylinders around now.

But Rick doesn't do this. He treats every game like its the 7th game of the finals and doesn't play the players that NEED minutes. In order for us to be as good as we can be, those three players need to be on the court together for extended periods of time. But now its too late.

I'm sick and tired of people saying that Sarunas shouldn't be on the floor because of his defense. First of all, i don't think his defense is any worst than most players on our team. Also, he shows more effort on the court than most. People need to remember that the best nba pacers team that we've seen had Mark Jackson and Chris Mullin in the starting 5. Talk about not being able to play defense, those guys were terrible.

Evan_The_Dude
04-01-2006, 06:50 AM
People need to remember that the best nba pacers team that we've seen had Mark Jackson and Chris Mullin in the starting 5. Talk about not being able to play defense, those guys were terrible.

Yes, Mark Jackson's lack of defense is always forgotten in these conversations. Mullin wasn't a bad defender, he was just slow but made that up with quick hands and good instincts.

The problem with Sarunas is that his decision making isn't quite where Carlisle would like it, and while Tinsley and AJ haven't been to good in that category either, they've been beter than Sarunas. There's nothing wrong with being a rookie point guard and struggling with decision making, almost all of them do in their first year. I know Sarunas will be good.

Mourning
04-01-2006, 07:04 AM
You talk about decision making and put Tinsley above Sarunas? I would have aggreed with you last year and the start of this year, but now? I don't think so. I hate his shot selection since the Philly game.

He had one great game taking just 4 or 5 shots and getting 12 assists. THAT'S the Tinman I want to see. We don't get to see that a lot though.

Regards,

Mourning :cool: