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View Full Version : Carlisle the disciplinarian.....



Peck
03-30-2006, 02:42 AM
Ok, I'm all for it.

What am I talking about???

During the second quarter David Harrison set a moving pick, clearly an offensive foul on him. David, as he is want to do, stood & looked at the ref & then proceded to complain about the call.

In a loud & clear voice that we could hear over Al Alberts headseat you could hear Rick Carlisle yell "SHUT UP"!!! To which David looked stunned then turned around & ran down the court.

David did not get off of the bench in the second half.

I'm a David Harrison fan, but I'm all for it.

I'm all for it as long as this is across the board & everybody is held to the same standard.

No, really, I'm not kidding. I'm not saying that to be a smart @ss or anything. I want Rick to take this team by the horns & smack the crap out of them.

That means the next time he see's Jackson go at a ref. he needs to yell "shut up". He see's J.O. or Tins. or A.J. or anybody he needs to do the same thing.

I'll go one better, Bird & Walsh should not only encourage this & support him they need to call J.O. into the office & lay it on the line with him about this. I'm not picking on J.O. but since he is the team Captain he would be the one to help enforce this amongst the players. Also he would need to set the example & unfortunately over the years he has set the wrong example, however I don't know if he ever had a good example set for him so he probably can't help it.

I don't have much to say about the game because IMO the Pacers are going to finish out the rest of the year seeing where they are with players they think should be out there, not with players who have proven themselves to be out there.

In other words we are trying to fit square pegs into round holes & IMO if it works at all it will be a miracle.

We are the Indy .500% now & I'm just not sure why some of the things are the way they are.

I still hope for the playoffs but I'll be honest I think a trip to the playoffs right now will be just that, a trip to the playoffs nothing more.

There is still some time to turn it around but it is getting less time each & every day.

waterjater
03-30-2006, 03:16 AM
I agree, but frankly, I don't think it is across the board. JO, Jax etc. have never been benched for their whining or outbursts. Nor Tinsley, except for when he was benched two years ago.

water

Unclebuck
03-30-2006, 07:19 AM
I also noticed about 3 minutes into the game last night after a particularly poor defensive effort, J.O. yelled at his teammates, "Come on blue"

Too your point Peck, I don't think Rick can do that nor should he. I've seen players like AJ, Granger, Foster get upset at the refs also. I don't mind Rick telling them to shut up, but he can't take every player out of the game when they complain to a ref.

Harrison is different (and maybe Jax is too) But usually DH has to be taken out, he gets so upset that he cannot continue, his glaring at the refs, is not helping him, in fact I would guess the refs hate DH and that hurts him a lot. What DH does and the manner he does it is the worst thing he can do to the refs. They would react better to him if they he yelled at the refs but DH's glare is a disaster

RWB
03-30-2006, 09:51 AM
No, really, I'm not kidding. I'm not saying that to be a smart @ss or anything. I want Rick to take this team by the horns & smack the crap out of them.



The PAcers need to hire some adults and get this team in order now. If it takes 50 people then do it. The "They are adults so they should get it philosphy is not working". They need to take JO's mentor ad too heart and apply that to this team.

There has been no leadership since the finals team.

MagicRat
03-30-2006, 10:00 AM
From listening to Slick the last several games, I think he's ready to loan Rick his hockey stick.....

Mark: I just can't figure this team out. Can you?

Slick: Yeah, I've got 'em figured out.

Kegboy
03-30-2006, 10:01 AM
I've said that I believe Rick took the Detroit criticism a bit too personally and has been too passive. This year especially, at the beginning of the season he seemed to be walking on egg shells, surely because of Ron and Jack, and Mike being gone. But sometimes you just have to say "screw it." Enough hand holding, it's time to push these guys and see what they're made of.

And for those not seeing the forest for the trees, I'm not talking about benching a guy everytime he gets into it with the refs. This issue is much, much bigger than that.

Will Galen
03-30-2006, 10:02 AM
This teams biggest problem is it's immaturity, and lack of professionalism. Thus it's not fun to watch and it's not a team that is liked.

So it's good to hear Carlisle spoke up, but unless he will jerk everyone up short it won't do any good.

Indyfan
03-30-2006, 10:13 AM
Rick talked about this problem on the last show and he said they are constantly addressing the problem, in the games, before the games, in practice... but also that this is an emotional game and things happen in the heat of the moment, it is difficult to completely get rid of this type of stuff.

As far as disciplining all the guys the same, we have to remember that different players react differently to correction. This is a very volitale group, it must be a nightmare to try and motivate them and yet keep them in check. Rick has to look at the overall picture and do what is going to help us win the most games. That is not easy. If he treated JO, Jax, Tins. like rookies in the way he corrects them, he would lose this team completely. These are men, and they have huge egos, they are not going to respond to being beaten down by their coach. DH is young, and can take this kind of correction, the vets. cannot. As much as we say it should be the same for all, its not and can't be.

I really think Reggies loss has had a much bigger effect on our team then we were ready for. JO tries to be the leader, but he's just not as effective. This is the hand Rick has been dealt, he didn't put this roster together, he has never comlpained about what he has been given and he has tried to coach this dysfunctional team and bring them up a level. I think it is too easy to blame the coach for things that aren't really his fault.

Knucklehead Warrior
03-30-2006, 11:08 AM
If he treated JO, Jax, Tins. like rookies in the way he corrects them, he would lose this team completely. These are men, and they have huge egos, they are not going to respond to being beaten down by their coach. DH is young, and can take this kind of correction, the vets. cannot. As much as we say it should be the same for all, its not and can't be.

I believe you are correct and I agree with you, but what a bunch of crap.
They are men, but they have egos, they can't take criticism. Wow. And that's essentially what's wrong here.

beast23
03-30-2006, 11:55 AM
I think you have to make the players accountable... to a point. I think that it depends on how and when the compaint is made.

How many times through the years have we seen one of our players gripe about a call, not get back on defense, and his man scores at the other end of the court? Or the team scores at the other end of the court because we were short a man and our opponent was able to swing the ball to the open man for the easy shot?

Heck, I think b!tching was a primary component of Jalen Rose's offensive repertoire so that he wouldn't have to expend and precious energy playing defense.

It absolutely p!ssed me off then, and this habit still p!sses me off today.

And, quite frankly, I think that half the time the player is dead wrong in his perception about the call that was made.

So, from my perspective, if a complaint is being made that prevents the player from getting back on defense, then I think that Carlisle should immediately yank the player and slap him with a $500 fine. After all, hasn't the player just engaged in "conduct detrimental to the team"?

As far as I'm concerned, there is one person and one person only who has a right to make an *** out of himself. And that's the coach. When Carlisle sees multiple errors by one official or he sees his players being fouled consistently, then he should address it. Not the players. The only person who should ever be tossed for disputing calls is the coach.

And for what it's worth, I view posing as a similar action. It's meant to taunt the opposing players and/or their fans, and it also involves a lack of focus by the player who is taunting. It can also result in the opposition having a numbers advantage on their offensive end of the floor.

McKeyFan
03-30-2006, 12:09 PM
They are men . . . they can't take criticism.

An oxymoron, IMO.

Suaveness
03-30-2006, 12:13 PM
I'm glad they have egos. I just don't want to see it. Just shut the **** up and play. That's all. You get paid millions of dollars to play games, so just shut the **** up. Seriously. It certainly cannot be hard for 20 and 30 year olds to act mature. It really isn't that hard.

So yes, I am all for Rick yelling. Please, by all means, continue.

McClintic Sphere
03-30-2006, 12:13 PM
I think it was Tom Coughlin who stated that, as a coach, you can start out extremely strict and then ease off over time, but it is very difficult to do it the other way and have players react well to it.

Jermaniac
03-30-2006, 12:25 PM
I wish just one time Rick would tell JO,Jack to shut up, or tell them to sit their *** down on the bench after a T. I still beleive that he gives them more freedom then any of the players on our team.

But telling Stephen Jackson to shut up, would probably result in Jack trying to fight Rick.